SPDIF, TOSlink, AES/EBU or I²S, what’s the best?
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- What digital interface is the best? This is a question that is often posted on this channel. When it passed again last week, I found it time to explain the differences and try to weapon you with knowledge so you can decide for yourself.
Contents of this video
00:00 - Intro
00:23 - Start of program
00:57 - The AES-3 interfaces
02:01 - Bi-phase mark
05:41 - Physical level
06:51 - The subcode
07:54 - The quality
08:52 - USB Audio
09:33 - Audio Class 1
10:58 - Audio Class 2
12:00 - The quality
12:59 - HDMI for audio
14:29 - I²S is not HDMI
16:24 - The wrap
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If your serious about audio this video is is priceless. Thank you for this great point of reference with clear explanations. This is an instant classic for audio enthusiasts in all platforms. Thank you 🙏🏿 Hans
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very good description of the technology Hans. It's amazing how many choices we have available today in audio.
It is, isn't it
All my best to you, Hans !!! You put your heart and soul into all your videos. :)
Excellent video Hans. Glad to have you back in top form.
Me too
Hans, this is the best explanation I have yet to hear about this all too confusing subject. Your graphics are easy to understand and support your talk. Thanks for helping us understand what we have as options and how they work. - Ray
Great to hear!
Thanks you Hans...Although I have already learnt all the contents that you have said on this video.
It's still very refreshing to see such a reference grade video made for people's future reference.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you and your family.
Mery Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours too!
This is so wonderfully descriptive, thank you for making this! I've learned a lot from this.
My pleasure
Uncle Hans.. You are spot on about the use of certain connections depending on the component. In my system, I have switched between the two spidf standards hundreds of times
Mery Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours too!
Excellent video, Hans. Thanks a lot for your in depth analysis and great visualisations!
Glad you liked it!
Welcome back, great review as always
Thanks
Excellent explanations 👍I especially liked how you showed that the 'digital' signal is not 1' and 0's floating through a cable, but sequences of analog squarewaves on a treasures journey from source to receiver / dac..
Glad it was helpful!
Does anyone actually think that real numbers fly through wires? The square wave is a representation of binary.
Your wealth of knowledge is truly impressive Hans!
I stand on very big shoulders
Video of the year!
Merry Christmas Hans! 🎄
Thanks, you too!
Thanks again, Hans. Another excellent, informative video.
Very welcome
Very clear explanation Hans! Thank you.
Glad you liked it
Fantastic clarification, Hans! Thanks so much!
Glad you enjoyed it!
this is what I'm waiting for. thank you very much.
You are welcome!
Thanks Hans, you rock :) Merry Christmas
Enjoy the music
Hans, thank you for your thorough review of digital-interface cables, what they do and the different ways in which they're used. You are so right to point out that how well a particular kind of digital interconnect cable works (how good it "sounds") depends greatly on the quality of the equipment we use it with.
I hope sometime soon, if you haven't done so already, you can give us, your loyal viewers, a follow-up report on how well you have recovered from the operation to restore the steadiness in your hands. Has the device the doctors implanted given your hands the steadiness they had before the tremors began to really affect you? I am very happy to see you looking good and back to giving us your excellent and very informative videos!
You probably have seen this one: ruclips.net/video/nYG4t9SHQYA/видео.html. I plan to do a report on the progression after half a year.
Wow. That was great. Thanks for such a thorough breakdown.
Glad you enjoyed it!
So glad I found your channel! Highly informative and super well explained. Subscribed and thumbs up! Doe verder zo!
🙏🏽
Clear and succinct explanations, thank you very much 😊
👍🏼
this is one of the best explanations ever! thanks so much
You're very welcome!
A wealth of information as usual!
Always, by the end of your videos, I have learned - or at least - clarified something new in my head. Thank you Hans and all the very best for a happy Christmas and a healthy New Year!
Mery Christmas and Happy New Year to you and yours too!
Great job explaining the different interfaces. New to me was the pin layout in I2S can differ from manufactures, if I understood that correct.
You did understand correctly
Thank you for excellent explanation.
You are welcome!
