Can Kemper Save Chappers? (Part 2)
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- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2024
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I think it's safe to say that once it gets to a point where you have to sit down and listen to chords, feedback and note decay, trying to discern barely perceptible differences in the atoms of the soundwaves traveling in the air, then any differences are so small that it doesn't matter any more.
Exactly!
Fully agree - and you'll probably hear more difference between two of the same amps eg 2 x AC30's, JCM800's etc.
***** My point was that if you have to sit there for 30 minutes A B testing sounds and even after all that time you're still not sure whether or not you hear a difference, then I would say the sound is good enough. When you play a song live or even listen to a record, you don't sit there listening to the same chord for 50 minutes. If you can't hear a clear difference right off the bat, then any differences that are there are so small that they are insignificant.
You know what's even safer to say?
Once the band knows how to write good material and how to put an awesome show, no one will care if the guitar tone is "too digital"
@Samir. Huh? Your responding to the 2nd of 2 videos, where Chappers and the Capt BOTH couldn't tell the difference in tone, or feel.
I can feel Lee's soul just dying throughout this while video
#SaveTheCaptainsSoul
Rip
Ha ha - you're not wrong!!
Nobody is going to buy all those tube amps sitting in the warehouse now Captain ! ;) ........ time for a half-price sale !!!!! .... :) .... We still love you Captain ........ even if you can't ...really .... tell the difference.
_Way....too.....soon_. Until this market substantially gets cheaper, the vast majority meat and potatoes consumer will still opt for the much easier to use amp. Amps aren't going anywhere for a very long time.
When I finally played thru a Kemper I had the SAME reaction as Lee Anderton. Exactly the same. I couldn't believe it. I seriously questioned my hearing / sanity. I'm a sound engineer. Been doing recording and live sound engineering for 25+yrs...
Maybe the gear wars are FINALLY over. After all, is it about the music... the ART you create? Or is it about the label on the gear you're playing thru ?? Maybe we've all been distracted from this great truth for awhile now. I know I was. I'm 50yrs old and I have been playing and working in the music business 35+ yrs. I have been chasing tone for my entire 35+ yrs career. I was forever unhappy with my tone and equipment. I kept thinking "If I only had this or that cool piece of gear. Or that vintage strat thru a 60's Marshall Plexi... or that old 50's Les Paul thru a vintage Fender tweed". Its not me that sux... its my gear !! I WASTED soooo much time ... designing / building guitar rigs instead of practicing. I used my lack of expensive vintage equipment as an excuse for my poor playing/ lack of tone.
6 days ago I bought a Kemper and it has been a revelation for me and already its making me a better player !! I love to practice now. Hell, the first night I played for 6 hours straight !! The calluses are back baby ! I could hammer nails with my fingertips ! AND now I'm not distracted anymore by my constant obsessive thoughts of the deficiencies in my guitar tone / rig. If my playing or tone sux I can't blame my gear anymore !! HAH !!
Change is tough. Its hard to re-tool. We get used to the tools we use. Maybe finally we will ALL have the same tools in our "toolbox" so we can stop judging one another's art based on the tools we use to create it, but instead on it's artistic merit.
Les Paul, Jimi Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen all have some things in common. They all embraced the newest technologies and exploited and pushed them to their limits to get their own sound. As an example, Hendrix wasn't digging up 40 year old guitars and amps to get his sound. He found his sound using a new strat into new fx pedals made by Roger Mayer and a new Univox Univibe and the newest Marshalls recording using 16 tracks (a first in recording studios) . Had he lived into the 80's and 90's he would have continued that practice of pushing himself and pushing the boundaries of his gear.... OR he would have probably stagnated. Maybe that's why some of my heroes (who lived long enough) did stagnate.... they stopped pushing the boundaries of their gear..I consider myself an artist. And as an artist my art's legitimacy and quality isn't determined by what type of wood I used for the canvas frame. It's what's on the canvas that matters. I'm saddened by the implications of Kempers towards amp builders. But I'm excited and energized by the ENDLESS possibilities that Kempers will allow. I feel like a teenager again. Excited by the limitless possibilities! It's freedom. :{)-)--( If you haven't played thru one ... DO IT !! It will change you as a musician (hopefully as an artist) for the better...
Joe Cool Hi Joe , that's the best comment re Kemper I've ever read . Thank you . I'm a pro player and like you have chased tone for years .... You've convinced me to go and try one out for myself and stop listening to the nay sayers ...rock on ! Thanks Gary
You just sold me a kemper. Contact them for your commission check. I'm trading in my twin reverb tonight.
Joe lolz, Hendrix prolly smashed and burnt as many as he played ... maybe the smashing hate has finally ended?
I think you'd like the Vlogs from the guy at 5 watt world. Makes you really think.
True!
another great test. slightly tainted by the fact i had to mic two different cabs (with different speaker ages) This was to reduce the amount of waiting time between amp and kemper so the guys still had a clear tonal picture in their mind as they moved between amps.
