Magic was a big reason why I stopped playing in 8th... having a 100point wizard remove entire 400point units with 1 lucky spell was ridiculous. Or having a wizard make a unit into toughness 1 and then having 50 crossbow -1ap shots often with rerolls to hit and then needing 2+'s to wound was just ridiculous. Magic now seems a lot more supportive rather than game winning as a stand alone. Thanks for this, may relook at getting back in
There’s a lot of ‘how the mighty have fallen’ spells. Absolute terrors of 8th like Mindrazor, Dwellers, Gateway, have all a massive downshift in power - thank goodness! Although plague of rust plus wood elf shooting …. Ouch
Thanks for the detailed breakdown, seems like exploring the different lore combos with different lists will be great fun. The inability to dispel magic whilst engaged is pretty big, taking high level wizards for their proficiency to dispel magic is sometimes just as important as their ability to cast spells. Wizards that are viable combat unit, such as a daemon prince may be better kept at a low caster level, as it’s a waste of points to have them in melee and thus unable to dispel.
Thanks for the breakdown, a lot of interesting choices. I really love that the ability to dispel is tied to being close to the enemy wizard. Adds a lot of risk/reward to positioning your caster, especially when there's a possibility they could get charged and be unable to cast or dispel at all!
Loving these videos. Keep them coming! I quite like the way they've approached magic here. The dispel ranges will be interesting to see play out with the large number of shorter range spells. I'm glad there are so many books in the Empire!
Super useful summary, liking the fact that there’s some interesting stuff here with combined potential but nothing obviously totally OP. Looking forward to the USR video!
Yeah but 3 of the 6 spells are about stopping movement and 2 of them can be stop in the enemies turn cause of the remain in play. Mind razor is bad unless you can combine it with Necromancy. Spectral doppelganger is only good if your wizard has a great weapon or magic weapon. (unlikely) Shimmering dragon look like a escape spell for the mage. May be good for wood elf or high elves ranged army but they have battle and high magic also.
@@grlmgor what about putting it on a level 1 inside an elite unit? Harder to cast, obviously, but no wastage of spells, and great bonus on a unit like that.
@@Alf_Hairy-arse Glitter robe is good spell but once your in combat you cant cast spells apart from assailment spells. Also level 1 and 3 are waste of point as you get so much more value out of the 30 point upgrade. Also casting it against a level 4 will be really hard but not impossible.
With you making a tier list, I assume you are quite knowledgeable, would you mind explaining something for me? (I'm getting back in to it and haven't played since something like 5th or 6th) I'm going to play Tomb Kings and on watching this video I thought the elemental spells seemed better than necromancy. You have ranked them differently so I'm hoping to pick your mind on the reasoning for your ranking of these two? What have I missed?
@@Alf_Hairy-arse *Spiritual Vortex* I would rate as one of the best spells in the game. Creating a 5" dangerous terrain can be good at stoping cavalry but then you get a 21" template (8"+5"+8") that reduces every ones leadership by 1. To make it even better they cant use the generals leadership which would be another 1 or 2 leadership higher. While it is a remain in play spell which would be a negative. Atleast has a high casting value and works in your turn unlike most remains in play spells. Also having access to Nehekharan Phanlanx (option of not giving ground) and been unbreakable you can place a dangerous terrain behind a unit your in combat with, waiting till you push them back into it. *Spirit leach* another good spell as Necromancy is Tomb King only atm. So it would be great for your casket of soul and any terror causing monster. *Curse of years* Make people easier to hit and wound is always nice. *Unquiet Spirits* Is an decent magic missile but can be great against human or elven cavalry. *Spectral Steed* Can be useful moving heroes into a fresh units so they don't crumble. Also ethereal can keep you alive. *Deathlu Cabal* Give a unit terror and a 6+ ward can be good but you got to be incombat to get the most out of it. Elemental has some great spell to like Plague of Rust, Wind Blast and Earthen Ramparts but the others aren't as good. Taking a level 4 with Necromancy and a level 2 with Elemental would still be a very good combo.
I have a question - can a spell, for example "fireball", be cast only once during a turn, even if you have two or more wizards with fireball, or can each of them cast the fireball spell (once for each of them) ?
There is question on my mind since I don't have the book and somebody said something like this "you can't cast magic missile if you marched" ... Is this true (you said you can in video for fireball but just crosschecking)
Bit late on this. But Vampire Legacy spells...Hellish Vigour has +9/+12 AND +7/+10 in its discription. Would assume the main body of text is the more likely to have been copy/pasted in error, but on the otherside seen a few people suggest it SHOULD be the +7/+10 as this is similar to the TK variant....anyone know if theres been clarification on this?