The is truly a Reference Grade video, thank you Hans, fantastic work as ever. I wish my old college text books were as clear and well reasoned as your videos. I would have achieved far better grades!! Merry Christmas from the UK.
Many thanks and a Merry Christmas to you and yours.
Great information video, thanks
Thanks for watching!
YOUR ARE AMAZING, thank you very much !
You're welcome!
Excellent detail
Thanks!
Thank you Hans for this very knowledgeable exposé! I used to work in the broadcast industry where stereo audio was transported AES EBU true one 75 ohms coax.
Thanks for sharing
Thank you again Hans😎👍👍
Always welcome
Well done , thanks
Thanks for watching!
Opnieuw een zeer interessante video. PS Ook mijn vrouw waardeert uw video's zeer. In haar geval niet vanwege de inhoud, maar vooral vanwege uw rustgevende stemgeluid waarbij zij heerlijk ontspant terwijl ik vol interesse luister 😀
I'm glad I can entertain your wife too
Thanks for this, Hans. I learned from your video.
A fairly clear explanation of a very murky subject to 99% of audiophiles. As in so many engineering specifications and standards, the major influence on whether to need 'pro' level interfaces and cables is *distance.* And in that light, there's the issue of 'audible difference.' Pro and broadcast gear may fall into a chain of dozens of items between source and endpoint. There, the contribution of each item in the chain adds to make (otherwise) inaudible signal changes accumulate to become audio issues that *are* audible in a broadcast or recording. And for example, sending these interconnections hundreds of meters between a concert and a TV/radio/recording 'truck' may be a chore that we mere audiophiles needn't face.
My point: That professional level interconnection standards and practices that are nice to know and "get your head around" may offer advantages that simply playing back high quality music at home doesn't need. [Ground loops excepted.]
In practice the pro formats can sound better under domestic circumstances. For instance if the implementation of AES/EBU is better than the SPDIF one. Or, indeed, with ground loops, poor PSU's and so on. In Audio theory is nice, but in practice things might differ.
With technology where it is now, and ignoring patent/licensing/competition issues, are we at a point now where we could have a reasonable cost (
My experience doesn’t
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Agreed. Experience tells me we may not even get there in 200 years, but not because of technology. That's why I'm curious about our current collective ability.
There was one other interface from the past: SDIF-2 was a three-cable solution (Left/Right/Word Clock) used on professional PCM equipment in the early days of CD. I have SDIF-2 to S/PDIF AES/EBU conversion equipment which I use for recording from PCM1630 tapes to modern equipment. As for AES/EBU vs. S/PDIF, you can connect either signal with suitable cables and a modern digital recorder may just work, I can connect either directly to a Tascam DR-100MKII for example.
If you have watched de video carefully you must have noted that I mention SDIF in two generations (1 and 2) and SDIF-3, being used for DSD recording
SPDIV is any stream, just raw data!
it can support 20 channels!
Is your DAC is understanding the 20 channels it gets offered over SPDIV, or do you need to upgrade that DAC!
please use HDMI 2.1 if you need cables, forgot all the 1980 cables! Stream all music!
thanks for a great videos
Glad you like them!
Very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks sir. For explain 🎉
my pleasure
Hey Hans, as someone with a vintage dac, what do you think about the ST glass optical input vs AES/EBU, Coax, Toslink?
thank you!
👍🏼
/thank you great information
Our pleasure!
Great thanks
👍🏼
Very good video Hans! 👍 One note on the I2s, the reason for HDMI/Ethernet cables is to transmit the delicate I2s signal balanced (and they are good for transmitting high speed data)! Some manufactures referee this as the PS-audio "standard" but other manufactures have there own balanced pin configuration for the I2s signal's. There are balanced converter on the sender and a unbalanced converter on the receiving end. And i think that the signal by passes the dac's internal clock and connect's to the DA-converter's I2s pin without the need for a PLL clock. (I have upgraded my 10year's old dac with an HDMI-I2s connector)
.
You don't need Ethernet anymore, you can stream it over HDMI now!
What DAC u use now? guess you need upgrades, needing HDMI 2.1!
Thank you very much!
There was one system missing in this story and that was Firewire or iee1394. I use a digital mixing board that uses that interface and it is not without its problems, but once it is stable it does the job. (16 ch 24bit 96khz..) Is it a sensible interface you think?
