Virgin Pilot GETS ANGRY DURING TAXI | "That is incredibly poor"
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
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“Go on gents” the most British reply ever
Kind of like "bless your heart". lol
Wasn't it "grow up gents?"
I love the British.
No the red coats are coming lol not worried I’ll be waiting gents 💀🔫😎
@@andrewbarker8027 it was indeed.
After pulling up FAA & CAA guidance to this matter it seems the TOW driver is at fault. The SWA aircraft is not under its own power and guidance says that vehicles should yield to taxiing aircraft. The virgin pilot if he is to file a report would be against the SWA Ground team NOT the pilots of the SWA aircraft.
The Ramp Agents aren't in communication with the aircraft.
@@mistahshade
Yes they are, either plugged in or using hand signals, give it a rest
I'm a pushback driver at an airport where ramp is uncontrolled so I use situational awareness to keep track of other aircraft that are passing and act accordingly. Whenever it looks like there may be a conflict I advise the cockpit to make a courtesy call for the sake of everyone's situational awareness. I feel that the southwest pushback driver and wingwalkers should have yielded but I wasn't there so I don't know the full story (reduced visibility?, high workload?, etc)
Virgin was likely around the corner of the terminal so the tug driver probably couldn’t see them when they began the push. Then comes around the Virgin. It’s really no one’s fault.
@@mistahshade You have no idea what you're talking about lmao
Unbelievably rich for a southwest pilot to say "patience is a virtue"
Why do you say that out of curiosity lol
@@oramaj8392 I think it’s because they taxi really fast.
How do you know it was southwest?
@@trechan maybe because the plane was in SW colors??
@@derrickstorm6976 yeah but you have no idea if it was a southwest pilot that said it. Ground is an open frequency with plenty of other pilots from other carriers listening
What a bizarre way to run a large international airport.
their motto isn't "Keep it Weird" for nothing!
AUS isn't a large international airport though.
Austin is only a class charlie.
It would have been tempting to key up with the 'ol " Ain't from around here, are ye?"
In no way does KAUS qualify as "large"
Even if the ramp is uncontrolled, it seems like common courtesy to let the taxing aircraft pass before pushing. Agree with the Virgin aircraft here.
Both airline and the ground handler want to enforce their "on time departure" and clearly didn't respect any others.
@@rapgomes "Freedom" to some people seems to mean "fuck you guys I got mine". Courtesy be damned.
@@rapgomes the airliner wasn't under its own power. Entirely on the ground crew
I would agree with virgin if he wasn't such a whiner. You don't need to clutter up comms with insults and threats to report, something he was doing long before any of the other pilots ribbed on him
@@wood42shed ..pretty sure the guy quipping freedom was saying it as a joke and not meaning it, especially because the Virgin pilot was British.
At the end of the day this is on the tug drivers. They're pushing the SW aircraft and can see - the pilots can't.
I am surprised to learn that an airport built for heavy jetliners would have any “uncontrolled” areas.
All aprons are 'non-movement areas'. Ground does not control movements in a non-movement area. Once you cross the line in to a movement area, then ground directs aircraft movements. Taxiing, towing, and service vehicles in a non-movement area are self-directed or marshaled by personnel.
@@llaughridge How do such uncontrolled areas properly function without formal direction from the tower?
I came here to say this.
@@llaughridge That may be true, but the taxiways are still controlled. The vast majority of commercial airports in the US require clearance to push because the aircraft is entering the AOA.
Literally two gates for heavy aircraft it isn’t that surprising
AUS was my home ramp for many years, as a note the cargo ramp is to the north and separate from the passenger ramp. It looks like nighttime and one guy was handling both Gnd and Twr frequencies, and the passenger apron was uncontrolled. The SWA pushback crew effed up, specifically the rear marshaller who should have gone X with his wands as soon as he saw the taxi lights of the heavy jet. I don’t know if this raises to the level of filing a Safety report or ASAP, but the Virgin crew is in complete liberty of doing so.
Same airport that cleared a Fed Ex plane to land and cleared an SWA onto the active at the same time a few weeks ago. It sounded like the same tower controller.
"Patience is a virtue" said towards the already taxiing aircraft who had to stop for an aircraft that couldn't wait a minute and just had to push their way in front.
shut up
In their defense, they're not controlling the pushback, the tow driver is.
@@ChantalsShoulderFly I don't think any aircraft tug driver in the World is supposed to push or pull an aircraft of that size without approval from the flight deck, even if it is just a groundie who is there to be on the brakes.
I guess for a country that elected Humpty Trumpty for President, it is not surprising that some of their pilots do not see the irony of that statement in this situation.
@@hitchmille Do i really need to explain to you how its irrelevant whether they had approval or not? Its also extremely ironic that you're some far left weirdo who is so obsessed with Trump that you bring him into a conversation about air traffic, without understanding that ATC approval doesn't mean shit if drivers & ground guides aren't paying attention to their surroundings.
