What are you thoughts on this new prototype. It looks like we have a long way to go... If you want to get all the latest updates and news about Cavern, sign up here @ FirstBuild: tinyurl.com/yywjtbrv
My initial thought is that design will struggle lowering the humidity, particularly In environments where RH is higher.. How does it compare to using a dehumidifier in your main cabinet?
Looks like Firstbuild is onto something good here. I 100% agree with your recommendations Eric. I would like to see the cabinet be a little taller to be able to hang meats and still have room for a shelf or 2. Good stuff!👍🏼
I found that moving my sensor push around in my chamber gives me different readings. I think in part that could be part of the issue with the off readings.
Nice review. My comments on unit: 1. Temp controllers for commercial fridge are terrible, they use a wide +-swing to reduce wear on compressor. Looks like this is just using the supplied temp controller on beverage fridge. You should show the wifi readings on temp, what the +- swing is, not just the average. 2. Airflow! Using fans to blow across wicks to increase humidity, means increased airflow. Also the condensor coil fan from the fridge itself probably has more airflow than you want. In your built units you even replace that fan with a low flow computer fan...this thing has 3 fans you won't be able to control, you should talk about that. This looks like a show stopper to me. 3. Humidity... wick humidifier relies on increased airflow to achieve high humidity. To get 85 to 90% where I am, Phoenix, those fans will be blasting nonstop, drying out meat early. All your earlier posts about sonic humidifiers were 100% on point, and they achieve even 100% humidity with no airflow. You need to address this, seems a poor design choice and contrary to all your prior comments on humidifiers. 4. Dehumidifier, none present 5. Too short, cant hang salami and also use shelves. 6. Silly shelf design, overly bulky, a complete choice for silly hex cut flash over function... simple wire racks would be better by far, tighter grid, more access, take up less space. 7. Honestly, this seems to be very subpar compared to what anyone would make themselves in all regards, volume, temp control, and humidifier, no heater, no dehumidifier. Shelves show a complete emphasis on look and flash, over function. So far all I'm seeing is a glass front beverage cooler with worse mods than anyone could make themselves following your build posts. 8. I know this is design 1 prototype, but I hope you mention all these shortcomings in future testing and don't give them an easy pass. Keep up the great work!
That is an interesting build. I wonder about dehumidification though. In my homemade cabinet I find that the dehumidifier is the one that runs most of the time when I make salami, possibly depending on relative climate where you live, but as I aim to remove about 40% humidity I would expect a dehumidifier to be a must? I look forward to see further updates here and note that on their website they mention integrated pH meter, and meat weight scale, so it sounds like quite a luxury cabinet.
Eric you are correct temperature and humidity effect each other. I ran into the same problem with my cheese cave. This problem will multiply when it is loaded as well. I like the idea of the drink cooler but the accuracy of the thermostat in those are not very good from the beginning (its made for drinks). They will have to integrate the temperature and humidity somehow if it will be adjustable by bluetooth. I am glad you used 2 temp and humidity units so you can see if there are any dead zones and I bet it will after it is loaded.
Thank you for your experience and great tips we’ve got from you. In Europe it’s hard way to provide such a chamber so cheap. The wine chambers are extremely expensive. We try to build some new from ex refrigerator. Please, could we get the temperature parameters in Celsius. The Fahrenheit I should convert onto my Google scale. Thank you Erik!
Nice design, but I think it needs to be taller, and what about a dehumidifier. That's sort of half of the package....looking forward to seeing what happens throughout this series. Thanks for sharing Eric. = )
This is really fun and exciting to be part of the prototyping stage of a product like this. (1) does the top rack need to be honeycomb? Is that better than having slits across the length for hanging items? Not sure about that, maybe it works with the honeycomb. (2) This might be resolved in future iterations, but I do not think the controller box should be mounted on the outside like it is right now, maybe on the back, or inside. I understand it's hard with electronics in the humid environment inside the fridge. (3) For the following comment, I am not referring to the current version of the app. I work in IT software development, I cannot stress enough that in your final production version of the application, please make this as polished as possible, especially for Android. Usually app developers only focus on iOS and Android gets a crappy version of the app.
