That was a well-told story. It felt pretty true to Amata, trying to do the right thing, and finding out that the world is more complicated that she ever knew.
Tenpenny tower-no, there is a clear good end to this quest, and it's the one where you kill Roy and his band of lunatics. The one that would be considered 'good' normally-trying a diplomatic approach and getting them to let the ghouls in- just ends in tragedy because Roy is an evil psychopath. It's been a while, but I think the game portrays the 'good' path-doing diplomacy to let the ghouls be let in rather than going with the guard captain's idea to just kill Roy or Roy's openly violent route where he wants you to sabotage the generator/doors and let the feral ghouls in to kill everyone- as being an unfortunate tragedy rather than the stupid evil it is because of Roy's ego and petty actions intentionally getting all the human residents killed after they gave him what he wanted and let him in. Honestly even the game kind of realizes this/rubs salt in the wound if you help him with 3 Dog mocking you for the reward Roy gives you-the feral mask. Then again, it could just be tone deaf writing like where the game chides you for not being stupid and going into the radiated chamber and getting yourself killed for no reason when Fawkes/Charon could be right there and do it at no risk to themselves I think I helped Roy the first time because the game portrays Tenpenny tower as cartoonishly evil rich people, especially Tenpenny himself, yet Roy is far worse than any of them bar Tenpenny and Burke, who he's about equal to in evil psychopathy. Every single run since then Roy immediately gets a bullet in the head to be put down like the rabid dog he is Amata certainly would be an interesting run to see from a 'canon' perspective, especially if it was one where *she* is the one getting kicked out of the vault again for stupid reasons like what normally happens in FO3 after you help save 101 from itself yet again even if you do things the best possible way and get people to stop fighting.
The twist with Roy offing the residents anyway is definitely a tragedy. And that's what makes it such a good route to go, because Roy Phillips turns out to be an opportunist taking advantage of the Lone Wanderer for being a good samaritan. Phillips is, in my opinion, a great example of a Neutral Evil character. But I don't think siding with Tenpenny is good either because Gustavo and a handful of others are anti-ghoul, so aiding them doesn't quite feel right either; that and Bessie is clearly not in on Roy's scheme, so she's completely innocent as are the other ghouls you can find wandering around. It is the best of three no-good outcome options though. I disagree about them being cartoonishly evil with the exception of Tenpenny and Burke. Tenpenny gets a pass though cause bro is 80 years old in the Capital Wasteland, his old age probably isn't helping :P If Burke had more depth to him, then maybe he wouldn't come across that way. There's a handful of Tenpenny residents who are jerks, but there are decent folks at Tenpenny Tower. Dashwood, Doc Banfield, Margaret Primrose immediately come to mind. And that's the tragedy behind going the diplomatic route because it teaches the Lone Wanderer that opportunists are out there willing to take advantage of them, that diplomacy isn't the answer because there are people(Roy) who simply can't be reasoned with. It's why I don't like the Boulder City diplomatic route in FNV because there's literally zero reason to not take it unless you're RPing some hardcore anti-NCR route (or flat out helping the Legion), but even then the forgiveness mechanic kicks in after leaving the Lucky 38 and killing the NCR stationed at BC especially doesn't matter. Funny that you mention Burke though, cause Burke & Roy have some interesting dialogue if you take the diplomatic route & Burke is still alive. That part about Fawkes/Charon was just Bethesda being lazy and not having Perlman voice a couple of new lines. As this was clearly the intended ending (the sacrifice), having a small cut scene where a companion decides to stay back and hold the line, say before entering the rotunda, would've been an easy fix. I'm just glad that they fixed the original version where there was flat out no option to send in Fawkes, Charon, or Sgt. RL-3. Being exiled from 101 is actually for the best. Personally? I wouldn't wanna be cooped up in 101 anyway, especially with people who still largely detest me for something I didn't do. Vault 101 is a shithole full of asshats. Amata is correct. The people of 101 are so brainwashed that opening up, slowly, to the outside world is the way to go to better the vault's future. What I really like about an outcome where 101 opens up to the world is that Butch just straight up leaves and can become your companion; he turns out to be one of the only actual decent people from there, a far cry from his youngun days. He's usually my traveling buddy because my canon TLW is neutral-karma :)