Sounds like they might need a ramp controller.
only when Virgin is on the ramp 😁
@@nw6gmp - Correction: When Southwest is operating.
this is not europe or asia: just because someone gets upset does not mean they need to hire a bunch of staff that will end up doing nothing thruout the day just to avoid upsetting a foreigner once a day
@@brianlacroix822 Go on gent 😃
@@einokalonen1313 MOM!
Hey, if you gotta get stuck behind someone, then make it Southwest. Rumor has it that they consider a safe taxi speed to be the airspeed indicator being alive 🤣
Love the comment
They absolutely CRUISE on the taxiways at my airport. Sometimes you half expect a gear to come off the ground when they're making a turn from one to another.
Go for push back...Check
Air speed alive....Roger
Left on Charlie, hold short RR 22.....Unable
there's a road where i work where SW is en route to their home airport. watching them drop to pattern altitude while turning in line is some of if not the best aviating i've seen. "fly it like you stole it"
I’ve been on SW flights multiple times where I thought we were taking off only for us to turn onto another taxiway
This one is on the Southwest ground crew, and is a common problem with Southwest. The culture of hurry hurry hurry results in a lot of less than good behavior. A friend of mine had to reject a takeoff due to a Southwest runway incursion. Executed a high energy RTO due to that incursion. Better than dying though.
The hurry culture gets people killed.
Southwest is like the people I see driving around town. They see you coming and watch you. Wait right till you are on top of them and pull out from a side street or what ever right in front of you then then drive half of the speed limit.
You must not fly SWA that often. I agreed with you until you hit the "half speed" comment. SWA will run and gun the whole way into the sky. I have been on planes where the passengers were being swayed left/right by G forces...during taxi. Then one last turn - no slowing down - before they gun it hard into the sky.
Keep in mind that SWA recruited heavily from military pilots, and it all makes sense.
@@FamilyManMoving dont get me started on the landing i had at cleveland years ago with SW i through i was dead i hit the runaway i fucking swear nose first it was so hard and ridiculous
@@NickyD About ten years ago, laded hard enough that the lead flight attendant got on the overhead and said, "...And with that direct impact, Southwest would like to welcome you to..."
The pilot chimed in after that and said, "Sorry. That one is on me."
Southwest does have personality, though not as much as they used to. I think passengers are too sensitive for most jokes these days. Thank social media for our humorless neighbors.
@FamilyManMoving what about Ryan Air
Haha I'm team SWA over team BA but this is a great analogy. Or the types of people in cities with no left turning lane who turn on the turn signal right when the light turns green instead of doing it sooner so you can get in the right lane LOL
If you have been around awhile you’ll know this is pretty typical of Southwest. I could see them trying to take advantage of an uncontrolled ramp to jump in front of a slower moving wide body and avoid a takeoff delay.
I second that observation. They also taxi too fast. They practically come up on two wheels exiting the runway. Then throttle up down the taxiway and never throttle back down.
this guy knows whats going on. you can tell it's part of the swa culture by the way all the other company pilots chimed in on freq. however as all sane aviators should know, it simply isn't safe (let alone courteous) to push back just in front of an approaching jumbo
That's why I fly southwest. They get you there faster
@@pummer and how do you know what company those other pilots work for??
@@rael5469 SWA goes hard yeah it's sick
For a pilot that was "angry" he sounded pretty cordial to me.
Can confirm he was livid. Source: Am British.
This is probably “livid” for a British person :P !
When a Brit speaks like that you know you're in trouble
@@CyberSystemOverload I can guarantee first hand that most of us Brits don't speak in with a typical airline pilot's voice.
@@tomvalentine4928 definitely would have sounded different on the CVR recording😂
Source: I’m Scottish
If they told me I was watching a VATSIM beginner event, I would also have believed it 😅
I think It would have ended in a ban actually...
on vatsim the southwest would have apologized and said: "Sorry mate, you can taxi through me" :D
VATSIM is a shitty kindergarten platform. Totally DARK!!!!
Something similar did happen to me on VATSIM. Turkish air fool pushed back from an adjacent gate, and stood idle on the ramp for 10 minutes as I was waiting for him to taxi to start my push...As soon as I announced my pushback he decided to start his taxi so I had to abort...infuriating. His compatriot gang of Turkish air morons then stood ON the SINGLE runway for 5 minutes at a time, sequencing themselves by standing idle on the runway despite traffic on final...I was LIVID.
@@Cruz474 That is annoying indeed. Try visit a busy TNCM in VATSIM without ATC 🤣
The Virgin pilots were facing a culture shock. In the UK, right of way is strictly followed, be it in an airport or out on the road. The courtesy and discipline that they're accustomed to is simply missing from this video.
True fact
@@sncy5303 Who,, exactly is "eberybody"? That's not even an English word...
US-style box junctions are pretty polite places. On the West Coast anyway. True that Brits *hate* queue-jumpers, but every country's got its own priority rules. Your freedumb ends when you scratch my shiny aeroplane
Um have you ever driven in London?? There is no such thing as courtesy or discipline.
@@sncy5303 Don't you mean if they could meet somewhere in the middle, BOTH of them would be perfect countries???
As a Brit I have to say I laughed at "The red coats are comin'"
Excellent shithousery
I'm offended by it. I should like within myself deeper and ask why.
