Are You Carried By Your Character In Fighting Games?
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- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- The topic of being carried by your character has been going on for years in fighting games. Today we explore that topic using mostly Tekken 8 but some other games from the past as well. I give my take on what a carried player really is. Let me know what you think in the comments section below.
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Victor carries people like a true scrub lord. He's literally designed to be an easy to win character
I play him only because of the many cosplay costumes for him 😐
@@ExieusedOverWriteNot to be that guy, but I don't think what you said makes OP's comment wrong.
I genuinely agree. I fought a Victor 2 ranks above me yesterday and he was spamming the busted moves yadayada but it was so annoying how easy it was and how little it took to beat me. I was wondering if maybe I should just start playing Victor like an absolute scrub and start spamming knowledge checks but thats not my style.
@@strayzzfaxz6740 Knowledge checks are easy to counter though. Once you learn handling those 2-3 moves, it will be more easy. Victor may be easier to play on a certain level, but against a solid defense you need to play just as many mind games if not more as his string are all super punishable and the other moves are stepable.
I think where most of the hate is coming from that ha makes of lot of people hesitate because the moves are a bit scary… but once you get used them the matchup becomes pretty manageable IMO.
@@robotunikornis One of my friends said "start sidestepping" and the Victor's I fight now miss 70% of their attacks like EXPULSION. You are totally right.
The real question is are you carried by tekken 8? The amount of opponents I face who can’t do anything after they have spent heat is mind boggling.
Very good question. The ceiling has certainly been lowered from 7, but then I guess the 6 players could say that to 7 and the 5 players to 6.
Yeah but is also interesting the amount of opponents I face in emporer ranks who play top tier characters and it's like free desert when you find out they have no defense whatsoever
The tracking with all the strings carries a lot of people. Tekken 7 was also bad with this but with the added mechanics it just makes it 10 times worse. I'll agree with you that it's the game overall carrying a lot of people.
Considering both players have heat this dosent really mean anything, it will just come back to which character has the better heat and thus which character is better again. And many people would argue that heat actually adds complexity to the game making it harder not easier.
I reach fujin with minimum use of heat, heat is broken i agree with you but ppl will still lose with heat the ppl who are actually good at the game will deal with heat like it was a Tuesday
In Mike's defense, I am positive that most people would rather fight Feng than a brain-dead Victor, Alisa, Hwoarang, or Dragunov.
NOT TRUE
Agreed
As a Kazuya main, someone complained that doing wavus and perfect electrics (just to launch anyone btw...) was being carried.
I want whatever they are smoking
Must have gotten it deep in the depths of Dam.
Yeah, because those idiots think perfect execution, timing, and implementation just happen magically without requiring countless hours of practice. If anything, EWGF is a troll move because it gatekeeps most players from playing Mishima. Getting rewarded for high execution is the antithesis of being carried.
😢 I still can't do either consistently. I made it to mighty ruler hoping to get Tekken King though.
And I heard they Nerfed Kazuya too so wtf
@@thefirstprime0124 at this point why even play kazuya. game don't wants kazuya player to win
For me, being carried means you get to make more mistakes as a player that go unpunished due to how the character works. This could be moves like Azucena's old WR3,2, where it was basically unpunishable, Dragunov's +7 hatchet that didn't stagger on block. Many other things. If a character is so good you get to make all kinds of mistakes and the character covers for you, you are carried. You can find this out by picking a worse character, or more fundamental character. You may find your tendencies during play start getting punished much worse.
yea pre nerfs Drag and Azu were so stupid like u could barely get your turn back unless u were the one consistently rushing them down
Bro people still complain Azucena carrys. That was like the ONLY move of hers that was stupid. What are your opinions on her now?
As someone who also plays Smash, I would agree with you. I had an acquaintance that was a Bowser main. Now, obviously, being a huge character, Bowser is combo food. The thing about him though is that he is the heaviest character in the game making him hard to knock out, he's REALLY fast, extremely powerful, has sword character range and a decent recovery. Also has super armor by just existing that can cancel out quite a few attacks. The problem with this acquaintance using Bowser is that it made him play stupid. He made all kinds of mistakes because he didn't have fundamental knowledge. One of my mains is Ganondorf, literally the worst character in the game. But since I had better fundamentals, I would almost always beat him. One day, I picked Bowser against him and absolutely destroyed him. I only lost a stock because I got greedy and killed myself. That was me playing stupid because I could. Bowser enables that. A lot of people have either poor fundamentals (I'm guilty of this in Tekken) or focus so much on one thing, that when they can't do that thing, they crumble. Can't tell you how my people I play in tekke who have all kinds of optimal combos but have zero defense.
@@bilbo_gamez6195I think the only way Azucena carries is by virtue of saving a player's stamina. She's so easy to use even a toddler could. But that's just about it.
@@bilbo_gamez6195 Now she is a middle of the road character with some average moves and a few good ones.
one of the more subtle feng downplays in a while
😂😂😂
Harada's main that should tell you enough how carried with Feng you are :D
@@MilosJsWizard he's gonna carry me right over to Marduk where I'm really gonna upset people 😁
@@RealMikeHollow Well as long as you are having fun
When I lose to crayon eating spam? Carried.
When I win with crayon eating spam? Pure skill GG ez no re learn the matchup
🫡
My only issue wing feng is he gets to pop heat smash and get a free “fawk you and your neutral ima hit you with a fullscreen homing stomp and be +8 for free”🤦♂️.
There’s a few moves that get a bit too much reward for how simple they are to use, especially in heat!
That move is legitimately so stupid it needs to be addressed like asap
@@omarmks6670 even at tournaments I see pro players running away from feng as soon as he pops heat just to avoid that move
I left heat outta this video because everyone's heat is ridiculous, but I'll admit, Fengs is particularly ridiculous 😂
You cant move at all in heat against some characters
I still think Akuma carried some players despite his execution. He had so many broken stuff that made the execution barrier seem like not a big deal.