@@MidlothianOdyssey I say cartoonishly evil for Tenpenny tower in general because most people will be introduced to it either from Burke who's trying to nuke a town for his boss's amusement or Tenpenny who is literally randomly sniping anyone he sees wandering around as his passive animation and says as much in dialogue. They're the worst of the bunch, but the rest are portrayed as either petty thugs like Gustavo (forgot his name, but he's portrayed as a petty thug as far as I remember, though it has been quite a long time, so maybe I'm misremembering), neutral at best or vain like the various shopkeeps and nameless residents where they're not really actively evil but are disconnected and apathetic to the outside world. The only real unequivocally good character I remember is Herbert, but even he could get lumped in with everyone else in the tower because they support or don't actively rebel/talk back against Tenpenny-passive support for Tenpenny, or tolerance, but still possibly viewed as an accomplice to him for their inaction. All that said, this could just be things being distorted over time since it's been a very, very long time since i last played and saw all the dialogue for that area Personally I like the Boulder City thing since I do prefer times where you can talk everyone down, even if it's very difficult. It depends on the player/Courier's personality, but I could easily see them going about arranging the diplomatic route so they can get the info they want from Jessup before then either turning them over to the NCR to be arrested or just flat out shooting them since he was part of the gang that tried killing you at the start of the game. The great khans in general are an odd faction to get along with since they are glorified raiders and it feels like you're able to be neutral/loosely allied with them because you're an independent agent rather than part of the NCR or other large factions. It doesn't help that the Great Khans are doing stuff like actively making and running drugs for other factions like the fiends, so they feel pretty close to neutral evil at best to me. I say this despite always trying to be on decent terms with them in most playthroughs so I can get access to their armorer who has such a great stockpile of ammo and weapons for sale. Fawkes/Charon 'holding the line'- against what? To get to the purifier you have to clear out everything in your way, there are no hostiles left outside courtesy of Liberty Prime and the BoS, and the inside has already been cleared out by you, Lyons, and anyone else that goes with you. The whole situation is just very awkward and forced because they want to shoehorn in the senseless martyrdom ending and treat you like you're a bad person for not going along with it. This is a long standing gripe I've had about FO3 though, so not worth going more into it I don't think there's any ending to the 101 rescue quest that would actually have you immediately stay there and settle down since you still have to resolve everything with the enclave and project purity at that point, so Amata going 'go save the wasteland' or something similar while she stabilizes things in the vault but that you're welcome back after she gets things calm again and after you've finished your own business outside the vault, or even just stopping by from time to time. The ending ruins it for me though- I can see Amata asking you to stay away for a while so she can try to get a handle on things and settle things in the vault so things can stabilize after the repeated crises that have happened in it because of her father and other situations, but the 'Thanks, now f*ck off forever' thing she ends with even if you solve everything peacefully sours the entire thing, like she's just as much of an ungrateful prat as everyone else in the vault and it might be better off just locking everyone in there and never letting them out, or sabotaging the vault and forcing everyone to leave and risk the wasteland like you were forced to. Amata was a character I liked at the start of the game since she was your friend and did help you out, but what they have her do at the end of the vault 101 rescue quest just makes her seem like an ungrateful jerk who is willing to backstab their lifelong friend who has once again bailed her out of a catastrophe
The Tenpenny residents are apathetic to the outside world. They are civilians at the end of the day trying to survive like anyone else, just they have the good fortune of taking up residence in the safest place in the entire wasteland. Even in real life, tenants are not automatically held to account for whatever shady or outright criminal activity their landlord is involved in. "Fawkes/Charon 'holding the line'- against what? To get to the purifier you have to clear out everything in your way, there are no hostiles left outside courtesy of Liberty Prime and the BoS, and the inside has already been cleared out by you, Lyons, and anyone else that goes with you. The whole situation is just very awkward and forced because they want to shoehorn in the senseless martyrdom ending and treat you like you're a bad person for not going along with it. This is a long standing gripe I've had about FO3 though, so not worth going more into it" There is still the lower level, where we go to put the fuses along with the room where we were born. Have a couple of Enclave goons come from there; your companion & Sarah stays back to deal with them while