This is bad too. Very bad. We China Russia and other countries will form a new os eco system and abandon Linux Windows and other which are under the evil influence from the US government.
@@Burnsie One of the removed contributors wrote a driver for some arm-based acer notebook, that's actually recent. The copyright and the code is in place, it's just removed from the MAINTAINERS file.
I am waiting for some genetic nanophage that seems to only affect the Russians in 50 years. Because everything seems to be going in that direction with how much they are being unpersonned. Not even the North Koreans/Iranians have experienced this level of craziness and they are supposed to be evil too.
@@Burnsie Dude, you're grossly delusional. Russian programmers are among the BIGGEST contributors to pretty much ALL opensource code in the world. For LINUX, probably around 20% of the core code is by Russians.
actually, this puts the neutrality of linux under question. maybe, they should be based somewhere, where developers will not be baned from contributing based on their nationality. anyway, hope there will be a fork of the linux kernel that does not comply with the sanctions. and, maybe, also include zfs drivers
It is not the country the problem, it is the people who control the project. Everything Linux is for the users is not what it is for the foundation. The foundation only concern is getting money at all costs. The kernel also was never neutral, because Linus was dictating how should the project go on and what is allowed and what is not. The issue currently is that we see Linus's money hungry side.
tbf the BDFL model of the linux kernel is still superior to anything what any software foundation or organisation have achieved. Believe me, if the linux kernel ever somehow got sold or gifted to a large opaque body of people no one knows or has ever heard of, it would only get even worse then what it is today.
One of the worse things that could happen here is if Russia and China start working on their own kernel fork and are forbid from helping the other side. Everyone uses stuff developed on China, we are going to be very screwed.
There is no place they could move where there wouldn't be government oversight that would also give them the power to enforce their licensing agreements. If they moved to Russia, China or India they would be subject to other whims. There is no perfect country. All we can do is highlight the mistakes and decide if we still want to be part of something.
"United States based open source projects" are, therefore, not free software. American laws are becoming America's biggest export. By American standards, GPL software is American because it has Americans' code. What would happen if other countries copied this kind of extraterritorial legislation?
US extraterritorial laws are insane. If anyone on the planet makes transactions in USD or writes an email that somehow lands on an american server, the US Justice Dept unilaterally considers it's their jurisdiction. The FBI can investigate without you knowing it and then arrest you as soon as you set foot in North America. This has happened to a french businessman whose company was doing business with another company, none of those were american. But some american competitor took umbrage because they suspected there had been some shady transactions between the 2 non american companies, which would be anti concurrential. So they contacted the CIA to do some business spying. The CIA infiltrated the computers, and the french businessman was arrested and jailed. Nothing here was american except the fact the transaction happened in USD.
I already saw on the lists that some of those now ex-maintainers do not think they would return even if permitted and even if apologies were given for the humiliation they suffered, and also some existing/remaining maintainers wrote that they are having to reconsider whether they want to continue their involvement with the Linux project considering what has happened and _the way_ it happened with the shameful handling of this by the LF, along with GKH and Torvalds inflammatory statements they made, which in the case of Torvalds is borderline racism and his statement also breaches multiple points of the Linux Foundations own Code of Conduct.
Would be amazing if all of the LF falls apart and dissapears and Linus finally loses all his control over the development of Linux. He is one of the reasons why Linux never moved away from a niche product. He is one of the reasons Linux was never really able to mature and grow as an OS.
Yesterday, he was ok with Russian maintainers, but today he is not ok because of the war 80+ years ago. What about Germans? Just read last paragraph in Linus statement. Hypocrite.
Or the long list of NATO nationalities for their invasions of numerous countries, has he looked at the list of America's victims recently? It's particularly long.
"I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too." Did he also ban swedish developers per chance if he is such a profound fan of history?
If Linus knew some Ukrainian history, specifically what had happened there during the decade leading up to the invasion, then he might think a little differently. He appears to be just as ignorant as most folks, but at least he is willing to wear his pants on his head out in public where people can now see it.
Linus is a part of a Swedish-Finnish minority that lives in Finland. They are schooled to speak both Swedish and Finnish since a very early age. Even if he's Finnish, I would not think he has a huge issue with Swedes. Many of his ancestors came from Sweden originally. That's all my "history knowledge" about the topic.
Well ofcourse not, he doesn't get virtue signalling points for that.* *Or for banning brits either, even though they did put finnish coastal towns to the torch during the crimean war.
Stallman is probably pissing rage in Torvald's ear right now. Still won't change the consequences that FOSS has to avoid, or else end up like The Internet Archive!
If the Linux community stands for the values it proclaims, no matter how hard this will be, it would have gained tremendous respect. But when it bends, silently, hoping nobody will notice, it is just a humiliation and lost of respect. Everyone says "but it is a legally required to do so" etc... really, it becomes such when nobody challenges it. What prevents an executive order tomorrow that says "only US based developers are allowed", or even broader reaching "US based developers not allowed to contribute to open source, because this is considered export of IP" and countless more similar "executive order". What do you think happens when you open Pandora's box? Only one thing gets out? How silly and weak the community has become.
This. It's very concerning how such a simple thing as a US order can start a chain reaction destroying the very nature of open-source - software created by a collaborative effort, being above individuals, governments and politics. Each country can create its own OS with its own "rules" and "compliance", but is it really the world we want to live in?..
This isn't the slippery slope you think it is, unless you think it likely that every US ally will eventually become illegally invaded by their neighbors?
@@phoenix-tt It's not the order per se that's destroying the nature of open-source, it's the people like Torvalds mouthing off and the complacency of others... What a mess they've gotten themselves into...
@@jmxtoob I know of another country that illegally invades other countries quite often. Wanna take a guess which country that is? 🤔 (and I'm not even gonna compare the body counts...).
Finns like Linus conveniently forget the fact that Finland was a mere province of the Russian Empire for almost 200 years and that Finland sided with Axis Germany, Italy and Japan in WW2. So his techno-f a s c i s t jingoist discrimination is understandable.
@@Angus.MacGyver Typical self-centered Americana worldview, though I should not be surprised by insular, incestuous Republican ignorance. You do know there is an entire world outside your borders, right? I haven't watched CNN since zapping briefly over it 20 years ago when entering channels on a new TV.
@@PassifloraCerulea Well none of you are doing anything to stop the war in Ukraine, that's for sure. Maybe a small exception, but I doubt it's you with a rhetoric like that.
@@someverycool4552 Should probably come with some evidence if make claims like that. You really searched all Russian media and couldn't find any citizen with an anti war message? Look how many people marched against bombing Iraq and US did it anyway. If you are from US maybe you feel like it was defense against terrorist , if someone is from Russia maybe they feel the war is defense against Nato expansion. What does that have to do with maintainers to open source when state sponsored actors will use US identities.
Not sure if banning them from committing to the GPL projects would stop the Russian engineers from working on drones or whatever. But at least it is a "feels good" executive order. Best regards, a Russian bioinformatician in the US who will have a lot of visa issues in the next few months.
No I think we very much can blame the Linux Foundation for this. Making volunteer contributors do as much of the free work as possible until spitting them in the face at the last moment is not a good enough reason. Their actions are in clear violation of GPL 2 section 7 aka "open source or die". If anything this violates the very spirit of open source software. People from around the world built this software, it doesn't belong to just the U.S. it belongs to everybody. What this is is an aging geezer being afraid of getting a little bit poorer at the expense of his legacy. And the bloody nerve of GKH of even attempting to ban Huawei contributors, last year Huawei contributed more than 40% of all code changes to Linux Kernel. Free world, the bloody irony, just don't belong to the wrong race or don't think the wrong thoughts. Someone needs to fork this project fast with enough checks and balances in place to prevent such precedents in the future.
Section 7 "If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues)... If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all." This is about distribution, not contribution. Section 8 "If the distribution and/or use of the Program is restricted in certain countries either by patents or by copyrighted interfaces, the original copyright holder who places the Program under this License may add an explicit geographical distribution limitation excluding those countries, so that distribution is permitted only in or among countries not thus excluded. In such case, this License incorporates the limitation as if written in the body of this License." Which is also, still about distribution, but paints a picture as to how your argument doesn't hold water. Section 8 of the terms clearly addresses geographical restrictions. There is no clause in the terms stating you cannot remove a contributor from the project or geographically disqualify contributors, as if you wanted to, under gpl2, you could just not have any contributors, and others would instead have to fork the project and maintain their own version if they want to make changes. Linux is still open source, and this sanction is only getting in the way of Russian devs contributing to the Linux Foundation. They could totally fork it and maintain their own version until the sanction is lifted.
@@LokiScarletWasHere Sadly, that's as I expect will happen. Bright side or otherwise, I expect serious movement in the ARM and RISC-V versions of Linux!
@@LokiScarletWasHere what you are saying is basically this: Door is open for anybody to pass, but you can't pass you are banned, but still, door is open for ANYBODY to pass. Its just hypocricy. Racially discriminating people...
@@LokiScarletWasHere "Linux is still open source" Nope, It actually isn't. According to the open source initiative. Linux has violated the 5th rule. Which is "The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.".
Can't let the Mad Vlad Putler's minions of unprovoked aggression to corrupt the freedomness and peacelovingness of the codebase. LMAO! I've read one like this one before, hehe. The purity of the kernel must be preserved. The Linux will reign for a thousand releases. The anglos and their euroslaves must ensure the future of the superior operat
Imagine writing code for years for free and for the common good. And then they spit in your face and tell you it's time to study history. I bet that after a while, news about Russian hackers will become commonplace.
As young soul (during early 90's) I was thinking that by now we're gonna live free of nations, stupid laws, wars, hate, colors, political bs etc. etc...as one united species, simply as humankind. Sadly, it turns out to be exactly the opposite...such a naive young bloke me was
@@nask0 @nask0 >tard believes nations and wars wil disappear in 30 years, because too much glоbоhоmо propaganda >doesn't happen, because of course it won't >This damn ...checks notes... Linus Torvalds I think russians, invading multiple countries since 90s contributed much more to ruin of your commie delusion then some Finnish guy
@nask0 >tard believes nations and wars wil disappear in 30 years, because too much glоbоhоmо propaganda >doesn't happen, because of course it won't >This damn ...checks notes... Linus Torvalds I think russians, invading multiple countries since 90s contributed much more to ruin of your cоmmie delusion then some Finnish guy
@nask0 >tard believes nations and wars wil disappear in 30 years, because too much glоbоhоmо propaganda >doesn't happen, because of course it won't >This damn ...checks notes... Linus Torvalds I think russians, invаding multiple countries since 90s contributed much more to ruin of your commіе delusion then some Finnish guy
Stop deleting my comments. Finland was not on the side of the Hitler. It was invaded by USSR while they (USSR and Germany) was allies. Stop spreading nonsense and get some education.
We fought against Soviet Union (or call it 'russians'). A deal with nazis was made to have at least some ammo. It was about our existence. Its similar situation now in Ukraine, except that we are helping Ukraina now. And its a question of existence again. There is information available on this declaration of war subject matter now. At least they called it 'declaration of war', not 'special operation'.
Linus's communication style is very disrespectful to the Linux community and discouraging to the hardworking contributors. While he may be the creator of the original kernel, in no way does he seem as a good leader or representative of the community. The latest actions are doing nothing good but eroding the trust that has been built up over the years.
Thought the same thing when I saw that before.. I don't even buy products from Portland now due to not wanting to fund the rubbish.. No more leather man, Geber, Oregon Garden Tools etc.. Made in the US..
