Makes Taylor's 100+ averages in tournaments like the 98 worlds all the more impressive. I recall playing pub league on these ol' boards when I first started. Only staple board I have now are two Yorkshire boards and the bullseyes on them are horrible.
@@arjanang I used to have a set of feathered wooden darts that used to be my grandads it's safe to say if I managed to get a dart in the bull it covers the whole bed
Interesting comparison . Especially after hours in Austin TX . But I was starting at my board and chucklin to myself cause I just yank all those thick wires off and make it sweet glow in the dark practice board for all hour and no bounce outs
We were talking about this on Saturday, the point profile has changed. Now it’s more a needle point where back in the good old days you had a much more rounded point. This allowed the dart to slide off the wire rather than dig in like a modern point would do.
I'm in process of replacing the worn out bullseye with an add on pasty like a pink silicon nipple with an aeriola implant as well. Preferably non toxic? 4:13
I remember my old retro board, it had a red painted wooden bullseye that when hit was knocked out of the board and you had to continually put it back in.
What I remember most from the old boards is the staplseswires starting to come loose after only moderate use, and then having to prise out the staples and hammer them back in a different place to make them stay in.
My father used to practice on one of these wiry boards. I know because it is the same board I started on too. I wouldn’t be surprised if some here were still using one.
Great video Matthew, interesting to see those old boards compared to modern ones. I've only been playing darts for about a year and just play at home for fun. Can you do a video on how to quickly do the maths in darts, it always impresses me how quick the top guy's like yourself can think numbers so quick. I know it's practice, practice, practice but have you any tips to offer us?
another great video Matt ... now try throw the old brass darts into that board like we used to when I started playing 50+ years ago ;-) ..... we used to have the long feather flights and I remember when the new stems and flights appeared .. we thought they were kak in those days ;-)
One of the local leqgue venues has two practice boards. A new one and a 30 year old warrior of a dartboard. Always practice on the old board rather than enter the queue for the new one.
I have one of these boards downstairs and a blade 6 upstairs…that’s why Taylor is the best of all time in my eyes…did it in both eras averaging 100 on these absolute monstrosities
I'm not so sure if I agree that the measurements made on the old board reflect a reduced scoring area as you've shown. No doubt there's a higher chance of bounce outs on the old board but anything other than a centre hit on a wire will get directed into the nearest segment so I think the actual scoring areas are probably the best part of a mm bigger than indicated on the old board. Agree with the bullseye though, what nightmare!
@@shaunrogers2256 I understand what you're saying as I had the privilege of playing in these boards years ago! To truly understand the impact of the round wire I think you'd have to analyse the bounce out rate of darts to be able to calculate how much of the bed the round wire truly occupies. As Matthew says, the wires will move, especially in a non-direct hit, so in my view the segments on the old board are bigger than what they might first appear. Presumably there would have been a step increase in averages when the blade wires were introduced if the segments were really that much bigger but I'm not sure if this is the case?
You're absolutely right. Everyone remembers the sound of these old boards. I mean hitting the wire with no bounce out. That was the soundtrack of darts back then. Along with the occasional quick side step to dodge a one coming at you from a springy wire. Anyway the actual active difference in area sizes is definitely much smaller than what the measures here tell you.
Great video, Matt. It'd interesting to see the modern players play on one of those old stapled boards. Just imagine the sort of averages people like Bristow, Wilson, and Lowe would've got if they'd played on a modern style board 🎯
Always wondered what the pros aim at if they want an outer bull as part of their checkout? Obviously, if you’re a pretty crap thrower like me, then it’s inner bull, pretty confident in the likelihood of not hitting it, but was interested in how a top player goes about it. Thanks.
I would like to see you play games on both boards just to see how much difference the wiring makes. No doubt the modern boards are much better but I think the standard of play has dramatically increased too.
How do they pick up the sound of the darts hitting the board on the tv tournaments ? Is there some sort of mic behind the board? I would like to see the setup they use
Got something similar to the Bar i go to on a Monday night and the amount of bounce outs i get is ridiculous! And to make it worse it's a solid floor and i got brand new CD grip points put in and I've snapped 2 within a month 😂
Good video about a VERY important point. The darts organisations, particularly PDC, should standardise these. In the past (BDO), 8.0mm was the standard as proven by your video. But modern boards are getting very close to 10mm which is a HUGE difference! (about 20% in area!). I would prefer if they standardised it at 9.0mm or maybe 9.5mm, but they probably don't want that because the averages would be a little lower. I guess 10mm is the new (approx) standard which is perhaps a bit too easy for the top pros.
@@alanainsworth4832 That's another good point. Soft tip is 8ft. Steel tips USED to be 8ft. It is a round number, easy to remember, and probably wouldn't make that much difference in the averages. So would be good to make that the standard for all darts.