The Poms, the Limeys
Made me chuckle too
Not very original. It seems like it’s their favourite phrase on these videos.
i feel like that has to be on the tug crew.
In F1 that would be classed as an unsafe release...
@@hughjardon5101 $5k fine and a 10s penalty
Tug crew, who would be employed by SW Airlines or their contractor right, and where SWA potentially applies inappropriate schedule related pressure to their staff. So they should take the high level rap, and they can sort out how they change their effective corporate actions internally. But not get to pass the buck to junior staff directly, that's a cop-out and liable to lead to this continuing.
It is, they are supposed to watch for right-of-way aircraft, which a taxiing aircraft would be.
That's what we call a "tactical pushback"
That's a redneck kind of pushback.
@@bobby1970 ALL REDNECK🤣🤣
Or just reckless stupidity.
That is what we call obnoxious
Standard procedure for Southwest to cut off another airline, don’t feel bad Virgin, it’s not personal.
I've watched Southwest push back two aircraft on side by side gates at the same time, then they race each other to see who gets out of the alley first.
Think there's a difference between patience and someone barging their way out.
@@yuridekhed1935I believe that’s what he meant. The SWA barged their way out.
@@roler95So what? Life is too short. Get over it. To get in the radio and start talking about making reports and how awful it was is extremely unprofessional.
I bet SW wanted to get out in front of the Virgin "Heavy" so that they wouldn't have to wait the additional time/clearance due to the excessive wake turbulence.
@@EyeForKnowledge. No. It's not. It's a safety issue. They had the right of way and the ground crew just pushed the other plane into their way, but only where their wing would be. That could have been easily misjudged and that is exactly how wings get clipped and those are full of fuel, which burns.
Well well well... If it isn't the tower controller who just had the near mid air with Southwest and Fedex.
Yep, its actually terrifying we have people like that in ATC.
Note to self. Don't fly into Austin til this dude gets his ratings pulled
I recognized his voice right away.
DEI
You're like that Cargo pilot who has ADHD and can't pay attention to what he controller said. For the third time now: ramp is uncontrolled.
“Go on Gents” first class response
I'm not an aviator and don't know the rules of aviation, but if we think of it like regular road traffic, its pretty straightforward that you shouldn't pull into the path of a vehicle on the 'main' road.
I know in this case the pilots of the SW literally have no control over the reversing of the plane, so it seems strange for the ground crew to start pushing back into the path of a moving plane. Seems needlessly adding risk when waiting maybe 30 seconds more it would've all run just as quick
They just gauge how quick the Virgin can stop, I guess. Even though it's far bigger. It's like playing chicken with a train.
I'd complain to the airport that it could use some control on this ramp because of things like this. Just because it "is" uncontrolled doesn't mean at all that it "must stay" uncontrolled.
still, virgin pilot sounded like an idiot.waiting 1-2 min wouldnt kill him…he made sure to tell everyone twice he will file
@@johny5400 my thoughts exactly. Sure, Southwest was in the wrong but the Virgin pilot made this a bigger deal that it had to be and I’m glad he was ridiculed for it.
@@johny5400 what SW was plain dangerous
It's not really a case of if the virgin can stop- we're trained to be ready with the brakes at all times on the ground. It's more a case of bad practise- this is an industry where if there is a tiny mitigating factor you can do to improve safety, you all do it, all the time.
Nothing instills confidence in the flying public like pilots acting like a bunch of teenagers in a locker room.
🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂
Yep scary
Pilots don’t apologize for having a sense of humor
@@ME10920 this is scary? This aint shit lamo
The virgin pilot was butthurt and they gave it back to him. His report will get round filed, if he even makes one.
So basically southwest ground crews are just as polite as there customer service.
lol
Not to sound rude but, if you've never been on a busy commercial ramp, you can't comment here. A 737-800 is around 120' long and knowing southwest, the plane was buried in ten other planes. The ground crew cannot see other planes around the aircraft. Some airlines will sometimes use a backer who stands down on the ramp, but not always, especially on airports with light traffic (as Austin used to be), or where is controlled. So unless the plane is right behind you, they can't see it. Clearly the Virgin was far enough down he had time to stop, so he was probably close to a quarter of a mile away, far enough back to not be an issue.
@@jhmcd2 never mind that the ground crew is trained to push when it's safe, not when it's considerate, especially when they have no way of knowing where that plane is going if they can even see it. As far as Southwest costumer service goes, having worked directly for or via codeshare for five different US carriers, I have to say the above person has no clue.
@@jhmcd2 you don't have a clue about how a ramp works....
@@jhmcd2 Got to be a 10 second penalty for unsafe release? lol
I have seen SWA push from a uncontrolled ramp right past the non movement line deeply encroaching a active taxiway at SLC. On more than one occasion. Ground asked us why we stopped. If we had continued, we would have torn their rudder off. Multiple safety reports filed. 6 months later, there was a collision between SWA and a heavy taxiing on the active taxiway.
Sounds like an issue with the ramp crew pushing too deep, not the pilots fault
A few years ago, a heavy FedEx struck the tail of a Southwest at KSLC. The Southwest was parked at the gate. Perhaps that's the incident you refer to.