Carried to what rank exactly?
Maybe once you are able to actually use him, then things get flipped on their head but you're suffering on the lead up 😂
Akuma was the hardest character to learn in tekken 7 but super op
@Frizzy125 He is the hardest character at higher levels for sure.
@@Frizzy125 Even harder was for the person who was facing it
As a Shaheen main, He was definitely considered boring in 7 and unimpressive in 8 now AK won a tourney with him now it's an influx of Shaheens in rank all of a sudden...
He’s way deeper in t8 what are you even talking about
@@KeithKillingly Bro ngl you're interpreting what I said in the wrong way.
I’ve been seeing a lot of Nina’s in lower ranks due to Arslan Ash
@@JuJusCornerr The Bandwagon Nina "mains" I played her throughout the life cycle of Tekken but never played her at a high level because Miguel appealed more to me. Then had to drop him regrettably in favor of Shaheen because he wasn't revealed (yet?) I will halfheartedly drop all mains for Miguel.
@@PainMakesYouFeelBetter I initially got Tekken 7 due to Lidia so I can’t wait for that Tekken talk where we see more gameplay. I’ve kinda just been using all the characters I find that looks cool lol
I think you can be carried, but it can only take you up to a certain point. After that, you have to actually learn to play the game or if anything, the match up.
And then there are characters who are extremely strong, but have extremely high execution, and I don't really think that means that character is carried.
true
The Tekken scrubs prayer:
If thou hast beaten me in battle thou ist a carried scrub
If I have bested ye, I am skillful Tekken lord and ye is still scrub
GG ez amen🙏
As a Lars player, I'll say that I'm somewhat carried. I know that I can't just mash flippy whippy zippy shit all the time. I have to learn my frame traps and know if my opponent is gonna respect my frames or not. And I go from there. Sorta learning that now as I'm just now hitting Garyu.
Exactly, it's kinda annoying when people just assume that you can mash stances and win when all that does is get you killed
@@nerooyeye2196 You'd think Victor's b1 into Perfumer was plus with the amount of times people let me go into that shit.
I spend entire rounds just conditioning, poking and stance canceling. If anything as you increase rank using lars actually gets harder and his flaws become more apparent. Can be extremely rewarding of course, just requires more work as you are basically creating a mixup for the mixup lol. I can see people dropping lars because of that.
@@nerooyeye2196yea i get really annoyed seeing mf’s saying all i need to do is go into stance and I’m invincible. Literally just crouch block and you’ll do fine against Lars. Or just guess the 50/50 right.
I'm a tekkin king and I'm ngl they do work but you have to know when to use them but when you learn that lars is a problem and block punish
Yeah Im a mishsima player and I'd have to agree Akuma was probably the most difficult in terms of execution. Yeah bro you said it perfectly about what being carried is.
I like your takes on these kinds of things very nuanced and very realistic. If I have understood you correctly to be carried your character needs to be 2 things, Strong AND Cognitively Easy. Unfamiliarity with a character can also carry but that is more of a skill issue/knowledge check topic IMO. Very well said.
Thank you, sir ☝🏾
I will say this. The sheer amount of players that are in the high ranks who have very low defense stats shock me. I know those stats don’t mean anything, but to have defense in the 30s mean you literally don’t block anything or break any grabs.
I’m saying that means u are getting CH TOO often 😭😭
I honestly have to second this. Just a Fujin player that got demoted to BR, but you know I still try to learn each match-up because each match-up is new, but getting your ass whooped by someone with defense in the 30's - 40's while having my defense in the 55 almost hitting 60 just baffles me.
As a feng im carried dont let him lie to you boys
Leave. You're ruining everything!
😭😭
As someone who has been exclusively using Nina for a few years (even though I stopped playing T7 in 2021) I agree with pretty much everything you said. She is also a good example because at high level she is very dependent on execution. Jodd himself said he thinks she’s not S tier because you have to constantly do everything right or you lose. She’s also carried because no one uses her. I’ve maybe ran into 4 other Ninas in the last 75 matches I’ve played. However, she is absolutely insane if you know what you are doing.
I’m just now breaking into orange ranks because I neglected ranked matches, but I’d say Drag, Reina, Jun, Jin, and objectively Lilli are characters that easily carry people. Also Alisa.
I'm an Azucena and Paul main in Tekken 8. Azucena definitely got nerfed but she's so fun that I'm gonna play her regardless if she's bottom or top tier.
honest Paul main 🫸🫷
Knee switched from Wei to Bryan, yet some say Bryan is the hardest to use (cap imo). I think they’re weren’t a lot of Wei’s because Jin is ridiculous.
For content creators saying “victor isn’t all that,” is on one, farzeen has been running through the competition with him. Scrubs and pro players are eating well at the victor table.
bryan isnt really hard execution wise outside of taunt. Its just that the gameplan is advance, he revolves around counterhits and good players dont just mash you have to condition the fuck out of them to get a single counterhit launch. In exchange of having fucked up counterhit utility, he doesnt have mix in the traditional sense of knockdown low, its just hatchet and pokes.
Playing Steve has really showed me who’s carried having to work 10x as hard to get the same damage as a Eddy, Feng, Victor etc is brutal the evasion moves, power crushes , heat , WACKY tracking just gives people free wins on me sometimes getting hit once and being in the air for the whole round for one mistake just sucks when you know they are only using 1-2 buttons and tilts people trying to learn but get cooked by meta picks obsessed w wins
Applies only if you’re below Tekken Emperor Rank:
You play kazuya, Devil jin, Bryan, or Steve? You’re not carried at all. You’re probably struggling a lot in this game. You play literally ANYONE else? You’re carried on some level, and that level varies. Raven players are only carried by lack of matchup knowledge by others, for example. Victor players are carried by the character himself.
Objectively speaking I think this is true. If we are being unbias those are the 4 characters that have distinct design problems and execution barriers that are so prevalent it might as well exclude them from the carried category.
