015 Connecting your DAC #1: the interfaces
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- Опубликовано: 19 авг 2015
- D/a-converters might have a variety of inputs. Most common are SPDIF and USB, but some come with AES/EBU or I²S. This video gives oversight on the interfaces used and their properties.
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Hans, thank you very much for a great post! It is a delight to listen to your posts!
This gentleman is indispensable.
🙏🏻
Thank You for many things You have taught me, and others have also. With that said, I had never thought of the better option at time being an optical connection; to avoid a ground issue.
I am working out the "bugs" (and when I say that, I only had a ground loop issue for a moment because I saw what caused it)of a rather modest system. I have about reached what I can afford to get by the "house comity"; don't get me wrong she likes the way things are seen and heard. I will only say that I Thank You, for Your logical explanation of how a person can get the most for a dollar... Thanks again, James
definitely you are the pinnacle of audio equipment and knowledge.
🙏🏻
Best RUclips Audio channel hands down 🙏
Thanks!
Regarding 13:41 (and as it's up to now still not mentioned e.g. in your Chord Hugo 2 review 😉): Windows 10 has since version 1703 (Creators Update) an inbuilt USB Audio Class 2.0 (UAC2) driver which uses WASAPI instead of ASIO. This availability applies for Windows Insider users from end of August 2016 onwards. That came in handy for me as by coincedence I bought at that time Sony MDR-1ADAC headphones with integrated DAC and just needed to plug it into an USB port of my MacBook Pro which is equipped with Mac OS & Windows 10 (Insider build). So therefore I can confirm that.
Hans you deserve a lot more followers. I have learnt so much from your videos. Thank you! 🙏
Thanks! Spread the word😀
Absolutely 🤓
👍👍👍👍👍
Great presentation, thank you for the various connections, explanations. Thumbs up. A thorough presentation on connections for DACs to receiver, for example.
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you.
Excellent explanations. Very enlightening. I managed to clarify some doubts I had about the best connection between the CD player and the DAC. Thank you very much!” 😊
My pleasure
Excelente información. Saludos desde Costa Rica, Hans.
Gracias
super helpful.. this is the only video i could find easily that explains this very well
Glad it was helpful!
Top man, Hans :)
Your knowledge is very impressive and more than a little helpful! Thanks a million!!! Subscribed!!!
Thanks Hans. Great channel.
Welcome!
Thanks for all
Welcome
does anyone here know of a way that I can use my iPhone 7 plus as a source to my questyle cma400i amplifier through either optical or coaxial so that I can do away with the issues commonly asociated with usb connections? thank you for any input.
*metres :)
An excellent video, as always!
thanks very much for your information, I have a audiolab m dac, could I connect it to my power amplifier with a xlr female to rca lead, instead of just rca, I noticed just using rca, I have to turn the gain way up to get good sound.
Yes, if you prefer that you could.
Very good information. Some DVD players now have a decent dac witch make me curious of the HDMI properties do you know the bandwidth limitations of HDMI?
HDMI is designed for high quality video, the audio is stored in between the video and needs to be regrouped and reclocked at the receiving end. So the quality is mainly defined by the devices on the receiving end. The HDMI cable has enormous bandwidth that is why some manufacturers use the cables and connectors for the I²S interface. In this case all bandwidth of the cable - which is far more than needed in this case - is used for audio only.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel You answer my question about HDMI has the most bandwidth than any other link type. So I am assuming using HDMI 2.0 and 2.1 can only help, furthermore so does eARC connection. So why do I need a DAC when I can use an HDMI connection with an audio extractor and why don't component manufacturers implement more HDMI connections?
Dear Hans, in the video you mentioned a 50 Euro mark for a good Toslink cable. Is there any such criterion for a SPDIF coax cable other than watching out for 75 Ohm impedance? Specifically I'm looking for a cable connecting the Chord Mojo and the Digi+ Pro, i.e. BNC to 3.5mm mono.
I wasn’t able to find one. Sorry.
I've been looking into using an SACD player into an external DAC with hops of capturing the DSD data stream *without* conversion to PCM. I see the Denafrips DAC has an I2S input. Have you ever seen this work, and could recommend an inexpensive SACD player? Thanks for the excellent information, Hans.
