This is contradicted in Raging Blast 2. Goku can stack his Kaioken super attack buff 3 times, he’ll first say “Kaioken!”, then “Kaioken 2x!”, and lastly “Kaioken 3x, ha!”
Also to add, when powering up vs Ginyu he simply states Kaioken and gets to 180,000 while his base is 90,000. I might be wrong but this was his base power level in the Daizenshuu I believe.
Yeah but the daizenshu guides were made afterwards... so all the writing staff did was assume that Goku used kaioken x2 and came to the conclusion that base Goku was 90K even though Goku's power level readings are below 90K while powering up (87K,89K,) with kaioken which means that his base was actually below 90K... lol Goku's real base power level was probably 60K just like Captain Ginyu guessed and he used kaioken x3 to reach 180K
@@reptilian_geneticist Ginyu himself admits that his initial assessment of Goku was off by saying Goku is even better than he thought after their brief scuffle when Vegeta left Goku high and dry. As far as the reading goes before Goku utilizes the Kaioken, Ginyu himself says without using the scouter he thinks Goku is at 85K. Once Goku uses Kaioken, Ginyu uses the scouter and he begins counting from 90K all the way to 180K in the manga so Goku’s base is 90K.
@@ssj4ssbgogeta957 that's because Goku is repeatedly using bursts of Kaioken from the beginning of their fight and Ginyu doesn't know the difference between kaioken and normal powering up... Look at the manga panel again, Goku is already using kaioken when Ginyu states the scouter reading of 90k.... First Ginyu says he doesn't need a scouter and thinks Goku's max power is around 85K, and then immediately after Goku says "Kaioken" powering up and then Ginyu uses his scouter and says 90k!?.... that means Goku had to be below 90k prior to saying "kaioken"... Plus when Goku was fighting against jace and burter we have statements of "bursts of 60k" which is exactly how kaioken is described "as bursts of power per heartbeat etc" And in the original Japanese DBZ anime the scouter readings start off below 90K... I believe it starts in the 70K range..
Earlier on King Kai warns Goku not to go over a 2x amp, which could of made people assume that there were lesser multipliers because of that. Pair that with Goku omitting the multiplier, but mentioning it other times and it's understandable why the confusion takes place. The technique itself is considered deadly. If there were lower, yet safer multipliers than 2x; then it'd defeat the whole purpose of what it stands for, being a risk it all / all or nothing type of technique that will destroy your body if you rely on it.
Even though I know you're right. I am still gonna make a imaginary Kaioken that gives 1.5 times multiplier the than it increases corresponding to the numbers.
I think this misconception also comes from the video games like budokai where they would have “kaioken” then “kaiokenx2” afterwards. Especially in raging blast 2 where goku yells “kaioken” then says “kaiokenx2” on top of it
So the way I saw it was that normal Kaioken doubled his power but Kaioken x2 doubles the power of the Kaioken, essentially making his total power 3x normal.
In the german version of the Manga the Narration never sad something of doubling goku's power, but instead only saying that a times 2 Kaioken ( dopplte Kaioken in the Text itself) wouldn't have been enough.
Or maybe it’s like kaioken is an exact multiplier of base form, so x1 is base power added to itself again, then x2 is 2 base powers added to the original? Just a theory
If you wanna phrase it that way, yeah. In terms of writing, it’s Toriyama building up to the “Kaioken x3” reveal. It’s more hype if you know that he’s already using x2, so when he bumps it up by one, it’s a big moment.
I thought it was multiplied, but in the sense of “Kaioken” is a 2x, “Kaio x2” was a 4x, and so on. After being an adult, I see it as “double power” and then an added stack each time. So like base Kaioken is 2x power, “Kaioken x2” is 3x, and so on.
That makes no sense. Because KKx2 would already put Goku at in the Saiyan arc at 32,000 which means he would have absolutely ripped apart an 18,000 Vegeta. It’s proven that KK and KKx2 are the exact same thing and they multiply his strength as the numbers suggest. Be it the manga or the Daizenshuu. Don’t look too deep into it as you’ll find your head canon will make you look like you’re trying to go against canon.
When saying kaio-ken x2 it means that the kaio-ken it's self is multiplied by 2 not the users abilities, the user abilities gets multiplied by 3 not 2 😅
So like we have known that the technique doubled power and we have also seen that the original one wasn’t strong enough to beat vegeta which is exactly why he goes and uses it in the 2x form
Goku had a power of roughly 8,000 (not 9,000 like the dub says). Vegeta had a power of roughly 18,000. Goku used Kaioken x2 and he still couldn’t hold a candle to Vegeta. These are numbers said IN THE MANGA. The manga flat out SAYS he couldn’t beat Vegeta with x2 and that’s why he had to go to x3. If it were a x2 on top of this supposed “Kaioken boost”, he would have squashed Vegeta. But he didn’t because Kaioken x2 is the same thing as just saying Kaioken.
Nice vid . I can't believe people still have this misconception 😂
This is contradicted in Raging Blast 2. Goku can stack his Kaioken super attack buff 3 times, he’ll first say “Kaioken!”, then “Kaioken 2x!”, and lastly “Kaioken 3x, ha!”
That's literally the same thing cause he goes up to that sometimes it's four
@@bryankennedy3719 Can you elaborate?
Also to add, when powering up vs Ginyu he simply states Kaioken and gets to 180,000 while his base is 90,000. I might be wrong but this was his base power level in the Daizenshuu I believe.
