I envy every rogue player and the entire rogue community for having such an amazing guides done by Mr. Hat man. Well done Simon great informative video as always.
You're a true legend, thanks as always. I'm a super lucky rogue and got a Felstriker on my first try, hehe. My journey through classic is much more casual than my old hardcore raiding days. I do 5-man heroics with a group of friends. I would really love an enthusiast's perspective on 5-man optimization. I've had some unusually great results with Greed/Pride and stacking haste, because we have a prot pally tank. I keep stormshroud around, of course, but that often seems overkill. I've been finding it to be a fun hobby to think about 5-man fight duration, the differences between them and raids, and how that changes rogue. Would love to know your thoughts or those of any other enthusiast rogue!
you can already clear heroics easily if you have a geared group super fast, so you dont really need alot of optimization. Focus on better gear, and combat is ahead of assassination for 5man heroics for sure.
@@sparks3555 yeah I know, we don't have any problems with any of the heroics. We're just 5 former hardcore raiders who are dirty casuals now but still enjoy thinking about stuff. Optimization to understand, not because it's required by any means. :) Like, imagine there were parses and competition in 5-mans. Things are just different in small groups and there's some allure to it. Fights are so short, burst and recovery are good. Vigor has more value, even to the point of me thinking the glyph might pull ahead. Probably complex for someone like Simon to cover in a video though because group comp will mean everything.
Hey Simon, thanks for the video as always. Mind doing a short update/guide on this assassination/rupture spec? I know you made a light post about it; however, would be nice to know how to use it optimally - thanks!
not gonna lie, discovering simonize some weeks back made me reroll to rogue. 80 since Saturday and loving it. chicken spec is also propably the best for heroic dungeons.
Hey Simon, any chance you could do a rough tier list of weapons for the AOE build (like the single target build has on wowhead). I'm currently using the Clamity's Grasp + Fel Striker. Curious how much better the Spellblade would be. Thanks, love the content.
We need an ulduar Pre Bis list ! and also does Simonize play dragon flight ???? It's tons of fun and I'm loving it. I actually returned to some retail since W.O.D
Hey! Love your content. Any tips on what is the best weapon and enchantment combination for a Combat Rogue to swap when using fan of knives? Im currently using Calamity's Grasp + Pride, but Im not sure what would be the best to optimize AoE while still being a "normal" combat rogue. I tried using stormshrould but it only works with 5+ mobs, so I ended up sticking to my normal gear.
great vid as always ! just some small questions about the glyphs is the Feint Glyphe still viable for more Poisonproccs ? And when will the Envenom glyph released ? ive seen some new glyph in old data but as we all know they´re not released yet Thanks for all the information!
hey simonize, wondering with Ulduar on the ptr if we are gonna see updated bis lists for rogues going into phase 2 soon. thanks and keep up the great videos!
What poisons are people generally using? It’s so hard to find a good answer being new to rogue. Is it instant on main and deadly on off? As an assassination rogue? I always get so confused with it. Or double instant?
i use ROD when i aoe, without hypred or adrenaline rush or thistle tea, my dps on trash can become @ around 13-14k "only mace procs boost me to this", its mostly about luck, but i guess with hybrid spec + felstriker i would do way more since i can legit spam it, in some cases i spam FOK without stopping, if i would choose, it would be the gear + rod + blacksmith dagger to deal insane dmg since energy wont be an issue 100%
Rod of the sun king is still a pretty solid item as well? I’ve seen the sims and have been using it in my raids since i dont have a felstriker(62 runs) but didnt see it mentioned in this video.
Do you think that the Glyph of Sinister Strike becomes more valueable if you're doing expose? Cause in this situation you'll spend your combo points on keeping rupture and expose.