I²S works fine. I have not reviewed SACD/CD players for ages now so I can't help you there.
this is very informative
🙏🏻
i have a separate DAC for my stereo system. it has a toslink and coax input connection. I would like to connect my computer to the DAC. USB is only out for the computer. is there a good quality usb to coax adapter available or am i taking the wrong approach. thanks
There must be, but I haven't reviewed one for a long time. Perhaps it is time to do so again (as soon as the stack of equipment has been addressed).
I have an M2Tech hiface two. They are supposed to be very good. Too early for me to say as I have not had time to evaluate.
My amp has only RCA inputs.
I want to connect a DAC with my Mac mini to stream music.
The dac that I have to buy, should support more than 384 kHz, or not?
Will I ever have MQA or DSD512, Or I have to change the amp with a newer one with HDMI or USB input?
Hi Hans !
I appreciate all your hard work.
I am new to streaming although i did recently buy a Bluesound Vault 2 for my secondary system fed into a Schiit Gungnir dac.I like it.
For my main system I am looking to purchase a streamer that can be connected into my wonderful PS Audio Direct Stream DAC. What is significantly better than the Bluesound ? Will the sound difference be noticeable?In other words, I would bypass the internal streamer dac and let the PS DSD do itswork.
I would be using my IPAD to select, etc, the music server. Is there such a thing as a streamer transport without the internal dac ? What brand(s) do you recommend ? I also like the ability to rip cds and store them.
Thanks!
Look what I use in my reference Setup 1 (thehbproject.com/en/About)
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
A bit confused on your site. Are you saying the Auralic G 2.1 ?
Hi Hans, I have an emotiva XDA-1 DAC, it has a limit of 96 khz, and I wonde if I can update it with a Gustard U12, I don't find many infotmation about this interface, do you know if it will works with my emotiva, and in that case I should connect my cd player or computer direct to my DAC or to Gustard? thanks u in advance :) great videos by the way
Sorry but I have no experience with these devices so I can’t help you.
These guidelines and overview are great. I would love to hear your take on the pro interconnects AES 50 Dante and AES 67 Ravena using Ethernet 1gbs or faster. These are robust out to 300 meters a support hi-def multichannel. I wish the hi end community would consider adopting.
That's very niche. Perhaps later
thank you for all information !
have you any informations about allen & heath zed r16 and how can i use it with an asus notebook (usb 3) !!???
I can only have an opinion on products I have reviewed and I didn't review the A&H Zed r16. Sorry.
Thank you
Dear Hans, what do you think about the Cambridge DAC DacMagic100 for connect my PC and Integrated Amplifier?
I don't think anything about products I have not reviewed. Sorry.
Thank you Hans. You do not talk about the optical ST standard (although it is not as popular as it was a decade ago when Wadia or ML used it): what can you say about it ?
My high end DAC has optical ST inputs and the quality through these ST inputs is impressive...
Thank ou for your reply,
There are more standards I didn't mention. I only did the popular ones.
Hi Hans,
I am considering buying a HDMI audio extractor that I can use with my raspberry pi. This HDMI extractor has both SPDIF Coax and Toslink out which would then go into my DAC. Would this be better than using the USB of the pi, especially considering that Toslink provides galvanic separation? Thanks.
That depends on the quality of the components used but in general my carts would be on usb
There must be a common interface for all digital sources and dacs which passes all bitrates there are, in all devices like TVs, Blu ray and disc players consoles etc.
It would be nice to see a modernized version of TOSLINK. The advantage of toslink for me is that I don't have to worry about ground noise.
The advantage of a train is that you don't have to drive yourself. I prefer to drive, though. If you nuy proper equipment, ground noise isn't a problem and the conversion from voltage to optical isn't lossless....
Hi Hans, Any technical explanation why I have a difference in sound if I use Toslink from my PC to DAC vs USB? On Toslink the sound have lower volum and the sound is not clear compared with USB.