In the room the test made loads more sense, but i suppose to all those watching on YT it is a little different. Still loads of fun! and i fully intend to make some profiles when i get myself a kemper at some point!
if you see this quick question. straight to kemper or build a small collection first. cause i hear you can get settings from people online to be able to get the tones of real amps. ive heard there are also presets on them that dont necessarily mimic any particular amp but sound good anyways.
also an idea to present to rob would be axefx vs kemper.
and also maybe try and find a budget alternative? like take a kemper and or axefx dial in settings to have to sound like another amp, then see if any cheaper modeling amps can do it as well. some may lack some of the more advanced features but there might be a few capable of at least doing a decent enough job on a budget to be worth it for a home player or a budget gig set up.
You should probably be aware that RUclips is putting adverts for other online music vendors under this video (at least in the US). PM me if you want a screenshot (I took one).
Oh, and great video, btw. Now I have to figure out what I can sell in order to afford one of these.
oh i think they fucking know, thats how they make money on youtube
Rabea Massaad Rob is so honest in his opinions and Lee is really struggling to come to terms with it like in part 1. This was so entertaining, helpful, and fun to listen to. Nice work and I'm a huge fan of your playing!
I love Lee trying to argue that he could tell the difference at the end when throughout the WHOLE video he'd been saying he couldn't. It's okay Captain, we still respect you, even if you can't tell amps apart :P
Yep. =]
Yeah :). He's not wrong but flipping a coin would have given a better overall score (on average)
I could definitely feel "something" just unfamiliar about the Kemper Morgan profile - i just didn't want to say anything until after the reveal as I'd already made a dick of myself on the previous 3 amps!! It's so close though - too close for anyone other than the most demanding & tone sensitive players out there.
I think even if you could tell in that situation i.e. solo guitar with no other instruments in a mix or with live band and also in a room you know exceedingly well. All which could easily overule your perception of the sound. Now put things 10 years in the future, when the amount of processing and technology that it takes to do a Kemper amp now will be as easy and cheap enough to go into your $200 amp and have all the controls look like it's an old vintage amp. It will go that way.
Paul Hodgkinson
There was absolutely a difference in the sound between the two (though the difference seemed less significant through the room mic than it did through the cab mics), the difficulty is telling which is which. Even as someone not experienced much with studio work I could tell the difference quite clearly between the two, but I would have absolutely no idea which was which. I must agree, though, the Captain indeed has earned his title.
Just the fact that they cant tell straight away which is which is a huge win for Kemper. Mighty impressed with that thing. Downside is I'll have to sell both kidneys to get one...
Lucky bastard, I need to sell three kidneys to afford it.
+ildur
Is that the official payment plan?
Um, they really cost as much or less than a high-end valve amp.
yeah, but if count the number of amps that you get with kemper its way cheaper than buying 30 tube amps, specially if you have a studio, I bought mine for the same price of a dual rectifier in Brazilian's prices (which is not cheap)
it's more affordable than most amps though...an evh mark iii is more expensive e.g.
I remember having a conversation with a photographer about 15 years ago. He was absolutely adamant that digital photography would never take over from film. He said I was crazy for even suggesting such a thing. 15 years on, there is a whole generation of people who have no idea what film even is! Or cassettes. Or even CDs! My point is, you are absolutely crazy if you don't think digital technology is going to eventually relegate your old tube amps to museum pieces!
Well idk about that because digital is based on tube amp's without them there would be no digital to copy them all they are is copy's of real amp's
john smith I get that the original tube amps were what was copied with digital simulation but film was also copied by digital cameras...We don't need any more amps to copy. We have loads of those already.
@@johnsmith-oh2xo well, kinda. That is true to most modelers, and all profilers, but only because we're in a transition period. There are already successful modelers that don't model real amps. Just to name a few, the axe fx has at least one model that is not based on a real amp, the ignite amps emissary does have a real amp counterpart... that was only made after the vst. Neither of the 4 models in the aurora DSP rhino are based on real amps.
So, basically we mostly copy real amps because real amps are already famous, and there are way more people who know how to design real amps than amp models. Once that stops being true, there isn't much need for real amps besides history. We can even start using our profilers to profile models (that already happens, plenty of the neural DSP stuff has been profiled by both Kemper and the quad cortex).
@@iurigrang Yeah well i guess i'm just old fashioned i just love my tube amp's and i love my solid state hybrid Marshall Valve state 100v i really don't care for amp modeling other than when i use Amplitube on my computer but they still don't sound like the real thing as i have a few tube amp's lol maybe more than i few but i'm not saying they sound bad just not as good to my ear maybe my ear is wrong but i don't think so......
I love that once the Captain knows he got 1 right then he magically noticed all sorts of amazing details in the differencs between the two.
People hate being wrong and cling to their biases. Seems like they should just by the damn thing and be happy.
To avoid confusion about "our right/left versus your right/left", I think you guys should use "clock side" and "cock side".
Or have numbers on the cabs or something.
Then you're not watching the right video.
MrGreenYeti It needs a break from time to time.
My cock or their cock?
yeah... or cab A and cab B
I dunno...seeing Lee go into a long and ridiculous explanation (around the 25:00 mark) about why he just "felt" he got it right with the Morgan was a little painful. Just admit that you "flipped the coin" and guessed, man! :-D
Well, I wouldn't go that far. It is hard to let go of preconceptions...he's just grasping at any little thing to save all his years of valve-ism (it's like a religious man clinging to the last strands of his faith... :-D ).