@@DjGaiden exactly. We can break it down for those who may not get why this is:
Steve has no 15f standing launcher, sub par heat, below average combo damage, and a lack of pressure tools to open up opponents, Plus an execution barrier. Not to mention he’s not even the best in his own archetype. He’s a CH character, but king and Lee both have superior counter hit tools to Steve. You’re often safe when running offence, but if your opponent chooses not to press, you don’t have much to open them up. The lack of decent punishment in such an aggressive game really hurts Steve, and he’s the only one that has this issue really.
Bryan has the 14f jet upper from standing, and excellent ws punishment, but he’s extremely execution heavy, has no good lows to scare the opponent into ducking, which is Not great design for Tekken 8. He has Great Wall damage and carry. But In order to actually get the launch, Bryan needs to straight up out mind-game and out play his opponent. Bryan players Are undoubtedly working their fucking ASSES off and yielding little results for their troubles. I can’t tell you how many Bryan’s I’ve fought. But red rank Bryan’s feel like they should be blue. Purple and blue rank Bryan’s feel like Tekken kings. Gold rank Bryan’s feel like gods of destructions. And GoD Bryan’s feel like they should be winning evo every year. The rank of the Bryan player is often about 4-5 ranks lower than that player seems to deserve. Never fails. Bryan players Are amazing. But Bryan is pretty low tier in this insanely oppressive game.
Devil jin has insane execution requirements with electric, iws2 being his main 50/50 mid (very hard to master), and iws3 being implemented more in combos now. He has a terrible jab hit box, and low combo damage. His combos are consistent even if you’re way off axis, but they’re not the easiest to pull off. With his heat smash being nerfed, there’s a good argument to be made that devil jin is bottom tier.
And finally poor kazuya. The dude with THE MOST inconsistent hit boxes in the entire game, bar none. And they’re issues with his key tools! Standing 3, ws1, df1, Jab (worst jab in the game), b2, heat burst, and heaven’s gate extension all whiff regularly if you’re only slightly off axis. Couple that with the fact that he’s the hardest character in the game to pilot due to insanely high execution demand on top of shit combo damage, and you have the worst character in the game right now.
Makes me feel better as it's my first tekken and I main DVJ
@@The_Buff_Guy Not only do I agree, but I just recognized who you are lol! Love the videos. I am listening to the latest one now on my drive.
@@DjGaiden hey, much love bro! Hope the video helps out in some way 🤘🖤
All steve fox does for me is carry me back to yellow ranks 😂
Great video, As a Kazuya main I just have to say I see a lot of people saying characters carry and I even say it myself, but it is still up to you the individual to learn the matchup and recognize the mistakes your opponent is making and capitalize. I think more often than not skill outweighs strength.
Interesting take. I find myself usually picking the rare pokemons in fighting games. The characters that nobody picks and I absolutely abuse the lack of matchup knowledge to get free Ws. I picked Zafina because of how rare she is but she was trash so I was still working hard for my wins. But now since the buffs, she's an absolute W printing machine and I definitely feel carried at times.
I'm just glad that no one is coming after my boy Dragunov anymore. He's harder now but I'm still killing it.
I personally think Drag is still the best character in the game 👀
In my mind carried is talking about the ratio of effort/knowledge to results. A character that can do a lot without needing to consider what you or your opponent is doing is what makes a character carried.
Even relatively honest characters can be considered “carried” depending on how they are played. T8 Law, for example, is not the most egregious character but relying on the slide and not much else is being carried by Law.
Ultimately it boils down to how difficult the counter play is compared to how difficult it is to do the strategy. At least at the level of play most people will see in T8.
I can admit im somewhat carried by yoshi. Its his nature for you to be confused by him.
i made this comment before watching all the way through and after finishing the vid ur absolutely right, and 100% agree and u said exactly what ive been trying to tell ppl for so long and explain much better than I great vid. playing bryan in tekken 8 is like trying to play hard characters in t7 such as bryan jin kaz and steve, in a tekken game full of kunimitsus, noctis, akumas , negan and lei players.... imagine playing tekken 7 as bryan or kaz and every other character is fucking akuma, kunimitsu or negan....that's what its like playing bryan in t8, i feel knee was trying to prove a point by playing bryan in combo breaker, knee who is arguably the greatest tekken player of all time got absolutely bodied by a victor player who ive personally never even seen before until tekken 8, but apparently the guy was an akuma main in t7...explains a lot. so yeah in my opinion i think most tekken 8 players especially newcomers are indeed carried. for anyone thats says some shit like "just adapt bro" ur very clearly a vicotr or azu main, or u play alisa, the amount ppl i ve seen at tekken god rank that plays these characters have 0 fucking fundamentals and are actually straight ass, but im a bryan main wtf am i supposed to do against someone who is constantly plus frames i dont have panic button like steves back 1, and has fucking SAFE MID POWER CRUSH HEAT ENGAGER like honestly wtf even is that?
ey man i missed these kinds of videos! i agree with your points. I'd add that carried characters are very subjective as well. VS myself for example, every hwoarang and "ducked playing" characters (zafina, lars, xiaoyu) are carried cause im bad at these matchups. but the execution part is HUGE and very underrated. love the video
Thank you, bro ☝🏾
From the wise word of a King "My character doesn't carry me. My character carries and throws them!" 🐯👑
You may be missing an important point: back in T7 Harada said nobody plays Feng because he's ugly. Players can be shallow and fickle. Just look at the difference in player numbers between Bob and Slim Bob when both are available. Plus, some people just don't like playing a character that they think is overclocked and nobody will respect them for choosing. To some, winning with Feng could be considered a hollow victory.
I see what you did there, sir (well done). I think Harada was joking though. Fengs not that clapped 😂
@@RealMikeHollownah that mf is 27 looking like he is 40 LOOK AT HIM 😭😭😭 even kazuya be lookin younger than him at times
Lars,Jun,Hwoarang,Alisa,Zafina and bears will carry you easy to at least blue ranks. Hwoarang always gave me hell so I labbed him and released he has a lot of holes in his offense and he’s very linear.
