About 20 years ago I spend an afternoon talking with an Amish woman in Lancaster PA. We were the same age (early 30s) and we were discussing how different our lives were from each other. I was a single lesbian living in Philadelphia, while she was married and had two sons. She was not judgmental at all about my gayness. I think we just found each others lives, and our differences, fascinating. We were very open with each other, and it was a lovely conversation.
@@jintanesss1417 You ask Jesus about any question You have. I've had many problems and situations like You have and if I have something on my mind that I'm not sure about I ask Him. I also go and look up a chapter in my Bible.
@@itravisonithe bible was not written by Jesus... it was written by men.... Paul never even met Jesus in life. Anyone could have Jesus appear in a dream....most ideas of what defines sin comes from people wanting to control other people.
My grandparents were old order Amish. I was raised in the Mennonite church. I am a gay man with my same sex partner who I am with 28 years now. My family has not had contact with me in years. My grandfather treated me as invisible and dead for years before his death. He was a pretty hateful man as I see it. I have stopped trying to get anyone to accept or love me from my previous community. I am who I am and they are who they are. I just accept it as it is. It has been sad and lonely to not have any family ties. However; I am a free man and I have a wonderful life. The “world” is a better place then they would ever acknowledge or ever know. “Religion poisons just about everything,” as the late Christopher Hitchens once said. Thank you Erik for your telling of our story.
I'm sorry you had to experience that. Religious people can be a pain. They forget about the teachings of Christ. Love, forgiveness and not be judgemental
@@leilanigreenwood5064 that is kind of you to say. Thank you! Christian’s also forget that the Christ figure is the one who first introduces the idea of hell and humans being burned in a lake of fire forever if you do not “love” him. I am a little more kind and benevolent to people than the Jesus of the Bible. I would never hurt or threaten anyone if they simply did not love me. Heck, I have had that happen many times in my life and I have still been kind to these who do not find me their cup of tea. It is funny how Jesus seems so much more “mean” than most people I meet on the street. What do people see in the Jesus figure as good and kind, when in fact, according to his own words, he is unfair, narcissistic and vengeful? To make such a proposition to anyone, ( love me or burn) is an immoral position to take. I am not so sure I see all the goodness and kindness that others see in their Jesus figure.
@@dyinteriors Sometimes I wonder about the teachings myself. I have been knocked by some many Christians before I refuse to denounce, condemn homosexuals.
You have to be kidding. As a gay Black Christian, The entire video was a big haphazardness of clustered homophobic judgment, down to "cases of people openly gay leaving Amish/Mennonite identity are rare". Basically implying that there is no escape. Wow smh.
@@silent1967 You can. If you want to go there, the only thing is gay marriage and gay sexual relationships are sinful. But it's not un Christian, to identify as gay and be celibate. I also don't believe gay is a sin.
@@silent1967 YOU and ONES like you are what is known as 'a hard cases.' God's Nature was not made by Him to be mocked, which you and your mystical books and beliefs morphing to faith in the existence of the INVISIBLE and tangibly UNKNOWABLE certainly do! Eventually in one way (or ways) or others, you will suffer for it. She will kick your ass if challenging Her past some point by yourself unknowable. (Only She so-does.) I've no advice for you or your compeers in mystery and the unknown except KEEP YOUR DISTANCE oh-young-one! Rejoinder???
You know what? You made a righteous and thoughtful explanation of this "unique" social/religious construct. Can't imagine the pressures an Amish person might be facing with this kind of dilemma.
@@CarterKey6 "it's not that hard to deny who you truly are!" you're sick. go find an actual issue to worry about because queer people are perfectly fine.
@@Kaniela-xq8vl "Are you sure you want to marry that woman, Mohammad? She's 5'10, has a lady's mustache and a very deep voice." - "Dont worry Dad, I'll manage..."
@@CarterKey6 what a load of old bunk. You have no idea, but to have a clue, abstain all sexual expression in all it's forms. Ie, no relationship, no holding hands, no close expression in any way to another person. Starve yourself, but express all to a woman instead snd only then, you may gain an insight.
@@HisCoconutGun it’s called context. The question specifically asked about being Amish and gay. Amish people follow a strict religious principle that has no tolerance for homosexuality. Your sexuality isn’t a choice. Your religion is.
@@garlictyme2472 Agreed. Since homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, there has been no secular basis for opposing it. People can have personal prejudices that aren't directly influenced by religious belief but that is the real origin of their prejudice.
Thanks for this insight. As a gay person myself, I feel lucky to be able to come out without having to give up much despite coming from a fairly conservative culture (relative to American culture anyway). I can't imagine the dilemma an LGBTQ Amish individual must face. It would be hard to choose between how you truly feel and your entire community, not to mention your own religious beliefs. I don't judge any person that decides to stay in the closet. But I do hope they find inner peace.
John 3:7 King James Version 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Romans 3:23 King James Version 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Job 12:7-9 King James Version 7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: 8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. 9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this? Romans 10:9-10 King James Version 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. JOHN 3:18 KJ21 “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
@@Jesus_paid_it_all who knew that 2023 years after his death, jesus would have payed christ-bots to spam the comments of youtube comment sections. stop shoving your bigoted religion down everyone's throats. thanks!
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the way you handled this loaded topic. Informative, clear, and not just telling either side what they want. A real rarity on the internet. Thanks for what you do!
can u define what is a woman? bec u certainly dont understand what fair & balance is, his perspective is on the side of gay people w/o input from Amish people he only says gay people hv to navigate the Amish community & has never mentioned the difficulties the Amish community has w/entitled gay people who force their promiscuous lifestyle on the Amish community
@@grahepo who pushes their sexuality on others? Most commercials have straight couples and only ones trying to push others to be like them are religious folk. Or straight privileged conservative folk. We just want to exist and the same rights as you. That's it. You dont want us to have that.thats fine, has nothing to do with anything 9ther than it's different and not you.
Great videography. Grew up Southern Baptist with 6 brothers. Born 1940, so u take from there and try to imagine the atrocities I witnessed. I have subscribed and thank u. Ever want to hear about growing up from 1940 on , say hello. Dave here
There is this book called Farm Boy, it's not about exactly the same subject as this videos: and I don't know if there is even any Amish account; but I can say there are plenty of people in that book that had similar stories and discussed most of the topics you described here. In many cases you just sublimate, but certainly there are guys that don't care about their "spouses" because they tend to find women that are either understanding or lesbians/bisexuals that don't harass them about their sexuality.
Great information Erik, you always present things factually without interjecting your own personal feelings or opinions and I like that. I'd say homosexuality is a hot topic for many whether you are Amish or non-Amish, right or wrong I'd say it's a personal thing, and you have to choose how you will handle the opinions of others. Thank you for sharing on a topic that makes so many people angry and or nervous.
I continue to find it sad and disturbing that religion nearly always makes life for people of the lgbt+ community difficult and unhappy. Why is it that "christians" are so often intolerant, narrow minded and judgemental when Christ in fact, preached the exact opposite. It seems to me that an awful lot of people who claim to be christian, never actually moved out of the old testament into the new testament. There is a world of difference between claiming to be christian and actually being one. Saying you are christian is easy, being one requires a change of heart. It would not surprise me if most christians are fans, but not actual followers of Christ.
If it were a personal thing, we wouldn't have to vote on whether gay people can get married, or whether people have control over their own bodies, especially adults who should be free to seek what care they need or want. But I do think it's nice to see this video, since the creator of the video is not supporting discrimination towards either community, he is just outlining a culture's normal and expectations. I appreciate this breakdown, the deeper issues of religious belief ruling over the deeper messages of "love thy neighbor" and being Jesus- like are topics people need to discuss and consider separation of church and state in the USA
Excellent job of portraying the Amish views of homosexuality without being judgemental. This is a breath of fresh air and much needed in today's combative society. Thank you.
That’s because the Amish don’t tend to be combative about their views. If you don’t bring that energy into universe, it doesn’t often come back your way. That’s a lesson the evangelical right can learn from the Amish. Leave folks alone and they’ll leave you alone.
@@jasonthewatchmansson8873 There are truly far worse homophobes in America who are far more combative, confrontational, connected to political power, and resort to violence. As a gay person, I’m truly not worried about the Amish.
calling it a sin is judgmental, the Amish don't believe in modern tech just tech from the time of the founding, stupid religion is stupid and muddles morality and thinking, you can't even perceive that it is judgmental, a testament to the blindness religion creates in a person. It is nonsense, wake up. The bible has thousands of errors and contradictions and you cannot even see them, again a testament to the blindness such systems create. Nature testifies against you.
I had a very similar dilemma years ago. I chose to be myself over my religion. Yes, I had to pruned away toxic friends and relatives, but in the end, life is a lot healthier and happier!
I’m gay and thought you did a tremendous job, I can completely understand why they would choose to marry. It saddens me greatly. But that is what most did just 75 years ago.
I celebrate you for knowing yourself. I was asked several decades ago, by a very dear friend who is gay, how would I feel if my son told me he was homosexual? I told him that my feelings for him would never change. I love my son. But i would feel sad for the challenge he would have with those who didn't approve. Our society is more open and I hope more understanding/accepting than it was in the 1980's. But in my opinion, we still have a long way to go in respecting and appreciating each other's differences. To me, a person is a unique and vital part of the whole. The more diverse the pieces, the more beautiful the quilt.
@@silent1967 That is your opinion. Not a fact. This is an inconsiderate and cruel response. Jesus taught Christians that God, not people, makes all the Judgements. And Jesus came to save us from them. Careful, or by your words here, you might be stepping into sin yourself...
@@silent1967 I do not believe He would, because He does know me. I'm imperfect, but I'm faithful. He loves me. You can't shake my faith with your beliefs.
An interesting topic. I had to deal with a similar dilemma as that young Amish guy. I chose to be myself. In retrospect, I am happy that I made that choice. There is just one God-given life that each of us has, and when that time comes, when there is no more running, when one is right then and there with oneself, the last thing I would want to reflect on is "what if". What if I had more courage? What if I lived the life the way I wanted to live? What could have been? Those questions would be hard to swallow.
So you're gay then and rejected the miserable life other would make you have. Regardless of what you do, they go to bed at night and don't give you another thought. That is the reality.
I'm not Amish and I daily wonder what my life would have been like had I not yielded to my family's pressure and manipulation and live my life as had been best for me and what I wanted and needed from life rather than what was best for them. I could have had a life and happiness. I didn't. I feel your pain more than words can express. Wishing you happiness and the man of your dreams for the rest of your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@josephr.gainey2079 Where are you in life sir? I know it sounds like life has passed, but could you still do it? A common friend at least? Something for the tough life you had?
@@josephr.gainey2079 you're not dead yet, and you were born to be uniquely yourself and nobody else. Do you want to go to the grave never having been the person you were meant to be? You get one chance. Don't think it's too late. It's never too late. It's work, it's disruptive, but all it takes is you wanting it badly enough, and it'll fall into place. Think about it
When I was in DC I had a wonderful and interesting former Amish boy for a housemate in a house of 3. He had many stories such as the only phone on the farm was in the cow barn to be used only for the health of the cows. As a gay man he left. Ernie was very interesting and I wish I had kept in touch.
This is not something I thought about for the Amish. This video is very thought provoking and interesting that they struggle with. Hard choices to make. TFS 🙏👍
Not related to this subject and there doesn't seem to be a video that covers this subject. Are their many disabled Amish in the community and what if any support is given to them. Been disabled myself I am interested how this would fit into the Amish lifestyle?