LMAO! Have you seen their dancing queen little presidentess or prime ministress? She has two moms, a live kid (female, of course), and no husband. LOL! Talked smack of her biological father after not attending his funeral. LOL! Got Russia to designate Finland as a valid target for a preemptive dissuasory nuclear target... Hint: you can find her spicy pictures and videos with her and her female friends at the Finnish white house on the dark web. She's past her prime but there's quite the catalog.😉 Slava Finnlaina! I love you Zelenskiiyyi! I love you Sanna!
The "why the legal ramifications exist" is politics. The legal ramifications are entirely a legal thing. Courts of Law, "a Nation of Law" don't _do_ justice *or* decency, and certainly are not *_ethical,_* because they are the opposite of those concepts.
Sanctions are just bitchy woke trash that’s intentionally crafted to hurt the citizens of the targeted country because their government hurt some government npc’s feelings. At their censorship expos they say it’s collective punishment to hurt the people so they overthrow the government but in the same breath, the psychos admit it never works yet they love canceling people and virtue signaling about how great they are, so the sanctions continue.
Thank you so much for covering this! This is an interesting historical precedent for the FOSS community that might change some things and raises a lot of questions, but for some reason it didn't get as much attention as I expected, some FOSS-related media just kinda ignored this
Вся эта абсурдная ситуация с Линуксом пахнет исключительно лицемерием, непомерной глупостью и откровенным нацизмом. Линус мог бы обыграть её по-разному: по-человечески поговорить с сотрудниками, молча сделать то, что он сделал, но нет - он предпочёл плюнуть людям в лицо. Это лишний раз доказывает, что, даже будучи отличным software engineer, бизнесменом или суперзвездой, человек не обязательно обладает способностями в других областях, даже в простом логическом мышлении.
Нет, Линус как раз и не мог сделать иначе. Он всегда был таким: "горячим финским парнем", который совершенно не умеет разговаривать и любитель накидать на вентинятор говнеца. Ничего не изменилось за последние лет двадцать в его стиле общения. Достаточно посмотреть все его километровые опусы на разные темы.
@@TheLonerD Брайан сказал об этом в видео - да, Линус он весь из себя такой дерзкий, за словами не следит и он такой был всегда. Но он своим идиотским комментарием просто дезинформировал людей. По факту, Линус действиетльно не мог поступить иначе, кроме как убрать из списка русские имена - требования Байдена. И пускай в своём очередном идиотском опусе он вклинивает какие-то нелепые исторические отсылки с киванием в свою национальность и с развешивает тупорылые ярлыки по типу "РАШН БОТС". Но ведь он попросту не обьяснил почему конкретно он поступил так с Русскими разработчиками, а ведь там всё максимально просто.
А мне вот интересно, под "знанием истории" этот "айм финниш" хотел напомнить о блокаде Ленинграда, в которой финны принимали активное участие под руководством немцев - что-то типа такого, да?
@@ГеоргийБерг-ю1е он вряд ли вообще думал о чем-то когда этот бред писал. Возможно где-то там он вспомнил про советско-финскую войну и решил просыпаться забыв про все детали
@@ГеоргийБерг-ю1е У русских с финами еще до второй мировой была интеерсная история. Русские дали финнам конституцию, защищали их язык и культуру. Может, линус возбудился, потому что он на самом деле не финн, а финский швед. Шведы хотели поглотить финляндию, но русские им не давали.
@@jonathont5570 I hope you're joking, are you really generalizing all Russians for what their government decides to do? what a joke. Many of these contributors have been contributing for decades and have contributed greatly to Linux, are you saying that programming for open source projects is aggression?
@@jonathont5570 The attitude and behavior have significantly worsened. They are now going against core principles, no better than those who banned Dostoevsky's books simply because he was from Russia. Other tips could have been done, but the level of egoism is too much.
@@nicoleking772 The email of Linus is the worst part of the whole story. Those maintainers have sacrificed a lot of their time and energy for the project, yet he treats and throws them away like garbage.
Go cry somewhere else 😂. Ходят тут, зигуют по-тихонечку, а потом всякие гадости делают, вроде xz utils. Совершенно справедливое решение, кто хотел, давно уже уехал и не имеет влияния от КГБ вертухаев. Не хочу, чтобы эти изгои с ресентиментом понаделали закладок в моём линупсе. 😊
"Let's one-sidedly ban a bunch of veteran Russian programmers who were responsible for maintaining spaghetticode in the kernel and know it better than 99.9% of world's programmers!" There's no way something goes wrong, right. Right...?
Won't be nearly the first area to be changed forever, also not even nearly the most important one. The world is already quite different today than it was 2 years ago
Linus Torvalds got brainwashed. I'm telling ya. Since he was forced to leave for some sensetivity course he came back changed. He is more woke than ever. It's sad but we lost him, boys.
You are delusional if you think everyone online that say he or she "is american", is indeed "american". There are millions of accounts on social media pretending to be of such and such country, including the US to cause as much havoc as possible. Trolls farms have been busted before from china and russia, some of them have actually been jdam into oblivion when they get too cocky and mount the werehouse outside their home base.
@@FodrMichalych 10,000x more western corporate bots than Russian ones. I’m surprised how many tech people ive met who have no idea that we’re the ones who make and operate that software on a planetary scale lol. Ive met lots of people who work at these places at different levels and most are amoral military veterans who generally despise average Americans
This sucks... we have some of the most gifted and talented people in Russia. The Rus-UA war is not our business. I live in Los Angeles, CA and we have much much more pressing issues in our country than Putin vs Zelensky.
Its ridiculous and hypocritical. Plenty of Russians tried moving to avoid being conscripted and a bunch of governments canceled their ability to get visas, But the entire thìrd world is allowed to come.
You had one of them messing with your internal politics and threatening to nuke you on a monthly basis. Also hurting your supply lines, engaging in hostile economic deals against your interests, stealing your technologies... Maybe you should care
@@Bokto1 "messing with your internal politic" The state department? "threatening to nuke you on a monthly basis" The neo cons? "Also hurting your supply lines" The covid lock downs? "engaging in hostile economic deals against your interests" The International Monetary Fund? "stealing your technologies" China?
@@Bokto1 its California, LA no less it's not the russians fucking things up. It's the enemy within causing the wests woes, Our īdí0tíç 2 party uniparty system and midwits/pedants are also also a contributing factor, we UnIronically need a multi faction coalition system As for the nukes they're the emptyest of empty threats, It's like the infamous *"China's final warning"*
Sanction people solely according to the nationality? This is the most bizarre news in the open source community. I am glad they haven't done anything to the Jewish programmers yet.
you mean Israeli developers? if sanctions were consistent rather than being based on a biased selection of allies and enemies, Israeli devs would also be shut out.
Straight up naz*, he even brought up "history knowledge" by which he ment those times when Finland WITH Germany were holding three-years blockade around Leningrad - k**ling hundreds of thousands of soviet civilians. Or he ment something else..? 🤔 Well I'm as Saint-P's (Leningrad in 1941) inhabitant has this kind of "history knowledge"!
@@NotMarkKnopfler isnt the whole russophobia bs getting old. You do realise Russians live in western countries for decades and they haven't experienced issues of harassment for being Russian. You can't use xenophobia or russophobia against the people who rightly criticise the actions of the kremlin anymore that you can use xinophobia or anglophobia for someone who criticises the actions of China or us. It just makes you look stupid for doing so
@@pgpython I'll agree with you on that point, the moment you provide me some examples of other countries citizens treated in the same way, for their government military actions. You can start by providing me the list of sanctions applied on the US\UK citizens for their full support of illegal Iraq invasion that took something akin to 20 times more civilian casualties than current Ukraine conflict so far.
I guess the BRICS meeting in Kazan (currently ongoing) should start discussing moving Open Source out of USA management, like they are doing with SWIFT message exchange.
BRICS only goal is to punish the big bad US, which is never a long term successful idea. Not because it won't work out, but because it won't be viable for most countries in BRICS.
Lmao. B for lua, R for forced labor commits, I for per-line-billing, C for erasing commit history of political prisoners, S for energy efficient code. Maybe they even run their SWIFT on open source hardware!
please do, so many seems to say so like is a bad thing, i think it would be great to have some real competition, after all is what drive most innovation, no? Maybe they would push more Rust to have their system safer from western hacker, maybe they would try zig, maybe they will add their own GPU and CPU (well, china at least) and so on.. it would be GREAT!
If accepting code from a nation is somehow an endorsement of what military actions that nation takes, why does Linus accept code from the US? Or Rwanda? Or Somalia? With Linus's statement on the issue I can only assume he fully endorses the military actions of each of these nations in the past year.
Obviously he's from Finland and it is an act of self preservation and I'm from a neighboring country that is bordering with Russia so I don't mind any of this. I do think Russia has to be stopped no matter what. Once we've stopped Russia, we can think about everything else.
Still not entirely clear why a law that prevents investment and services from being given to Russia should prevent Russians from giving services away for free to Americans???
Because 1) the decree (not law) is broad enough to forbid all contracts relating to software and 2) legal precedent said that conforming to a license such as the GPL counts as entering a legal contract.
Because that's how US sanctions work. They are not subtle, they are not just, they are sanctions, they are designed to hurt, just like american bombs, no matter the "collateral damage".
This right here. I don't see how banning Russian contributors is accomplishing anything useful. We know there are lots of eyes on the code, and the people contributing to the kernel have been doing so for YEARS without issue. So what, we think they are now all of a sudden going to become 'bad guys'? Maybe, but exceedingly unlikely. So what are we thinking to accomplish here? It's not like folks in Russia can't download the code, put their own stuff into it, and continue to use it. The only thing this accomplishes is to deprive everyone ELSE of the contributions of these Russian coders. And even if there is a ban in place, all that needs to happen is for some Russian coder to put out some code that solves a problem, and someone ELSE will take it and contribute it to the kernel. All this really does is make the U.S. look stupid, IMO (not like we actually needed any help in that department to start with...).
@@mihalious why do you want more? Like im not a fan of the Russian government or anything but why be hateful of anyone who happens to have been born there? This kinda mindset only leads to humanity repeating the same mistakes
@@tux_the_astronaut The problem is you even trying to logically argue with a person who is writing such racist statements on the internet. Like why argue with him? Will you argue with someone who says "racism against black people is not strong enough"? Those are morally equivalent statements. This just shows how really strong the hate towards Russians is in the west.
@@mihalious I agree. "Phobia" means "fear." That is, upon mentioning Russia, everyone unfriendly to Russians should scream, weep and hide under their tables.
Linus Torvalds has always been a moron. Andrew Tanenbaum was right from the very start and Linus wouldn't listen to him back then. Nothing has changed.
@@muroihenwald3396 You can look up the Torvalds/Tanenbaum debate if you are interested, but basically it was a debate over microkernels vs monolithic kernels. The broader debate is about complex multilayered software vs simple; the more lines of code, the more opportunities for bugs. This is still true (and it's what I mean by him being right), and it is a big part of the reason why modern software is terrible. The reason Linus wanted a monolithic kernel is supposedly because of performance (a legitimate issue at the time but one that was solved by the L4 microkernel). But the reality is that he was never really making an operating system for other people - this was a toy for him to play with. It was only successful because of timing, as BSD was locked up in the AT&T lawsuit.