you face Autumn by yourself(would also make that showdown tougher too), when Autumn and his two bodyguards are dead, Sarah enters the rotunda. When asking for your companion, she says they were injured and are on the way back to the Citadel for medical treatment. Now the player's choice really matters. EIther they die or Sarah dies. Maybe not the perfect solution, but it'd be at least viable enough to get around the problem. Actually, that just made me realize that I have never once tried to enter the lower area during the finale of the vanilla game. I'm gonna have to try that sometime! Definitely agree, the Great Khans are evil; I'd say up until the Bitter Springs Massacre (a tragedy they directly manufactured) they were bordering on Chaotic Evil, as most raiders are; couple that with Papa Khan willing to join the Legion and it makes the notion of them turning a new leaf seem infeasible at first, that is until you get to know them a little better. Shame their content had to be cut so hard, there's a lot more going on with those guys than what we ended up with. For all of the flaws the NCR comes with, the Mojave would be way worse without them. Trouble on the Homefront is basically one giant nod to Fallout 1, right down to the conclusion. Although in Fallout 1's case, the Overseer locking TVD out after they saved the entire wasteland from the clutches of Richard Grey is a serious "wtf" moment. My diplomatic, borderline pacifist, Vault-Dweller was real tempted to shoot him, lol. I didn't, of course, but I remember my character being pretty mad. The residents of Vault 13 come to revere TVD and are getting ideas about leaving the vault or opening it up to the outside world, whereas the Overseer wants to keep them inside and some of his fears are valid. He even admits that he wouldn't be able to function outside himself; I'm convinced that much of the dialogue for Vault 101 was derived from Vault 13 because both Overseers have similar motives, though Almodovar conveys his methods in a more unhinged manner. Next time you play Fallout 3 and do the quest, you should interact with the people after Amata sends you on your way; the rebels have a high opinion of you, naturally, but everyone else still hates you. I do like that Bethesda didn't just cut & paste from Vault 13 while still giving it homage. Vault 101 always gave me the creeps, gave me Jonestown vibes even back when I picked up the game for the very first time. That said, I get where you're coming from. Our takes on that quest are pretty different and that, in my opinion, is the mark of a quest that's pretty well done. And, y'know, different opinions are totally cool :) Your thoughts on 101's peaceful route, as well as Tenpenny, are reminding me of why I like some of the skill checks in Dead Money (my favorite FNV DLC) so much. Passing that Barter check making Dean automatically hostile to the Courier is such a beautiful chef's kiss between making the player cautious of skill checks because they don't always result in the best outcome. Heck, our pal Georgie Boi has less of a reward to offer if we pass his Barter check; we get the exp for passing the check, but less caps (400, down from 600.)
@@MidlothianOdyssey The proposed scenario of the game taking away your companion and having them injured off screen just to force the 'you/lyons *must* die to do this thing' at the end would still rub me the wrong way. I loathe when games do stuff like that, especially in cutscenes where they just have characters injured/killed while your character does nothing for...some reason. It's been ages since I beat FO3, but if I had to guess I would assume that the basement area is just locked off during the final quest. Bethesda has a tendency to do that to lock off areas, just make the doors not work and then access is cut off. Still, could be interesting to see if the basement area is locked off or not during the final quest. It is a shame so much stuff got cut from the game because of time constraints, seeing more with the great khans and the other major factions would have been interesting 101 overseer taking influence from 13 overseer-I think this was confirmed, and the 13 overseer kicking out the vault dweller was a colossal mistake on his part since he ended up causing the very thing he didn't want to happen. 101 being cultlike is an interesting take and I can see it, though it probably is worst off after the chaos where the people are being manipulated by the overseer and he's using force to try to keep people in line. I do remember the rebels of 101 liking you since they like your character helping them and want to get out and explore/at least have contact with the outside world again, something that....I think was known at that point? The older people in the vault would definitely know that the vault was not sealed off for 200 years and people came in and left before, even if the young people didn't know about it. Anyways, i do also remember the faction that's siding with the overseer latching onto hating you because they blame James, and by proxy you, for the stuff that happened even if they logically would know you had nothing to do with it George-doesn't he always have the 407 caps or something unless you make the