If I had kids, I would not mind them having same sex relationships as long as they weren't hardcore degenerate freaks that feel the need to shove their sexuality down everyone's throat. I would disown in that case.
Not only the Pope, but many many clergy are speaking up after seeing the discoveries of the biblical scholars proving that the scripture on homosexuality has been misinterpreted. Declaring scripture dealing with homosexuality teaching needs to change. Here is a Cardinal. “Homosexuality is not a sin. It corresponds to a Christian attitude when two people, regardless of gender, stand up for each other, in joy and sorrow,” he said. The value of love was also shown in “not making the other person an object, not using him or her or humiliating him or her.” Cardinal Marx added: “LGBTQ+ people are part of creation and loved by God, and we are called upon to stand against discrimination.” He also said, “Those who threaten homosexuals and anyone else with hell have understood
@@joey9562 The Pope isn't Orthodox. Neither is Cardinal Marx. And there are many, if not most, Catholics who would say that the Pope and Cardinal Marx aren't exactly Catholic. We don't have to do or believe everything the Pope and hierarchy do. We especially do not have to do or believe anything that the Pope and hierarchy do that are contrary to the teaching of God. In the end times, the Pope will be acting at the behest of the Antichrist, even as the Church remains the true Church established by Jesus Christ. We have to be careful not to worship the Pope or take his words as Gospel commandments.
@@joey9562 The pope still considers homosexual relations a sin though and that will never change within the Catholic Church because you can’t change the sacrament of marriage, meaning gays can never marry, meaning they will always be sinning when they have sex.
You did an excellent video explaining this and touching on this sensitive subject! As always your videos are fascinating! The photography you show is excellent and beautiful! I was visiting Lancaster (Bird in Hand, Intercourse, Strasburg) today and thought of you. 😉
What a pleasure to see something discussed so rationally and in such a straightforward manner. This approach to other such topics would do a lot to demonstrate the incredible power of balanced reporting by journalists. Great job!
My now husband for 12 years, was born among the Amish community, and he lived in the community for over 18 years of his life. Since he is really not very stereotypically gay, in fact he Its very "straight looking" because he was raised that way (you know, men have to do manly stuff), no one suspected it, thus his parents soon arranged a wedding with a girl from her community. He had so much anxiety and panic about it that he simply left the community overnight. He found work as a carpenter quite easy (he's really good handy man). It was extremely tough. He said there are others in the community and that "gay sexual relations" do happen in secrecy but its rare. Its extremely taboo. Many end up marrying but he couldnt live a lie to himself, so he decided better to leave with the english. He didnt drink but says he felt compelled to it because of his lonelyness. All friends and family were in the community and thought about going back and ask to be allowed to stay single. He is the fourth of twelve siblings and a couple (a sister and a cousin) left the community and thats the only family he has contact with (quite frequently actually). Then, fast forward a couple years later I was on a travel over the US and met him casually because he was the friend of a friend I had met at English school and was gay like me, it was instant connection. He later was curious to visit me over in Europe, specially germany and switzerland since he could "somehow" get the language. I moved to the US to be with him for over 1 year (on student visa) and when it was over he came to visit me in Switzerland and stayed for some studies as well. Four years later we married and he finally moved to live here permanently, where we got a lovely farm (he wanted one and I like farm live as well). So now he gets to live almost as he did back in the states ironically.
Well approached and explained. I never thought about this occurring within the Amish community - just not a thought in the course of my general thinking - but you were very eloquent and tactful in addressing the subject. We are all human and we all suffer human nature's challenges. The choices we make while facing them is what it comes down to. You left me with this thought and it makes me feel more empathetic toward others who may be facing a personal dilemma. Thank you.
I know of 3 gay Amish. Mervin is married with 3 kids. Isaiah is 19 and struggling if he wants to leave the faith. And Luke left the community 2 years ago and has a husband.
I've been asking Eli Yoder about this for a while now but could never get an answer. Thank you for tackling this issue. It sounds like even tho they consider it a sin unlike English society they don't weigh it more heavily than any other sin.
Good video. You bring-up an interesting point. Given the dominance of electronic media in English society, how do the Amish stay informed without Internet or TV? Newspapers? Crystal-set AM radio? I presume the schools are also without electronic aids to instruction?
Generally more old-fashioned ways - newspapers, hearing news from non-Amish friends, discussion in the community, and some will also hear AM radio when traveling with a driver longer distances to work, trips, etc.
Several years ago, moving across the country, my friends and I traversed across Pennsylvania. I'd only seen Amish folk and their buggies and all in films and t.v., like most people. My friends and I were joking, but respectfully, that you wouldn't see any buggies with flames painted on the sides or gold rims. I felt a little sad stating the obvious, "and you won't see any rainbows on them either."
I have a couple video suggestions for you if you read this. First- I think it would be interesting to see how the Amish pay for things. I see them always shopping at Walmarts and Home Depot! I was wondering if they use a bank card, and how would they manage a bank account without a phone or computer? Second- do the Amish suffer from diseases like diabetes, Parkinson’s, psoriasis etc? It would be interesting to know due to the way they eat compared to the English ways of eating. Thanks!
Anna Volkov, having lived in a Amish community I can answer that question. The Amish do not use credit or debit cards. Nor do Amish stores accept them as a means of payment. Amish use cash and checks only. They manage their bank accounts the old fashioned way, with paper statements that come in the mail. The Amish do get those diseases but in a lesser degree. The hard physical work they do has a positive effect on their bodies and mitigates some of the potential harm less healthy food might bring. The Amish have accepted many "modern" things such as "convenience" foods, so cooking from scratch doesn't always happen. It is not unusual these days to find Amish cookbooks that use convenience foods, such as a can of soup, in the recipes. One Amish store I shopped at did have some boxed dinners, bags of cookies, and such. But the majority of items were "ingredient" type foods.
@@JacquesMareJohn 3:7 King James Version 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Romans 3:23 King James Version 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Job 12:7-9 King James Version 7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: 8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. 9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this? Romans 10:9-10 King James Version 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. JOHN 3:18 KJ21 “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Billions of prayers to not be gay anymore. Some were mine. Those prayers were not answered. That destroyed what little faith I had, which was entirely gone by age 15.
I have many resources that would help with your knowledge & acceptance; contact me will be glad to share as i have also given copies of all to my PTSD counseling-therapist. Can give you my email or cell number also to chat.
Return to Jesus. In this life we all have "unanswered prayers". But God gave is the best gift of all: eternal life. John 3:7 King James Version 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Romans 3:23 King James Version 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Job 12:7-9 King James Version 7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: 8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. 9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this? Romans 10:9-10 King James Version 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. JOHN 3:18 KJ21 “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I am now a gay atheist and I could not be more elated to be done with this superstitious nonsense that almost took my life. Religion poisons just about everything. I am free at last.
I'm gay, believe in God. What I don't understand is why other Christians are so judgmental towards other people? Not just gay people in particular, but anyone that's not exactly like themselves. I've been to churches where the members would squawk and snark at someone wearing jeans on a Sunday morning. I truly do not understand why Christians go so hardcore in judging others when it's clear what the Bible states about judging others. Any who, I believe in one judge and that is God.
I suspect that the transgression of homosexuality can’t really be classified as being simply another form of sexual transgression in that LGBT people are often stigmatized simply for exhibiting traits that are considered to indicate a homosexual inclination. The idea that the person is loved but the sin is rejected is an idea often repeated by socially conservative Christians, however it is rarely if ever the case. Rather, people with acknowledged or even suspected homosexual feelings are often marginalized by their communities. This is particularly painful for young people who are suspected of being gay by their communities before these young people even recognize their own feelings. One grows up feeling less-than prior to having done anything which should cause them to be rejected.
Interesting that same sex activity is so condemned and sinful, being that sex is “ solely for the purposes of procreation “, is it not hypocritical that incest and sexual abuse is so rampant among the Amish, yet kept quiet, swept under the rug, and virtually unpunished? That type of behavior is not meant for the sole purpose of procreation, but, sadly it happens more often that anyone probably knows. Rather, if a perpetrator is caught, usually confessing in front of the congregation absolves him, and he’s free to offend again. More often than not, it is the female who risks punishment or shunning if they come forward, and are yet again placed back into the same situation. And thus the cycle is perpetuated….grandfather to son to grandson, uncle to nephew to cousin, etc. The Amish claim to denounce the ways and beliefs of man, and feel that man-made rules and laws don’t apply to them, yet their rules, or “Ordnum”, are their own, man-made interpretations of God’s word( supposedly). They are not what they seem, and to me, are more of a cult than a sect. Denouncing homosexuality should almost be a non-iss7e, in comparison to the other, rampant sexual sins known and tolerated in and among their communities.
That's a sad point. When sex is seen purely as functional, it ignores sex as bonding intimacy between a couple. And that actually devalues sex to the point where it would make meaningless sex through incest or abuse more likely.
Is masturbation also considered a sin since it is for pleasure and not procreation? The female mammary glands are made by god solely for the nourishment of newborns. Is seeing and using them for sexual pleasure considered a sin?
As we see here, many choose to stay in the closet and marry. They may claim to be happy in marriage, but I have to wonder how fulfilling the relationship ends up being for both individuals in the marriage. I'm glad that when I was in the closet and hoping to change by dating women, and considering marriage, I finally came to the realization that marriage would be a disaster, that at a point I'd eventually come out, and realized the damage and unhappiness it would potentially cause a wife and any children. At that point, I stopped trying to change my sexuality and worked on accepting myself as I am.
That's so nice to hear. I'm a young gay and from a liberal country and culture, so having to be closeted was a non-issue. I'm sorry for the older generations who were not afforded that luxury and we have to realise this was not long ago and much change still needs to happen...
@@silent1967 So is murder, lying, thief, fornication all will see the 🔥 of hell, these all are an abomination in the eyes of God. So it says in Revelations.
I can't imagine the amount of silent suffering of many young gay Amish youth. I always wondered about this and I grew up in rural PA my whole life as a gay man.
Definitely was refreshing to watch and learn. Was truly educated on a long time question I had been curious about for awhile now. Your approach was so fresh and soothing thank you
Interesting because Homosexuality is as old as Human History. It's always been with us. Some Humans are born that way, just as it occurs naturally in the Animal Kingdom as well.
Sadly to these types of people, it's all a 'test' from God. A cruel and pointless test I argue, but a test to them all the same if you can resist the temptation he apparently let you be born with. Reminded of that line from Christopher Hitchen's: Created sick and then order to be made well....
Very nicely written script. I am not even western or christian. I only clicked because the title didn't seem like clickbait which is something I stopped going for; now I just block such folks.
To me, this shows that being gay is a natural acurrance. Even in isolation, away from influence, not even ever hearing about gay people, one can still be gay. It's part of nature
A gay boy has a decision to stay at home or make smart plans to leave his Amish heritage . I realize it's not that simple . It's a painful situation . No one knows the pain a young man's pain of being gay and in most cases he keeps it secret because he's ashamed . Life is not easy for anyone, but for being GAY in 'secret' is awful . IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT WAY . We're all only human beings .