There can be a difference in sound quality due to the quality of the respective interface implementations (see ruclips.net/video/grzoqEb2KMk/видео.html) but the level should be the same unless one interface is influenced by a digital volume control and the other isn't.
What are you using for a DAC?
See the link under my video’s
Hi Hans, I hope you can help me here. I am setting up an office desktop system. I have a spare BP DAC SE with only digital coaxial input. I want to make use of it for streaming using my iphone/ipad streaming Tidal.
Question is what device can I use to output the Tidal hifi tier digital files from my iphone to the BP coaxial input DAC? I need a lightning to usb cable and then what usb-coaxial converter can i use? Most of this converter works with a pc/laptop that needs software drivers but are there any that can work on a iphone or ipad without software driver?
Is this solution good for audio?
The USB to SPDIF converter I know - by M2Tech - is USB Audio Class 2 compatible and thus works on any computer, tablet and smartphone with the exception of older Windows version. My (educated) guess is that this is true for almost all other converters.
Hans ...thanks very much for your time. I am completely new to high quality audio and I am seeking your help please. I have just ordered a Topping D90 DAC, Topping A90 AMP, HD650 and a Blue Yeti X Mic. I am connecting all of this to an iMac Pro. Please could you advise me on the best cable setup. I really don't know what to buy. Thanks VERY much in advance......
I don’t know the products you mention and I don’t know anything about headphones. Sorry.
I have a USB ground lift on my DAC to prevent noise coming from the PC into my DAC.
And luckily it has its own external power supply.
Zero USB noise issues.
If only. You still have a signal coming in that might almost certainly cary pollution. Sorry.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel True, I typed that while I watched the part about USB power, without realizing the role in noise conduction of data lines.
I found its very hard to decouple equipment from noisy connections.
A friend has a separate ground for his sound system, with a metal rod into the ground.
Shortly after he installed the separate ground, he discovered there's still noise on the ground when it had rained.
What he found out is that when the sand gets wet because of the rain, it becomes slightly conductive, conducting the noise from one ground rod to the other ground rod.
Now that was quite the eye opener haha!
Bluesound Node connected to Marantz AVR. I'm using analog cables. Would an optical cable sound better or is it pretty much the same?
That depends on the quality of your AVR.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Marantz 7011. I'm not using the dac in the AVR. Using the bluesound dac.
QUESTION: I have a cambridge audio dacmagic plus I am trying to connect to my interface. Should I use coax cable to hook up to the interface coax output, and will the DAC slave clock since my interface is slave clocked to my standalone ACD? Also should I continue connecting my studio playback monitors to the interface or should I now connect them to the DAC since it is the last device in the chain?
Please help!
You should use a 75 Ohm RCA cable, usually sold as digital audio cable or video cable. The DAC wil then automatically lock on the clock of your system.
Hans , i have a number of co-axial cables. From £7 Amazon basics ( which actually is the best at the moment) to £20 Fisual pro shielded cable . looking at a Chord C -line cable on Amazon @ £35. Do you recommend any axial cables ? Does you amazon book give any? I use a Hecate LT to Prebox S2 Digital Dac. with Ifi linear power supply.
I would love you to compare the AmazonBasics Digital Audio Coaxial Cable with a more expensive one. I know its objective. I have found it a very good cable amongst the ones I own. i have a few. It is apparently 75 ohm rated.
I don't do cable tests so I can't answer. But I can say cables can make a great difference.
I am dilemma to buy DAC based on AK4493EQ chip with Amanero Combo384 or XMOS XU208 as USB interface to use with a device running on Android 7.1.2. Which one will suit my needs Amanero or XMOS? please suggest.
he individual components are a bad guide to base your choice on. It is more about the quality of the clock crystal, the PCB layout, how the power is distributed and so on. You can only judge the total design and not just two components.
I have Logitech Z5500 speakers, SMSL SU-8 Dac and a macmini. I connect the SU-8 to the mini via USB. The logitech is connected to macmini via optical cable. The thing is, can i connect the logitech Z5500 to the SU-8?
I wouldn’t know, I am not familiar with your equipment.
Great video! I’m still a bit confused would you mind answering my question?
