A comprehensive introduction into the Roon music cataloguing and streaming program
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- Опубликовано: 2 ноя 2017
- In my review I described some of the basics of the Roon system and primarily showed the impressive user interface. Still people don’t grasp the unique qualities of Roon, so it’s time for a lengthy explanation on what makes Roon so unique.
Promo code Roon: Due to misuse by other viewers this code is no longer available
Roon review: • 028 Roonlabs audio pla...
Installing Roon Rock on Intel NUC: • Roon ROCK - Roon Core ...
Connecting your DAC part 2: • 016 Connecting your DA...
Elac Discovery DS-S101-G review: • Review: Elac Discovery...
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Excellent video! I will be watching the others you've created as I'm sure they are just as good. Thanks for taking the time to do these.
Welcome aboard!
Thank you Hans. A most useful introduction to Roon. You’re obviously impressed with the software and understand it well. I do not yet have it but will take my time researching it and working out how to integrate this into our system 😎
My pleasure!
Hello Hans, thank you very mutch for the Roon Promo code.
I'm using Roon on my desktop computer in cobination with my NAD M51 DAC.
It gives me a great chance to compare it to JRiver, the program i use until now.
From what i have seen so far, i'm not disapointed.
This is such a comprehensive and helpful video. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you Hans! A very VERY useful introduction to Room. And high production values too.
Honestly what a professional this guy is. Clear, succinct, and unpatronising, thank you!
Wow, thanks!
Awesome as usual. cheers for sharing
You make the best videos. Thank you very much
A great video Hans, very well presented to a NEW Roon User in Australia! Thank you
🙏
Extraordinarily clear and comprehensive introduction and orientation to Roon. The Roon software sets a very high bar, and may account for some of the improvements I have seen in other software recently (e.g., Aurender). Thanks for the thoughtful video.
🙏🏽
Great introduction video! Thanks
You are welcome!
Super helpful video, I learned a lot about Roon, and in particular how its components work together, and how I could put together to my benefit. I learned why others have built their digital systems together the way they, which they seemed unable to do themselves (even though they tried) ;-)
Great to hear!
Man, you are good and explaining things Hans. Nice job thanks !
🙏🏽
Yes Hans, I'm late to this, but what an amazing introduction and review.
Glad you liked it!
I found the hardware upgrade of my old Squeezebox system to a Roon system the biggest obstacle to overcome. The LMS that was running on a QNAP Nas with iPad 2 as remote did not work with Roon software. So I invested in a NUC i5 for the Roon Core and a MS Surface Pro 4 as replacement for the iPad and an older laptop. With a Tidal subscription to complete the missing parts in my music collection my family joined in using Roon since it has multiple endpoint options.
As I said in the video: to current standards the requirements for Roon are not too steep. But if you own older gear, you're in for a surprise.
I tried finding my inevitable comment from 2017 that went, "there's no way I'm paying that much for streaming software." Well here it is 2020 and I have Roon and a Roon ROCK NUC and I love it. :)
👍🏼
Thank you!
You're welcome!
Excellent! Thanks Hans!
Glad you enjoyed it
Hans, thinking of getting an Elac Discovery after your excellent piece, but does it act as its own renderer, or does it require a separate renderer and/or a clock add on before the signal goes to the DAC?
Roon Server on linux, allo digione endpoint, wonderful music!
Much like Matthias' comments. I have Roon server running on my Ubuntu server. I have a new Allo Digione running Ropieee. Setup was ok. I don't like that there isn't a control application for Linux, so I have to manage my server from an Android tablet. The Ropieee setup was super easy. Only problem is the Touchscreen doesn't have the track information?
This is a new set-up as I have been using Plex and a Hifi-Berry Digi+. This is a bit better.
All in all, a great set-up and beautiful sound.
Great video, Hans!! It answered many of my questions. I just wish that 2-month promo code was still valid.
