Thanks for bringing up the topic. This is one of the big struggles we've always had in our project where we archive music from real hardware. One issue I think you've missed in the video is the entire discussion about the end users of those soundtracks. A long argument could be made about what the track titles should be, but what we did in our project was always put a reference to which point in the game the music was being played back plus, eventually, the original track title. The reasoning behind this has various layers, but the most important one is that people need to *find* those tracks in the first place. When you have track names such as Green Hill Zone from Sonic 1 the choice is easy because someone will remember the name of the zone and look for it on RUclips/Google/etc., but what happens if the original title track has no reference to what is happening in the game? One example is "Into the Zone" from Comix Zone. The title gives no clue about what's happening in the game or where it is being played. This is the music played when you're in the options screen which means that someone looking for this particular track, will probably looks for something like "Comix Zone Option music". Proper naming (and tagging, where possible) ensures that the track will be found. Here are some examples on how we named tracks in Comix Zone: 02 - Options (Into the Zone) 04 - Episode 1, Page 1-1 (this one has no "original" track name) 05 - Episode 1, Page 1-2 (Seen it for Days) This is a pretty extreme example, but unless the title track is *really* well known, we always try to put context into the track title.
Now that you mention it, I wish I had added a section about this. Even some official releases will add context to their titles (like in DKC2, where the OST actually put the level name in parentheses next to the "real" title)
The role of an archivist in the digital era is gravely underrated. Many people tend to think that as long as something's uploaded on the Internet it becomes eternal, and that's very naive. A video, a file, an Internet page can disappear in an instant for a multitude of reasons (lack of a mantainer, site updates, legal disputes, digital rights management), and with it, the memory of it. So, thanks to everyone who helps preserve the memories!
that "it's uploaded on the internet it becomes eternal' Is one of the biggest false memes, I remember hearing this all the time in the mid-00s, I remember all the internet safety PSA saying this, there are many people who have semi-successfully wiped off their internet presence, You can check out "lost media wiki" and see their large section on lost flash games and other lost internet media (forums, videos etc). So much content I consumed in the mid-00s seems to be totally gone.
A perfect example of fan-names becoming "official" is with the Adventures of Batman and Robin for the Genesis. The text file for the rip on Project2612 says it all: "1.50 - Added official Track Names - these were found on a fansite, but Jesper Kyd himself has linked to them on his official site, making these names official in my eyes." Thus the very confidently named "Dark Studio??" was immortalized.
I always found it odd how little influence the composers had over their own creations for video games, at least for older titles. I guess back then the music was more of an afterthought, or rather just a necessity. It must be strange for the composers of these to look back on what they may have considered inconsequential being so fondly remembered and highly regarded all this time later.
Game companies screwed up in-house composers pretty much like big record labels stripping them from royalties and usage rights. Hajime Hirasawa left Nintendo after discovering that Nintendo owned his iconic Star Fox score. Big Names like Yuzo koshiro, Masato Nakamura and Koichi Sugiyama have control over their compositions. Nakamura himself benefits financially each time the Sonic theme is used in a project. People like Koji Kondo or Uematsu in other hand don't.
I can go ahead and confirm that for you: every composer I've talked to finds it strange that the song they barely thought about 20+ years ago became a fondly remembered anthem. The reactions range from "extremely flattered" to "kind of frustrated because that was literally my worst work, wtf".
@@ChaunceyGardener One thing that seems to happen is that whenever a composer has full rights to a game soundtrack, it tends to be harder to bring the tracks back in future titles, resulting in replacements that don't sound right.
Nice video! I was one of the maintainers and primary rippers for Project 2612 back in the day (back when I went by DJ Squarewave) and it's always a hit of nostalgia when I'm reminded that work is still having an impact today. This is basically exactly the process we went through to name tracks in rips. Official OSTs took priority (and were much more difficult to come by in 2006), then sound test titles, titles from other rips, and finally in-game level names/descriptions as last resort. That said, the most important thing was making sure the music itself was correctly ripped, titles were generally a secondary concern.
@@FultonRecovery tl;dr Basically make sure every track is present, complete, and plays/loops without errors. I can't really speak more generally, but in our particular case, we were manually looping ripped tracks so we needed to make sure they looped properly and included the full track. I also remember games that wouldn't properly start tracks in some cases, or wouldn't include all the songs in the sound test. Finding ways to keep sound effects off in games with no sound test was also a common concern. Even had to use debuggers and hacked savestates to trigger songs in some cases. It was a lot of work, but I was in university so I had a lot of free time too. :)
OMG DJ Squarewave! I remember you from Project2612. Thank you so much for all your work, it was massive and incredibly time consuming at the time to rip and manually trim and loop each track. Most of the Project2612 gang has moved onto Discord, we have Dark Pulse, Valleybell and others in there, would you like to join?
