@@pegleggreg3627or lack of food there this public pond and since a lot of the bluegill were fished out the bass I caught over the years got smaller and the bass wouldn’t spawn as much
The only rules I 100% can agree with when it comes to picking tank mates are: 1. If a fish's mouth is big enough to eat the other fish, it's going to try to eat it. 2. If it's a known aggressive and/or territorial species, chances are it's going to be aggressive and/or territorial. DO NOT EXPECT OTHERWISE. 3. Not all fish with the same name behave the same, do research on the specific fish you plan to get, as it might be more peaceful or more aggressive than other fish from the same species
Rule 1, of course, doesn't apply to (true) herbivores. Or those that have super-specific diets. That said, a lot of aquarium-kept fish are omnivores or carnivores, and especially the big ones. Best advice is to always do your own research on the species of fish you want to acquire, particularly combined with the fish you already own. Some fish are easy to mix, some you just shouldn't try, or only in specific cases/combinations. And if you do find one that's more peaceful (like the red oscar mentioned), just keep in mind it might still change if something in the tank changes.
Something tells me that the people that say "my fish grew up together, they won't eat each other " are the same people that think dogs and cats can be vegans.
Or the people that think their pet anaconda/chimp/tiger it's their "baby" they raised, so it won't turn on them. Too late when they miss the warning signs or when their pet suddenly mauls them.
While for the most part any fish can turn on any fish as John says. There are a few exceptions, where growing up together may be slightly advantageous. Though nothing is 100 percent. For example, 2 clownfish exactly the same size, or say 7 to 8 clownish all different sizes cannot be added together at the same time. But if they are all born together in the same tank, and you sold them all off till you ended up with 2 or a “harem” of say 9 fish, then you have a better chance. Large Tank sizes help immensely. No small tank can safely house 2 x mated pairs of clowns (4 fish in total). But I have seen (on RUclips) very large tanks where this combination worked.
I went to a tattoo shop once and spotted a fish tank. I asked to take a look and there was a FLOWERHORN in a community tank of smaller cichlids. I asked the tattoo shop owner if he was going to move out the flowerhorn anytime soon, and he’s like NAH they growing up together he doesn’t eat them. I wanted to say “YET!” 😂
I had a flowerhorn in a large cichlid community tank for about 5 years. Never bothered anything except for red hooks, she had a serious bloodlust for red hooks but nothing else lol.
@@KGTropicals i think the oscar didnt eat the baby peacock cichlids because its kind of like you raising a puppy, it grows up thinking its a human. same with the oscar raised with peacocks, it thought it was a peacock. btw i am joking.
Absolutely nothing is set in stone when it comes to fishkeeping. There are guidelines - and do's and dont's (like dont keep an Oscar in a 10G tank) - but when you follow the guidelines there no telling what's possible. My Oscar tolerates absolutely everything, big and small - even guppies.... He refuses to eat any meat. But It is my first Oscar that isn't an absolute killer. Fish temperament is a thing. Tank size is definitely a thing. Live plants are a game changer. Other than that, don't ever think you are in control.
@@anthonyruth5606 The only plant my Oscar doesn't destroy is Hornwart. I guess he doesn't like those needles in his mouth. Everything else lasts about a day.
@@SmokingSkeleton1a lot of fish don’t mess with hornwort that’s why it’s so invasive here in Florida I think silver dollars are known to eat hornwort but I may be wrong but I had couple Oscars over the years and I had some Oscar’s that would destroy plants some that didn’t even look at it
If humans who grew up together (e.g., siblings) can be enemies after living happily with one another for several years, some fish have no chance with each other.
The fish hobby thrives and reaches a fever pitch of enjoyment once you find the hard cut fundamental truths and then realize a lot of this is vibes and intuition based. Experiment, check your work, ALWAYS have your backup plans for if and when things fail, and share what you learned with the world. I'm seeing more and more and more people realizing cichlids could possibly be kept with plants without issues, something I was told for years (and experience reinforced) was impossible. I saw an awesome planted Oscar tank the other day, we're learning a lot and most of it is from getting our hands wet doing experiments then checking the work.
I agree with your sentiment at the end of the day: fish can always just go nuts and become aggressive. However. There are dozens of studies on ornamental fish aggression in community settings and known this such as cospecifics and interspecies bonding ( think cleaning wrasses). But it IS SCIENTIFICALLY AND STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT, THE REDUCTION IN BOTH RANDOM OR SYSTEMIC/ PATTERNS OF AGGRESSION WHEN FISH ARE KEPT TOGETHER YOUNGER + LONGER. WITH SIBLINGS AT PRE-REPRODUCTIVE AGES SHOWING THE MAXIMUM REDUCTIONS. Studies on the Basic Factors in Animal Fighting: V. Inter-Species Coexistence in Fish Zing Yang Kuo Pages 181-194 | Published online: 04 Sep 2012
Between you guys and Jason and Joanna, my love of the hobby has grown exponentially over the past 2 years. Especially for nano tanks and rice dish except rice dish are hard to find in my part of Ontario.
The 1 inch of fish per gallon isn't entirely BS, I would use it when I was working at a fish store when talking to beginners. But, it does need to be paired with: 1- minimum school size for schooling fish. Which sometimes will bust the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule, because if you need 6-12 fish for a schools, smaller tanks won't do. 2- minimum tank size for any fish added, specific to that fish. That minimum tank size can vary based on the presence of tank mates or not. It's still a rule of thumb, and a rather conservative one to make more sense for beginners. If you follow these three and choose retalively docile community fish, usually you'll be fine. It's mostly a conservative rule to account for the maximum biofiltration capacity of tanks, paired with conventionally appropriate filters. When you tell customers "pair your 32 gal with a 32 gal appropriate filter, only add fish that have a maximum of 32 gal minimum tank size, and you can add roughly 32 inches of fish in there after cycling". Usually that turns out more or less correct, and it's just a way for us employees to quickly give conservative advice to customers so they dont overstock their tanks. OF COURSE, even when paired with the other 2 rules, it is far from perfect. A 12 inch oscar consumes much much much more than 12x 1-inch fish, and a 4 inch khuli loach consumes less than 4x 1-inch fish, or a 4 inch molly. But for most begginers on say a 32 gal or less, with the kind of fish you'd see in a 32 gal, with a typical 32 gal filter, it usually turns out more or less correct. And it is pretty conservative especially the higher up you go anyway, of course you can add more than 15 inches of fish in a 15 gallon if you know what youre doing. It's still a pretty helful rule when paired with the other two rules I mentioned, for most begginer fishkeepers, with most beginner fishes and tanks. Still I don't trust anyone who speaks in absolutes in this hobby. Unfortunately there's not a lot of scientific studies of fish keeping as a hobby. The best we can do is often throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks, and follow the footsteps of others who have done so. And if it works, it works. These 3 rules I mentioned are just guidelines for beginners. We also have to acknowledge there'll always be mountains of uncertainty when it comes to it. Yes, sometimes aggression can be traced to some type of trigger (bad water parameters, breeding behavior kicking in, etc.), you can put the odds in your favor as much as you want, but sometimes, failure or success can be just a fluke!
