Shogi for chess players - How to play and a first grudge match!
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- A video by chess GM Matthew Sadler and WIM Natasha Regan on their latest obsession: the Japanese game of shogi, which was another of the classic games mastered by AlphaZero after just 12 hours of training. Matthew and Natasha explain the rules of shogi and then play a first "grudge match" to demonstrate how the rules work and some basic strategy!
Matthew and Natasha's new book "Game Changer" came out on 20th January 2019 and won the prestigious ECF Book of the Year and the FIDE Book of the Year prizes for 2019! It is available in print and digital versions from these links:
newinchess.com/... (Paperback English edition)
forwardchess.c... (Digital)
www.chessable.... (Digital)
www.amazon.com... (Paperback and Kindle)
www.amazon.de/... (Hardback German edition)
#gamechangerchess
#alphazero
#alphazerostockfish
I am so happy to see chess players trying shogi. Thank you for making this video!! If you need any shogi information, please ask me :)
To become professional it is much more than a simple exam! For males it takes around 20 years of hard work to have a slight chance to become pro (2 people per half year among many strong talented boys; age limit is 26 yrs).
Btw, G*55 was 1 move mate. Also, you can notice, how important it is to build a castle. Sente's (Black's) pieces were far away from the king, so Gote (White) could attack very severely. Really cool video!!!
Hi Shogi Harbour, thanks a lot! Just want to say we are really enjoying your site: really nice games and really great commentary! Thanks a lot and keep those videos coming! Best Wishes, Matthew and Natasha
@@GameChangerChess Thank you! :))
Great stuff, I'm a new Shogi player myself so seeing two players just talk about their thoughts during a game is very helpful. I encourage you to consider making more videos! There is not very much English Shogi content, and this type of Chess player's take on it is very unique.
Thanks a lot, we're definitely planning to do more! By the way, thanks to a comment from another subscriber, we have just discovered Shogi Harbour - ruclips.net/channel/UCRnXG7CkKfEN6IINKcO_uBg - and it's really good! Lots of games played by the strongest women players commentated in very accessible fashion in English: we can really recommend it! Best Wishes, Matthew
@@GameChangerChess +
Just GREAT! Thank you for promoting shogi to the chess world. It is my passion and i always feel like it is underrated. It is such a beautiful game but whenever i suggested it to chess-streamers they just ignored me.
Please make more videos! i would love to support you too. Showing you platforms and play games against you! :)
You have my subscription and like! :3
Thanks very much, really appreciate that! Best Wishes, Matthew
Amazing, thank you for the informative video. A new hobby to get obsessed with!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! Good luck!! Best Wishes, Matthew
Btw, in Japan, even when you get checkmated you have to resign for the game to end (or make an illegal move), but it doesn't automatically stop with a checkmate. That's most likely why this software you're using didn't stop the game when Matthew delivered checkmate. :)
Aaah, yes that makes sense! Indeed, that confused me too on dojo81 when I started on that site!
@@GameChangerChess I would also recommend you try Shogi Quest. It's got an ugly-ish interface, but it's got chess-like time controls without byoyomi, so the games don't last very long and it is less of a commitment to play a few, than on 81dojo. A lot of players there too.
Android: play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fm.wars.shogiquest
iOS: apps.apple.com/us/app/shogi-quest-online/id884971827
It's also possible to play on PC, but they require you to register an account through mobile first, for some reason...
Shogi Quest is actually a free version of Shogi Wars, which is the most popular shogi app in Japan, but there you are limited to 3 games a day if you don't pay a subscription.
Thanks! That's a good tip! Actually, I already got a subscription to Shogi Wars and I've been enjoying playing 10 seconds a move games trying to up my byoyomi skills. Feels a bit like "hooligan shogi" compared to dojo81, but great fun!
@@GameChangerChess Then you're all set up! :) Yes, it feels less serious but that's precisely why it's so popular I believe. Playing on 81dojo can often feel like a chore to me.
Yes I know exactly what you mean! :-)
The ShogiGUI software used in the video is available from shogigui.siganus.com/download.html
. You will probably need to let Google translate the page for you! Once you install it, you need to change the language to English. You can do this via the menu: click on the menu item (T), and then (O) and then click on Language to change to English.
You can download the Gikou engine from github.com/gikou-official/Gikou/releases/tag/v2.0.2
. Unzip the files to a directory, then add the engine from Tools ¦ Engine ¦ Add
Many thanks to the Dutch Shogi Association for these instructions (shogibond.nl/how-to-analyze-your-games-using-a-shogi-engine/
)
great video very helpful, Where do you find this board that you are showing us all this. I would love to have an online practice board for assistance while I read games.
Thanks Dan! The instructions to get ShogiGUI were in the pinned comment under the video: here they are again: "The ShogiGUI software used in the video is available from shogigui.siganus.com/download.html
. You will probably need to let Google translate the page for you! Once you install it, you need to change the language to English. You can do this via the menu: click on the menu item (T), and then (O) and then click on Language to change to English.