@@CyrilCommando Although it has a hybrid kernel since Apple moved the networking stack out, it's not really a microkernel. And the rest of the software stack is the same sort of legacy BSD junk, unfortunately
While yes they're complying, I can't help but wonder if it's something they've always wanted to do since the start of the war. This is the perfect excuse to do it "Oh we're just complying with sanctions, not discriminating"
Maybe this will eventually boost popularity of more modular approaches, e.g. microkernels with drivers and file systems and so on as independent pieces of software? Then every user can decide whether he wants to install drivers from Russian hackers or from NSA employees.
Linus basically being like, "Weren't you paying attention to something a president in a country did two years ago that affects people in a different country?"
Lel like the Linus was paying attention himself. I think it's the first point he ever made about the situation and then he suggests everybody watch the news. Time will tell so I think it would be alright if we let Linus actions speak for themselves.
Linus since he wants to talk about history knowledge. who did Finland back in WW2? was they not aligned with a failed painter who became leader of a certain nation who started a pretty big war which killed millions starting in 1939?
I think you glazed over the most interesting part. That part about lawyers telling to say about "complience" instead... Why? This non-transparency is actually what makes a nothingburger into real issue.
Because it's "justice" based on politics, aka when it comes to international affaires, the US justice department largely loses their neutrality and becomes an arm of the executive branch.
@@lolilollolilol7773 what are you talking about? The sanctions are written and public. They have almost the same weight as a law. Neutral or not it doesn't matter, I see no reason for lawyers to hide that they are in fact following them.
@@ArturdeSousaRocha Let me enlighten you: There is a reason why there are 10s of thousands of Russians (and Ukrainians) in Serbia and the Microsoft branch in Serbia was 3rd or 4th best branch and that was before all the Russians came here.
Some Fins are like that. As I mentioned above his country fought alongside Nazi germany against the Soviet union and some of them still hold a huge grudge against Russia..way before 2022 also
The Fins actively try to maintain the anti-Russian hate. It's disgusting. That government fell a long time ago. Punishing people who live in the same geographical area is just silly.
Why are not US programmers banned? Never forget what they did to Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya, Gaza and more. Hypocrisis at its finest. I am all for bashing war-mongering regimes, but if you have any kind of moral standard you can’t pick and choose who you want to sanction. You should apply the same standards to everyone.
Because like it or not the US either directly or indirectly owns most of the planet therefore history is written in a US favorable narrative and therefore history won't see any of what you just said that way. Edit: Also Linus lives in the US.
Why linux have so much drama this year, as if they dont have enough problem that make a lot of people left the Kernel already, and I swear every drama I heard recently all related to Linus 😂
If that's how people are treated when contributing to open source projects, based in the US, then the rest of the world should probably ban contributing to these projects until these open source foundations move to Switzerland (for example). I would personally not feel comfortable being regarded as a criminal for just wanting to help promote an open source project. This completely defeats the purpose of open source. In what seams to be the worst case scenario, if there is really no other choice, the kernel should be forked. It is the open source way of throwing away your employer, and get rid of old attached strings. As of now I will NOT contribute to any US based open source project (its not worth the legal risk, even if I am not Russian).
Let's not forget the fact that Finland before and during WW2 were on the side of fascist Germany, Italy and Japan, while Russia was fighting against them. And now, of course, all the Nordic states are mere vassal states of the US. Linus may be a great programmer, but he's clearly ignorant and lacks enough knowledge about other topics. Arrogance and the smug certainty of ignorance go hand in hand.
Thus, the United States forces specialists from other countries to change their citizenship and appropriate other people's technologies for themselves. This is not the first time this has happened. More recently, there was a case with a Chinese specialist and a lot of people before him. He is obliged to transfer all his works to the ownership of the United States when changing his citizenship.
It's actually a lot more complicated than what you've said. First of all, there are sanctions in place not only by the United States government, but also the European Union, Switzerland, Japan, Norway, and probably other countries that I'm not aware of. Secondly, it's not also about code, but "technical assistance". Exactly what technical assistance means is a legal question, and I'm not a lawyer, and even if I were, I am not *your* lawyer. So giving legal advice (applying specific fact patterns to law) is not something I'm not going to do. Third of all, there are various exceptions that apply to different sanctions regimes, and even with respect to a single country, like the US, the sanctions program that applies to Huawei is different from sanctioned entities which are directly or indirectly controlled by the Russian Military-Industrial Complex. (It also gets dicey when the sanctioned entities are trying to evade the sanctions by trying to mislead whether or not the work is being done on behalf of a sanctioned entity or not --- but if the software support for the hardware in question is only being used in missiles being flung by Russia at Uktranian targets, and the hardware is designed and manufactured by a sanctioned entity ---- I think you can guess what the presumption will be by the courts as to whether or not the sanctions apply and whether you might be considered as lending technical assistance to that sanctioned entity.) Again, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you are programmer or open source project based in Europe, or really, any country, you should consult a lawyer to see what your country's laws and regulations might be. Also note that depending on the country, ignorance may not be an excuse. Not all laws require wilful intent in order for the civil or criminal penalties to be applicable.
This is not great news and also put into perspective the freedom of GNU in question as well. Perhaps it is time to begin using decentralized development solution in certain cases. Even anonymity and peer-to-peer platforms could play a role on that as well, just like back in the 2000s. It may slowdown things a bit, but I guess Linux and other open source development should be above nations or identity or politics. Just some good freaking coding. That's all we need.
The video is excellent: it has a lot of valuable information, and the analysis you do is very comprehensive. I did something very similar recently, but not based on your video, but translating an article directly from Russian language to Spanish from OpenNET, and also citing other sources. I am recommending the "Entropía binaria" community to watch this video too, as it is a great contribution to understanding the impact of this un-event globally. Thank you very much. I will be subscribed to your channel from now on. ¡Greetings from Uruguay and great job!
It's already done, because Linux kernel stopped taking contributions from Rusians, so Rusians were forced to make a fork and, as far, as I know, they still synching the changes made in the mainstream kernel, so it manages to stay compatible, so far.
Do you know if the BSDs have also removed Russian devs? I believe OpenBSD Foundation is from Canada and I don't know where FreeBSD and NetBSD are based?
The projects are based in the US, however, unlike Linux, the FreeBSD project is a separate entity than the foundation. This is clearly stated in our bylaws. The FreeBSD Foundation owns and maintains the trademark, does development work and supplies the project with money for infra (and some marketing), nothing else. It’s a completely different situation in FreeBSD/NetBSD land.
that's actually a bad question because Huawei is a company and Russian is a nationality banning a nationality is not the same as banning (or partially banning) a company
Are they banning those who can't be named as well? Oh no they own everything lol including this platform that's why I need to speak in riddles to use my right of free speech.
"In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation." - Linux Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct
Although I'm not surprised Linus went full racist there, he is Finish after all and there's some history. I would however expect him to be more intelligent and have developed more tolerance than that during his life. Pretty poor form and disappointing.
@@eugenemedvediev ok. This is a pretty bad take, since it basically means we can never recover from history. Historical slaves (everyone) can hate historical slavers (everyone, especially the Arabs). Indigenous folks can hate their invaders. China can hate the West and Japan. The US can hate the UK, Germany, Japan, Italy, etc. When does the hate stop? To you, it never will. I hope we don't live in your world. It would be terrible.
Sanctioning anybody is such a loser move. Especially larger players like China/India/Russia etc. Does anybody actually think sanctions will change anything, or is it just a feel-good empty gesture?
sanctioning russia will decrease the well-being of the middle strata of our people. it doesn't change much but discontent rises slightly. now, as for the main mass of people, the lower strata, for them there is a little crisis of well-being, but for what reason it exists i don't know.
@@eugenemedvedievonly ones in panic mode are people whose funding was cut off due to cross-border transactions becoming more difficult. And once sanctions come into play some seem to immediately forget that when deals with Russia happened, Russia was not in a position of power. So if it got benefits at all, it received far less than European partners.
i miss the days of free software being based and skirting US government desires like PGP source code being published as a book to avoid being labeled as munitions
If Linus is serious about future of his OS he should immediately start looking into moving this operation in to a neutral country, something line UAE, Qatar, Brazil, South Africa, India or some other similarly suitable country that is capable to maintaining normal relations with both new emerging global political blocks.
Why not Switzerland? Almost all the "neutral" countries you listed (except SA, to an extent) are oppressive anti-privacy, anti-freedom-of-speach regimes. Besides, Brazil and India are in pro-Russian block. What the sense in moving the project from one politically-biased environment to another, just flipping the political polarity? Would be an absolutely nonsensical move.
@@comesignotus9888 Switzerland no longer passes as even remotely neutral country. They are US client state that will submit to state department demands even when doing so harms Switzerland's economic interest or safety of it's citizens. Country like that cannot be taken as safe place to run global business.
@@comesignotus9888 Also claiming Brazil and India are "pro Russian" kinda tell more about you then about Brazil or India. Brazil and India are primary concerned about interest of Brazil's and India's busses elite that likes to maintain market access to as many couturiers as possible, instead of limiting themselves only to N American and W European markets like Anglo oligarchy would like them to do. That makes them economically invested in maintaining neutral status instead subjugating themsalves to state department dictates. And this makes them exactly the countries to be considered if one wants to run global business without some White Hose clown dictating to them who they can work with. Fact that they are able to shrug off US demands and keep trade with Russia open only increases their credibility as neutral party.
I am not surprised at all. Soon Chinese will be banned. It makes sense to fork Linux and start maintaining a separate kernel for the East, since soon there will be different hardware to write drivers for. As the West-East war goes on, globalization will end and the East is likely to have different CPUs, GPUs and chipsets. As to what is "open" and what is "free", just forget about it. Nothing is free.
They aren't just as bad. In case of Linux, you own it just as much as Linus Torvalds. This is about their repo and their trademarks, not Linux as a codebase and as an actual kernel. No one really "owns" the codebase
Jokes aside, i'm totally with you Bryan, from a legal point of view they probably did a prudent move, but the communication part was a total disaster that will have many repercussions in the years to come.
Just as everybody that disagrees with you, right? I'm not saying happened was fair but name calling just makes you look silly. Or maybe that's just how you were raised, just accusing insulting people and then crying when they retaliate. Also, nice AI-generated profile picture, russbot.
Relinquish as in delete the name from the copyright? Even if someone else bumps the copyright year? So these people are now “unpersoned” from the list of names on each file? If their names are on the files and the year gets bumped, does that mean they are still associated and complying with the license? Not to be pedantic… bc it seems like it is happening, regardless of whoever is driving it.
My concern is the it sets a bad precedent. I don’t have any skin in the game here though. I do detest the politicization of open source, regardless of whose authority is ultimately responsible.
Well it's a classic example of 'You either die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain'. Now all of a sudden Linus goes after the Russians for historical reasons? Come on man! =)
Well, to be fair, it is a good thing to learn about history. I wonder why he waited until now though because otherwise why did he accept Russian maintainers before in the first place?
Americans are very obedient people. They ask all the wrong questions - like not "why should I obey these 'sanctions'", but "why do you not impose sanctions on somebody else". Just wrap this up in I amendment case - Russians "publish" their code and you incorporate it into your project.
Don't label all of us with such a blanket statement. Many of us are unhappy with what our Govt is currently doing which is why the current administration got voted out. In fact a Democratic Candidate has not lost so badly in nearly 20 years. Most of the Country is not happy with the current administration.
@@FantomMisfit It was more general statement. Demand for the president not to have such abilities! Even the name of it - Executive Order. "You are not here to order me, f...er, I'm a free man" - that is my attitude. And you just accept this servitude. At least it should require normal law to be passed a not just a whim of a president. As to your election system, I'm also not impressed. First of all you have "winner takes all" system, so theoretically those "landslides" are possible with like tens of votes difference between candidates. I even heard that electors are not bound by your vote. So basically you (US citizens) are put in a "straitjacket" and basically cannot do "jack-s...". For example - you wanted an end to UA war? Tough luck - he puts the same warmongers that Kamala would. So still billions for that war.