Yeah, those numbers are also said in the manga when that happens
Yeah but the daizenshu guides were made afterwards... so all the writing staff did was assume that Goku used kaioken x2 and came to the conclusion that base Goku was 90K even though Goku's power level readings are below 90K while powering up (87K,89K,) with kaioken which means that his base was actually below 90K... lol
Goku's real base power level was probably 60K just like Captain Ginyu guessed and he used kaioken x3 to reach 180K
@@reptilian_geneticist Ginyu himself admits that his initial assessment of Goku was off by saying Goku is even better than he thought after their brief scuffle when Vegeta left Goku high and dry.
As far as the reading goes before Goku utilizes the Kaioken, Ginyu himself says without using the scouter he thinks Goku is at 85K.
Once Goku uses Kaioken, Ginyu uses the scouter and he begins counting from 90K all the way to 180K in the manga so Goku’s base is 90K.
@@ssj4ssbgogeta957 that's because Goku is repeatedly using bursts of Kaioken from the beginning of their fight and Ginyu doesn't know the difference between kaioken and normal powering up... Look at the manga panel again, Goku is already using kaioken when Ginyu states the scouter reading of 90k.... First Ginyu says he doesn't need a scouter and thinks Goku's max power is around 85K, and then immediately after Goku says "Kaioken" powering up and then Ginyu uses his scouter and says 90k!?.... that means Goku had to be below 90k prior to saying "kaioken"...
Plus when Goku was fighting against jace and burter we have statements of "bursts of 60k" which is exactly how kaioken is described "as bursts of power per heartbeat etc"
And in the original Japanese DBZ anime the scouter readings start off below 90K... I believe it starts in the 70K range..
Earlier on King Kai warns Goku not to go over a 2x amp, which could of made people assume that there were lesser multipliers because of that. Pair that with Goku omitting the multiplier, but mentioning it other times and it's understandable why the confusion takes place.
The technique itself is considered deadly. If there were lower, yet safer multipliers than 2x; then it'd defeat the whole purpose of what it stands for, being a risk it all / all or nothing type of technique that will destroy your body if you rely on it.
Well said
Even though I know you're right.
I am still gonna make a imaginary Kaioken that gives 1.5 times multiplier the than it increases corresponding to the numbers.
I think this misconception also comes from the video games like budokai where they would have “kaioken” then “kaiokenx2” afterwards. Especially in raging blast 2 where goku yells “kaioken” then says “kaiokenx2” on top of it
So the way I saw it was that normal Kaioken doubled his power but Kaioken x2 doubles the power of the Kaioken, essentially making his total power 3x normal.
That’s a fair assumption, but Toriyama likely wanted it to be as simple as possible through a simple multiplication, not a stacked one
In the german version of the Manga the Narration never sad something of doubling goku's power, but instead only saying that a times 2 Kaioken ( dopplte Kaioken in the Text itself) wouldn't have been enough.
That sounds like its saying the same thing, just worded differently
@@InnovativeJdawg yeah, pretty much, i didn't wanted to prove it as wrong, just wanted to bring it up, because i thought it was interesting.❤️
Or maybe it’s like kaioken is an exact multiplier of base form, so x1 is base power added to itself again, then x2 is 2 base powers added to the original? Just a theory
So he making it slightly more inconvenient just because he wants to say time two?
If you wanna phrase it that way, yeah.
In terms of writing, it’s Toriyama building up to the “Kaioken x3” reveal. It’s more hype if you know that he’s already using x2, so when he bumps it up by one, it’s a big moment.
Hi!
Hey how’s it going
400th like!
the video games made it worse
I thought it was multiplied, but in the sense of “Kaioken” is a 2x, “Kaio x2” was a 4x, and so on. After being an adult, I see it as “double power” and then an added stack each time. So like base Kaioken is 2x power, “Kaioken x2” is 3x, and so on.
I can see the reasoning, but that’s a bit more complex than Toriyama would intend it to be
You’re right on who it works
if it's true that what is kiokein ×3
That makes no sense. Because KKx2 would already put Goku at in the Saiyan arc at 32,000 which means he would have absolutely ripped apart an 18,000 Vegeta. It’s proven that KK and KKx2 are the exact same thing and they multiply his strength as the numbers suggest. Be it the manga or the Daizenshuu. Don’t look too deep into it as you’ll find your head canon will make you look like you’re trying to go against canon.
When saying kaio-ken x2 it means that the kaio-ken it's self is multiplied by 2 not the users abilities, the user abilities gets multiplied by 3 not 2 😅
That’s not how it works
You know what is more spread myth about Kaioken? That it's compatible with Ultra Instinct!
I thought this was obvious
Surprisingly not
So like we have known that the technique doubled power and we have also seen that the original one wasn’t strong enough to beat vegeta which is exactly why he goes and uses it in the 2x form
He was already using Kaioken x2 when he started fighting Vegeta. He had to push it to x3.
FiRsT 🤓🤓🤡🤡
Source: i made it up
I legit showed you the source.. Dragon Ball Chapter 229, go read it, it’s literally on the first page.
The Source Is Literally X2 Convincing Them When Other People Said It
No it's kaioken x 2 that's why he says x2
Goku had a power of roughly 8,000 (not 9,000 like the dub says). Vegeta had a power of roughly 18,000. Goku used Kaioken x2 and he still couldn’t hold a candle to Vegeta. These are numbers said IN THE MANGA. The manga flat out SAYS he couldn’t beat Vegeta with x2 and that’s why he had to go to x3.
If it were a x2 on top of this supposed “Kaioken boost”, he would have squashed Vegeta. But he didn’t because Kaioken x2 is the same thing as just saying Kaioken.
Whatever bro
Just telling facts.