@@erickborling1302 Usually that's pretty fair, it does depend on each fish in my opinion. Some schooling fish need more mates than others to exhibit schooling. Also some non-''schooling'' social fish like corys can be fine in groups of 4 imo. It also very much depends on the space. 7 neons in a 50 gallon might not school from too much open space and getting lost around, whereas they would in a 20 or smaller. People say 6 but I agree in most setups they won't until you go to 7-8, sometimes way more. Not to mention, it's not rare to lose a few fish out of a dozen when buying new fish. Overshooting and expecting some losses can be a smart idea. It doesn't have to be that difficult either. In general I would just ask customers: ''are your fish schooling, or are they scattered around?'' If they are scattered, add more fish until they start schooling. If they're schooling already at 6-8, well, they're probably fine. Simple, really 😅
All the rules are bs, it's not really this complicated. RUclips channels just need content and that's why these rules exist. and most products they push are bogus, and they can do that because, like you say, there's not enough studies on these things to let people know they're being scammed.
I haven’t been a fish keeper long, but you are definitely right on this one. I have had that happen to me about three times since being in the hobby. One day or weeks,even months good, and the all hell breaks loose in the tank.
Truth! I have taken so much advice from other hobbyists or lfs folks... nothing quite panned out as it "should" have. Had to make up my own plan based on my specific experiences, specific tanks, specific species, and my locations specific water parameters. Etc. 😂 Its all very interesting!
I have a tank that has 10 peacock cichlids and a breeding pair of Lutino Oscars. The only peacocks that get chased by the Oscars are the orange peacocks. Their color is very similar to feeder goldfish.
Usually, when this happens, you didn't do anything wrong. Instead: you did it so right, that your big fish either got big enough to eat the smaller ones, or they are getting ready to breed and therefore become territorial. And even a very small territory is much bigger than a large tank. So the territorial one is desperately trying to chase the smaller fish out of his newly established territory, and sorry, fish do not have enough brains to realize that if THEY can't swim to glass, the other fish ALSO can't. They just get terribly irritated that those stubborn small ones are NEVER getting the point that they have to move out of the territory. And who doesn't leave voluntarily, will be attacked again and again, until he stops moving - forever.
The biggest anomaly I have is that my pearl stingray loves his cory tankmates. 18-20 inch diameter disk with little 1-2 inch albino cory cats. They are all pals
Interesting perspective! It's always good to question things and consider different viewpoints. Would love to hear more about your reasoning behind this statement!
In my 15 years of serious fish keeping, if they grow up together they are alot more likely to leave each other along.. Good example, I have a small cichlid with a 24 inch arowana and it's peaceful. If I throw another cichlid the same size in the aquarium, the arrow will eat it immediately. I have been through many different cases but having them grow together increases your chances by far.. And yes they can be tank mates for 4-5 years and then one decide to eat the other.
I once had a large sleek 14-inch clown knifefish in big tank with two 3-inch baby red bellied piranhas. The three lived okay together for about two months, although the large knifefish occasionally bullied the two much smaller fish. When I went on a weekend trip and came back, I didn’t see the knifefish in his usual area. To my astonishment, the two baby piranhas had killed and eaten him up, leaving only his head and a couple of other parts, which I found strewn about tank bottom. The little piranhas were swimming energetically around. Their bellies were swollen and full with the once sleek knifefish. I couldn’t believe it because I always thought the knifefish was the “boss” of the tank because of his much larger size and intimidating presence!
My community pond 700L, has shubunkins, comets, rosy barbs, white clouds, danios, a couple big Chinese algae eaters, yabbies and mystery snails. They all seem to get along fine.
lol I did think fish would be peaceful if they “knew each other” in my early days of keeping tanks. I quickly realized they are still wild animals from nature. That’s the cool part to me now. My 2 angels are such bullies and I expect the tank to be like a Tyson fight at any moment but that’s the chance we all take. It’s so fun and interesting to watch nature in this way in my tanks.
I have 5 tanks and 2 ponds, one of which has had 3 Oscar’s, a variety of different cichlids and even a large school of Buenos Aires tetras that have gotten very large and having had any deaths or missing fish in 4 years. Even the tetras have gotten very large huge and even eat feeder mosquitoe fish as well
I helped to raise my little sister since our parents divorced. I was her father figure and big brother. I took care of her, like my own child. Forty years later, we don't get along anymore. If it happens with humans, it can happen with fish.
When I first got a 55 gallon I wanted angelfish and neon Tetris. I was told if I put the Tetris in first and then introduced the angels later the angels would not be territorial. Everything was peaceful and in harmony for about six months. Then all my neon Tetris started disappearing. Took the angels out, then all of a sudden neon stopped disappearing. I learned this lesson the hard way sometimes it works, but not all the time.
I had a bunch of cichlids that "grew up" together. The bumblebee cichlid got to be the dominant male and started picking off all of his tank mates one by one. Didn't believe it till I saw it myself.
I could not agree more, I’ve tried more time than I care to count to do things differently and personify the fish thinking they understood my logic. It’s not gonna work because of wanting to make it work. It’s why I say never be afraid to do enough, and I say that because the person stops on the first answer that suits there interest instead of thinking and seeing what is actually best for the fish. I do not put myself above wrong things because mistakes do happen but if they happen because I stopped when it was convenient for me to do so that’s 100% on me and not the fish. This being said I still challenge social norms that are not understood because I either have something to learn still or I have seen and know otherwise. That being said, it worked for me personally, so I’m not shaming anyone for trying what they want to do but repeating the mistake expecting different results is definition of it self. Always remember the learning curve is always gonna grow if the situation changes and fluctuates. May the journey be full of ripe fruit and fresh perspective, great video and stay happy and healthy my friends!
It may not help long-term, but it does help if they all start out young at the same time. What I mean is, letting them grow up together is often more successful than trying to introduce a new adult fish into an established tank. That can go really bad, really fast. That's not really what you're talking about here, but I feel like it's adjacent relevant. 😂
That said, I know you were successful with introducing that adult Red Oscar into the group of established adults. So yeah, like you said, what works for me might not work for you, and what works for you may not work for Jenny from the Block.
Also depends on the specific fish temperament and personality. Ive had bettas that did well with tank mates shrimp and snails etc and Ive had some that ate every ghost shrimp and snail it could fit in its mouth and bully the large snails.
Sometimes fish just befriend other fish. Sometimes it's even fish, they would typically eat. On top of that, the three or four times that i've seen it happen with my own fish, it works forever. But and this is the important thing, it has to be on their terms.
Anything can and does happen. Had a lovely Thorichthys tank going for a good 3 years. All males. Plenty of tank space. The Ellioti decided to start attacking the two Pasionis for no reason whatsoever. Just decided one day that he liked killing. Rehomed the whole lot separately.