So do I.
was there an issue with your audio on this video? sounds odd compared to other ones . tried at 1080p and 720
After using Roon for two months using the code which you kindly sent me, I have to admit that now I understand why some audiophiles would buy such an expensive music player. It is extremely easy to set up and the interface is simple yet feature-packed and the way it organizes your files is just second to none . Sadly, I still can't afford it and although I still have a few decent free alternatives, I'm going to miss Roon!
Expensive is a relative concept. I have seen people 'tweeting' their cd-player for the same amount...... But being able to afford it is an absolute 'concept'..
Yes, I agree with you on that.
Love your videos !!
They are quite informative ..and easy to understand and what in roon’s case is hard to understand at first .. because of the complexity of what it can do..if asked to do ..
I have a question-on the Node 2i .. which i just installed the what is the better output the RCA coaxial or the RCA analog ?
I was quite unhappy with the first listening session right out of the box ...as it was pretty exaggerated in the high end ..I do not know if it was the Node or the cable which was not new but unused for a number of years ..or the difference in the DAC’s being used ..all of them re involved in some way ..and the sound is improving each hour . Thank You for your continued videos ..and reviews that are quite great
comparing the digital output with the analog output is like comparing apples with oranges. The right question should be: "what sounds the best". And that depends on where the digital input is connected too. The digital to analog conversion in the Node 2i is quite good for the money but if you hook up a higher class external DAC (or amplifier with a DAC built in) to the digital output of the Node 2i, the result might be even better.
I have the Node 2 as well, I have done A/B tests between the analog outs and Coax to the DAC of my CD (Marantz SA-11S3) player. I have found using a high quality external DAC is quite superior audio. Cheers.
@@thomasmead4642 hi ..I have gone thru a Lumin D2 ,Hugo2 and settled on a Holo Audio May KTE as my DAC ...and an Aurilac Aries G2.1 as the source using an Intona Professional USB cable ...
I went from the same System for 20 years to full blown Audiophiliac's disease ..during the pandemic
Hans, thank you so much for your excellent videos. Your explanations are very clear and understandable to someone like myself who doesn't need all the "details". I'm a very happy Roon user with a Nuc core. But I'm looking for a diagram that shows how the music files, from Tidal or my NAS, move thru my system: Node 2i, external DAC, Roon Core, McCormack power amp. This would be helpful in knowing where upgrading cables: power, coax, DC, would improve audio quality. Thank you if you're able to provide this visualization of how the "music" actually moves across my system. Best regards, David
Sorry but I can't do bespoke advise
Hans, I have looked at the Roon Nucleus as an alternative to setting on Roon on a pc separately. Do you have any thoughts on the Roon Nucleus? Thanks
See my review
Thank you so much for another great video! One thing I haven't been able to find is a roon can handle 24 192 to multiple devices question if so how many at those sampling rate? Thanks in advance. I currently use playfi and they can only do 24 192 to 1 device.
Roon is only limied by your hardware, ie. the computer the Roon core runs on and your network. I have tested Roon up to eight endpoints.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thank you again! Cheers from San Diego California . Your videos are very helpful.
Thanks so much! The clarity of your explanation helps a novice like me understand. Question I Jane an Antipodes DS server that is Roon ready, but I’ve been told Spotify does not interface with Roon. Is this accurate?
That's correct. Roon can/will work only with streaming services that give sufficient access to the metadata to maintain the Roon Experience. Furthermore I don't think that people that are willing to spend this kind of money are interested in lossy compressed music files. But from what I see the Antipodes products support several server programs, like for instance the Squeezebox format. There is a plugin for Spotify for Squeezebox. Perhaps that will work for you.
The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel yes thank you I’ve been using Spotify already thought Roon would enhance music sources. One other question. Antipodes is coming out with a new product line. They told me that my DS unit would be greatly enhance with the purchase of the S60 power supply. $2000 for this unit. How would this enhance the system? Would it be an audible improvement in your opinion. Speakers are by Anthony Gallo Strada 2 and TR3D woofer. Just curious. Thanks
Thnx Hans for a great explanation of Roon.