wager and give him some money? Either way he's a punk who's profiting off of sending people to their deaths from the Boomer's bombardments, so seeing him always suffer and 'unfortunate accident' during your runs so you can get extra caps during the routes is cathartic Dean-he's another one that gets dealt with unless I'm actively trying to go for all challenges or something and need to keep him alive for the challenge that has you keep all companions alive in Dead Money. The more you learn about Dean the worse he gets and it's really tragic what Sinclair and Keyes suffered because of Dean screwing them all over so many times and that Dean is the root cause behind everything going wrong with the Sierre Madre and what it's turned into, though him getting some karma and being trapped by Elijah is amusing since prior to that Dean could have left at any time, but if I remember right I think Dean has killed a number of other people who Elijah trapped to see if he could figure out a way to defuse his bomb collar and escape, so working together with him only works if you soothe his fragile ego and let him claim all the credit for everything that you do and he was planning on backstabbing and killing you too to try and continue his attempts to remove his bomb collar Punishing the player for passing a skill check/challenge is...well, I'll agree to disagree there, especially for the ones that aren't the obvious bad ones like where it's greed and demanding more payment for doing a job for someone that is desperate
Welp, this thread has given me a friendly (and fun) reminder that I really need to make a Discord server! Definitely don't mind the algorithm boost that comes from our convo, but yeah. Definitely need to get on that :P Dean's definitely a bastard and I love him for it. I really enjoy bad guys who are well written because it makes them so much more vile that you love to hate them all the more. I don't like him as a person, but as a well-written & executed character? Hell yeah. It did take me a couple of runs of Dead Money before I understood why he was so aggro on me. Wasn't until I played an absolute meathead of a character who was not only low on Charisma & Intelligence, but they also didn't invest in any skills that didn't involve either swinging that Super Sledge or punching things hard. I was like O_O that is so genius! Queue FNV as Dean Domino challenge sometime in the future!
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
That was a well-told story. It felt pretty true to Amata, trying to do the right thing, and finding out that the world is more complicated that she ever knew.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Tenpenny tower-no, there is a clear good end to this quest, and it's the one where you kill Roy and his band of lunatics. The one that would be considered 'good' normally-trying a diplomatic approach and getting them to let the ghouls in- just ends in tragedy because Roy is an evil psychopath. It's been a while, but I think the game portrays the 'good' path-doing diplomacy to let the ghouls be let in rather than going with the guard captain's idea to just kill Roy or Roy's openly violent route where he wants you to sabotage the generator/doors and let the feral ghouls in to kill everyone- as being an unfortunate tragedy rather than the stupid evil it is because of Roy's ego and petty actions intentionally getting all the human residents killed after they gave him what he wanted and let him in.
Honestly even the game kind of realizes this/rubs salt in the wound if you help him with 3 Dog mocking you for the reward Roy gives you-the feral mask. Then again, it could just be tone deaf writing like where the game chides you for not being stupid and going into the radiated chamber and getting yourself killed for no reason when Fawkes/Charon could be right there and do it at no risk to themselves
I think I helped Roy the first time because the game portrays Tenpenny tower as cartoonishly evil rich people, especially Tenpenny himself, yet Roy is far worse than any of them bar Tenpenny and Burke, who he's about equal to in evil psychopathy. Every single run since then Roy immediately gets a bullet in the head to be put down like the rabid dog he is
Amata certainly would be an interesting run to see from a 'canon' perspective, especially if it was one where *she* is the one getting kicked out of the vault again for stupid reasons like what normally happens in FO3 after you help save 101 from itself yet again even if you do things the best possible way and get people to stop fighting.
The twist with Roy offing the residents anyway is definitely a tragedy. And that's what makes it such a good route to go, because Roy Phillips turns out to be an opportunist taking advantage of the Lone Wanderer for being a good samaritan. Phillips is, in my opinion, a great example of a Neutral Evil character. But I don't think siding with Tenpenny is good either because Gustavo and a handful of others are anti-ghoul, so aiding them doesn't quite feel right either; that and Bessie is clearly not in on Roy's scheme, so she's completely innocent as are the other ghouls you can find wandering around. It is the best of three no-good outcome options though.