Nah it's just bad. If you're playing expose then you only want to use 1 point exposes anyways. The glyph is giving you +12s of uptime, adding combo points past 1 is just less point efficient than a 1 point. SS glyph just adds unnecessary RNG to combat. Your whole rotation is about keeping up your SnD, rupture, and expose with minimal clipping; extra combo points can just scuff the timings. At the end of the day, extra combo points only mean extra eviscerates, which is your lowest priority and worst spender
Not really related to this, but I wasted way too much time playing with wowsims regarding sunder/ea. TLDR is that's still too broken to be useful. Using the settings from that google sheet warrior specs are the only ones that use heroism/throw at T0s. For rogues the earliest are between T2-4s. It always syncs those, but compared to other buffs/debuffs they're delayed unless you can apply either of those yourself (assuming that's the logic, i only tested warriors). ToT glyph/cast does no additional DPS. That's obv fine unless you're looking to make a point about raid dps. The way sim does sunders they increase damage more than EA when either is applied by someone else. It relates to that T0 instant buff/debuff thing. 3 sunders in the first 3s is worth more than full "sunder" stacks with EA in the next 3s. Way rogue EA rotation works is SS, SND, sometimes SS and then EA. The sim uses the 4th global or T3s for external application. Sunders on the other hand are coded as using the first 5 globals for just sunders. I'm sure there's 1/100 warriors that do it like that, but I've never played with one. Anyways when you know the above you might be able to see why there is a much bigger difference with warriors in armor debuff duty vs pure zugzug than with rogues. Other funny random things that the sim does for combat is that it always drops snd for the first time around T14s. That's when prepot drops off and the sim is convinced that the next free global is reserved for ToT and that's also the time you should refresh snd with the opener it uses. In a 2min fight it drops snd 1-3 times and EA 1-2 times. Oh and the sim counts the self damage from sappers as DPS. You have to manually change that to only consider damage to the target. In a 2min fight warriors get about 20dps extra and rogues 5dps. No idea why those are so far away, since it logs the rage gain even when you manually fix the dps portion. Sorry for this wall of text. I did it to justify fiddling with a broken sim for 10+ hours to prove that a rounding error isn't a good enough reason to carry warriors in phase1.
im confused. im comparing your parses to mine. and i see on alot of bosses you 99 but did less dps than compared to me and i 97 it. for example you did 7.5k on maxx and i did 7.7 and i 97 parse that. how is this possible? im runnning with no melee haste.
check your ilvl bracket with his ilvl bracket on the ilvl parse rank. people tend to use T6 bracer and belt to drop ilvl to around 203-206 ilvl bracket (instead of 213 ilvl bracket with naxx belt and bracers) to get higher parse number in that bracket. 213 ilvl bracket is fill chinese player parses ridiculous high that is literally cheating using automated 3rd software to literally perfect sim an actual boss fight ingame. So if you parsing legit at 213 ilvl bracket, your ilvl parse will be very low even if you are doing 7k-9k dps.
I use 51/13/7 spec but instead of putting point in Vigor I max Lethality @ 5/5. The only time the extra energy comes into play is when you initial burst. Good for PvP, but not a boss fight. Can somebody tell me why 10 max energy is better than 6% increased crit damage on basically your mutilate? Thanks!
@@MrHissyfit I'm told to wait to use envenom until it runs out to maximize damage, and so far that has been significant in boosting my DPS but most of the time I'm 1 or two seconds behind and I can't apply it in time because I only had enough energy for 1 Mutilate and it only gave 2 combo points. Should I just apply Envenom with only two or wait until I can apply another Mutilate and then use Envenom? I'm torn since most of our damage is poison but I don't know whether the inherent increased proc chance of Envenom is better than the Envenom poison damage it causes itself.
@@icebox1954 You'll rarely ever get more than 60-70% uptime on envenom even with the best crits and 1CP recoveries after finishers. Your aim should always be to get 2 Mutilates in after an Envenom (4 or 5CP) and to never Mutilate at 4CP. I generally pool energy to 60 and find it comfortable, you might like more. If you find yourself overcapping energy dump a rupture or spec Vigor to give you that additional 10 energy buffer. If it's a choice between capping energy out or overlapping an envenom, overlap it. If you have 2CP, use another Mutilate before an Envenom. You should never use low CP envenoms unless trying to maintain SnD.
@@MrHissyfit Okay. That makes sense. I've been doing it all wrong then, but to be fair you can't wait for two Mutilate in dungeons so you gotta just Envenom in those. Thanks for the advice, I'll play accordingly.
so im really confused about the build so in the first video i watched of you you have 5/5 lethality and all the other sites say thats the basic build now i see you with 1 in vigor and 4/5 lethality and wowhead recomends that build as well is this the new build most people i see are still using the 5/5 lethality basic build @SimonizeShow
Simon is such an icon that any top tier guild asks rogues they're recruiting if they watch "hat man"
And so underrated
The hat changes were top tier, well done.