Unfortunately, I cannot afford the price plan of Roon myself.
Still as an Audiofile I am looking for a player and media manager that supports lossless formats and has a player for Mac and iPhone.
Is there any alternative you would recommend?
You might want to watch ruclips.net/video/G9EreotBL6c/видео.html
how is the sound quality compare to a music file on your computer with equal quality on both tracks ?
I don't get your question. Sorry.
Hi Hans, your intro to Roon and Roon Rock Part1 have been really helpful - thanks so much! I am getting ready to invest a big of money into a NUC and my plan is to connect it directly to my DAC (so I will have to also find out if I will need Roon Bridge...) - any advice as to which input would be best to use? my DAC has both USB and HDMI LVDS 12S HDlink...?
Hard to say. It depends on the DAC. I would seriously consider a DDC like the Singxer I reviewed. The NUC is a great Roon server but, like any ‘normal’ computer, a poor audio source. Or indeed use a Roon Bridge like the SOtM sMS 200.
Roon sampling VS native endpoint DAC. Does Roon process the signal for all endpoints or can the integration offload the task to be natively handled by the endpoint? I have BluOS devices in my home which have their own indexed libraries and access to my media by directly downloading the content from the NAS. With Roon, is it still the intermediary therefore downloading the track into its core server and then ‘streaming’ the content to BluOS?
If processing is needed, Roon will take care of it. Most people enjoy the ‘Roon-ed’ version over the direct Bluesound signal. But that also depends on equipment and preferences.
Hi Hans thanks for the reply. What do you mean by the '"Roon-ed" version? I have tried to do some of my own research on the subject and cannot get a complete answer. It does seem that Roon does apply its own software based signal processing to all music files in order to convert it into a stream that can be delivered via their Roon Advanced Audio Transport (RAAT). It is a neat feature that allows them to up or down sample content to the receiving endpoints means. My reservation is the integrity of the music which reaches this endpoint and processes used in their conversion pipeline. I'd prefer the journey remain raw to allow my device to provide the native processing and conversion. I might be wrong, but I think their stream is also compressed which means there is also a loss of detail. It might be very high quality, but presently MQA is the only lossy streaming technology that is certified as High Res. Just because my DAC registers 24bit 192k doesn't mean all the detail is there....
Thanks Hans, very informative. Could I stream from Roon to my sonos group, and the same music to another end point eg. the bluesound node ? Would they be synched or not ?
No, you can only link endpoints of the same nature.
hi Hans, great explanation of Roon, i tried to run it on my NAS with an external SSD on USB port but that didn't work unfortunately. my Synology NAS DS412+ is too light of RAM and intern clockspeed. so now i play Roon core on my desktop pc. that works fine. i am considering a NUC/ROCK now because it is silent and can be in a closet and stay on all the time. i am looking for a good NUC now. ;-)
Go for an i5 NUC of the 10th generation (11th gen is not compatible with ROCK - (yet?)). Using ROCK on a NUC is by far the most stable way to go..
your discount code has expired
Will a 2012 Mac Mini 2.5 MHz dual core i5 w 3 meg level 3 cash clocked up to 3.1 MHz with upgraded Samsung SSD EVO 500 GIG and 16 gigs of ram run Roon Core satisfactorily?
Mack
Yes, it will
Hi Hans. Does it make a difference if a laptop with core installed is connected to network wia lan cable, versus wlan? When listening to music from 3.5 inch drive that is attached to laptop? Thank you.
That depends on the hardware, how much ether is free on the Wlan frequencies, the quality of your endpoints and so on. I would at least prefer to have the computer running the core connected over lan cable. Especially if you run more than one endpoint or use services like Tidal or Qobuz. It might go well with Wlan, but you're never sure.
It’s a shame Aurender does not support Roon. Thanks for explaining, Hans !