I disagree about them being cartoonishly evil with the exception of Tenpenny and Burke. Tenpenny gets a pass though cause bro is 80 years old in the Capital Wasteland, his old age probably isn't helping :P If Burke had more depth to him, then maybe he wouldn't come across that way. There's a handful of Tenpenny residents who are jerks, but there are decent folks at Tenpenny Tower. Dashwood, Doc Banfield, Margaret Primrose immediately come to mind. And that's the tragedy behind going the diplomatic route because it teaches the Lone Wanderer that opportunists are out there willing to take advantage of them, that diplomacy isn't the answer because there are people(Roy) who simply can't be reasoned with. It's why I don't like the Boulder City diplomatic route in FNV because there's literally zero reason to not take it unless you're RPing some hardcore anti-NCR route (or flat out helping the Legion), but even then the forgiveness mechanic kicks in after leaving the Lucky 38 and killing the NCR stationed at BC especially doesn't matter.
Funny that you mention Burke though, cause Burke & Roy have some interesting dialogue if you take the diplomatic route & Burke is still alive.
That part about Fawkes/Charon was just Bethesda being lazy and not having Perlman voice a couple of new lines. As this was clearly the intended ending (the sacrifice), having a small cut scene where a companion decides to stay back and hold the line, say before entering the rotunda, would've been an easy fix. I'm just glad that they fixed the original version where there was flat out no option to send in Fawkes, Charon, or Sgt. RL-3.
Being exiled from 101 is actually for the best. Personally? I wouldn't wanna be cooped up in 101 anyway, especially with people who still largely detest me for something I didn't do. Vault 101 is a shithole full of asshats. Amata is correct. The people of 101 are so brainwashed that opening up, slowly, to the outside world is the way to go to better the vault's future. What I really like about an outcome where 101 opens up to the world is that Butch just straight up leaves and can become your companion; he turns out to be one of the only actual decent people from there, a far cry from his youngun days. He's usually my traveling buddy because my canon TLW is neutral-karma :)
@@MidlothianOdyssey I say cartoonishly evil for Tenpenny tower in general because most people will be introduced to it either from Burke who's trying to nuke a town for his boss's amusement or Tenpenny who is literally randomly sniping anyone he sees wandering around as his passive animation and says as much in dialogue. They're the worst of the bunch, but the rest are portrayed as either petty thugs like Gustavo (forgot his name, but he's portrayed as a petty thug as far as I remember, though it has been quite a long time, so maybe I'm misremembering), neutral at best or vain like the various shopkeeps and nameless residents where they're not really actively evil but are disconnected and apathetic to the outside world. The only real unequivocally good character I remember is Herbert, but even he could get lumped in with everyone else in the tower because they support or don't actively rebel/talk back against Tenpenny-passive support for Tenpenny, or tolerance, but still possibly viewed as an accomplice to him for their inaction. All that said, this could just be things being distorted over time since it's been a very, very long time since i last played and saw all the dialogue for that area
Personally I like the Boulder City thing since I do prefer times where you can talk everyone down, even if it's very difficult. It depends on the player/Courier's personality, but I could easily see them going about arranging the diplomatic route so they can get the info they want from Jessup before then either turning them over to the NCR to be arrested or just flat out shooting them since he was part of the gang that tried killing you at the start of the game. The great khans in general are an odd faction to get along with since they are glorified raiders and it feels like you're able to be neutral/loosely allied with them because you're an independent agent rather than part of the NCR or other large factions. It doesn't help that the Great Khans are doing stuff like actively making and running drugs for other factions like the fiends, so they feel pretty close to neutral evil at best to me. I say this despite always trying to be on decent terms with them in most playthroughs so I can get access to their armorer who has such a great stockpile of ammo and weapons for sale.
