Finally, someone who got it right. It amazes me as to how many pastors don't even start with looking at scripture, but instead go by what they've been told by others.
That's most pastors now, they are just ordinary "Christians" who regurgitate what their professor at their seminar tells them to regurgitate. Most of them haven't really studied their bible that much outside of bible college. That's why it's almost impossible to get your ordinary every day pastor to answer any questions. I once had a youth group pastor told me when I asked him his thoughts about giants in the bible he literally said "Well, a literal understanding of bible is considered by many to be the worst interpretation of the word." That blew my mind that a pastor would even say something like that.
This is a great explanation. Thank you brother. Your videos are extremely helpful to me as a young christian man in university. May Christ our LORD bless you and protect both you and your family.
As a Byzantine Catholic who grew up in a Dutch Calvinist tradition this video is very refreshing. A while back I had a discussion with a Calvinist friend on how his church apparently accept Second Nicaea, and displaying images. I told him that having images for display is not equivalent with veneration of icons. Second Nicaea literally anathematized anyone who refuse to bow and to kiss icons. This video is refreshing because it affirmed authentic Protestantism namely images distract people from the preaching of words of God. Because the main concern for Protestants is not about images as aid but rather when it's not just mere aid. In Orthodox and Catholic churches images are not just on display but rather the very windows of the persons depicted. St Athanasius wrote in Against Arius that when people offer incense to the icon of Emperor the honor translate to the person and not to mere wood and mere ink. Arius deny that the Logos is the Icon of God. Arius claimed any honor to Christ distract people from worshipping God alone. St Athanasius showed how Arius denial of consubstantiality between icon and its prototype is a denial of incarnation. In fact St Athanasius argument became the basis used at Second Nicaea that when we venerate icons we're not distracted but rather together with words of God we gaze on the person depicted and translate the honor. That's why Orthodox and Catholics offer incense and venerate icons as St Athanasius argued against Arius. Thank you for defending Protestantism clearly. It shows how we can be seriously disagree on dogmatics while be charitable in discussing our disagreement politely 🙏
Amen!! All of “The Chosen” fans need to hear this, thanks Pastor Joel! Not only does the show violate the 2nd commandment but the actor for “jesus” has wacky theology just like the show’s producer, Dallas Jenkins
I really love the show and am struggling with this. Fact of the matter is I started to really experience change in my life when I first came across some scenes on RUclips. The one where he heals the leper absolutely made my heart weep and gave me a completely different perspective and impression of Christ. Someone who both cries with you, laughs with you. Seeing that actually brought me closer. I wasn't a believer at all for 26 years and now I pray nearly daily, have asked Christ into my heart in order to be fully cleansed, changed and be convicted. I continually try to examine myself and ask questions in order to gain assurance if I'm on the right path towards salvation. It is difficult because I am easily impressed by images and I perceive images very easily. I do not want it to become some kind of idolatry. I probably need to ask for guidance and more understanding in prayer in order to avoid any wrongdoing.
Hi brother, I will be praying for you. I'd love to address a few points you made here. Please know that repenting of your sin and believing in Him and His finished work on the cross, that faith is what saves you. It is a regenerative faith that changes you completely as the Hoky Spirit works in you to sanctify you for the rest of your life as you grow to look more like our savior. By any chance, are you in the Glendale/Burbank area? If so, let me know. There are a few wonderful, biblically sound churches I would highly recommend you begin attending where the Bible is taught exegetically by sound teachers/preachers.
@@ArtbyAPI appreciate your desire to connect with the father and I think it's good that 'the chosen' moved you towards Yeshua. I also appreciate your honesty about being easily impressed. I believe we all are and that is why God made the second commandment against graven images. Ancient Israelites wouldn't even carve human figures into their pottery. It seems silly at first but when you think of what modern videos have become, and the impact pictures video has had on our society it starts to make sense. People worship celebrities and influencers these days. If people are filming themselves they are creating digital graven images.