My pleasure
Great video. I am still discovering it. Do you find Roon radio better than say Tidals own radio.
Also, my DSD256 capable DAC is only able to upsample upto DSD128 via Roon from Tidal. On that note, should we be upsampling to DSD?
Thanks Hans
I can't judge if you would enjoy Roon radio more than Tidal's. That's up to you. I see no point in upsampling DSD128 to DSD256. You don' get more information and there is no problem with reconstruction filters performing better at higher sampling rates since DSD128's sampling rate is already high enough.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks. To my surprise and against most forums, I'm finding Roon's SQ to be cleaner than even Audirvana's. Discovery and all other features aside, the difference is so stark that I might need to shell out 700 dollars. I do EQ and I simply haven't heard my music so clean ever before. Thanks for the video again!
Thank you for the explanation. Still, what I hear is that they expect me to pay extra for a nice GUI. I fully expect a music player to play all the files I throw at it without paying a premium. If the customers like it the big streaming services will copy this user experience for sure.
You get what you pay for. What you want to spend is up to you. Options enough.
Take advantage of the promo code and give it a try. I think you will find that it is far more than just a nice GUI. Since the trial is free and two months is plenty of time to get thoroughly familiar, what have you got to lose?
the one thing stopping me from buying a year of roon is the fact that I dunno if it will work well with just a single laptop with no speakers, no streamers, and no other endpoints other than a portable DAC and headphones.. i did try it for about a few hours and really enjoyed it but i had an issue of the fact that there wasn't really a button to completely turn off the audio and allow me to for example watch a youtube video or have a call on discord since roon took complete control... i am either going with roon or audirvana and though I love roons amazing interface and how it basically perfectly combines tidal and your storage with each other, I dunno how well it works when you don't have a roon server all the time and just listen to music sometimes and not the only thing you use it with
If you close the Roon app, it will release the audio outputs. When using Roon it will take over the outputs to deliver bit perfect signals.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel thanks.. the only real difficult point is figuring out whether to get a year of room or audirvana.. both are fantastic, I'm just tempted by the UI and recommendation system of roon (not roon radio though I don't do playlist style), and I feel pretty comfortable in audirvana, it sounded nice, and the connection with tidal works really well... its hard to choose (I know you don't make choices)
I've installed Roon core on my MacBook Air, and it seems to be working fine - when I use it on the laptop. But when I try to use it on an iPad or iPhone, I can't connect to the server unless my Mac is open and running. Is there some setting on the Mac that I need to change that will allow access without having the laptop open?
The MacBook has to be running. What you can do is ruin down the screen brightness to zero and keep the lid open.
What’s the difference btw running iTunes via airplay to multiple devices and running this Roon..?? I don’t get it...
I think the enhanced interface and the ability to have music from other streaming services all running on the same program.
Higher quality sound is the main thing. As well as other features.
Hi Hans: i searched it everywhere but still its not clear to me. If i have roon om my macmini, and connect the macmini through headphone out with correct cable (3mm to toslink) to for example a yamaha musicast wxc50 ( with integrated Dac) or a regular amp ( nad amp1= argon sa1)that also has a Dac) would it be recognised as an endpoint? Is that a wise thing to do? Or is it essential or better to buy an Allo boss to connect to an amp? I actually heritated a quad 405 poweramp (I dont have a preamp yet)+Acoustic research 318ps speakers, have the mac mini and a rega rp1 phono+rega phono amp. I am trying to add streaming to this in a proper way with roonintegration. Thats why I thought of the yamaha wxc50. In my head however a real amp with pre out seems better. I hope its not a stupid question. Alvast bedankt!
