Helical Milling Attachment For The Milling Machine
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- G'day everyone,
This is the start of a long build series. In this first installment, I will need to figure out how to machine a large pitch thread for a large screw. Something in the region of 40mm and 8mm pitch. The lathe is far too small and not rigid enough, and even trying got do so I sheared several gears and bent the gear rocker.
With that out of the running, I decided to try my hand at helical milling. I have the dividing head, which is a rigid spindle and I will try to connect it to the table leadscrew to rotate it as I move the table.
One thing that I should have added but glossed over in the video, this design was meant as a one off for this project. The spacing between the gears is intended for only 45 and 90 tooth gears. Mostly because on time and materials , but also because if I used this gear train the pitch would be 8mm which is what I was after, and the spacing between the bottom and top gear would be 135mm which was the exact distance between the leadscrew and spindle. That just made the design easier and quicker to make. If you are looking to make this more universal I can't image that it would be too difficult to make a set up that allows you to move the spacing between the gears. Or add an encoder and stepper motor, which is a set up that oxtools has done ( • Dogmeat Helical Milling ). Cheers
#machining #millingmachine #helicalmilling
A ripper of an out of the box solution for the problem at hand! I'm impressed!
One thing that I should have added but glossed over in the video, this design was meant as a one off for this project. The spacing between the gears is intended for only 45 and 90 tooth gears. Mostly because of time and materials , but also because if I used this gear train the pitch would be 8mm which is what I was after (which was more appropriate than the 6mm pitch I was aiming for on the mini lathe), and the spacing between the bottom and top gear would be 135mm which was the exact distance between the leadscrew and dividing head spindle. That just made the design easier and quicker to make. If you are looking to make this more universal I can't image that it would be too difficult to make a set up that allows you to move the spacing between the gears. Or add an encoder and stepper motor, which is a set up that oxtools has done (ruclips.net/video/AVydTvwqmRs/видео.html). Cheers
Edit; Also this isn't an ACME thread, still deciding if/how to grind an acme profile endmill
30 deg tapered endmills are a thing, not cheap though. 8mm pitch acme (or trapezoidal I assume) ? What are you using such a large pitch for anyways ? You can grind a single flute tapered endmill, not sure how well it'd work for hogging out steel at that depth.
Came here to say exactly this. I use them at work all the time
Or piece of round HSS turned into a D bit cutter is pretty simple
The other thing you should have added was hacksawing
Have you seen Stefan Gotteswinter's video on thread milling on his lathe?
I suspect from the pitch you are wanting it might not work with your lathe.
Nice work.Thank you for sharing.
Maybe think about installing an automatic feed rate to your mills table, it will greatly increase tool life as it'll put less sudden stress on the tool
That is cool as hell! If you did it again do you think it would be worthwhile to consolidate the project on a fame that can index the dividing head with the drive coming off the lead screw? I like the thought of a frame with flats milled in for reference surfaces so set up is more plug and play. I also like the thought of an adjustable gear banjo so I could use the same set up for different gears. I “like” these thoughts but are they excessive to the task at hand?
noicceee
Why the long shaft on the middle gear?
No particular reason for it, I just handle parted off the bushing and thread that the gears run on
Electronic lathe leadscrew when
Came here to say: you could do this with the Clough42 ELS in one of three ways:
- traditional way, by implementing the ELS on your mini lathe, using single-point threading
- as above, but also add a mini-mill to the lathe cross slide rather than single-point threading
- or using your mill, but with the ELS set to encode from the mill lead screw and the servo/stepper driving the rotary table axis. The electronics and control unit would apply perfectly well, and would give you an easily-settable pitch for whatever you need. And I think it would be easier to implement (no gears) -- though certainly more costly for the encoder, motor, and electronics.
This is a lot of effort to replace a broom handle!
Broom handle? We’re cutting high pitch square threads
2:17 No offense but that tapping operation and subsequent retract hurt me in the deepest safe space of my soul
yeah, poor chuck
Hmm, I think the go-to solution for this would actually be the other way around: attach a dremel or other milling head to the toolpost of the lathe.
I have close to 200gb of footage trying to make it work that way, I kept stripping gears and poor finishes. I tried to make it work but it. Just wouldn’t
@@artisanmakes can you explain what stripped the gears? The forces on the gears should be very low, as the cutting is done by the mill. Turning of the mill should of course be done by hand, as else the mill would break
That’s very bizarre as its a common solution many adopt with little issue. Were the issues with difficulty getting it to work on your lathe in specific or more general?
@Jochem Bonarius he doesnt need to explain anything to you
@@jhbonarius mini lathes tend to run at high RPMs and the feed gears are limited in size: the mini lathes therefore tend to move the carriage awfully fast when threading even ~1mm / 20tpi threads (you often see mini lathe users preferring to manually rotate the spindle to thread as you suggest, or use dies instead). The limit comes often (in my experience, your mileage may vary) by the tendency of the cutter/dremel/milling bit to grab the work which exerts a vastly higher force on everything than when cutting smoothly and often in an opposing direction. Lathes struggle when cutting forces can suddenly change direction, whereas milling machines are designed to handle this better. It can be a particular problem with a Dremel because of the relatively low spindle rigidity.