Thank you very much for this video. I've had that question myself ever since I found out that Mining Melancholy from Donkey Kong Country 2 is one of the songs from the game, if not the only, that hasn't been released in any official capacity, and thus the only one without an official name. It's impressive to think that somewhere someone ripped that song from the game and came up with a name that would later become THE name for that track.
Classic example from recently: the famous Beach theme from Plok by Tim Follin. But is that really what it's supposed to be called? Apparently not- the name of the song is A Line In The Sand, as seen in the Cassette and Vinyl releases of the soundtrack. So why don't people use that name? Well, those physical releases of Plok's soundtrack only came out two years ago, which when compared to the 17 years that passed since the original SPC rips of Plok is a very long time. What happens now, then? Do we go to every person who has uploaded or covered the song as Beach and pester them to change it to A Line In The Sand? I don't think that's feasible, and for games like Plok we might have to be content with official names existing but continuing to be known by their 'fan' names. The song 'Run It Up The Flagpole And See If Anyone Salutes' most likely will continue to be known as 'Stage Clear' for the foreseeable future, but that's just the way it is sometimes.
Oh man, yeah this is an insane example. A sizable contrast with the DKC trilogy: Those OSTs came out within a year of each game, so the official names have been around for ~25 years, before the rips (and fan titles) were even created, much less had time to propagate. It also helps that the OST names fit nicely into the progression of names. "Aquatic Ambiance" is simply a better title than "Water Level". DKC2's "Stickerbrush Symphony" also included the level name in parentheses.
I know the latest kirby series games have sound tests that indirectly credit the individual composers: not with a name, but the colour of the screen when playing each song is specific to each composer. Weirdly roundabout if you ask me, but still pretty neat.
Here's my own commentary on my own methodology. My own technique for track names were generally by usage in the game, and gameplay was also how I ordered the tracks for the most part. I also have an excellent mixed use case where I did both: Down the World. This one is a combination of my own tracknames (usually based off of the area of the game) and actual OST tracknames... but the OST itself was incomplete. I also didn't use all of the OST tracknames due to gameplay usage sometimes being earlier. Also, I have a backlog of composer info that hasn't made it onto the site... and some of my own errors, too...
Another mixed use case is Sangokushi Seishi - Tenbu Spirits. Most of the tracks were in the OST (and unlike Down the World, for which I went to the Soundtrack Central forums, I actually found a way to listen to this one online via a video link)... but both Battle and Ending were not there to my knowledge, and thus I named them by game usage.
I was just about to say that I know I named quite a few soundtracks on Project2612. (A few of them, like Shining Force II, I'd even take a mulligan on, since I only found official OSTs for it well after the rip was done - believe me, I searched!) It was quite the pleasant surprise seeing that you name-dropped me though. Thanks. :)
There's a really fascinating quote by Hirokazu Ando, the composer for many Kirby games, that I think about a lot when it comes to the relationship between composers and song titles. He wrote this on a Miiverse post for Kirby Triple Deluxe in 2014: "Hello everyone! Kirby: Triple Deluxe has a wide variety of characters, stages, items and features - each with a unique name. Because the images these names conjure up play a role in building Kirby’s world within players' minds, a lot of effort goes into not only the creation of the game features but into naming them too. Of course, this goes for the game's music as well, but actually I'm not very good at coming up with names, so I don't name songs during development. You can see what happens if I do by looking at songs from previous games, with uninspired titles like 'Kumonomen' (lit. Cloud Level). :P Song titles really are important for boosting the game's imagery though, so recently I've left naming songs up to the game's director, especially for more prominent songs. Basically, because I feel names are so important, I'd rather they were chosen by the director, who has a deep knowledge of the game and is a lot better at coming up with catchy titles! From recent fan feedback, it seems like this policy is working out. Song titles aren't displayed in Sound Test, partly because we were worried they might not be final. It might sound strange to say ‘We decided not to display song names because they are so important,’ but if the wrong name does get out there, it forever becomes a part of Kirby history. Besides, if we had the resources to name more than 100 tracks, we would rather use them to improve the game in other ways." web.archive.org/web/20170730215540/miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHj4zu2bZQ It's fascinating to me because it shows that, while game composers often don't have control over the song titles, sometimes they don't mind if they don't have that control - you can see that in the video with many songs just having placeholder names. Older Kirby games tend to have sparse or generic song titles, while more recent ones have names chosen by Shinya Kumazaki (the game director), and you can see the contrast there: take "Cloud Level" versus "Vagrant Counting Song of Retrospection". Kirby games are some of the few modern-day games I can think of that still have a dedicated Sound Test menu, and they credit the composers of each song with colored music notes, which is a nice touch, I think. They unfortunately don't display the song names due to the reasons Ando stated, and that can lead to some common misconceptions among fans... For example, a song titled "Another Dimension" by fans is officially named "Fly! Kirby of the Stars", while another song fan-nicknamed "Looming Darkness" is officially "Another Dimension" - confusing, right? But ultimately, it's cool that the developers care enough about the music to make sure each song is given its proper credit and a fitting name. I really enjoyed seeing your input on the topic, and the greater point that fans are often the only ones who end up documenting song names at all.