Yes, the headphone output will be recognised by Roon but no, connected over the WXC50, it won't deliver the quality your setup deserves. You might use the USB on the MacMini to connect a USB DAC to (watch ruclips.net/video/G9EreotBL6c/видео.html). You vind reviews of DAC's here: ruclips.net/video/grzoqEb2KMk/видео.html
Hi Hans , i thought so but I cant think this out logically:
macmini usb out to usb dac (schiit modi3 of Cambridge dacmagic100) and than rca to The wcx50 ( I need a preamp with volumecontrole & Spotify too) using the dac of the schiit or do I do digital out (coax?)to use the dac in the wcx50?
Isn’t an Ethernet connected Allo boss dac with roopie ( for roon endpoint+Spotify + dac) connected to a normal preamp as worthy?
Now I kind of want a cup of coffee.
I love Caffè Italiano Bocca Della Verità😋
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Hans, I've watched many of your videos (thank you!), I'm super impressed at your ability to crack a dry, witty joke and keep a dead straight face. Well done!
Sir, does Roon connect to Apple Music streaming? In other words, can I play Apple Music catalog via Roon interface?
no, Roon only supports Tidal and Qobuz
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel so one needs to pay for Roon and Tidal or Qobuz?
You can use airplay
Have you tested Volumio ?
I cant deside what to use / if Roon is worth the money.
is Roon or Volumin the better alternativewhen it comes to sound quality ?
Watch ruclips.net/video/TRyCpZh9-pI/видео.html and ruclips.net/video/5jn1SWfK1VI/видео.html. But Roon is so much more than Volumio. Whether one sounds better over the other depends on the hardware used.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel ok :-) ill give it a try
I was lost 30 seconds into this video. Is Roon a music streaming service like Spotify where you are listening to music on Spotify's servers? or Is Roon an application like JRiver that is streaming digital music I have on my harddrive?
OK I watched this video again and I've answered my own question, it's a music player like JRiveria or Itunes but with a better interface.
And it plays music from the streaming services tidal and Qobus
It’s been 3 years now. Apple has now updated their music service. Is Airplay still limited to 48 kHz streams?
BTW, GREAT VIDEO! I just discovered Roon and am using the now 14 day trial. I installed Roon in an Apple Mini i7 connected to my network via WiFi. Roon works fine. My local music is stored in a Synology NAS. My Yamaha receiver is connected to my network via Ethernet. Roon sees it via Airplay. If I play my local Music from my iPhone roon controller to the receiver, how does the stream travels? NAS via Ethernet to my router, router to phone via WiFi, phone to receiver via Airplay? Is this correct? Or is Roon able to send the stream via Ethernet from NAS to receiver? I’m confused.
AirPlay is still limited to 48 kHz. Roon sends signals directly to your endpoint. Your phone is merely a remote control.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Wow, thanks Hans.
When you say Roon sends the music directly to the endpoint, in this case my receiver (via Airplay). How does Roon core do Airplay? Does the core, running in my Mac Mini sends the Airplay to the receiver?
Yep
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel Thanks again, guess if I want to benefit from streams higher that 48 kHz, I’ll need ti buy a little rpi streamer/DAC and connect it to my Yamaha receiver. I appreciate your answers. I’ve found your videos very informative. Outstanding work.
If your receiver has a type B USB input consider the SOtM sMS-200….
The problem here Hans like with MQA is that these are proprietary protocols and closed source. This means if something happens to Roon Labs your expensive software just stops. You no longer get updates and the servers for metadata dry up. With Squeezebox being open source, people have been able to take over and continue to work and support the format. I understand the metadata is expensive, but there are other examples of open/crowd sourced metadata
That's incorrect Roon insured that risk. So if Roonlabs has to quit business, a server will assure you can keep using Roon 'as is'. BTW Roonlabs is privately owned and according to the founders doesn't work with external capital, a lesson they learned from their experiences with their previous company Sooloos.
Maybe I am an old cynic Hans, but I find guarantees written by private companies often fall apart, take the famous Hoover free flights in the UK as an example. I'd much rather see something open that allows the community to thrive, but hey you pays your money and takes your choice.