I have my DAC connected via USB Type A to USB Type B cable. I’ve heard it referred to as a “printer” cable but I’ve been using it and the sound is ..fine.
Am I missing out on quality when using this connection or is it okay to do so?
Thank you in advance
What interface (USB, SPDIF, TOSlink and so on) sounds the best depends on how well the manufacturers of the equipment have implemented the interface. SoI can't give you a definitive answer.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thank you nonetheless :)
Would you say using the dacs in my denon 7200wa won’t be as good as a external dac
I have not reviewed it so I can’t say.
YES!, you know it's true!
I think you mentioned WiFi close to the system as potentially problematic. Are modern players with WiFi built in addressing this? I had not considered a WiFi effect and will be moving my WiFi router away from my Audio component system tonight. Putting the short cable from wall to router and long cable across the room to the system (rather than the other way 'round, as it is now). Another minute spent with Hans and another measure improved, as always -- Lan
how about connecting my pc to my av receiver via the firewire ilink ports for multichannel high resolution audio
As far as I know there is no AV receiver offering a FireWire/iLink digital input. There is a limited number stereo DAC's on the market. Little chance this will change since FireWire/iLink is more or less abandoned by the industry and was replaced by Thunderbolt. But again I could only find stereo DAC's, mainly for the professional market.
Hans Beekhuyzen my av receiver yamaha Rx-z9 has an ilink input and it would be nice to utilise if I could anyway thanks for your reply and keep up the good work.
there were a number of high and av receivers using ilink in the mid 2000s cheers
How do you compare async USB where dac requests computer for data (e.g Cambridgeaudio dacs) to i2s?
that depends to a very large degree on the implementation. My ultimate result is with USB but I can imagine there will be an equally well implemented I²S somewhere.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel and whether this USB is connected to cheap raspberry pi or a Mac mini, it will sound same?
No. I will explain this in a video soon
If i have a dac where i can choose if it should use internal clock or use the clock from the sender.
what would you do?
i have a Allo usbridge(volumio) with (supra)usb to a smsl vmv d1(dac preamp) to a Nord One NC500DM Stereo connected with (supra)XLR running kimbercables on some jamo c809.
In your case it won't improve the clock and there is no clock output on the USBridge. If you would buy a quality clock generator (simple ones are around € 800), that might give an audible improvement.
The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel I will look into that. At this point ive found this on my current dac. “D1's clock system consists of 3 ultra-low phase noise active crystal oscillator and CPLD logic system! CPLD uses the high-speed CPLD-EPM240T100C5N manufactured by ALTERA, an American chip company under the umbrella of Intel Corporation. Its logic speed reaches 300MHz, together with excellent clock algorithms, the JTTER of the entire clock system is as low as 5ps!” Does this make sens to you? :):) am going on the web to find a generator. Love your work Hanz.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel i think i will try to move to roon on a rock and look into the clock generator. :) thanks for the advice.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel i Know you dont do buying advise. but what technical therms or numbers should i look for in af good masterclock.?
I received a new denafrieps ares ll dac and need to connect with USB cable. Is their a max length? I ask because while shopping for a cable some reviews claim they had cable and hardware damage, cable ends being fried and one claimed it destroyed their computer. Would this be due manufacture defect or too long of a length causing too much resistance?
If you buy from a respectable source there is no risk something like that happening. Maximum length for USB is 5 meters/15 feet but keep it as short as possible to keep the data transfer as stable as possible.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannelThank you very much, will do
Which sounds better coax digital audio or optic??
Thanks alot
Pure technically SPDIF (coax as you call it) has more bandwidth and thus potentially higher sound quality. But TOSlink (optic) offers galvanic separation, in other words it doesn't make a electric connection between the two devices that might cause grounding problems. When there are even the slightest grounding problems, optical will sound better. So there is no easy answer, other than: try both.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks alot
im new to all this. is this set up right ? xbox one hdmi direct to tv. and optical from xbox one into dac converter out to 3.5mm jack to pc speakers. i am interested in neoteck 192khz dac digital optical to analog. and avantree dac converter optical to analog
Hi,
I often experience a problem in my portable DAC, Oppo HA-2 connected to iPhone via USB to play music with Onkyo HF player. What happens is that at least 30min of playback, even standing still, suddenly the sound gets all messed up and becomes slow and out of sync. True that the 8cm cable is highly twisted in portable, but as far as I am aware, the clock signal is in the DAC and I never loose the connection. The problem is solved by physically disconnecting the DAC and connect again, or by turning the DAC off and on. What could be the source the problem?