Let's say it's impossible to really tell which is the real amp and which is the Kemper (best case scenario for Kemper). In that case, they should be correct 50% of the time on average. It would actually be weird if they didn't get anything right at all. So I don't think Lee should celebrate that one lucky guess :D
Yeah. Why didn't he say any of that stuf before finding out? Love Lee anyway so not going to be too harsh :D
mcasey1
I kind of feel sorry for him, he seems to be in denial :D
Kemper is great. But I definitely hear the same like Lee. Kemper had a way more openness in the hi end. Kemper has a lack of compression. If you don't hear it it doesn't mean there is no difference. I can hear the difference because I mixed tons of songs because I'm a pro mixing engineer with more than 10 years in the industry. But who cares. Just play music and find your own great tone. Kemper is great for this as good as a tube amp. Chears.
Dear Captain,
DENIAL AIN'T JUST A RIVER IN EGYPT!
I'd love to know what Cap thinks he's listening for... its like hes waiting for the Kemper to literally speak and say "im Digital"
The only reason I wouldn't buy a kemper is the option paralysis i get.
tooootally agreed!
The problem for me is even when i have the sound i love, i am going to tweak that amp everytime.
That's why my Micro terror is my favourite amp
Precisely the problem.
That and the price tbh
+
Bobby cooked me 2 burgers yesterday, one was cooked with butane, one with propane... and I prefered the butane cooked one. I have been awake for 48 hours.
Lee, thank you so much for these 2 videos. Despite the controversy for some people, regarding the Morgan amp test, you did something very usefull, for every musician, out there. It will be very helpfull for the touring guitarists, to know they can tour with just one amp.
Your content is always much appreciated.
Thank you, and thanks to all the lads that are part of the Anderton's team.
But somebody like Eric Johnson still hauls around all those old amps, and gear that he has used for years. he could condense his stuff and most likely no one would even hear a difference.
The only thing you have to consider is that the Kemper is profiling valve amps. Valve amps create the sound, compression and feel that we all love. Kemper just takes the great original and makes it portable, repeatable, etc. I think it is not either or...it is AND.
Brandon Cuevas It certainly beats having to own a ton of valve amps.
Except they can use the digital schemes they get to make entirely new amps that sound better, and then there's no point in making valve amps anymore.
I'm on the same road that you. Buying amps for creating sounds, profiling for giging.
Well said!
The only controversy with the kemper is that it is basically the amp-equivalent to the CD-Burner.
If you use it to take copies of your precious originals on the road with you, that's fantastic.
But there will be a lot of people who will only have copies (they get for free). So less amp manufacturers get paid and eventually less great amps will be made.
try to get that into the head of a kemper owner. its a profiler not a guitar amp.
I also thought of this yesterday. I think the next step for the amp manufacturers will be to make a copy protection into their amp, just as the CD/DVD people did.
I'm a Kemper owner and I realise that the tones you have are snapshots and some work better for your tastes than others and you are stuck like that unless you profile amps yourself.
JHoermann: maybe the digital amplifier makers can do that, but I think profiling simple analog amps won't present any issues, as tone is preferential and cannot be patented nor copyrighted. Circuit designs? Yes, but actual sound tones? No.
I think of a small chip inside of the amp that prevents the profiling.
I got them both wrong again... If you do a part 3, pls do an EVH 5150III
I think they should do something like a silverface twin
and maybe dual reacto or other high gain amp would be very cool!
They might as well do a Mesa Boogie Trirec too.
Please guys, do it for us metal heads
Would be nice if they thought of us, the low end brethren. I'd really like to see the Kemper take on, for example, an old cranked SVT or Sunn 2000S. I love my SVT 2 Pro to death but it weighs 75 lbs or something like that, and costs about as much to revalve as a small nation's GDP.
But without valve amps, there's nothing to profile
I'm two years late, but I'm going to have to disagree. I had this opinion a while ago, but the Axe FX's "FAS Modern" amp model throws that out the window. It's meant to sound like the "ideal modern metal tone", not any particular amp. Fractal isn't the first to do something like this, and I can easily see it happening more and more in the future.
people have already modeled the amps
You go and buy that $40,000 amp model it and I’ll pay you $10 for the profile and own it and 50 others at the same time... soon the day will come, if it hasn’t already, where these things will sound better than tube amps, I think that has already happened, when you listen to zero noise floor with that tone you notice you have 10 times more dynamic range than any tube could ever hope to achieve...
You don't need an actual amp. You can profile individual component such as valves, caps, transformers etc, and the build an amp profile using those components. This is how some of the latest generation of modelers work (not the kemper but others).
Are you fucking stupid? No one's saying to eliminate all valve amps. It's about bringing something on tour. Did you literally miss the entire point?
This video, with the right context explanation, should be watched and studied in most MBA classes as a great case. It brings many lessons related to marketing, positioning, customer engagement, trasparent communications and value for customers, and fun
(Captain finally gets one correct): "Welllllll there was just this reallllyyyy subtle frequency that most people would probably never hear and that gave it away..."
LOL
Love the videos guys! Keep em coming!
Cheers
I love the editing on your videos. Always has me laughing. We notice you, editor.
I can accurately tell, with 50% chance, if someone is a man or a woman, just by reading a written text.