I'm very stand offish with that show. 1. It doesn't follow the Bible. 2. The actor Johnathan is risking his soul by living in the glory of playing Jesus. I fear for him.
so would that mean. that any all physical depiction of Christ is sinful. art statues t.v shows jewelry so on so forth. can you have a physical depiction of Christ and not worship it? does that mean that any and all depictions of Christ in a physical form is sinful?
That's where I'm at too. If that's the correct definition, you literally can't view any television or use any internet. Even watching this video because it's just a series of moving images would be sinful. I've seen some beautiful artistic displays of Jesus. And Christians call Jesus God. So any depictions of Jesus if we have our understanding correct would be called a graven image. I think we're in trouble
Yes... That's how I understand scripture. That the. Includes posting on social media and WhatSApp etc. Photos of yourself.... It then also goes Into idolitory not
1 John 1:1-4 1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we looked upon and touched with our hands concerns the Word of life- 2 for the life was made visible; we have seen it and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made visible to us- 3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim now to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; for our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We are writing this so that our joy may be complete.
I would ask, What is a graven image. Is a picture of your parents or a statue of a famous person a graven image. Most would say no but it could be turned into a graven image by you if you start to bow down and worship it as if it is a God. Some years ago I was in an American Protestant Church when a Lady complained because they had a crucifix on the wall and not a cross. I asked her if she worshiped the cross. Then I pointed out that the cross and the crucifix should not be worshiped as they are just remainders that Christ died for us (Crucifix) and then rouse from the dead {Empty Cross) When we start to bow down and worship them we turn them into graven images.
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 15
At Bible study we are looking at Exo 19-20. One of the guys there is a big fan of "The Chosen", which is multi-season video series about the life of Christ. I've always felt uncomfortable about movies depicting Christ. The more I've thought about the 2nd commandment, the more convinced this is wrong. I've also noted that In the Baptist Catechism, for example, it states: Q. 57. What is forbidden in the second commandment? A. The second commandment forbids the worshipping of God by images, or any other way not appointed in His Word. The Westminster Larger Catechism puts it this way: “Q. 109. What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment? A. The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counselling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; tolerating a false religion; the making any representation of God, of all, or of any of the three Persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever; all worshiping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any representation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them; all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretence whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.”
Are you against all TV shows? Are you against all movies? If not, are you ok with them when they glorify criminals and deviants and liars? It's only the depiction of Jesus that you don't like?
So what counts as a graven image? A chess piece? A toy soldier? The statue at the Lincoln Memorial? A crucifix? A baseball card? A gravestone? The picture of the deceased at a memorial service? A penny? By a strict interpretation, the 2nd commandment seems to be a two-parter. Don't make any images, and don't worship them. So, isn't every government mint and every you soldier manufacturer guilty of making graven images, and thus sinning, even if they don't worship them?
They cannot answer this especially when they're Calvinist theonomy believers. Protestants never reject orthodoxy, they only replace what they claim to be against. Dare them to claim this about the pledge of allegiance
Yeah this video is totally clueless about the actual Scripture. You are approaching it honestly and reading what it actually says. I appreciate that. If you take it completely at face value, you cannot make an image of anything, which leaves you like the Muslims who traditionally only made geometric patterns. However, we see elsewhere in Exodus that God put His Spirit into craftsman to make artwork for the tabernacle, including cherubim (thing from heaven) and Moses even makes a metal sculpture of a serpent (thing on earth). So obviously, since these things happen in Exodus along with the commandments, God is not making an absolute hard and fast rule of no images ever. The context of the use of the images makes all the difference.
Exodus 20:4-5 (KJV) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Yup! They cursed bro.. Deuteronomy 27 15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 : 15
"And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works" Exodus 31:1-4
let's look into the bible. We see after the commandments God commanded the engraven image of a serpent that by looking upon it they were healed. So now not only be commanded to make an engraven image now the people are healed because of it. We have othe examples not going to mention them all, we have the cherubim and the ark, in the temple a place of worship...
