I got super nervous when I saw the thumbnail pop up. I love Numan and didn't want to find out he was faking. I've seen him live several times and everything seemed legit but you never know these days. I'm very relieved to see that he is as awesome as I believed him to be. Thanks Fil!🤘
@@Mooseman327 - the guy is 66 singing a song that was released when he was 21, expecting it to sound the same is where this insanity is coming from & the pitch correction is being done to satisfy that…
@@geirmyrvagnes8718Fair enough! My point though was that no one can speak on behalf of anyone else. Just themselves. It's believing in illusion to think otherwise. And myself and other industry and ex-industry professionals have always known about this and it's old news, yet not to you and other uneducated or younger people, or whatever the reason is for not knowing anything about this and then feeling supposedly 'educated'. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 So once they're educated, they are no longer uneducated, are they. So, you are one of those people that have kept silent about this scandal then. I wouldn't brag about it if I were you.
I have to commend you on how you don’t miss anything, Fil! Your tenacious approach to finding the glitches in these “live” performances is amazing! Yes, the rabbit hole is getting deeper. From what you’re describing, it seems like Gary isn’t aware of what’s being released. The never ending circle as you described-I don’t know, are we trying to make sense of the senseless in the music industry? Anyway, thanks for your great analysis, Fil! Rock on, mate!
@@thekeysman6760 In the U.S. "inverted commas" are really only used inside quotation marks. What you're saying is gibberish. In fact, if you're going to spam this comment section with your grammar pedantry, then at least learn how to write a coherent sentence.
Its like Cat Stevens in his early career. The production put all of the lush instruments, harps etc, backing vocals, without his permission. He hated what they did. Elvis would get angry, when his grammy winning gospel albums were changed in the production. His vocal was raised above the other vocals, which he hated. He wouldn't find out what had been done until the album was released.
Live audio is taken back to the studio...remixed and repaired before release. standard procedure. ALL artists do this. HE SANG LIVE.... IT WAS REPAIRED OR REPLACED IN THE STUDIO...
Hi Fil, Great analysis tonight! This song is so 80s and so “New Wave”. It’s one of those songs that you just never get tired of hearing. Interesting to see the side by side comparisons. Love Gary’s unique voice! Thanks for doing this one. Debbie☮️
The term and genre New Wave means what it means and needs no punctuation, let alone incorrectly quoting nobody at all. Even 'New Wave' in inverted commas implying so-called or supposedly is incorrect. 🕊️
@@FuchsiaPeake They are never "grammatically" incorrect, no. Spelling and punctuation aren't grammar, and you're not quoting anyone saying the word your. 😐
@@debbier938 One hobby is helping fellow humans be understood. You're welcome. It's nice and brings unity. Unlike your socially-divisive comments. Plus I don't correct grammar, I only correct spelling and punctuation. 🕊️
Sooo, who gives the production team permission to release the corrected official version?? Seems to me that’s the additional clarity needed in the music world…. (Thanks, Fil 👏)
@@TheEWFX29 'Management' is nothing to do with 'production team' and 'representatives' don't 'distribute' music. Distributers do. What are you talking about? You know you're making up nonsense from your mind, yeah? Well, you do now. 🕊️
Oh we love the crowd shot footage Its disappointing when artists say they sing live and do on the night sing live. BUT the official video is blatantly a different sound track.
No one is disputing he's singing live, but here we have proof when you buy the live album, they have changed the live vocal. And yes he knows they do it.
Weird the sizable number of people in the comments who don't seem to have watched the video. For their benefit, the video shows Numan did not mime - the vocal heard at the live show was the one he sang there, without pitch correction - but that clearly that vocal has been replaced out for the release of the 'live recording' with a better one, which in addition looks like it has been pitch-corrected. I disagree with a few people here who are saying, "nothing to see here, this is the norm" ... no, sorry, I can live with some technical editing out of someone banging a door or something like that, but a 'live recording' should convey the sound that happened live. Gary Numan is one of my favourite musical artists, and I hope he does look at this video by Fil and make sure it doesn't happen again. It's not like he desperately needs vocal manipulation anyway ... his lyrics are about alien dystopias, machines and loneliness; so it's not like his fans are needing him to punch out a mezzosoprano's ringing high C. His vocals are not technically excellent and never have been, but they ARE unique and highly appropriate for the music.
That dont always happen either Fil did videos of the eagles live and put up video of previous n was exact same. Proving they were lipsynching same with taylor swift which she is young enough to never need to
@@thekeysman6760 There, they're, their grammar Na-zi. Your first sentence makes zero sense. And ending a sentence with a preposition? Now go to your room and think about what you've done.
@@nucleargrizzly1776 Nazis killed people, you moron. Reported. Spelling and punctuation aren't grammar. And I didn't end with a preposition, yet it's allowed informally ie here! What are you talking about? 🤦♂️
@thekeysman6760 "80's" is US standard. Of course it make no sense and it irks for someone used to English style, me included, but you need to get over it for your own sanity, as it's what they do over there.
@@jeremyashford2145 No, it isn't "US standard"! 😂 Adding the apostrophe means something _belonging_ to the 80s, in English and so-called 'American English. The decade themselves are still the 80s! 🤦♂️Okay, so you're right: 'US standard' is stupidity, yes. Yet your understanding is as bad or worse. I've just educated another person in the apostrophe that means belonging to, and I'm now bewildered why you would think you knew anything proper in order to actuallly speak your nonsense to me in the first place. Be well. 🕊️
I've seen Numan a few times live. He sings with amazing emotion and conviction with his own style and part of that means he is not pitch perfect all the time. Absolutely an awesome performer that makes you believe what he is singing. It is so much fun to see the whole audience from very young to very old singing along and smiling!
Because strangely enough with his persona he might not be a technical wizard and isnt involved with it. What is this video? Do you think the Stones watch the videos of them in concert from 1972 that has been released? Probably sold and Gary has no thought about a live concert released. This doesn't appear to be a major show, it was probably released on video and Gary just said ok and got paid. He isnt mixing and producing the video.
It makes absolutely no sence for them to go to the effort of changing his vocal without him knowing. His live albums would still sell the same regardless of vocal changes, Numan fans would still purchase them. He knows exactly what's happening.
Many people work on this stuff, and probably go through a lot of hands. Itt coukd be a multitude of exact causes, but it makes sense that it would happen. Have you never worked in a job where different departments have different practices, and communication breaks down on a project?
I photographed Gary on his tour last year and stood about a foot or two from him as he sang and can confirm that he 100% was not miming. His voice is still great. Excellent video 🤘🤘
He didn't say he was miming..... so you are getting all defensive about nothing. I guess the video is excellent because everything has been 'fixed' on the official release.
Brilliant, I personally love this kind of analysis that involves your great detective work and raises some interesting questions. It would be fascinating to know what Gary does know about his official release, if he thinks it's his original vocal spruced up a bit, or if he knows they have totally replaced it. It seems like maybe he doesn't know...