1inch per gallon maybe if the fish are Mollies, Guppies or Sword Tails, but a 12-inch Oscar will not survive in a 12 gallon or a 28-inch Arowana is not gonna survive in a 30 long. I had a pair of Oscars and a pair of Green Terrors since they were about 2-inches each, fast forward 3 years and the big 13-inch Oscar killed the big make Green Terror one night. Everything was fine when I shut the light off at 7pm, but next morning the GT looked like he got ran over by a Mack truck, there was nothing nice or pretty about it!
That's so true. I've seen so many different behaviours from my fish over the years, they keep amazing and surprising me. I had a betta that lived with a couple of female guppies all his life (and the girls lived their long healthy lives). After he passed I bought another, he lived with guppies too... for a month 😢
I had a school of 12 galaxy rasboras that all got along just fine one day. Until for some reason, they didn't, and one male murdered every other fish in the tank. He continued to live a year after that, but for a long time he was in a ten gallon alone, till I risked it and out him with a min of zebra and leopard danios. He tried to fight them, but they didn't care, so it worked out until he died.
Yup,, I have a 75 gallon that I had placed 8 blackskirt tetra and two rainbow sharks shortly after cycling it and added a 10 inch albino oscar that a friend of mine wanted to rehome. Although the oscar does take a swing at them every now and then, the tetras have survived, mainly due to the driftwood cover I have in there I think.
It’s just like the time my male bristlenose was fighting with my Dojo Loach! I never had that problem or even HEARD of it. Buy I separated them and my loach is fine now.
I have Discus and Tetra in one tank. The key to making the latter food is making sure everyone is well fed. This is a fact that I've been able to prove over almost a year. In addition, should not feeding the tank enough come into place, that is exactly when a tetra would get eaten. Food for thought.
I had a quarantine tank with a pearl gourami, female beta, and cherry barbs. At first the fish live peacefully together but then the female beta start eating aggessively and got dropsy. Something flip in the pearl gourami and it started harassing all the fish. It will chase any fish that eat the food including the beta. Fish will attack any sick fish. If you see sign of a sick fish, take it out of the tank immediately.
Male giant gouramis are jerks when they got into that age. They will attack other male giant gouramis even other similarly sized fish. I kept a bunch together as babies and when they're bigger, that one dominant male would just attack everybody. I also once kept one giant redtail gourami with kois, he messed up the kois scales even though he's only 8" and the kois are 12"-14".
excellent video! loved this video probably because i keep guppies with my oscar, and i have guppies with my tiger barbs and dempsey.... no issues, breeding guppies, breeding barbs, growing plants happy fish
At the end, you could've also said you could be doing something wrong but it turns out right. I read about a community tank that had 2 male bettas peacefully coexisting. It was a large/long tank. They basically marked their territory and it was all good. I got torched in a Facebook group for even mentioning this
I had one make betta who lived peacefully with two females. He clearly wasn't interested in breeding so he never bothered them and they left him be. I got lucky that I had passive fish when I first started. I would never do that now, but some fish just have personalities that are against the grain, but they are exceptions to the rule. It doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution with any fish. I've had guppies who ate all their fry and some who never saw them as food - they were the exception to the rule & I had very unaggressive fish. But then I've had fish I would NEVER put in a community tank because you knew they'd be aggressive the moment they acclimatised to your quarantine tank.
When it comes to inter- or intra-species compatibility, what you read in books usually means general trends. With animals, there is almost never a hard and fast rule. Your own experience may differ because it's a sample size of one. Get a thousand, or ten thousand of those situations, and you'll see the numbers fall more in line with what the literature reports. As always, YMMV.
The reason I give the credit to local fish stores is because of the 1 inch per gallon rule. my local fish store said that when I started doing my 1st aquarium. And it’s funny my local chain stores did not.
I have a 125 overstocked with 4 to 5 in. Pea's & Hap's . One day, my Venustus decided to constantly chase & harass my Borlei, both males. I removed the Borlei & put him in the 300 gal. Pond outside to save him.
It's all statistics. All you can do is tweak the circumstances to increase the likelihood of your desired outcome manifesting. I had a Black-Skirt Tetra that decided to be a serial killer of guppies. So, I moved it to my Mbuna grow-out tank and everyone got along.
So true I’ve been keeping fish for years and was always told this and your right what works for me might not work for you such good info hence my umbee
While it's still wrong the inch per gallon thing has been morphed from what it originally was it was 1 for every square inch of fish so if you have a 3 inch long fish that is 2 inches tall and an inch wide would be 6 gallons
This is a logic that often applies to social animals that have a sense of "family" (or "pack" or whatever). Dogs, even dominant/territorial breeds, generally will be more accepting of another member of the pack if they grew up together, or if either of them was brought into the pack as a (young) puppy. Still might get issues, but the chances of issues are smaller than when combining adults. While fish may have a schooling/shoaling mentality, in most cases, that's primarily out of self-preservation, and not because they're "social". Other than a breeding pair (or harem?), which still might cause issues with the rest of the tank. Maybe there are fish species that are actually social, but as far as I've seen, most fish (at least those held in aquariums) aren't like that.
Waiting, I have 6 rosy something minnows 2" I used to start a tank I while back. Fast forward I added shrimp to said tank and my minnows started eating the shrimp, so minnows had to move into a grow tank of 6" Koi. I knew this could be bad as I watch a koi chase a minnow with its mouth open. Long story short I think it's because they grew up together, I'm kidding three weeks later their eating together. The Koi are on a high protein food for growth maybe it's because their eating well or I got lucky maybe the minnow is just too fast for the Koi. Thanks for the video
My Pindani was eaten in the middle of the night. I woke up to a corpse in the bottom of my tank, all that was left was skin and that was it, no scales, eyes, fins, or guts. Just skin and I was sad because he was one my first fish I introduced to my tank. Down to 16 african cichlids in my 75 gallon now. But no one else has been eaten.
No two fish are alike” Oscars, have different personality” I was able to keep goldfish with 2 Oscars, and 1 Jack Dempsey……I had those fish for years, and the goldfish grew to 3 inches. I ended up getting a bigger fish tank, and ended up adding two black convicts to the tank……everything was normal for 2 months Until the black convicts mated, and had a small fry” after that my two Oscars decided to bulky every other fish in the tank…….they killed the goldfish, and injured a black convict” I ended up transferring the 2 black onvicts to the old tank
Hey do you know how else this applies? Dogs that “grew up” with each other or a cat, and 5 yrs later they now hate each other. Animals are just like people we sometimes get sick of others.
Fish are known to eat their own fry. They don't have loyalty to Phil from down the street because they hang out a few times, especially when Phil is not a 10 inch monster predator
I had four 5' oscars, 15 glowfishes and 1 ft arowana lived together for almost a year, then suddenly all my oscars dead in a night but my glowfishes still complete
What I have heard was if you put a fish in a tank it won't grow to big for the tank granted we all know that's not the truth so how is your pond doing I need to get mine back up and going I'm thinking about putting a yellow belly slider and a couple koi in it 175 gallon I'm getting ready to set up my 75 gallon aquarium a couple angels and some black skirt tetras not sure what else to add
Ok, so this was when I was little and not my tank. My parent had a tank with an Oscar and he would regularly get feeder fish. One goldfish with a mickey mouse tail was chosen to be an ally to said oscar and would chase new feeders to the oscar. I was surprised to see the goldfish be aggressive to other goldfish and chase it to the oscar until it was the only one in there.