Super late on this, but I have a few issues with those examples. God gave specific commandments on how the ark and the temple were suppose to look. This does not therefore mean, we can now transgress the 2nd commandment as a prescriptive, nor is it the same thing as what the 2nd commandment prohibits. The same can be said for the image of the serpent on the stick. We know that it was ultimately a depiction and foreshadowing of what Christ would do and that it was eventually destroyed by King Hezekiah because it had become an idol. We have to be careful not to look at descriptive things in Scripture and make them prescriptive. Similarly, the prescriptive things (like the 10 commandments) should be seen as such and not only descriptive. There's a difference between God's expressed will for morality and a one time instruction given to Moses, etc.
@@KentuckyMan30 " God gave specific commandments on how the ark and the temple were suppose to look." And why would God tell them to include cherubim, unless making images of things from heaven IS permitted, in right context? If you're gonna be that didactic when it comes to the commandment, what are you doing on RUclips? This is nothing but images of people, which aren't allowed by your ultraliteral forced exegesis.
@@theTavis01 In Deut. 4:12-16 I think we see the context of God's purpose around the 2nd commandment. If the 2nd commandment is about creating anything in general as a pathway to worship a "false god," it's pretty redundant of the 1st commandment. Rather, creating anything to "represent God" in a physical form on earth (with "good" intentions or not) is by definition a false depiction of God. If a human depiction of Jesus (which at the end of the day is nothing more than a false depiction of God) in any way brings me comfort or "brings a deeper connection" to God, this is exactly a violation of the 2nd commandment. The most extreme example is when the Israelites built the golden calf.
God is spiritual, yes, but He isn't incorporeal or evaporative. He has a substance. His substance is the divine substance. All of His attributes - love, mercy, graciousness, wrath, omniscience, omnipotent, immutability, etc. - comprised His divine substance, although each attribute is synonymous with the others. This is why God's ontology is unique.
My favorite part of this video is how he just totally skipped reading the actual commandment, and then just made up for himself what he wanted it to mean. Here it is, for those who care to know what the actual commandment is: "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God" Tell me, is a youtube video an "image" of "something on the earth?" Why yes, yes it is. Do some people worship youtube stars? Yes, yes they do. Trying to pretend like this commandment applies only to pictures of Jesus is wildly dishonest.
Graven images can be painted as well (Nu.33:52 and Is.2:16), as the Roman catholics have different 'pictures' of Jesus. Some people have a mental 'picture' of God in their minds. The 10th commandment connects to the first commandment, as 'covetousness, which is idolatry'. The wicked are those not having God 'in all their thoughts' (Ps.10:4). Inward sin is the issue, sins of the heart.
Im not saying this is incorrect, but make sure to always do your in-depth research, and always read the Bible in context and find out the time that the writers are writign in.
of all the TV shows to complain about, you're going to single out the one that is at least trying to teach people about Jesus? All the other TV shows are just peachy keen, huh?
The blind cannot see the idols of the nations high and lifted up on a flag pole, because of their unbelief. The idol worshippers of the US are worshipping the image of the star spangled of heaven, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem. The idol worshippers of Israel are worshipping the image of the star remphan of heaven, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem. The idol worshippers of Mexico are worshipping the image of the eagle of the earth, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem. The idol worshippers of Canada are worshipping the image of the maple leaf of the earth, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem. The idol worshippers of Japan are worshipping the image of the sun of heaven, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem. Idolatry is through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem. When the king of Babylon the great played the anthem at the sound of music the Babylonians bowed down to the ground and worshipped the image of the gold statue of the earth. When the US plays the anthem at the sound of music the US stand on their feet and worshipped the image of the star spangled of heaven with a song. God is against serving or pledging allegiance to OBJECTS, SYMBOLS, and IMAGES, in the likeness of anything in heaven above, or in the likeness of anything in the earth below [ Exodus 20:3-5 ] & [ Deuteronomy 4:15-19 ] God is going to destroy the idols of the nations high and lifted up on a flag pole, together with the idol worshippers of the flag.