I do not have an Oppo HA2 and have no experience using DAC's portable/ Sorry.
Have you approached oppo about the problem? they have a good customer service desk - to me it sounds like a firmware problem with the HA -2
I'm thinking of getting the HA 2 myself since it's one of the few DAC/Amps that handshake well with both Android and IOS..
Yes they do, I have approached Oppo on various occasions and they have been helpful, especially the UK office, the US office not so much. However, on this problem they ruled out to be from the device. In part I believe them because it only happens when I use the device with the phone, when I use as USB DAC with my laptop it is always fine. So I am not sure where the issue is coming from. One thing that came up to my mind the resources management of the phone putting the player app on wait for a few ms which might disturb the synchronisation, as these systems love low latency. Any ideas?
No ideas but gave read of problems concerning phone's os interfering with signal transmission to dac amp but more with Android. Have you tried other player apps? Do all file types behave the same?
I have another app for high-res from Korg, the iAudioGate. I tried both apps with multiple files types and it seems it only happens for DSD files, everything else work fine in any app. That's interesting because it seems that it's neither the problem from the app or from the DAC. Puzzling!
Hi Hans, I'm using a MAC with a USB to electrical SPDIF convertor (M2Tech Hiface two) that has its own clock, so it won't be using the inferior clock source of the Mac. I connect this to my DAC that shows the received sample rate. I set the sample rate and bit depth via the "MIDI settings" on the MAC to 24bit/192kHz. So what happens if I play lossless CD content at 16bit/44.1kHz? The DAC still shows 192kHz (or whatever the "MIDI setting" are set to). This must be upsampled right? All my material is lossless FLAC or ALAC at 16/44.1 or 24/96 or 24/192.
Is the software player doing this? (Plex) or the MAC driver layer or the HiFace convertor?
Will this affect quality (assuming my cabling and everything else in the chain can recover the 192kHz ok)?
I have seen software like BitPerfect match the MIDI settings to the sample rate of your source material (which I want to avoid doing manually) for iTunes. Is this a preferred option? Is there a reason to do this?
Having just watched you video I think the answer might be:
Upsampling will not affect the quality of the digital signal going to my DAC, but if it re-clocks the signal to a higher bitrate than the source material, you are just making it harder for the DAC to recover the higher rate signal unnecessarily and therefore more susceptible to poor cabling or lower tolerance components in my system.
Sound about right?
Upsampling in the PC might be of better quality than upsampling in the DAC. Most DAC's today upsample to be able to use a mild analog reconstruction filter. Whether one is better over the other depends on the equipment and software used. I don't know Plex but my guess is the upsampling is done by the Mac OS, which isn't the best. But just compare both options by ear....
A while ago, I mistook a regular RCA cable for a 75ohms coax cable and I used it to connect a CD player with SPDIF to my DAC...
It was *horrible*...
lololololol
😂
How does a stereo signal work on a single digital cable ?
Both channels frequencies are squishily compressed and then uncompressed inside the DAC.
Incorrect. The samples (16 or 24 bits) for left and right are sent alternating, first left then right then left again and so on. Data compression is only applied to lossy formats like mp3 and AAC.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Oh snap!, I knew "squished" would have sound better but decided to change it...
Hello Sir, I have TV with HDMI port. I want to connect my old 3.5mm jack speakers with TV HDMI port. Pl. Advice
I don't know much about tv's but I would look for another connector to use. HDMI on a tv is usually input only, sometimes it has a audio return channel but then you have to buy an external digital/analogue converter. Most tv's have headphone outputs. That would be a better choice I think.
do you need an external dac for better quality i have a decent interface
Whether YOU need an external DAC for better sound quality, I can't say. But using an external DAC - especially if you use a SPDIF (Digi-I/O) board and a good DAC can offer better quality.