Bruh hwoarang is basically dead vs low crouch jab lol
@@yungslack7311spammy ones yeah. But he also has good punishes, mixups and good throw game. If he blocks a low you get punished with tsunami kicks which has huge damage for frames.
@@yungslack7311 I’ve came to released too😭😭
Zafina ? Lmao are you high ?
@EggZackLeeee She's knowledge check the character. Nobody knows the matchup and nobody cares to learn it.
This is an interesting discussion and I kind of agree with you. Consistency and ease of use will always be a higher priority than raw power for most players, that's why there still aren't many Yoshimitsu players in tournaments, even though he is very strong in this game. He's just too much work considering the other optioms you have.
Launcher ….TIO…heat dash …TIO … your health near gone . Honorable mentions fast as hell sweep
Hey hey hey, I'll have none of this slander (you're spot on).
@@RealMikeHollow 🤣
Just btw tioh is -19
I think this question warrants a very nuanced answer and I'm very happy with how in-depth you went in this video. However, I would also like to say, that your character choice might be very important, but I would also bring up the point of player skillsets. What I mean by that is, regardless of who you play and how strong they are, you should never stop working on your skills as a player, like movement, spacing, timing your attacks, how to apply pressure, using grabs (which are really strong in this game and it reminds me of DOA in many ways) proficently.
I play Reina and don't care if people think I'm carried or not. I chose her because I like how she looks, how she plays and I think the voice actress absolutely killed it in her role. And I'm constantly working on stuff (which partly is because I'm still quite bad at the game admittedly), so my opinion is that you shouldn't worry too much about being carried or not by your character. Worry about actually being good at the game fundementally.
I think Being carried by the character is a complex topic. For me,the criteria is if you can get free stuff and be safe,if it allows you to discombobulate and then 50/50, or they just take their turn even if they should be neg or disadvantaged. I take Lars as one that is being carried. I used him the other day and im like goddamn this is easy to do shit. I don’t know how to play him. Another i would definitely say is Eddy,Reina and Victor
No one's using Feng 'cuz it's boring as hell and why would you play a character that's boring as hell that isn't Drag or Victor with their brainless WR plus frames that lead to 50/50s and/or frametraps?
It's why we see hardly any Leroy players or Shaheen players despite both being incredibly strong. Feng isn't Zafina, he's not that complicated and frankly after the buffs to Leroy and Zafina they're solid enough to consider being called top tier. Feng is as pick up and play as Leo, just not as pick up and play as Drag/Victor, you need less tools on Drag/Victor to succeed at low to mid ranks than you do on Feng, when you're talking about playing them at high level of course Feng gets more complicated, so does Drag, Jin and even someone as simple as Asuka.
Edit: Also we don't see Akuma because he's mechanically complex on top of having resources to manage and is a specialist character. No one has a pocket Akuma, Akuma players play Akuma and that's about it. You can play a Mishima and still also play something like Steve or Hwo, but Akuma much like Raven in T8 have such a vastly different set of tools from the rest of the cast that it makes it difficult to move from them to another character.
Your character carried you is something losers say, end of discussion.
As a Kuma player I'm absolutely not going to deny I'm carried, I mean one swing can knock off the same amount as a 6 string combo from Reina
I hate fighting the bears, but at the same time I don't consider them carried. They already have really bad defense in a game that has limited defensive options, so it's natural that they hit hard. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Rangchu said that he only worried about blocking and didn't bother with side-stepping because their side steps were the worst in the game.
Lars being called Carried is funny tho, cuz if you took 15 minutes to look into his pros vs cons youre going to find very quickly youve been clowned on a Low Tier.
I disagree cos I play Lars when I'm playing offline with friends so I'm very well aware of what he's capable of. Lars is not one of those characters you can make an assessment with on paper. When you apply him correctly in battle, he can create a lot of noise on screen and force you into high damage situations.
Tekken 8 is NOT tekken... Why is there chipdamage / damage on block? Is it to make the game easier and noob friendly? YES.. All you have yo do now is get in heat and spam your brain out. Even when everything is blocked, your hp goes from 100 to 50... All you need now is just one LUCKY parry/punish and it's over..
I hope the 1.05 patch will reward defending players more..
I brought this up during the last stream. Dragunov is my favorite character. Just the combination of that face and combat sambo. I love the dude. After seeing that one guy (sorry I can't remember his name) go alpha killer with Raven, I kind of want to go back to back to Raven, myself. Plus I've got several other characters I can play. After seeing Arslan Ash own with Nina, I definitely want to check her out a gain. She was one of my original T3 mains.
It was Fallxn, and yeah, his Raven is pretty insane. He's made everyone want to pick him up 😂
I play Claudio and for the most part I feel like he is a fairly honest character, I recently got to blue ranks and it feels like fulfilling atm. I also play Lili and I don’t know if she would qualify as being completely carried but she def has more tools compared to Claudio such as her sidestep and mixup capability.
you’re one of the rare claudio players i never see him
I main Reina, but I like playing Victor too. At least trying to learn so I’m not playing like a a brain dead moron. The amount of skill I need to win a match with Reina compared to Victor is so astronically higher that these feel like characters in different games. It’s crazy.
Really enjoyed this take. Ive been playing LILI since Tekken Revolution on the PS3 and have never looked back. Then Sebastian and LILI in TTT2. Im so loyal to her and Sebastian I refuse to change. But in T8 I feel like plays who clearly have less skill than me are getting carried by heat and im guessing half the time. Defence used to be my strong point and now its like WTF how can I play my game if side stepping and standing blocks dont work
People who play my character are the most honest players in the world and work 1000x more than everyone else. Others are carried.