Fawkes/Charon 'holding the line'- against what? To get to the purifier you have to clear out everything in your way, there are no hostiles left outside courtesy of Liberty Prime and the BoS, and the inside has already been cleared out by you, Lyons, and anyone else that goes with you. The whole situation is just very awkward and forced because they want to shoehorn in the senseless martyrdom ending and treat you like you're a bad person for not going along with it. This is a long standing gripe I've had about FO3 though, so not worth going more into it
I don't think there's any ending to the 101 rescue quest that would actually have you immediately stay there and settle down since you still have to resolve everything with the enclave and project purity at that point, so Amata going 'go save the wasteland' or something similar while she stabilizes things in the vault but that you're welcome back after she gets things calm again and after you've finished your own business outside the vault, or even just stopping by from time to time. The ending ruins it for me though- I can see Amata asking you to stay away for a while so she can try to get a handle on things and settle things in the vault so things can stabilize after the repeated crises that have happened in it because of her father and other situations, but the 'Thanks, now f*ck off forever' thing she ends with even if you solve everything peacefully sours the entire thing, like she's just as much of an ungrateful prat as everyone else in the vault and it might be better off just locking everyone in there and never letting them out, or sabotaging the vault and forcing everyone to leave and risk the wasteland like you were forced to.
Amata was a character I liked at the start of the game since she was your friend and did help you out, but what they have her do at the end of the vault 101 rescue quest just makes her seem like an ungrateful jerk who is willing to backstab their lifelong friend who has once again bailed her out of a catastrophe
The Tenpenny residents are apathetic to the outside world. They are civilians at the end of the day trying to survive like anyone else, just they have the good fortune of taking up residence in the safest place in the entire wasteland. Even in real life, tenants are not automatically held to account for whatever shady or outright criminal activity their landlord is involved in.
"Fawkes/Charon 'holding the line'- against what? To get to the purifier you have to clear out everything in your way, there are no hostiles left outside courtesy of Liberty Prime and the BoS, and the inside has already been cleared out by you, Lyons, and anyone else that goes with you. The whole situation is just very awkward and forced because they want to shoehorn in the senseless martyrdom ending and treat you like you're a bad person for not going along with it. This is a long standing gripe I've had about FO3 though, so not worth going more into it"
There is still the lower level, where we go to put the fuses along with the room where we were born. Have a couple of Enclave goons come from there; your companion & Sarah stays back to deal with them while you face Autumn by yourself(would also make that showdown tougher too), when Autumn and his two bodyguards are dead, Sarah enters the rotunda. When asking for your companion, she says they were injured and are on the way back to the Citadel for medical treatment.
Now the player's choice really matters. EIther they die or Sarah dies. Maybe not the perfect solution, but it'd be at least viable enough to get around the problem. Actually, that just made me realize that I have never once tried to enter the lower area during the finale of the vanilla game. I'm gonna have to try that sometime!
Definitely agree, the Great Khans are evil; I'd say up until the Bitter Springs Massacre (a tragedy they directly manufactured) they were bordering on Chaotic Evil, as most raiders are; couple that with Papa Khan willing to join the Legion and it makes the notion of them turning a new leaf seem infeasible at first, that is until you get to know them a little better. Shame their content had to be cut so hard, there's a lot more going on with those guys than what we ended up with. For all of the flaws the NCR comes with, the Mojave would be way worse without them.
Trouble on the Homefront is basically one giant nod to Fallout 1, right down to the conclusion. Although in Fallout 1's case, the Overseer locking TVD out after they saved the entire wasteland from the clutches of Richard Grey is a serious "wtf" moment. My diplomatic, borderline pacifist, Vault-Dweller was real tempted to shoot him, lol. I didn't, of course, but I remember my character being pretty mad. The residents of Vault 13 come to revere TVD and are getting ideas about leaving the vault or opening it up to the outside world, whereas the Overseer wants to keep them inside and some of his fears are valid. He even admits that he wouldn't be able to function outside himself; I'm convinced that much of the dialogue for Vault 101 was derived from Vault 13 because both Overseers have similar motives, though Almodovar conveys his methods in a more unhinged manner. Next time you play Fallout 3 and do the quest, you should interact with the people after Amata sends you on your way; the rebels have a high opinion of you, naturally, but everyone else still hates you. I do like that Bethesda didn't just cut & paste from Vault 13 while still giving it homage. Vault 101 always gave me the creeps, gave me Jonestown vibes even back when I picked up the game for the very first time.