Thanks for the video - great run down. Elementalism definitely seems like a bit of a duff one, especially from the perspective of Bretonnia and Wood Elves. Plague of Rust is amazing - and would be brutal into a big 2+ or 3+ save unit taking a lance charge - but a gamble that you’ll get it. Earthern Ramparts is nice enough, but lots of units you’d want to cast it on would want to march or charge. Wind Blast is nice enough, but shame it isn’t a hex that could l be used to expose a flank for you to charge. Other than them, it feels very mediocre, which is a shame - doubt I’d ever run it over Battle or Illusion.
I keep looking for some clarification on this, but only have really poorly shot screen grabs of the big blue book: If a spell doesn't have a range of 'Self', can it be cast on the unit the Wizard is in?
no its cast on the wizard - but it does usually say "the wizard and unit they are in" so basically it does take effect on the unit as well in that case
depends on the spell some will end other hexes on the unit - I dont think there is any restriction about multiple hexes other than this and same one doesnt stack
I think it's great that magic is needed. It was downright abusive in 8th edition and frankly removed a core aspect of the game of tactics and turned it into just rolling dice to nuke the opponent.
Seems like 1st Level Wizards are going to be nothing more than Dispel bots, which seems a little disappointing. Also not being able to pick your spells also makes lower level Wizards a lot weaker.
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Magic was a big reason why I stopped playing in 8th... having a 100point wizard remove entire 400point units with 1 lucky spell was ridiculous. Or having a wizard make a unit into toughness 1 and then having 50 crossbow -1ap shots often with rerolls to hit and then needing 2+'s to wound was just ridiculous.
Magic now seems a lot more supportive rather than game winning as a stand alone.
Thanks for this, may relook at getting back in
Magic is super impactful but it defo feels like support rather than 6 dice super spell to win now
Necromancy - 14:31
Battle - 22:08
Daemonology - 29:04
Dark - 35:29
Elementalism - 40:45
High - 45:29
Illusion - 49:57
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAGH - 53:52
There’s a lot of ‘how the mighty have fallen’ spells. Absolute terrors of 8th like Mindrazor, Dwellers, Gateway, have all a massive downshift in power - thank goodness!
Although plague of rust plus wood elf shooting …. Ouch
That's a great way to express that! I remember the madness of 8th fondly but I am glad they have been toned down now!
Thanks for the detailed breakdown, seems like exploring the different lore combos with different lists will be great fun. The inability to dispel magic whilst engaged is pretty big, taking high level wizards for their proficiency to dispel magic is sometimes just as important as their ability to cast spells. Wizards that are viable combat unit, such as a daemon prince may be better kept at a low caster level, as it’s a waste of points to have them in melee and thus unable to dispel.
Glad you enjoyed the vid! Also you are totally right here - This is what makes magic really interesting to me!
Many thanks Russ, I’m liking High Magic on a Slann built to dispel & occasionally cast a biggy… might work, time will tell 🤷♂️
yeah decent on Slaans - but then its not official :D
Thanks for the breakdown, a lot of interesting choices.
I really love that the ability to dispel is tied to being close to the enemy wizard. Adds a lot of risk/reward to positioning your caster, especially when there's a possibility they could get charged and be unable to cast or dispel at all!
yeah its such a simple set of rules which add a lot of tactical depth
Loving these videos. Keep them coming!
I quite like the way they've approached magic here. The dispel ranges will be interesting to see play out with the large number of shorter range spells. I'm glad there are so many books in the Empire!
Glad you like them! and yes I am a big fan of magic in this edition - It feels really impactful but not ultimate game ending
Great info, cant wait for the rulebook to get shipped!
thanks and fingers crossed!
Super useful summary, liking the fact that there’s some interesting stuff here with combined potential but nothing obviously totally OP. Looking forward to the USR video!
Thanks - yeah coming in next couple days!
49:30 i see like wood elfspell singer caster 4 on forest dragon ;] with HIgh magick it will be fun
Really enjoying the content bru. I’m pretty excited about coming back to warhammer.
Glad to hear it! me too!
Really great run down, the top down on the cards helps too. I am quite fancying that -1 to hit from the illusion signature.
Yeah but 3 of the 6 spells are about stopping movement and 2 of them can be stop in the enemies turn cause of the remain in play.
Mind razor is bad unless you can combine it with Necromancy.
Spectral doppelganger is only good if your wizard has a great weapon or magic weapon. (unlikely)
Shimmering dragon look like a escape spell for the mage.