I don’t see too many Lars players and whenever I do it’s always an easy win and I play Lars I don’t think Lars carry the scrubs but carrys good tekken players
Tekken 8 carries people. period. The amount of people I've seen from Tekken 7 in my region and on youtube who were stuck in green/yellow for years now (with less than 30 hours) are in Red/Violet ranks is insane.
shoutout to my fellow Steve mains. yall know what’s up. (stuck at Bussin atm)
One should also consider that characters whos gameplan is enforsing 50/50 over and over can somewhat allow you to beat stronger players. Just because of nature of guessing game, you cant guess them all
Very true. Mix up characters sometimes let you into situations a neutral based character couldn't.
Depends on the 50/50 tbh like kazuyas for example is pretty high risk and high reward especially if u do WS2 instead of ff3 yes doing a 50/50 over and over can allow you way more advantages than other characters and make you even beat better players but if it’s pretty much you’re holy grail I say keep it how it is unless u adjust other things about said character kazuyas takes a huge risk doing his 50/50 if he lands it great he can keep doing it or get a combo if he doesn’t he gets launched and probably loses like 40% or more of his health in a combo (this can vary greatly depending on certain things)
Did you beat me? If the answer is yes then you're carried.
That's the only right answer.
,,Feng is not triangle, square, triangle, square". Db3 into FC d4,1 into db3 into...join the chat. But like Murray say ,,why you not block that?"
Short answer: yes, most of these people are carried. It wouldn’t even be a problem if everyone didn’t deny it. Like yes you play one of the top 10 chars you are carried. That’s it….Take your unga bunga wins and no I dont want to rematch you win or lose. I’ll run into another one of you next match anyways 😂🤣
No mention of my main yoshi at all. Based video.
Carried to me is a strong character with a simple but flexible gameplan and low execution barrier. I’ve noticed these characters tend to top the tournament win charts more due to the low mental stack on the character more so than them just being that strong. It’s a lot easier to win consistently when you can lose out on a damage but have a consistent/easier way to punish or set up your opponent and don’t have to worry about hitting frame perfect punishes/combos to get equivalent or more damage. In sf6 Ken and Jp were considered the best characters in the game but it was Luke that was winning tournaments cus Jp and Ken had to work a lot harder to get their oppressive stuff going and harder max damage execution while Luke would have more flexibility to deal with situations and much easier combos to pull off while still doing decent damage
The thing about opponent knowing the character match up is so true and overlooked. I'm a Feng main but I like to play other characters from time to time. Recently I played Leroy before patch, even though considered to be the worst character in the roster I took him to fujin with so much more ease than Feng. These days I play shaheen and even though I played him for a total of like 3 days, I manage to fool people much so much, even in higher ranks than where I'm supposed to be like kishin or bushin. Cause no one play them. Shaheen especially is considered to be a hardcore fundamental character, but I don't find him harder to play than Feng for fooling people, and I think that's saying a lot.
Guile in SF6 fits your criteria very well. Most players can’t deal with his very simple game plan that any play could execute. Especially with modern controls. He’s easy to play, does big damage, has favorable MUs against most of the roster, etc.
I think that on average players end up in the rank that is a reflection of their skill and/or effort. Some characters get you to that rank faster, but overall the end result will most likely be the same.
Unless there is something like ZeroMayCry or anything involving Vergil in UMVC3 , I think character-balance is pretty well done.
I have to disagree with you. I’m also a Jin main yes they dumbed Jin down significantly his ff2 is tricky to evade and his combos are overall easy I’m around supreme in 8 and I maxed out at tgp in 7. In my opinion feng is easier than Jin I think a lot of people play Jin because he is more appealing that feng. The only thing that has a bit of difficulty with feng is his cd into ws moves and his delayed ff4 3 in combos. I do also agree that a lot of players have been popping up out of nowhere in terms of Jin draganouv and Lars main. Spaming ff2 and 2 will win games but eventually it will hit a point where it won’t work. A lot of Jin’s were in combo breaker but none made it to top 8.
Listen, people who complain are trash. They rather bring someone else down then get their own skill up. Completely unworthy of communicating with.
I’ll admit, I main Lars cause he compensates for a decent amount of my weaknesses (movement specifically) and I’m on the verge of Tekken King now. I’m picking up others to work on my weak point but it’s okay to have a slight crutch, it’s normal to pick someone that helps you play your best Tekken possible.,
Scrub
You should make videos about one piece. Love to hear your opinions on one piece content in particularly the live action.
Haha that might be a good idea. Could talk about One Piece for hours.
ESSAY INCOMING
The Reina comments are interesting to me. If it’s not obvious, I am a Reina main. Idrc that people say I’m carried I just don’t think it’s true. I literally just play her while i wait for Armor King because she’s attractive and her personality is cool to me
There’s this idea that she is 1. The best/one of the best characters in the game (I agree) and 2. She’s the easiest/most braindead character.
Yet she has the absolute lowest win rate in low ranks and in all ranks combined she’s still pretty low but not dead last. She also doesn’t win tournaments either; most Reina players I see swap off her in top 16 or top 8.
How can someone simultaneously be the easiest character and the best character but still lose. Character usage can’t be the reason because characters that are used more than her win more.
In my opinion Reina is amazing and is definitely a top tier character. Where I disagree is with the whole “she’s braindead easy” argument. If that was true, her performance would be flipped. She does well in high ranks because it takes a good pilot to use her effectively. Even though Reina’s switch off in top 16s or just lose, she still makes it pretty often because she’s good. Low rank Reina players who mash get cooked because you won’t win like that with her. I think people are just too lazy to learn the matchup so they cope by saying she’s braindead despite ever trying her out themselves.
Btw I play Yoshimitsu, Alisa, and Xiaoyu as well. All three of them are much more braindead to me, I honestly think Yoshimitsu is too brain dead now and he’s my 2nd favorite Tekken character ever. Maybe I just suck with Reina.
Armor King please come back I miss you
I think a lot of people don't really utilize Reina's kit as well as they should and try to play her just like a 1 to 1 Mishima. But she's amazing once you start delving into the rest of her abilities. But kinda like with Lars, she's a high risk, high reward character IMO.