An old timer that raised his own fish in his home, told my brother and me when we were in our 20s (BEING 75 NOW) that every fish out of so many (can't remember the numbers) will be a killer fish. You have to treat fish, insects, birds, dogs, cats, and every animal born as a human being.
I have an aquarium with an Oscar, paratalpia pollini, geophagus, electric blue Jack Dempsey, mollies, and turquoise rainbow fish randomly added and have been together for 2 years doing great 🤷♂️ I say just have extra aquariums and try if it isn’t working out remove what you’re trying to add and put into a different aquarium
I wouldn’t say it means *nothing* Being raised together I would say helps your chances with some types of fish. It’s just not fool proof because pretty much nothing is. I’ve watched tons of bettas and ones raised in community tanks are on average better in community tanks than the ones that are not. Not perfect, just better. Although- it doesn’t really seem to be about the specific fish they’re with. It just seems like if they’re raised with tank mates they’re more likely to be ok with tank mates and it’s not about the individual fish.
So how do you gauge whether your tank is over or under populated if you don't use the 'inch per gallon' formula? (Notice that I did not say 'rule') P.S. You and Jason both do an amazing job with all the info you give, and I never take it all as gospel because 'fish be fish', they'll do what they want, all you can do is hope for the best! Thanks!
For bioloads, a better formula would relate WEIGHT of fish to effective surface area of biofiltration. That is because a 12 inch fish consumes much more than 12x 1 inch fish. That's obviously much harder to estimate. Figures have been thrown around like one metabolic pound of fish, per 100 square feet of biofiltration, or roughly 650 cubic inches of foam in a canister or sump. These are very rough numbers from author David Bogert. This is also a very conservative estimate imo as you can do with a whole lot less. But for canisters and sumps going with something close can be helpful for low maintenance filtration systems that almost never clog.
@simonthibodeau7082 that does make more sense from a maintenance and viability standpoint. Also, the inch/gal rule starts losing credibility the larger the fish gets (10 inch fish in a 10 gal, kinda tight, 48 inch fish in a 50 gal, won't fit at all), although 50 1-inchers in a 50 gal would seem overcrowded to me
Fish are wild animals. I'm not sure why it's hard for people to understand that if the top species in nature will turn on each other for no reason then wild animals certainly will. Not to anthropomorphize fish at all. Have you ever seen a deer eat a live bird? Animals doing animal things.
I have seen huge public aquariums with shoals of oscar or pirahna with small fish living inside with them, including shoals of cardinals etc. The predators are well fed and so dont bother with the small fast moving fish.
i received a 50-gallon tank including fish. two of the fish were 2 half grown marble "koi" Angle fish. I had them for a few months. Then over a few weeks i would walk by and the 2 Angle fish would be talking back and forth. When i say talking they were bending their bodies towards the other and quivering their body and rippling their fins. Then a few days later the one Angle fish started pecking on the other. The Angle fish spent it's day in the corner. I took the aggressor Angle fish out and put it in a 20 gallon with come cory's , yo-yo loaches, zebra danios and tetra's. After a month a put the other Angle fish back in with the other. right away he/she started pecking on the other. took the Angle fish back out again and into the 20 gallon. the angle fish killed all the zebra danios except for 2. The Angle fish is now in prison in a 10 gallon...do not know what to do with it.
I got Malawi cichlids. Mbuna Peacocks in with two Oscars. The oscars seem to swim together. Sometimes there might be a cichlid that decides this is my end of the tank.
Well, yes, i agree, for the most part. I have, however, experienced exactly what we agree isnt the reason. I got an Oscar as a little guy. I put a school of discus tetras in as dither fish. 2 tiny bullhead from the pond rounded out the stocking list. Fast forward a year or two later. The oscar is nearly full grown. The bullhead are over 10 inches. Those tetras are swimming around just fine. Now, I put a pleco in for a bit of algae duty. About a 5" gibbiceps. That poor fish didn't make it 2 days before it had to be saved. Feeder goldfish didn't last long either. Whatever wasn't eaten by the oscar, was consumed by the bullhead after lights out. I really have no explanation for it besides "they were raised together." Yes, ive had plenty of instances where the exact opposite happened. But I really have no idea why it turned out the way it did. Those tetras should've been eaten once the oscar and bullhead attained a significant enough size. I expected as much to happen. They were only dither fish to let the little oscar feel a bit more secure. I intended for some other large cichlids to go in. Turned out to be such a cool combo as it was, i left it that way.
lol yeah they’re terrible parents. I’ve read it’s because in the wild they usually live in faster moving water, so the babies get swept away and therefore, they don’t develop parental instincts.
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The one that makes me even angriest is the people that insist fish grow to the size of their aquarium
I heard that from people working in fish stores.
I like the tank to seem like a vast warehouse to it's tiny occupants.
there is truth to this. Fish will stay stunted if environment is too small
@@pegleggreg3627 if you raise a human baby in a metal shoebox youll stunt their growth to. whats your point?
@@pegleggreg3627or lack of food there this public pond and since a lot of the bluegill were fished out the bass I caught over the years got smaller and the bass wouldn’t spawn as much
OMG, finally, someone said that out loud! Thank you! 🙂
The only rules I 100% can agree with when it comes to picking tank mates are:
1. If a fish's mouth is big enough to eat the other fish, it's going to try to eat it.
2. If it's a known aggressive and/or territorial species, chances are it's going to be aggressive and/or territorial.
DO NOT EXPECT OTHERWISE.
3. Not all fish with the same name behave the same, do research on the specific fish you plan to get, as it might be more peaceful or more aggressive than other fish from the same species
Even one agressive fish, no matter how small, can make the whole tank antsy. Now that all my fish are females, the tank vibe is extremely chill.
Rule 1, of course, doesn't apply to (true) herbivores. Or those that have super-specific diets. That said, a lot of aquarium-kept fish are omnivores or carnivores, and especially the big ones.
Best advice is to always do your own research on the species of fish you want to acquire, particularly combined with the fish you already own. Some fish are easy to mix, some you just shouldn't try, or only in specific cases/combinations. And if you do find one that's more peaceful (like the red oscar mentioned), just keep in mind it might still change if something in the tank changes.
nor do they all eat the same thing .. pleco for example: some graze algae, others wood and some prefer meat
Something tells me that the people that say "my fish grew up together, they won't eat each other " are the same people that think dogs and cats can be vegans.
Yea well it’s proven to work with owners that actually care about fish.
Seems to be 50% of the population in this country is severely delusional. About everything in life and the world.
Or the people that think their pet anaconda/chimp/tiger it's their "baby" they raised, so it won't turn on them. Too late when they miss the warning signs or when their pet suddenly mauls them.
Lol
While for the most part any fish can turn on any fish as John says. There are a few exceptions, where growing up together may be slightly advantageous. Though nothing is 100 percent.