That skill isn’t very useful in the comments on this channel lol
Yep that's right, everyone can do that haha
DID YOU JUST ASUME MY GENDER?!?
Wow, yours is low
@@squidwardstesticles5914 I can tell you're a girl...
I love how the Capt was trying to save his point at the end hahaha I'm sorry... This is F... amazing!!
Before the reveal of the second round, the Captain was exasperated by
his inability to tell the amps apart. Upon hearing he guessed
correctly, he gives an advanced placement lecture on acoustical
engineering.
It's like with an old guitar. It doesn't have to sound any better than a new one, but it's the history you hold in your hands that gives you the extra inspiration. So people will always buy Valve amps just because they will inspire them differently. Still, this is pretty impressive.
Lee's explanation at 25:00 sounds like the april fools 'something else' video lol
Lets all welcome Kemper us our new amp overlords and be done with it .
its a amplifier or a pre amp, depending on witch one you buy. but its not a guitar amp, you cant buy a kemper and say ooh im going to use kemper clean amd and then go to kemper od 1 and start to tweak the gain and eq on my kemper amp, no you need those dam snapshots of real amps that were engineered and built by guitar amp companies that spent amny years and mony into their designs. kemper is just a device that let you steal another amp.
You might want to look at how many amps used, in your eyes stole, copies of other circuits or very similar ones.
You can just download presets of amps you want from online.
24:31 Captain: "There was a spectrum of high end...", Rob´s face looks like c´mon, don´t bullshit me.
Well done on these Kemper videos guys! What I take from this video is that valve amps will not die out, we can still all collect a sweet collection of amps at home, well kept and pristine, not thrown around in cases, in the back of the van or car. We can all head out to our gigs with ALL of those amps in tow, plug straight into FOH, throw as much back into our ears as we want, not have to annoy the tech on the night, not have to worry about tubes cracking, power bias, humidity, spread. Chappers you are a Gentleman and an inspiration. Lee, you humanised the sweet sadness of the constantly changing realities that innovation brings to the music industry. Kemper have their place on the road, but in my opinion when creating and pushing for "that" sound in "that" room in "that" mood for "that" song, there will never be anything but the real deal. Props to Rabea and Pete for doing a fantastic job profiling the amps.
This is BRILLIANT! I've paused it at 4 mins 20 and messaged other people to watch this after the bombshell was dropped yesterday. I actually said 'history was made' to mates and the Captain just repeated that just now! Right...on with the show! This is the best thing since the O.J. trial :-)
Yet another kick in the balls of the valve amp market...
God this hurts... but Kemper did an awesome job, give them that
yeah its not like anyone can afford them that is not rolling in the dough. in my country there is about 3 kemper owners that I know off. most people here cant even afford solidstate amps. and its not that worst country, South Africa.
+Ettienne Groenewald I understand. I'm from Bosnia and the solid state market is huge because people can't afford valve. I know of 10 at most valve amp owners. I'm just saying that Kemper gave the valve market the deadly punch in the balls. Only thing now is to make the Kemper cheaper and there will come a time where emulations that sound like this are way more cheaper than valve amps. Then...
When it comes to modeling, it's not just the amps that are being modeled, but the effects and speakers as well. Instead of going to the store to try out new pedals and speaker cabinets, one can just download models for just the cost of the modeler.
Captain didn't have a clue guessed... then when it was revealed he guessed right on a fluke he starts waffling bullshit about how he was right, and Chappers knew it was bullshit lets be honest lolz xD
He undermined his own argument. He got them all wrong. So he didn't perform like a fair coin would. He was biased.
Then when he gets a result that makes him perform more like a coin flip, he takes that as an example he can hear the difference. That's backwards.
If you listen to amps that are supposed to sound identical, and you aren't wrong or right 50% of the time, the amps don't sound identical, or it is a fluke of chance.
It's like you saying you can throw heads 100% of the time. Then you throw tails 100% of the time, and you conclude you cannot influence the outcome of the result.
It's like claiming you have a biased coin that always comes heads. You throw it 6 times, and it comes tails every time. You conclude, it must be a fair coin. Then you try once more and it lands heads. Then you conclude: "Indeed, it is a biased coin! It got us tails!" when in fact that tails results indicates the coin is less biased than you thought.
Thank you! finally someone gets it!
Chappers lets out a big old sigh once capn starts lolol
Part 2 was great. And indeed, this is probably the most revelatory guitar gear video, answering the ever-lingering question of sim-vs-amps once and for all. 2 people x 4 guess, and the kemper came up ahead 7 to 1. Just incredible.
Thank you for your services gentlemen, I salute you!
While this video had zero relevance to me - I'm not in the market for a massive amp head, nor do I need a model of every amp ever built - these videos were SO entertaining and very educational. Good job guys!
It would be interesting to see how the signal of both amplifiers compares using a spectrum analyzer.
That would be interesting but it wouldn't show what you are hearing because the human ear creates its own resultant tones that won't be shown by the spectrum analyzer.
Right. But I didn't mean for that to be interpreted by someone's hearing. I meant to be analyzed and try to see if signal wise they are the same frequencies.
pretty similar is expect, and that's probably how they do the profiling!
that's at least how the Bias Amp Matching works
TMmodify The
Lee justifying his successful decision with all that detail when really it had boiled down to a guess :)
Great two vids you guys. An honest opinion to the masses.....not just sales pitch.....much appreciated. Also....a massive thumbs up to the two gentlemen behind the camera that spent an age setting it all up.....well done you two.