@@FantomMisfit There is absolutely no possibility of this. Simply the interests of two countries are perceived (by the elites) to be totally opposite. It is like Cuban Missile Crisis - only difference is that Cuba is 2000km from Washington and Charkov or Sumy are 600 km from Moscow. Second difference is that US views itself as proprietor of the world and USSR just wanted to put a hedgehog in US's pants.
So then, soliciting Ukraine to join NATO wasn't "American Aggression"? It's not like we weren't warned against it, many times, which is a totally valid and fair request. As valid as "hey USSR plz don't put missiles in Cuba, on our doorstep, thx".
@@RockBrentwood and that’s exactly why we have the current conflict.. you can’t talk like that concerning security with a country that lost the largest proportion of the 27 million in ww2. You can’t put a country in a box like that without sparks.. and sparks is what we see.
@@RockBrentwood and btw (to correct you) Uncle Sam has NOT refused NATO admission to Ukraine. US officials (Blinkin for one) have said Ukraine is on a course towards NATO membership.. so do us a favour and catchup on your reading huh?
@@RockBrentwood Wow, nice cop-bootlicking video you got there--not surprised at all that you're an Israel supporter. Enjoy watching your fake rules-based order crumble.
Standard russian propaganda. If that was the case they would attack Finland and Sweden. russia attacks only if you're outside of NATO. Neither Georgia nor Ukraine would want to go to NATO otherwise. Ukraine wanted to join EU and showed middlefinger to putin and yanukovich, that's when russia attacked. Surely afterwards Ukraine wanted to join NATO.
Well... thats how my last hope that linus is gonna say something more sensible goes up in flames. I guess its time to more seriously consider supporting other kernel.
@@HksjJkdkd I don't know about bsd flavors, but gnu hurd is too stale at this point. I think redox is more up the alley of OS'es/kernels to consider, atleast if you are going for micro-kernel. It seems to be "mature enough" to atleast try, and probably ripe for collaborative effort. Embedded rust seems to be improving at astounding pace in general(from bootloaders, libraries and kernels down to tooling, even low-end mcus toolchains and libraries are availible) to, so it seems like a good time investment overall(though the "main" rust dev team kinda scares me with all their drama and none sense)
As much as I support sanctions against Russia by nations, the FOSS community is only anchored in a single country by a technicality. It is an international collaboration and it's one of the few places that could build bridges instead of burning them. I get that they have little choice from a legal stand point but from Linus' statement they would not try to find alternatives, even if they could.
Since when is the law something objective you can do nothing about? What are courts and lawyers for if not to fight the subjective interpretation of the law from somebody else? There's nothing the Linux Foundation can do about it? The USA government didn't even charge them with anything. If anybody claims the Linux Foundation violated some regulation, the onus is on them to prove it in a court of law. The Linux Foundation doesn't have to prove anything, because they are deemed not guilty by default. What are we even talking about here?
To be clear this was never voted into law just one senile old man abusing his power and making unconstitutional executive orders. Don't worry were getting rid of him. His administration is gone in January.
Why did you make conclusion that act 40171 prohibits getting commits from Russian programmers? Seem it prohibits only supply to Russia, but nothing said about getting something from Russia.
I’m not a lawyer, but afaik it’s because of how the GPL license is being interpreted by US courts. You’re effectively doing business with Russia/Russians if you allow them to commit.
@@cd2320 The Linux development system is a feudal one. Linus is king, Greg Kroah-Hartman is the prince-heir, and all the other maintainers are dukes, counts, barons, and knights, each having first oversight of some kernel system, subsystem, file, or driver. The problem isn't is the GPL in accepting or pulling in patches from compatibly sourced material. That's unlikely to be direct enough to trigger sanction penalties. The potential issue is that the maintainer position involved delegated authority and close cooperation with other kernel maintainers. This authority and experience has a high economic value to companies the rely on the ongoing development of Linux in their products and processes. Why else would these sanctioned Russian companies pay a salary to these maintainers?
This is sad. It turns out that the free and open spirit of Linux were just a mere symbolism.
Linus was always a grifter. Which is why he and his crew sandbagged GPL3 for the sake of patent trolls.
This is bad too. Very bad. We China Russia and other countries will form a new os eco system and abandon Linux Windows and other which are under the evil influence from the US government.
@@StrongmanLi-pz7sl good, less backdoors in ecosystem that actually matters
@@Bokto1 Bro. You know that all the forced backdoors are from 3 letter agencies in the US right
This is how sanctions make us weaker.
Russian programmers are banned. But what about the code added to Linux by Russian programmers? Was it banned as well?
Check the names. All their contribution was about the local distros, cpus and utils, no one uses outside anyway. 🤷
@@Burnsie
One of the removed contributors wrote a driver for some arm-based acer notebook, that's actually recent. The copyright and the code is in place, it's just removed from the MAINTAINERS file.
@@Burnsieyou should check the contribution of russian programmers.
I am waiting for some genetic nanophage that seems to only affect the Russians in 50 years. Because everything seems to be going in that direction with how much they are being unpersonned. Not even the North Koreans/Iranians have experienced this level of craziness and they are supposed to be evil too.
@@Burnsie Dude, you're grossly delusional.
Russian programmers are among the BIGGEST contributors to pretty much ALL opensource code in the world.
For LINUX, probably around 20% of the core code is by Russians.
actually, this puts the neutrality of linux under question. maybe, they should be based somewhere, where developers will not be baned from contributing based on their nationality. anyway, hope there will be a fork of the linux kernel that does not comply with the sanctions. and, maybe, also include zfs drivers
It is not the country the problem, it is the people who control the project. Everything Linux is for the users is not what it is for the foundation. The foundation only concern is getting money at all costs. The kernel also was never neutral, because Linus was dictating how should the project go on and what is allowed and what is not. The issue currently is that we see Linus's money hungry side.
tbf the BDFL model of the linux kernel is still superior to anything what any software foundation or organisation have achieved. Believe me, if the linux kernel ever somehow got sold or gifted to a large opaque body of people no one knows or has ever heard of, it would only get even worse then what it is today.
One of the worse things that could happen here is if Russia and China start working on their own kernel fork and are forbid from helping the other side. Everyone uses stuff developed on China, we are going to be very screwed.
LOL. If anything this ban closes question about neutrality.
There is no place they could move where there wouldn't be government oversight that would also give them the power to enforce their licensing agreements. If they moved to Russia, China or India they would be subject to other whims. There is no perfect country. All we can do is highlight the mistakes and decide if we still want to be part of something.
"United States based open source projects" are, therefore, not free software. American laws are becoming America's biggest export.
By American standards, GPL software is American because it has Americans' code. What would happen if other countries copied this kind of extraterritorial legislation?
US extraterritorial laws are insane. If anyone on the planet makes transactions in USD or writes an email that somehow lands on an american server, the US Justice Dept unilaterally considers it's their jurisdiction. The FBI can investigate without you knowing it and then arrest you as soon as you set foot in North America. This has happened to a french businessman whose company was doing business with another company, none of those were american. But some american competitor took umbrage because they suspected there had been some shady transactions between the 2 non american companies, which would be anti concurrential. So they contacted the CIA to do some business spying. The CIA infiltrated the computers, and the french businessman was arrested and jailed. Nothing here was american except the fact the transaction happened in USD.
That's why the planet should ban those guys completely.
sovereign Internet and sovereign OS like in North Korea
@@lolilollolilol7773 The Assange case defined that non American citizens (and journalists) have no free speech rights when publishing from Europe.
Nothing. Laws only make sense if they are enforceable. Can Finland enforce laws outside Finland? No, but US can.
I already saw on the lists that some of those now ex-maintainers do not think they would return even if permitted and even if apologies were given for the humiliation they suffered, and also some existing/remaining maintainers wrote that they are having to reconsider whether they want to continue their involvement with the Linux project considering what has happened and _the way_ it happened with the shameful handling of this by the LF, along with GKH and Torvalds inflammatory statements they made, which in the case of Torvalds is borderline racism and his statement also breaches multiple points of the Linux Foundations own Code of Conduct.
Would be amazing if all of the LF falls apart and dissapears and Linus finally loses all his control over the development of Linux. He is one of the reasons why Linux never moved away from a niche product. He is one of the reasons Linux was never really able to mature and grow as an OS.
You perfectly know that racism against White people is allowed.
Linus is destroying open source
@@Stinktierchen But linux is not a niche product.
Breaches the Linux Foundation Code of Conduct??
I am the Linux Foundation Code of Conduct!!
- Linus probably
Yesterday, he was ok with Russian maintainers, but today he is not ok because of the war 80+ years ago. What about Germans?
Just read last paragraph in Linus statement.
Hypocrite.
Or the long list of NATO nationalities for their invasions of numerous countries, has he looked at the list of America's victims recently? It's particularly long.
Well Germany was on the side of Finland in WW2 lol, but that’s inconvenient for him
@@cd2320 They tried to trash the place while retreating
Finland was on Nazy side in WW2 as you know.
he mad because the soviets shat on them along with their nazi allies
"I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too."
Did he also ban swedish developers per chance if he is such a profound fan of history?
His mother tongue is Swedish😂
@@PremiumGerman So? He is still 100% Finnish. Language does not equal nationality.
If Linus knew some Ukrainian history, specifically what had happened there during the decade leading up to the invasion, then he might think a little differently. He appears to be just as ignorant as most folks, but at least he is willing to wear his pants on his head out in public where people can now see it.
Linus is a part of a Swedish-Finnish minority that lives in Finland. They are schooled to speak both Swedish and Finnish since a very early age. Even if he's Finnish, I would not think he has a huge issue with Swedes. Many of his ancestors came from Sweden originally. That's all my "history knowledge" about the topic.
Well ofcourse not, he doesn't get virtue signalling points for that.*
*Or for banning brits either, even though they did put finnish coastal towns to the torch during the crimean war.
I think Stallman would never do that.
I hope so
Stallman is probably pissing rage in Torvald's ear right now. Still won't change the consequences that FOSS has to avoid, or else end up like The Internet Archive!
Stallman invented GPL, so I'm not sure how is he going to navigate this situation.
Let's see how Emacs and other projects associated with Stallman handle this
Poor guy is recovering from cancer, I don't think he has the strength or energy to do anything about it :/
If the Linux community stands for the values it proclaims, no matter how hard this will be, it would have gained tremendous respect.
But when it bends, silently, hoping nobody will notice, it is just a humiliation and lost of respect.
Everyone says "but it is a legally required to do so" etc... really, it becomes such when nobody challenges it. What prevents an executive order tomorrow that says "only US based developers are allowed", or even broader reaching "US based developers not allowed to contribute to open source, because this is considered export of IP" and countless more similar "executive order". What do you think happens when you open Pandora's box? Only one thing gets out? How silly and weak the community has become.
This. It's very concerning how such a simple thing as a US order can start a chain reaction destroying the very nature of open-source - software created by a collaborative effort, being above individuals, governments and politics.
Each country can create its own OS with its own "rules" and "compliance", but is it really the world we want to live in?..
This isn't the slippery slope you think it is, unless you think it likely that every US ally will eventually become illegally invaded by their neighbors?
@@phoenix-tt It's not the order per se that's destroying the nature of open-source, it's the people like Torvalds mouthing off and the complacency of others... What a mess they've gotten themselves into...