King and Dragunov players are being carried af
Reyna is definitely A harder character. Fang is pretty much has an option for everything. Good lowes, good mids, pretty much good everything. She's pretty.
Much the same way you have to use all of her tools. Are plus 14 and up The tools are just none apparable
That stuff might work with her at low ranks. But pretty much purple and up. Most people should know the match up. Sorry about the misspelling in the previous message Plus the execution difference between fang and akuma are like tremendous but that's something you had to sacrifice because of how strong he was took a lot of dedication with the character
Thanks for this video it made me comfortable ❤️ im alisa main because i love this character and i found her easy to play as a someone who is new to tekken but after hearing all people who is really hating her because she is a “carried” character in low/mid ranks so i said to myself im gonna be a lili main after alisa because i want to play a character that is not carried and requires a “skill” as some people say👍 garyu ranked alisa main
Thank you for watching and always remember to play whoever makes you the most happy. Games should always be about fun first and foremost ☝🏾
I think u kinda touched on it but may have overlooked the “cool and fun” factor when it comes to carrying. Regardless of what char is strong or easy or whatever, we all know having fun takes precedence for most of us with no real stake in the game unlike the pros. For us a char can be everything under the sun but if they aren’t fun then ppl will be hesitant to play them. The truth, I feel, is that all chars carry in some way by way of their specialization. For example: As a Julia main I know that I will never have as tough a time getting in from mid or close range thx to Party Crasher, which is integral to her kit, her specialty as some would say. But against someone who’s specialty is evasion like Ling or even Akuma with demon flip, the thing that’s been “carrying” me by way of circumnavigating an issue, becomes a non factor, forcing me to adapt. But that’s the beauty of adversarial atmospheres, watching the mindgame evolve. In conclusion tho I think it’s safe to say tht we all getting carried to some degree, especially in T8 but I think the better question is what exactly the carrying is helping some of us avoid having to learn/allowing us to do that we might not be able to accomplish otherwise.
I too want a safe launching Mid that I mix with a low that loops into the same situation.
Kazuya is not carried, in high ranks. You can get Migty Rule with 3 moves, easily.
CASUAL FRAMEWHISPERER APPEARANCE
Bros Alisa gave me PTSD.
@@RealMikeHollow seemed a lil rusty to me tbh :D
this is crazy, guy started the video by saying “people are saying feng is carrying me, that i’m being carried by feng. anyways this is why Akuma is and isn’t broken” then goes further by saying “what does it even mean to be carried? my opinion differs from yours probably” changed the video in its entirety 💀
Yeah, that sure is "crazy" 🧐
It's also a case of matchup based on the character you play as
Specific characters like Kazuya, while they have a lot of potential, the work required to get the best out of him is quite extensive when he faces characters that are both strong and have a lot of tools at their disposal while Kazuya is still a fundamentals based character. Some might consider this a controversial opinion but even a character like Paul, while he can hit like a truck he really doesn't have anything that's particularly on the level of stronger characters due to his rather basic tools (especially when some of his best tools in 7 got hard shafted in 8 and odd hitbox issues pointed out by some players). It's almost hilarious to see even Yoshimitsu being considered better than the likes of these two.
There needs to be a bit of reworking done IMO, just to level everything out
used to think that Raven was OP and carrying me, but since getting through the red ranks i’m not so sure anymore
Not many people know how to fight raven
You got carried through the red ranks and now are having to learn. You are the definition of someone who was carried 😂😂😂😂😂
@@buckbreaker5185 nah doesn’t seem like he’s really that strong of a character. all good though, i do have to learn the game so im willing to take some L’s to get there
I do agree, I play Fukua in Skullgirls and she's probably one of the rarest characters you can fight online cause she's a joke character and she is low effort, she has one of the highest meter building rates if not the highest, the month I picked her up I was beating up people and climbing the leaderboards like crazy and even to this day I still beat people senseless. If your character requires less effort to do a lot then you're carried, there's nothing to be ashamed about just ask if they're jealous or not.😂
I play Reina. Idk if she’s op or not, but she’s fun.
I main Reina and I won't downplay how strong she is, but I am not going to spread lies about her difficulty. She is not an easy character to pilot. Sure you can Raiden Sentai Mixup for a while but you do need to learn her other moves, her transitions, her other stances. There's a lot, but when you can make it all click, she is very strong. And that's to say nothing of her execution aspects too. People like to complain about "pressing a couple of buttons" with her, but I am willing to bet the vast majority of people who make that complaint, haven't played Reina for an extended period of time, or got high in rank with her, where they'll see that they will get cooked for those"easy win" strats.
The fun thing with Reina thugh, and why I genuinely enjoy playing her, is there is a lot to learn with her, and finding new ways to approach and attack is always fun.
Reina is dumb op
As long as you're having fun, that's ultimately what matters most ☝🏾
Carried by fun factor because you're going to have a positive mindset and play more matches so it's easier to win
I play kazya and I think that Reina is not an easy character to play Maybe at first, but then she becomes really demanding much more than jin I hope you don't change your attitude The most important thing is that you have fun with it 😁👍
Why don't people use Feng Wei?
#1 He's not intuitively easy to learn. You can't just pick him up, spam a few buttons and get a feel for the character. You actually have to study and learn his moves. That being said, his moves aren't technically challenging to pull off, you just have to know them. As a counter example, just because you know all of Kazuya's moves doesn't mean you can reliably DORYA.
Reason #2 and most importantly, HE HAS NO PERSONALITY. He's not likable and not particularly cool looking either. He's an empty vessel draped in muscles and ornate cloth. Mokujin has more personality. The people drawn to him are the meta chasers who just want to win, just not the lazy ones. And ironically that makes him the perfect avatar for them.
I was drawn to him in Tekken 5 because he reminded me of Jet Li and his rival was Lei at the time. Also, his red suit was bad ass.