I agree with the captain best couple of videos ever in terms of 'jaw to the floor' and I totally get why you redid the test with a different set up. My comment to my mate a work after the first vid was"good vid but I think there ended up being a couple of gremlins and red herrings in the test which influenced the outcome a bit" but part 2 ironed them all out and still got the same result. Awesome vid guys, laughed my ass off at Lee's reaction to the Morgan reveal and blew my mind with the outcome.
Episode brought to you by, "Try my hardest to reclaim my biases.""
That's a great nickname mate 😀
this is what happened with synths too. people still use and sometimes prefer analogue, but you CAN accurately model something these days. just look at all the pro studios- they're all using vsts of their favourite desk compressors. the only sad thing about IR is that it relies purely on modeling old amps. it would be great if they opened up to software to let people make their own sounds from scratch and really get whacky with it!
These videos have been great! I was on the fence about all this but now it has become clear to me that Kemper is the future.
You two are well-founded sources of information and the very best entertainment in the most positive sense!
It's a pity we don't have a video of Lee testing his first mobile phone :)
Would like to see this done with bass amps, perhaps one for the Andertons channel?
yeess i want it too
that would be awesome.
Two wonderful videos.
You can just see The Captain dying a little with each note and Rob just dying laughing because of The Captain and knowing his touring life just became easier and lighter.
I love you guys, you massive nerds!!!! love to see people so passionate about what they love!! Keep this kind of stuff coming! (i know it's a year old now!)
Kemper did all you thought it did. You were lucky and you are rationalizing being right after the fact.
This one could've been called "Can Kemper save the Captain" lol
25:01 Lee really knows his stuff, I heard that lack of natural compression as well that can easily be a pro for the Kemper's dynamics to be honest.
Brilliant, boys! Both of these Kemper videos were fascinating. I'm glad that you were both big enough to call it straight. As Lee said, the future is digital. But wow, it's awesome to know that you aren't giving anything up in the process!
Could we have a kemper lesson, how easy are they to profile? Do they need a separate power amp? What is different about them to say an axfx or a helix?
You can buy a pre+power amp version or just a pre amp version (both version also exist in rack). It doesn't seems like there's much of a difference with the Helix from line 6 or the Axe FX system, i guest the biggest difference will be in the ease of use and the quality of the sound modelling which is why it might be very interesting for them to do a head to head comparison of those product to see how good each modelling system can get to that point where you can only guess which is which.
I'd say that Kemper and Axe FX are definitely in the same league. Helix is probably a tiny step behind in terms of amp sounds, but it's a step ahead in delays and what not. And I don't think you can profile your own amps.
The big "snag" with this kind of products is that they're only going to be as good as your ability to get them there. If you're expecting to be able to plug in and get a sound, you're gonna be disappointed. Rabea took an hour to make these sound good. You need to put that kind of time in.
You don't need to put in the time.you simply purchase amp profiles such as this exact one rabea and company made. Boom, done.
Thank you all. Just like Colombo I have one last question, to profile an amp myself (not purchase someone else's) do I need the amp, I'd really like to see the process, do I mic up the amp and the kemper listens and figures it out or how does it work?
Basically, yes.
You plug the Kemper into the amp, it plays a bunch of frequencies through the amp, and listens.
If you just search on RUclips you'll find it.
You guys should do a Kemper vs AxeFX video
I do sound for a band on kempers and i toured an axe fx for a couple years as a player with an axe fx II. I'll tell you straight up that it just depends on who you are. If youre the kind of person that likes to sit in a room and obsesses about every little detail to really nail it, and/or you use a ton of effects, the axe fx can do more and is more flexible. If you just wanna have an amp that sounds great through a pa then the kemper is way easier to get there. I've heard Axe FX's sound absolutely incredible, i just think guitar-cable-amp the average person can get there with a lot less time/effort on a kemper.
@@cmmiller711 "obsesses about every little detail to really nail it" is the sense of "realistc amp+cabs+fxs modeling and THAT specific tone nailing". Devil is in the details! For sitting and just playing... even an old red Pod is good!
Because 100% identical can be more than 100% identical?
These two Videos are one of the several that finally sold me on the Kemper.
You made a HUGE point around 1:25. By the time you listen to the mix down after all the processing and mastering that goes on, it would be difficult to tell the difference of whether it's an amp, plugin, or something like the Kemper.
But now, because of you guys, I'm considering buying the Kemper for my studio!
surely a good way to test this would be to record a DI guitar track and play it through both the kemper and the amp its modelling. That way its the exact same performance and therefore easier to tell differences in tone.
The main problem with profiling historically has been latency. Using a DI may sound identical but if there is a latency issue it is unplayable.
I meant Re-amp into both amps and compare the difference
There's also dynamics of playing that can give away modelling vs. valve amps. Letting them tweak the guitar volume etc. gives them at least a chance to figure it out.
+
The only problem with that is that the Kemper is not really a modeling amp. You make the profile and if the person knows what they are doing you really cannot tell the difference. I've got a Kemper with the power amp and some people out there on the Kemper Forum are making some killer profiles of amps the average could never afford. Fumble Silver something comes to mind, it a $90,000 amp
Rory, please lower the intros and outros by 10dB.