For example, 2 clownfish exactly the same size, or say 7 to 8 clownish all different sizes cannot be added together at the same time.
But if they are all born together in the same tank, and you sold them all off till you ended up with 2 or a “harem” of say 9 fish, then you have a better chance.
Large Tank sizes help immensely. No small tank can safely house 2 x mated pairs of clowns (4 fish in total). But I have seen (on RUclips) very large tanks where this combination worked.
I went to a tattoo shop once and spotted a fish tank. I asked to take a look and there was a FLOWERHORN in a community tank of smaller cichlids. I asked the tattoo shop owner if he was going to move out the flowerhorn anytime soon, and he’s like NAH they growing up together he doesn’t eat them. I wanted to say “YET!” 😂
I had a flowerhorn in a large cichlid community tank for about 5 years. Never bothered anything except for red hooks, she had a serious bloodlust for red hooks but nothing else lol.
Rule of thumb... " everything works until it doesn't "
Very true!
@@KGTropicals i think the oscar didnt eat the baby peacock cichlids because its kind of like you raising a puppy, it grows up thinking its a human. same with the oscar raised with peacocks, it thought it was a peacock. btw i am joking.
My betta lived amicably with my guppies and zebra fishes for a year and then ate them suddenly.
Absolutely nothing is set in stone when it comes to fishkeeping. There are guidelines - and do's and dont's (like dont keep an Oscar in a 10G tank) - but when you follow the guidelines there no telling what's possible. My Oscar tolerates absolutely everything, big and small - even guppies.... He refuses to eat any meat. But It is my first Oscar that isn't an absolute killer. Fish temperament is a thing. Tank size is definitely a thing. Live plants are a game changer. Other than that, don't ever think you are in control.
It’s like Oscar and plants they usually end up a salad but I had Oscar’s that ripped my plants and some that didn’t
@@anthonyruth5606 The only plant my Oscar doesn't destroy is Hornwart. I guess he doesn't like those needles in his mouth. Everything else lasts about a day.
@@SmokingSkeleton1a lot of fish don’t mess with hornwort that’s why it’s so invasive here in Florida I think silver dollars are known to eat hornwort but I may be wrong but I had couple Oscars over the years and I had some Oscar’s that would destroy plants some that didn’t even look at it
Welcome to Fish keeping that’s what makes it the greatest hobby in the world, predictability and unpredictability
If humans who grew up together (e.g., siblings) can be enemies after living happily with one another for several years, some fish have no chance with each other.
Wow! I didn't know I could put a 75'' sturgeon in my 75 gal? Schweeet!! Lol
The fish hobby thrives and reaches a fever pitch of enjoyment once you find the hard cut fundamental truths and then realize a lot of this is vibes and intuition based. Experiment, check your work, ALWAYS have your backup plans for if and when things fail, and share what you learned with the world. I'm seeing more and more and more people realizing cichlids could possibly be kept with plants without issues, something I was told for years (and experience reinforced) was impossible. I saw an awesome planted Oscar tank the other day, we're learning a lot and most of it is from getting our hands wet doing experiments then checking the work.
“The inch per gallon sale” had me dying😂
I agree with your sentiment at the end of the day: fish can always just go nuts and become aggressive. However. There are dozens of studies on ornamental fish aggression in community settings and known this such as cospecifics and interspecies bonding ( think cleaning wrasses).
But it IS SCIENTIFICALLY AND STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT, THE REDUCTION IN BOTH RANDOM OR SYSTEMIC/ PATTERNS OF AGGRESSION WHEN FISH ARE KEPT TOGETHER YOUNGER + LONGER. WITH SIBLINGS AT PRE-REPRODUCTIVE AGES SHOWING THE MAXIMUM REDUCTIONS.
Studies on the Basic Factors in Animal Fighting: V. Inter-Species Coexistence in Fish
Zing Yang Kuo
Pages 181-194 | Published online: 04 Sep 2012
Between you guys and Jason and Joanna, my love of the hobby has grown exponentially over the past 2 years. Especially for nano tanks and rice dish except rice dish are hard to find in my part of Ontario.
The 1 inch of fish per gallon isn't entirely BS, I would use it when I was working at a fish store when talking to beginners. But, it does need to be paired with:
1- minimum school size for schooling fish. Which sometimes will bust the 1 inch of fish per gallon rule, because if you need 6-12 fish for a schools, smaller tanks won't do.
2- minimum tank size for any fish added, specific to that fish. That minimum tank size can vary based on the presence of tank mates or not.
It's still a rule of thumb, and a rather conservative one to make more sense for beginners. If you follow these three and choose retalively docile community fish, usually you'll be fine.
It's mostly a conservative rule to account for the maximum biofiltration capacity of tanks, paired with conventionally appropriate filters. When you tell customers "pair your 32 gal with a 32 gal appropriate filter, only add fish that have a maximum of 32 gal minimum tank size, and you can add roughly 32 inches of fish in there after cycling". Usually that turns out more or less correct, and it's just a way for us employees to quickly give conservative advice to customers so they dont overstock their tanks.
OF COURSE, even when paired with the other 2 rules, it is far from perfect. A 12 inch oscar consumes much much much more than 12x 1-inch fish, and a 4 inch khuli loach consumes less than 4x 1-inch fish, or a 4 inch molly. But for most begginers on say a 32 gal or less, with the kind of fish you'd see in a 32 gal, with a typical 32 gal filter, it usually turns out more or less correct.
And it is pretty conservative especially the higher up you go anyway, of course you can add more than 15 inches of fish in a 15 gallon if you know what youre doing. It's still a pretty helful rule when paired with the other two rules I mentioned, for most begginer fishkeepers, with most beginner fishes and tanks.
Still I don't trust anyone who speaks in absolutes in this hobby. Unfortunately there's not a lot of scientific studies of fish keeping as a hobby. The best we can do is often throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks, and follow the footsteps of others who have done so. And if it works, it works. These 3 rules I mentioned are just guidelines for beginners.
We also have to acknowledge there'll always be mountains of uncertainty when it comes to it. Yes, sometimes aggression can be traced to some type of trigger (bad water parameters, breeding behavior kicking in, etc.), you can put the odds in your favor as much as you want, but sometimes, failure or success can be just a fluke!
Just my opinion that a minimum party for schooling fish is 7.
@@erickborling1302 Usually that's pretty fair, it does depend on each fish in my opinion. Some schooling fish need more mates than others to exhibit schooling. Also some non-''schooling'' social fish like corys can be fine in groups of 4 imo.
It also very much depends on the space. 7 neons in a 50 gallon might not school from too much open space and getting lost around, whereas they would in a 20 or smaller. People say 6 but I agree in most setups they won't until you go to 7-8, sometimes way more.
Not to mention, it's not rare to lose a few fish out of a dozen when buying new fish. Overshooting and expecting some losses can be a smart idea.