What an utterly bizarre way to run an airport.
It’s not uncommon. MDW works the same way
Notice how the total amount of US airport taxes for a domestic flight are like $5? It works fine don't Europe-ify the USA please we like our prosperity.
if it works it works i guess 😂
Ya it’s not uncommon, iv worked at a few without ramp control, it almost always works as well as the ones I’ve worked at with controlled ramps
The Virgin guy just being a bitch because at a European airport ground always controls the pushes of aircraft. It’s not like they did anything unsafe sure they could have waited. He just wanted to go first and the controller even said he could side step and he was probably a by the book guy who thinks ”I have to follow the taxi lines”I hope they teach this stick up the ass European a lesson when his report gets the runaround.
The Virgin plane had the right of way. Southwest should have waited. Southwest was clearly in the wrong and its pilots were still making fun of the Virgin's pilots. That is low.
Tf? SW plane didn't do shit. They didn't even control their plane; they werr being taxid. Those taxiing always have right of way due to them not having control over their own aircraft. Derp.
@@aa1bb2cc3dd4 He isnt blaming the pilots.. learn to read... Hes blaming SOUTHWEST... The ground crew, etc... he only called the pilots out on being snarky and rude to the Virgin pilots... maybe learn to read before you come act like you know what your doing.
@@aa1bb2cc3dd4 Typical dumb Yank attitude. Can't spell either.
There isn't any right of way on the ground for pilots, only in the air. The only exception is the runway, but on the ramp it's no mans land unless there's ramp control, which KAUS doesn't have.
Is this the same controller that was involved in the FedEx/Southwest near miss incident?
It sounds like it
“Red coats are coming” I genuinely cannot believe this is an international airport, sounds like something said down the bar. Really strange to have an uncontrolled ramp area
Many many ramp areas in the US are uncontrolled. The SWA ground crew appears to be the ones at fault here, because ground crews at uncontrolled ramps are responsible for coordinating pushes to optimize the flow of traffic, and make sure their pushbacks don't cause conflicts like this. The Virgin pilot is justified in being frustrated, but not at the SWA pilots or ATC; neither one is responsible for this situation. The comments were unnecessary but the Virgin pilots did not really know what was going on in the first place.
Not used to a bit of freedom are you?
@@Cruz474 i was in the USA and got screamed at by a cop because I walked across a road. That’s real freedom.
@@Cruz474 Aviation isn’t about freedom, it’s about safety. This is a poor and dangerous way to run an airport. Would you rather your pilots got you to your destination the safest or free-est way to your destination. If you’d go for the latter, you’re an idiot.
The sad little Southwest pilots trundling along on their domestic routes. Bet they felt cool after that one. Regardless, the active taxi had the right of way and ATC gave them clearance. The SWA push team were in the wrong, the SWA pilots were just dicks about it unnecessarily.
Surely the point here is the Virgin pilot isn’t blaming anyone. They’re just filing an Air Safety Report because the Virgin pilot had safety concerns. It’s not about apportioning blame but improving safety.
He’s saying “hey, didn’t like that, it scared me.” He’s filing the report in the hope that it is investigated and a system be put in place / mitigations implemented to avoid a repeat. This time the SWA plane didn’t reverse into the Virgin plane but that might not be true next time. It’s about being a professional and saying “didn’t like that, you may want to review the system”.
The level of maturity shown by the quips from edgelord US pilots makes me embarrassed to call them countrymen.
It's the same level of dunderheaded anti-OSHA sentiments that lead to complacency, sloppiness, then accidents in any industry.
The general public should be appalled that anyone in charge of an airliner acts that as if their ego-driven meme-ing is a justified behavior, instead of being a chidlish lack of professionalism.
“Didn’t like that, review the system” is a staple of Austin and we’ll make sure it remains.
While we’re at it, the Brits obviously expected some latitude cause they’re big and British. We don’t do that here anymore.
@@Williemaxtx Correct...
What you are famous for the world over is Big Heads and Bigger Mouths.
Not sure where the Tiny Brains fit into the equation.
@@Williemaxtx You dont do what anymore Willie?
The atc says he has no control over who pushes but he can see there is going to be a issue and warn the pilots
... which he did.
@@FlyNAA The opposite is true 1:14
ATC can't see everywhere.
doesn't sound like the interests of safety will exceed the racist-smugness poisoning the atc is suffering from.
@@TreSpiller Then they also should not tell, it is safe to pass a pushed back plane, when it is not.
You can always count on SWA to cut you off. Being in a hurry is what they do best.
I was in a departing SW flight (From Fresno, IIRC) that got pushed back into another SW flight because of exactly this sort of miscommunication. No-one noticed until the crunch.
It's not "ha ha freedom" when you cause two fully loaded planes to collide.
freedom means sometimes actors will make poor judgment calls but that doesn't mean having Red Coats come in and taking away freedom and having a controlled ramp for a tiny dog shit airport like Austin thus driving up airfares that's what they meant by "ha ha freedom".
I'm with the Virgin Atlantic pilot on this one.