You can download the Gikou engine from github.com/gikou-official/Gikou/releases/tag/v2.0.2
. Unzip the files to a directory, then add the engine from Tools ¦ Engine ¦ Add
Many thanks to the Dutch Shogi Association for these instructions (shogibond.nl/how-to-analyze-your-games-using-a-shogi-engine/
)"
Great video!
Thanks! Glad you liked it! Best Wishes, Matthew
I still haven't had time to watch this excellent video in it's entirety, but I've now looked at most of it, and a few comments seem in order.
The presenters score points *big-time*, right from the start by using Shogi pieces rather than the effete bastardised pieces (called Westernised or Internationalised by some) which are popular with folks who are too lazy to learn the (Chinese?) kanji used on Shogi pieces!
I was a little apprehensive when I saw that the ShogiGUI board had been set up 'rotated' while the moves of the pieces were being explained (this moves the origin of the notation system to lower left, rather than upper right as is usual in Shogi), but when the demonstration game was started, the board was rotated to its 'correct' orientation
The discussion between the two players whilst the game is in progress is interesting, informative and well-structured (though informal). All extremely helpful for a novice player!
The video ends with the statement of the intention to produce more such videos (yes please!), and a visual link to Hidetch's Shogi videos.
Good stuff - been needed for a looooooooong time!
The only down-side is that the volume is rather low (I listened with the volume turned up to full, via headphones in a public library), but this seems to be a problem with very many RUclips videos.
RJH
Thanks very much for your comments! We'll take a look at the volume issue - we probably need to set the base volume we record at a little higher. Thanks a lot, really encouraging! Best Wishes, Matthew
My pleasure! I've been playing Shogi since ~1966, and it's always been a struggle to interest 'Westerners' in the game - the kanji on the pieces usually being presented as the major obstacle to learning the game (which I believe to be complete nonsense). Using real Shogi pieces in the video is a major plus and a de-bunking of that ridiculous notion. The video, including as it does 'casual' mention of many Shogi terms and strategies is a great 'de-mystification' of what is sometimes presented as an arcane (which it possibly is) and inaccessible (it isn't) game.
What I didn't say, and perhaps should have, is that the video should be very useful for Shogi novices who happen *not* to already be players of International Chess.
The video will certainly be flagged up in the next update to my own very modest 'Introduction to Shogi' which is available from Eric Cheymol's web site (eric.macshogi.com/), or from www.dropbox.com/home/SHOGI. mo
I do hope you'll be able to find time to produce more such videos, perhaps exploring in more detail some of the strategies and techniques you mentioned in the present production.
RJH
Hi Roger, thanks! We'll definitely think about doing some more videos: we weren't sure how people would react, but it's all been really nice and positive so very encouraging to do more! Best Wishes, Matthew
Final comment - I first saw the video flagged on an Internet Shogi forum (Reddit). I've now flagged it on three others (SHOGI-L, BoardGameGeek and 81Dojo), so maybe you'll see your hit-rate rise a little...
We have seen a lot more views indeed, so thanks a lot! Best Wishes, Matthew
Have you played other games of shogi since then?
Quite a few tournaments but not like this against each other! Best Wishes, Matthew
Problem is she didn't use the rook. She should of used static rook
So at 34:00 would Natasha dropping a silver on 3iii been an effective move? I am new and may be missing something.
+
Yes I think that would have been better, keeping an extra defensive piece!
@@GameChangerChess I think he meant S*33, and not S*77 as I suppose you understood. :) Of course, dropping the Silver to 33 is no good as the Knight from 21 would just take it and if Sente retakes with her Knight, the Bishop would recapture with the same threat still present, but with an extra Silver in hand for Gote.
And also, if S*77, then Matthew would have N85 attacking that silver, so that would also not make much difference. In fact, at that point, Natasha is already lost. Her biggest mistake was the P67 push at 26:40 and also the fact that she then decided to advance and exchange her defensive Silver, while already having an incomplete castle with the Gold on 49 doing nothing.
This variant is amazing indeed. But I will prefer crazyhouse and shogun variant on pychess server for me.
my brain is on chess mode
I put the bishop in front of a pawn a put check on my opponent
my oponent captures my bishop with his pawn
me: Damm brain shift your pawn logic
Takes a bit of getting used to but after a while you don't get confused any more! I play chess and shogi every day now and (touch wood) I don't make any chess-moves-in-shogi blunders any more! Best Wishes, Matthew
@@GameChangerChess yeah I justo started playing shogi today but I play chess since I was a kid. I'm not a pro but i'm a decent player
A reminder: Sente, the one who starts first is "black", not "white".
Oh good Lord, did we say that wrong in the video? Best Wishes, Matthew