Because he is not putting any supernatural power to it. Making a image or sculpture and saying this symbolize GOD or this remind me of GOD is idolatry. No images no idols! Only in truth and spirit worship!! The Bible is there to remind us! No idols No images!!
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 15
It always confused me in a way because the Orthodox have Icons but don't allow paintings of the Father ( because we couldn't know ) or statues. The Catholics have statues, fine art but not so much iconography ( except Mary for some reason) Then the Prods were Iconoclastic to begin with and we went about destroying ALL religious art. I personally always understood it to mean don't make images of the Father as that's an unpaintable subject and also don't make statues of Gods like Baal where you all dance round it, sacrificing each other and hanging out the back of anything with a heart beat. I think the Orthodox have probably got it the most correct. I hate seeing those stupid painting in the Vatican of the Father has an old man with a beard. It just feels like a Disney version of Christianity that has totally missed the point.
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 15
The orthodox defense/ theology of venerating icons is the exact same idea that pagans believed and early Christians argued against. The orthodox at Nicea 2 formally declared that if one refuses to bow and kiss icons with great affection they are anathema (which the council describes as “nothing less than complete and total separation from God” and accursed to hell)
because all over christain history images of the stories of the bible have been made? not to mention the countless times God commands statues to be made. the second commandment doesn't restrict statues at all just the worship of them. an idol is something that replaces God so an idol can be anything really not just statues@@mab1ism
I would say it's not a graven image considering it's not really an image of something that naturally exists in heaven or on the earth or in the sea, and I haven't seen anyone bow down to a medal to worship it at a kids sports event so I think your good.
All mortal forms are graven images because form is a lie entertained about the Omnipresent Spirit of God! Its why Jesus said, "Of mine own self, I am nothing. Of mine own self, I can do nothing. If I speak of myself, I bear witness to a lie." The worship of Jesus is the worship of a graven image! Jesus knew where all things mortal appear to be, only the Infinite, Omnipresent Spirit of God is Present! You must read the bible through a Spiritual Consciousness, not through the graven image called the Intellect that interprets it as religious and historical! I and My Father are One because the Infinite, Omnipresent Spirit of God is the Only Life!! He who seeks to keep his(mortal) life shall lose it.....!! The form of Jesus is nothing and can do nothing!! His own words!! He knew form is a Graven Image, and this is the World he Overcame that he is asking you to Overcome. Because he took his mortal form out the way, the Infinite Spirit of God that we all are was able to Demonstrate what takes place when no longer Entertaining the Belief in a Mortal Existence(graven image) Separate and Apart from God!! Only Spirit Exists, and Jesus knew this and then allowed the Omnipresent Spirit of God to do the Works!!
I started trying to learn about The Sea Peoples and the Bronze Age Collapse and now I am listening to spiritual affirmation. Thank you!
The Congregation has become an idol to many!
Finally, someone who got it right.
It amazes me as to how many pastors don't even start with looking at scripture, but instead go by what they've been told by others.
That's most pastors now, they are just ordinary "Christians" who regurgitate what their professor at their seminar tells them to regurgitate. Most of them haven't really studied their bible that much outside of bible college. That's why it's almost impossible to get your ordinary every day pastor to answer any questions. I once had a youth group pastor told me when I asked him his thoughts about giants in the bible he literally said "Well, a literal understanding of bible is considered by many to be the worst interpretation of the word." That blew my mind that a pastor would even say something like that.
Have you ever even read the commandment? The guy in the video is just making stuff up that has nothing to do with the actual Scripture
This is a great explanation. Thank you brother. Your videos are extremely helpful to me as a young christian man in university. May Christ our LORD bless you and protect both you and your family.
Thank you!
Yeshua Hamashiach is King of Kings and Lord of Lords amen.