Hopefully they can work out the bugs and I agree having dehumidification available especially if using it to dry age meats. When you first add a coupe large primal's it usually gets too high. Get these things addressed and take my money!
Great review, I am looking forward to the cooking tests. One question, how do you ensure that the water and filter do not start growing bacteria and what not?
Also I use only distilled water in my cheese cave. This also makes your water wicks last longer. I only replace my water wicks every 2 years and clean them every 4 months and they are fine. The biggest reason for bacteria is the inside of the unit is not clean or the door is opened to much to allow bacteria in.
I have some thoughts to offer on your controller calibration issues. The temperature controller is at the top of the unit and your measurements were at the bottom. Without a circulation fan you would expect a temperature gradient like you saw; cooler at the bottom, warmer on top. Regarding the humidity: Consumer grade humidity sensors are bad. Expect 5% tolerances between 30-70%rh, worse outside those ranges. You can see condensation on the walls of the cooler, the controller's sensor is right against those walls. Expect a higher reading on the controller. A circulation fan might help there too. Relocating the sensor away from the walls or at least perpendicular to them would help. Durability of consumer grade (vs scientific grade) humidity sensors is not great either. Expect measurements to drift within 3-5 years.
Great review! Yeah I'd buy one once they work out some of the bugs on the cavern. I love the design on it and agree with you about the improvements it needs.
Definitely remove the faceplate from the upper shelves. Maybe add 2 temp/humidity sensors, so you can place them in separate parts of the cabinet, and get an average temp and humidity through the entire chamber?
Eric, As always, its a pleasure to watch what's developing at your site! I've been using a wine cooler for a while to dry my cured meats. Its design is similar to the cooler you show here. I have had to add stainless steel wool to stop midges and small flies from entering the chamber through the condensation drip tube. The cooling plate will drip onto a collection 'funnel' and down to a condensate collection tray. The little gnats will fly up that tube into the fridge. The stainless steel wool in the tube stops that. In addition, I added a small fan (in the back) to keep the condensate tray dry. A little Pot. Sorbate in the tray keeps any mold at bay. The unit works fine indoors, lightly loaded. Last year my pitina came out fantastic. I was so happy to see you make it. It's pretty special. People are surprised when it is presented. I live in a humid area also, Houston TX. Not as humid as your location! I have the cooler moved outside now. My problem isn't keeping it humidified, but the opposite. Even thought the evaporator (cooling) plate condenses moisture, it can't keep up with the evaporation from a full chamber. There is not enough room for even a small dehumidifier. I've recently dumped some potentially beautiful Calabrese salami due to high moisture for too long. I'd love to see the FirstBuild group find some way to reduce humidity. Maybe use that Pi to control and modulate the compressor to increase the dehumidification from the evaporator plate. I'm sure the final build won't have a door seal leak like this test unit. I am really looking forward to seeing all the new developments coming soon!
I would recommend making the shelves similar to the old refrigerator shelves. They would take up less room and on a small chamber like that one, room will be at a premium. The grating style shelves would give you more option to hang product.
hi, as always great video. how come i have seen Landjaegers in kwik mart's stores that look like they have only been drying for a week or so. so how long after you hit the right ph level is it safe to eat. thanks
What are you thoughts on this new prototype. It looks like we have a long way to go... If you want to get all the latest updates and news about Cavern, sign up here @ FirstBuild: tinyurl.com/yywjtbrv
My thoughts are that I need one of those!
@@toddstropicals me too!
My initial thought is that design will struggle lowering the humidity, particularly In environments where RH is higher..
How does it compare to using a dehumidifier in your main cabinet?
Looks like Firstbuild is onto something good here. I 100% agree with your recommendations Eric. I would like to see the cabinet be a little taller to be able to hang meats and still have room for a shelf or 2. Good stuff!👍🏼
I found that moving my sensor push around in my chamber gives me different readings. I think in part that could be part of the issue with the off readings.
Maybe some drawer slides like the on cabinets or some of the upscale ovens.
What part of Mexico are you in
Nice review. My comments on unit:
1. Temp controllers for commercial fridge are terrible, they use a wide +-swing to reduce wear on compressor. Looks like this is just using the supplied temp controller on beverage fridge. You should show the wifi readings on temp, what the +- swing is, not just the average.