Wtf are you talking about, guy shoots himself into the eye of a storm, destroys volcanoes and beat law and paul in a 1v2
He destroys your main easily
@@sheeneemee All that and he is still utterly devoid of a personality.
Ngl i found out how much Devil jin carried me when i switched to Lee after the unreasonable nerfs
DVJ wasn’t really a carry character at all only thing he needed nerfed was his heat smash
@@seanbrown7083 I don't think he carried me actually, his design was just really well suited for my playstile. I got to raijin with good electrics and wavedash mix but his extra heat stuff did help a TON in the harder matchups
Every character has a skill ceiling and a skill floor. So if we say Bryan has a skill floor of 1 and a ceiling of 10. And julia has a skill floor of 3 and a ceiling of 9. That would mean that a person just starting with julia would be able to compete with someone that put in work and got their Bryan up to a skill level of 3. The claim of Character carry occurs if a lv 2 Bryan was to match agenst a lv 3 julia. But you can also see on the other high skill end, how the reverse would be true to a julia player.
Bro I play hwoarang Lars and eddy all at Tekkenking. Of course I'm carried, I'm trash at Tekken lmao
Also got dragunov at Tekkenking just for bants 😂
You are the reason people's hair turns white 😂😂
Feng may be very strong but he has nothing in the way of abusable strings…. It’s far easier to rank up with string heavy characters because nobody really takes the time to learn all their strings.
I’m a big fan of TMM but his take on Feng has always been very over exaggerated in my opinion - However sadly people jump on that Feng hate bandwagon and take his word as gospel..
TMM knows all the string heavy characters from extensive labbing so they aren’t a problem for him - but Feng doesn’t follow a formula which is what makes him a monster for TMM
Feng is strong but only carries to a certain point - Similar to Paul ( I main them both and they actually have quite a lot of similarities in some ways )
You are carried when trivial win-button gimmicks cover for your lack of knowledge or skill. You get vastly more Ws than you would with an average character.
I use king in t8 and his grabs are very powerful but I tend to use him more like how ak is bc I prefer that play style plus I got tired of people getting upset at a grappler grappling. Its not my fault t8 gave us tracking grabs 😭🙏
Abuse them for as long as the game will let you, sir ☝🏾
I think I can answer as to why Feng is less picked despite his absurd moves is not only is he complex to pick up:
- He’s a “Stance” character
I notice in fighting games, Stance chars(normally ones with their back turned) get picked less.
- It’s why Raven is less picked as well, even though players are catching on to him. (Ahem…1 frame parry)💯
Even in games like Guilty Gear, Leo Whitefang(a stance char) is the least picked, but always makes it to Top 8 in Tournaments 💯
Either play who you want or play the characters you think will carry the most to win, but in either case stop complaining to the opponents. Go complain to the devs and give actual constructive criticism and unlike that guy Murray quoted in a tweet.
Souper Akouma was super carried in T7 with Akuma no doubt, he's still doing decent in T8 now but it's not even close to his T7 performances still year 1 so who knows how he'll shape up in the future. I never understood why the devs refused to actually address Akuma's actual problem. There were 2 things that Akuma benefitted from heavily the biggest one being his ability to build meter even from blocking with no chip, 2D fighters received chip dmg as a tradeoff from blocking and building meter. If they didn't want chipping happening regularly against 2Ds (b/c this was an issue with all 2Ds just Akuma was the worst of the 3) then they shouldn't build meter but not having both on as a check is neither faithful to their games they are from or balanced. The 2Ds will always earn meter just from blocking successfully no consequence/trade-off in T7. The 2nd thing that I'm not sure if they really could implement the change successfully is give all characters in T7's roster decent anti air options but the issue with this is you'd have to go through the entire roster of characters and their move lists and decide which character moves hit boxes should expand upwards or invent new moves just for them to have decent anti air options.
Akuma was a menace in T7 but yeah he did require skill to use him to his full potential. I feel that there’s always some level of skill needed to be good with any character, even if they are considered broken or God tier.
Yeah people are going to exploit moves or strings that are really good that might cover up their own lack of knowledge of that character or game, but there’s usually ways around the nonsense if you dedicate the time to practice and learn.
Character carrying works for every character except Kazuya
I’ve been saying this day one bruh.
*exept steve
steve, kaz, bryan
@@Funsline kaz is the worst, steve and bryan are hard but have better tools
All mishimas, bryan, Steve and Lee
I personally have nothing wrong with a Character carrying you. There is absolutely no doubt AKUMA is the most difficult character in T7. Honestly I have a problem with people who say they lost to a Carried player and make excuses. Never adapting and learning the match up. Just making excuses. I've fought a lot of players in SF6 who Wer CARRIED by Modern Honda in SF6. While they won their 1st 2 games against me, but once I figured out what they relied on, I learnt the pattern then I won the following matches. Speaking of Combo breaker. I was happy with the JACK-8 representation at that tournament.
I enjoyed TF out of Dan in SF5, most challenging character to win with
If Lars carries, play at high level and he good with him and then get back to me. Most of you don't know the Lars matchup and just WHINE about it instead of being good at the matchup.
Secondly, I'm watching a Feng player talk about characters that are carried.... Wild.
I think you misunderstood my points.
Panda and Kuma are much higher tier in Tekken 8 than they were in previous Tekkens imo. They benefit so much from the chip, heat and aggression mechanics. People don't have an excuse for ignoring those match-ups anymore. But I don't agree that picking low tiers or unpopulars can 'carry' you beyond mid ranks -- no Zafina in ranked at the moment is being carried.
As a Lars player that's starting to get into the higher ranks saying Lars is a carries you is harsh, is Lars an honest character? No, I wouldnt say he is but saying he carries people is a bit much. If you specify that Lars carries you through the low ranks I can agree due to low match up knowledge in the lower ranks. The only reason why I say this is because Lars' moveset from my experience is very punishable and side stepable, I acknowledge that this can be seen as a very weak argument but thats just my opinion.
feng downplay is crazy bro
I'm not downplaying him. I still think he probably sits second on the tier list, but it was more about to what degree do characters actually carry the player and the varying aspects of it.