@cindi1313 I have a mansion, forget the price Ain't never been there, they tell me it's nice I live in hotels, tear out the walls I have accounts pay for it all Life's Been Good Joe Walsh Who knows? 🤓 I love a good mystery too! Ann
It is very similar though, at one point almost like an echo, could the timing be changed by the same pitch correcting software rather than a total replace?
Great analysis, as always. Just an observation: keep in mind that your right is our left and vice versa, so when you point to your l/r monitor it can potentially get slightly confusing.
My best friend in high school was a Gary Numan fan. Chris liked him so much that one day he came to school looking a bit "strange." To look more like his hero, Chris had shaved off his eyebrows! 🤣
G'day from Oz. Maybe Gary can't, but plenty of vocalists can sing as good as, if not better than decades before. Check out recent live performances by Darryl Hall, John Farnham, Boz Scaggs, Kenny Loggins, Tom Jones, and many more, in their 60s or 70s. No auto correct, just brilliant vocalists. I'm sure Fil agrees with me, just ask him. Please check some out for youself. They're awesome.
@@marpsr Of course in a studio these days they can make the average karaoke Joe sound professional. Live is the true test. But even then technology now has live pitch correction.
Thanks Fil, this is very eye opening, for sure. Taking both videos and playing them side by side shows what is really happening. It is a very convincing analysis. Who do you think is most responsible for these altered recordings? Is it the artist or the producers? And why?
Uh, yeah. And we just heard at the end there how out of tune he was live. So the fact you "totally 'felt' it was live" was a lucky 'feel', yet if you couldn't hear how bad he was singing stick with 'feelings'. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 I saw him at a completely different venue and to be honest I can't even remember thinking at any point he was or may have been out of tune because it was live to my ear and I can forgive performances that may not be pitch perfect or in tune if they really truly are live. And how can I truly know what is actually live with all the wizardry that goes on. That's why I respect these analysis videos. So I think the word "felt" was appropriate. Thank you for your thoughts.
@@archiediggins641 Your question "And how can I truly know what is actually live with all the wizardry that goes on?" is a question and needed a question mark, and the answer from a sound-engineer of the last 30+ years is that you can't because _you_ can't hear it. Obviously. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 Good grief, your running rings round me now. Do you think Gary Numan sings live yes or no? And surely it's okay for me a humble fan, not to know what you know with your 30+ years as a sound-engineer. And thats a statement rather than a question.
@@archiediggins641 I don't "think" he sings live; I, and you if you watched the phone footage just now, _know_ he sings live! What are you talking about? And it sounded awful! Did you even get to the end of the video? I believe you will hear how awful his live singing was. You're/you are* running rings, not your meaning belonging to. I'm not, I'm trying to help a fellow human be universally understood in the future! 😂 🕊️
Very well done, like always. It's nothing new though, it's been happening for years; the real live vocals replaced by another more ''perfect'' one, sometimes even the studio version. On youtube sometimes uploaders do it themselves, replacing a not pitch perfect vocal for a perfect one. A pity, i prefer emotion (live) over perfection.
I saw him in March 2024, and he absolutely was not lip synching or singing along to prerecorded tracks. They really ought to leave well enough alone because he still sounds great, but we know how that goes these days.
Really excellent thorough analysis. Well done Fil. I wonder whether the processing could be so heavy that they've shifted the timing of the notes too, which might account for the discrepancy. Is this plausible?
I think his own people just betrayed him in the official release from the crowd shot footage .... Wow, if you can't trust your own team, who can you trust?
As a Numan fan in the earlier part of his career, I was expecting him to be covered on this channel because there has been since the 1990s chatter as to whether he's lip-synching.
I wonder if the timing and pitch are both being corrected. Melodyne, as far as I'm aware, can do both easily. Form Gary's perspective, it makes sense why he'd not see the distinction if it's a "fixed" live vocal. "What I'm doing live is LIVE, but I want it cleaned up for official release instead of a 'warts and all' bootleg."
Most Numan fans with a brain have known for years that he sings live on the night but the released version is either re-sung or pitch corrected. And it's not just the vocal, it's laughably obvious that a lot of the music is re-recorded for the live release too. Nobody is stabbing him in the back. He knows exactly what he's doing as he usually mixes his own albums or mixes them alongside someone else. So when he says, in the video, that he sings live and is proud of his own voice, why is he modifying his vocals for the mix? Because he's a liar. If you want live, go to the show, but you wont be getting a true live release - the whole thing is remade. Fake.
Well with exceptions, and with no judgement, this is simply how many live recordings are handled. There's the bootleg when you hear people coughing or eating their snacks or planes going overhead... Then there's the "live" that borrows from perhaps numerous live performances or even custom studio do overs. If you're not there *live* it's never live anyway (the stereo isn't human), but any amount of processing could happen anywhere these days and often does. I just don't think live albums are for "liveness" (any more?) so much as a potentially live presentation or even just different orchestration. Not a declaration of good or bad... It's just an observation of how it is.
@@tttm99 @tttm99 @tttm99 Of course live albums are for liveness - that's the whole point. The only difference between a live recording and a bootleg is that there's a mixing desk at the venue to eradicate unwanted room acoustics and levelise the instruments. What we're talking about is Numan going in the studio and re-recording/replacing entire vocal and instrument parts, which is a whole new level of fakery.
Years ago, I saw someone discuss the post production of some sort of famous "live" album from the 70s - like a tv interview with the producer or the recording engineer or somesuch. The argument was that the live recording tech was just not good enough at the time. And IIRC, they stated that they were only required to get the essential drums cleanly and the drummer needed to be in time... Everything else, they would replace later. If they failed to record the drums or the drummer screwed up, the "live" album would then be toast. Then the band would come in and re-record all of / most of / much of their parts from the live show, as needed. I don't recall where I saw this interview (interview presumably from the 80s)- but I actually thought about how difficult it must be for the band to come in the studio and try to re-create the energy level from that concert and play perfectly in sync with it. I guess they did not have to worry about being captured on video then. Funny how that interview affected the way I thought about a "live" recording all these years. I'm glad that Gary was telling the truth. That makes me a bit happy. Great work Fil! Another outstanding video!
Detective Fil again!! I hope he sees your video and gets his video fixed. He is over 60 but still doing live shows, some commenters say they have seen shows he did not sing live, without video I would trust Gary on that for now. I Hope you stay safe and healthy Fil.
The older cameras had an issue if a loud noise was picked up it would effect the video, on shows the camera is close they had to do it or the video would not be very good, on shows the cameras were a long distance from the stage they did it live. Midnight Special could do live shows, top of the pops couldn't.
Ive seen Gary Numan live a few times. My dad loves him. He was definately singing live. He seems like a really honest guy and has obviously been really detailed about what’s live and what’s not to add to the sound. I agree with you Fil that Numan had no idea they’ve edited him after the performance with pitch correction and going as far as replacing some of the vocal from some other random performance. I bet he’d be outraged because he’s genuine, he’s never made out he’s the best singer in the world and no one has ever tried to push that agenda.
End of the day, Gary sings live. His video is enhanced so his fans get to hear the Gary Numan they want to hear, i.e. the best version. Everybody wins, nobody lies.