oh fascinating, I hadn't seen that! "We decided not to display song names because they are so important" actually makes a lot of sense but wow what a double-edged sword, lol
Love that Oval example, Szenariodisk is a unique album. Also only you could spot a shared track title to Zool 2. Incredible research and archiving, your work is appreciated
I've been enjoying Oval a lot lately! them and other turn-of-the-century clicks n glitch embracing music. And I can't take all the credit for the Loaded and Zool 2 track: Neil pointed this out in a soundcloud comment ;)
It truly is a wonderful thing that the community of VGM preservation is doing! It’s great to see the care that goes into the details of each ost (i.e. the version updates on VGMRips with accurate renaming of tracks, composer info and timing to name a few). I know everyone is loving That Zeal remix but I’m more in to “On the Phone” from Dial Q! Thanks for introducing a new jam for my ears to enjoy! Keep up your awesome work!
Gotta love how in Plants vs Zombies 2, most tracks are named after their world and the wave they play at except 2. The Ultimate Battle theme (remix of the pvz 1 song) and the minigame theme (known unofficially online as Demonstration Mini Game)
I wish more game composers got the credit they deserve. I’m ripping Animal Crossing games right now and only some of the songs' composers are known from sparse CD releases, interviews, or maybe hints in the credits. Apparently Super Mario 3D World had a short suffix for each track that indicated its composer, which is cool.
This reminds me of how the common SPC rip of the Mega Man X2 soundtrack has evocative, flowery titles such as "Sinister Gleam" or "Panzer des Drachens" or "Red Alert", whereas the only official titles for those songs I can find are simply the Japanese names for the mavericks (so "CRISTAR MYMINE STAGE", "WHEEL ALLIGATES STAGE ", and "MAGNE HYAKULEGGER STAGE" for the prior examples). I don't know who came up with those unofficial (?) titles, but I just want them to know that I love them.
I had the same revelation with the MM4 soundtrack rip that had cool names like "Twenty Thousand Leagues" for Dive Man's theme. Then you look at the official albums and you get... oh, DIVE MAN STAGE. orz
I just remembered that I did this myself with the Dynowarz (NES) soundtrack when I tagged the NSFE ages ago, and at least one source out there has adopted those silly names! (the Wii Guy's "8-bit stereo" rip)
To make things even more confusing.. I first heard Groove on a Corpse/Track7 on Mod Station years ago. Zool 2 and Zool CD32 have different soundtracks but similar names. Mod Station listed it as Track 7, but a youtube playlist for the CD32 shows Track7 as Mental Blockage. The Jaguar version of the game also has a Mental Blockage.. but it's completely different. Snaking Pass which was reused in Loaded as Feel The Pain is also different on the Jaguar version as well. And technically we can't even call them the same songs because Groove on a Corpse has a breakbeat instead of Zool 2's percussion. What a mess.
oh yeah, that's another really annoying and hard to avoid issue: track numbers are often shifted around because, in any game with a redbook soundtrack, the first track is data. "Track 2" on the CD is "Track 1" of music. absolutely confusing.
I wish I earned a cent for every sweet comment I’ve read on that song… and it would come out of the bank of the fool that named it Groove on a Corpse. I was trying to write something romantic at the time, never expected it to end up in a video game or 30 years later on some worldwide VHS system like this 🤣
I really enjoyed this. I had never considered the active thought processes that go into properly archiving video game music. Keep up the great content and looking forward to the next mix!
I really like how that Zeal outro sounds when put through a tape deck. Also, Chris J. Hampton is actually Beek, that same tracker guy. If only we could find the original .IT file for the Zeal remix...
I'm very much a purist in this sense: I wouldn't make up names for tracks if they had no original names. To me "Unused Track 1" would be the name for the track in the Megarace OST. Otherwise, we risk too many different names come up for the same track. I just see it as a curiosity of history that the tracks back then might've been a little duller.
You just made me check my RUclips upload of the Time Trax soundtrack - I literally ripped it from hardware as soon as the ROM came out. I literally just titled them Track 01 to Track 06. Needless to say, I'm pretty sure my titles didn't catch on.
@@GSTChannelVEVO i looked up the song you listed, and it really does not sound like what you've used in the video, thats why i asked. is it slowed down or something or am i just crazy and is it clearly the same song.?