C E N S O R E D
I envy every rogue player and the entire rogue community for having such an amazing guides done by Mr. Hat man. Well done Simon great informative video as always.
Simonize gear swapping irl for the bonus stats ofc
I have 3 planned gear swaps in this video. I think they are not only possible to do, but profitable to do as well.
do you have a hat swap macro?
@@SimonizeShow mans buying hats to wear once as a tax right off. Not only is a genius rogue but a genius tax evader
lol the "censored" gave me a good chuckle
You're a true legend, thanks as always. I'm a super lucky rogue and got a Felstriker on my first try, hehe. My journey through classic is much more casual than my old hardcore raiding days. I do 5-man heroics with a group of friends. I would really love an enthusiast's perspective on 5-man optimization. I've had some unusually great results with Greed/Pride and stacking haste, because we have a prot pally tank. I keep stormshroud around, of course, but that often seems overkill. I've been finding it to be a fun hobby to think about 5-man fight duration, the differences between them and raids, and how that changes rogue. Would love to know your thoughts or those of any other enthusiast rogue!
you can already clear heroics easily if you have a geared group super fast, so you dont really need alot of optimization. Focus on better gear, and combat is ahead of assassination for 5man heroics for sure.
@@sparks3555 yeah I know, we don't have any problems with any of the heroics. We're just 5 former hardcore raiders who are dirty casuals now but still enjoy thinking about stuff. Optimization to understand, not because it's required by any means. :)
Like, imagine there were parses and competition in 5-mans. Things are just different in small groups and there's some allure to it. Fights are so short, burst and recovery are good. Vigor has more value, even to the point of me thinking the glyph might pull ahead.
Probably complex for someone like Simon to cover in a video though because group comp will mean everything.
Cannot explain how I have been waiting since launch for this video. You're the best can't wait for T2 lists soon!
Hey Simon, thanks for the video as always. Mind doing a short update/guide on this assassination/rupture spec? I know you made a light post about it; however, would be nice to know how to use it optimally - thanks!
Is rupture a thing? That tier set bonus just hurts...
When you have leatherworking and the hat is pre-raid bis
not gonna lie, discovering simonize some weeks back made me reroll to rogue. 80 since Saturday and loving it. chicken spec is also propably the best for heroic dungeons.
Hey Simon, any chance you could do a rough tier list of weapons for the AOE build (like the single target build has on wowhead). I'm currently using the Clamity's Grasp + Fel Striker. Curious how much better the Spellblade would be. Thanks, love the content.
He promised 4 hats when I saw him in Dalaran, and he delivered. Thanks for the videos, keep up the good work!
Hear ye, Hear ye! Lord Simon has decreed that "AoE Spec", shall henceforth be named "Fish spec"! Long live the hat king!
Simonize: Makes the most detailed rogue guide ever
Random Twitch viewer: yo what poisons u use
The hat change is inspired my man. Brilliant.
Another top tier rogue video, thank you!
2nd! Something to watch while farming my Felstriker!
Good luck!
Yes good luck! I got it in my one run of the day before raid time last week!
Would love a video discussing the warrior dps sunder vs combat expose armor (:
Best rogue content. Helps so much! thx
Can we get a Ulduar Combat vs Assassination?
Thanks man. Another great vid.
We need an ulduar Pre Bis list ! and also does Simonize play dragon flight ???? It's tons of fun and I'm loving it. I actually returned to some retail since W.O.D
Hey! Love your content. Any tips on what is the best weapon and enchantment combination for a Combat Rogue to swap when using fan of knives? Im currently using Calamity's Grasp + Pride, but Im not sure what would be the best to optimize AoE while still being a "normal" combat rogue. I tried using stormshrould but it only works with 5+ mobs, so I ended up sticking to my normal gear.
great vid as always !
just some small questions about the glyphs
is the Feint Glyphe still viable for more Poisonproccs ? And when will the Envenom glyph released ? ive seen some new glyph in old data but as we all know they´re not released yet
Thanks for all the information!
Glyph of Envenom was integrated into the Master Poisoner talent, so you already have it.