At least the fans on the night are getting a live vocal performance. Newman might not even be paying attention to RUclips and what his label or production team is releasing
Hi Fil, this all makes perfect sense. You pay to see the performer perform live - warts and all. With respect to Gary I am not sure that his live vocal would stand repeat listening - therefore they fix his live vocal with a subtle overdub from other live performances. This has been the way it has been done for classical ‘live’ performances for years - take the basic live performance and fix with redubs. Great work Fil, cheers Matt
YEs, DId Gary go back in and re-record his vocal for the video - ? they do it all the time for FILMS - Which I am OK with - cuz it sounds a lot better than the Live slurring mess - pretty sure they could not use the original vocals as ( cuz of age ) it would not match. (I prefer listening to a slurry mess during a live performance) Went back in and rerecorded his vocals - They might even have fixed a few of the synthesizer notes. Phil , you nailed it again.
Do you think that it’s possible that it is the same vocal from the night but that it’s just so edited that it ends up appearing like it could be a different one? Possibly that mixed with the way the footage is edited on the official release.
That's a great explanation by Gary and it all makes perfect sense to me. While I don't go to a gig to hear the same sounds I hear on the recorded album, I understand what he's saying about using tech to recreate the songs as people recall them from the album. What Gary is NOT saying is that he uses Auto-Tune live and he's not mentioning pitch correction. Which is encouraging. But, what does he mean by "pitch shifters"?
Pitch shifting is an effect that will layer another, wait for it, 'pitch-shifted' vocal of his live vocal. To get a harmony or harmonies next to his live vocal. Existed since the Eventide H910 Harmonizer from 1975.
It is common practice when an artist puts out a performance for DVD (or whatever format), the recording is done over multiple shows, then the best parts are edited together. Look at Van Halen’s, Right Here Right Now. Sammy Hagar’s outfit is changing back and forth throughout that show.
Doesn't make it right. It is still a deception aimed at their own audience which has no excuse when you are any kind of artist (music, paint, sculpture, poetry, etc). It is just a matter of time, with other like Fil doing this now, that all artists during this era will be called out for not being genuine with proof readily available. Gary is true by what we have seen and if so, he should be finding the person involved and publicly stating who altered his music. That's what I would be telling him if I was his manager or anyone's manager at this time. Taking the best nose from all of a particular model's face shots and then the mouth, eyes, lashes, etc, etc and put them in one face shot, that is no longer the original person and in no way could visually represent them. My opinion of course.
Gary was so brilliant and innovative that I hope what he says about himself is true. The first time I heard him I knew he was different. A true musical genius. Plus the music industry is soooo corrupt.
I've seen him live a few times and always enjoyed it. Im pretty sure he's admitted years ago to re doing vocals on live releases. This is why I guess it takes so long for his live albums to come out, such as the Wembury show that was in 2022, still nothing.
Even back in the 70's, in the heyday of the "live" album, most of these were extensively reworked with studio overdubs, not only of the vocals, but of the instruments as well. So this isn't a new thing. Neil Young even once released a "liver" version of a previously-released "live" album, which I think still had some overdubs. I'm on the fence about this, even in situations where the overdubs weren't initially disclosed. On the one hand, it's "fraudulent." But on the other, they put some absolutely classic albums together like this, that married the energy and spontaneity of a live performance with the accuracy of a studio recording. The results were frequently better than the studio versions of the songs. I get it that this is different from the heavy AutoTuning, or even pasting an entirely different performance (like this here), that's done today. But's it's not entirely distinct either.
70s*, no apostrophe saying 70 is. Live means what it means and needs no punctuation, let alone incorrectly quoting nobody at all. 'Live' in inverted commas would imply so-called or supposedly, and can be used sarcastically. 🕊️
@@EmmanuelGoldstein3 exactly right. On the eclaimed Seconds Out live Genesis album, Phil is even harmonising with himself on some tracks. I assume they took off the poor backing vocals from Tony and Mike, and got Phil to replace them in the Studio.
@@rogereverett4467 Your penultimate word live means what it means and needs no punctuation, let alone incorrectly quoting nobody at all. 'Live' in inverted commas implying so-called or supposedly. 🕊️
My only question is how can so many artists be so unaware of what is being done to their fully live voice, whether on an officially released live performance on RUclips or, even more incomprehensible, released as a box set of live performances from a venue like Royal Albert Hall. I don't know how much control Gary Numan has over what happens to his voice once his fully live performances get officially uploaded to RUclips but I do know that Bryan Adams is in so complete control over every single aspect of his career to the point where he has his own record label and, apparently, radio station. Somehow or other, I'm going to try to get some answers from Bryan, indirectly, about all this and encourage his involvement in Fil's side project.
A lot of performers don't like watching themselves or listening back to their own vocals, specially if it's a live performance where they know they've made some kind of mistake they can't take back. I could absolutely believe that in this case Gary has maybe half watched this video once at most, was like, "Yeah, that sounds fine. You can put that out," and never thought about it again.
@@wendyheatherwood Yeah, but artists must be aware of the music industry standard use of pitch correction and how its use can make a great singer's voice sound bad. That's what I'm really talking about. I mean, it can't be just those of us who follow WoP who know what's going on, right?
He does indeed sing live, I went to three shows on this tour. I also went to the shows with an orchestra, and again, he had live vox. I think this is definitely a case of "extreme post-production editing" Did he know at the time? I'm not sure, I'm thinking he will now.? Can I find my DVD from the tour to watch/listen and find out a bit more? Nope! I guess it's kinda like how Pink Floyd edited out some of Guys solos from The Division Bell reissue... It's now not the live show it should be.
I have been going to see Numan since 83 and have racked up more than a 100 shows.. On the night he really does not mime. He makes plenty of fluff ups, forgetting words, missing coming in now and again and the occasional laugh at the crowd that gives me no doubt he is singing live. He also has some nights where he is terrible while others are incredible. I know for a fact he records vocals to 'correct' the live sound if he is releasing it. This never used to be the case, this seems to have started around 15 ago so years ago. Further more he makes no secret of this. I have read in blogs of his that so and so night was recorded but he is redoing some vocals as he is not happy with them, I was a subscriber on his last album 'Intruder' where he let us see at various stages how the album was taking shape and on one of those he said referenced rerecording a 'live' vocal and there was even a snippet of it and it was recorded in his own studio. Personally I would rather he didn't but I don't call him as he makes no secret of it. Regarding his statement of how he deals with his vocals on stage, I see him thinking the miming accusations were levelled at his actual shows rather than his released 'live' material. The irritating thing about Numan is his constant belittlement of his own voice. He is always calling it down. Granted he is no Freddy Mercury but has a unique voice which is very distinctive that you can never confuse with someone else and that I guess is his motivation to 'fix' his live stuff before he releases it. I would rather the warts 'n all version but I know why he does it
Hey, Fil... you're in the minds of some big names... Steve Lukather just shouted you out in Rick Beato's latest interview - right near the end of the video.