Hey... local rules, when in rome!
I'm with a virgin in the Atlantic.
@@txaggievet Yup local rules. Next time find a Southwest plane about to miss their slot, park behind it to do some checks.
@@txaggievet Here the problem is there are no rules, it’s uncontrolled. There are better ways to manage safety on a ramp.
@@milesaharrison Im not disagreeing.. I am just saying, this is the airports rules, get them to change the rules, but dont get mad at ATC
How the heck does a busy airport like AUS have an uncontrolled ramp?
Yeah that's what I don't get either
I would not consider Austin a busy airport. They are looking to build a new terminal to expand so will be interesting when construction starts if this is how people react.
what on earth makes you think it's busy lul
BNA in Nashville is also uncontrolled, it's kind of insane with the amount of traffic they handle (~19 million vs Austin's ~13 million). They are making it controlled here soon though.
What's really a shocker are Class C airports that default to Class E airports at a designated time, when the towered ops end and the airspace reverts to untowered ops. It is not uncontrolled, there are still rules and regulations in place that must be followed, it is just untowered, but most people use the word "uncontrolled." But essentially you could have a large airliner on final with a couple hundred people on board about to land while some guy in a Cessna 172 is short of the runway wanting to takeoff and these two will need to sort it out if the tower has ended operations for the day. And if that isn't enough, you don't even need to have a radio. But while this may seem wreckless and chaotic, it has worked just fine for decades and goes on all the time every day across the US. Most of the time, airports are owned by the city and cities are notoriously cheap, just look at the roads.
It is bizarre how impolite and reckless behaviour is considered to be "freedom" while the ones disadvantaged by that reckless behaviour are expected to shut up about it.
Welcome to Texas.
Go on
American concept of freedom is being so free you have no healthcare, can eat yourself into diabetes, and get shot by your own gun.
Lol “reckless” 😂
“We’ll file”. Because who doesn’t want to do more paperwork, because someone got butthurt? FFS.
Love how other guys on frequency think the problem is Virgin aren’t used to “freedom”. Weird way to dismiss a total mess of a ground operation
A mess of a ground operation? Where’s the mess?
@@trechan uncontrolled ramp with 737s pushing back into the path of taxiing widebodies is kind of a mess dude
@@charleskennedy1712 sometimes it happens. The Virgin crew stopped the aircraft like they were supposed to. By your standards, every airline is a “mess.” You gotta be more thick skinned and ready for anything if you get in the industry.
@@trechan Holy hell, what a dumb take. This is exactly how accidents happen. They were lucky visibility was good enough for Virgin to stop.
@@trechan Tug Driver, SW Pilots OR have you watched a different version to everyone else.
Same controller that almost crashed the FedEx cargo plane into the southwest passenger plane
That's what I was thinking! You can hear it in the way he says all of his sentences in one breath.
I may be wrong, but this sounds like the same controller who was on duty in the video a couple weeks ago at Austin involving SWA and FedEx.
That’s exactly what I thought too. I posted the same thing before reading your post.
@@10SMaxx-e5j Probably not how he wants to end up on this channel in either case.
Southwest was totally out of line here. This was pure harassment, pure and simple. Strange way to run an international airport. 🤔. Reminds me of a banana Republic🍌 airport. 🤣
ATC sounds half asleep
That ATController sounds exactly like the one that had a runway mishap there in AUS recently, between a FDX aircargo doing a CATIII ILS on 3mi final and the controller releasing a SWA jet in front of FDX. One can bring up the mishap on youtube under near collision Fed ex and southwest at Aus. Listen to the voice of the controller. Sounds exactly the same. Be careful flying into AUS.
"Patience is a virtue" is a very typical quote for people who don't have patience and wedge themselves in front of other people forcing them to wait.
Typical yank actions.
Higher than thou bullshit is normal.
Thats why the world smirks when y’all walk in.
"Hanging on in quiet desparation is the English way..."
If nobody else gets the Pink Floyd reference, shame on them. Brilliant and hilarious comment.
Fact.
@@wsshead Well you kinda spoiled it there.
"English"? wtf are you talking about? Can't you recognise a Scottish accent?
Virgin very professional in their communications but the Southwest pilots just sounded like high school children who got to the lunch line first.
I think the Virgin pilot's frustration was understandable, he's used to controlled aprons and wasn't expecting uncontrolled aprons here (possibly his own fault, he should have known this in preparation for coming into this airport). SWA pilots were at the mercy of the ramp agents who continued pushing them back even though Virgin was coming down the ramp. Up to that point, this just looks like a misunderstanding and unforeseen incident. Where this went unprofessional in my opinion was the unnecessary radio comments from other pilots and from SWA. It's clear from the previous transmissions that the Virgin pilot was caught off guard, antagonizing him further is unprofessional and unproductive.
this
Well, the SWA crew are not completely at the mercy of the ramp agents and tug crew - firstly, nobody is going to start pushing them back until they say they are ready, and secondly, they have BRAKES!
But they think they are too special to wait their turn, which is why they are driving the short bus.
Well put.