This is the funniest or most amusing video to watch the Captain strive for Tube goodness so he can sleep at night. Game on gentlemen. Thank you for the videos from the other side of the pond.
As a Kemper owner, I can honestly say I'm happy that you guys are giving such credit to the Profiler. And I'm sure Kemper is too.
Pleeease make a part 3 with a fullrange cab ... where you compare the full simulation with cab through the full range cab to a real miced cab pleeease guys ^^ the cab sim is ultra important :)
the kemper and the jcm800 sounded so different, but i thought for sure the kemper was the marshall. weird. it had more of that raspy marshally presence.
WOW! Even better than the first video, mega entertainment regardless of the Kemper issue. I must admit I'm convinced! Great video :-D
Dear mr. video editor. You get my vote to win all the emmys and oscars (and bafta's) for 'best editing in any genre'. Absolutely brilliant!
Oh. Just saw the end. Mr. video editor = Rory. Well done!
next vid tubes vs valves
they are the same thing
Shit. I sold my Kemper a few years ago back when the difference was noticeable.. bad idea.
Rip
i think personal satisfaction matter most ... kemper may be good but if you are happy with your rig then i think that matter most ... we are in a world where other opinion matter nowdays :( someone may post a video on how kemper would sound as good as real amp .. our opinion change just like it ... :D but if some one gave ma expensive amp and modeler .. i think i would stick with a real tube amp :D though i cant never buy both of it ..:D :D
Dig it. I will stick with my Marshalls and when I pass my son will get them... Valves rule IMO. I just don't like carting the lot around at 3am lol. Great vid, Thanks guyz
Yeah that's the thing. My valve rig is awesome but lugging it around seriously blows.
Wait a minute, do they update? Seems like a bad idea if you've reached a tone you like...
I have an older Kemper and I do love it. The best uses I've heard for a Kemper is what Rob experienced, or if you own vintage amps and don't want to risk them. I play bass through mine. I can no longer move the massive Ampeg set-up. My Dr. actually told me not to even use my ultra lightweight Markbass set-up. The Kemper has extended my music career, but if I could still run my Ampeg, the Kemper would stay in the studio!
One thing missing in these shoot outs is the jamming. I think instead of just sitting there so focused on each note you should jam and let the majesty of the tube happen more naturally. Always enjoy you videos. Great job to all of you!
I've got some modelling stuff like an Atomic Amplifire, but honestly I never use it, and just keep buying pedals to plug into my tube amp. The reason I do that is not necessarily about the sound at all - I believe all sorts of wizardry is possible with digital. The reason is simply that I love the romance and the gadgetry of it all - tubes warming up, endless physical dials, cables everywhere. Wouldn't trade it for the world. Scrolling through software plugins, no matter how good the sound, just doesn't feel the same.
"Like" if you'd love to see similar videos done with the latest Axe FX II or the AX8!
Just wanna say thanks for the two vids you did. I love my Kemper and use it everyday in my studio and out when I gig. I don't really gig a lot as I can't due to a spinal condition. If it wasn't for my studio I probably go mad(er). Thank you for posting the profiles Danish Pete, Rabea & other tech gods created, they're great (TM Kellogg's). I've been after the Silverback for ages. Currently, I'm wearing my neon spandex and shreading hard in my studio! Nice one guys. Your video's are informative and entertaining. It's like 'Top Gear' for musicians. (Clarkson, Hammond & May. Not Evans, Le Blanc and ....whoever). Keep rocking guys & thanks again.
These two videos were two of your best for sure. HILARIOUS outtakes... I literally was making faces in my studio too
I wonder which will be easier to service. While the digital amp might be more reliable while it works, does it become a near irreparable doorstop if it should break? I can fix a '65 Mustang, but who has a set of tools in their garage able to dig into the computerized mess of new vehicles? I think it becomes a matter of personal priorities. If I wanted a hundred different amps, I'd get the Kemper without hesitation. But if I'm only interested in the sound of a hand-wired Deluxe Reverb, there's no reason to complicate life. To each his own.
The fact still remains that if there were no amazing valve amps Kemper would have nothing to model off of. There is a place in this world for both.
I actually guessed right both times!! :D
Both sounds stellar, so good job kemper! But the difference (though very small), is that the string separation is a little clearer on (whait for iiit).. the kemper.
Good job guys! Great videos
amazing video
loved both parts of it!
What would have been really funny is to swap out a Peavey Windsor for the JCM 800 and really throw them for a loop.
Calm down Satan.
The past: Valve amps sounded better. Present: Modelling amps has caught up and they sound equally good. Future: what's a valve amp bro?? It IS a bit sad, but I can see things heading this way
Nah, not at least in our lifetime. Solid states will dominate the market, but not to the point of replacing valves completely.
That cant happen then there would be no more profiles kemper is not a modeling amp it is more or less a camera for sound hens the word profiles we will all ways need new and great amps to profile. That said the amp manufacturer's shuld get a proceed for the copies of there amps or it will go the way of Napster we all hope not
Dave W that’s like saying you have to pay everyone that appears in a photo you take in public. It doesn’t work that way.
i is sad indeed but technology evolves. It's like using steam engine vehicles instead of gas or now, electric....