It doesn't have to be that difficult either. In general I would just ask customers: ''are your fish schooling, or are they scattered around?'' If they are scattered, add more fish until they start schooling. If they're schooling already at 6-8, well, they're probably fine. Simple, really 😅
All the rules are bs, it's not really this complicated. RUclips channels just need content and that's why these rules exist. and most products they push are bogus, and they can do that because, like you say, there's not enough studies on these things to let people know they're being scammed.
I call it “that switch.” You never know when that switch is going to flip and when it does you’re off to the races and the carnage begins.
I haven’t been a fish keeper long, but you are definitely right on this one. I have had that happen to me about three times since being in the hobby. One day or weeks,even months good, and the all hell breaks loose in the tank.
The Tiger Barb reference was brilliant. I had a tank full then I didn't. They just kept killing each other, no outside interference was needed lol.
Truth! I have taken so much advice from other hobbyists or lfs folks... nothing quite panned out as it "should" have. Had to make up my own plan based on my specific experiences, specific tanks, specific species, and my locations specific water parameters. Etc. 😂 Its all very interesting!
I have a tank that has 10 peacock cichlids and a breeding pair of Lutino Oscars. The only peacocks that get chased by the Oscars are the orange peacocks. Their color is very similar to feeder goldfish.
Usually, when this happens, you didn't do anything wrong. Instead: you did it so right, that your big fish either got big enough to eat the smaller ones, or they are getting ready to breed and therefore become territorial. And even a very small territory is much bigger than a large tank. So the territorial one is desperately trying to chase the smaller fish out of his newly established territory, and sorry, fish do not have enough brains to realize that if THEY can't swim to glass, the other fish ALSO can't. They just get terribly irritated that those stubborn small ones are NEVER getting the point that they have to move out of the territory. And who doesn't leave voluntarily, will be attacked again and again, until he stops moving - forever.
The biggest anomaly I have is that my pearl stingray loves his cory tankmates. 18-20 inch diameter disk with little 1-2 inch albino cory cats. They are all pals
Interesting perspective! It's always good to question things and consider different viewpoints. Would love to hear more about your reasoning behind this statement!
In my 15 years of serious fish keeping, if they grow up together they are alot more likely to leave each other along..
Good example, I have a small cichlid with a 24 inch arowana and it's peaceful. If I throw another cichlid the same size in the aquarium, the arrow will eat it immediately.
I have been through many different cases but having them grow together increases your chances by far..
And yes they can be tank mates for 4-5 years and then one decide to eat the other.
I once had a large sleek 14-inch clown knifefish in big tank with two 3-inch baby red bellied piranhas. The three lived okay together for about two months, although the large knifefish occasionally bullied the two much smaller fish. When I went on a weekend trip and came back, I didn’t see the knifefish in his usual area. To my astonishment, the two baby piranhas had killed and eaten him up, leaving only his head and a couple of other parts, which I found strewn about tank bottom. The little piranhas were swimming energetically around. Their bellies were swollen and full with the once sleek knifefish. I couldn’t believe it because I always thought the knifefish was the “boss” of the tank because of his much larger size and intimidating presence!
A friend told me that if a turtle blows in your eyes u go blind, I couldn't stop laughing 😂😂😂😂
I grew up with MY brother. As adults we can not tolerate each other. As kids we were inseparable.
My community pond 700L, has shubunkins, comets, rosy barbs, white clouds, danios, a couple big Chinese algae eaters, yabbies and mystery snails. They all seem to get along fine.
lol I did think fish would be peaceful if they “knew each other” in my early days of keeping tanks. I quickly realized they are still wild animals from nature. That’s the cool part to me now. My 2 angels are such bullies and I expect the tank to be like a Tyson fight at any moment but that’s the chance we all take. It’s so fun and interesting to watch nature in this way in my tanks.
Too many innocent fish getting blamed for murdering other fish. If you didn't actually see it happen, don't pretend you know what happened.
I have an albino bichir that occasionally bullies smaller fish but normally it’s pretty laid back
I have 5 tanks and 2 ponds, one of which has had 3 Oscar’s, a variety of different cichlids and even a large school of Buenos Aires tetras that have gotten very large and having had any deaths or missing fish in 4 years. Even the tetras have gotten very large huge and even eat feeder mosquitoe fish as well
I helped to raise my little sister since our parents divorced. I was her father figure and big brother. I took care of her, like my own child. Forty years later, we don't get along anymore. If it happens with humans, it can happen with fish.
It kinda made me sad.
Weird larp
When I first got a 55 gallon I wanted angelfish and neon Tetris. I was told if I put the Tetris in first and then introduced the angels later the angels would not be territorial. Everything was peaceful and in harmony for about six months. Then all my neon Tetris started disappearing. Took the angels out, then all of a sudden neon stopped disappearing. I learned this lesson the hard way sometimes it works, but not all the time.
I had a bunch of cichlids that "grew up" together. The bumblebee cichlid got to be the dominant male and started picking off all of his tank mates one by one. Didn't believe it till I saw it myself.
I could not agree more, I’ve tried more time than I care to count to do things differently and personify the fish thinking they understood my logic. It’s not gonna work because of wanting to make it work. It’s why I say never be afraid to do enough, and I say that because the person stops on the first answer that suits there interest instead of thinking and seeing what is actually best for the fish. I do not put myself above wrong things because mistakes do happen but if they happen because I stopped when it was convenient for me to do so that’s 100% on me and not the fish. This being said I still challenge social norms that are not understood because I either have something to learn still or I have seen and know otherwise. That being said, it worked for me personally, so I’m not shaming anyone for trying what they want to do but repeating the mistake expecting different results is definition of it self. Always remember the learning curve is always gonna grow if the situation changes and fluctuates. May the journey be full of ripe fruit and fresh perspective, great video and stay happy and healthy my friends!
Each fish is unique just like us
Ha! I just put 7 checker barbs and a crowntail betta in a 20g. There are plenty of cover and site breaks so it’s been good so far.
It may not help long-term, but it does help if they all start out young at the same time. What I mean is, letting them grow up together is often more successful than trying to introduce a new adult fish into an established tank. That can go really bad, really fast.
That's not really what you're talking about here, but I feel like it's adjacent relevant. 😂
That said, I know you were successful with introducing that adult Red Oscar into the group of established adults. So yeah, like you said, what works for me might not work for you, and what works for you may not work for Jenny from the Block.
Also depends on the specific fish temperament and personality.
Ive had bettas that did well with tank mates shrimp and snails etc and Ive had some that ate every ghost shrimp and snail it could fit in its mouth and bully the large snails.
Sometimes fish just befriend other fish. Sometimes it's even fish, they would typically eat. On top of that, the three or four times that i've seen it happen with my own fish, it works forever. But and this is the important thing, it has to be on their terms.
Anything can and does happen. Had a lovely Thorichthys tank going for a good 3 years. All males. Plenty of tank space.
The Ellioti decided to start attacking the two Pasionis for no reason whatsoever. Just decided one day that he liked killing.
Rehomed the whole lot separately.
Weirdest combination I've seen recently is a very good and well known RUclipsr who has a tank with arowanas, African cichlids and discus.