Another great job from Fil. After months of these videos I now have become completely cynical of live performances. However, i dont think it will change the entertainment industry too much. I think the begrudgement stems from the high price of tickets for star acts to find they are augmenting their performances and not earning their dues with what we think we were paying for. I imagine this fakery will only get more prevalent if we are stupid enough to pacify this trend. 😢
Ok I have a fix. Let's petition "the Don" to issue a new edict banning all use of auto tune or pitch correction in any music. Takers? Yeah I thought so. I'm on it
Maybe he sings live in concert, knowing it will be “ produced “ after ? I’m wondering if someone has a scam going on all of these auto tuned releases. Who gets paid to do this to a song, and who does the paying?
Long time Numan fan here - he re-records for live releases where required. Pretty sure he has done for a long time. Not just vocals either. Probably why I prefer listening to decent quality bootlegs! That said, I did see 1 show of his in the 00s where I could hear a main vocal after he stepped back from the mic on part of 1 song. But yeah - he's aware all right. :)
Cars is one of those songs to me that is a studio work of art that I love, but not so great live. As for altering the official video, it wouldn't surprise me that Gary (and many other artists) has no idea what goes on with producing the video. Most likely young tech geeks utilizing the tricks they've learned to 'clean up' a live performance. Certainly not knowing, or caring, that anyone would ever notice what they've done.
Melodyne can move and stretch notes in time as well as pitch, so it’s possible his timing was moved toward the grid in post. Live vocal was so sloppy though that I’m not sure whether it’s the same take.
So, if the autotuned audio was ahead of the actual live recording, and the autotuned vocal was BEHIND (in timing) his head drop at the mic when he sang "in cars," (5:16) wouldn't that mean the head drop would come even SOONER than the actual live vocal of "in cars"?
He must do a vocal recorded so the videos have a studio vocal for internet use. He must know or why record it...?? yes he sings live , but has done a studio version for advertising.
If a vocal is bad, it's been common practice for the past 30+ years to overdub and replace the original. Is it right or ethical? That's a different conversation altogether.
Couldn't AI correct the timing by learning from previous releases whether live or studio.. He obviously sings live, but perhaps doesn't mind what anyone might do with any public digital release
couldnt the engineers use the live vocals, and tweak them and fine tune them for the video release? Are you SURE its an entirely different vocal from a different show?
If your the artist, think twice before you ask security to stop that fan from recording. That crowd shot footage might just save you from your own production company.🤣
I've seen him live twice now and I don't care. His voice is not to everyone's cup of tea and his stage act is pretty hammy BUT we go there to see him and soak in the atmosphere. The audience at a Numan concert is just a massive crowd of mainly older people but you do see younger ones as well just having a bloody good time. Also the thing about him is he is known for being honest sometimes to his detriment and if he was "lipsinking" he'd admit it. I'm glad you have managed to clear up the confusion about his vocals. Sadly too many people just like thinking the worse about him so they won't be convinced.
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Is Fil the world's first investigative music producer?
Another great one
You might be on to something there!
Rock and roll detective
I got super nervous when I saw the thumbnail pop up. I love Numan and didn't want to find out he was faking. I've seen him live several times and everything seemed legit but you never know these days. I'm very relieved to see that he is as awesome as I believed him to be. Thanks Fil!🤘
Well, not quite. The original, unrepaired live version is not anywhere as good as the "corrected' version.
@@Mooseman327 You really think that!?
@@Mooseman327 - the guy is 66 singing a song that was released when he was 21, expecting it to sound the same is where this insanity is coming from & the pitch correction is being done to satisfy that…
He's not faking
@@matthewjessup8584his Barber says different.
Steve Lukather, mentioned you in Beato’s latest video.
Oh yes, I had planned to watch that one, too! Thank you for the reminder!
😀👍
Do you know the time stamp on that?
@@randywissler9923 around 40mins in.
Why didn't Gary hide in his car and lock all the doors so he could not be stabbed in the back or anywhere else?
Auto-tune!
463K subscribers!
CONGRATS.
🤘💜
Brilliant analysis! I appreciate your work in educating your audience about this stuff.
Educating 'you'.
@@thekeysman6760 Educating me, too. That makes at least two, so "us".
@@geirmyrvagnes8718Fair enough! My point though was that no one can speak on behalf of anyone else. Just themselves. It's believing in illusion to think otherwise. And myself and other industry and ex-industry professionals have always known about this and it's old news, yet not to you and other uneducated or younger people, or whatever the reason is for not knowing anything about this and then feeling supposedly 'educated'. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 So once they're educated, they are no longer uneducated, are they. So, you are one of those people that have kept silent about this scandal then. I wouldn't brag about it if I were you.
Thanks, Fil. Another solid job.
I have to commend you on how you don’t miss anything, Fil! Your tenacious approach to finding the glitches in these “live” performances is amazing! Yes, the rabbit hole is getting deeper. From what you’re describing, it seems like Gary isn’t aware of what’s being released. The never ending circle as you described-I don’t know, are we trying to make sense of the senseless in the music industry? Anyway, thanks for your great analysis, Fil! Rock on, mate!
You mean 'live' in inverted commas implying so-called or supposedly, not quotation marks quoting nobody at all. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 Right, like it's proper to say thekeysman6760 is 'special', rather than "special" because you would be quoting nobody at all. 😁
@@cindi1313 Correct. And why would you want to be reported for saying such a thing to me?
@ Reported for what?
@@thekeysman6760 In the U.S. "inverted commas" are really only used inside quotation marks. What you're saying is gibberish. In fact, if you're going to spam this comment section with your grammar pedantry, then at least learn how to write a coherent sentence.
Its like Cat Stevens in his early career. The production put all of the lush instruments, harps etc, backing vocals, without his permission. He hated what they did. Elvis would get angry, when his grammy winning gospel albums were changed in the production. His vocal was raised above the other vocals, which he hated. He wouldn't find out what had been done until the album was released.
Live audio is taken back to the studio...remixed and repaired before release. standard procedure. ALL artists do this.
HE SANG LIVE.... IT WAS REPAIRED OR REPLACED IN THE STUDIO...
Same as Peter Gabriel.
When I go to concerts I always ask to be seated in the non lip-synching section.
Brilliant! I'll have to request that next time I go to a show to see how the ticket checker reacts.
Whenever he's singing it's live. Later, not so much.
That makes sense...
Hi Fil,
Great analysis tonight! This song is so 80s and so “New Wave”. It’s one of those songs that you just never get tired of hearing. Interesting to see the side by side comparisons. Love Gary’s unique voice! Thanks for doing this one. Debbie☮️
The term and genre New Wave means what it means and needs no punctuation, let alone incorrectly quoting nobody at all. Even 'New Wave' in inverted commas implying so-called or supposedly is incorrect. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760and yet so many of "YOUR" comments are grammatically incorrect.
@@thekeysman6760 Thank you so much for correcting my grammar…. NOT… too much time on your hands!!!! Get a hobby!
@@FuchsiaPeake They are never "grammatically" incorrect, no. Spelling and punctuation aren't grammar, and you're not quoting anyone saying the word your. 😐
@@debbier938 One hobby is helping fellow humans be understood. You're welcome. It's nice and brings unity. Unlike your socially-divisive comments. Plus I don't correct grammar, I only correct spelling and punctuation. 🕊️
Sooo, who gives the production team permission to release the corrected official version?? Seems to me that’s the additional clarity needed in the music world….