FireWire has hardly been available in the domestic audio market.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel dank je Hans ( ik heet ook Hans dus dat klets makkelijker)
Ik vroeg het omdat firewire ook een stroom is en usb woorden zijn... wellicht dat firewire dan een voordeeltje heeft.
Bovendien ieee1394 was standaard voor elke Mac en mini-dv camera in de late jaren 90 en vroege 2000....
Would using the Pontus 2 going via XLR to active speakers (acoustic energy ae1)using their volume controls be okay.
Would it prove a difficult load going direct without a pre-amp?
I have no hands-on experience with your speakers but if your speakers have a workable volume control (remote) it will technically be a viable solution.
Thank you for the explanations. From what I have heard the I2S is advised. As on Denafrips Dacs (HDMI interface) and on Sonnet Dacs (RJ45 interface).
In this regards they probably paid more attention to that connection and not so much to the others (possibly).
Unfortunately I could not distinguish which cable was mentioned at around 15:30 mark. "AZ mad/mac cable"? Search engine does not help. Any suggestions?
You can always use subtitling
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Of course that was the first thing I have tried. It badly translates it to dutch. And if english is chosen, then it translates the dutch back to english, needless to say that that is also incorret.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hi Hans, yeah, the subtitling didn't work for me either.
Can you elaborate what is the AC/MAC cable that you referred to in the video? Thank you in advance.
Selectable subtitles are in Dutch only.
I wrote to RUclips asking for an explanation and they can't give me an answer.
Ancient Zen proverb says: before following what the teacher says, try to understand what the teacher says.
A prayer for English subtitles…
He is just saying HDMI cable there. No brand name mentioned.
Bedankt
🙏🏻🙏🏻
Hans, great video as always. It would have been great to learn about the difference between HDMI cables for I2S. I know most use LVDS but there is at least one other standard… I’m still not clear on the difference between them (one is compatible with both, but one is more limited). Any knowledge you can share would be great!
I don't do cable reviews. And I don't own a DAC that has I²S inputs. Sorry.
With the physical cable, there are no differences. That's the point. PS Audio recognized that HDMI cables are capable of transmitting the I2S signal quite well. While they use the physical cable, they do not use the actual protocol, but rather use the individual channels within the cable to facilitate the signal and clocks.
Hans, dank!
👍🏼
Excellent.
Thank you! Cheers!
Very Good Very Good.......Straight and to the point. "" It Depends "" I Like It. :-) It not only fits here but just about everywhere else , and always when your wearing horseshoes.
Cheers
Fair enough!
My first experience with I2S was the ps audio perfect wave dac and transport. It was an hdmi cable using the I2s protocol. It was excellent and I attributed it to the buffering and the I2s. My dac will receive toslink, spdif, aes, I2s and usb. Choosing a roon player am using a usb to the dac and sound quality is amazing. Using toslink to stream Amazon hd from chroma at audio and while very satisfying, not up to the usb.
Thanks for sharing!
Great video but I missed one thing: is I2S synchronous or asynchronous?
It is synchronous but with separate clock lines
I just purchased the BlueSound Node (2021) and currently feed it to my Holo Spring KTE dac via SPDIF. it's a nice solution but they are working to get the USB output to work (still waiting). I did ask about using a DDC (Singxer SU6) with BS Node. They responded "Yesterday's update did not include USB DAC output, not from lack of trying though and we are still looking to add it very shortly. That being said, it is very unlikely it will support I2S." I would have thought if their USB output would work then the SU6 would reclock and would support I2s to my dac?
Thanks for sharing. But although the Node is a very fine device within its price bracket, it limits the quality of the Holo....
Check out the Magna Mano player (from Magna Hifi). It’s a streamer that is more expensive than the Node but does I2S. It’s a great price/quality device
I meant to mention that I own the PS Audio SACD transport and DirectStream DAC and I use I²S via pseudo-HDMI connectors to connect the two, with excellent results
I²S, like AES/EBU can be a very good interface but only when done properly.
Thanks, Hans. I agree. I hope to have the Mk II DirectStream DAC soon.