@@scottyc6341 Hi, yeah, I wrote that too quickly. I was thinking of a square, which would the area would be the square of the side. But since the width is the same, it is "only" 20% (I've edited the above!). Still a big difference.
@@clivedickinson550 Cool. The thing is the percentages stated in the video are also wrong. The % increase/decrease values should read Treble 16.16% Double 13.91% Wire -59.38% and Bull 6.25%. It is a difference but not as large as its made out. The wires on the old boards also move compared with todays boards, so that creates extra room too. I personally dont think it would have a huge difference on todays averages. I just think darts players today are better than their predecessors.
@@scottyc6341 Hi Scotty quite possible. I didn't look at Matts numbers very closely but just saw that they agreed with my own measurements which are ~8mm for old boards and 9.5-10mm for new boards. So it is about 15-20% difference (depends on whether it is increase or decrease). No need to go to even 1 decimal place given the scatter in measurements. BTW - embarrassingly, I am a professor of Physics (PhD in astrophysics) so I should be on top of these numbers! LOL But on your point about improvements in darts players: there is no doubt what you say is true but the difference is much less than people think because of these board areas which have gotten bigger over time (also equipment has improved generally, diamond wires etc. and darts themselves which also contributes). I do worry sometimes though about the very high level game which can even be a little boring to watch (too many 180s, 9-darters etc.).
@@Edgartvdarts Thanks. You also mentioned going for the 25 segment to start a 65 finish. Would you consider doing a video comparison of this 25 method vs the treble 15 method vs two singles and one dart at double method to see what is more effective?
A great video. I don't think I have ever thrown a dart at a modern board... Mind you, I'd still be as bloody awful at the game as I was back in my youth.
'old' style lol, i have been practising for years on a board like that. i get a lot more bounce outs but overall i think it makes me a bit better when playing on a 'new' official board.
Matt, how about you hang that retro board up and film yourself throwing at it to see how many bounce-outs you get, and how the extra wire & smaller segments affects your game?
I use one of these and my bounce outs are rediculous it makes me so mad when i was watching your video on bouce outs at the worlds im like 2.5 nrd's per 1000 thats cute 1 out of 3 here 💪💪😂😂
Makes Taylor's 100+ averages in tournaments like the 98 worlds all the more impressive.
I recall playing pub league on these ol' boards when I first started. Only staple board I have now are two Yorkshire boards and the bullseyes on them are horrible.
Would love to see you take something like 100 throws at each and see how it actually affects your average!
Good idea I like that
@@Edgartvdarts Would older darts also matter? Or is that difference less big?
@@arjanang I used to have a set of feathered wooden darts that used to be my grandads it's safe to say if I managed to get a dart in the bull it covers the whole bed
@@thebigspliffdaddy5470 weren't those called widdies? widdy's? not sure on the spelling...lol
@@quentinloutit582 "fucking things" is what I usually called them after throwing them
Not only all this, but many of the old-school players threw with big fat darts, and still got decent averages. Makes you realize how good they were.
Good video, that should people know when comparing nowadays players with those in the past
Fantastic content, your videos on equipment are on another level. Thank you
Interesting comparison . Especially after hours in Austin TX . But I was starting at my board and chucklin to myself cause I just yank all those thick wires off and make it sweet glow in the dark practice board for all hour and no bounce outs
I would love to see a pdc tournament with the fat wire board. Let's see how good the current crop of players are.
We were talking about this on Saturday, the point profile has changed. Now it’s more a needle point where back in the good old days you had a much more rounded point. This allowed the dart to slide off the wire rather than dig in like a modern point would do.
I'm in process of replacing the worn out bullseye with an add on pasty like a pink silicon nipple with an aeriola implant as well. Preferably non toxic? 4:13
I remember my old retro board, it had a red painted wooden bullseye that when hit was knocked out of the board and you had to continually put it back in.
What I remember most from the old boards is the staplseswires starting to come loose after only moderate use, and then having to prise out the staples and hammer them back in a different place to make them stay in.
I've got one of the RH Bobby George boards, it's got round wires but the sisal is great. Wish he made them still bit with blade wires.
Wow. I agree, that just goes to show how good Bristow, Lowe and B Anderson and the others were.
Shows how much better the players were back then. And Jocky Wilson was 10 pints deep 😮😅
My father used to practice on one of these wiry boards. I know because it is the same board I started on too. I wouldn’t be surprised if some here were still using one.