As a Byzantine Catholic who grew up in a Dutch Calvinist tradition this video is very refreshing. A while back I had a discussion with a Calvinist friend on how his church apparently accept Second Nicaea, and displaying images. I told him that having images for display is not equivalent with veneration of icons. Second Nicaea literally anathematized anyone who refuse to bow and to kiss icons. This video is refreshing because it affirmed authentic Protestantism namely images distract people from the preaching of words of God. Because the main concern for Protestants is not about images as aid but rather when it's not just mere aid. In Orthodox and Catholic churches images are not just on display but rather the very windows of the persons depicted. St Athanasius wrote in Against Arius that when people offer incense to the icon of Emperor the honor translate to the person and not to mere wood and mere ink. Arius deny that the Logos is the Icon of God. Arius claimed any honor to Christ distract people from worshipping God alone. St Athanasius showed how Arius denial of consubstantiality between icon and its prototype is a denial of incarnation. In fact St Athanasius argument became the basis used at Second Nicaea that when we venerate icons we're not distracted but rather together with words of God we gaze on the person depicted and translate the honor. That's why Orthodox and Catholics offer incense and venerate icons as St Athanasius argued against Arius. Thank you for defending Protestantism clearly. It shows how we can be seriously disagree on dogmatics while be charitable in discussing our disagreement politely 🙏
Amen!! All of “The Chosen” fans need to hear this, thanks Pastor Joel! Not only does the show violate the 2nd commandment but the actor for “jesus” has wacky theology just like the show’s producer, Dallas Jenkins
I really love the show and am struggling with this. Fact of the matter is I started to really experience change in my life when I first came across some scenes on RUclips. The one where he heals the leper absolutely made my heart weep and gave me a completely different perspective and impression of Christ. Someone who both cries with you, laughs with you. Seeing that actually brought me closer. I wasn't a believer at all for 26 years and now I pray nearly daily, have asked Christ into my heart in order to be fully cleansed, changed and be convicted. I continually try to examine myself and ask questions in order to gain assurance if I'm on the right path towards salvation. It is difficult because I am easily impressed by images and I perceive images very easily. I do not want it to become some kind of idolatry. I probably need to ask for guidance and more understanding in prayer in order to avoid any wrongdoing.
Hi brother, I will be praying for you. I'd love to address a few points you made here. Please know that repenting of your sin and believing in Him and His finished work on the cross, that faith is what saves you. It is a regenerative faith that changes you completely as the Hoky Spirit works in you to sanctify you for the rest of your life as you grow to look more like our savior.
By any chance, are you in the Glendale/Burbank area? If so, let me know. There are a few wonderful, biblically sound churches I would highly recommend you begin attending where the Bible is taught exegetically by sound teachers/preachers.
@@ArtbyAPI appreciate your desire to connect with the father and I think it's good that 'the chosen' moved you towards Yeshua. I also appreciate your honesty about being easily impressed. I believe we all are and that is why God made the second commandment against graven images. Ancient Israelites wouldn't even carve human figures into their pottery. It seems silly at first but when you think of what modern videos have become, and the impact pictures video has had on our society it starts to make sense. People worship celebrities and influencers these days. If people are filming themselves they are creating digital graven images.
@@cnb2828 before you click on comment, check your spelling. Hoky Spirit?
I'm very stand offish with that show.
1. It doesn't follow the Bible.
2. The actor Johnathan is risking his soul by living in the glory of playing Jesus. I fear for him.
Exodus 20...God please help me from Heaven.
Very organized and to-the-point way of explaining that. Also love how you stick to explaining it with other scripture.
Hello , excuse my ignorance; what about wearing a necklace with a Cross? Or what about churches that have the Crucifixion? Thank you for sharing.
Amen
I was hoping for a lot more scripture.... but thank you for this message.
so would that mean. that any all physical depiction of Christ is sinful. art statues t.v shows jewelry so on so forth. can you have a physical depiction of Christ and not worship it? does that mean that any and all depictions of Christ in a physical form is sinful?
That's where I'm at too.
If that's the correct definition, you literally can't view any television or use any internet. Even watching this video because it's just a series of moving images would be sinful.