✳️ Fun fact - living in PA, gay/bi Amish men seem to enjoy visiting cruising areas here in PA (even if they don't participate they like to watch) #datswatsup
My grandmother was ex-Swartzentruber (one of the most conservative Amish), and I was raised Beachy Amish in Holmes county (for anyone unfamiliar, Beachy Amish are car driving Mennonites, we don't do Rumspringa, etc.) and PennDutch was my first tongue, but English later became my dominant. I am transgender. I've known this since I was 4, but didn't have the language for it until I was 12. I am 25 now and transitioning. I grew up incredibly suicidal and depressed from a young age, I expressed suicidal ideation from as early as 7, and made an attempt at my own life in my teens. But when I finally was able to pursue transition, for the first time in my life, I learned that I love being alive. I love living. I love everything I am becoming. I, for the first time, love myself. Hormonal replacement therapy has made me feel like less of a stranger to myself, and feel emotions again that i had never felt for most of my life-genuine joy, grief, empathy, everything, rather than just apathy and hopelessness. A lot of my family rejected me for it, but some didn't. And those who didn't reject me, while not fully on board (but understanding that this is the direction I am taking my life and no longer trying to actively stop it), I love and appreciate with my whole heart. I don't mind if they might still misgender me, because I'm not doing this for their or anyone else's validation; I'm doing this for me, to feel at home in my own body. Any language people might use for me, I don't care. They love me more than they could ever hate what I am, because love endures, and love prevails. I'm no longer Beachy Amish-Mennonite, I found a home and community in converting to Reform Judaism. But the fact that my dad, who was raised by an Amish woman, chose to love me and eventually respect my decision instead casting me away like others have means more to me than anything else I've ever known. Sometimes they might alter their beliefs and reevaluate how they personally interpret the bible to choose love and acceptance, to love thy neighbor, and to not cast stones.
@@J52d-g well it's already been 21 years of a solid consistency on my identity, and only improving since i started socially transitioning 13 years ago. so i can confidently say it's been working out for me!
I do respect the Amish community. Trying to be the good person that you are. I get it. They do have some pretty cool beards, which I like. I wish there was not a stigma for Amish guys to just be gay. Be who you are. It's not nurture, it's nature. It's taken me about 40 years to kinda figure this out!
I think you did a good job remaining sensitive to both the Amish beliefs, which is their guidance for their daily life with an alternative sexual attraction, that is such a big part of a person's identity. My heart goes out to gays and their loved ones in the Amish community. There is no easy answer.
Is there a problem with different pronunciation of Amish, like Amy or Allan cuz I hear people saying EY-MISH.Is it acceptable or just wrong ? Thank you.
@@DanielJennessII Keeping that kind of secret in such a small community would be very difficult on a long term basis. In a group so firmly family focused, not getting married and living with your "friend" is going to raise questions.
@@DanielJennessII You’re clueless. With such lack of empathy, I doubt you’ll ever find a spouse. If you do, I expect you to tell everyone you’re just friends.
@@DanielJennessII you do realize being gay is more than just "who you sleep with." I don't understand why that's the immediate first thing that comes to mind when you think of gay people.
@@DanielJennessII sexual orientation, including heterosexuality cannot be boiled down to " who you're having sex with". If that's the way you think, I feel sorry for your husband. if in fact you're able to have a relationship that goes beyond sex
To be disciplined for your feelings is critical. If they are worried about going to hell, to hide who you are for all of your life, that is hell in a nut shell itself! I do understand their standpoint on not wanting to lose their community, etc, but sometimes, most times, an individual needs to way the good versus the bad. Lying is a sin and just because you live a life as a straight male or female but crave the same sex, you’re lying. That’s a sin in its self.
But, how many of us would have the strength--especially given the almost total isolation from the outside world many of these groups have. Saying "the Amish" is in reality like saying "the Baptists" or "the Jews" or "the Muslims" in that it implies that the named group is one monolithic group all of whom think alike and act alike. The truth is much more complex than that. Even the Old Order Amish (and that's what most people think of when they hear the word "Amish") are different in practice, if not belief, especially when it comes to the use of technology and interaction with the outside world. The last edition of Amish Society by John A. Hostetter (1993) contains a section on the subdivisions within an Amish settlement in western Pennsylvania (ranked 9th in size among the 60+ settlement areas in the United States). He found over 15 groups, most of which disagreed with each other enough to form separate congregations. Most were not in communion with each other. This settlement numbered only about 4,000 people and didn't include more liberal groups that used automobiles, and who were just as splintered as their traditionalist cousins. Think how divided the larger communities, which can number up to 45,000 people must be!!!! And think how intense the pressure to conform to the ways of your group which usually includes not only your immediate family but their closest kit and kin!!!!!!!!!!
@@josephr.gainey2079 Amish, Muslim, etc ALL face isolation when coming out. But there is a whole community for those that come out and they are accepted, it’s just up to those that are willing to take the first step. Almost ALL religions teach against lying. The person has to chose their own damnation and not all Amish are oblivious more so the Amish have a chance to leave at 16 ( I may be wrong about this age) and experience life outside. They can either A stay away or B go back. There are some Amish that have access to the internet, everyday people outside of the Amish community, etc. Many gay individuals lose family, friends, etc. it’s not just the Amish. They have find/have faith in their selves as do many others regardless of teachings. They are not dumb, they know there’s a whole other world out there.
@@cac2821 If someone is certain of eternity, this life is a very short blip, and the eternal reward for overcoming temporal struggles is well worth the temporary pain. On the other hand, if someone is certain that this life is eternity, and that battling desires of the flesh is the only hell there is, then all kinds of rationales are employed to justify giving in to every craving of the flesh. For example, if I want a donut, but I've already had my fill of daily calories in the form of healthy foods, you might call me a liar for denying myself the fleshly pleasure of the donut. After all, I want the donut, and to deny myself the experience of the donut is to deny the desire I feel. If lying is a sin as you've stated, then according to your moral code, I should eat the donut in order to be honest and truthful. Naturally there are consequences to eating the donut, such as struggles against denying myself pleasures in the future because that rationale will always be there, and struggles with the resulting weight gain that eventually turn me obese, struggles with the metabolic functions and regulatory processes that eventually destroy my pancreas and circulatory system, my heart and even my lungs. But if lying is a greater sin than gluttony, as you've half-stated, then those negative consequences are preferable to committing the sin of lying. That's the logical formula of your argument. It's a good thing we don't get to make choices for others 😊
John 3:7 King James Version 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. Romans 3:23 King James Version 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Job 12:7-9 King James Version 7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: 8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. 9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this? Romans 10:9-10 King James Version 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. JOHN 3:18 KJ21 “He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Considering the fact that incest in Amish communities is a prevalent problem which is largely ignored, I find it hypocritical that they chastise gay people for living their authentic lives with the sexual orientation with which they were born. Religion is a choice, being homosexual is not.
In fact there are genetic diseases that are MORE common in Amish communities because the blood lines are so close. I would guess unless they go out of the particular community odds are fairly high. There are genetic diseases almost exclusive to Amish communities. Google and you will get pages and pages of medical references--not popular articles. To them being homosexual is a choice. But all the research they don't read says otherwise. Also homosexual is really more than sex, it is who you want to hang with and do things with. Even young kids have a preference re boys vs girls, etc. that's why someone can be gay at 10. There are also people who have left the Amish with huge difficulty--one of the problems is when you do this often times the rest of the group shuns you so you can't keep your family ties. I know something about cults, having left one, though in my case the group doesn't practice shunning. Some families will accept a family member secretly, afaik.
This was the POV of the entire country when I was small. There has always been an acceptance of lesbians in most of the Western Christian countries, because as Queen Victoria commented, she didn't think female "friendships" were a threat because it was more a matter of better two virgin girls be intimate (not too intimate, mind you, kissing and hugging mostly) but for a man to do that just seemed horrible
After watching this I can finally understand opinions of other society, fifferent countries and nationalities and races . Beliefs are different . It is not the fault of the person (per say) it's the way they were raised . And what they have heard from other family members and friends. This all takes time. Time . Time. Time .
I can’t imagine having to make such a choice between my own Truth and the support of my family and community. As a gay man with rather a liberal (if somewhat spotty) religious upbringing (I identify as a Unitarian Universalist) my ties to the church and its influence on my family were not overly intrusive or so deeply rooted as the Amish. While coming out and living my Truth wasn’t particularly easy, I did have access to information, media, and other people of whom I could avail myself if I had questions. I’m sure for an Amish LGBTQ+ person it must be rather confusing, especially without the resources and the fact that the Amish don’t discuss it. I wish nothing but the best for my LGBTQ+ brothers and sisters in the Amish community and that they may weather their difficult path with both grace and dignity. Thanks for such a neutral presentation of the subject matter.
My bf actually j left the amish and I assume that's why I got this in my recommended lol. I really like the way you covered this and I find it very accurate. My bf left because he got kicked out by his parents. His parents are keeping it VERY downlow to the point his brothers don't even know why he left, nor do i think they told their local church. They just think it was a personal decision entirely up to him(, which really isn't accurate). His mother is pretty much shunning him. his father and other siblings are trying to keep some distance, but give him a lot of love when they see him. He's 20 now, but told me he did not know the terms gay, bi, etc. until he was about 17-18 & his parents sent him to some form of straight conversion therapy/"counciling". It's been really hard for him, with a lot of doubt and struggles. He's becoming far happier and more comfortable now luckily (its been abt 3 months). A lot of what you said is very much cooperated by what I've seen and I appreciate u spreading information about this really underdocumented topic.
Thanks for covering this subject.Having finally coming to terms with being gay in the early 90s I can well understand the situation people find themselves in. If any gay Amish read this comment think about following who you are. Yes you lose family and friends but you gain your happiness and true self. I have lived it so I have a fair idea. This is such a wonderful channel
If you have the stomach, read “Abandoned Prayers,” a true crime book by Gregg Olsen, about an Amish man who was homosexual and turned to murder. The fate of his little son, who he took with him while on the run, is especially tragic.
I just hope that readers will realize that this is simply a story and not a suggestion that LGBTQ people of any sex have a greater propensity to commit murder than heterosexuals.
This is very interesting bc i always wondered how people with zero knowledge of something like this , and moreover zero concepts of even what it is, could possibly deem it wrong. I grew up in a small town , and hit HS in late 90s . I never heard the word gay or homosexual ever that i can remember, until i was in college,and i was always in church. The truth in personal experience without being told what that experience is and how to feel about it and if its right or wrong is very interesting and significant. The amish are in many ways including this an important study in how we create social feelings and experiences.
Hello from Dave from Las Vegas. Being Gay in Texas from 1940 on and Southern Baptist family with 6 brothers, try to imagine what i witnessed . Thank u. Dave
Always I have found fascinating the idea to live a committed relationship and life with a partner in faith in a community like the Amish one. I am already beard 🧔 lol
You’re right, it is offensive on many levels. Being homosexual is not aberrant behavior, it’s not limited to humans as there are innumerable examples of homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom. I’ve said this many times before and will state it here once again: religion, regardless of the faith, is a power grab, done for wealth, power, and/or control. In addition, as I understand it, the Amish are Christians, believing in a just, forgiving, and loving god. Now by deduction, would it not be a cruel and unjust god that is wrathful to create a person with a soul to desire and need such "sinful behavior"? I don’t care who you are, what you believe, or what is expected of you: there is a subset of society that will love and accept you regardless of what you fundamentally are, find them and allow your life to be joyous and harmonious with those around you.
You mentioned how gayness is thought of like or worse than other sexual sins. But it's easy for straight people to avoid this sin in the Amish world, just get married. Then you can have sex. But gay people would have to get rid of their entire identity and live a sad life to avoid this sin. It's not right. I personally think that straight people can be incredibly cruel about this, and don't even try to understand. It's so easy to condemn others for something that you yourself would never need to do.