Thank you bro!🎉
Very helpful brother thank you
Censored head is top tier content
Here for the information, staying for the hat changes
hey simonize, wondering with Ulduar on the ptr if we are gonna see updated bis lists for rogues going into phase 2 soon. thanks and keep up the great videos!
What poisons are people generally using? It’s so hard to find a good answer being new to rogue. Is it instant on main and deadly on off? As an assassination rogue? I always get so confused with it. Or double instant?
Wow great video I'm going to like it.
hey simonize, the discord link does not seem to work. can i just double check if it is still valid? thanks for the great videos
Than you for another good and intressing video. What would the rogue community do without you!? ❤
i use ROD when i aoe, without hypred or adrenaline rush or thistle tea, my dps on trash can become @ around 13-14k "only mace procs boost me to this", its mostly about luck, but i guess with hybrid spec + felstriker i would do way more since i can legit spam it, in some cases i spam FOK without stopping, if i would choose, it would be the gear + rod + blacksmith dagger to deal insane dmg since energy wont be an issue 100%
i will absolutely be trying out that last spec. sick of getting beat on cleave bosses
i heard theres an uncesored hat change version of this brilliant video somewhere on the dark web
why is your head censored xD?!
Hi Simon, thx for your videos, but what u think about sub dps build? Its playable?
Nice work I like your saying that wow is a team game and that individual parsing on a third party website is cringe
Rod of the sun king is still a pretty solid item as well? I’ve seen the sims and have been using it in my raids since i dont have a felstriker(62 runs) but didnt see it mentioned in this video.
yep i said top 3 not top 4 or top 5 rod of the sun king is still very good
im not the type of guy that laugh much but that CENSORED made me roll on the floor for a good minute :D:D:D
Hi Simonize why you take 1/1 vigor over 5/5 Lethality?
Request phase BIS videos as you did in TBC thanks xoxo
Is the felstriker better than kt mace that restores energy?
Check the discord it does once your around 15 enemies
Hats off.
Discord link isnt working for me, says it is expired.
im at bis on combat would u recomend arpen gems or ap thats the only thing im confuse
that's a good wisdom
Do you think that the Glyph of Sinister Strike becomes more valueable if you're doing expose? Cause in this situation you'll spend your combo points on keeping rupture and expose.
Nah it's just bad. If you're playing expose then you only want to use 1 point exposes anyways. The glyph is giving you +12s of uptime, adding combo points past 1 is just less point efficient than a 1 point.
SS glyph just adds unnecessary RNG to combat. Your whole rotation is about keeping up your SnD, rupture, and expose with minimal clipping; extra combo points can just scuff the timings. At the end of the day, extra combo points only mean extra eviscerates, which is your lowest priority and worst spender
ahahahah "Censored" this guys a legend.
rofl at the censor on head 🤣
Not really related to this, but I wasted way too much time playing with wowsims regarding sunder/ea. TLDR is that's still too broken to be useful.
Using the settings from that google sheet warrior specs are the only ones that use heroism/throw at T0s. For rogues the earliest are between T2-4s. It always syncs those, but compared to other buffs/debuffs they're delayed unless you can apply either of those yourself (assuming that's the logic, i only tested warriors).
ToT glyph/cast does no additional DPS. That's obv fine unless you're looking to make a point about raid dps. The way sim does sunders they increase damage more than EA when either is applied by someone else. It relates to that T0 instant buff/debuff thing. 3 sunders in the first 3s is worth more than full "sunder" stacks with EA in the next 3s.
Way rogue EA rotation works is SS, SND, sometimes SS and then EA. The sim uses the 4th global or T3s for external application. Sunders on the other hand are coded as using the first 5 globals for just sunders. I'm sure there's 1/100 warriors that do it like that, but I've never played with one.
Anyways when you know the above you might be able to see why there is a much bigger difference with warriors in armor debuff duty vs pure zugzug than with rogues.
Other funny random things that the sim does for combat is that it always drops snd for the first time around T14s. That's when prepot drops off and the sim is convinced that the next free global is reserved for ToT and that's also the time you should refresh snd with the opener it uses. In a 2min fight it drops snd 1-3 times and EA 1-2 times.
Oh and the sim counts the self damage from sappers as DPS. You have to manually change that to only consider damage to the target. In a 2min fight warriors get about 20dps extra and rogues 5dps. No idea why those are so far away, since it logs the rage gain even when you manually fix the dps portion.