That said, I get where you're coming from. Our takes on that quest are pretty different and that, in my opinion, is the mark of a quest that's pretty well done. And, y'know, different opinions are totally cool :)
Your thoughts on 101's peaceful route, as well as Tenpenny, are reminding me of why I like some of the skill checks in Dead Money (my favorite FNV DLC) so much. Passing that Barter check making Dean automatically hostile to the Courier is such a beautiful chef's kiss between making the player cautious of skill checks because they don't always result in the best outcome. Heck, our pal Georgie Boi has less of a reward to offer if we pass his Barter check; we get the exp for passing the check, but less caps (400, down from 600.)
@@MidlothianOdyssey The proposed scenario of the game taking away your companion and having them injured off screen just to force the 'you/lyons *must* die to do this thing' at the end would still rub me the wrong way. I loathe when games do stuff like that, especially in cutscenes where they just have characters injured/killed while your character does nothing for...some reason.
It's been ages since I beat FO3, but if I had to guess I would assume that the basement area is just locked off during the final quest. Bethesda has a tendency to do that to lock off areas, just make the doors not work and then access is cut off. Still, could be interesting to see if the basement area is locked off or not during the final quest.
It is a shame so much stuff got cut from the game because of time constraints, seeing more with the great khans and the other major factions would have been interesting
101 overseer taking influence from 13 overseer-I think this was confirmed, and the 13 overseer kicking out the vault dweller was a colossal mistake on his part since he ended up causing the very thing he didn't want to happen. 101 being cultlike is an interesting take and I can see it, though it probably is worst off after the chaos where the people are being manipulated by the overseer and he's using force to try to keep people in line.
I do remember the rebels of 101 liking you since they like your character helping them and want to get out and explore/at least have contact with the outside world again, something that....I think was known at that point? The older people in the vault would definitely know that the vault was not sealed off for 200 years and people came in and left before, even if the young people didn't know about it. Anyways, i do also remember the faction that's siding with the overseer latching onto hating you because they blame James, and by proxy you, for the stuff that happened even if they logically would know you had nothing to do with it
George-doesn't he always have the 407 caps or something unless you make the wager and give him some money? Either way he's a punk who's profiting off of sending people to their deaths from the Boomer's bombardments, so seeing him always suffer and 'unfortunate accident' during your runs so you can get extra caps during the routes is cathartic
Dean-he's another one that gets dealt with unless I'm actively trying to go for all challenges or something and need to keep him alive for the challenge that has you keep all companions alive in Dead Money. The more you learn about Dean the worse he gets and it's really tragic what Sinclair and Keyes suffered because of Dean screwing them all over so many times and that Dean is the root cause behind everything going wrong with the Sierre Madre and what it's turned into, though him getting some karma and being trapped by Elijah is amusing since prior to that Dean could have left at any time, but if I remember right I think Dean has killed a number of other people who Elijah trapped to see if he could figure out a way to defuse his bomb collar and escape, so working together with him only works if you soothe his fragile ego and let him claim all the credit for everything that you do and he was planning on backstabbing and killing you too to try and continue his attempts to remove his bomb collar
Punishing the player for passing a skill check/challenge is...well, I'll agree to disagree there, especially for the ones that aren't the obvious bad ones like where it's greed and demanding more payment for doing a job for someone that is desperate
Welp, this thread has given me a friendly (and fun) reminder that I really need to make a Discord server! Definitely don't mind the algorithm boost that comes from our convo, but yeah. Definitely need to get on that :P
Dean's definitely a bastard and I love him for it. I really enjoy bad guys who are well written because it makes them so much more vile that you love to hate them all the more. I don't like him as a person, but as a well-written & executed character? Hell yeah. It did take me a couple of runs of Dead Money before I understood why he was so aggro on me. Wasn't until I played an absolute meathead of a character who was not only low on Charisma & Intelligence, but they also didn't invest in any skills that didn't involve either swinging that Super Sledge or punching things hard. I was like O_O that is so genius!
Queue FNV as Dean Domino challenge sometime in the future!
Hell yeah