It’s not sad at all. I’d rather pay 1800 for the kemper than tens of thousands for all of the amps I would like
Shout out to the guy that keeps changing the time on the broken clock! Chappers, Cap great video as always cheers.
you know what would have been hilarious ?? when chappers said "hit a chord" at 17:17 the sound of the miku popping out of nowhere lol
BAAAAA !
Who really cares which one it is as long as it sounds goooooooood?
Good video. Glad they had another look at Kemper but it seemed like two bites of the cherry to get the result they wanted lol.
"Might be a bit boring, because you might hear a guitar sustain for like 20 seconds..."
Lee getting into drone metal now? I dig it.
When the captain says "I felt..." or "I'm feeling..." its pure bs haha!
I have been listening to Kemper vs Real amp clips a lot lately and to be honest, i am convinced there is a Kemper-specific sound to all of its profiles (for example, take a listen to a bunch of the amp factory profiles in a row to hear what i mean), but i can hear it only on overdriven tones - with cleans it is harder for me to tell.
The Kemper's drive sounds a bit hollowed out, SLIGHTLY harsher, more symmetric, less fuzzy, less warm, less syrupy, etc. - it has a bit of a "plasticky" quality compared to the original and less of its imperfections. I got the Morgan wrong though, as i expected the Original to be more defined in the cleans department - wasn't the case this time.
true
Partly right. It can be more fuzzy. But I know you mean fizzy right? However this is not always true. But when you carefully listen to heavy alternate picking on palm mute. You will hear a scratchy slippy sound to kemper. What you mentioned depends on how hard your original amp push the cab. But what I mentioned always works but only a detail.
Yeah, putting tone in words is like dancing about string theory :D I have no first hand experience with the Kemper, hence i can't judge about your example, but i believe it might be the case with the scratchiness.
But in this particular case, with the JCM800 example i actually meant that the original is a bit fuzzy, as in fuzz-like distortion territory - it's cranked and it starts to "fall apart" in a Marshall kind of way - a bit flubby, bassy, spitty. The Kemper on the other hand, does not duplicate this fuzziness in this instance, but it indeed sounds a bit hollowed out, clearer and *fizzy* at the same time - maybe because of the hollowed out mids the high end is just more audible, making it seem harsher? The differences are minute, of course, but it is not like they are not there. For JCM i instantly preferred the original due to the warmth - basically the much more xomplex and interesting mids content.
Kemper sounds great - no question about it, but overdriven it has a tone of it's own that you start to hear through, if you listen to enough clips and profiles. I remember some forum posts mentioning a similar experience a long time ago, which i initially did not believe. So this still leavs me pondering, if i should still consider the Kemper or stick with real amp + reactive load attenuator + cab impulses. I think it is better to have one real and fantastic sound than 10 000 good and not so good ones.
VintageCharlie i'm in the same ballpark as you. not 1 kemper has impressed me and when they sounded decent thet also sounded plastic. i use a hughes and ketner grandmeister live wich if you know how to set up a amp are great. they're practically a all in one amp,so you don't need pedals but you have to make the right sounding presets for yourself. it's still all tube,that's why i bought them.
okay, given that, do you think people will notice in a live setting (what chappers is saying he's gonna use the kemper for)?
and more to the point, in a live setting, will people care?
chappers looking at the kemper from a touring perspective is the main thing here- he can get an approximation of his amp tones that is near as almost makes no difference in a single, lightweight, relatively small unit. the tone might be a little too perfect, but from a practicality front, the kemper is pretty much a no-brainer at this point.
hell i couldn't tell the difference at any point during those last two videos. in short, i guess for an actual recording you'll still want to use your victories, your marshalls, your morgans whathaveyou just in case there is someone who can tell the difference, but when it comes to touring? nobody's gonna give a shit if you're playing a kemper- they're all too busy having a good time you know?
I guess one of the hang ups with a kemper vs a tube amp is looks. There is something sexy about a wall of Marshall stacks, or a Fender Tweed back line. It looks cool. Option paralysis is another. Having every amp ever at my finger tips, I think I would spend more time fiddling then playing. Imagine if they could come out with a $500 version that sounded that good? That would probably do it for me and a lot of others.
the eleven rack does it very well
I just bought a Chapman ML2, and I gotta say it's one of the best playing and sounding guitars I own..I live in the USA, and have been waiting for one to come through my local guitar store, and walla!..Finally got a used one, and not a scratch on it! I can't put it down!..Forget the hype, these guitars are for real! Way to go Rob!
The kemper is obviously a great tool for the touring musician, and if I were currently touring with my band I'd use a kemper, but for playing at home, I'd still prefer to have a room full of amps because I just want to sit down, plug in and play and not sit down, plug in, spend 30 minutes tweaking a bunch of settings because today I want a slightly different sound just because I can, and then play for 20 minutes and leave.
NoOne you have to tweak settings regardless of whether or not youre digital or tube.
Lee talking rubbish here! Can't get one right after four and then say he can tell the difference!
If he gets them all wrong, it proves he CAN hear a difference.
If there is no difference, he should get 50% of them right by chance. He isn't. He isn't a fair coin because he is biased by the sound difference.