I’ve always wondered if we are all sinners, if all sin is equal, and all sin can be forgiven, what makes being LGBT the big bad? After my pastor gave a sermon against gay sin, I asked him after the service when we should stone him, before or after service? He was confused. I politely responded that he had admitted to having sinned, had an extra marital affair, had premarital affair, admitted to lust, admitted to lying, I know he eats shellfish, and here he stood before the congregation wearing clothes made of more than one fabric, all of which are sins worthy of stoning. He became livid, it was a messy scene. I didn’t raise my voice, but after I asked my question he was livid. I’ve never ever been called so many four-letter words let alone by my pastor in the middle of the congregation after a service. The answer I came up with is a Church is a business, they fail and get sold or absorbed by other congregations all the time. They NEED an enemy, some group(s) they can point at and call them SINNERS and praise their flock for not being like THEM. Creating an enemy of a minority helps them keep the lights on. They selectively chose what scriptures to focus on, while choosing to ignore others. If the Bible says “Whosoever believes in me shall be saved,” that’s what matters. Not saying we shouldn’t sin, just that loving thy brother (fellow man), accepting them and helping minister to them, inviting them into your home and church is what should matter. We are here to bring people to Christ, not drive them away so we v]can pay the light bill.
It never ceases to amaze me that ppl like that will constantly condemn homosexuality between consenting ADULTS but never say one word against pedophilia. I attended a loving Christian school for 8th and 9th grades. They basically taught that God doesn't like homosexuality but He does love gay ppl as much as He loves anyone else. They didn't say the tired expression of "Love the sinner, hate the sin". They simply said to not hate gay ppl and homosexuality is not a reason or excuse to hurt someone.
Religion is not logical nor conclusive. But the reaction is correct, if you want logic, you leave the religion. Most religions don't have the maturity, to say "if you don't believe what we say, you are a bad person". If you apply logic, from "Whosoever believes in me shall be saved" follows directly, "who not believes shall not be saved" (goes to hell). Religious people say "we didn't say this". Logical people say "yes you did". Who says 2+2=4 is true, also says 2+2=5 is wrong, without pronouncing it explicitly.
@@Lokian_Mermaid - That sounds wonderful! I took a psych class and one of the things they covered was self hatred, people often dislike things in others that are most true in themselves. They mentioned a study that showed a surprisingly high percentage of “homophobes” admitting in a blind questionnaire that they had experienced either a homosexual experience or feelings in their youth. Every time I hear someone triggered by an LGBT something or other news article, I remember that class. Straight people aren’t bothered by gays, it’s simply something they don’t understand or get but it’s no big deal because it doesn’t affect them. People who have feelings they haven’t dealt with, haven’t understood or repressed… THEY are deeply bothered by gay people because it hits home. Yes, I get amused at the simple things in life. 😊
@@holger_p - True but I’d like to counter a different perspective. Religion isn’t logical, that’s what faith is about. Instead of leaving religion, consider switching to a more open church. Or studying the Bible to understand it better, the Bible is a huge multi-faceted epic book. You need to read more than a single scripture to understand it. It took a Hebrew class for me to realize that the word used/interpreted as abomination in the Leviticus scripture that reads (rough quote) ‘for a man to lie with another man is an abomination in gods eyes,’ may have a different meaning. There were six words for crimes in Hebrew, often combined to show say a serious crime like murdering your neighbor to take his property, to minor crimes like stealing bread for food. The word used and interpreted as abomination was used again in 1 Corinthians 16, 9 (from memory, might be off a bit) that starts off with Paul saying do you not know that murderers, homosexuals, etc. will not enter the kingdom of God. Then Paul continues afterwards saying but such were some of you, but you were washed, sanctified or justified by Jesus’s name. For I can do all things, for I am not mastered by any of them, for it is not profitable for me. The Hebrew word is the same, translated here as “not profitable,” the least of the Hebrew words for crime, such as stealing bread for food. I believe the Bible, but I question the interpretation of the scriptures by man.
@@Erin-Thor It's beyong my imagination to "go shopping" for a religion and pick one you like. You need to be brought up with this idea by your parents, to join this world in general. I think for gay people, this doesn't make a difference, its about leaving your parents or your church or not. Knowing what is right does not always correspond to the emotions involved. It makes no difference, if you leave to attheism or to another religion. I don't believe any of these, I just accept it as part of history. In the time before laws and courts (code civil in France 1789) they took the role of guiding people. Before siegmund freud, they also took care of mental health. Some functions of church are replaced, and in other aspects they are simply unable to modify themselves, and follow the trend of people. Mainly they want to hold them back, if they try to change.
I've heard homosexuality talked about in this manner quite a bit, however I've never understood why the Amish bring up adultery other then it is a "sin." Homosexuality is a sexuality in the sense as it's a identity your born with which is also classified as a "sin," where as adultery is a betrayal of trust that is also a "sin," those 2 are not the same unless your just talking about the "sin" part. Now when you talk about having sex before marriage, that I understand completely because that is a control mechanism many religions use to bring you in line just like when you said that if the Amish did allow same sex marriage it would erode the control that the Amish church has over it's flock. That is something I can understand, I completely feel it is a disgusting way to treat our fellow humans, but as a tool to control and force people to do what they want so others don't have to feel uncomfortable or threatened, it makes complete sense. Ah...tradition...
Nice video. But I always wonder what gives a person the right to tell another person whom he should sleep with. And if he sleeps with someone of his own sex, what gives them a right to deny him housing, employment and other basic human rights?
Like the members of Holiness/Pentecostal family, they are certain they speak for God. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO GOD IS, MUCH LESS SPEAK FOR HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A "right" of a person to "tell" another person whom he should "sleep" with completely mistargets the source of the idea. Thousands of years of a functioning society is based on a set of principles, stemming from a proven system of regenerancy. One does not argue from the simplicity of pointing fingers to a human individual. Placing a scapegoat is for creating a strawman to hate because it's convenient, where the ideology of marriage comes from an original plan, one that every individual struggles to follow.
At 95, I've witnessed the change in society particularly in the case of homosexuality. I am glad for the changes that have taken place because of the freedom to make our own choices. To exercise our free agency is more important, to me, than life itself. I remember, as a youngster hearing of old maids and old bachelors and wondered why they didn't marry. Then, as the years passed, I remember hearing of homosexuals who were murdered because others hated them. People have become more educated and understanding to those first few individuals who came out openly and declared themselves. It took courage. Now, people are far more accepting of gay people. There are 8 billion people on this earth and each and everyone is as different from the other as snowflakes are. Not one is the same. I have a large family, am a great great grandfather, too. Not one in my family is the same as another. I love each and everyone. One is gay in a same sex marriage. I love that grandchild no less than the others. The point is that I know our Heavenly Father loves ALL 8 billion of us the same way. I therefore don't fret over the matter but let Him consider the effect of our choices. I just try to do what I think is right. None of us is perfect. So, at 95, I am a happy camper.
If you take a literal reading of the Bible then everyone agree to the same thing. But every reading is subjective and opinions differ, spoiling the literal reading idea.
I've known gay & lesbian Amish for the last 30 or so years. I've known several that got married, started a family & committed suicide. I know one that's a closet drunk because he's gay and feels trapped in his marriage - I'm pretty sure he's got an English friend with benefits. I've known ex-Amish that left because they were gay. One of them started to run around with other ex-Amish and confided that he left because he's gay - he committed suicide when the ex-Amish rejected him. They have about the same rate of gays & lesbians as the general population but, most get married and sacrifice their individual happiness to conform to their community. Like many cults, it's a sad situation for many of them.
@@silent1967 NO it's not. God made them that way. It's a sin of you to judge his creation and judge when he is the only one able to judge, not you. You will go to hell for what you do, be careful.
@@Alejojojo6 No, gay is a choice. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah. Didn't turn out to good did it. I can make a judgment call, I can't condemn anyone but I can judge that being gay is a sin, no different than any other. You best go back and read the Bible again.
Authors Andrew Grey and Keira Andrews each have written gay romance novel series with Amish characters that imagine what it would all be like to find oneself both gay and Amish. Both are good series leaving much to think about.
About 20 years ago I spend an afternoon talking with an Amish woman in Lancaster PA. We were the same age (early 30s) and we were discussing how different our lives were from each other. I was a single lesbian living in Philadelphia, while she was married and had two sons. She was not judgmental at all about my gayness. I think we just found each others lives, and our differences, fascinating. We were very open with each other, and it was a lovely conversation.
We are not each other's judge only Jesus is our judge. He tells us how we should live, since I'm a Jesus follower it's my delight to follow the Bible.
@@itravisoni How do we know what's right from wrong then?
@@jintanesss1417 You ask Jesus about any question You have. I've had many problems and situations like You have and if I have something on my mind that I'm not sure about I ask Him. I also go and look up a chapter in my Bible.
@@itravisonithe bible was not written by Jesus... it was written by men.... Paul never even met Jesus in life. Anyone could have Jesus appear in a dream....most ideas of what defines sin comes from people wanting to control other people.
@@orpheus1180 Yes You are correct. It was written by Men through the inspiration if the Holy Spirit though Jesus is the only way to the Father.
My grandparents were old order Amish. I was raised in the Mennonite church. I am a gay man with my same sex partner who I am with 28 years now. My family has not had contact with me in years. My grandfather treated me as invisible and dead for years before his death. He was a pretty hateful man as I see it. I have stopped trying to get anyone to accept or love me from my previous community. I am who I am and they are who they are. I just accept it as it is. It has been sad and lonely to not have any family ties. However; I am a free man and I have a wonderful life. The “world” is a better place then they would ever acknowledge or ever know. “Religion poisons just about everything,” as the late Christopher Hitchens once said. Thank you Erik for your telling of our story.
I am so sorry
I'm sorry you had to experience that. Religious people can be a pain. They forget about the teachings of Christ. Love, forgiveness and not be judgemental
@@leilanigreenwood5064 that is kind of you to say. Thank you! Christian’s also forget that the Christ figure is the one who first introduces the idea of hell and humans being burned in a lake of fire forever if you do not “love” him. I am a little more kind and benevolent to people than the Jesus of the Bible. I would never hurt or threaten anyone if they simply did not love me. Heck, I have had that happen many times in my life and I have still been kind to these who do not find me their cup of tea. It is funny how Jesus seems so much more “mean” than most people I meet on the street. What do people see in the Jesus figure as good and kind, when in fact, according to his own words, he is unfair, narcissistic and vengeful? To make such a proposition to anyone, ( love me or burn) is an immoral position to take. I am not so sure I see all the goodness and kindness that others see in their Jesus figure.
I am so sorry I wish I could be your friend. Stay strong my family disowned me too but I'm better for it I don't need them.I am happy.
@@dyinteriors Sometimes I wonder about the teachings myself. I have been knocked by some many Christians before I refuse to denounce, condemn homosexuals.
I was Amish and straight. My niece my sis youngest daughter is gay and my only surviving brother is bi. I don't judge.
People like you genuinely make the world a better place to live in. Thank you.
YOU don't judge. But what about the your religion? Are you no longer with The Amish? Are your niece and brother still associated with the community?
I didn’t know you could be on RUclips or even have a computer. Am I wrongly informed?
@@renzo6490it’s not a sect
@@Livinglife595
Very well…
As a gay male watching this, well done providing information without the judgment.
You have to be kidding. As a gay Black Christian, The entire video was a big haphazardness of clustered homophobic judgment, down to "cases of people openly gay leaving Amish/Mennonite identity are rare". Basically implying that there is no escape. Wow smh.
@@taralen1101 You can't be gay and Christian.
@@silent1967 You can. If you want to go there, the only thing is gay marriage and gay sexual relationships are sinful. But it's not un Christian, to identify as gay and be celibate. I also don't believe gay is a sin.
@@taralen1101 If you sin in your heart it is no different than doing it as far as God is concerned. Read your Bible.