(Thanks, Fil 👏)
'Production team'? 😂
Why should they listen to some ordinary musician?
Management. People from his label or some other representative who distributes his music.
@@TheEWFX29 No. He's always done almost everything himself, and often with a fellow engineer.
@@TheEWFX29 'Management' is nothing to do with 'production team' and 'representatives' don't 'distribute' music. Distributers do. What are you talking about? You know you're making up nonsense from your mind, yeah? Well, you do now. 🕊️
Oh we love the crowd shot footage Its disappointing when artists say they sing live and do on the night sing live. BUT the official video is blatantly a different sound track.
It seems the best of a bad situation to me though - those that are paying for a live concert are getting just that.
I've photographed Gary Numan a number of times since 2017 - when you're standing less than 6 feet away from him you can hear him singing!
@coldw4rning exactly. He's great to photograph as well.
No one is disputing he's singing live, but here we have proof when you buy the live album, they have changed the live vocal. And yes he knows they do it.
He sings live and it's his own hair, not a wig.
You are suggesting he is wearing a wig too ?!@travisash8180
Weird the sizable number of people in the comments who don't seem to have watched the video. For their benefit, the video shows Numan did not mime - the vocal heard at the live show was the one he sang there, without pitch correction - but that clearly that vocal has been replaced out for the release of the 'live recording' with a better one, which in addition looks like it has been pitch-corrected. I disagree with a few people here who are saying, "nothing to see here, this is the norm" ... no, sorry, I can live with some technical editing out of someone banging a door or something like that, but a 'live recording' should convey the sound that happened live. Gary Numan is one of my favourite musical artists, and I hope he does look at this video by Fil and make sure it doesn't happen again. It's not like he desperately needs vocal manipulation anyway ... his lyrics are about alien dystopias, machines and loneliness; so it's not like his fans are needing him to punch out a mezzosoprano's ringing high C. His vocals are not technically excellent and never have been, but they ARE unique and highly appropriate for the music.
Great video Fil
Moral of the story, you want to see him sing live, pay for your ticket to see it live.. LOL
That dont always happen either Fil did videos of the eagles live and put up video of previous n was exact same. Proving they were lipsynching same with taylor swift which she is young enough to never need to
gary just needs to fire his production team, ie those responsible for "correcting" his vocals and hire those he can rely on not to mess with the mekon
I saw Numan in the 80's. Some of the music was prerecorded. Added to the live performance. His vocals were definitely live
80s*, no apostrophe saying 80 is. Eighties has no apostrophe. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 There, they're, their grammar Na-zi. Your first sentence makes zero sense. And ending a sentence with a preposition? Now go to your room and think about what you've done.
@@nucleargrizzly1776 Nazis killed people, you moron. Reported. Spelling and punctuation aren't grammar. And I didn't end with a preposition, yet it's allowed informally ie here! What are you talking about? 🤦♂️
@thekeysman6760
"80's" is US standard.
Of course it make no sense and it irks for someone used to English style, me included, but you need to get over it for your own sanity, as it's what they do over there.
@@jeremyashford2145 No, it isn't "US standard"! 😂 Adding the apostrophe means something _belonging_ to the 80s, in English and so-called 'American English. The decade themselves are still the 80s! 🤦♂️Okay, so you're right: 'US standard' is stupidity, yes. Yet your understanding is as bad or worse. I've just educated another person in the apostrophe that means belonging to, and I'm now bewildered why you would think you knew anything proper in order to actuallly speak your nonsense to me in the first place. Be well. 🕊️
I've seen Numan a few times live. He sings with amazing emotion and conviction with his own style and part of that means he is not pitch perfect all the time. Absolutely an awesome performer that makes you believe what he is singing. It is so much fun to see the whole audience from very young to very old singing along and smiling!
Exactly. People who admire Numan know that, and love him for it. Emotion over perfection
Why dosen't Gary have the clout to tell the production company not to change the live performance?,talk about ruining tbe music industry!.
Because strangely enough with his persona he might not be a technical wizard and isnt involved with it. What is this video? Do you think the Stones watch the videos of them in concert from 1972 that has been released? Probably sold and Gary has no thought about a live concert released. This doesn't appear to be a major show, it was probably released on video and Gary just said ok and got paid. He isnt mixing and producing the video.
He knows it's been played with.Dont be naive.
@@TheEWFX29 Hmm, the poster below says he DOES mix his own stuff....
It makes absolutely no sence for them to go to the effort of changing his vocal without him knowing. His live albums would still sell the same regardless of vocal changes, Numan fans would still purchase them. He knows exactly what's happening.
Many people work on this stuff, and probably go through a lot of hands. Itt coukd be a multitude of exact causes, but it makes sense that it would happen. Have you never worked in a job where different departments have different practices, and communication breaks down on a project?
I photographed Gary on his tour last year and stood about a foot or two from him as he sang and can confirm that he 100% was not miming. His voice is still great.
Excellent video 🤘🤘
Not really hard songs to sing though are they. 🙄
@kadiummusic dunno mate, I've never tried
@@kadiummusic Beside the point isn't it. 🙄
lulz, well I guess that closes the case. Rando photographer chimes in with rando "confirmation".
Nothing to see here, right?
He didn't say he was miming..... so you are getting all defensive about nothing. I guess the video is excellent because everything has been 'fixed' on the official release.
"caaaaarrrrrrrrs" lol that was hilarious.
Brilliant, I personally love this kind of analysis that involves your great detective work and raises some interesting questions. It would be fascinating to know what Gary does know about his official release, if he thinks it's his original vocal spruced up a bit, or if he knows they have totally replaced it. It seems like maybe he doesn't know...
@cindi1313
I have a mansion, forget the price
Ain't never been there, they tell me it's nice
I live in hotels, tear out the walls
I have accounts pay for it all
Life's Been Good
Joe Walsh
Who knows? 🤓
I love a good mystery too! Ann
ive witnessed a song straight the vocals start and numan run across the stage to join in at the mic
He could know that it's a manipulated vocal on the releases and still say I don't lip sync and be 100% truthful.
It is very similar though, at one point almost like an echo, could the timing be changed by the same pitch correcting software rather than a total replace?
Outstanding analysis.
Great analysis, as always. Just an observation: keep in mind that your right is our left and vice versa, so when you point to your l/r monitor it can potentially get slightly confusing.
My best friend in high school was a Gary Numan fan. Chris liked him so much that one day he came to school looking a bit "strange."
To look more like his hero, Chris had shaved off his eyebrows! 🤣
The overdubbed vocal sounds better to me-for a home video release. It's a common practice to overdub DVDs. People should know this by now.
Gary Numan is 66 - he can't possibly sound as good as when he was 26.
He sure looked lively on stage! And the live vocals Fil played sounded good to me. Yes, it's changed over time, I agree.
Actually, his voice has gotten better over time, at least on the albums. Live may be a different story.