One of the rarest things to see on an album is a credit for who named the songs. It's definitely become a little more common recently, with many SQUARE ENIX albums including it, as well as YUZO KOSHIRO EARLY COLLECTION BOX, the KanColle OSTs, etc. The WILD ARMS albums also gave that credit in the 2000's. The earliest game album to credit the titler, I think, was Romancing Sa·Ga 2/Eternal Romance in 1994, Kaoru Moriyama who also wrote lyrics. One that I remembered personally was NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams and Original Soundtrack and NiGHTS into dreams… PERFECT ALBUM for giving a "Naming Overtures" credit to Ryoichi Hasegawa. I don't know if that means he wrote all the titles or just titles for the cutscenes, but it was great to see. I also remembered that, in Skies of Arcadia Eternal Soundtrack, the game's directed and plot writer reminiscenced about naming the songs on the original Eternal Arcadia album.
That's nice to know that you're willing to share this kind of information. Kind of reminds me of the partially found 1988 French interstitial animated series Virgul where the uploaders would title the episodes after the main theme of that episode since no actual titles were given to those episodes officially(or so we assume, the makers of the show haven't been contacted yet). We also have Space Cats, which seems to have some kind of debate over which title is correct, which isn't. Honestly though, it brings up the possibility that there were more episodes than what NBC aired. I know these aren't about video game music, but this is the closest thing I can think of.
@@GSTChannelVEVO You know, maybe we could do something like that as well. I know a feel of them that are like that, & I want to come up with titles for them.
This is always my least favorite bit about working with older VGM. I always want to make sure that I have the undisputed "correct" names for any arrangements or transcriptions of songs I do, but the lack of info for the vast majority of games and the occasional conflicting info from different sources makes trying to pinpoint the right name a nightmare. Often, I end up having to settle for what "seems" the most correct, rather than what might actually be correct. The people that work at places like VGMDB I consider saints for their work. ...and don't even get me STARTED on getting composer credits right. (Looking at you, Konami)
it's a weird set of games! the soundtracks match, broadly, but some songs are unique to each version... unless you hack it and uncover the unused stuff. the song titles are completely scrambled on the two versions that show titles (Genesis and 3DO). Also, the 3DO version is just a recording from a SC-55 with some extra reverb, which isn't inherently bad but I'd like to have heard more lol
It's an incredibly vintage ocremix. I'd say "it was posted closer to the release of chrono trigger than today" but it's no contest (5 years vs 21 years) ocremix.org/remix/OCR00088
@@GSTChannelVEVO Awesome, thank you. You should totally release the full version that was recorded on your tape deck. I love the lo-fi vibe it gives off.
What about the cases where the composer insists that the songs don't have names because they're supposed to only be heard in the context of the game? (I'd still love to know what titles Ruminant's Whimper would give to the music of Hellsinker...)
I honestly can't stand it when people make up "official sounding" names for songs. It seems pompous to take that upon yourself to do, and it typically just muddies things and makes it harder to find what you're looking for. Snesmusic is the only place that really does this though, thankfully enough. (Their Mega Man X2 rip kills me. It don't even match the other MM rips on the site!)
There are still way too many unripped Genesis soundtracks. It's abit disappointing, but I can't say that I'm a great help either. I also think it's perfectly fine to say "this is the water level/stage one/1-2 theme: bramble ambience". It can be both or either or neither.
Thanks for bringing up the topic. This is one of the big struggles we've always had in our project where we archive music from real hardware. One issue I think you've missed in the video is the entire discussion about the end users of those soundtracks.
A long argument could be made about what the track titles should be, but what we did in our project was always put a reference to which point in the game the music was being played back plus, eventually, the original track title.
The reasoning behind this has various layers, but the most important one is that people need to *find* those tracks in the first place.
When you have track names such as Green Hill Zone from Sonic 1 the choice is easy because someone will remember the name of the zone and look for it on RUclips/Google/etc., but what happens if the original title track has no reference to what is happening in the game?
One example is "Into the Zone" from Comix Zone. The title gives no clue about what's happening in the game or where it is being played. This is the music played when you're in the options screen which means that someone looking for this particular track, will probably looks for something like "Comix Zone Option music". Proper naming (and tagging, where possible) ensures that the track will be found.
Here are some examples on how we named tracks in Comix Zone:
02 - Options (Into the Zone)
04 - Episode 1, Page 1-1
(this one has no "original" track name)
05 - Episode 1, Page 1-2 (Seen it for Days)
This is a pretty extreme example, but unless the title track is *really* well known, we always try to put context into the track title.
Now that you mention it, I wish I had added a section about this.