@@silent1967
YOU and ONES like you are what is known as 'a hard cases.'
God's Nature was not made by Him to be mocked, which
you and your mystical books and beliefs morphing to faith
in the existence of the INVISIBLE and tangibly UNKNOWABLE
certainly do!
Eventually in one way (or ways) or others, you will suffer
for it. She will kick your ass if challenging Her past some
point by yourself unknowable. (Only She so-does.)
I've no advice for you or your compeers in mystery and
the unknown except KEEP YOUR DISTANCE oh-young-one!
Rejoinder???
You know what? You made a righteous and thoughtful explanation of this "unique" social/religious construct. Can't imagine the pressures an Amish person might be facing with this kind of dilemma.
If you choose to stay self control not too hard if you are a true believer
@@CarterKey6 "it's not that hard to deny who you truly are!" you're sick.
go find an actual issue to worry about because queer people are perfectly fine.
The pressures felt by a gay person in the Amish community are nothing like pressures felt by a gay person in a Muslim country.
@@Kaniela-xq8vl
"Are you sure you want to marry that woman, Mohammad? She's 5'10, has a lady's mustache and a very deep voice."
- "Dont worry Dad, I'll manage..."
@@CarterKey6 what a load of old bunk. You have no idea, but to have a clue, abstain all sexual expression in all it's forms. Ie, no relationship, no holding hands, no close expression in any way to another person. Starve yourself, but express all to a woman instead snd only then, you may gain an insight.
Wow, I didn't see this one coming.😊 This topic never crossed my mind. You discussed it very diplomatically. Thanks for enlightening me yet again.
It is heartbreaking how sexual orientation can causeparents to abandon their children
It’s not the sexual orientation that causes them to. It’s their religion of choice that causes them to.
It's usually because of superstitions.
And they learned it from the religious. Don't have to follow a religion to believe in God or believe some of the other things they do.
@@HisCoconutGun it’s called context. The question specifically asked about being Amish and gay. Amish people follow a strict religious principle that has no tolerance for homosexuality. Your sexuality isn’t a choice. Your religion is.
@@garlictyme2472 Agreed. Since homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic Statistical Manual, there has been no secular basis for opposing it. People can have personal prejudices that aren't directly influenced by religious belief but that is the real origin of their prejudice.
Thanks for this insight. As a gay person myself, I feel lucky to be able to come out without having to give up much despite coming from a fairly conservative culture (relative to American culture anyway). I can't imagine the dilemma an LGBTQ Amish individual must face. It would be hard to choose between how you truly feel and your entire community, not to mention your own religious beliefs. I don't judge any person that decides to stay in the closet. But I do hope they find inner peace.
John 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
@@Jesus_paid_it_all who knew that 2023 years after his death, jesus would have payed christ-bots to spam the comments of youtube comment sections. stop shoving your bigoted religion down everyone's throats. thanks!
Just wanted to say that I really appreciate the way you handled this loaded topic. Informative, clear, and not just telling either side what they want. A real rarity on the internet. Thanks for what you do!
I appreciate that!
God bless and thank you for your analytical presentation !!!
I appreciate you keeping it very neutral and educative
You handled this sensitive subject in a balanced and nonjudgmental manner. Thank you.
Yes, That was so Beautiful! You are quite wise and balanced, sir.
can u define what is a woman? bec u certainly dont understand what fair & balance is, his perspective is on the side of gay people w/o input from Amish people
he only says gay people hv to navigate the Amish community & has never mentioned the difficulties the Amish community has w/entitled gay people who force their promiscuous lifestyle on the Amish community
@@grahepo who pushes their sexuality on others? Most commercials have straight couples and only ones trying to push others to be like them are religious folk. Or straight privileged conservative folk. We just want to exist and the same rights as you.
That's it. You dont want us to have that.thats fine, has nothing to do with anything 9ther than it's different and not you.
why are u thinking its the bare minimum?
# Holy Scripture TELLS US TO "JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY" # STOP TIP TOEING AROUND SIN.....CALL IT OUT & Call Sinners to REPENTANCE.
A wise old quote that I live by: "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
# WEAK
#Awesome
Amen @chrisf5053 amen
Great videography. Grew up Southern Baptist with 6 brothers. Born 1940, so u take from there and try to imagine the atrocities I witnessed. I have subscribed and thank u. Ever want to hear about growing up from 1940 on , say hello. Dave here
There is this book called Farm Boy, it's not about exactly the same subject as this videos: and I don't know if there is even any Amish account; but I can say there are plenty of people in that book that had similar stories and discussed most of the topics you described here. In many cases you just sublimate, but certainly there are guys that don't care about their "spouses" because they tend to find women that are either understanding or lesbians/bisexuals that don't harass them about their sexuality.
That sounds like a very sad and lonely way to live, hiding behind a facade like that
This is about what I thought the Amish would feel on this topic. I always enjoy your videos thank you Erik
Great information Erik, you always present things factually without interjecting your own personal feelings or opinions and I like that. I'd say homosexuality is a hot topic for many whether you are Amish or non-Amish, right or wrong I'd say it's a personal thing, and you have to choose how you will handle the opinions of others. Thank you for sharing on a topic that makes so many people angry and or nervous.
I continue to find it sad and disturbing that religion nearly always makes life for people of the lgbt+ community difficult and unhappy. Why is it that "christians" are so often intolerant, narrow minded and judgemental when Christ in fact, preached the exact opposite. It seems to me that an awful lot of people who claim to be christian, never actually moved out of the old testament into the new testament. There is a world of difference between claiming to be christian and actually being one. Saying you are christian is easy, being one requires a change of heart. It would not surprise me if most christians are fans, but not actual followers of Christ.
Ew. These are peoples lives it’s not as much of a debate as you think it is…
If it were a personal thing, we wouldn't have to vote on whether gay people can get married, or whether people have control over their own bodies, especially adults who should be free to seek what care they need or want.
But I do think it's nice to see this video, since the creator of the video is not supporting discrimination towards either community, he is just outlining a culture's normal and expectations.
I appreciate this breakdown, the deeper issues of religious belief ruling over the deeper messages of "love thy neighbor" and being Jesus- like are topics people need to discuss and consider separation of church and state in the USA
Excellent job of portraying the Amish views of homosexuality without being judgemental. This is a breath of fresh air and much needed in today's combative society. Thank you.
Agreed 👍
That’s because the Amish don’t tend to be combative about their views. If you don’t bring that energy into universe, it doesn’t often come back your way. That’s a lesson the evangelical right can learn from the Amish. Leave folks alone and they’ll leave you alone.
@@bernardwylie9760 Yes, they aren't combative. They just pick off the lone, vulnerable gay targets, one by one.
@@jasonthewatchmansson8873 There are truly far worse homophobes in America who are far more combative, confrontational, connected to political power, and resort to violence. As a gay person, I’m truly not worried about the Amish.
calling it a sin is judgmental, the Amish don't believe in modern tech just tech from the time of the founding, stupid religion is stupid and muddles morality and thinking, you can't even perceive that it is judgmental, a testament to the blindness religion creates in a person. It is nonsense, wake up. The bible has thousands of errors and contradictions and you cannot even see them, again a testament to the blindness such systems create. Nature testifies against you.
I had a very similar dilemma years ago. I chose to be myself over my religion. Yes, I had to pruned away toxic friends and relatives, but in the end, life is a lot healthier and happier!
Good for you. Life is for living as we are - not being brainwashed by unethical, evil, hypocritical religions!!!
i’m so happy for your brave and loving choice!!
I wish more of us interacted with cultures not our own and developed trusted relationships. You set a high bar.
I’m gay and thought you did a tremendous job, I can completely understand why they would choose to marry. It saddens me greatly. But that is what most did just 75 years ago.
I celebrate you for knowing yourself. I was asked several decades ago, by a very dear friend who is gay, how would I feel if my son told me he was homosexual? I told him that my feelings for him would never change. I love my son. But i would feel sad for the challenge he would have with those who didn't approve. Our society is more open and I hope more understanding/accepting than it was in the 1980's. But in my opinion, we still have a long way to go in respecting and appreciating each other's differences. To me, a person is a unique and vital part of the whole. The more diverse the pieces, the more beautiful the quilt.
Why, they will be in heaven and you will not.
@@silent1967 That is your opinion. Not a fact. This is an inconsiderate and cruel response.
Jesus taught Christians that God, not people, makes all the Judgements. And Jesus came to save us from them. Careful, or by your words here, you might be stepping into sin yourself...
@@karenfitzpatrick6256 Truth hurts, Jesus will say he never knew you.
@@silent1967 I do not believe He would, because He does know me. I'm imperfect, but I'm faithful. He loves me. You can't shake my faith with your beliefs.
Hi Erik, another informative video. Thanks for sharing.
An interesting topic. I had to deal with a similar dilemma as that young Amish guy. I chose to be myself. In retrospect, I am happy that I made that choice. There is just one God-given life that each of us has, and when that time comes, when there is no more running, when one is right then and there with oneself, the last thing I would want to reflect on is "what if". What if I had more courage? What if I lived the life the way I wanted to live? What could have been? Those questions would be hard to swallow.
I just wanted to say that you are awesome, and that I'm really glad that the world gets to know the real you :)
So you're gay then and rejected the miserable life other would make you have. Regardless of what you do, they go to bed at night and don't give you another thought. That is the reality.
I'm not Amish and I daily wonder what my life would have been like had I not yielded to my family's pressure and manipulation and live my life as had been best for me and what I wanted and needed from life rather than what was best for them. I could have had a life and happiness. I didn't. I feel your pain more than words can express. Wishing you happiness and the man of your dreams for the rest of your life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@josephr.gainey2079 Where are you in life sir? I know it sounds like life has passed, but could you still do it? A common friend at least? Something for the tough life you had?
@@josephr.gainey2079 you're not dead yet, and you were born to be uniquely yourself and nobody else. Do you want to go to the grave never having been the person you were meant to be? You get one chance. Don't think it's too late. It's never too late. It's work, it's disruptive, but all it takes is you wanting it badly enough, and it'll fall into place. Think about it
When I was in DC I had a wonderful and interesting former Amish boy for a housemate in a house of 3. He had many stories such as the only phone on the farm was in the cow barn to be used only for the health of the cows. As a gay man he left. Ernie was very interesting and I wish I had kept in touch.
This is not something I thought about for the Amish. This video is very thought provoking and interesting that they struggle with. Hard choices to make. TFS 🙏👍
Not related to this subject and there doesn't seem to be a video that covers this subject. Are their many disabled Amish in the community and what if any support is given to them. Been disabled myself I am interested how this would fit into the Amish lifestyle?
If you would quit loving your children because of their sexual orientation, then you never really did love them to begin with!
You can still love someone and hate the sin. That won't keep them out of Hell though.
If I had kids, I would not mind them having same sex relationships as long as they weren't hardcore degenerate freaks that feel the need to shove their sexuality down everyone's throat. I would disown in that case.
@@silent1967Love the sinner, hate the sin! Sins of the flesh do not send one to hell, though. Hell is for people who abuse children and animals!
@@gregingram4996 You're dead wrong on that buddy.
@@silent1967love the sinner, hate the sin? Love the Christians, hate the religion. Got it.
This seems very, very similar to the practice and views on homosexuality and sexuality in general in the Orthodox churches.
Not only the Pope, but many many clergy are speaking up after seeing the discoveries of the biblical scholars proving that the scripture on homosexuality has been misinterpreted.
Declaring scripture dealing with homosexuality teaching needs to change.
Here is a Cardinal.
