Still in the midst of reading "Pale Fire", when I was taken with a desire to hear a review or opinion. Yours is by far the most accurate. At least by my interpretation of the book.
We should not take the entirety of the poem as Shade's, however. Of course there are stunning lines in the poem, (such as the opening line, and the musings of the 'inadmissible abyss', but these are contrasted to some seemingly banal and un-poetic lines written by the self-procalimed 'miserable rhymester' Botkin (Kinbote) , (''and from the inside, too I'd duplicate, Myself, my lamp, an apple on a plate.'') that strays away from the ostensible main theme of Hazel's suicide, and the afterlife, which are therefore less clear, and thus easier for Botkin to manipulate towards his Zemblan delusions. Kinbote does indeed state that the poem presented is 'pale fire' in its untouched form, as Shade left it, but after all of Kinbote's deception throughout, why should we trust him to have left the poem completely untampered with, when he has defiled seemingly everything else hereby concerned.
Scott, tub tutorial pt. 2, continues a most passionate and riveting presentation of pale fire of the world we “knew” , struck by the notion of the child denied the knowledge of the mysteries of life and hereafter. The perpetual child in me requires continued time in the tub pondering the readings conjectures on life, screw the hereafter. We’ll on to tutorial pt 3 mañana, you’re always great but over the top good in your discussion of a most difficult writer/ conjecturer…
Thanks again, Larry. My only advice from reading the book a bit off-center a few times is focus on that poem and read it first, it's actually quite beautiful and moving about the loss of a child... I( didn't get the poem the first times I read that book and the whole book is a reaction to the poem (I think)...
Beautiful introduction to this work. As you indicate, the corollary to the asshole protagonist in Nabokov is the tragic hero or heroine separated from us by the distorting glass of that progatonist-narrator. Both Lolita and Shade’s daughter present us with the primary tragic story at the heart of the novel (the similarities go farther-for instance, both are on a deep emotional level taken advantage of through their part in a play. . . .) The distortion visited upon these figures by Nabokov’s narrators both deepens the tragedy, and at the same time transfigures the victim through aesthetic distance, raising these characters to the level of archetype, like a saint in a medieval or baroque painting.
Thanks, Emily, and welcome to the bathtub. That stuff with Shade's daughter is heartbreaking, and even more so if you believe some of the critics and assign the ultimate narrative duty to Shade himself... Keep safe in the bathtub! s
@@Scottmbradfield A chilling thought. Not sure I buy Boyd’s interpretation, but I’ll need to get my hands on that biography and see for myself. I suppose my view plays a fairly similar game-I think Gradus is a persona of Kinbote, who killed Shade (or thinks he did?)-hence all the intense, dream-like detail with which Gradus and his approach are described. But I’m sure my next reading will complicate all that, and perhaps shatter my view to pieces. The fact that Nabokov’s work can support all these wild interpretations-in which characters alchemically split, combine, and double-is just one of the many aspects I love.
@@emilypearson5484 yeah, I didn't buy that argument at first either, but it's grown on me. And last time I read PF, it was really emotional, all that stuff about the poor daughter, most of which went by me the first time I read it... s
He confused the set up and the punch line of the fountain/mountain gag. Sorry that was horrible of me. Thanks for taking the time to make this informative talk.
Poem itself is a Masterpiece. (the rest of course too) !!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!! I love this daughter theme: she's not dying of cancer etc. (or some other overblown and overused tragedies). She's just not attractive. Simple as that and yet moving as hell :) And about her way of death we can also say that she succesfully broke the "window" or rather melted into it, to another world :) "Then the *tide* of the shade reached the lauers, and the magnificent, velvet-and-flame creature *dissolved* in it." I'm not a native so I don't know if I am stretching this out or not - "tide", "dissolved". They are quite "liquid" words(?) I haven't read Boyd yet (just glimpses) so I don't know if he mentioned it in *this* way but this could be another proof for presence of Hazel at the end.
Hey Nolan. Thanks for all that. I agree about the poem, it's really beautiful and heartbreaking. I'm not proficient at RUclips, but while I was alerted you posted a note, it got "held" for review-the computer geniuses thought it might be spam! How weird. Tell us where you live and I'll put you on the IBA map. Or join our Facebook group at Ultimate Beginners for more hot puppy action: facebook.com/groups/702202229874384/?ref=bookmarks Oh and Boyd's argument goes way beyond Hazel and is probably right... Not that you need to be "right" to fully enjoy Pale Fire! (I've never been.) S
I am sorry to report that I had never heard of Mr. Bradfield, as I recall, before finding these videos today, although! The History of Luminous Motion, as a title, is known to me; I have not read it, but recently it was favorably mentioned in another vlog-ers video.
Still in the midst of reading "Pale Fire", when I was taken with a desire to hear a review or opinion. Yours is by far the most accurate. At least by my interpretation of the book.