Even some official releases will add context to their titles (like in DKC2, where the OST actually put the level name in parentheses next to the "real" title)
The role of an archivist in the digital era is gravely underrated. Many people tend to think that as long as something's uploaded on the Internet it becomes eternal, and that's very naive. A video, a file, an Internet page can disappear in an instant for a multitude of reasons (lack of a mantainer, site updates, legal disputes, digital rights management), and with it, the memory of it. So, thanks to everyone who helps preserve the memories!
that "it's uploaded on the internet it becomes eternal' Is one of the biggest false memes, I remember hearing this all the time in the mid-00s, I remember all the internet safety PSA saying this, there are many people who have semi-successfully wiped off their internet presence, You can check out "lost media wiki" and see their large section on lost flash games and other lost internet media (forums, videos etc). So much content I consumed in the mid-00s seems to be totally gone.
A perfect example of fan-names becoming "official" is with the Adventures of Batman and Robin for the Genesis. The text file for the rip on Project2612 says it all:
"1.50 - Added official Track Names - these were
found on a fansite, but Jesper Kyd himself has linked to them on his official site, making these names official in my eyes."
Thus the very confidently named "Dark Studio??" was immortalized.
I always found it odd how little influence the composers had over their own creations for video games, at least for older titles. I guess back then the music was more of an afterthought, or rather just a necessity. It must be strange for the composers of these to look back on what they may have considered inconsequential being so fondly remembered and highly regarded all this time later.
Game companies screwed up in-house composers pretty much like big record labels stripping them from royalties and usage rights. Hajime Hirasawa left Nintendo after discovering that Nintendo owned his iconic Star Fox score. Big Names like Yuzo koshiro, Masato Nakamura and Koichi Sugiyama have control over their compositions. Nakamura himself benefits financially each time the Sonic theme is used in a project. People like Koji Kondo or Uematsu in other hand don't.
I can go ahead and confirm that for you: every composer I've talked to finds it strange that the song they barely thought about 20+ years ago became a fondly remembered anthem. The reactions range from "extremely flattered" to "kind of frustrated because that was literally my worst work, wtf".
@@ChaunceyGardener One thing that seems to happen is that whenever a composer has full rights to a game soundtrack, it tends to be harder to bring the tracks back in future titles, resulting in replacements that don't sound right.
Nice video! I was one of the maintainers and primary rippers for Project 2612 back in the day (back when I went by DJ Squarewave) and it's always a hit of nostalgia when I'm reminded that work is still having an impact today. This is basically exactly the process we went through to name tracks in rips. Official OSTs took priority (and were much more difficult to come by in 2006), then sound test titles, titles from other rips, and finally in-game level names/descriptions as last resort. That said, the most important thing was making sure the music itself was correctly ripped, titles were generally a secondary concern.
what goes into making sure an ost is "'properly" ripped? like what are the typical concerns
@@FultonRecovery tl;dr Basically make sure every track is present, complete, and plays/loops without errors.
I can't really speak more generally, but in our particular case, we were manually looping ripped tracks so we needed to make sure they looped properly and included the full track. I also remember games that wouldn't properly start tracks in some cases, or wouldn't include all the songs in the sound test. Finding ways to keep sound effects off in games with no sound test was also a common concern. Even had to use debuggers and hacked savestates to trigger songs in some cases. It was a lot of work, but I was in university so I had a lot of free time too. :)
OMG DJ Squarewave! I remember you from Project2612. Thank you so much for all your work, it was massive and incredibly time consuming at the time to rip and manually trim and loop each track.
Most of the Project2612 gang has moved onto Discord, we have Dark Pulse, Valleybell and others in there, would you like to join?
I remember a few other names. :)
@@16bap I haven't been in that scene for over a decade and don't really do Discord, but thank you for the invite all the same!
Thank you very much for this video. I've had that question myself ever since I found out that Mining Melancholy from Donkey Kong Country 2 is one of the songs from the game, if not the only, that hasn't been released in any official capacity, and thus the only one without an official name. It's impressive to think that somewhere someone ripped that song from the game and came up with a name that would later become THE name for that track.
Classic example from recently: the famous Beach theme from Plok by Tim Follin. But is that really what it's supposed to be called? Apparently not- the name of the song is A Line In The Sand, as seen in the Cassette and Vinyl releases of the soundtrack.
So why don't people use that name? Well, those physical releases of Plok's soundtrack only came out two years ago, which when compared to the 17 years that passed since the original SPC rips of Plok is a very long time.
What happens now, then? Do we go to every person who has uploaded or covered the song as Beach and pester them to change it to A Line In The Sand? I don't think that's feasible, and for games like Plok we might have to be content with official names existing but continuing to be known by their 'fan' names.
The song 'Run It Up The Flagpole And See If Anyone Salutes' most likely will continue to be known as 'Stage Clear' for the foreseeable future, but that's just the way it is sometimes.