@@jmxtoob I know of another country that illegally invades other countries quite often. Wanna take a guess which country that is? 🤔 (and I'm not even gonna compare the body counts...).
Will you pay to file the lawsuit against the executive order and hire lawyers to explain to the judge that the order is bad?
It is just so painful to see the man you had admiration for turn out to be a shallow hypocrite.
don't meet your heroes
Finns like Linus conveniently forget the fact that Finland was a mere province of the Russian Empire for almost 200 years and that Finland sided with Axis Germany, Italy and Japan in WW2. So his techno-f a s c i s t jingoist discrimination is understandable.
@@Angus.MacGyver historically illiterate take, but you do you
@@MrSmokinDragonAnother CNN propaganda victim.
@@Angus.MacGyver Typical self-centered Americana worldview, though I should not be surprised by insular, incestuous Republican ignorance. You do know there is an entire world outside your borders, right? I haven't watched CNN since zapping briefly over it 20 years ago when entering channels on a new TV.
linux contributors have to pay what "russia" did to "finland", that's stupid, linus is going senile
So... contributing to open source is aggression?
Yeah, way to paint all Russian citizens with the same brush 😒
@@PassifloraCerulea Well none of you are doing anything to stop the war in Ukraine, that's for sure. Maybe a small exception, but I doubt it's you with a rhetoric like that.
@@someverycool4552 Should probably come with some evidence if make claims like that. You really searched all Russian media and couldn't find any citizen with an anti war message? Look how many people marched against bombing Iraq and US did it anyway. If you are from US maybe you feel like it was defense against terrorist , if someone is from Russia maybe they feel the war is defense against Nato expansion. What does that have to do with maintainers to open source when state sponsored actors will use US identities.
A new form of microaggression
Not sure if banning them from committing to the GPL projects would stop the Russian engineers from working on drones or whatever. But at least it is a "feels good" executive order.
Best regards,
a Russian bioinformatician in the US who will have a lot of visa issues in the next few months.
No I think we very much can blame the Linux Foundation for this. Making volunteer contributors do as much of the free work as possible until spitting them in the face at the last moment is not a good enough reason. Their actions are in clear violation of GPL 2 section 7 aka "open source or die". If anything this violates the very spirit of open source software. People from around the world built this software, it doesn't belong to just the U.S. it belongs to everybody. What this is is an aging geezer being afraid of getting a little bit poorer at the expense of his legacy. And the bloody nerve of GKH of even attempting to ban Huawei contributors, last year Huawei contributed more than 40% of all code changes to Linux Kernel. Free world, the bloody irony, just don't belong to the wrong race or don't think the wrong thoughts. Someone needs to fork this project fast with enough checks and balances in place to prevent such precedents in the future.
Section 7
"If, as a consequence of a court judgment or allegation of patent infringement or for any other reason (not limited to patent issues)... If you cannot distribute so as to satisfy simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the Program at all."
This is about distribution, not contribution.
Section 8
"If the distribution and/or use of the Program is restricted in certain countries either by patents or by copyrighted interfaces, the original copyright holder who places the Program under this License may add an explicit geographical distribution limitation excluding those countries, so that distribution is permitted only in or among countries not thus excluded. In such case, this License incorporates the limitation as if written in the body of this License."
Which is also, still about distribution, but paints a picture as to how your argument doesn't hold water. Section 8 of the terms clearly addresses geographical restrictions.
There is no clause in the terms stating you cannot remove a contributor from the project or geographically disqualify contributors, as if you wanted to, under gpl2, you could just not have any contributors, and others would instead have to fork the project and maintain their own version if they want to make changes.
Linux is still open source, and this sanction is only getting in the way of Russian devs contributing to the Linux Foundation. They could totally fork it and maintain their own version until the sanction is lifted.
@@LokiScarletWasHere Sadly, that's as I expect will happen. Bright side or otherwise, I expect serious movement in the ARM and RISC-V versions of Linux!
@@LokiScarletWasHere what you are saying is basically this:
Door is open for anybody to pass, but you can't pass you are banned, but still, door is open for ANYBODY to pass. Its just hypocricy. Racially discriminating people...
@@LokiScarletWasHere "Linux is still open source"
Nope, It actually isn't. According to the open source initiative.
Linux has violated the 5th rule. Which is "The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.".
@@nono-yw3tv the license, in fact, does not
The russophobia is real. 😂
Can't let the Mad Vlad Putler's minions of unprovoked aggression to corrupt the freedomness and peacelovingness of the codebase. LMAO!
I've read one like this one before, hehe. The purity of the kernel must be preserved. The Linux will reign for a thousand releases. The anglos and their euroslaves must ensure the future of the superior operat
We must secure the existence of our kernel and a future for white code. 😂
Censor THIS ONE 👇, bucko!
poo-tin did it real 🤣
Good
Land of the Free and Home of the Brave? What a joke.
Imagine writing code for years for free and for the common good. And then they spit in your face and tell you it's time to study history.
I bet that after a while, news about Russian hackers will become commonplace.
Imagine studying history at that point, and realising who Finland was friends with back then...
@@paulkustov7067 The guy with the funny moustache
@ootia I thіnk you left out some details in between "writing code for years" and "spіt іn thе fасе"
@@paulkustov7067 refugees welcome, soon
@@paulkustov7067 is 3 days operation going with us right now.
As young soul (during early 90's) I was thinking that by now we're gonna live free of nations, stupid laws, wars, hate, colors, political bs etc. etc...as one united species, simply as humankind. Sadly, it turns out to be exactly the opposite...such a naive young bloke me was
If they don't keep us busy fighting each other, we might start asking questions about the current distribution of wealth...
@@nask0
@nask0
>tard believes nations and wars wil disappear in 30 years, because too much glоbоhоmо propaganda
>doesn't happen, because of course it won't
>This damn ...checks notes... Linus Torvalds
I think russians, invading multiple countries since 90s contributed much more to ruin of your commie delusion then some Finnish guy
@nask0
>tard believes nations and wars wil disappear in 30 years, because too much glоbоhоmо propaganda
>doesn't happen, because of course it won't
>This damn ...checks notes... Linus Torvalds
I think russians, invading multiple countries since 90s contributed much more to ruin of your cоmmie delusion then some Finnish guy
@nask0
>tard believes nations and wars wil disappear in 30 years, because too much glоbоhоmо propaganda
>doesn't happen, because of course it won't
>This damn ...checks notes... Linus Torvalds
I think russians, invаding multiple countries since 90s contributed much more to ruin of your commіе delusion then some Finnish guy
@@tyemich8820 american conservative moment
“Free” software my ass…
How is he able to do this though? Couldn't developers just cut him out and go on without him. Why do they need Linus?
13:17 They've waited for two years until Linus finishes reading a history book and decides the fate of the kernel😂
😆😅🤣😂
Here's an idea fork Linux and give the kernel a new name. For inclusivity reasons I would call it UNIfied linuX or UNIX, problem solved.
Isn't the name UNIX trademarked? But apart from that, the suggestion is perfect.
Ok, hear me out, LinUwUx.
Let's stick it to Torvalds and just call it Russix. 🇷🇺🫡
@@mortadelaok lUwUx
@@mortadelaok Howz Bout...LinusFreeLinux?
Fun fact: Finland fought on the side of the N@zis in WWII. The UK declared war on Finland in December 1941.
BS. GTFO. USSR was ally with Hitler in WWII when they invaded Poland.
It is the same now 😅 only that UK it’s also with the enemy
Stop deleting my comments. Finland was not on the side of the Hitler. It was invaded by USSR while they (USSR and Germany) was allies. Stop spreading nonsense and get some education.
@@FodrMichalych Invaded for a reason. And the reason was simple: Finland was de-facto allied with Hitler.
We fought against Soviet Union (or call it 'russians'). A deal with nazis was made to have at least some ammo. It was about our existence. Its similar situation now in Ukraine, except that we are helping Ukraina now. And its a question of existence again. There is information available on this declaration of war subject matter now. At least they called it 'declaration of war', not 'special operation'.
Linus's communication style is very disrespectful to the Linux community and discouraging to the hardworking contributors. While he may be the creator of the original kernel, in no way does he seem as a good leader or representative of the community. The latest actions are doing nothing good but eroding the trust that has been built up over the years.
Some of his technical directions are rather questionable too.
Cry about it
He is asking for the boot.
If he is required he could at least say something like "Sorry but we have too. We hope it changes in the future" but no dude had to go full racist
@@daskampffredchen he said in one interview that he isn't good in relations with people
Lives near Portland, OR... that explains sooo much!
Thought the same thing when I saw that before..
I don't even buy products from Portland now due to not wanting to fund the rubbish..
No more leather man, Geber, Oregon Garden Tools etc.. Made in the US..
If he was still in Finland he would be even worse
@@T-Ball-o No.
LMAO! Have you seen their dancing queen little presidentess or prime ministress? She has two moms, a live kid (female, of course), and no husband. LOL! Talked smack of her biological father after not attending his funeral. LOL! Got Russia to designate Finland as a valid target for a preemptive dissuasory nuclear target...
Hint: you can find her spicy pictures and videos with her and her female friends at the Finnish white house on the dark web. She's past her prime but there's quite the catalog.😉
Slava Finnlaina! I love you Zelenskiiyyi! I love you Sanna!
@@meanmole3212 yep, some of the most hideous shims ive ever seen have come from the far north of europe
"It is entirely a legal thing"
No, Lunduke, it's entirely a political thing.
Political thing will be ending Pootin as a rat. Tis is just a circlejecking.
politics and law, two sides of the same coin
The "why the legal ramifications exist" is politics. The legal ramifications are entirely a legal thing.
Courts of Law, "a Nation of Law" don't _do_ justice *or* decency, and certainly are not *_ethical,_* because they are the opposite of those concepts.
Sanctions are just bitchy woke trash that’s intentionally crafted to hurt the citizens of the targeted country because their government hurt some government npc’s feelings. At their censorship expos they say it’s collective punishment to hurt the people so they overthrow the government but in the same breath, the psychos admit it never works yet they love canceling people and virtue signaling about how great they are, so the sanctions continue.
Same thing nowadays.
"I'm Finnish"
The correct spelling is "finished"
It's all fun and games until you hear snow softly mumbling "ebin 8-----------D"
He actually Swedish btw. It's a tiny minority in finland, but very influential.
Adjacency to Russia? But last I heard, an ICBM can hit any country on Earth.
@@haze6277he is literally Finnish.
HURR DURR HURR AM FUNNY GUY
Thank you so much for covering this! This is an interesting historical precedent for the FOSS community that might change some things and raises a lot of questions, but for some reason it didn't get as much attention as I expected, some FOSS-related media just kinda ignored this
Ideologues ignore important things.
Left-wing adjacent media and its ideologues are never going to cover this. After all they're the ones driving this and are very happy about it.
Sure its easier to ignore because otherwise its too scary :(
Вся эта абсурдная ситуация с Линуксом пахнет исключительно лицемерием, непомерной глупостью и откровенным нацизмом. Линус мог бы обыграть её по-разному: по-человечески поговорить с сотрудниками, молча сделать то, что он сделал, но нет - он предпочёл плюнуть людям в лицо. Это лишний раз доказывает, что, даже будучи отличным software engineer, бизнесменом или суперзвездой, человек не обязательно обладает способностями в других областях, даже в простом логическом мышлении.
Нет, Линус как раз и не мог сделать иначе. Он всегда был таким: "горячим финским парнем", который совершенно не умеет разговаривать и любитель накидать на вентинятор говнеца. Ничего не изменилось за последние лет двадцать в его стиле общения. Достаточно посмотреть все его километровые опусы на разные темы.