@@I_am_Phil_Lee If you as a pilot hit your brakes while the tug is pushing you back, wouldnt that cause a potential major damage to the airplane? Also, unless the FO was looking far to his right during pushback, no one in the cockpit would be aware of VA coming up on them. The tug driver would see this, however.
@@malcolm20091000 Not just the tug driver but the wing walkers and marshaller - who the Virgin Atlantic crew had seen. Is there any point in having such personnel if they fail so completely to do their jobs?
And he doesn't need to hit the brakes when he is moving - just not release them until he has verified with everyone concerned (including the Virgin Atlantic crew via radio if there is any [not unreasonable] doubt about the visual acuity or trustworthiness of his ramp crew) that it is actually safe and reasonable for him to commence his manoeuvre.
What "freedom" is the SWA pilot talking about? Freedom to get plowed in the rear by a widebody or freedom to have your name on various security reports questioning your professionalism?
that should be "LACK of Professionalism"
Hmmm! I know I won't fly Southwest in future, since that's their cavalier attitude and response to an obvious safety issue.
Maybe some roundabouts are needed on the ramp?
Too complicated for americans
That’s the same controller that had the near miss on the runway. He definitely fired by now.
He didn't do anything wrong.
This is how NOT to organise an apron, total chaos every man for himself a fine recipe for accidents.
“The ramp is uncontrolled, so you don’t have to do anything, but we recommend that you do, because control is a good thing, which we don’t practice, so good luck with not crashing into any planes on the ground”. Why so unprofessional, America?
This is not at all airports in the US. Most do have controlled ramps. I do think it’s silly not to but the Virgin pilot was acting like a child.
@@MarissaNye Why. He had every right to say what he said and if he did file a report I hope it was acted on but somehow I doubt that it would have been. It's weird though that in a country where jaywalking is against the law, an aircraft can just push back into the right of way of another and everyone laughs!
The ATC sounds exactly like the guy heard some time back working ATL ground ATC that had an issue with a Delta pilot.
Just shows the level of professionalism pilots maintain outside of us and how immature Americans are
I don't see any freedom in that move. Only disrespect, lack of integrity and professionalism. SMH
I'm a retired 30 year controller at the busiest airport in the world. The Ground Controller was crap. Should have never been certified.
Troll
@@BumAviator wanna bet?
@frankfurter7260 You're wrong. The crappy controller gave him instructions, and TOLD HIM TO TAXI. That's an ATC instruction, the pilot is expected to follow it. Do your ears work? He's taxxiing, you moron. He was doing what ATC instructed.
Sorry amigo, but you don't know shit.
@frankfurter7260 ...OK Pringle. Whatever you say. The key word to air traffic control is 'control', something you obviously don't know. The pilot was following ATC instructions, as he's expected to do. The GC taxiied him into a plane who was being pushed back. Now, I'll grant that they need to fix that operation, but the GC is responsible for ensuring the safety of both a/c. After all, they're both on a movement surface, right? The answer is yes. And since they're both on an airport movement area, which is controlled by, and responsibility has been accepted by, the FAA. It's a movement area. The GC is responsible.
Period.
Just adding to this… I’m a 737 CA for one of the airlines that goes in and out of Austin all the time… and No…I don’t work for Southwest… This incident was, IMO, completely unprofessional and un-called-for… the pilots in that southwest 737, as well as their ground handlers have to be well aware that the Virgin heavy is taxiing right behind them..and yet neither the ground crew or the pilots stopped the pushback… The Virgin pilots were well within their rights to be upset about this..and then the cackling commenced along with the unprofessional remarks from other aircraft.. If my FO said something like “The redcoats are coming” on the radios, he/she would be off my trip immediately.. This is yet another indication of the juvenile and unprofessional nature of American society… and I’m glad that I’m closer to retirement than further away from it…
Sounds like somebody’s not used to a little freedom
@@Akroker1 or perhaps it’s just that you’ve never been a pilot and you’re judging about something that you know nothing about…??
@@Madmax-zc2gk listen, was it intentional? No. It was an accident. The ramp is uncontrolled. Could the ramper have seen the virgin guy and waited? Maybe. We don’t know the exact specifics as to his visibility when pushing back, maybe something was blocking his view. Due to the wide wingspan of the virgin, once the SWA started Pushback, stopping probably wouldn’t have helped much because it was already blocking, so maybe they figured instead of reversing direction which would seem ridiculous, maybe just push efficiently and everyone lives on. The SWA blocked them for maybe 30 seconds. The virgin people were cordial, not sure what they meant by “you weren’t so”. That didn’t make sense to me. But it’s also not something to get bent out of shape for. Dangerous? No. Intentional? No.
I wouldn’t lump the whole of “american society” based on the behavior of those SW pilots and ATC. I agree with Virgin in this case but hey, its these specific people we are looking at here.
Lol the voice of the southwest pilot requesting Taxi right after push was hilarious
I was lmao , love it
Hideously unprofessional conduct from the others on the radio.
lighten up
Lots of people joke around but that was just lazy humor. SWA basically are known for it, haven't quite grasped the concept of banter.