Great video Matthew, interesting to see those old boards compared to modern ones. I've only been playing darts for about a year and just play at home for fun. Can you do a video on how to quickly do the maths in darts, it always impresses me how quick the top guy's like yourself can think numbers so quick. I know it's practice, practice, practice but have you any tips to offer us?
another great video Matt ... now try throw the old brass darts into that board like we used to when I started playing 50+ years ago ;-) ..... we used to have the long feather flights and I remember when the new stems and flights appeared .. we thought they were kak in those days ;-)
Based on these differences, is there a way of inflating the averages of Lowe, Bristow etc to see how they’d perform on todays boards?
Thumbs up as always Matt. Top job 👍
Good content. Wonder if the wires on the old bull would ever act as guides (when they didn’t bounce out)
One of the local leqgue venues has two practice boards. A new one and a 30 year old warrior of a dartboard. Always practice on the old board rather than enter the queue for the new one.
Knight of Arms dartboard cabinet from Sears had a 12" dartboard. That is my retro dartboard. I still have it unopened.
Very interesting , definitely makes you appreciate how well the players actually were 30_40 years ago 👍
P.s good luck on the up coming challenge tour 👍
Very good 👍🏻Mine is somewhere between the new one and the old.
Good content think we discussed this the other day on stream 👍
Good luck in the Challenge Tour events this weekend 👍
Brilliant as usual
I have one of these boards downstairs and a blade 6 upstairs…that’s why Taylor is the best of all time in my eyes…did it in both eras averaging 100 on these absolute monstrosities
I'm not so sure if I agree that the measurements made on the old board reflect a reduced scoring area as you've shown. No doubt there's a higher chance of bounce outs on the old board but anything other than a centre hit on a wire will get directed into the nearest segment so I think the actual scoring areas are probably the best part of a mm bigger than indicated on the old board. Agree with the bullseye though, what nightmare!
Bounce outs on the round wire doesn't work like that, dart's bounce out on the curve also.
@@shaunrogers2256 I understand what you're saying as I had the privilege of playing in these boards years ago! To truly understand the impact of the round wire I think you'd have to analyse the bounce out rate of darts to be able to calculate how much of the bed the round wire truly occupies. As Matthew says, the wires will move, especially in a non-direct hit, so in my view the segments on the old board are bigger than what they might first appear. Presumably there would have been a step increase in averages when the blade wires were introduced if the segments were really that much bigger but I'm not sure if this is the case?
You're absolutely right. Everyone remembers the sound of these old boards. I mean hitting the wire with no bounce out. That was the soundtrack of darts back then. Along with the occasional quick side step to dodge a one coming at you from a springy wire. Anyway the actual active difference in area sizes is definitely much smaller than what the measures here tell you.
Are you doing the challenge tour Matt?
So when did those retro boards go out of PDC tournament play? What era are we giving a caveat to?
Great video, Matt. It'd interesting to see the modern players play on one of those old stapled boards. Just imagine the sort of averages people like Bristow, Wilson, and Lowe would've got if they'd played on a modern style board 🎯
Do you think the new wires are too thin? Less of an angle to deflect the darts in and instead seem to bounce off more.
I remember darts bouncing out beyond the oche, used to have to move out of the way or catch the dart.
Seen dart in the foot and hand before now that was funny
@@Edgartvdarts only if its an opponent!
Always wondered what the pros aim at if they want an outer bull as part of their checkout? Obviously, if you’re a pretty crap thrower like me, then it’s inner bull, pretty confident in the likelihood of not hitting it, but was interested in how a top player goes about it. Thanks.
I've been wondering the same thing
So we should practice on old boards??
I would like to see you play games on both boards just to see how much difference the wiring makes.
No doubt the modern boards are much better but I think the standard of play has dramatically increased too.
I will do this defo
How do they pick up the sound of the darts hitting the board on the tv tournaments ? Is there some sort of mic behind the board? I would like to see the setup they use
Will just be through the mic the mic holds
Got something similar to the Bar i go to on a Monday night and the amount of bounce outs i get is ridiculous! And to make it worse it's a solid floor and i got brand new CD grip points put in and I've snapped 2 within a month 😂
Cool video
Lovely dressing gown 🤣🤣🤣
That old board is actually really cool, were you lucky enough to meet Eric? Just showsnhow good he was
Good video about a VERY important point. The darts organisations, particularly PDC, should standardise these. In the past (BDO), 8.0mm was the standard as proven by your video. But modern boards are getting very close to 10mm which is a HUGE difference! (about 20% in area!). I would prefer if they standardised it at 9.0mm or maybe 9.5mm, but they probably don't want that because the averages would be a little lower. I guess 10mm is the new (approx) standard which is perhaps a bit too easy for the top pros.
Where do you get a 40% increase in area from?
@@alanainsworth4832 That's another good point. Soft tip is 8ft. Steel tips USED to be 8ft. It is a round number, easy to remember, and probably wouldn't make that much difference in the averages. So would be good to make that the standard for all darts.