@@TheLonerD Брайан сказал об этом в видео - да, Линус он весь из себя такой дерзкий, за словами не следит и он такой был всегда. Но он своим идиотским комментарием просто дезинформировал людей. По факту, Линус действиетльно не мог поступить иначе, кроме как убрать из списка русские имена - требования Байдена. И пускай в своём очередном идиотском опусе он вклинивает какие-то нелепые исторические отсылки с киванием в свою национальность и с развешивает тупорылые ярлыки по типу "РАШН БОТС". Но ведь он попросту не обьяснил почему конкретно он поступил так с Русскими разработчиками, а ведь там всё максимально просто.
А мне вот интересно, под "знанием истории" этот "айм финниш" хотел напомнить о блокаде Ленинграда, в которой финны принимали активное участие под руководством немцев - что-то типа такого, да?
@@ГеоргийБерг-ю1е он вряд ли вообще думал о чем-то когда этот бред писал. Возможно где-то там он вспомнил про советско-финскую войну и решил просыпаться забыв про все детали
@@ГеоргийБерг-ю1е У русских с финами еще до второй мировой была интеерсная история. Русские дали финнам конституцию, защищали их язык и культуру. Может, линус возбудился, потому что он на самом деле не финн, а финский швед. Шведы хотели поглотить финляндию, но русские им не давали.
I'm saddened by what the Linux Kernel Foundation has become. Many maintainers are likely to quit because of this decline.
You blame Torvalds and the Kernel Foundation, but ignore the CLOWN that signed to Executive Order.
Why because they were following the laws of not only the US sanctions but global sanctions against the aggressive russian country.
@@jonathont5570 I hope you're joking, are you really generalizing all Russians for what their government decides to do? what a joke. Many of these contributors have been contributing for decades and have contributed greatly to Linux, are you saying that programming for open source projects is aggression?
@@jonathont5570 The attitude and behavior have significantly worsened. They are now going against core principles, no better than those who banned Dostoevsky's books simply because he was from Russia. Other tips could have been done, but the level of egoism is too much.
@@nicoleking772 The email of Linus is the worst part of the whole story. Those maintainers have sacrificed a lot of their time and energy for the project, yet he treats and throws them away like garbage.
I hope new open-source projects avoid that mistake and not base in US with their absurd politics
Go cry somewhere else 😂. Ходят тут, зигуют по-тихонечку, а потом всякие гадости делают, вроде xz utils. Совершенно справедливое решение, кто хотел, давно уже уехал и не имеет влияния от КГБ вертухаев. Не хочу, чтобы эти изгои с ресентиментом понаделали закладок в моём линупсе. 😊
You're welcome to start them, Ivan. I'm sure Putin will fund the national OS.
@@nangldAndrei/Andrew*
@@nangld In fact he already is, the Aurora OS or something along those lines, based on Linux. There's another Russian Linux OS too.
@@Pythoner Every 12 y/o can make a distro. Meaning you can do it too, next year.
"Let's one-sidedly ban a bunch of veteran Russian programmers who were responsible for maintaining spaghetticode in the kernel and know it better than 99.9% of world's programmers!"
There's no way something goes wrong, right. Right...?
the real Russian sabotage long game was just writing code...
Why weren't Israeli maintainers banned as well? Pfff we live in such a hypocritical world
Why should they you pos
Israel is a greater national security threat than Russia easily
This is oppening can of worms. I think this will create consequences that never can be repaired.
Won't be nearly the first area to be changed forever, also not even nearly the most important one. The world is already quite different today than it was 2 years ago
@@NJ-wb1cz wow, you see that too?) old freedom world is dead,broth, this is his agony
just don't update the kernel for 2-3 years
Linus Torvalds got brainwashed. I'm telling ya. Since he was forced to leave for some sensetivity course he came back changed. He is more woke than ever. It's sad but we lost him, boys.
Never would have made that connection. Interesting theory.
He could be deprogrammed.
@@NetflixForeignwith great shock to the system...
Just look at who Linus was... but look back 20 years ago till now. He was always a nutcase to be honest.
wait until you find out that foss is one step removed from communism
"Russian bots"
Remind me which psychopathic mouth I've heard that talking point come out of...
There is russian bots but worse of them are who work for free.
You are delusional if you think everyone online that say he or she "is american", is indeed "american". There are millions of accounts on social media pretending to be of such and such country, including the US to cause as much havoc as possible.
Trolls farms have been busted before from china and russia, some of them have actually been jdam into oblivion when they get too cocky and mount the werehouse outside their home base.
@@FodrMichalych 10,000x more western corporate bots than Russian ones. I’m surprised how many tech people ive met who have no idea that we’re the ones who make and operate that software on a planetary scale lol. Ive met lots of people who work at these places at different levels and most are amoral military veterans who generally despise average Americans
I guess you haven't been on RUclips for the past couple of years?
@@ultravioletiris6241 Hey! I'm not "amoral"! I have a sh!t-ton of testing that's supposed to prove it, too!
This sucks... we have some of the most gifted and talented people in Russia.
The Rus-UA war is not our business.
I live in Los Angeles, CA and we have much much more pressing issues in our country than Putin vs Zelensky.
Its ridiculous and hypocritical.
Plenty of Russians tried moving to avoid being conscripted and a bunch of governments canceled their ability to get visas,
But the entire thìrd world is allowed to come.
You had one of them messing with your internal politics and threatening to nuke you on a monthly basis. Also hurting your supply lines, engaging in hostile economic deals against your interests, stealing your technologies... Maybe you should care
@@Bokto1
"messing with your internal politic" The state department?
"threatening to nuke you on a monthly basis" The neo cons?
"Also hurting your supply lines" The covid lock downs?
"engaging in hostile economic deals against your interests" The International Monetary Fund?
"stealing your technologies" China?
@@Bokto1
In case my previous comment was ghosted i'll make it short, look in a mirror.
@@Bokto1 its California, LA no less it's not the russians fucking things up.
It's the enemy within causing the wests woes,
Our īdí0tíç 2 party uniparty system and midwits/pedants are also also a contributing factor, we UnIronically need a multi faction coalition system
As for the nukes they're the emptyest of empty threats,
It's like the infamous *"China's final warning"*
This is awesome! It means we're gonna have a Putnix soon!!!
Putnix -> Putniks -> Sputnik 😂
there is astra os already
*Sputnix
I will install it.
What is happening to open source projects... They are becoming closed and banning people from contributing 😞. The years are becoming worse and worse.
they're all overran these days with leftist-style fascism and ethno/racist bigotry
still there are Windows & MacOS
@@Nobody-eg4bi Windows is nothing more than bloated down spyware and Apple.... do you really expect me to game on a Mac?
Sanction people solely according to the nationality? This is the most bizarre news in the open source community. I am glad they haven't done anything to the Jewish programmers yet.
you mean Israeli developers? if sanctions were consistent rather than being based on a biased selection of allies and enemies, Israeli devs would also be shut out.
@@madProgenitorDeityI strongly agree with your input
Like you know who are behind the US constitution.
How could a host nation sanction its master?
@@ahvideplaneet How does that make any sense? 🤨
Didn't realise Torvalds was a xenophobe. Until now.
still not important. I don't think that I changes anything. The problem is that anything to do with Linux is USA related. That's a real issue
Russians don't count as people anymore.
Straight up naz*, he even brought up "history knowledge" by which he ment those times when Finland WITH Germany were holding three-years blockade around Leningrad - k**ling hundreds of thousands of soviet civilians. Or he ment something else..? 🤔 Well I'm as Saint-P's (Leningrad in 1941) inhabitant has this kind of "history knowledge"!
@@NotMarkKnopfler isnt the whole russophobia bs getting old. You do realise Russians live in western countries for decades and they haven't experienced issues of harassment for being Russian.
You can't use xenophobia or russophobia against the people who rightly criticise the actions of the kremlin anymore that you can use xinophobia or anglophobia for someone who criticises the actions of China or us. It just makes you look stupid for doing so
@@pgpython I'll agree with you on that point, the moment you provide me some examples of other countries citizens treated in the same way, for their government military actions. You can start by providing me the list of sanctions applied on the US\UK citizens for their full support of illegal Iraq invasion that took something akin to 20 times more civilian casualties than current Ukraine conflict so far.
I guess the BRICS meeting in Kazan (currently ongoing) should start discussing moving Open Source out of USA management, like they are doing with SWIFT message exchange.
BRICS only goal is to punish the big bad US, which is never a long term successful idea. Not because it won't work out, but because it won't be viable for most countries in BRICS.
Long as it stays out of China's hands and anyone who get Belt and Road funding. So put it in India or somewhere else.
Lmao. B for lua, R for forced labor commits, I for per-line-billing, C for erasing commit history of political prisoners, S for energy efficient code. Maybe they even run their SWIFT on open source hardware!
please do, so many seems to say so like is a bad thing, i think it would be great to have some real competition, after all is what drive most innovation, no?
Maybe they would push more Rust to have their system safer from western hacker, maybe they would try zig, maybe they will add their own GPU and CPU (well, china at least) and so on.. it would be GREAT!
Yes, that would be one of the best decisions. Алсу. The internet archive should move to Rusia.
If accepting code from a nation is somehow an endorsement of what military actions that nation takes, why does Linus accept code from the US? Or Rwanda? Or Somalia? With Linus's statement on the issue I can only assume he fully endorses the military actions of each of these nations in the past year.
Obviously he's from Finland and it is an act of self preservation and I'm from a neighboring country that is bordering with Russia so I don't mind any of this. I do think Russia has to be stopped no matter what. Once we've stopped Russia, we can think about everything else.
@@someverycool4552 "no matter what" careful there, you aren't nuke proof.
@@someverycool4552 that sounds like a whole bunch of propaganda
@@someverycool4552Glowie spotted
@@someverycool4552 They are almost finished.
Still not entirely clear why a law that prevents investment and services from being given to Russia should prevent Russians from giving services away for free to Americans???
Because 1) the decree (not law) is broad enough to forbid all contracts relating to software and 2) legal precedent said that conforming to a license such as the GPL counts as entering a legal contract.
Lunduke did a show on exactly that about 24 hours before this one.
Not sure why a free country has dementia patients participating in, and forcing others to oblige to, global cancel culture.
Because that's how US sanctions work. They are not subtle, they are not just, they are sanctions, they are designed to hurt, just like american bombs, no matter the "collateral damage".
@@zacboyles1396 its free as long aligned with their interest.
Not mad at the Linux team or foundation.
Mad at the 6 year olds that run our state department.
The results of wokism and Biden
This right here. I don't see how banning Russian contributors is accomplishing anything useful.
We know there are lots of eyes on the code, and the people contributing to the kernel have been doing so for YEARS without issue. So what, we think they are now all of a sudden going to become 'bad guys'? Maybe, but exceedingly unlikely.
So what are we thinking to accomplish here? It's not like folks in Russia can't download the code, put their own stuff into it, and continue to use it. The only thing this accomplishes is to deprive everyone ELSE of the contributions of these Russian coders. And even if there is a ban in place, all that needs to happen is for some Russian coder to put out some code that solves a problem, and someone ELSE will take it and contribute it to the kernel.
All this really does is make the U.S. look stupid, IMO (not like we actually needed any help in that department to start with...).