2. Airflow! Using fans to blow across wicks to increase humidity, means increased airflow. Also the condensor coil fan from the fridge itself probably has more airflow than you want. In your built units you even replace that fan with a low flow computer fan...this thing has 3 fans you won't be able to control, you should talk about that. This looks like a show stopper to me.
3. Humidity... wick humidifier relies on increased airflow to achieve high humidity. To get 85 to 90% where I am, Phoenix, those fans will be blasting nonstop, drying out meat early. All your earlier posts about sonic humidifiers were 100% on point, and they achieve even 100% humidity with no airflow. You need to address this, seems a poor design choice and contrary to all your prior comments on humidifiers.
4. Dehumidifier, none present
5. Too short, cant hang salami and also use shelves.
6. Silly shelf design, overly bulky, a complete choice for silly hex cut flash over function... simple wire racks would be better by far, tighter grid, more access, take up less space.
7. Honestly, this seems to be very subpar compared to what anyone would make themselves in all regards, volume, temp control, and humidifier, no heater, no dehumidifier. Shelves show a complete emphasis on look and flash, over function. So far all I'm seeing is a glass front beverage cooler with worse mods than anyone could make themselves following your build posts.
8. I know this is design 1 prototype, but I hope you mention all these shortcomings in future testing and don't give them an easy pass. Keep up the great work!
That is an interesting build. I wonder about dehumidification though. In my homemade cabinet I find that the dehumidifier is the one that runs most of the time when I make salami, possibly depending on relative climate where you live, but as I aim to remove about 40% humidity I would expect a dehumidifier to be a must?
I look forward to see further updates here and note that on their website they mention integrated pH meter, and meat weight scale, so it sounds like quite a luxury cabinet.
My experience has been that those wicking filters don't work well if you have hard water
I did your Coppa and Basturma...they were both MAGIC!!!!
Thanks Guy's!
Eric you are correct temperature and humidity effect each other. I ran into the same problem with my cheese cave. This problem will multiply when it is loaded as well. I like the idea of the drink cooler but the accuracy of the thermostat in those are not very good from the beginning (its made for drinks). They will have to integrate the temperature and humidity somehow if it will be adjustable by bluetooth. I am glad you used 2 temp and humidity units so you can see if there are any dead zones and I bet it will after it is loaded.
I agree. Putting meat into it today!! Interested to see what happens when the humidity spikes..
I would suggest adding some way to check the water level without having to open the door. A simple sight glass would work fine.
Thank you for your experience and great tips we’ve got from you.
In Europe it’s hard way to provide such a chamber so cheap.
The wine chambers are extremely expensive.
We try to build some new from ex refrigerator.
Please, could we get the temperature parameters in Celsius.
The Fahrenheit I should convert onto my Google scale.
Thank you Erik!
Nice design, but I think it needs to be taller, and what about a dehumidifier. That's sort of half of the package....looking forward to seeing what happens throughout this series. Thanks for sharing Eric. = )
Water level alarm or a sight glass would be good. I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking this. Very interesting product to me.
Eric, I know it is a small thing, but could the lack of control be caused by not getting an airtight seal? (wires through the door gasket).
Great video!! That does not look like Louisiana. Where are you living now?
Like I saw, they used Mycodo under a RPI, correct?
If they make the hex cut outs the right size, they can deliver lots of free cup mats a the same time. Or they have hundreds of metal business cards.
😂😂👍👍
This is really fun and exciting to be part of the prototyping stage of a product like this.
(1) does the top rack need to be honeycomb? Is that better than having slits across the length for hanging items? Not sure about that, maybe it works with the honeycomb. (2) This might be resolved in future iterations, but I do not think the controller box should be mounted on the outside like it is right now, maybe on the back, or inside. I understand it's hard with electronics in the humid environment inside the fridge. (3) For the following comment, I am not referring to the current version of the app. I work in IT software development, I cannot stress enough that in your final production version of the application, please make this as polished as possible, especially for Android. Usually app developers only focus on iOS and Android gets a crappy version of the app.