I've seen some beautiful artistic displays of Jesus. And Christians call Jesus God. So any depictions of Jesus if we have our understanding correct would be called a graven image. I think we're in trouble
Its because he is an iconoclast heretic. With protestants, all heresies are new again.
@@rafal2959 who is?
Yes... That's how I understand scripture. That the. Includes posting on social media and WhatSApp etc. Photos of yourself.... It then also goes Into idolitory not
Yay!
1 John 1:1-4
1 What was from the beginning,
what we have heard,
what we have seen with our eyes,
what we looked upon
and touched with our hands
concerns the Word of life-
2 for the life was made visible;
we have seen it and testify to it
and proclaim to you the eternal life
that was with the Father and was made visible to us-
3 what we have seen and heard
we proclaim now to you,
so that you too may have fellowship with us;
for our fellowship is with the Father
and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
4 We are writing this so that our joy may be complete.
I would ask, What is a graven image. Is a picture of your parents or a statue of a famous person a graven image. Most would say no but it could be turned into a graven image by you if you start to bow down and worship it as if it is a God. Some years ago I was in an American Protestant Church when a Lady complained because they had a crucifix on the wall and not a cross. I asked her if she worshiped the cross. Then I pointed out that the cross and the crucifix should not be worshiped as they are just remainders that Christ died for us (Crucifix) and then rouse from the dead {Empty Cross) When we start to bow down and worship them we turn them into graven images.
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 15
At Bible study we are looking at Exo 19-20. One of the guys there is a big fan of "The Chosen", which is multi-season video series about the life of Christ. I've always felt uncomfortable about movies depicting Christ. The more I've thought about the 2nd commandment, the more convinced this is wrong. I've also noted that In the Baptist Catechism, for example, it states:
Q. 57. What is forbidden in the second commandment?
A. The second commandment forbids the worshipping of God by images, or any other way not appointed in His Word.
The Westminster Larger Catechism puts it this way:
“Q. 109. What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counselling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; tolerating a false religion; the making any representation of God, of all, or of any of the three Persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever; all worshiping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any representation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them; all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretence whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.”
Are you against all TV shows? Are you against all movies? If not, are you ok with them when they glorify criminals and deviants and liars? It's only the depiction of Jesus that you don't like?
Yeshua Hamashiach is King of Kings and Lord of Lords amen.
So what counts as a graven image? A chess piece? A toy soldier? The statue at the Lincoln Memorial? A crucifix? A baseball card? A gravestone? The picture of the deceased at a memorial service? A penny?
By a strict interpretation, the 2nd commandment seems to be a two-parter. Don't make any images, and don't worship them.
So, isn't every government mint and every you soldier manufacturer guilty of making graven images, and thus sinning, even if they don't worship them?
This was my question too.
i bet these same people salute the americain flag. according to them its idol worship
They cannot answer this especially when they're Calvinist theonomy believers. Protestants never reject orthodoxy, they only replace what they claim to be against. Dare them to claim this about the pledge of allegiance
Yeah this video is totally clueless about the actual Scripture. You are approaching it honestly and reading what it actually says. I appreciate that. If you take it completely at face value, you cannot make an image of anything, which leaves you like the Muslims who traditionally only made geometric patterns. However, we see elsewhere in Exodus that God put His Spirit into craftsman to make artwork for the tabernacle, including cherubim (thing from heaven) and Moses even makes a metal sculpture of a serpent (thing on earth). So obviously, since these things happen in Exodus along with the commandments, God is not making an absolute hard and fast rule of no images ever. The context of the use of the images makes all the difference.
Exodus 20:4-5 (KJV) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Yup! They cursed bro.. Deuteronomy 27 15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 : 15
"And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works" Exodus 31:1-4
let's look into the bible. We see after the commandments God commanded the engraven image of a serpent that by looking upon it they were healed. So now not only be commanded to make an engraven image now the people are healed because of it. We have othe examples not going to mention them all, we have the cherubim and the ark, in the temple a place of worship...