Sorry for this wall of text. I did it to justify fiddling with a broken sim for 10+ hours to prove that a rounding error isn't a good enough reason to carry warriors in phase1.
Head swap mid vid, very nice.
Any Guide for Chicken?
im confused. im comparing your parses to mine. and i see on alot of bosses you 99 but did less dps than compared to me and i 97 it. for example you did 7.5k on maxx and i did 7.7 and i 97 parse that. how is this possible? im runnning with no melee haste.
check your ilvl bracket with his ilvl bracket on the ilvl parse rank. people tend to use T6 bracer and belt to drop ilvl to around 203-206 ilvl bracket (instead of 213 ilvl bracket with naxx belt and bracers) to get higher parse number in that bracket. 213 ilvl bracket is fill chinese player parses ridiculous high that is literally cheating using automated 3rd software to literally perfect sim an actual boss fight ingame. So if you parsing legit at 213 ilvl bracket, your ilvl parse will be very low even if you are doing 7k-9k dps.
what is the best off hand p1 for combat rogue ? is sinister revenge of webbed death ?
webbed death, it gives you hit rating you need and 1.4 speed offhand to proc combat potency.
What about the rupture build for Mut sin
Been playing assa only as a rogue. Wanna tryout combat, any recommendatin for a good guide?
He made the wowhead combat rogue guide so check that one out, also join his discord
What's up with the mace specialization in the fish spec?
Because Rod of the Sun King edges out Felstriker as the better OH you would want to pair with Titansteel Spellblade MH.
I love the Karl Marx books behind.
Phase 2 bis ? :D
I do have to ask, and I may seem a fool, what, if ever, are the Subtlety talents used for? Are there builds that use that tree in part at all?
imo regular combat spec is underrated for its flexibility, the whole 2 spec sperging is so unnecessary unless you dont need a pvp spec
RIP backstab rogues
I use 51/13/7 spec but instead of putting point in Vigor I max Lethality @ 5/5. The only time the extra energy comes into play is when you initial burst. Good for PvP, but not a boss fight. Can somebody tell me why 10 max energy is better than 6% increased crit damage on basically your mutilate? Thanks!
It prevents overcapping energy and allows more freedom to hold back when you get lucky with multiple 4cp Mutilates B2B2B
@@MrHissyfit ahhh I see thanks! I have seen both specs so was curious.
@@MrHissyfit I'm told to wait to use envenom until it runs out to maximize damage, and so far that has been significant in boosting my DPS but most of the time I'm 1 or two seconds behind and I can't apply it in time because I only had enough energy for 1 Mutilate and it only gave 2 combo points. Should I just apply Envenom with only two or wait until I can apply another Mutilate and then use Envenom? I'm torn since most of our damage is poison but I don't know whether the inherent increased proc chance of Envenom is better than the Envenom poison damage it causes itself.
@@icebox1954 You'll rarely ever get more than 60-70% uptime on envenom even with the best crits and 1CP recoveries after finishers. Your aim should always be to get 2 Mutilates in after an Envenom (4 or 5CP) and to never Mutilate at 4CP. I generally pool energy to 60 and find it comfortable, you might like more. If you find yourself overcapping energy dump a rupture or spec Vigor to give you that additional 10 energy buffer. If it's a choice between capping energy out or overlapping an envenom, overlap it. If you have 2CP, use another Mutilate before an Envenom. You should never use low CP envenoms unless trying to maintain SnD.
@@MrHissyfit Okay. That makes sense. I've been doing it all wrong then, but to be fair you can't wait for two Mutilate in dungeons so you gotta just Envenom in those.
Thanks for the advice, I'll play accordingly.
why does one want 2 point in fleet footed, instead of 1 extra point in lethality ?
We need phase 2 BiS pleasssseeeee
It’s on his discord already
@@snazzel8312 What's his discord it's saying link expired for me
FIRST OMG KEK
confirmed first
Hey, wanted to join your discord but the invite link expired
so im really confused about the build so in the first video i watched of you you have 5/5 lethality and all the other sites say thats the basic build now i see you with 1 in vigor and 4/5 lethality and wowhead recomends that build as well is this the new build most people i see are still using the 5/5 lethality basic build @SimonizeShow