I have the PS Audio DirectStream and their NuWave Phono Converter (and also their power regenerator). Since my Thorens 320 MKII / Grado Gold3 needs to be on a very stable surface, it is a 12' length to my pre. I use the NuWave Phono Converter to deliver I2S (DSD128) to my DAC. (Don't hit me!) The results are stunning. There would be more change in the signal if I tried to extend the phono lines.
@@johnmarchington3146 You're in for a real treat! Happy listening!
But Hans, isn’t USB the better choice whenever you have an onboard dac in your amp, so the clock works optimal?
No, watch the video again
Wouldnt the best connection be the one that can deliver the most data the fastest correctly?
I'm afraid not. The best connection is the one that delivers the accurate amount of data at the correct speed. 'As fast as possible' is always the noisiest way.
It seems when I use I2S HDMI from DDC to Dac , the left right channels are swapped. Any suggestions on fixing this and not affect the sound?
There is no standard for I²S over HDMI cable. Some devices can change the pinout by settings.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel for example, my Dac can inverse I2S. Should I choose this option?
I've been wondering what can I do with the I2S on the back of my SMSL D0200 Dac especially since it has XLR, RCA and Toslink.
Enjoy the music
You start and finish the video with the same question.
Should have titled this various digital connection explained.
Thanks for the info.
Yes, you are right, but did you learn from that??
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Gee, thought posting "thanks for the info" would make that abundantly obvious.
hahaha
Enjoy the New Year!
hi thanks for the extremely valuable video There is an aspect that escapes me and I can't really understand
leaving aside the cheap equipment for a moment and instead analyzing the valuable ones, I swear that I don't understand why DACs and digital sources of a certain level have not adopted for the transmission of the spdif signal the BNC standard which is the one commonly used for digital oscilloscopes, function generators and digital spectrum analyzers
It was a standard already available and absolutely valid since they use it up to 1 GHz
Not only that, I have also seen that these units are so precise that they are able to highlight problems even in the bnc to bnc connection cable, for example with square wave tests.
That is, it seems that every now and then in high fidelity there is a naïve, unscientific approach
The RCA cable was not created for transferring digital signals but analog ones.
I really don't understand why you should force yourself to adapt a cable wrong by design
A 50USD right cable could be much superior to a 500USD cable wrong by design
Obviously it's not even worth discussing cheap devices with their understandable limits
True. But there are good 75 ohm cables with RCA’s as used for composite video ( yellow plugs) and there are very good SPDIF cables from Audiofile cable manufacturers.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel hi thank you very much indeed for your kind and very valuable advice
My feeling is that good RCAs could be more expensive than standard BNC
But the option of BNC on dacs is quite rare and even more on digital source
So it is no question RCA cable also for spdif Kindest regards gino
Would i2s be the better option for dsd playback from sacd player? I’m using a hdmi to i2s extractor
I don’t know. Sorry
My problem is how to find a i2s cable. A lot of good brands have hdmi, but I don't find any i2s cable. Can you help me ?
A good HDMI cable functions as an I²S cable. The demands for HDMI are a lot higher than for I²S.
I use RICABLE HDMI F1MK II Supreme made in Italy.
What’s really interesting is most audiophile high end dealers say balanced is far better than RCA which is nonsense if you speak to someone who actually knows what they are talking about. USB is rubbish compared to AES/EBU or SPDIF which again is rubbish. Case in point recently was considering upgrading my MSB DAC to the new DCS Apex Bartok which is used on its own along with connected to my Antipodes server using USB and sounded great although virtually the same. My dealer then said I had to listen to a new brand he had taken on at the Munich show called Ideon and listen to their ION DAC which also uses USB . It transformed the sound by at least 30% in all areas , I was blown away. Clearly Ideon are doing something completely different when it comes to their USB compared to other companies as their DAC’s are on another level. Just goes to show it’s not the connection but how they are configuring it that makes the difference.
Well that’s what I keep telling all the time. It’s not the type of interface but how well it is implemented on both sides.
What about Ethernet, my Brooklyn Bridge has a network connection...?
That's a different interface. In fact it is a network bridge integrated in the Brooklyn DAC. The bridge in the Brooklyn Bridge is comparable to a separate network bridge of about € 600 to € 800.