G'day from Oz. Maybe Gary can't, but plenty of vocalists can sing as good as, if not better than decades before. Check out recent live performances by Darryl Hall, John Farnham, Boz Scaggs, Kenny Loggins, Tom Jones, and many more, in their 60s or 70s. No auto correct, just brilliant vocalists. I'm sure Fil agrees with me, just ask him. Please check some out for youself. They're awesome.
@@juliemartin2834 - Robert Smith still sounds very much the same as several decades ago, too! Similar age as Numan's, I think 🙂
@@marpsr Of course in a studio these days they can make the average karaoke Joe sound professional. Live is the true test. But even then technology now has live pitch correction.
Thanks Fil, this is very eye opening, for sure. Taking both videos and playing them side by side shows what is really happening. It is a very convincing analysis. Who do you think is most responsible for these altered recordings? Is it the artist or the producers? And why?
Haha. It's not the supposed 'producers' in this instance. Think about what you're saying. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 Explain, please.
@@geirmyrvagnes8718 I'm talking to the OP. Meanwhile look up what a producer, singular, is...
Enlighten me!@@thekeysman6760
@@thekeysman6760 enlighten me!
I saw him in 2019 and I totally felt it was live. Ready to hear your analysis. 😬
Uh, yeah. And we just heard at the end there how out of tune he was live. So the fact you "totally 'felt' it was live" was a lucky 'feel', yet if you couldn't hear how bad he was singing stick with 'feelings'. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 I saw him at a completely different venue and to be honest I can't even remember thinking at any point he was or may have been out of tune because it was live to my ear and I can forgive performances that may not be pitch perfect or in tune if they really truly are live. And how can I truly know what is actually live with all the wizardry that goes on. That's why I respect these analysis videos. So I think the word "felt" was appropriate. Thank you for your thoughts.
@@archiediggins641 Your question "And how can I truly know what is actually live with all the wizardry that goes on?" is a question and needed a question mark, and the answer from a sound-engineer of the last 30+ years is that you can't because _you_ can't hear it. Obviously. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 Good grief, your running rings round me now. Do you think Gary Numan sings live yes or no? And surely it's okay for me a humble fan, not to know what you know with your 30+ years as a sound-engineer. And thats a statement rather than a question.
@@archiediggins641 I don't "think" he sings live; I, and you if you watched the phone footage just now, _know_ he sings live! What are you talking about? And it sounded awful! Did you even get to the end of the video? I believe you will hear how awful his live singing was. You're/you are* running rings, not your meaning belonging to. I'm not, I'm trying to help a fellow human be universally understood in the future! 😂 🕊️
Gary has always being going on about androids and men-machines. I guess, now, he's finally become one of them.
Very well done, like always. It's nothing new though, it's been happening for years; the real live vocals replaced by another more ''perfect'' one, sometimes even the studio version. On youtube sometimes uploaders do it themselves, replacing a not pitch perfect vocal for a perfect one. A pity, i prefer emotion (live) over perfection.
I've seen Gary Numan perform LIVE before and he was sooo awesome!!! If I were him, I'd fire the production team! Thanks, Fil...ROCK!!! 💗💗💗
The word live doesn't need upper-case letters. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760. You're determined to respond to every comment, even when it makes no sense to do so?😂
@@Vita_Terra No. What are you talking about? That's nonsense you're writing.
@@Vita_Terra How is helping unity via proper communication making "no sense" to just you, please?
@@Vita_Terra If you look at " _every_ comment" you'll realise you made it up in your 'mind'. 😐
I saw him in March 2024, and he absolutely was not lip synching or singing along to prerecorded tracks. They really ought to leave well enough alone because he still sounds great, but we know how that goes these days.
The timing doesnt line up, that doesnt mean it's a different vocal track.
They could just have corrected the timing too afterward.
My first reaction as well.
Thank you Fil😊
As far as I'm aware, Numan has full control over his new releases....
Really excellent thorough analysis. Well done Fil.
I wonder whether the processing could be so heavy that they've shifted the timing of the notes too, which might account for the discrepancy. Is this plausible?
No.
I think his own people just betrayed him in the official release from the crowd shot footage .... Wow, if you can't trust your own team, who can you trust?
There is no 'team' - he mixes his own albums and knows exactly what he's faking.
Love Gary N voice always have, it so distinctive…just got better with age …..a great performer and wonderful song writer ….an absolute treasure
As a Numan fan in the earlier part of his career, I was expecting him to be covered on this channel because there has been since the 1990s chatter as to whether he's lip-synching.
He must have watched and knows it sounds much better than he performed it live.
Precisely!
I wonder if the timing and pitch are both being corrected. Melodyne, as far as I'm aware, can do both easily.
Form Gary's perspective, it makes sense why he'd not see the distinction if it's a "fixed" live vocal. "What I'm doing live is LIVE, but I want it cleaned up for official release instead of a 'warts and all' bootleg."
Most Numan fans with a brain have known for years that he sings live on the night but the released version is either re-sung or pitch corrected. And it's not just the vocal, it's laughably obvious that a lot of the music is re-recorded for the live release too.
Nobody is stabbing him in the back. He knows exactly what he's doing as he usually mixes his own albums or mixes them alongside someone else. So when he says, in the video, that he sings live and is proud of his own voice, why is he modifying his vocals for the mix? Because he's a liar.
If you want live, go to the show, but you wont be getting a true live release - the whole thing is remade. Fake.
Well with exceptions, and with no judgement, this is simply how many live recordings are handled. There's the bootleg when you hear people coughing or eating their snacks or planes going overhead... Then there's the "live" that borrows from perhaps numerous live performances or even custom studio do overs. If you're not there *live* it's never live anyway (the stereo isn't human), but any amount of processing could happen anywhere these days and often does. I just don't think live albums are for "liveness" (any more?) so much as a potentially live presentation or even just different orchestration. Not a declaration of good or bad... It's just an observation of how it is.
@@tttm99 @tttm99 @tttm99 Of course live albums are for liveness - that's the whole point. The only difference between a live recording and a bootleg is that there's a mixing desk at the venue to eradicate unwanted room acoustics and levelise the instruments. What we're talking about is Numan going in the studio and re-recording/replacing entire vocal and instrument parts, which is a whole new level of fakery.
Years ago, I saw someone discuss the post production of some sort of famous "live" album from the 70s - like a tv interview with the producer or the recording engineer or somesuch.
The argument was that the live recording tech was just not good enough at the time. And IIRC, they stated that they were only required to get the essential drums cleanly and the drummer needed to be in time... Everything else, they would replace later. If they failed to record the drums or the drummer screwed up, the "live" album would then be toast. Then the band would come in and re-record all of / most of / much of their parts from the live show, as needed.
I don't recall where I saw this interview (interview presumably from the 80s)- but I actually thought about how difficult it must be for the band to come in the studio and try to re-create the energy level from that concert and play perfectly in sync with it. I guess they did not have to worry about being captured on video then.
Funny how that interview affected the way I thought about a "live" recording all these years.
I'm glad that Gary was telling the truth. That makes me a bit happy.
Great work Fil! Another outstanding video!