@@scottyc6341 Hi, yeah, I wrote that too quickly. I was thinking of a square, which would the area would be the square of the side. But since the width is the same, it is "only" 20% (I've edited the above!). Still a big difference.
@@clivedickinson550 Cool. The thing is the percentages stated in the video are also wrong. The % increase/decrease values should read Treble 16.16% Double 13.91% Wire -59.38% and Bull 6.25%. It is a difference but not as large as its made out. The wires on the old boards also move compared with todays boards, so that creates extra room too. I personally dont think it would have a huge difference on todays averages. I just think darts players today are better than their predecessors.
@@scottyc6341 Hi Scotty quite possible. I didn't look at Matts numbers very closely but just saw that they agreed with my own measurements which are ~8mm for old boards and 9.5-10mm for new boards. So it is about 15-20% difference (depends on whether it is increase or decrease). No need to go to even 1 decimal place given the scatter in measurements. BTW - embarrassingly, I am a professor of Physics (PhD in astrophysics) so I should be on top of these numbers! LOL But on your point about improvements in darts players: there is no doubt what you say is true but the difference is much less than people think because of these board areas which have gotten bigger over time (also equipment has improved generally, diamond wires etc. and darts themselves which also contributes). I do worry sometimes though about the very high level game which can even be a little boring to watch (too many 180s, 9-darters etc.).
Very informative, though the treble area is actually almost 15% bigger on the retro boards than on the newer ones.
Do you mean the other way round?
@@PomBare No.
@@markjones7109 I don't understand, the vid says 15% the other way?
Great video Edgar 👍 how about doing a few hours/games on each board and sharing your stats? 🎯
Yeah I do like this idea
@@Edgartvdarts Thanks. You also mentioned going for the 25 segment to start a 65 finish. Would you consider doing a video comparison of this 25 method vs the treble 15 method vs two singles and one dart at double method to see what is more effective?
My big Question is do lstyle flights slow your dart down more than normal flights ? Can you answer that ?
Thornton darts needs to get that socket in his kitchen sorted just hanging off like that 😂
The old boards seem to last forever though!
When you see the side by side that old 25 looks a nightmare
100% minefield of wire
Eric Bristow is still the greatest darts player of all time. nearly 100aver on this board on a best of 11 sets match is absolut marveles.
That 25 on the old board looks like a no go zone. Id have more darts on the floor than in the board
Next video @Matthew edgar
Throw 100 darts at each bullseye work out the bounce out percentage
A great video. I don't think I have ever thrown a dart at a modern board... Mind you, I'd still be as bloody awful at the game as I was back in my youth.
Top video
I know in our Monday night league, if we turned up to an away fixture and they had an old board, it would be, wtf what decade are we even in!
Pro snooker tables have smaller pockets than club tables. I feel it should be the same for pro darts with smaller trebles etc.
'old' style lol, i have been practising for years on a board like that. i get a lot more bounce outs but overall i think it makes me a bit better when playing on a 'new' official board.
Matt, how about you hang that retro board up and film yourself throwing at it to see how many bounce-outs you get, and how the extra wire & smaller segments affects your game?
Yeah I’ll do something with me throwing at it for sure seems a very popular idea
When did they invent the board without staples?
Was it not Winmau in the late 90s with the first Blade?
Nice video but the percentage changes are not correct for the values shown in the table.
I thought so too. The % values should read Treble 16.16% Double 13.91% Wire -59.38 and Bull 6.25%.
I use one of these and my bounce outs are rediculous it makes me so mad when i was watching your video on bouce outs at the worlds im like 2.5 nrd's per 1000 thats cute 1 out of 3 here 💪💪😂😂
Another reason you can’t compare different eras in darts is due to equipment being tougher back in the day, boards and darts.
Matt any plans on competing in the WDF which is coming up?
Yes I’ll be doing a few events
should make the Senior Tour use the Retro board lol
The Winmau Master board quickly separated the men from boys.
Guy in the pink dressing gown is fit
That 84,4 is off i believe from the top of my hat is should be about -60ish percent
Any idea when the crossover was between round-wire and diamond-wire boards? And was there a notable increase in averages?
It’s been slowly getting small for years think the blade was the first to go this way. Blade 2 was a standout board years ago
Very interesting and they were three parts pis.ed too 😂
New subscriber so you’ve Probably been asked this before……..do you not fancy doing your own podcast to compliment this channel?
Wouldn’t know how to do it tbh
@@Edgartvdarts shame you’d be good at it
At least the wires were bomb proof, all my blades fell to pieces in not long at all.
Retro boards last longer than the modern boards ....
This is true the spider wire system does take away from its life expectancy
Please get a good mic
Can’t get much better than the yeti