I thought you said hilariously which is why I up-voted but then my dyslexia faded and I saw what you wrote and I un-liked it. But I didn't down vote it fyi.
"The Redcoats are coming!" LMFAO!
Was this the same controller that cleared Fed-Ex to land on top of a Southwest flight?
Could be!
Kind of unbelievable that the tower would just allow anyone to taxi into anyone's way. If regular road traffic worked like that, it would be one big game of chicken
its a uncontrolled ramp - but there actually is a rule about this.
An aircraft under its own power and already in motion gets right of way over an aircraft under tow and not under own power.
@@CapStar362 I didn't know about that, thanks for explaining!
Could you explain what it means to be under tow? I interpreted this video as if both were just driving up to the runway and one cut in front of the other
@@wessltov under tow means the aircraft is moved by an external tug. in addition is not powered by its own engines and under direction of the tug driver.
Since Virgin 787 was operating by its own engines and not being towed by a tug, FAR States that they had absolute right of way.
@@CapStar362 Ah, now I understand it. The rules also make sense to me, given all that apparently goes into starting up and shutting down an airplane.
Since all the other pilots seemed to have consensus and tower wasn't doing anything about it, I thought Virgin 787 was just being a stickler. Turns out it was both poor actions and poor attitudes all 'round
Gave you never been to S.E Asia? That is the name of the game...and you know what...IT WORKS🤣
Same ATC almost caused the FedEx/ Southwest crash
Make a note, never fly to Austin.
I noticed that the comments on frequency were pretty unprofessional. Yes, situations that dictate the safety of others can be important but making comments like "not used to a little freedom" or making other non-atc comment on the radio not only gives pilots less time to transmit on the frequency but I think you can be in trouble for doing so.
Found the Virgin Airlines pilot
There's more latitude on the ground frequency than on Tower - as Kennedy Steve made clear.
@@mattmanbrownbro ...and found he's truly a VIRGIN pilot.
That airport is an accident waiting to happen.
It's like road rage in a Walmart parking lot.
🤣😂🤣
This is in Austin? That’s where I am. lol. Yes, the traffic is bad everywhere in Austin, even the airports, don’t move here. 😂
Whatever the right and wrong of everything else here, having the tower controller join in mocking the Virgin pilot is absolutely unprofessional. That alone would deserve the report. It's a controller's job (among other things) to cool tempers, not to provoke them.
Guys there are No Virgins any more be it Pilots or what ever 🥰
Tower never made a comment.
That was not the tower - the first insult was the Southwest pilot, the 2nd and 3rd where both other pilots - not Tower. As tower pointed out they have no control over the ramp.
I'm on the Virgin pilot's side here. You just dont push back in front of another plane like that
@@neom0nk Today's Ramp Control brought to you by Sky Sport's Martin Brundle.
100%
OFC you 'can' but it should be the last thing you do in a cockpit.
Same here.
It’s not on the Southwest Pilots. They have no control when they push. The file should go on the ground crew
That's not anger, that's disappointment. What a bunch of amateurs, pushing into an active taxiway with a heavy jet approaching.
They didn’t “push into an active taxiway.” Sounds like you’re the only amateur here with zero knowledge of how airline operations work. Ironically, the Virgin pilots with their panties in a bunch are in the same boat with you.
That's Southwest for you
The ramp is uncontrolled, so that’s not an active taxiway
@@intothevoid10 The ramp is not under ground control, perhaps, but the ramp is still under local control. And that doesn't justify pushing into the controlled taxiway that Virgin had been given clearance on.
@@cageordie I really don’t think it’s that deep. Sounds like these two things happened at the same time. That’s why there’s wing walkers ect. Before push is SUCH a busy time while you sign paperwork, talk to ground crew, gate agents, lead FA, ect…. They probably didn’t hear virgins call. And virgin way overreacted here. He’s clearly very unfamiliar and didn’t read the airport company pages
"The red coats are coming" had me rolling.
My thought, why is the ramp uncontrolled?
many airports in Class C airspace have this.
It’s basically like reversing out of parking space without bothering to look, or just reversing and hoping people move for you! If you bump into another car at low speed, it’s annoying but not a massive issue. Reversing an aeroplane into an oncoming bigger aeroplane just seems ridiculous though 🤷🏼♀️ If either of those aircraft get damaged, it could cost the airline thousands in damage, delays, re-booking passengers etc. I’m with the Virgin crew on this one…..
Not in front of another car - more like a 40 ton artic.
Spot on….but the costs would likely run into millions in the event of a collision.
THE best person to resolve this? A kindergarten teacher. She knows how to deal with humans breaking line.
SW and FedEx a couple of weeks ago! ATC and ground needs to get their act together, too complacent!
More like 'slightly miffed', not ANGRY.
I'm not sure but... "unbelievable" might be a fighting word in Britain
Instead of signing an email Best regards, using just Regards, shows extreme disgust in the UK. If a family member passes away that is described as "less than ideal"
How completely unprofessional. I hope he filed and changes were made.
Isn't this the controller that almost had a plane land on top of another about a month ago?
It is called manners and waiting your turn, not ‘freedom’. It would be poetic irony if southwest had suffered a bird strike or burst tyre due to pushing in.