I loved seeing all tools and bits you've made in prior videos used in this one 👌
I'm quite impressed that you managed to make it work in the end, well done!
i´f seen your vid where you build your own milling head and i found an old one with a diameter of 50mm laing around for I dont have any plates for if you want you can have it its from the german company Fette I would see that as a donation so that you dossent have to pay me the only problem I life in germany when your interestet write under the commt
You'll want a tailstock for any amount of stickout.
Brilliant trouble shooting and very neat solutions.
Never give up, never surrender!
By Grabthar's Hammer, by the Suns of Warvan, you shall be avenged.
This is awesome. I'm making nearly the same thing for my tabletop Atlas Horizontal milling machine. The design is nearly identical. Nice work!
hello, I noticed that for deeper cuts you don't use the power feed. If you are interested in my lathe, which is the same as yours, I have mounted a 110-tooth gear to improve the finish. in your case it might help
I think the limit on threading is you shouldn’t go coarser than the lead screw thread. 😀 That would be bad for the lathe....
My ears are very sensitive, and when there's a volume spike in your videos (like here, when you transition from talking to showing a video of the machines), my ears hurt.
I believe there should be an option for this in your video editing software. "Volume normalization", maybe. Anyways. If you can, please please please normalize the volume in your future videos. I would appreciate that very much :)
Something to help make your videos more enjoyable: your machine volume in these videos is much louder than your voice. I find myself continuously adjusting volume. Ideally the machines would be quieter or silent... Kind of hard to listen in bed when every little bit loud machine sounds wake the wife up 😅
Thaaaaaats pretty cool!
Nice work! From the look and sound of it, you run those little tools for all their worth, almost like a production shop. Really nice to see some serious work come out of them.
hello. Acme its a imperial pitch. 29 degree. Trapezoidal its metrical pitch. 30 degree. that the difference.
You are a tricky fox ;-)
Thanks for the inspiration!!!
when you were using the tailstock and the drill chuck to tap did you unfasten the morse taper to let it spin freely like that? Thanks for all your videos by the way they are very entertaining and helpful
pure genius idea.. Love it ! ... thinking outside the box pays off , enjoyed ..👍👍
how about fitting a electronic leadscrew
I'm not sure how you'll cut the fitting internal thread.
You are bonkers mate. And so bloody clever. Well done.
Very impressive. You should do a vid on how to calc those teeth
this was the project that led to you getting your new lathe im guessing?
This is a fantastic setup
.i needed a big worm cut some time back and i only thought about driving it through the crank handle inout of my dividing head...figuring out the math for your idea should be much simpler, plus its a simpler gear train then needing to go to a right angle also...love it
They say necessity is the mother of invention 🙂
Outstanding stuff! A lot of great ingenuity and thinking has gone into that.
From the video it looked like the rotation was occasionally stalling more specifically not consistent but from the look of the spiral on the helix it didn’t seem to show up.
Did the process look different in person or did it look fairly constant? I’m kinda curious
There is a bit of binding somewhere in the gear train that shows up as the cut stalling. Nothing detrimental but it shouldn’t be too difficult to find the source of it
So how do you figure the gears need for the pitch. Say i wanted a pitch that the groove travels 2-3 inches for every complete rotation
Well the table for my mill moved 2mm for every revolution of the hand wheel. So a 1:1 ratio between the leadscrew and dividing head is 2mm. To get a 2 inches of pitch you want the table to move 26 inches (x number of times) for one revolution of the DH.
You should be able to cut the acme thread on the lathe. Just not with a full form cutter, skinny cuts working across the width of the thread profile
Not on this lathe
Very clever. Good work sir!
Tool noises are mega harsh on this one
Nice, now how are you planning to cut the 14.5° angle of the acme profile? Is there an end mill with that angle?
Still tossing up between grinding an acme profile d bit cutter or going for a square thread. Either isn’t ideal but I’ll decide on what to do soon
That was well done. It gives me part of a solution for something I’m working on. Gilles
Merci
Thanks for sharing.
👍👍👍
⭐🙂👍
Nice.
This is going to be yet another nice series. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
Just curious, but since doing the motor swap, have you stalled it yet? And also have you enjoyed using it?
I was wondering if the equipment listed on your about page is up to date. I'm looking at buying a mill & lathe and am trying to figure out if I should buy new less expensive equipment or used equipment that may be a little larger & more expensive. Which would you chose if you had to do this again, especially since you have made so many upgrades to yours?
Sorry for jumping in, just my opinion, and by the way, I am a mechanic not a machinist.
I have had a minilathe like this, and I also have had a 210 lathe within the last 20 years.
Now I have a 320 lathe, and just my opinion, buy the biggest lathe (that makes sense) you can afford, if it is used, bring a gauge and check the runout on the main bearings, if runout is low, it is probably ok. If yoy buy a lathe too small, it will cost you more on upgrades than the bigger lathe, and it will still be skinny.