“Homosexuality is not a sin. It corresponds to a Christian attitude when two people, regardless of gender, stand up for each other, in joy and sorrow,” he said. The value of love was also shown in “not making the other person an object, not using him or her or humiliating him or her.”
Cardinal Marx added: “LGBTQ+ people are part of creation and loved by God, and we are called upon to stand against discrimination.” He also said, “Those who threaten homosexuals and anyone else with hell have understood
@@joey9562 The Pope isn't Orthodox. Neither is Cardinal Marx. And there are many, if not most, Catholics who would say that the Pope and Cardinal Marx aren't exactly Catholic. We don't have to do or believe everything the Pope and hierarchy do. We especially do not have to do or believe anything that the Pope and hierarchy do that are contrary to the teaching of God. In the end times, the Pope will be acting at the behest of the Antichrist, even as the Church remains the true Church established by Jesus Christ. We have to be careful not to worship the Pope or take his words as Gospel commandments.
@@joey9562
The pope still considers homosexual relations a sin though and that will never change within the Catholic Church because you can’t change the sacrament of marriage, meaning gays can never marry, meaning they will always be sinning when they have sex.
You did an excellent video explaining this and touching on this sensitive subject! As always your videos are fascinating! The photography you show is excellent and beautiful! I was visiting Lancaster (Bird in Hand, Intercourse, Strasburg) today and thought of you. 😉
🙂🙂
What a pleasure to see something discussed so rationally and in such a straightforward manner. This approach to other such topics would do a lot to demonstrate the incredible power of balanced reporting by journalists. Great job!
Thank you for another and informative insight into the Amish life, love all what you do :)
My now husband for 12 years, was born among the Amish community, and he lived in the community for over 18 years of his life. Since he is really not very stereotypically gay, in fact he Its very "straight looking" because he was raised that way (you know, men have to do manly stuff), no one suspected it, thus his parents soon arranged a wedding with a girl from her community. He had so much anxiety and panic about it that he simply left the community overnight. He found work as a carpenter quite easy (he's really good handy man). It was extremely tough. He said there are others in the community and that "gay sexual relations" do happen in secrecy but its rare. Its extremely taboo. Many end up marrying but he couldnt live a lie to himself, so he decided better to leave with the english. He didnt drink but says he felt compelled to it because of his lonelyness. All friends and family were in the community and thought about going back and ask to be allowed to stay single. He is the fourth of twelve siblings and a couple (a sister and a cousin) left the community and thats the only family he has contact with (quite frequently actually).
Then, fast forward a couple years later I was on a travel over the US and met him casually because he was the friend of a friend I had met at English school and was gay like me, it was instant connection. He later was curious to visit me over in Europe, specially germany and switzerland since he could "somehow" get the language. I moved to the US to be with him for over 1 year (on student visa) and when it was over he came to visit me in Switzerland and stayed for some studies as well. Four years later we married and he finally moved to live here permanently, where we got a lovely farm (he wanted one and I like farm live as well). So now he gets to live almost as he did back in the states ironically.
I was wondering, if you grow up Amish, but don't become a member as an adult are you still allowed to visit with your family?
in most cases, yes
@@emmib1388 Thanks for that.
Being Amish is more than a religion. It’s a culture, like being a Jew. If you’re born into an Amish community, you’re Amish.
Well approached and explained. I never thought about this occurring within the Amish community - just not a thought in the course of my general thinking - but you were very eloquent and tactful in addressing the subject. We are all human and we all suffer human nature's challenges. The choices we make while facing them is what it comes down to. You left me with this thought and it makes me feel more empathetic toward others who may be facing a personal dilemma. Thank you.
Thank you Mimi and well said by you!
I know of 3 gay Amish. Mervin is married with 3 kids. Isaiah is 19 and struggling if he wants to leave the faith. And Luke left the community 2 years ago and has a husband.
I've been asking Eli Yoder about this for a while now but could never get an answer. Thank you for tackling this issue. It sounds like even tho they consider it a sin unlike English society they don't weigh it more heavily than any other sin.
That makes perfect sense because to God, a sin is a sin.
You did excellent in your neutrality and I much appreciate it. Well done!
Good video. You bring-up an interesting point. Given the dominance of electronic media in English society, how do the Amish stay informed without Internet or TV? Newspapers? Crystal-set AM radio? I presume the schools are also without electronic aids to instruction?
Correct; most are one room school houses; that only go to grade 8.
Generally more old-fashioned ways - newspapers, hearing news from non-Amish friends, discussion in the community, and some will also hear AM radio when traveling with a driver longer distances to work, trips, etc.
Thank you for a great presentation !
Several years ago, moving across the country, my friends and I traversed across Pennsylvania. I'd only seen Amish folk and their buggies and all in films and t.v., like most people. My friends and I were joking, but respectfully, that you wouldn't see any buggies with flames painted on the sides or gold rims. I felt a little sad stating the obvious, "and you won't see any rainbows on them either."
God never made anyone gay. And the rainbow is God's not for sin.
I have a couple video suggestions for you if you read this. First- I think it would be interesting to see how the Amish pay for things. I see them always shopping at Walmarts and Home Depot! I was wondering if they use a bank card, and how would they manage a bank account without a phone or computer? Second- do the Amish suffer from diseases like diabetes, Parkinson’s, psoriasis etc? It would be interesting to know due to the way they eat compared to the English ways of eating. Thanks!
Anna Volkov, having lived in a Amish community I can answer that question. The Amish do not use credit or debit cards. Nor do Amish stores accept them as a means of payment. Amish use cash and checks only. They manage their bank accounts the old fashioned way, with paper statements that come in the mail. The Amish do get those diseases but in a lesser degree. The hard physical work they do has a positive effect on their bodies and mitigates some of the potential harm less healthy food might bring. The Amish have accepted many "modern" things such as "convenience" foods, so cooking from scratch doesn't always happen. It is not unusual these days to find Amish cookbooks that use convenience foods, such as a can of soup, in the recipes. One Amish store I shopped at did have some boxed dinners, bags of cookies, and such. But the majority of items were "ingredient" type foods.
Imagine if the Amish church considered left-handedness as a sin. The parallels are clear.
But..... the book says.....
@@JacquesMareJohn 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Excellent presentation Erik 👍
Billions of prayers to not be gay anymore. Some were mine. Those prayers were not answered. That destroyed what little faith I had, which was entirely gone by age 15.
I have many resources that would help with your knowledge & acceptance; contact me will be glad to share as i have also given copies of all to my PTSD counseling-therapist. Can give you my email or cell number also to chat.
So, live your truth! Hope you are well.
Hope you figure out where you went wrong before you die.
Return to Jesus. In this life we all have "unanswered prayers". But God gave is the best gift of all: eternal life.
John 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
I am now a gay atheist and I could not be more elated to be done with this superstitious nonsense that almost took my life. Religion poisons just about everything. I am free at last.
I'm gay, believe in God. What I don't understand is why other Christians are so judgmental towards other people? Not just gay people in particular, but anyone that's not exactly like themselves. I've been to churches where the members would squawk and snark at someone wearing jeans on a Sunday morning. I truly do not understand why Christians go so hardcore in judging others when it's clear what the Bible states about judging others. Any who, I believe in one judge and that is God.
I suspect that the transgression of homosexuality can’t really be classified as being simply another form of sexual transgression in that LGBT people are often stigmatized simply for exhibiting traits that are considered to indicate a homosexual inclination. The idea that the person is loved but the sin is rejected is an idea often repeated by socially conservative Christians, however it is rarely if ever the case. Rather, people with acknowledged or even suspected homosexual feelings are often marginalized by their communities. This is particularly painful for young people who are suspected of being gay by their communities before these young people even recognize their own feelings. One grows up feeling less-than prior to having done anything which should cause them to be rejected.
Interesting that same sex activity is so condemned and sinful, being that sex is “ solely for the purposes of procreation “, is it not hypocritical that incest and sexual abuse is so rampant among the Amish, yet kept quiet, swept under the rug, and virtually unpunished? That type of behavior is not meant for the sole purpose of procreation, but, sadly it happens more often that anyone probably knows. Rather, if a perpetrator is caught, usually confessing in front of the congregation absolves him, and he’s free to offend again. More often than not, it is the female who risks punishment or shunning if they come forward, and are yet again placed back into the same situation. And thus the cycle is perpetuated….grandfather to son to grandson, uncle to nephew to cousin, etc. The Amish claim to denounce the ways and beliefs of man, and feel that man-made rules and laws don’t apply to them, yet their rules, or “Ordnum”, are their own, man-made interpretations of God’s word( supposedly). They are not what they seem, and to me, are more of a cult than a sect. Denouncing homosexuality should almost be a non-iss7e, in comparison to the other, rampant sexual sins known and tolerated in and among their communities.
That's a sad point. When sex is seen purely as functional, it ignores sex as bonding intimacy between a couple. And that actually devalues sex to the point where it would make meaningless sex through incest or abuse more likely.
Is masturbation also considered a sin since it is for pleasure and not procreation?
The female mammary glands are made by god solely for the nourishment of newborns.
Is seeing and using them for sexual pleasure considered a sin?
@@renzo6490 Yes.
May I ask, politely and with no sarcasm, what is the source of your information that "incest and sexual abuse is so rampant"?
@@ronhilton9614 It's not rampant, it's in all cultures and societies but it is not rampant.
As we see here, many choose to stay in the closet and marry. They may claim to be happy in marriage, but I have to wonder how fulfilling the relationship ends up being for both individuals in the marriage. I'm glad that when I was in the closet and hoping to change by dating women, and considering marriage, I finally came to the realization that marriage would be a disaster, that at a point I'd eventually come out, and realized the damage and unhappiness it would potentially cause a wife and any children. At that point, I stopped trying to change my sexuality and worked on accepting myself as I am.
I'm glad you accepted who you are. I pray you find love and happiness
That's so nice to hear. I'm a young gay and from a liberal country and culture, so having to be closeted was a non-issue. I'm sorry for the older generations who were not afforded that luxury and we have to realise this was not long ago and much change still needs to happen...
They know that Hell is for eternity, that is why they are trying to stay away from sodomy.
@@silent1967 So is murder, lying, thief, fornication all will see the 🔥 of hell, these all are an abomination in the eyes of God. So it says in Revelations.
@@leilanigreenwood5064 True, Hell is a big place.
Really great job. Informative and well presented.
Sweet, pink handmade fireplaces.
I can't imagine the amount of silent suffering of many young gay Amish youth. I always wondered about this and I grew up in rural PA my whole life as a gay man.
Definitely was refreshing to watch and learn. Was truly educated on a long time question I had been curious about for awhile now. Your approach was so fresh and soothing thank you
Interesting because Homosexuality is as old as Human History. It's always been with us. Some Humans are born that way, just as it occurs naturally in the Animal Kingdom as well.
Sadly to these types of people, it's all a 'test' from God. A cruel and pointless test I argue, but a test to them all the same if you can resist the temptation he apparently let you be born with.
Reminded of that line from Christopher Hitchen's: Created sick and then order to be made well....
Very nicely written script.
I am not even western or christian. I only clicked because the title didn't seem like clickbait which is something I stopped going for; now I just block such folks.
To me, this shows that being gay is a natural acurrance. Even in isolation, away from influence, not even ever hearing about gay people, one can still be gay. It's part of nature
It's a sin none the less.
@@silent1967 Utter nonsense!
@@kingy002 Tell it to Jesus.
@@silent1967 I don't belief in any of that crap.
@@kingy002 That's fine, it's called free will. God loves you so much he will let you choose an eternity in Hell if that is what you desire.