Ethernet was good in the old days, SPDIV too
Then you can do any data, and have all the bandwidth you need, no restrictions!
But now people just need to stream music, this guy is Real to real levels still, not understanding.....
Sibilence is a problem, but I learned some valuable things.
Sibilance is the most difficult artefact to conquer.
And USB 2.0....? It supports much higher Sample Rates...,
but does it sound better than AES ?
Many Thanks
Ah, higher number sound better… In audio higher numbers don’t say much unless you take them all into account and that’s complex. If done very well AES/EBU sounds very good (it’s what studios use). Higher sampling rates are not used in studios.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I use PSI Audio Monitors and use them for Mixing but also for Music Hearing Sessions...So USB should sound better, only for Hearing and not for Producing? Is the Gain Output the same on USB as on AES ?Thanks
What is "AZ Mag cable?" I can not find it on the Internets.
I don't know either. You could switch on CC (Close Caption/subtitles) to see what I really said.
At 15:27. Cannot make sense of the Close Captioning
With the latest Wi-Fi standards and Wi-Fi direct, seems to me that the days are worrying about digital cables are numbered.
If more Dacs include Wi-Fi streaming as most good receivers nowadays, interconnects will be less relevant
I wish you luck with wifi in a crowded area.
This has nothing to do with wi-fi, just a network level
what data your DAC is understanding, can it decode the ATMOS?
receivers nowadays? streaming you need, no wires!
What about AT&T glass?
Haven't tried
Like the 8th time I watched this.., finally getting it.., that I’m buggered… no one is working in the local hifi shops knows this.. they’re mostly vinyl …. & I’m stuck with the connections my gear has or doing a PhD to figure the next match up
In gear😂👍🙏
Your perseverance is recommendable. It is the way I collected my knowledge too.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel
Lol yes… 10 yrs gaining context.. to get my near final speakers & amp , much of it listening to your reviews & insights..
Next is proper DAC & possibly streamer upgrade from bluesound node 2..
Looking to learn the “best” connections….
but as you say it all depends.
Thank Hans for everything 🙏🙏
I constantly read or watching things multiple times to allow a subject to sink in. Everyone's mind works in a different way, if this works for you then you've done well be re-watching.
@@pauldavidthomasfrodo
👍😂… @ 42 yrs.., I did a course on mindfulness.., amongst other …
I learnt a lot about how I think of self..👍😂
A huge thing for me to get is that it’s ok & proper for me/ us to read near everything at least 3 times b4 we.. give opinion/ think we got it… etc etc
What a huge relief.., I had always thought that you must look at & ingest in one go.., or you’re stupid (which now sounds stupid as I type it)
I had always thought I was a slow/ poor learner😂
I consult on Marine engineering…, man the stuff we believe of self
I wonder if switching from my laptop to a dedicated streamer will improve sound quality
95% the sound quality will improve 150% provided you buy a streamer or network bridge of the same quality as the rest of your stereo
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel A reply from the man himself, I feel honored. That would indeed be a massive improvement. My current system is a Marantz pm8005, Topping D30pro dac and Triangle Comet EZ speakers. Merry Christmas and good health to you and your kin Hans.
@@spuddyl9938 in computers there are many times minor quality soundcards, so I would certainly go for a good quality streamer
@@thepuma2012 I'm not using the computers soundcard. I'm using a Topping D30 pro which is connected to the laptop via usb. What I'm wondering is if the sound quality would go up significantly if I used a dedicated streamer as a source rather than my laptop.
@@spuddyl9938 that might depend on how the connection is made, you might have to look at the difference between usb connection and optic etc. ( i dont have the answer)
Definitive explanation of the subject, I'd suggest.
👍🏼
It is probably a fantastic video, but I'M A DUMMY 😓😭, sorry but it's to technical for my, I need examples how the connection looks like and wich one I should take.🙃
Understood
And the best is?
The one that sounds best and that varies between devices. Sorry, there are no easy answers.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks. yes, I know That. All the best.
S/PDIF IS FINE.....RCA IS FINE......
AES/EBU is fine too, as is I²S. But only if it is done well.