Detective Fil again!! I hope he sees your video and gets his video fixed. He is over 60 but still doing live shows, some commenters say they have seen shows he did not sing live, without video I would trust Gary on that for now. I Hope you stay safe and healthy Fil.
Great video once again thanks Fil & way to go Gary
Take a look at Michelle Phillips eating a banana on Ed Sullivan in protest of lip synchronization.
Awesome
He did that already, October 23, 2024.
@@cindi1313 I know. It's worth a reminder of how far back all these fake presentations go.
The older cameras had an issue if a loud noise was picked up it would effect the video, on shows the camera is close they had to do it or the video would not be very good, on shows the cameras were a long distance from the stage they did it live. Midnight Special could do live shows, top of the pops couldn't.
@@badgerpa9 I grew up with American Bandstand! Even Lawrence Welk faked it.
Ive seen Gary Numan live a few times. My dad loves him. He was definately singing live. He seems like a really honest guy and has obviously been really detailed about what’s live and what’s not to add to the sound. I agree with you Fil that Numan had no idea they’ve edited him after the performance with pitch correction and going as far as replacing some of the vocal from some other random performance. I bet he’d be outraged because he’s genuine, he’s never made out he’s the best singer in the world and no one has ever tried to push that agenda.
Love Gary. Still have the 1st 3 albums on vinyl.
Hang on to them. If you want to stream his music you may find one day it has been altered to robot voice.
End of the day, Gary sings live. His video is enhanced so his fans get to hear the Gary Numan they want to hear, i.e. the best version. Everybody wins, nobody lies.
At least the fans on the night are getting a live vocal performance. Newman might not even be paying attention to RUclips and what his label or production team is releasing
I love Gary, and never miss a show!
Hi Fil, this all makes perfect sense. You pay to see the performer perform live - warts and all. With respect to Gary I am not sure that his live vocal would stand repeat listening - therefore they fix his live vocal with a subtle overdub from other live performances. This has been the way it has been done for classical ‘live’ performances for years - take the basic live performance and fix with redubs. Great work Fil, cheers Matt
YEs, DId Gary go back in and re-record his vocal for the video - ? they do it all the time for FILMS - Which I am OK with - cuz it sounds a lot better than the Live slurring mess - pretty sure they could not use the original vocals as ( cuz of age ) it would not match. (I prefer listening to a slurry mess during a live performance) Went back in and rerecorded his vocals - They might even have fixed a few of the synthesizer notes. Phil , you nailed it again.
Do you think that it’s possible that it is the same vocal from the night but that it’s just so edited that it ends up appearing like it could be a different one?
Possibly that mixed with the way the footage is edited on the official release.
No, as a trained sound-engineer I can hear it's not the same vocal edited. 🕊️
My guess is Gary knows about the vocal switching for the official release.
Good guess. Because if he doesn't know he's deaf! 😂
@@thekeysman6760Look, we get it. You don't like Gary Numan. You've sprinkled your negative comments all over this thread. Go get a life.
10 Sing live
20 Producers replace vocals
30 Get accused of miming
40 Deny claim
50 Goto 10
That's pretty basic....
@@JimGore LOL
Lesson: Gary needs to tighten up his syncing of his "corrected" audio with his video, lol.
That's a great explanation by Gary and it all makes perfect sense to me. While I don't go to a gig to hear the same sounds I hear on the recorded album, I understand what he's saying about using tech to recreate the songs as people recall them from the album. What Gary is NOT saying is that he uses Auto-Tune live and he's not mentioning pitch correction. Which is encouraging.
But, what does he mean by "pitch shifters"?
Pitch shifting is an effect that will layer another, wait for it, 'pitch-shifted' vocal of his live vocal. To get a harmony or harmonies next to his live vocal. Existed since the Eventide H910 Harmonizer from 1975.
@@thekeysman6760 I see. Thanks.
I see you're a Ron Tabak fan.
@@Vita_Terra No, I'm not. So the person liking your comment is wrong too. 🕊️
@@Vita_Terra I am, indeed. And, you are the first person in this space to recognize that!
It is common practice when an artist puts out a performance for DVD (or whatever format), the recording is done over multiple shows, then the best parts are edited together. Look at Van Halen’s, Right Here Right Now. Sammy Hagar’s outfit is changing back and forth throughout that show.
I wouldn't buy cheated crap like that!
This sounds like it's also been autotuned though, not just picking out the best parts.
Doesn't make it right. It is still a deception aimed at their own audience which has no excuse when you are any kind of artist (music, paint, sculpture, poetry, etc). It is just a matter of time, with other like Fil doing this now, that all artists during this era will be called out for not being genuine with proof readily available. Gary is true by what we have seen and if so, he should be finding the person involved and publicly stating who altered his music. That's what I would be telling him if I was his manager or anyone's manager at this time. Taking the best nose from all of a particular model's face shots and then the mouth, eyes, lashes, etc, etc and put them in one face shot, that is no longer the original person and in no way could visually represent them. My opinion of course.
That one made my head spin!
Gary was so brilliant and innovative that I hope what he says about himself is true. The first time I heard him I knew he was different. A true musical genius.
Plus the music industry is soooo corrupt.
I've seen him live a few times and always enjoyed it. Im pretty sure he's admitted years ago to re doing vocals on live releases. This is why I guess it takes so long for his live albums to come out, such as the Wembury show that was in 2022, still nothing.
Even back in the 70's, in the heyday of the "live" album, most of these were extensively reworked with studio overdubs, not only of the vocals, but of the instruments as well. So this isn't a new thing. Neil Young even once released a "liver" version of a previously-released "live" album, which I think still had some overdubs. I'm on the fence about this, even in situations where the overdubs weren't initially disclosed. On the one hand, it's "fraudulent." But on the other, they put some absolutely classic albums together like this, that married the energy and spontaneity of a live performance with the accuracy of a studio recording. The results were frequently better than the studio versions of the songs. I get it that this is different from the heavy AutoTuning, or even pasting an entirely different performance (like this here), that's done today. But's it's not entirely distinct either.
70s*, no apostrophe saying 70 is. Live means what it means and needs no punctuation, let alone incorrectly quoting nobody at all. 'Live' in inverted commas would imply so-called or supposedly, and can be used sarcastically. 🕊️
@@EmmanuelGoldstein3 exactly right. On the eclaimed Seconds Out live Genesis album, Phil is even harmonising with himself on some tracks. I assume they took off the poor backing vocals from Tony and Mike, and got Phil to replace them in the Studio.
Having the word “Alive” in the album title admits the music may or may not be actually a “live” album.
@@rogereverett4467Please can you explain how you got to that assumption?
@@rogereverett4467 Your penultimate word live means what it means and needs no punctuation, let alone incorrectly quoting nobody at all. 'Live' in inverted commas implying so-called or supposedly. 🕊️
Not the first Male Singer to do the Mili Vanilli act. Some even used body double with dim stage lighting.
My only question is how can so many artists be so unaware of what is being done to their fully live voice, whether on an officially released live performance on RUclips or, even more incomprehensible, released as a box set of live performances from a venue like Royal Albert Hall.