Very educational and valuable. Thank you.
Handled very nicely. Thank you.
You worded this whole thing perfectly. Do other subjects where diplomacy is required.
A gay boy has a decision to stay at home or make smart plans to leave his Amish heritage . I realize it's not that simple . It's a painful situation . No one knows the pain a young man's pain of being gay and in most cases he keeps it secret because he's ashamed . Life is not easy for anyone, but for being GAY in 'secret' is awful . IT SHOULD NOT BE THAT WAY . We're all only human beings .
Thanks for a clear and interesting explanation of the Amish perspective on this issue
✳️ Fun fact - living in PA, gay/bi Amish men seem to enjoy visiting cruising areas here in PA (even if they don't participate they like to watch) #datswatsup
My grandmother was ex-Swartzentruber (one of the most conservative Amish), and I was raised Beachy Amish in Holmes county (for anyone unfamiliar, Beachy Amish are car driving Mennonites, we don't do Rumspringa, etc.) and PennDutch was my first tongue, but English later became my dominant.
I am transgender. I've known this since I was 4, but didn't have the language for it until I was 12. I am 25 now and transitioning. I grew up incredibly suicidal and depressed from a young age, I expressed suicidal ideation from as early as 7, and made an attempt at my own life in my teens. But when I finally was able to pursue transition, for the first time in my life, I learned that I love being alive. I love living. I love everything I am becoming. I, for the first time, love myself. Hormonal replacement therapy has made me feel like less of a stranger to myself, and feel emotions again that i had never felt for most of my life-genuine joy, grief, empathy, everything, rather than just apathy and hopelessness.
A lot of my family rejected me for it, but some didn't. And those who didn't reject me, while not fully on board (but understanding that this is the direction I am taking my life and no longer trying to actively stop it), I love and appreciate with my whole heart. I don't mind if they might still misgender me, because I'm not doing this for their or anyone else's validation; I'm doing this for me, to feel at home in my own body. Any language people might use for me, I don't care. They love me more than they could ever hate what I am, because love endures, and love prevails.
I'm no longer Beachy Amish-Mennonite, I found a home and community in converting to Reform Judaism. But the fact that my dad, who was raised by an Amish woman, chose to love me and eventually respect my decision instead casting me away like others have means more to me than anything else I've ever known. Sometimes they might alter their beliefs and reevaluate how they personally interpret the bible to choose love and acceptance, to love thy neighbor, and to not cast stones.
Sending love and support to you ❤🏳️🌈
I'm glad you're able to be your true self
I hope that works out for you. I’ll check in in 20 years
@@J52d-g well it's already been 21 years of a solid consistency on my identity, and only improving since i started socially transitioning 13 years ago. so i can confidently say it's been working out for me!
@@katidoj I wish you nothing but the best and will freely admit I can’t relate to any of the feelings you have.
I do respect the Amish community. Trying to be the good person that you are. I get it. They do have some pretty cool beards, which I like. I wish there was not a stigma for Amish guys to just be gay. Be who you are. It's not nurture, it's nature. It's taken me about 40 years to kinda figure this out!
I think you did a good job remaining sensitive to both the Amish beliefs, which is their guidance for their daily life with an alternative sexual attraction, that is such a big part of a person's identity. My heart goes out to gays and their loved ones in the Amish community. There is no easy answer.
Is there a problem with different pronunciation of Amish, like Amy or Allan cuz I hear people saying EY-MISH.Is it acceptable or just wrong ? Thank you.
That's so sad. To have to choose between your identity and your community, to live a lie or give up your home, seems an impossible choice.
Why does anyone need to tell their family who they are having SEX with? They can say they’re friends and live together as friends. Simple. 😊
@@DanielJennessII Keeping that kind of secret in such a small community would be very difficult on a long term basis. In a group so firmly family focused, not getting married and living with your "friend" is going to raise questions.
@@DanielJennessII You’re clueless. With such lack of empathy, I doubt you’ll ever find a spouse. If you do, I expect you to tell everyone you’re just friends.
@@DanielJennessII you do realize being gay is more than just "who you sleep with." I don't understand why that's the immediate first thing that comes to mind when you think of gay people.
@@DanielJennessII sexual orientation, including heterosexuality cannot be boiled down to " who you're having sex with". If that's the way you think, I feel sorry for your husband. if in fact you're able to have a relationship that goes beyond sex
that's a shame that the Amish feels that way because there's a lot of good people who are LGBTQ . I'm a Methodist and we love everybody
And that’s how it should be. ❤
To be disciplined for your feelings is critical. If they are worried about going to hell, to hide who you are for all of your life, that is hell in a nut shell itself! I do understand their standpoint on not wanting to lose their community, etc, but sometimes, most times, an individual needs to way the good versus the bad. Lying is a sin and just because you live a life as a straight male or female but crave the same sex, you’re lying. That’s a sin in its self.
Amen.
But, how many of us would have the strength--especially given the almost total isolation from the outside world many of these groups have. Saying "the Amish" is in reality like saying "the Baptists" or "the Jews" or "the Muslims" in that it implies that the named group is one monolithic group all of whom think alike and act alike. The truth is much more complex than that. Even the Old Order Amish (and that's what most people think of when they hear the word "Amish") are different in practice, if not belief, especially when it comes to the use of technology and interaction with the outside world. The last edition of Amish Society by John A. Hostetter (1993) contains a section on the subdivisions within an Amish settlement in western Pennsylvania (ranked 9th in size among the 60+ settlement areas in the United States). He found over 15 groups, most of which disagreed with each other enough to form separate congregations. Most were not in communion with each other. This settlement numbered only about 4,000 people and didn't include more liberal groups that used automobiles, and who were just as splintered as their traditionalist cousins. Think how divided the larger communities, which can number up to 45,000 people must be!!!! And think how intense the pressure to conform to the ways of your group which usually includes not only your immediate family but their closest kit and kin!!!!!!!!!!
@@josephr.gainey2079 Amish, Muslim, etc ALL face isolation when coming out. But there is a whole community for those that come out and they are accepted, it’s just up to those that are willing to take the first step. Almost ALL religions teach against lying. The person has to chose their own damnation and not all Amish are oblivious more so the Amish have a chance to leave at 16 ( I may be wrong about this age) and experience life outside. They can either A stay away or B go back. There are some Amish that have access to the internet, everyday people outside of the Amish community, etc. Many gay individuals lose family, friends, etc. it’s not just the Amish. They have find/have faith in their selves as do many others regardless of teachings. They are not dumb, they know there’s a whole other world out there.
@@cac2821 If someone is certain of eternity, this life is a very short blip, and the eternal reward for overcoming temporal struggles is well worth the temporary pain. On the other hand, if someone is certain that this life is eternity, and that battling desires of the flesh is the only hell there is, then all kinds of rationales are employed to justify giving in to every craving of the flesh. For example, if I want a donut, but I've already had my fill of daily calories in the form of healthy foods, you might call me a liar for denying myself the fleshly pleasure of the donut. After all, I want the donut, and to deny myself the experience of the donut is to deny the desire I feel. If lying is a sin as you've stated, then according to your moral code, I should eat the donut in order to be honest and truthful. Naturally there are consequences to eating the donut, such as struggles against denying myself pleasures in the future because that rationale will always be there, and struggles with the resulting weight gain that eventually turn me obese, struggles with the metabolic functions and regulatory processes that eventually destroy my pancreas and circulatory system, my heart and even my lungs. But if lying is a greater sin than gluttony, as you've half-stated, then those negative consequences are preferable to committing the sin of lying. That's the logical formula of your argument. It's a good thing we don't get to make choices for others 😊
John 3:7
King James Version
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Romans 3:23
King James Version
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Job 12:7-9
King James Version
7 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
8 Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee.
9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the Lord hath wrought this?
Romans 10:9-10
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
JOHN 3:18
KJ21
“He that believeth in Him is not condemned; but He that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Considering the fact that incest in Amish communities is a prevalent problem which is largely ignored, I find it hypocritical that they chastise gay people for living their authentic lives with the sexual orientation with which they were born.
Religion is a choice, being homosexual is not.
In fact there are genetic diseases that are MORE common in Amish communities because the blood lines are so close. I would guess unless they go out of the particular community odds are fairly high. There are genetic diseases almost exclusive to Amish communities. Google and you will get pages and pages of medical references--not popular articles. To them being homosexual is a choice. But all the research they don't read says otherwise. Also homosexual is really more than sex, it is who you want to hang with and do things with. Even young kids have a preference re boys vs girls, etc. that's why someone can be gay at 10. There are also people who have left the Amish with huge difficulty--one of the problems is when you do this often times the rest of the group shuns you so you can't keep your family ties. I know something about cults, having left one, though in my case the group doesn't practice shunning. Some families will accept a family member secretly, afaik.
This was the POV of the entire country when I was small. There has always been an acceptance of lesbians in most of the Western Christian countries, because as Queen Victoria commented, she didn't think female "friendships" were a threat because it was more a matter of better two virgin girls be intimate (not too intimate, mind you, kissing and hugging mostly) but for a man to do that just seemed horrible
After watching this I can finally understand opinions of other society, fifferent countries and nationalities and races . Beliefs are different . It is not the fault of the person (per say) it's the way they were raised . And what they have heard from other family members and friends. This all takes time. Time . Time. Time .
Excellent information and very well presented.🇺🇸🐻
I can’t imagine having to make such a choice between my own Truth and the support of my family and community. As a gay man with rather a liberal (if somewhat spotty) religious upbringing (I identify as a Unitarian Universalist) my ties to the church and its influence on my family were not overly intrusive or so deeply rooted as the Amish. While coming out and living my Truth wasn’t particularly easy, I did have access to information, media, and other people of whom I could avail myself if I had questions. I’m sure for an Amish LGBTQ+ person it must be rather confusing, especially without the resources and the fact that the Amish don’t discuss it. I wish nothing but the best for my LGBTQ+ brothers and sisters in the Amish community and that they may weather their difficult path with both grace and dignity. Thanks for such a neutral presentation of the subject matter.
# There is ONLY ONE TRUTH; AND IT IS GOD'S TRUTH; NOT yours!!
@@Diligent-dp7gi I'll let God tell me what the Truth is so you can sit down and shut your mouth, thank you.
Well explained and a needed presentation. Thanks.
I love the way you say "moment"
My bf actually j left the amish and I assume that's why I got this in my recommended lol. I really like the way you covered this and I find it very accurate. My bf left because he got kicked out by his parents. His parents are keeping it VERY downlow to the point his brothers don't even know why he left, nor do i think they told their local church. They just think it was a personal decision entirely up to him(, which really isn't accurate). His mother is pretty much shunning him. his father and other siblings are trying to keep some distance, but give him a lot of love when they see him. He's 20 now, but told me he did not know the terms gay, bi, etc. until he was about 17-18 & his parents sent him to some form of straight conversion therapy/"counciling". It's been really hard for him, with a lot of doubt and struggles. He's becoming far happier and more comfortable now luckily (its been abt 3 months). A lot of what you said is very much cooperated by what I've seen and I appreciate u spreading information about this really underdocumented topic.
🤢😨☠
You pumping him bro
As gay man from Pennsylvania I find this topic so fascinating. Always wondered what gay Amish did.. well told.
Thanks for covering this subject.Having finally coming to terms with being gay in the early 90s I can well understand the situation people find themselves in. If any gay Amish read this comment think about following who you are. Yes you lose family and friends but you gain your happiness and true self. I have lived it so I have a fair idea. This is such a wonderful channel
not too late to repent from satanic influence
❤❤❤👍🏼
I agree with you
Great perspective, about a community of folk whom treat women like second class citizens.