You're still missing the point. It's not about whether he hears a difference or not - you'll likely hear a difference between two brand new Vox AC30's or two brand new JCM800's. It's whether he can identify which is the real valve amp and which is the Kemper.
And your arithmetical assumption statement is flawed because 4 amps overall simply isn't a big enough sample to apply probability math with any meaningful prediction result. You can toss a balanced coin 4 times and it can still be heads every time or 3 out of 4 times (try it yourself - it happens more times than you might think). That's because the odds each throw is still 50/50. You might find this interesting: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy It's only with a larger number of throws that the probability for the population moves nearer 50%. Even if you tossed a coin 100 times, it's very unlikely you'll get 50 heads and 50 tails, but it will be much nearer 50/50. You'd have to toss it something like 500-1,000 + times to move nearer to a virtually 50/50 result.
Voxman5
Are you even reading my posts? Go to a binomial calculator and see what the odds for results are. If you get an outcome that is below 5% to happen based on chance under the null hypothesis is generally considered to be enough to reject it.
So your null hypothesis is that they can ID the Kemper 100% of the time? That hypothesis is pointless. One failure is enough to reject it.
And that still leaves the issue the unlikely streaks of being wrong not being easily explained by just chance.
2 people guess 4 times each, a total of 8 chances - gets 1 out of the 8 right and calls it anything other than chance 😂 I love these guys.
@12:00 I'm still crying...
"I'm desperate for it to just go KTKZZT PBBBBLT"
Do Kempers like pedals? can you do a test on that. like with Wampler Dual fusion, xotic BB preamps, wahs, univibe, whammy etc
You dont need pedals with kemper, but yes, is good with pedals. This machine is fantastic
why would you not need pedals?
anthony morales because it can emulate any pedal
Jacopo Tersigni sure, but you couldn’t switch it on and off while playing
anthony morales there’s a programmable controller
Dear capt: I respect you a lot BUT, that was bull$hit no one can really guess which is which, I mean, rob, a touring and recording musician, couldn't even guess. That said, if it sounds good, doesn't really matter if it's valve or digital, they both serve a purpose, I think, with the real deal valves you craft the tones you want and with the kemper you do what rob does take a gazzillion amps with you at a low cost for gigging and , who knows, maybe even recording.
Actually, 50% of all people can guess which is which.
It was easy as pie for me. I usually always guess which one is which 100% of the time.
This is sad. The last video - in which they were both fooled by the modeling amp - was so refreshing and entertaining. One of the best videos on here. Now, I return to see this? Yes, we understand that most people prefer valve/tube sounds, but why on Earth are you so afraid of technology? Don't worry, people are still going to buy your more expensive valve/tube amps, Lee. They always will.
Lee swearing is the best. He's never mad or frustrated. But when he's swearing it's great.
I enjoy my kemper any day
Any hour of the day!
No seriously though, the any hour part isn't a joke. If you want KILLER boutique tube amp tone in the middle of the night without waking anyone, you can achieve it at any volume (Fletcher-Munson curve notwithstanding) with a digital modeling amp. Very big advantage here.
Best video EVER you guys! The reactions, especially from Lee, we're priceless! 😂 And areal eye-opener. I use digital modeling amps for years (Line6 and Zoom), and the quality of the sound gets better every year.
I would LOVE to have a Kemper or an AXE FX!
Anyway, awesome video!
The difference between the two is audible through the computer speakers. Could that difference be attributed to the fact that the profiling was done with the cabinet used for playback, so you're therefore hearing the color of that cabinet TWICE? Once during profiling, and again during playtesting? Most folks say that you should use a P.A. system when using a kemper, because you'll get full frequency response... Perhaps it's different when you're using the Kemper with the built-in amp?
Indeed...however, in theory, if you switch off cab emulation, you should be able to run a Kemper through a guitar cab. But it's best to go through a neutral PA speaker.
I think the difference all we can hear,can be the result of a slightly different mic position ;)
Maybe they heard a difference but had wrong ideas about how a modelled amp would sound like, compared to a tube. It would explain why they were wrong way more often than you'd expect based on 50% probability.
I don't know... There are a few times when they let the audio from the camera come thru instead of from the mics, and it sounds the same when you hear them trigger the switch pedal.
I got 4/4 through computer speakers. I would say its from being miced twice out of the sweet spot of the amp, not so much the cab. You got that extra perfect, miced out of the sweet spot frequency response that sounds like a great guitar tone on a record with the Kemper. In a way it emulates a few similar studio techniques to get a good full sound. That's what I was looking out for when I was playing along and it was very obvious to me.
Kudos to both of you for giving the digital technology a shot, listening through a high end setup with top of the line Sennheiser headphones the difference was very slight, probably most noticeable on the Morgan. Great job on both vids.
You still have to have the valve amp, to do the profile. But, to have different profiles of valve amps, in a portable head, awesome.
I'm most wondering about how easy it is to dail in a good sound! with my valve amp its just a couple of knobs and it sounds good and warm an tasty! how is that with something like the Kemper?? And is it that the valve amp is set up crappie and the Kemper exceptionally good?? still amazed though!
(I actually did get it right, just to brag)
I'm in the mood to watch a Rob Chapman video
*goes to RUclips
New video uploaded 2 minutes ago