@@RealMikeHollow feng is top 1 not top 2 and the amount of carry depends on your playstyle. Feng has every bullshit tool that other carry characters have. Safe heat powercrush, broken 50/50, backturn gimmicks, evasion, strings, throws, plus frame spam, huge damage, etc. he has literally everything. The amount of carry depends on your playstyle with him.
@@Funsline I disagree. I think Drag, despite his nerf is still the most effective character in play on the game. Much lower effort to do a ton of damage with and very threatening spammable buttons.
@@RealMikeHollow hahahaha have you even played drag 😁
@@Funsline yeah, I've used Drag since T5 and still do when I play offline with friends. Just don't use him on my channel. Same with some other characters.
Jin is my fav character but I don’t like how he’s easier to use than Feng now but he’s all around easier. But I got him to Emperor and DJ to king tho so dj is more challenging and fun to use for me. Jin ff2 is annoying af tho
I love Feng probably my 2nd character. I think Jin spam and victor spam theres more to the story than just that. Both of those 2 are fun to players. Victors a ghost in the shell agent and jin is the main character badass. Type an in depth victor or jin guide you’ll find tonnes same with bs and combos. Look for a feng one. Youll see a couple n thats it probably from DashFight. Feng is a fundamental i have everything use everything character thats crazy. Jin or Victor, ch b4 or victory df2 for a cool looking combo. Who do they choose? They’ll choose the fun one. Also another reason for loads of bryans who cant do taunt cancel. Hes cool fun and his combos are rewarding.
End of the day play who you love I for some reason always love the cool looking characters and they happen to be the hardest haha . Like I got into Tekken casually with Tekken 5 dr with big bro reallt only started learning the game with 8 cause I came back to Tekken late in season 4 and played it on and off casually. Now when I did play Tekken 7 I played Kazuya but had a pocket akuma cause I liked his combos and I played sf4 rank he was always my main in every sf game. Now I will say there are brain dead characters I’m not gonna lie but if you like them that’s cool. Now like I have a pocket Victor in Tekken 8 will say he is legit turn my brain off compared to Kazuya and that’s my opinion. I think some people will think every character is equally difficult but in terms of ease of access in every fighting game it will differentiate. I will die on the hill saying characters all play different and learning curves are different so don’t be annoyed if your character is easy if they are easy hey that’s cool ! Who cares. I will play whoever looks cool and has the most fun playstyle regardless if they are the easiest character in the game or the hardest just find it so funny the characters I find cool af happen to all be hard af in the fighting games I play LOL.
Me, a Kuma player:
(x-4) x 1.5 = 6
So, x = 8
My opponent, who is carried:
4+4 = 8
😂😂😂
And Victor Players: 8=8.
Akuma was not that difficult. This idea that you needed a PHD to play him is nonsense. Akuma definitely carried people. I think the reason people didn't play Akuma all that often is simply because people didn't like him. He wasn't very fun for most tekken players. You're gonna tell me Knee couldn't play a high-level Akuma if he wanted to. The reality is Akuma is a weird streetfighter character in a tekken game. He doesn't appeal to tekken players. Also, when was the last time you saw SuperAkouma be on the big stage in tekken 8. If that guy wins a big Tekken 8 tournament, I'll eat my fuckin hat. That guy was insanely carried, lol.
I'm saving this comment for future reference 😂
@@RealMikeHollow please do. The ball is in SuperAkoumas court. That guy will not be a threat in big international tournaments. Quote me on that.
Might not agree with your useage of astronomically haha, but I really do think your take holds weight. I thought the same for a while, the chance of success rate, definitely lies with the easier to play : best tools ratio. I.e a character that sits mid tier, and requires a medium amount of effort, should in theory be the most balanced in "carriedness". When a character is easy to play but is also a really good character, then I think that would best describe a carry character. I think Azucena on release, is probably a good example. Yes she's actually more complex than meets the eye, but from a very basic playstyle, her free and relentless pressure, great frames, COMBINED with easy execution, flexible gameplan, meant she carried a lot of people.
But deeper to that, I think, you can say a Pro is carried - Further - than they would be, by a character. So in your case, Akuma, whilst being a very difficult character to master, Top players would be able to leverage all the extra benefits Akuma brings. Because the barriers of execution, systems like meter and cancelable strings, aren't present for them the way they are for others. So in that sense, Clone A, can beat Clone B, if they use Akuma, and Clone B, uses a standard High tier with normal fundamental Tekken system rules applied.
One other note is that, when a character is merely underused, it's a knowledge check character, rather than a carry character. You can't really be carried by an unpredictable factor of whether your opponent knows or not. The case of carrying, probably is more in line with the success rate being more favourable, as less people will know the character than others. However, for me carried is mostly when you reach higher states of play; and in the case of knowledge check chars, you'll not find good players often getting hit with basic scrub killer strings from Bears.
I think people should play the damn game and stop worrying about what other people think
Very true.
It really only matters in the lower ranks once you get into red and above you gotta actually learn your character so this notion that people get carried by a character is useless and dumb
You ever played Smash Brawl? 😂 To what degree does the character need to become a super Saiyan for you to say they're not carried? It can certainly happen and before the Drag nerf, it was a fair argument to make.
Off topic, Mike what did you think of the Lidia trailer?
She seems kinda cool. It's nice that the roster is getting bigger and at first I didn't think I'd bother trying her, but I watched it over a few times and I might give her a go whilst I wait for Marduk to come out. She seems to have some interesting tools.
@@RealMikeHollow she was so dope in T7. She quickly became one of my faves. I noticed a lot of interesting changes/additions from trailer; assuming I interpreted correctly. Definitely looking forward to her. No word on when she is being released right?
@@yadielayalarecycled content
@@exiledhebrew1994 huh?