I know who your talking about
11:00 that's me on Mondays before enough caffeine. And every other day of the week before enough caffeine, too.
1inch per gallon maybe if the fish are Mollies, Guppies or Sword Tails, but a 12-inch Oscar will not survive in a 12 gallon or a 28-inch Arowana is not gonna survive in a 30 long.
I had a pair of Oscars and a pair of Green Terrors since they were about 2-inches each, fast forward 3 years and the big 13-inch Oscar killed the big make Green Terror one night. Everything was fine when I shut the light off at 7pm, but next morning the GT looked like he got ran over by a Mack truck, there was nothing nice or pretty about it!
That's so true. I've seen so many different behaviours from my fish over the years, they keep amazing and surprising me. I had a betta that lived with a couple of female guppies all his life (and the girls lived their long healthy lives). After he passed I bought another, he lived with guppies too... for a month 😢
I had a school of 12 galaxy rasboras that all got along just fine one day. Until for some reason, they didn't, and one male murdered every other fish in the tank. He continued to live a year after that, but for a long time he was in a ten gallon alone, till I risked it and out him with a min of zebra and leopard danios. He tried to fight them, but they didn't care, so it worked out until he died.
"I've had enough of y'all's s*** I'm done" 😂😂😂
Seems like I remember one of you guys saying they had a silver sailfin Molly as a tank boss in an Mbuna setup. Seems like it was Jason, but maybe not.
Yup,, I have a 75 gallon that I had placed 8 blackskirt tetra and two rainbow sharks shortly after cycling it and added a 10 inch albino oscar that a friend of mine wanted to rehome. Although the oscar does take a swing at them every now and then, the tetras have survived, mainly due to the driftwood cover I have in there I think.
I find telling all the inhabitants " fish are friends, fish are not food" several times a day helps...😁
This is so true I've seen it for myself and I was like what's going on
It’s just like the time my male bristlenose was fighting with my Dojo Loach! I never had that problem or even HEARD of it. Buy I separated them and my loach is fine now.
I have Discus and Tetra in one tank. The key to making the latter food is making sure everyone is well fed. This is a fact that I've been able to prove over almost a year. In addition, should not feeding the tank enough come into place, that is exactly when a tetra would get eaten. Food for thought.
I had a quarantine tank with a pearl gourami, female beta, and cherry barbs. At first the fish live peacefully together but then the female beta start eating aggessively and got dropsy. Something flip in the pearl gourami and it started harassing all the fish. It will chase any fish that eat the food including the beta.
Fish will attack any sick fish. If you see sign of a sick fish, take it out of the tank immediately.
Male giant gouramis are jerks when they got into that age. They will attack other male giant gouramis even other similarly sized fish.
I kept a bunch together as babies and when they're bigger, that one dominant male would just attack everybody.
I also once kept one giant redtail gourami with kois, he messed up the kois scales even though he's only 8" and the kois are 12"-14".
excellent video! loved this video probably because i keep guppies with my oscar, and i have guppies with my tiger barbs and dempsey.... no issues, breeding guppies, breeding barbs, growing plants happy fish
At the end, you could've also said you could be doing something wrong but it turns out right.
I read about a community tank that had 2 male bettas peacefully coexisting. It was a large/long tank. They basically marked their territory and it was all good.
I got torched in a Facebook group for even mentioning this
KGT is back
This guy calls out mistakes with no mercy( or minimal mercy)
Off note: bros bîchîrs are adorable
I had one make betta who lived peacefully with two females. He clearly wasn't interested in breeding so he never bothered them and they left him be. I got lucky that I had passive fish when I first started. I would never do that now, but some fish just have personalities that are against the grain, but they are exceptions to the rule. It doesn't hurt to err on the side of caution with any fish. I've had guppies who ate all their fry and some who never saw them as food - they were the exception to the rule & I had very unaggressive fish. But then I've had fish I would NEVER put in a community tank because you knew they'd be aggressive the moment they acclimatised to your quarantine tank.
When it comes to inter- or intra-species compatibility, what you read in books usually means general trends. With animals, there is almost never a hard and fast rule. Your own experience may differ because it's a sample size of one. Get a thousand, or ten thousand of those situations, and you'll see the numbers fall more in line with what the literature reports.
As always, YMMV.
The reason I give the credit to local fish stores is because of the 1 inch per gallon rule. my local fish store said that when I started doing my 1st aquarium. And it’s funny my local chain stores did not.
I have a 125 overstocked with 4 to 5 in. Pea's & Hap's . One day, my Venustus decided to
constantly chase & harass my Borlei, both males. I removed the Borlei & put him in the 300 gal. Pond outside to save him.
It's all statistics. All you can do is tweak the circumstances to increase the likelihood of your desired outcome manifesting. I had a Black-Skirt Tetra that decided to be a serial killer of guppies. So, I moved it to my Mbuna grow-out tank and everyone got along.
So true I’ve been keeping fish for years and was always told this and your right what works for me might not work for you such good info hence my umbee
While it's still wrong the inch per gallon thing has been morphed from what it originally was it was 1 for every square inch of fish so if you have a 3 inch long fish that is 2 inches tall and an inch wide would be 6 gallons
This is a logic that often applies to social animals that have a sense of "family" (or "pack" or whatever). Dogs, even dominant/territorial breeds, generally will be more accepting of another member of the pack if they grew up together, or if either of them was brought into the pack as a (young) puppy. Still might get issues, but the chances of issues are smaller than when combining adults.
While fish may have a schooling/shoaling mentality, in most cases, that's primarily out of self-preservation, and not because they're "social". Other than a breeding pair (or harem?), which still might cause issues with the rest of the tank. Maybe there are fish species that are actually social, but as far as I've seen, most fish (at least those held in aquariums) aren't like that.
I have around 15 kribensis in with my flower horn. They have already had fry. 😂
Waiting, I have 6 rosy something minnows 2" I used to start a tank I while back. Fast forward I added shrimp to said tank and my minnows started eating the shrimp, so minnows had to move into a grow tank of 6" Koi. I knew this could be bad as I watch a koi chase a minnow with its mouth open. Long story short I think it's because they grew up together, I'm kidding three weeks later their eating together. The Koi are on a high protein food for growth maybe it's because their eating well or I got lucky maybe the minnow is just too fast for the Koi. Thanks for the video
My Pindani was eaten in the middle of the night. I woke up to a corpse in the bottom of my tank, all that was left was skin and that was it, no scales, eyes, fins, or guts. Just skin and I was sad because he was one my first fish I introduced to my tank. Down to 16 african cichlids in my 75 gallon now. But no one else has been eaten.
No two fish are alike” Oscars, have different personality” I was able to keep goldfish with 2 Oscars, and 1 Jack Dempsey……I had those fish for years, and the goldfish grew to 3 inches.
I ended up getting a bigger fish tank, and ended up adding two black convicts to the tank……everything was normal for 2 months Until the black convicts mated, and had a small fry” after that my two Oscars decided to bulky every other fish in the tank…….they killed the goldfish, and injured a black convict” I ended up transferring the 2 black onvicts to the old tank
Hey do you know how else this applies? Dogs that “grew up” with each other or a cat, and 5 yrs later they now hate each other. Animals are just like people we sometimes get sick of others.