Oh man, yeah this is an insane example.
A sizable contrast with the DKC trilogy: Those OSTs came out within a year of each game, so the official names have been around for ~25 years, before the rips (and fan titles) were even created, much less had time to propagate.
It also helps that the OST names fit nicely into the progression of names. "Aquatic Ambiance" is simply a better title than "Water Level". DKC2's "Stickerbrush Symphony" also included the level name in parentheses.
The same case basically happened with Kirby’s Return to Dreamland and its remake, with Deluxe giving the official names of all the tracks
Man, this video was sickk. It shows to what lengths you go to have video game music preservation down to an exact science. Bravo.
I know the latest kirby series games have sound tests that indirectly credit the individual composers: not with a name, but the colour of the screen when playing each song is specific to each composer. Weirdly roundabout if you ask me, but still pretty neat.
Damn, this was really informative. Thanks for clearing a lot of this up. Had no idea this was such a big issue.
oooh love that Corridors of Time Remix, could vibe to that all day
Yeah I’m going to need a link to that wherever it may be
Here's my own commentary on my own methodology. My own technique for track names were generally by usage in the game, and gameplay was also how I ordered the tracks for the most part. I also have an excellent mixed use case where I did both: Down the World. This one is a combination of my own tracknames (usually based off of the area of the game) and actual OST tracknames... but the OST itself was incomplete. I also didn't use all of the OST tracknames due to gameplay usage sometimes being earlier. Also, I have a backlog of composer info that hasn't made it onto the site... and some of my own errors, too...
Another mixed use case is Sangokushi Seishi - Tenbu Spirits. Most of the tracks were in the OST (and unlike Down the World, for which I went to the Soundtrack Central forums, I actually found a way to listen to this one online via a video link)... but both Battle and Ending were not there to my knowledge, and thus I named them by game usage.
I was just about to say that I know I named quite a few soundtracks on Project2612. (A few of them, like Shining Force II, I'd even take a mulligan on, since I only found official OSTs for it well after the rip was done - believe me, I searched!)
It was quite the pleasant surprise seeing that you name-dropped me though. Thanks. :)
There's a really fascinating quote by Hirokazu Ando, the composer for many Kirby games, that I think about a lot when it comes to the relationship between composers and song titles. He wrote this on a Miiverse post for Kirby Triple Deluxe in 2014:
"Hello everyone! Kirby: Triple Deluxe has a wide variety of characters, stages, items and features - each with a unique name. Because the images these names conjure up play a role in building Kirby’s world within players' minds, a lot of effort goes into not only the creation of the game features but into naming them too.
Of course, this goes for the game's music as well, but actually I'm not very good at coming up with names, so I don't name songs during development. You can see what happens if I do by looking at songs from previous games, with uninspired titles like 'Kumonomen' (lit. Cloud Level). :P
Song titles really are important for boosting the game's imagery though, so recently I've left naming songs up to the game's director, especially for more prominent songs. Basically, because I feel names are so important, I'd rather they were chosen by the director, who has a deep knowledge of the game and is a lot better at coming up with catchy titles! From recent fan feedback, it seems like this policy is working out.
Song titles aren't displayed in Sound Test, partly because we were worried they might not be final. It might sound strange to say ‘We decided not to display song names because they are so important,’ but if the wrong name does get out there, it forever becomes a part of Kirby history. Besides, if we had the resources to name more than 100 tracks, we would rather use them to improve the game in other ways."
web.archive.org/web/20170730215540/miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHj4zu2bZQ
It's fascinating to me because it shows that, while game composers often don't have control over the song titles, sometimes they don't mind if they don't have that control - you can see that in the video with many songs just having placeholder names. Older Kirby games tend to have sparse or generic song titles, while more recent ones have names chosen by Shinya Kumazaki (the game director), and you can see the contrast there: take "Cloud Level" versus "Vagrant Counting Song of Retrospection".
Kirby games are some of the few modern-day games I can think of that still have a dedicated Sound Test menu, and they credit the composers of each song with colored music notes, which is a nice touch, I think. They unfortunately don't display the song names due to the reasons Ando stated, and that can lead to some common misconceptions among fans... For example, a song titled "Another Dimension" by fans is officially named "Fly! Kirby of the Stars", while another song fan-nicknamed "Looming Darkness" is officially "Another Dimension" - confusing, right?
But ultimately, it's cool that the developers care enough about the music to make sure each song is given its proper credit and a fitting name. I really enjoyed seeing your input on the topic, and the greater point that fans are often the only ones who end up documenting song names at all.
oh fascinating, I hadn't seen that!