Well, I can't see too much difference after Linus dropped his "based" commentary
@@gizmo4816 The ruling party is mad at Russia for abandoning Marxism right as they were enacting it here in the US
@@gizmo4816 I am sure you are smarter than whole homeland security but let them do the job just this time ;)
And yet people tell me Rusophobia isnt real
It's absolutely real.
The only problem- it's not strong enough
@@mihalious why do you want more? Like im not a fan of the Russian government or anything but why be hateful of anyone who happens to have been born there? This kinda mindset only leads to humanity repeating the same mistakes
@@tux_the_astronaut The problem is you even trying to logically argue with a person who is writing such racist statements on the internet. Like why argue with him? Will you argue with someone who says "racism against black people is not strong enough"? Those are morally equivalent statements. This just shows how really strong the hate towards Russians is in the west.
@@mihalious I agree. "Phobia" means "fear."
That is, upon mentioning Russia, everyone unfriendly to Russians should scream, weep and hide under their tables.
@@tux_the_astronaut Tbf many Govts are trying to rewrite history and these younger people don't really know what the actual history is anymore.
Linus Torvalds has always been a moron. Andrew Tanenbaum was right from the very start and Linus wouldn't listen to him back then. Nothing has changed.
Shame Darwin isn't an option.
Can you, please, elaborate on what did you mean about Tanenbaum being right?
@@muroihenwald3396 Basically Tanenbaum went against Torvalds in an article. Look it up, "Linux is obsolete".
@@muroihenwald3396 You can look up the Torvalds/Tanenbaum debate if you are interested, but basically it was a debate over microkernels vs monolithic kernels. The broader debate is about complex multilayered software vs simple; the more lines of code, the more opportunities for bugs. This is still true (and it's what I mean by him being right), and it is a big part of the reason why modern software is terrible.
The reason Linus wanted a monolithic kernel is supposedly because of performance (a legitimate issue at the time but one that was solved by the L4 microkernel). But the reality is that he was never really making an operating system for other people - this was a toy for him to play with. It was only successful because of timing, as BSD was locked up in the AT&T lawsuit.
@@CyrilCommando Although it has a hybrid kernel since Apple moved the networking stack out, it's not really a microkernel. And the rest of the software stack is the same sort of legacy BSD junk, unfortunately
While yes they're complying, I can't help but wonder if it's something they've always wanted to do since the start of the war. This is the perfect excuse to do it "Oh we're just complying with sanctions, not discriminating"
Yup, lefties doing lefty things. At least they’re consistent about it.
Maybe this will eventually boost popularity of more modular approaches, e.g. microkernels with drivers and file systems and so on as independent pieces of software? Then every user can decide whether he wants to install drivers from Russian hackers or from NSA employees.
You make it sound like both options are bad xD
This is the beginning of the end of Linux as a world uniting effort. Sad.
And it"s the US that are destroying it. Just like almost everything else.
Linus basically being like, "Weren't you paying attention to something a president in a country did two years ago that affects people in a different country?"
Lel like the Linus was paying attention himself. I think it's the first point he ever made about the situation and then he suggests everybody watch the news. Time will tell so I think it would be alright if we let Linus actions speak for themselves.
Madness and stupidity
Linus since he wants to talk about history knowledge. who did Finland back in WW2? was they not aligned with a failed painter who became leader of a certain nation who started a pretty big war which killed millions starting in 1939?
they were on the correct side of hsitory umlike the US.
No, Finland wasn't an USSR ally. In fact, before the Winter War they were neutral
Yes. They fought on the side of the N@zis. Britain declared war on Finland in 1941. Fact.
@@Bokto1 go back and read some history books. Finland was a "mustache man" Germany ally dude.
Finland kept the funny bent cross insignia for quite some time after the war
Judging by Linus' post, it sounds like the struggle session really worked on him.
are we *sure* him is the right pronoun? they hasn't told us preferred pronouns afaik...
@@bearistotle1628 How many are they?
@@bearistotle1628 him is correct, because anything from that are just imaginary term by mentally ill adult with gender dissociation disease.
I think you glazed over the most interesting part. That part about lawyers telling to say about "complience" instead... Why? This non-transparency is actually what makes a nothingburger into real issue.
Because it's "justice" based on politics, aka when it comes to international affaires, the US justice department largely loses their neutrality and becomes an arm of the executive branch.
@@lolilollolilol7773 what are you talking about? The sanctions are written and public. They have almost the same weight as a law. Neutral or not it doesn't matter, I see no reason for lawyers to hide that they are in fact following them.
Microsoft has half russian half Hindi programmers, when they fire russians?
Are those Russians in Russia or in the US, though?
They couldn't do that, it would 100% kill the "good" part of the "Good Bad Good"-release pattern.
it shows in their quality of product though.
@@ArturdeSousaRocha Let me enlighten you: There is a reason why there are 10s of thousands of Russians (and Ukrainians) in Serbia and the Microsoft branch in Serbia was 3rd or 4th best branch and that was before all the Russians came here.
didn't a Russian rocket just save 2 stranded astronauts like 3 weeks ago?
Answer: Linus Torvalds' personal blatant xenophobia (read his response about the situation, it becomes clear)
Yeah that was... pretty wild actually
Some Fins are like that. As I mentioned above his country fought alongside Nazi germany against the Soviet union and some of them still hold a huge grudge against Russia..way before 2022 also
The Fins actively try to maintain the anti-Russian hate. It's disgusting. That government fell a long time ago. Punishing people who live in the same geographical area is just silly.
@mcal27 the soviets were way worse than germany. 8million vs upwards of 60million from the soviet regime.
@@pluto8404 get help.. you are psychotic! Nazi appeaser!
Why are not US programmers banned? Never forget what they did to Iraq, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Libya, Gaza and more. Hypocrisis at its finest. I am all for bashing war-mongering regimes, but if you have any kind of moral standard you can’t pick and choose who you want to sanction. You should apply the same standards to everyone.
Because like it or not the US either directly or indirectly owns most of the planet therefore history is written in a US favorable narrative and therefore history won't see any of what you just said that way. Edit: Also Linus lives in the US.
Why linux have so much drama this year, as if they dont have enough problem that make a lot of people left the Kernel already, and I swear every drama I heard recently all related to Linus 😂
If that's how people are treated when contributing to open source projects, based in the US, then the rest of the world
should probably ban contributing to these projects until these open source foundations move to Switzerland (for example).
I would personally not feel comfortable being regarded as a criminal for just wanting to help promote an open source project.
This completely defeats the purpose of open source.
In what seams to be the worst case scenario, if there is really no other choice, the kernel should be forked.
It is the open source way of throwing away your employer, and get rid of old attached strings.
As of now I will NOT contribute to any US based open source project (its not worth the legal risk, even if I am not Russian).
May be Linus works on NSA. And linux kernel has black hole like a SELinux and etc.
Let's not forget the fact that Finland before and during WW2 were on the side of fascist Germany, Italy and Japan, while Russia was fighting against them. And now, of course, all the Nordic states are mere vassal states of the US.
Linus may be a great programmer, but he's clearly ignorant and lacks enough knowledge about other topics. Arrogance and the smug certainty of ignorance go hand in hand.
Linus : "Learn history"
NO NOT LIKE THAT
Thank you for covering this important topic!
Thus, the United States forces specialists from other countries to change their citizenship and appropriate other people's technologies for themselves. This is not the first time this has happened. More recently, there was a case with a Chinese specialist and a lot of people before him. He is obliged to transfer all his works to the ownership of the United States when changing his citizenship.
It's actually a lot more complicated than what you've said. First of all, there are sanctions in place not only by the United States government, but also the European Union, Switzerland, Japan, Norway, and probably other countries that I'm not aware of. Secondly, it's not also about code, but "technical assistance". Exactly what technical assistance means is a legal question, and I'm not a lawyer, and even if I were, I am not *your* lawyer. So giving legal advice (applying specific fact patterns to law) is not something I'm not going to do.
Third of all, there are various exceptions that apply to different sanctions regimes, and even with respect to a single country, like the US, the sanctions program that applies to Huawei is different from sanctioned entities which are directly or indirectly controlled by the Russian Military-Industrial Complex. (It also gets dicey when the sanctioned entities are trying to evade the sanctions by trying to mislead whether or not the work is being done on behalf of a sanctioned entity or not --- but if the software support for the hardware in question is only being used in missiles being flung by Russia at Uktranian targets, and the hardware is designed and manufactured by a sanctioned entity ---- I think you can guess what the presumption will be by the courts as to whether or not the sanctions apply and whether you might be considered as lending technical assistance to that sanctioned entity.)
Again, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you are programmer or open source project based in Europe, or really, any country, you should consult a lawyer to see what your country's laws and regulations might be. Also note that depending on the country, ignorance may not be an excuse. Not all laws require wilful intent in order for the civil or criminal penalties to be applicable.
This is not great news and also put into perspective the freedom of GNU in question as well. Perhaps it is time to begin using decentralized development solution in certain cases.
Even anonymity and peer-to-peer platforms could play a role on that as well, just like back in the 2000s. It may slowdown things a bit, but I guess Linux and other open source development should be above nations or identity or politics. Just some good freaking coding. That's all we need.
Do you know any projects using the decentralized approach? I'm a noob in this
The video is excellent: it has a lot of valuable information, and the analysis you do is very comprehensive.
I did something very similar recently, but not based on your video, but translating an article directly from Russian language to Spanish from OpenNET, and also citing other sources. I am recommending the "Entropía binaria" community to watch this video too, as it is a great contribution to understanding the impact of this un-event globally. Thank you very much. I will be subscribed to your channel from now on. ¡Greetings from Uruguay and great job!
I look forward to the russian fork for the linux kernel tbh.
Really, really sucks that it's come to this though
I think it would be awesome to fire the monster ego Linus.
It's already done, because Linux kernel stopped taking contributions from Rusians, so Rusians were forced to make a fork and, as far, as I know, they still synching the changes made in the mainstream kernel, so it manages to stay compatible, so far.
True that. Perharps NOW it's time to finally contribute to this pile of NSA backdoored legacy.
Google supports all this and what is going on with the Russian people.
it's called astra
Do you know if the BSDs have also removed Russian devs? I believe OpenBSD Foundation is from Canada and I don't know where FreeBSD and NetBSD are based?
The projects are based in the US, however, unlike Linux, the FreeBSD project is a separate entity than the foundation. This is clearly stated in our bylaws. The FreeBSD Foundation owns and maintains the trademark, does development work and supplies the project with money for infra (and some marketing), nothing else.
It’s a completely different situation in FreeBSD/NetBSD land.
that's actually a bad question because Huawei is a company and Russian is a nationality
banning a nationality is not the same as banning (or partially banning) a company
Are they banning those who can't be named as well? Oh no they own everything lol including this platform that's why I need to speak in riddles to use my right of free speech.
oi vey
That country isn't sanctioned. Their generative side is approved and supported
thin ice thin ice my brother
@@NJ-wb1cz I wonder why they and their thugs aren't, what a cohencidence!
"In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation."
- Linux Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct
yeah, at this point its entirely political. screw the linux foundation.
It looks like a new Free Open Source OS needs to be created.
Although I'm not surprised Linus went full racist there, he is Finish after all and there's some history. I would however expect him to be more intelligent and have developed more tolerance than that during his life. Pretty poor form and disappointing.
Maybe he studied history well about russo-Finnish war. Finland lost some territory then. He has all the rights to react in this way
@@eugenemedvediev This. The amount of ignorance I see in the comment section is astounding. Or just trolls.