Thanks Eric great information….
Low water level alarm for the humidifier
Yep. Water level, temp, humidity, door open, AND power loss.
No tag bells from you guys
What state is it in USA? Hawaii?
Hopefully they can work out the bugs and I agree having dehumidification available especially if using it to dry age meats. When you first add a coupe large primal's it usually gets too high. Get these things addressed and take my money!
Me too. Lot's of issues to work out. I'll be putting meat in it today so we'll see how it can handle the load😅
Eric from the background you are not in south Louisiana any more! LOL
lol. You are correct!!
Great review, I am looking forward to the cooking tests. One question, how do you ensure that the water and filter do not start growing bacteria and what not?
That's just a matter of cleaning out the filter and water each time it empties.
Also I use only distilled water in my cheese cave. This also makes your water wicks last longer. I only replace my water wicks every 2 years and clean them every 4 months and they are fine. The biggest reason for bacteria is the inside of the unit is not clean or the door is opened to much to allow bacteria in.
I have some thoughts to offer on your controller calibration issues. The temperature controller is at the top of the unit and your measurements were at the bottom. Without a circulation fan you would expect a temperature gradient like you saw; cooler at the bottom, warmer on top. Regarding the humidity: Consumer grade humidity sensors are bad. Expect 5% tolerances between 30-70%rh, worse outside those ranges. You can see condensation on the walls of the cooler, the controller's sensor is right against those walls. Expect a higher reading on the controller. A circulation fan might help there too. Relocating the sensor away from the walls or at least perpendicular to them would help. Durability of consumer grade (vs scientific grade) humidity sensors is not great either. Expect measurements to drift within 3-5 years.
Great review! Yeah I'd buy one once they work out some of the bugs on the cavern. I love the design on it and agree with you about the improvements it needs.
Definitely remove the faceplate from the upper shelves. Maybe add 2 temp/humidity sensors, so you can place them in separate parts of the cabinet, and get an average temp and humidity through the entire chamber?
Eric,
As always, its a pleasure to watch what's developing at your site!
I've been using a wine cooler for a while to dry my cured meats.
Its design is similar to the cooler you show here. I have had to add stainless steel wool to stop midges and small flies from entering the chamber through the condensation drip tube. The cooling plate will drip onto a collection 'funnel' and down to a condensate collection tray. The little gnats will fly up that tube into the fridge. The stainless steel wool in the tube stops that. In addition, I added a small fan (in the back) to keep the condensate tray dry. A little Pot. Sorbate in the tray keeps any mold at bay.
The unit works fine indoors, lightly loaded. Last year my pitina came out fantastic. I was so happy to see you make it. It's pretty special. People are surprised when it is presented.
I live in a humid area also, Houston TX. Not as humid as your location!
I have the cooler moved outside now. My problem isn't keeping it humidified, but the opposite.
Even thought the evaporator (cooling) plate condenses moisture, it can't keep up with the evaporation from a full chamber. There is not enough room for even a small dehumidifier. I've recently dumped some potentially beautiful Calabrese salami due to high moisture for too long.
I'd love to see the FirstBuild group find some way to reduce humidity. Maybe use that Pi to control and modulate the compressor to increase the dehumidification from the evaporator plate.
I'm sure the final build won't have a door seal leak like this test unit.
I am really looking forward to seeing all the new developments coming soon!
Hello, what is a price range on one of these ?
That's yet to be determined.
just a pleasure to follow you. but just to know where is your address? I am a fan.
Lovely review, am following. How do the fans actually blow on the filters to increase humidity?
I am in Latin America 😉
The filters wick the water upwards and when the fans com eon the gentle air evaporates the water on the filter. This causes the humidity to rise..
@@2guysandacooler where exactly please I will be there Garba from Canada 🇨🇦
I would recommend making the shelves similar to the old refrigerator shelves. They would take up less room and on a small chamber like that one, room will be at a premium. The grating style shelves would give you more option to hang product.
hi, as always great video. how come i have seen Landjaegers in kwik mart's stores that look like they have only been drying for a week or so. so how long after you hit the right ph level is it safe to eat. thanks