I don't know how much control Gary Numan has over what happens to his voice once his fully live performances get officially uploaded to RUclips but I do know that Bryan Adams is in so complete control over every single aspect of his career to the point where he has his own record label and, apparently, radio station. Somehow or other, I'm going to try to get some answers from Bryan, indirectly, about all this and encourage his involvement in Fil's side project.
Your 'only question' needs a question mark, and they aren't 'unaware', no. 🕊️
@@thekeysman6760 What does Gary mean by "pitch shifter"?
@@elizabethmiller7291 Something like the Eventide H910 Harmonizer from 1975.
A lot of performers don't like watching themselves or listening back to their own vocals, specially if it's a live performance where they know they've made some kind of mistake they can't take back.
I could absolutely believe that in this case Gary has maybe half watched this video once at most, was like, "Yeah, that sounds fine. You can put that out," and never thought about it again.
@@wendyheatherwood Yeah, but artists must be aware of the music industry standard use of pitch correction and how its use can make a great singer's voice sound bad. That's what I'm really talking about. I mean, it can't be just those of us who follow WoP who know what's going on, right?
He does indeed sing live, I went to three shows on this tour.
I also went to the shows with an orchestra, and again, he had live vox.
I think this is definitely a case of "extreme post-production editing"
Did he know at the time?
I'm not sure, I'm thinking he will now.?
Can I find my DVD from the tour to watch/listen and find out a bit more?
Nope!
I guess it's kinda like how Pink Floyd edited out some of Guys solos from The Division Bell reissue...
It's now not the live show it should be.
Unless the artists themselves have total control over all aspects of their performance, it's going to be tampered with. That's my opinion.
I wonder if he knows about this. It would explain why people accuse him of miming.
I have been going to see Numan since 83 and have racked up more than a 100 shows.. On the night he really does not mime. He makes plenty of fluff ups, forgetting words, missing coming in now and again and the occasional laugh at the crowd that gives me no doubt he is singing live. He also has some nights where he is terrible while others are incredible.
I know for a fact he records vocals to 'correct' the live sound if he is releasing it. This never used to be the case, this seems to have started around 15 ago so years ago. Further more he makes no secret of this. I have read in blogs of his that so and so night was recorded but he is redoing some vocals as he is not happy with them, I was a subscriber on his last album 'Intruder' where he let us see at various stages how the album was taking shape and on one of those he said referenced rerecording a 'live' vocal and there was even a snippet of it and it was recorded in his own studio. Personally I would rather he didn't but I don't call him as he makes no secret of it.
Regarding his statement of how he deals with his vocals on stage, I see him thinking the miming accusations were levelled at his actual shows rather than his released 'live' material.
The irritating thing about Numan is his constant belittlement of his own voice. He is always calling it down. Granted he is no Freddy Mercury but has a unique voice which is very distinctive that you can never confuse with someone else and that I guess is his motivation to 'fix' his live stuff before he releases it. I would rather the warts 'n all version but I know why he does it
Seen him twice and he has a voice!
Yeah. We heard how bad it is near the end.
Saw him in Detroit on the Intruder tour. Stood 10 feet away from him in a small club. He was definitely NOT miming.
Having said that, I believe Savage Live at Brixton Academy has the vocals replaced directly from the original album. They’re just too perfect.
Hey, Fil... you're in the minds of some big names... Steve Lukather just shouted you out in Rick Beato's latest interview - right near the end of the video.
Another great job from Fil. After months of these videos I now have become completely cynical of live performances. However, i dont think it will change the entertainment industry too much. I think the begrudgement stems from the high price of tickets for star acts to find they are augmenting their performances and not earning their dues with what we think we were paying for. I imagine this fakery will only get more prevalent if we are stupid enough to pacify this trend. 😢
Just curious why you only showed 1 or 2 examples that were out of sync? I would think this whole show would be filled with them?
Ok I have a fix. Let's petition "the Don" to issue a new edict banning all use of auto tune or pitch correction in any music. Takers? Yeah I thought so. I'm on it
Maybe he sings live in concert, knowing it will be “ produced “ after ?
I’m wondering if someone has a scam going on all of these auto tuned releases. Who gets paid to do this to a song, and who does the paying?
Long time Numan fan here - he re-records for live releases where required. Pretty sure he has done for a long time. Not just vocals either. Probably why I prefer listening to decent quality bootlegs! That said, I did see 1 show of his in the 00s where I could hear a main vocal after he stepped back from the mic on part of 1 song. But yeah - he's aware all right. :)
Cars is one of those songs to me that is a studio work of art that I love, but not so great live. As for altering the official video, it wouldn't surprise me that Gary (and many other artists) has no idea what goes on with producing the video. Most likely young tech geeks utilizing the tricks they've learned to 'clean up' a live performance. Certainly not knowing, or caring, that anyone would ever notice what they've done.
Melodyne can move and stretch notes in time as well as pitch, so it’s possible his timing was moved toward the grid in post. Live vocal was so sloppy though that I’m not sure whether it’s the same take.
It's definitely not the same take. But then I'm paid for my ears, so it's easy for me to know. 🕊️
So, if the autotuned audio was ahead of the actual live recording, and the autotuned vocal was BEHIND (in timing) his head drop at the mic when he sang "in cars," (5:16) wouldn't that mean the head drop would come even SOONER than the actual live vocal of "in cars"?
He must do a vocal recorded so the videos have a studio vocal for internet use. He must know or why record it...?? yes he sings live , but has done a studio version for advertising.
False advertising. And, advertising that actually makes it sound bad, not better! Ridiculous.
What are you talking about? 😂 "Studio vocal for internet use"?
They might've just time aligned the voice without doing a complete replacement.
I liked his song Cars
If a vocal is bad, it's been common practice for the past 30+ years to overdub and replace the original. Is it right or ethical? That's a different conversation altogether.
Does Gary still have a Douglas Harvard..??
The AT-6 was made by North American.
Couldn't AI correct the timing by learning from previous releases whether live or studio.. He obviously sings live, but perhaps doesn't mind what anyone might do with any public digital release
couldnt the engineers use the live vocals, and tweak them and fine tune them for the video release? Are you SURE its an entirely different vocal from a different show?
If your the artist, think twice before you ask security to stop that fan from recording. That crowd shot footage might just save you from your own production company.🤣
My educated guess would be Gary Numan knows exactly what is going on. 😎
I've seen him live twice now and I don't care. His voice is not to everyone's cup of tea and his stage act is pretty hammy BUT we go there to see him and soak in the atmosphere. The audience at a Numan concert is just a massive crowd of mainly older people but you do see younger ones as well just having a bloody good time. Also the thing about him is he is known for being honest sometimes to his detriment and if he was "lipsinking" he'd admit it. I'm glad you have managed to clear up the confusion about his vocals. Sadly too many people just like thinking the worse about him so they won't be convinced.
I've loved Gary Numan since 1979. The music industry is evil and anti-human. I hope Gary isn't OK with this.
I wonder if they do that for copyright tracking
Shouldn't need to, but I understand your logic.