Well presented.
Thanks glad you thought so
How utterly cruel, sad and lonely. Please pray for them.
If you have the stomach, read “Abandoned Prayers,” a true crime book by Gregg Olsen, about an Amish man who was homosexual and turned to murder. The fate of his little son, who he took with him while on the run, is especially tragic.
The only Amish serial killer
That book was heartbreaking. "Little Boy Blue..." 😢
Was it a fiction or non-fiction?
@@melodiedrury2567 non fiction
I just hope that readers will realize that this is simply a story and not a suggestion that LGBTQ people of any sex have a greater propensity to commit murder than heterosexuals.
I really appreciate this video -- and a question: You have so much beautiful overhead footage, wondering if you're using a drone?
I pay for a couple of services which provide the clips. I've never flown a drone and not sure how well I'd do at that 😅 But might be fun
This is very interesting bc i always wondered how people with zero knowledge of something like this , and moreover zero concepts of even what it is, could possibly deem it wrong. I grew up in a small town , and hit HS in late 90s . I never heard the word gay or homosexual ever that i can remember, until i was in college,and i was always in church. The truth in personal experience without being told what that experience is and how to feel about it and if its right or wrong is very interesting and significant. The amish are in many ways including this an important study in how we create social feelings and experiences.
Hello from Dave from Las Vegas. Being Gay in Texas from 1940 on and Southern Baptist family with 6 brothers, try to imagine what i witnessed . Thank u. Dave
Always I have found fascinating the idea to live a committed relationship and life with a partner in faith in a community like the Amish one. I am already beard 🧔 lol
As a Christian, and a gay men, I cannot imagine the difficulties the gay people must face in this faith.
The Amish faith is Christian, just like Baptist, Adventist, Nazarene, etc.
My college professor is gay. Both he and his mother left and settled just outside of Philly.
You’re right, it is offensive on many levels. Being homosexual is not aberrant behavior, it’s not limited to humans as there are innumerable examples of homosexual behavior in the animal kingdom. I’ve said this many times before and will state it here once again: religion, regardless of the faith, is a power grab, done for wealth, power, and/or control. In addition, as I understand it, the Amish are Christians, believing in a just, forgiving, and loving god. Now by deduction, would it not be a cruel and unjust god that is wrathful to create a person with a soul to desire and need such "sinful behavior"? I don’t care who you are, what you believe, or what is expected of you: there is a subset of society that will love and accept you regardless of what you fundamentally are, find them and allow your life to be joyous and harmonious with those around you.
Just EXCELLENT !
Well put and very understandable from this perspective, and not to say or suggest such as an ideal situation (or not) for some and others.
You mentioned how gayness is thought of like or worse than other sexual sins. But it's easy for straight people to avoid this sin in the Amish world, just get married. Then you can have sex. But gay people would have to get rid of their entire identity and live a sad life to avoid this sin. It's not right. I personally think that straight people can be incredibly cruel about this, and don't even try to understand. It's so easy to condemn others for something that you yourself would never need to do.
Great job. You did maintain objectivity. Thank you.
I’ve always wondered if we are all sinners, if all sin is equal, and all sin can be forgiven, what makes being LGBT the big bad? After my pastor gave a sermon against gay sin, I asked him after the service when we should stone him, before or after service? He was confused. I politely responded that he had admitted to having sinned, had an extra marital affair, had premarital affair, admitted to lust, admitted to lying, I know he eats shellfish, and here he stood before the congregation wearing clothes made of more than one fabric, all of which are sins worthy of stoning. He became livid, it was a messy scene. I didn’t raise my voice, but after I asked my question he was livid. I’ve never ever been called so many four-letter words let alone by my pastor in the middle of the congregation after a service.
The answer I came up with is a Church is a business, they fail and get sold or absorbed by other congregations all the time. They NEED an enemy, some group(s) they can point at and call them SINNERS and praise their flock for not being like THEM. Creating an enemy of a minority helps them keep the lights on. They selectively chose what scriptures to focus on, while choosing to ignore others. If the Bible says “Whosoever believes in me shall be saved,” that’s what matters. Not saying we shouldn’t sin, just that loving thy brother (fellow man), accepting them and helping minister to them, inviting them into your home and church is what should matter. We are here to bring people to Christ, not drive them away so we v]can pay the light bill.
It never ceases to amaze me that ppl like that will constantly condemn homosexuality between consenting ADULTS but never say one word against pedophilia.
I attended a loving Christian school for 8th and 9th grades. They basically taught that God doesn't like homosexuality but He does love gay ppl as much as He loves anyone else.
They didn't say the tired expression of "Love the sinner, hate the sin".
They simply said to not hate gay ppl and homosexuality is not a reason or excuse to hurt someone.
Religion is not logical nor conclusive. But the reaction is correct, if you want logic, you leave the religion.
Most religions don't have the maturity, to say "if you don't believe what we say, you are a bad person".
If you apply logic, from "Whosoever believes in me shall be saved" follows directly, "who not believes shall not be saved" (goes to hell). Religious people say "we didn't say this". Logical people say "yes you did". Who says 2+2=4 is true, also says 2+2=5 is wrong, without pronouncing it explicitly.
@@Lokian_Mermaid - That sounds wonderful! I took a psych class and one of the things they covered was self hatred, people often dislike things in others that are most true in themselves. They mentioned a study that showed a surprisingly high percentage of “homophobes” admitting in a blind questionnaire that they had experienced either a homosexual experience or feelings in their youth. Every time I hear someone triggered by an LGBT something or other news article, I remember that class. Straight people aren’t bothered by gays, it’s simply something they don’t understand or get but it’s no big deal because it doesn’t affect them. People who have feelings they haven’t dealt with, haven’t understood or repressed… THEY are deeply bothered by gay people because it hits home. Yes, I get amused at the simple things in life. 😊
@@holger_p - True but I’d like to counter a different perspective. Religion isn’t logical, that’s what faith is about. Instead of leaving religion, consider switching to a more open church. Or studying the Bible to understand it better, the Bible is a huge multi-faceted epic book. You need to read more than a single scripture to understand it. It took a Hebrew class for me to realize that the word used/interpreted as abomination in the Leviticus scripture that reads (rough quote) ‘for a man to lie with another man is an abomination in gods eyes,’ may have a different meaning. There were six words for crimes in Hebrew, often combined to show say a serious crime like murdering your neighbor to take his property, to minor crimes like stealing bread for food. The word used and interpreted as abomination was used again in 1 Corinthians 16, 9 (from memory, might be off a bit) that starts off with Paul saying do you not know that murderers, homosexuals, etc. will not enter the kingdom of God. Then Paul continues afterwards saying but such were some of you, but you were washed, sanctified or justified by Jesus’s name. For I can do all things, for I am not mastered by any of them, for it is not profitable for me. The Hebrew word is the same, translated here as “not profitable,” the least of the Hebrew words for crime, such as stealing bread for food. I believe the Bible, but I question the interpretation of the scriptures by man.
@@Erin-Thor It's beyong my imagination to "go shopping" for a religion and pick one you like.
You need to be brought up with this idea by your parents, to join this world in general.
I think for gay people, this doesn't make a difference, its about leaving your parents or your church or not.
Knowing what is right does not always correspond to the emotions involved.
It makes no difference, if you leave to attheism or to another religion.
I don't believe any of these, I just accept it as part of history. In the time before laws and courts (code civil in France 1789) they took the role of guiding people. Before siegmund freud, they also took care of mental health.
Some functions of church are replaced, and in other aspects they are simply unable to modify themselves, and follow the trend of people. Mainly they want to hold them back, if they try to change.
I've heard homosexuality talked about in this manner quite a bit, however I've never understood why the Amish bring up adultery other then it is a "sin." Homosexuality is a sexuality in the sense as it's a identity your born with which is also classified as a "sin," where as adultery is a betrayal of trust that is also a "sin," those 2 are not the same unless your just talking about the "sin" part. Now when you talk about having sex before marriage, that I understand completely because that is a control mechanism many religions use to bring you in line just like when you said that if the Amish did allow same sex marriage it would erode the control that the Amish church has over it's flock. That is something I can understand, I completely feel it is a disgusting way to treat our fellow humans, but as a tool to control and force people to do what they want so others don't have to feel uncomfortable or threatened, it makes complete sense. Ah...tradition...
Nice video. But I always wonder what gives a person the right to tell another person whom he should sleep with. And if he sleeps with someone of his own sex, what gives them a right to deny him housing, employment and other basic human rights?
Like the members of Holiness/Pentecostal family, they are certain they speak for God. THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO GOD IS, MUCH LESS SPEAK FOR HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A "right" of a person to "tell" another person whom he should "sleep" with completely mistargets the source of the idea.
Thousands of years of a functioning society is based on a set of principles, stemming from a proven system of regenerancy.
One does not argue from the simplicity of pointing fingers to a human individual. Placing a scapegoat is for creating a strawman to hate because it's convenient, where the ideology of marriage comes from an original plan, one that every individual struggles to follow.
At 95, I've witnessed the change in society particularly in the case of homosexuality. I am glad for the changes that have taken place because of the freedom to make our own choices. To exercise our free agency is more important, to me, than life itself. I remember, as a youngster hearing of old maids and old bachelors and wondered why they didn't marry. Then, as the years passed, I remember hearing of homosexuals who were murdered because others hated them. People have become more educated and understanding to those first few individuals who came out openly and declared themselves. It took courage. Now, people are far more accepting of gay people. There are 8 billion people on this earth and each and everyone is as different from the other as snowflakes are. Not one is the same. I have a large family, am a great great grandfather, too. Not one in my family is the same as another. I love each and everyone. One is gay in a same sex marriage. I love that grandchild no less than the others. The point is that I know our Heavenly Father loves ALL 8 billion of us the same way. I therefore don't fret over the matter but let Him consider the effect of our choices. I just try to do what I think is right. None of us is perfect. So, at 95, I am a happy camper.
If you take a literal reading of the Bible then everyone agree to the same thing. But every reading is subjective and opinions differ, spoiling the literal reading idea.
I was once in an amish community but i had no idea, i just thought this town was REALLY feeling a fashion trend... I was like work anime lovers.
I've known gay & lesbian Amish for the last 30 or so years. I've known several that got married, started a family & committed suicide. I know one that's a closet drunk because he's gay and feels trapped in his marriage - I'm pretty sure he's got an English friend with benefits. I've known ex-Amish that left because they were gay. One of them started to run around with other ex-Amish and confided that he left because he's gay - he committed suicide when the ex-Amish rejected him. They have about the same rate of gays & lesbians as the general population but, most get married and sacrifice their individual happiness to conform to their community. Like many cults, it's a sad situation for many of them.
Just because their culture is different doesn't mean they're a cult.
@@ia8018 you do not know what a cult is do you
Sin is what it is.
@@silent1967 NO it's not. God made them that way. It's a sin of you to judge his creation and judge when he is the only one able to judge, not you. You will go to hell for what you do, be careful.
@@Alejojojo6 No, gay is a choice. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah. Didn't turn out to good did it. I can make a judgment call, I can't condemn anyone but I can judge that being gay is a sin, no different than any other. You best go back and read the Bible again.
To quote Christopher Hitchens. Religion poisons everything.
Authors Andrew Grey and Keira Andrews each have written gay romance novel series with Amish characters that imagine what it would all be like to find oneself both gay and Amish. Both are good series leaving much to think about.
The Forbidden Rumspringa series was awesome
@@aholl1225 Sure was!