James Estrada Thanks, James. And welcome to the bathtub! S
We should not take the entirety of the poem as Shade's, however. Of course there are stunning lines in the poem, (such as the opening line, and the musings of the 'inadmissible abyss', but these are contrasted to some seemingly banal and un-poetic lines written by the self-procalimed 'miserable rhymester' Botkin (Kinbote) , (''and from the inside, too I'd duplicate, Myself, my lamp, an apple on a plate.'') that strays away from the ostensible main theme of Hazel's suicide, and the afterlife, which are therefore less clear, and thus easier for Botkin to manipulate towards his Zemblan delusions. Kinbote does indeed state that the poem presented is 'pale fire' in its untouched form, as Shade left it, but after all of Kinbote's deception throughout, why should we trust him to have left the poem completely untampered with, when he has defiled seemingly everything else hereby concerned.
Scott, tub tutorial pt. 2, continues a most passionate and riveting presentation of pale fire of the world we “knew” , struck by the notion of the child denied the knowledge of the mysteries of life and hereafter. The perpetual child in me requires continued time in the tub pondering the readings conjectures on life, screw the hereafter. We’ll on to tutorial pt 3 mañana, you’re always great but over the top good in your discussion of a most difficult writer/ conjecturer…
Thanks again, Larry. My only advice from reading the book a bit off-center a few times is focus on that poem and read it first, it's actually quite beautiful and moving about the loss of a child... I( didn't get the poem the first times I read that book and the whole book is a reaction to the poem (I think)...
Beautiful introduction to this work. As you indicate, the corollary to the asshole protagonist in Nabokov is the tragic hero or heroine separated from us by the distorting glass of that progatonist-narrator. Both Lolita and Shade’s daughter present us with the primary tragic story at the heart of the novel (the similarities go farther-for instance, both are on a deep emotional level taken advantage of through their part in a play. . . .) The distortion visited upon these figures by Nabokov’s narrators both deepens the tragedy, and at the same time transfigures the victim through aesthetic distance, raising these characters to the level of archetype, like a saint in a medieval or baroque painting.
Thanks, Emily, and welcome to the bathtub. That stuff with Shade's daughter is heartbreaking, and even more so if you believe some of the critics and assign the ultimate narrative duty to Shade himself... Keep safe in the bathtub! s
@@Scottmbradfield A chilling thought. Not sure I buy Boyd’s interpretation, but I’ll need to get my hands on that biography and see for myself. I suppose my view plays a fairly similar game-I think Gradus is a persona of Kinbote, who killed Shade (or thinks he did?)-hence all the intense, dream-like detail with which Gradus and his approach are described. But I’m sure my next reading will complicate all that, and perhaps shatter my view to pieces. The fact that Nabokov’s work can support all these wild interpretations-in which characters alchemically split, combine, and double-is just one of the many aspects I love.
@@emilypearson5484 yeah, I didn't buy that argument at first either, but it's grown on me. And last time I read PF, it was really emotional, all that stuff about the poor daughter, most of which went by me the first time I read it... s
He confused the set up and the punch line of the fountain/mountain gag. Sorry that was horrible of me. Thanks for taking the time to make this informative talk.
Any time, Hugh! S
Poem itself is a Masterpiece.
(the rest of course too)
!!!!!!SPOILERS!!!!!!
I love this daughter theme: she's not dying of cancer etc. (or some other overblown and overused tragedies).
She's just not attractive. Simple as that and yet moving as hell :)
And about her way of death we can also say that she succesfully broke the "window" or rather melted into it, to another world :)
"Then the *tide* of the shade reached the lauers, and the magnificent, velvet-and-flame creature *dissolved* in it."
I'm not a native so I don't know if I am stretching this out or not - "tide", "dissolved". They are quite "liquid" words(?)
I haven't read Boyd yet (just glimpses) so I don't know if he mentioned it in *this* way but this could be another proof for presence of Hazel at the end.
Hey Nolan. Thanks for all that. I agree about the poem, it's really beautiful and heartbreaking.
I'm not proficient at RUclips, but while I was alerted you posted a note, it got "held" for review-the computer geniuses thought it might be spam! How weird.
Tell us where you live and I'll put you on the IBA map. Or join our Facebook group at Ultimate Beginners for more hot puppy action:
facebook.com/groups/702202229874384/?ref=bookmarks
Oh and Boyd's argument goes way beyond Hazel and is probably right... Not that you need to be "right" to fully enjoy Pale Fire! (I've never been.)
S
@@Scottmbradfield Thanks.
But I think you've might already added me some time ago. Anyway, Poland (Świdnica) :)
@@19luX92 You're right! You're already entitled to all the rights and privileges of an IBA member!
I am sorry to report that I had never heard of Mr. Bradfield, as I recall, before finding these videos today, although! The History of Luminous Motion, as a title, is known to me; I have not read it, but recently it was favorably mentioned in another vlog-ers video.
Superb vid
Thanks, Donnie! S