Always lovin’ the animation in these videos.
That’s a weird one. Regardless of if there’s a ramp controller or not, you usually need a pushback clearance in most places in the world. I haven’t operated into that many ports in the US, but I’m surprised this is a thing for such a major airport.
Apparently it's about 'a little freedom' ...at a busy international airport.. the perfect place for loose rules 😂
Austin is not a major airport! Just a city that has grown a lot and is attracting some international flights.
After a clearance you'll generally be told, "push and start your discretion"
you don't need clearance to push and start at most US airports. That's what ramp uncontrolled means. push and start is at your discretion unless the pushback will take you into the movement area (ie, a taxiway).
@@nuniabiz7982 it’s a CAT A diversion airport for the widebody I fly (at my airline) so I can assure you by world standards, it’s a major airport.
WN lifer here. This is no different than driving in a parking lot, and some clown starts backing out in front of you. Just don’t do it. (That’s legit how people drive in Texas…)
That's how people drive everywhere LOL
@@ObtainEmployment not in England.
Apart from the fact that $450 million of aircraft are involved.
VS232 is a new flight at AUS that has been operating since the summer of 2022. This is because of British Airways retirement of the 747-400 not covering all the demand as B191/190, so now Virgin Atlantic jumped in to offer competition with British Airways. For me originality is always better so if I had to choose a flight for AUS-LHR I will for sure choose BA190 just because of its originality.
Don't push until you see the white of their eyes
Haha!
Uncontrolled or not, they prevented SW having a damaged AC.
Something tells me those Virgin pilots are living up to their name.
Really? When they’re earning that much money? You don’t know much about women mate.
Working at AUS ill tell you that ramp is chaotic!
I always fly out of SAT…Austin is a Mickey Mouse operation.
“The Redcoat versus the Redneck.” 😂
I think we know how the first time around went
@@sorenandrews1078 How's that second amendment freedom working out over there? I'd say you guys dodged a bullet in 1783 but by the sounds of things you guys are dodging less of them by the week...
This is all down to different meanings of the same word. In this case: “uncontrolled.”
To the Brit’s: uncontrolled means “control yourself”
To the Yank’s: uncontrolled means “YAHOO!!!”
Is this the same ATC that nearly killed all those folks on the SWA flight?
The way the pilot or FO of the SWA aircraft made a pun out of the Virgin pilot's stated inteition to file a complaint is what I find unprofessional.
And, I truly believe that procedures and protocols are what PREVENT accidents.
Both the airport, with their free for all attitude, and Southwest ground crew, with their bad manners, and both with a risk to safety, behave like they're still in the Wild West............
This is every interaction between class 5 and class 1 drivers
"Guess somebody is not used to a little freedom"
"Haha that's what I thought too"
Utterly disgusting self-centric bully behaviour. The Virgin pilot was the bigger man with actual real patience and bigger brain, he was polite and still didn't reply to the disgusting dumb remarks from southwest.
It's so typical of Americans these days. Self-centered bullies.
I suggest you apply for Canada's MAID service
I hope FAA never implements digital radios because then little quips like those wouldn't happen any more
The reason air band still uses AM radio is because if two pilots key at the same time you can still hear both, albeit garbled. Digital (or FM) doesn’t allow this. It’s a safety feature to keep it as-is.
Hasn’t happened yet with ground or tower but a lot of sectors use CPDLC now. Miami, Washington, Indianapolis, Cleveland and now Chicago has it. They issue everything from frequency hand offs, climbs, descents and route changes. Pilots can even make atc clearances via CPDLC
@@ryanpaaz There’s no reason why digital couldn’t support duplex audio communication. In fact, digital is perfect for this, as data can be compressed and sent in small time slotted packets.
@@hannes7695 And how would you hear two people keyed up at once with the "all-or-nothing" digital, Mr. I'mverysmart ?
Victor, you are the best! 🇪🇸💪🏻
I feel like this didn't need to escalate if the SWA pilot simply said "sorry we had no control of that". The Virgin may have overreacted still after that with talking about filing a report, but the "freedom" and "red coat" comments after that are genuinely pathetic and I think it's kind of sad how people here in the US don't realise how stupid they make us sound.
@@mhoffman30 - No, they were correct, the WN push crew should have yielded.
@@AndreySloan_is_a_cnut but the pilots have no control over that so why try to argue with them on frequency?
@@coflyer2949 - Except they can always tell the push crew to stop, I’ve done so on a number of occasions. They also acknowledged that they saw VA after they’d started the push. Poor, unprofessional behavior primarily on the part of the WN push crew, secondarily by the WN crew when they apparently saw but ignored the conflict (based on their own words).
That said, from what I infer VA probably could have transitioned from taxi lane C1 to C2 (I think this is what ground was trying to communicate), but just doing that of their own volition isn’t something they would be used to coming from Europe where pretty much everything is closely controlled. I can understand their frustration when trying to operate “by the book” and it seems the cowboys are doing whatever they want. They probably could have just let it go at stating they’d report it.
If you believe stupidity is limited to America, I suggest you get out more.