I have a "35" mill, that works fine as a drill press as well, I am happy I did not buy it smaller.
And by the way, the lathe is quite cheap when it comes to what you need to use it, the mill is a completely different story, you can easily throw a lot of money into accessories for the mill, if you can get one used with some accessories to it, it will save you a lot.
Sorry, it is a BF30 mill I have, not 35.
Very cool.
It's difficult to remember you get paid by content only so using undersized undersized is part of the mystique of your channel. Knowing this has given me the highest admiration for your work. Good luck!
quick tip a drill and a saw cutter is a high speed steel, dont run it to fast as a cutter 10 cm in diameter schould be running at around 100 rpm. there steel if u go to fast your work peace wil stick to the cutter giving you poor finish
was wondering why you wanted 6mm pitch then made the gearset for 8mm. then i read your pinned comment. please disregard this message 🤣
the lack of bearings or other supports for those shafts concerns me...
This is a teriffic effort, thanks for sharing. I am very keen to see the follow up.
Im impressed man nice job. I may have to copy your design since ive got the same dividing head
Cheers. Much cheaper than getting a. Universal type dividing head
@@artisanmakes that's for sure
I don't quite understand the use of the steady rest when turning one part. A steady rest is normally only used to make a centering hole or a recess for a center point on a long part that does not fit in the spindle bore, at most to make a hole for a thread, but not to make a fit on the part. As shown, the surface will not be smooth and accurate enough.
For a thread with this width of the thread flight, you also first take a narrow turning steel and make the thread flight wider only when you are at full depth. If the thread steel already has the full width of the profile at the beginning, the cutting pressure is of course much too great for such a small lathe.
Yes this would be correct for a normal lathe, but for such a small lathe its just there to bolster rigidity where the tailstock can not provide enough support.
And youd be right for the second part but as i'd already sunk enough time trying to get the carriage to move I pretty switched top the helical milling. I doubt even with using a smaller tool to do the roughing I could form the required thread
I love to see people solving problems! Thank you for sharing:)
You did a fantastic job.🙂🙂
The old atlas lathe i have has a gear train on a part called a banjo, which would let you put different gear combinations together for about any pitch. I lenthened mine to add 4 sets of gears insteadof3. Very simple design and adjustable to get what you need.
could have used a softer but temperable steel and keep it cold when you work it?
i'm new here but i really do like the videos and i have pretty much gone through all of them and watched them now i'm looking into a mini lathe myself be cause my makerstore oxbelt cnc router is awesome but you can only make so much with it keep up the good work
thank you for not speeding everything up like everyone else does!
Nice one!!! What about pulleys? Less rigid, I know, but would you consider those as an optional setup?
It it was a timing belt pulley I’m sure you could get a set up that could work
Your ingenuity is an inspiration for many of us.👍👍
Excellent innovative idea, nicely done. 👌
impressive. very impressive. to actually do it oldschool with gears rather than resort to steppers and coding. always feels more reliable. one missed step and bang... cant do that with gears. as long as you do the calculations right.
3D printer is handy for change gears. the forces shouldnt be that high.. depends on leads really. i still have my 15+ yr old gears on my lathe in service.
it may be "fixed" but remember, you can mess around with the ratio on the same center distances in the same module as long as the total number of teeth stays the same... ie, 90+30=120, so can be 60:60, 45:75, etc...
a tumbler/idler to reverse the rotation...
change gears... wait until you do "continuous fractions"... figuring out the ratios from given change gears to get an approximate as what you want isnt a neat integer.
making custom gears seems easier to get those oddball leads.
a rarely mentioned method of getting unachievable leads is by canting the table over at the sin of of the lead... much like setting a compound slide over for getting a 10:1 resolution.
the cutter still has to be tilted to match the helix angle of course. only works if you have a swiveling table.
That is definitely one advantage with using gears
By chance are you going to make a fly press?
Now that would be an interesting project to share with us.
Possibly
I wonder if a more versatile solution to your problem would have been to make some sort of small milling head to attach to the tool post and use the lathe to cut the thread. The lathe cbange gears should stand up to the lesser forces required, especially if you use light cuts. Since the leadscew has to turn faster then the lathe spindle, powering the leadscrew (eg. with a hand crank) with the reduction gears transmitting the rotation to the lathe spindle would also make things easier and smoother.
I have one and they just aren’t rigid enough to take the cuts that I will need here
Were you not able to find a driven universal dividing head? Granted, it is what you made with the spindle drive.
Elegant solution.
I looked at buying one two years ago but their price is well outside what I can justify for a hobby
Impressive milling!
very clever.
Ouch ! See 2:18 to 2:27 and look how much the tap was deflecting - particularly noticeable when retracting.
this could also work well if an angle grinder was used as/or instead of a mill with a cutting/slotting blade, and if you wanted trapezoid threads you would roll the grinder left and right with a skinny wheel on it doing shallow cuts to get nice even smooth cuts.
Please consider longer bids 30mins is ideal.
Lol, get a decent lathe, dude!
Lol, hush now, silly face