"We decided not to display song names because they are so important" actually makes a lot of sense but wow what a double-edged sword, lol
Love that Oval example, Szenariodisk is a unique album. Also only you could spot a shared track title to Zool 2. Incredible research and archiving, your work is appreciated
I've been enjoying Oval a lot lately! them and other turn-of-the-century clicks n glitch embracing music.
And I can't take all the credit for the Loaded and Zool 2 track: Neil pointed this out in a soundcloud comment ;)
It truly is a wonderful thing that the community of VGM preservation is doing! It’s great to see the care that goes into the details of each ost (i.e. the version updates on VGMRips with accurate renaming of tracks, composer info and timing to name a few). I know everyone is loving That Zeal remix but I’m more in to “On the Phone” from Dial Q! Thanks for introducing a new jam for my ears to enjoy! Keep up your awesome work!
I’d love to hear more songs run through your tape deck, it sounds so warm lol
Love this kind of videos, showng what no one else shows. Great job!!
Gotta love how in Plants vs Zombies 2, most tracks are named after their world and the wave they play at except 2. The Ultimate Battle theme (remix of the pvz 1 song) and the minigame theme (known unofficially online as Demonstration Mini Game)
Aww it's so sad when composers don't name their songs, they really should!
- Me, a composer who doesn't name his songs
I wish more game composers got the credit they deserve. I’m ripping Animal Crossing games right now and only some of the songs' composers are known from sparse CD releases, interviews, or maybe hints in the credits. Apparently Super Mario 3D World had a short suffix for each track that indicated its composer, which is cool.
The Tape deck adds so much texture to the already great remix. wish there was an output plugin to replicate this on pc
4:20 the way he says "da doodoo" kills me
This reminds me of how the common SPC rip of the Mega Man X2 soundtrack has evocative, flowery titles such as "Sinister Gleam" or "Panzer des Drachens" or "Red Alert", whereas the only official titles for those songs I can find are simply the Japanese names for the mavericks (so "CRISTAR MYMINE STAGE", "WHEEL ALLIGATES STAGE
", and "MAGNE HYAKULEGGER STAGE" for the prior examples).
I don't know who came up with those unofficial (?) titles, but I just want them to know that I love them.
I had the same revelation with the MM4 soundtrack rip that had cool names like "Twenty Thousand Leagues" for Dive Man's theme. Then you look at the official albums and you get... oh, DIVE MAN STAGE. orz
I just remembered that I did this myself with the Dynowarz (NES) soundtrack when I tagged the NSFE ages ago, and at least one source out there has adopted those silly names! (the Wii Guy's "8-bit stereo" rip)
To make things even more confusing.. I first heard Groove on a Corpse/Track7 on Mod Station years ago. Zool 2 and Zool CD32 have different soundtracks but similar names. Mod Station listed it as Track 7, but a youtube playlist for the CD32 shows Track7 as Mental Blockage. The Jaguar version of the game also has a Mental Blockage.. but it's completely different. Snaking Pass which was reused in Loaded as Feel The Pain is also different on the Jaguar version as well. And technically we can't even call them the same songs because Groove on a Corpse has a breakbeat instead of Zool 2's percussion. What a mess.
oh yeah, that's another really annoying and hard to avoid issue: track numbers are often shifted around because, in any game with a redbook soundtrack, the first track is data. "Track 2" on the CD is "Track 1" of music. absolutely confusing.
I wish I earned a cent for every sweet comment I’ve read on that song… and it would come out of the bank of the fool that named it Groove on a Corpse. I was trying to write something romantic at the time, never expected it to end up in a video game or 30 years later on some worldwide VHS system like this 🤣
I really enjoyed this. I had never considered the active thought processes that go into properly archiving video game music.
Keep up the great content and looking forward to the next mix!
I really like how that Zeal outro sounds when put through a tape deck.
Also, Chris J. Hampton is actually Beek, that same tracker guy.
If only we could find the original .IT file for the Zeal remix...
This is a very interesting topic. I guess I sorta knew about the issue, but never really thought of it until now. Great overview!
I'm very much a purist in this sense: I wouldn't make up names for tracks if they had no original names. To me "Unused Track 1" would be the name for the track in the Megarace OST. Otherwise, we risk too many different names come up for the same track. I just see it as a curiosity of history that the tracks back then might've been a little duller.
Ah yes, my favorite songs, Music 02 from Time Trax and O-SAMPO from Vib Ribbon
You just made me check my RUclips upload of the Time Trax soundtrack - I literally ripped it from hardware as soon as the ROM came out.
I literally just titled them Track 01 to Track 06.
Needless to say, I'm pretty sure my titles didn't catch on.