Super late on this, but I have a few issues with those examples. God gave specific commandments on how the ark and the temple were suppose to look. This does not therefore mean, we can now transgress the 2nd commandment as a prescriptive, nor is it the same thing as what the 2nd commandment prohibits. The same can be said for the image of the serpent on the stick. We know that it was ultimately a depiction and foreshadowing of what Christ would do and that it was eventually destroyed by King Hezekiah because it had become an idol. We have to be careful not to look at descriptive things in Scripture and make them prescriptive. Similarly, the prescriptive things (like the 10 commandments) should be seen as such and not only descriptive. There's a difference between God's expressed will for morality and a one time instruction given to Moses, etc.
@@KentuckyMan30 " God gave specific commandments on how the ark and the temple were suppose to look." And why would God tell them to include cherubim, unless making images of things from heaven IS permitted, in right context? If you're gonna be that didactic when it comes to the commandment, what are you doing on RUclips? This is nothing but images of people, which aren't allowed by your ultraliteral forced exegesis.
@@theTavis01 In Deut. 4:12-16 I think we see the context of God's purpose around the 2nd commandment. If the 2nd commandment is about creating anything in general as a pathway to worship a "false god," it's pretty redundant of the 1st commandment. Rather, creating anything to "represent God" in a physical form on earth (with "good" intentions or not) is by definition a false depiction of God. If a human depiction of Jesus (which at the end of the day is nothing more than a false depiction of God) in any way brings me comfort or "brings a deeper connection" to God, this is exactly a violation of the 2nd commandment. The most extreme example is when the Israelites built the golden calf.
Who is God to know him personally with a name, please. I thought he BREATHED...THE SOUL INTO MAN AND MADE HIM A LIVING SOUL...
God is spiritual, yes, but He isn't incorporeal or evaporative. He has a substance. His substance is the divine substance. All of His attributes - love, mercy, graciousness, wrath, omniscience, omnipotent, immutability, etc. - comprised His divine substance, although each attribute is synonymous with the others. This is why God's ontology is unique.
What do you think about the incarnation then?
My favorite part of this video is how he just totally skipped reading the actual commandment, and then just made up for himself what he wanted it to mean. Here it is, for those who care to know what the actual commandment is: "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God"
Tell me, is a youtube video an "image" of "something on the earth?" Why yes, yes it is. Do some people worship youtube stars? Yes, yes they do. Trying to pretend like this commandment applies only to pictures of Jesus is wildly dishonest.
Graven images can be painted as well (Nu.33:52 and Is.2:16), as the Roman catholics have different 'pictures' of Jesus. Some people have a mental 'picture' of God in their minds. The 10th commandment connects to the first commandment, as 'covetousness, which is idolatry'. The wicked are those not having God 'in all their thoughts' (Ps.10:4). Inward sin is the issue, sins of the heart.
I think the title of this video needs to be renamed, as I don’t think he answered the question of what a graven image is. 🤦♀️
I feel like I'm in crazy land going through these comments, everyone is like "yay what a good explanation" thank you for finally being a sane one
Im not saying this is incorrect, but make sure to always do your in-depth research, and always read the Bible in context and find out the time that the writers are writign in.
Can statues weep like you believe???
Television has graven images.
Dallas Jenkins, are you watching this?
of all the TV shows to complain about, you're going to single out the one that is at least trying to teach people about Jesus? All the other TV shows are just peachy keen, huh?
Hi, uhm, this needs to be referring to the context, for this it means to create false images and worship them. But do your own research.
The blind cannot see the idols of the nations high and lifted up on a flag pole, because of their unbelief.
The idol worshippers of the US are worshipping the image of the star spangled of heaven, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem.
The idol worshippers of Israel are worshipping the image of the star remphan of heaven, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem.
The idol worshippers of Mexico are worshipping the image of the eagle of the earth, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem.
The idol worshippers of Canada are worshipping the image of the maple leaf of the earth, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem.
The idol worshippers of Japan are worshipping the image of the sun of heaven, through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem.
Idolatry is through the pledge of allegiance to the flag and anthem.