Fish are known to eat their own fry. They don't have loyalty to Phil from down the street because they hang out a few times, especially when Phil is not a 10 inch monster predator
I had four 5' oscars, 15 glowfishes and 1 ft arowana lived together for almost a year, then suddenly all my oscars dead in a night but my glowfishes still complete
What I have heard was if you put a fish in a tank it won't grow to big for the tank granted we all know that's not the truth so how is your pond doing I need to get mine back up and going I'm thinking about putting a yellow belly slider and a couple koi in it 175 gallon I'm getting ready to set up my 75 gallon aquarium a couple angels and some black skirt tetras not sure what else to add
Ok, so this was when I was little and not my tank. My parent had a tank with an Oscar and he would regularly get feeder fish. One goldfish with a mickey mouse tail was chosen to be an ally to said oscar and would chase new feeders to the oscar. I was surprised to see the goldfish be aggressive to other goldfish and chase it to the oscar until it was the only one in there.
An old timer that raised his own fish in his home, told my brother and me when we were in our 20s (BEING 75 NOW) that every fish out of so many (can't remember the numbers) will be a killer fish. You have to treat fish, insects, birds, dogs, cats, and every animal born as a human being.
Interesting subject 🤔 thanks.
I have an aquarium with an Oscar, paratalpia pollini, geophagus, electric blue Jack Dempsey, mollies, and turquoise rainbow fish randomly added and have been together for 2 years doing great 🤷♂️ I say just have extra aquariums and try if it isn’t working out remove what you’re trying to add and put into a different aquarium
Good insight and explanation.
Great video John. Just an update, we finally got the fiber internet over here and it is absolutely outstanding!
We got ours too! Life changing!!
facts lol.
I wouldn’t say it means *nothing*
Being raised together I would say helps your chances with some types of fish. It’s just not fool proof because pretty much nothing is. I’ve watched tons of bettas and ones raised in community tanks are on average better in community tanks than the ones that are not. Not perfect, just better.
Although- it doesn’t really seem to be about the specific fish they’re with. It just seems like if they’re raised with tank mates they’re more likely to be ok with tank mates and it’s not about the individual fish.
So how do you gauge whether your tank is over or under populated if you don't use the 'inch per gallon' formula? (Notice that I did not say 'rule')
P.S. You and Jason both do an amazing job with all the info you give, and I never take it all as gospel because 'fish be fish', they'll do what they want, all you can do is hope for the best! Thanks!
For bioloads, a better formula would relate WEIGHT of fish to effective surface area of biofiltration. That is because a 12 inch fish consumes much more than 12x 1 inch fish.
That's obviously much harder to estimate. Figures have been thrown around like one metabolic pound of fish, per 100 square feet of biofiltration, or roughly 650 cubic inches of foam in a canister or sump. These are very rough numbers from author David Bogert.
This is also a very conservative estimate imo as you can do with a whole lot less. But for canisters and sumps going with something close can be helpful for low maintenance filtration systems that almost never clog.
@simonthibodeau7082 that does make more sense from a maintenance and viability standpoint. Also, the inch/gal rule starts losing credibility the larger the fish gets (10 inch fish in a 10 gal, kinda tight, 48 inch fish in a 50 gal, won't fit at all), although 50 1-inchers in a 50 gal would seem overcrowded to me
I had a pretty sweet set up with 2 Oscars and 2 Jack Dempsey's and I loved it, they schooled together non stop it was beautiful lol
Fish are wild animals. I'm not sure why it's hard for people to understand that if the top species in nature will turn on each other for no reason then wild animals certainly will. Not to anthropomorphize fish at all. Have you ever seen a deer eat a live bird? Animals doing animal things.
This is why I just stick to Otocinclus they just sit there on the wood
I've heard that with bettas if they grow up together they will be good being in the same tanks
“Me keeping an African cichlid with 2 goldfish and 4 minnows”
I also have a black belt in the tank and pumpkin seeds and blue gill
I have seen huge public aquariums with shoals of oscar or pirahna with small fish living inside with them, including shoals of cardinals etc. The predators are well fed and so dont bother with the small fast moving fish.
Public aquariums don't exactly advertise when their fish eat each other though.
@jonstfrancis I guess not.
i received a 50-gallon tank including fish. two of the fish were 2 half grown marble "koi" Angle fish. I had them for a few months. Then over a few weeks i would walk by and the 2 Angle fish would be talking back and forth. When i say talking they were bending their bodies towards the other and quivering their body and rippling their fins. Then a few days later the one Angle fish started pecking on the other. The Angle fish spent it's day in the corner. I took the aggressor Angle fish out and put it in a 20 gallon with come cory's , yo-yo loaches, zebra danios and tetra's. After a month a put the other Angle fish back in with the other. right away he/she started pecking on the other. took the Angle fish back out again and into the 20 gallon. the angle fish killed all the zebra danios except for 2. The Angle fish is now in prison in a 10 gallon...do not know what to do with it.
Let me guess.....they had an Oscar and a platy and they wanted to have them be friends......lol
John I had a Bicshar Fish that turn on my Angelfish .He almost killed them all.Lucky I took the Angelfish out.
When I get my fish from PetSmart or Petco and they want to know if I want a printed receipt I tell them if my fish die I know what I did. 😊
I got Malawi cichlids. Mbuna Peacocks in with two Oscars. The oscars seem to swim together. Sometimes there might be a cichlid that decides this is my end of the tank.
lol I have a large mouth bass and a 5 inch feeder goldfish....
Well, yes, i agree, for the most part. I have, however, experienced exactly what we agree isnt the reason.
I got an Oscar as a little guy. I put a school of discus tetras in as dither fish. 2 tiny bullhead from the pond rounded out the stocking list.
Fast forward a year or two later. The oscar is nearly full grown. The bullhead are over 10 inches. Those tetras are swimming around just fine.
Now, I put a pleco in for a bit of algae duty. About a 5" gibbiceps. That poor fish didn't make it 2 days before it had to be saved. Feeder goldfish didn't last long either. Whatever wasn't eaten by the oscar, was consumed by the bullhead after lights out.
I really have no explanation for it besides "they were raised together." Yes, ive had plenty of instances where the exact opposite happened. But I really have no idea why it turned out the way it did. Those tetras should've been eaten once the oscar and bullhead attained a significant enough size. I expected as much to happen. They were only dither fish to let the little oscar feel a bit more secure. I intended for some other large cichlids to go in. Turned out to be such a cool combo as it was, i left it that way.
My two Oscars are gentle giants, when my Blue Acara goes near them trying to bully them, the Oscars just back away every time
i've seen a guppy give birth and eat the baby in the same motion. Worst mother ever lol
lol yeah they’re terrible parents. I’ve read it’s because in the wild they usually live in faster moving water, so the babies get swept away and therefore, they don’t develop parental instincts.