@@eugenemedvediev ok. This is a pretty bad take, since it basically means we can never recover from history. Historical slaves (everyone) can hate historical slavers (everyone, especially the Arabs). Indigenous folks can hate their invaders. China can hate the West and Japan. The US can hate the UK, Germany, Japan, Italy, etc.
When does the hate stop? To you, it never will.
I hope we don't live in your world. It would be terrible.
@@ArturdeSousaRochait is a lot like studying history of WW2 from position of Germany. Not surprising given which side Finland fought on.
@@eugenemedvediev So, you support Russia's reintegration of the baltics and You-crane?
I noticed that every time a new powerful alliance is formed, people tend to turn russophobic.
Sanctioning anybody is such a loser move. Especially larger players like China/India/Russia etc.
Does anybody actually think sanctions will change anything, or is it just a feel-good empty gesture?
Sanctions are suppose to punish economically, this just strikes me as stupidly handicapping yourself.
They work pretty well. It's not a loser move when you cripple your target economy and technological potential
If functions will change nothing, then why do we have russian trolls in panic mode?
sanctioning russia will decrease the well-being of the middle strata of our people. it doesn't change much but discontent rises slightly. now, as for the main mass of people, the lower strata, for them there is a little crisis of well-being, but for what reason it exists i don't know.
@@eugenemedvedievonly ones in panic mode are people whose funding was cut off due to cross-border transactions becoming more difficult.
And once sanctions come into play some seem to immediately forget that when deals with Russia happened, Russia was not in a position of power. So if it got benefits at all, it received far less than European partners.
Sounds like banning books and music by Russian authors. Not a smart move. Actually, it's quite dumb.
Imagine a world without books of Tolstoy and Dostoevsky.
Wish we could fork Linux, and create a real free-as-in-freedom version of Linux.
Why cant we?
This is called freedom! You can do whatever you want until they allow you
i miss the days of free software being based and skirting US government desires like PGP source code being published as a book to avoid being labeled as munitions
If Linus is serious about future of his OS he should immediately start looking into moving this operation in to a neutral country, something line UAE, Qatar, Brazil, South Africa, India or some other similarly suitable country that is capable to maintaining normal relations with both new emerging global political blocks.
Why not Switzerland? Almost all the "neutral" countries you listed (except SA, to an extent) are oppressive anti-privacy, anti-freedom-of-speach regimes. Besides, Brazil and India are in pro-Russian block. What the sense in moving the project from one politically-biased environment to another, just flipping the political polarity? Would be an absolutely nonsensical move.
@@comesignotus9888 Switzerland no longer passes as even remotely neutral country. They are US client state that will submit to state department demands even when doing so harms Switzerland's economic interest or safety of it's citizens. Country like that cannot be taken as safe place to run global business.
@@comesignotus9888 Also claiming Brazil and India are "pro Russian" kinda tell more about you then about Brazil or India.
Brazil and India are primary concerned about interest of Brazil's and India's busses elite that likes to maintain market access to as many couturiers as possible, instead of limiting themselves only to N American and W European markets like Anglo oligarchy would like them to do. That makes them economically invested in maintaining neutral status instead subjugating themsalves to state department dictates. And this makes them exactly the countries to be considered if one wants to run global business without some White Hose clown dictating to them who they can work with.
Fact that they are able to shrug off US demands and keep trade with Russia open only increases their credibility as neutral party.
I am not surprised at all. Soon Chinese will be banned. It makes sense to fork Linux and start maintaining a separate kernel for the East, since soon there will be different hardware to write drivers for. As the West-East war goes on, globalization will end and the East is likely to have different CPUs, GPUs and chipsets. As to what is "open" and what is "free", just forget about it. Nothing is free.
Sometimes I wonder what was the point of switching from Windows to Linux when they're both just as bad?
i was just thinking the same...
They aren't just as bad. In case of Linux, you own it just as much as Linus Torvalds. This is about their repo and their trademarks, not Linux as a codebase and as an actual kernel. No one really "owns" the codebase
Jokes aside, i'm totally with you Bryan, from a legal point of view they probably did a prudent move, but the communication part was a total disaster that will have many repercussions in the years to come.
Very disappointed in Linus, but then when his country fought with Nazi Germany during ww2 it’s bound to be a sore point to him
Oof.
Bound to be sore point to Russians that they weren't able to invade Finland with ten times the forces...
@@defeqel6537 well your in the Linus camp then…
Not at all. Finns take pride in defending their homeland.
@@cccpkingu and bending over for Uncle Sam
Thanks for sharing your insights
The santions are illegal, and therefore the Linux Foundation should not implement them.
Finnish Torvalds is a fascist, too.
Just as everybody that disagrees with you, right? I'm not saying happened was fair but name calling just makes you look silly. Or maybe that's just how you were raised, just accusing insulting people and then crying when they retaliate.
Also, nice AI-generated profile picture, russbot.
no, your war against Ukraine is illegal, therefore you get sanctions. Stop the stupid war and sanctions go away. It's just 2+2=4.
@@MJJonesss How about other wars? Where was sanctions against countries *other then Russia* for multiple wars all around the world?
@@sobieckil07 google "Finnish air force sign" , so you understand a little bit more why.
@@alexbibikov939 is 3 days operation going well right now.
Relinquish as in delete the name from the copyright? Even if someone else bumps the copyright year? So these people are now “unpersoned” from the list of names on each file? If their names are on the files and the year gets bumped, does that mean they are still associated and complying with the license?
Not to be pedantic… bc it seems like it is happening, regardless of whoever is driving it.
My concern is the it sets a bad precedent. I don’t have any skin in the game here though. I do detest the politicization of open source, regardless of whose authority is ultimately responsible.
Well it's a classic example of 'You either die a hero or you live long enough to become the villain'. Now all of a sudden Linus goes after the Russians for historical reasons? Come on man! =)
Well, to be fair, it is a good thing to learn about history. I wonder why he waited until now though because otherwise why did he accept Russian maintainers before in the first place?
If some us-based programmer is restricted from contribution to some Chinese / Huawai open source project - can US be called as "freedom country"?
Americans are very obedient people. They ask all the wrong questions - like not "why should I obey these 'sanctions'", but "why do you not impose sanctions on somebody else". Just wrap this up in I amendment case - Russians "publish" their code and you incorporate it into your project.
Don't label all of us with such a blanket statement. Many of us are unhappy with what our Govt is currently doing which is why the current administration got voted out. In fact a Democratic Candidate has not lost so badly in nearly 20 years. Most of the Country is not happy with the current administration.
@@FantomMisfit It was more general statement. Demand for the president not to have such abilities! Even the name of it - Executive Order. "You are not here to order me, f...er, I'm a free man" - that is my attitude. And you just accept this servitude. At least it should require normal law to be passed a not just a whim of a president.
As to your election system, I'm also not impressed. First of all you have "winner takes all" system, so theoretically those "landslides" are possible with like tens of votes difference between candidates. I even heard that electors are not bound by your vote. So basically you (US citizens) are put in a "straitjacket" and basically cannot do "jack-s...". For example - you wanted an end to UA war? Tough luck - he puts the same warmongers that Kamala would. So still billions for that war.
@siwiecministro1994 I disagree Trump will Talk to Putin and that war will be over with
@@FantomMisfit There is absolutely no possibility of this. Simply the interests of two countries are perceived (by the elites) to be totally opposite. It is like Cuban Missile Crisis - only difference is that Cuba is 2000km from Washington and Charkov or Sumy are 600 km from Moscow. Second difference is that US views itself as proprietor of the world and USSR just wanted to put a hedgehog in US's pants.
If you cannot beat them, you sanction them :)
There should be sanctions against the Netanyahu regime.
So we should ask why Israeli programmers are not banned, too.
I really can't wait until January, because hopefully by then this madness will end for good. I hate the double standards that are in place right now.
So then, soliciting Ukraine to join NATO wasn't "American Aggression"? It's not like we weren't warned against it, many times, which is a totally valid and fair request. As valid as "hey USSR plz don't put missiles in Cuba, on our doorstep, thx".
exactly!
@@RockBrentwood and that’s exactly why we have the current conflict.. you can’t talk like that concerning security with a country that lost the largest proportion of the 27 million in ww2. You can’t put a country in a box like that without sparks.. and sparks is what we see.
@@RockBrentwood and btw (to correct you) Uncle Sam has NOT refused NATO admission to Ukraine. US officials (Blinkin for one) have said Ukraine is on a course towards NATO membership.. so do us a favour and catchup on your reading huh?
@@RockBrentwood Wow, nice cop-bootlicking video you got there--not surprised at all that you're an Israel supporter. Enjoy watching your fake rules-based order crumble.
Standard russian propaganda. If that was the case they would attack Finland and Sweden. russia attacks only if you're outside of NATO. Neither Georgia nor Ukraine would want to go to NATO otherwise. Ukraine wanted to join EU and showed middlefinger to putin and yanukovich, that's when russia attacked. Surely afterwards Ukraine wanted to join NATO.
Thanks for the news!
Well... thats how my last hope that linus is gonna say something more sensible goes up in flames.
I guess its time to more seriously consider supporting other kernel.
Make the OpenBSD Kernel great again or (GNU Hurd)
As long as Open/FreeBSD isn't based in the USA
@@HksjJkdkd I don't know about bsd flavors, but gnu hurd is too stale at this point. I think redox is more up the alley of OS'es/kernels to consider, atleast if you are going for micro-kernel. It seems to be "mature enough" to atleast try, and probably ripe for collaborative effort.
Embedded rust seems to be improving at astounding pace in general(from bootloaders, libraries and kernels down to tooling, even low-end mcus toolchains and libraries are availible) to, so it seems like a good time investment overall(though the "main" rust dev team kinda scares me with all their drama and none sense)
As much as I support sanctions against Russia by nations, the FOSS community is only anchored in a single country by a technicality. It is an international collaboration and it's one of the few places that could build bridges instead of burning them. I get that they have little choice from a legal stand point but from Linus' statement they would not try to find alternatives, even if they could.
I wonder what kind of dirt they have on Linus Torvalds.
Maybe he was on the Diddy list :P
@@FantomMisfit diddy or epstein 🤣 , maybe not maybe something else even more darker
Since when is the law something objective you can do nothing about? What are courts and lawyers for if not to fight the subjective interpretation of the law from somebody else?
There's nothing the Linux Foundation can do about it? The USA government didn't even charge them with anything. If anybody claims the Linux Foundation violated some regulation, the onus is on them to prove it in a court of law. The Linux Foundation doesn't have to prove anything, because they are deemed not guilty by default.
What are we even talking about here?
To be clear this was never voted into law just one senile old man abusing his power and making unconstitutional executive orders. Don't worry were getting rid of him. His administration is gone in January.
Why did you make conclusion that act 40171 prohibits getting commits from Russian programmers? Seem it prohibits only supply to Russia, but nothing said about getting something from Russia.
I’m not a lawyer, but afaik it’s because of how the GPL license is being interpreted by US courts. You’re effectively doing business with Russia/Russians if you allow them to commit.
@@cd2320 The Linux development system is a feudal one. Linus is king, Greg Kroah-Hartman is the prince-heir, and all the other maintainers are dukes, counts, barons, and knights, each having first oversight of some kernel system, subsystem, file, or driver.
The problem isn't is the GPL in accepting or pulling in patches from compatibly sourced material. That's unlikely to be direct enough to trigger sanction penalties.
The potential issue is that the maintainer position involved delegated authority and close cooperation with other kernel maintainers. This authority and experience has a high economic value to companies the rely on the ongoing development of Linux in their products and processes. Why else would these sanctioned Russian companies pay a salary to these maintainers?