When the king of Babylon the great played the anthem at the sound of music the Babylonians bowed down to the ground and worshipped the image of the gold statue of the earth.
When the US plays the anthem at the sound of music the US stand on their feet and worshipped the image of the star spangled of heaven with a song.
God is against serving or pledging allegiance to OBJECTS, SYMBOLS, and IMAGES, in the likeness of anything in heaven above, or in the likeness of anything in the earth below [ Exodus 20:3-5 ] & [ Deuteronomy 4:15-19 ]
God is going to destroy the idols of the nations high and lifted up on a flag pole, together with the idol worshippers of the flag.
Not to mention the actual graven images on Mount Rushmore and other monuments.
Graven images are also posting of yourself on social media
Nope.
@@RightResponseMinistries
Why
Because he is not putting any supernatural power to it. Making a image or sculpture and saying this symbolize GOD or this remind me of GOD is idolatry. No images no idols! Only in truth and spirit worship!! The Bible is there to remind us! No idols No images!!
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 15
@@Carestre tell me you haven't read the commandment without telling me you haven't read the commandment.
Why is worship of Jesus as divine not.Idolatry?
God was and is Flesh.
Didn't the True God become visible! Didn't the Word become flesh .
It always confused me in a way because the Orthodox have Icons but don't allow paintings of the Father ( because we couldn't know ) or statues.
The Catholics have statues, fine art but not so much iconography ( except Mary for some reason)
Then the Prods were Iconoclastic to begin with and we went about destroying ALL religious art.
I personally always understood it to mean don't make images of the Father as that's an unpaintable subject and also don't make statues of Gods like Baal where you all dance round it, sacrificing each other and hanging out the back of anything with a heart beat.
I think the Orthodox have probably got it the most correct. I hate seeing those stupid painting in the Vatican of the Father has an old man with a beard. It just feels like a Disney version of Christianity that has totally missed the point.
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27 15
The orthodox defense/ theology of venerating icons is the exact same idea that pagans believed and early Christians argued against. The orthodox at Nicea 2 formally declared that if one refuses to bow and kiss icons with great affection they are anathema (which the council describes as “nothing less than complete and total separation from God” and accursed to hell)
This makes absolutely no sense at all. It isnt consistent with Scripture nor any Church teaching.
Total miss on the understanding of what a idol is.
How so?
because all over christain history images of the stories of the bible have been made? not to mention the countless times God commands statues to be made. the second commandment doesn't restrict statues at all just the worship of them. an idol is something that replaces God so an idol can be anything really not just statues@@mab1ism
@@mab1ism go read the second commandment from an actual Bible, it's completely different from whatever the guy in the video is ranting about
What about a kid's medal from a sport that has a person on it
I would say it's not a graven image considering it's not really an image of something that naturally exists in heaven or on the earth or in the sea, and I haven't seen anyone bow down to a medal to worship it at a kids sports event so I think your good.
All mortal forms are graven images because form is a lie entertained about the Omnipresent Spirit of God! Its why Jesus said, "Of mine own self, I am nothing. Of mine own self, I can do nothing. If I speak of myself, I bear witness to a lie." The worship of Jesus is the worship of a graven image!
Jesus knew where all things mortal appear to be, only the Infinite, Omnipresent Spirit of God is Present!
You must read the bible through a Spiritual Consciousness, not through the graven image called the Intellect that interprets it as religious and historical!
I and My Father are One because the Infinite, Omnipresent Spirit of God is the Only Life!!
He who seeks to keep his(mortal) life shall lose it.....!!
The form of Jesus is nothing and can do nothing!! His own words!! He knew form is a Graven Image, and this is the World he Overcame that he is asking you to Overcome. Because he took his mortal form out the way, the Infinite Spirit of God that we all are was able to Demonstrate what takes place when no longer Entertaining the Belief in a Mortal Existence(graven image) Separate and Apart from God!!
Only Spirit Exists, and Jesus knew this and then allowed the Omnipresent Spirit of God to do the Works!!