I don't mind titles that are just "Stage 1". It makes it really easy to find what I'm looking for.
this is my favorite yt channel, vgm preservation is so interesting
That Zeal remix is so good
hey, you dont have the song at 3:34 and onward listed, what is it? great video btw
It's totally listed in the description? Mount Ices from the CD32 version of Zool 2
alternatively, see 4:45 for alternate titles
@@GSTChannelVEVO i looked up the song you listed, and it really does not sound like what you've used in the video, thats why i asked. is it slowed down or something or am i just crazy and is it clearly the same song.?
@@metrolynn973 yeah the track isn't on youtube as far as I can tell. check it out on neil's soundcloud: soundcloud.com/tofino-hifi/track-7
One of the rarest things to see on an album is a credit for who named the songs. It's definitely become a little more common recently, with many SQUARE ENIX albums including it, as well as YUZO KOSHIRO EARLY COLLECTION BOX, the KanColle OSTs, etc. The WILD ARMS albums also gave that credit in the 2000's. The earliest game album to credit the titler, I think, was Romancing Sa·Ga 2/Eternal Romance in 1994, Kaoru Moriyama who also wrote lyrics.
One that I remembered personally was NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams and Original Soundtrack and NiGHTS into dreams… PERFECT ALBUM for giving a "Naming Overtures" credit to Ryoichi Hasegawa. I don't know if that means he wrote all the titles or just titles for the cutscenes, but it was great to see. I also remembered that, in Skies of Arcadia Eternal Soundtrack, the game's directed and plot writer reminiscenced about naming the songs on the original Eternal Arcadia album.
That's nice to know that you're willing to share this kind of information. Kind of reminds me of the partially found 1988 French interstitial animated series Virgul where the uploaders would title the episodes after the main theme of that episode since no actual titles were given to those episodes officially(or so we assume, the makers of the show haven't been contacted yet). We also have Space Cats, which seems to have some kind of debate over which title is correct, which isn't. Honestly though, it brings up the possibility that there were more episodes than what NBC aired. I know these aren't about video game music, but this is the closest thing I can think of.
it's a similar experience!
if no titles are given, then the fans will make one up, if just so they can more easily talk about the media they like.
@@GSTChannelVEVO You know, maybe we could do something like that as well. I know a feel of them that are like that, & I want to come up with titles for them.
2:06 massively missed opportunity for the Tyrian jukebox. (When's Alexander Brandon getting a spotlight episode?!)
Very nice vid. Keep up the great work. 👍
This is always my least favorite bit about working with older VGM. I always want to make sure that I have the undisputed "correct" names for any arrangements or transcriptions of songs I do, but the lack of info for the vast majority of games and the occasional conflicting info from different sources makes trying to pinpoint the right name a nightmare. Often, I end up having to settle for what "seems" the most correct, rather than what might actually be correct. The people that work at places like VGMDB I consider saints for their work.
...and don't even get me STARTED on getting composer credits right. (Looking at you, Konami)
I take it the 3DO port of Jammit is really doing the dirty work these days
it's a weird set of games! the soundtracks match, broadly, but some songs are unique to each version... unless you hack it and uncover the unused stuff. the song titles are completely scrambled on the two versions that show titles (Genesis and 3DO).
Also, the 3DO version is just a recording from a SC-55 with some extra reverb, which isn't inherently bad but I'd like to have heard more lol
Where'd you find that Corridors of Time remix? I'd love to hear it!
It's an incredibly vintage ocremix. I'd say "it was posted closer to the release of chrono trigger than today" but it's no contest (5 years vs 21 years)
ocremix.org/remix/OCR00088
@@GSTChannelVEVO Awesome, thank you. You should totally release the full version that was recorded on your tape deck. I love the lo-fi vibe it gives off.
I would buy an official release of Spore’s soundtrack in a heartbeat..until then, I’m grateful for the Unofficial Galactic Soundtrack
Excellent video!
This is important
hehe...da doodoo...
What about the cases where the composer insists that the songs don't have names because they're supposed to only be heard in the context of the game? (I'd still love to know what titles Ruminant's Whimper would give to the music of Hellsinker...)
I honestly can't stand it when people make up "official sounding" names for songs. It seems pompous to take that upon yourself to do, and it typically just muddies things and makes it harder to find what you're looking for. Snesmusic is the only place that really does this though, thankfully enough. (Their Mega Man X2 rip kills me. It don't even match the other MM rips on the site!)
very interesting! i wonder if similar things happen nowadays...
You rule man
Anybody have vgm files of Jammit from the Genesis? I've found SNES versions, but it sounds so much better on the Genesis (imo)
There are still way too many unripped Genesis soundtracks. It's abit disappointing, but I can't say that I'm a great help either.
I also think it's perfectly fine to say "this is the water level/stage one/1-2 theme: bramble ambience". It can be both or either or neither.
IMO even if it sounds lame for a track to be named unused 1 or track 10 I think it's better for preservation purposes that giving it a made up name.
first
wow I'm so cool