This vid speaks of generalities. I need specific instruction how to connect my new Mac mini (no optical output) to my Logitech x-540 speaker system. (My older Mac mini use an inexpensive 5.1 audio gear DAC & toslink cabl).. So far I have not seen such an inexpensive DAC for use with my Mac mini) If I can extract an optical output, it appear my problem would be over. Apple Care tells me HDMI is the way to go, but they stop short telling me how to do this specifically. Anybody out there who has solved this connection problem?
Sorry but I can't do bespoke diagrams.
Hi! Very good, but there are few points I want to clarify. I think you are mixing up the bit used for transmission and the dac word clock. In modern equipment these are unrelated. In your lecture about jitter you explained clock recovery very well, bit missed one important point - clock recovery is only required if you are transmitting a digital stream over an analog channel. The bit clock can also be passed on a separate cable - no clock recovery is necessary in this case. Please note, even though it is called a clock this signal does not have to have precise timing of the pulses, the transmission clock is only a signal that the receiver may hold and evaluate the level. In the old days this used to pose a problem, as devices had very limited buffering abilities, this days it is a non-issue. I'm not aware of a current DAC (last 20 years) which output is in any way influenced by the i2s, or any bit clock recovered from an input.
I agree that poor cabling can cause trouble even to a digital signal - because if we talk about a cable the signal is always analog. But in most cases it is difficult to make a cable so bad that will have an audible effect. For a recent project I use a 500-600km single twisted pair to both power devices and for data transmission. The cheapest possible cable was used, it was laid by soldiers 15cm below the service, there are various connections along the length (sometime the cables are just twisted and poorly isolated and there is no problem with data transmission/reception. You have to realize that such cables transmit waves as long as there is no dramatic change in impedance (a short, broken cable etc) I've designed the receivers to suppress echos. So when it comes to cables that will transmit a digital signal, people can save their money.... Don't by the absolute junk that is going to fall apart if you look at it, but don't spend absurd amounts of money on a cable! :)
I think it was very good you showed how a real "square" waveform looks like! It's about time people realize that a digital recording does not produce a square signal. In fact our current technology can't produce a square signal (with vertical lines) even using superconductors, simply because the current during this vertical transition will have to be infinite. And we electronics engineers don't work with infinite anything! And certainly not infinite current! You can't imagine how many times I've had to bring an oscilloscope to the living room just to show people that nothing is square! :)
If the sending device on a I²S connection has a poor clock, the word clock is poor too. And, as you mentioned, the same goes for poor cabling. And don't mis up dat channels to audio channels for with audio channels ending in a DAC, the tolerances are very limited.
What are bespoke diagrams? I'm willing to pay good money for a solution!
Sorry but I just lack the time.
You can't see it but my mouth is hanging open... I understood some of that but clearly I have much more learning to do. I was just looking for some sort of DAC that would hook up with HDMI between my Computer and my NAD T748 to help it sound more like my Oppo BDP 103. Probably not possible I imagine.
The more you know the more you realise how little you know
Former analog electronics teacher. You must be a very wealthy man!
sure, I am in good health and am blessed with a fantastic spouse and fantastic children.
So how can someone find a device that both outputs the music files and shows them graphically that *isn't* a computer *CHEAPLY* ?
I'm not sure what you mean.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Well... What I mean is that on a very limited budget there are very few options to visually browse your music files ( see album covers etc. ) that *don't* involve a computer. I am using an old t.v box ( mintex) with optical out, to a DAC but it's not ideal. Having viewed you comprehensive video a few times I understood your thoughts on multiple computer clocks and the jitter problem. Some really nice boxes that handle that problem but are very expensive. You mentioned blue ray and dvd players have fewer clocks, but they don't have a good G.U.I. Anyway thanks for the video, it's packed with information
Came for a simple tutorial
Left w/ a PhD in electronics
A day wel spent😄
"It looks like Microsoft does not like audio and video media" 😆
yeah... and their users in general..)
I know, right?