Well, contact them and they might give you more details. The risk is covered by a third party they stated in a post on their community.
I need a system to manage my music library more than to playback to an apartment complex. My main complaint about the newer Apple Music app is that the column browser is denied its magnificent organizing power. I do not like gallery views; I want lists and columns. I have 150,000 tracks in my iTunes library, and a 2014 computer doomed forever to an old OSX to use ye Olde iTunes. I have a 21.2 channel surround system combining Audyssey and Lexicon delay hardware, but find Apple iPod Max headphones very satisfying, especially for videos and movies. You do not mention how you add new music to a Roon library, or how it might update itself if I add tracks to iTunes. I don't think A-B-X testing evidence supports anyone hearing the differences in sample rates, as you describe, but whatever.
Does the roon software let you know when it downsamples to specific endpoint? Some endpoint May say they are hi-res compatible but they may not do DSD or 24bit/44khz
Many endpoints are recognised by Roon and then the settings are automatic. If not, you can set the highest sampling rate and bit depth for PCM. For DSD you can set the highest sampling rate and the protocol used (like DSD over PCM - DoP - or native). Or set that the endpoint does not support DSD in which case DSD is automatically converted to the highest PCM sampling frequency. A small 'light' richt of the name of the track played can be clicked to show the signal patch from original file to endpoint. If there is a conversion, upsampling or even tone control, it shows here.
The Hans Beekhuyzen Channel thank you that’s great , but as I understand the end point is also geared to down sample to pcm if it detects (native DSD for example ) and if it’s optical out via D/A or pre-amp like oppo bdp it will be downsampled to pcm regardless .is it possible to measure line signal. I have a feeling the signal path is being managed too much.
This is good - even for "dummies" !
Thanks
I'm looking for a roon code if you have one?? :)
Sorry, not anymore.
What about Jriver! Does NEARLY all the same as Roon but so, SO much cheaper. Poor man's Roon? Please review Jriver VS Roon
JRiver is a fine program that I have used (and sometimes still use) for years. But it is no comparison to Roon. If you are happy with JRiver, that's fine and I can only advise you to not try out Roon.
JRiver is not much cheaper if you keep upgrading to the latest version. Which, by the way, can be a pain.
Agreed
Is the promo code still valid ?
I don't know yet.It just turned 2018. Just try, there is no rist in trying. And please let me know either way.
The code is not valid anymore, unfortunately.
I'll see if I can get it activated again.
Sadly Roon hasn’t worked for last month since Catalina update when reading internal and external drives. Lots of frustration in the Roon forum and gone back you CDs. This can only happen again. Roon have been appalling and no fix on the horizon. Not replying when I asked for a refund.
I have it. Oddly enough I don't have any problem running Roon a my Catalena Macs...
I find Room completely pointless and won’t renew my subscription. I use Qobuz on a high end system which does nearly everything Roon does and more.The Roon core is on my home Mac which I need to switch on to ensure Roon works, this is a pain as I’m not the only user and don’t use my home computer very much. Qobuz, etc don’t require this. If I put it on my iMac, Roon switches off when my Mac is closed.
Qobuz is now integrated with Roon with the newest version
Correct. My review is already online at Patreon.com and will be on RUclips coming Friday.
@@TheHansBeekhuyzenChannel I"m going to install 1.6 tomorrow, looking forward to see the Qobuz integration.
Tomorrow the 1.6 version video will be on line too.
Seems pointless , when I can use my Bluesound node 2i and use Qobuz and Apple Music their the software on its own. I’m confused by roon
Well, if you're satisfied with the Bluesound app, you're fine. Roon offers a lot of information on the album and the artist and so on. And it can control streamers of many brands. It's your choice.
Still,Audirvana is considered,by many people,better sound quality than Roon !...
That might be true, and the difference is very limited, but using Roon is so much better than Audirvana as far as I am concerned. Speedier user interface, far more metadata and so on. Luckily we all have a choice.