May be good for wood elf or high elves ranged army but they have battle and high magic also.
thanks! yeah I like it on a support wiz
@@grlmgor what about putting it on a level 1 inside an elite unit? Harder to cast, obviously, but no wastage of spells, and great bonus on a unit like that.
@@Alf_Hairy-arse Glitter robe is good spell but once your in combat you cant cast spells apart from assailment spells.
Also level 1 and 3 are waste of point as you get so much more value out of the 30 point upgrade.
Also casting it against a level 4 will be really hard but not impossible.
@@grlmgor With the legacy factions, we can have Keeper of Secrets casting illusion spells as level 4 wizard!
Can only swap 1 spell total right? If you generate 4 spells, you couldn't swap out 1 for the school and then one for your special school?
thats right
*S Tier:* High, Daemonology
*A Tier:* Necromancy, Waaagh
*B Tier:* Battle, Elementalism
*C Tier:* Dark
*D Tier:* Illusion
not a bad assessment - I didn't want to tier list them this early on but I agree High and Daemonology are great
With you making a tier list, I assume you are quite knowledgeable, would you mind explaining something for me? (I'm getting back in to it and haven't played since something like 5th or 6th)
I'm going to play Tomb Kings and on watching this video I thought the elemental spells seemed better than necromancy. You have ranked them differently so I'm hoping to pick your mind on the reasoning for your ranking of these two? What have I missed?
@@Alf_Hairy-arse *Spiritual Vortex* I would rate as one of the best spells in the game. Creating a 5" dangerous terrain can be good at stoping cavalry but then you get a 21" template (8"+5"+8") that reduces every ones leadership by 1. To make it even better they cant use the generals leadership which would be another 1 or 2 leadership higher.
While it is a remain in play spell which would be a negative. Atleast has a high casting value and works in your turn unlike most remains in play spells.
Also having access to Nehekharan Phanlanx (option of not giving ground) and been unbreakable you can place a dangerous terrain behind a unit your in combat with, waiting till you push them back into it.
*Spirit leach* another good spell as Necromancy is Tomb King only atm. So it would be great for your casket of soul and any terror causing monster.
*Curse of years* Make people easier to hit and wound is always nice.
*Unquiet Spirits* Is an decent magic missile but can be great against human or elven cavalry.
*Spectral Steed* Can be useful moving heroes into a fresh units so they don't crumble. Also ethereal can keep you alive.
*Deathlu Cabal* Give a unit terror and a 6+ ward can be good but you got to be incombat to get the most out of it.
Elemental has some great spell to like Plague of Rust, Wind Blast and Earthen Ramparts but the others aren't as good.
Taking a level 4 with Necromancy and a level 2 with Elemental would still be a very good combo.
Way underrating illusion being able to drop the terrain template is huge.
@@keithsimpson2685 While it can be useful it short range and you get 2 attempts to dispel it before your movement phase IMO.
Hi, where can i found on your channel - lore of the lady spells?
Regards
When i do the Bret deep dive - not done yet (coming soon!)
I have a question - can a spell, for example "fireball", be cast only once during a turn, even if you have two or more wizards with fireball, or can each of them cast the fireball spell (once for each of them) ?
as far as I believe there is no restriction on multiple different wizards casting the same spell if they know it
Great videos thanks! This was interesting as I play dwarfs so good to see what I’m up against, if nothing else! 😆
yeah I really like how Dwarves feel like they used to but also a bit more power in combat dwarf units - I think the stunties are great now
Would a Tomb Kings Priest on Bone Dragon and Illusion Spell #5 cause that the 2D6 hits are made with the dragon's profile?
There is question on my mind since I don't have the book and somebody said something like this "you can't cast magic missile if you marched" ... Is this true (you said you can in video for fireball but just crosschecking)
Thanks for point this out. Yeah a unit cannot March and cast a magic missile or Vortex.
So the Doppelganger spell say you cast it while on a Dragon can you use the mounts weapons, ergo the mount does 2d6 with say its maw attack?
Bit late on this. But Vampire Legacy spells...Hellish Vigour has +9/+12 AND +7/+10 in its discription.
Would assume the main body of text is the more likely to have been copy/pasted in error, but on the otherside seen a few people suggest it SHOULD be the +7/+10 as this is similar to the TK variant....anyone know if theres been clarification on this?
Thanks for the video - great run down. Elementalism definitely seems like a bit of a duff one, especially from the perspective of Bretonnia and Wood Elves. Plague of Rust is amazing - and would be brutal into a big 2+ or 3+ save unit taking a lance charge - but a gamble that you’ll get it. Earthern Ramparts is nice enough, but lots of units you’d want to cast it on would want to march or charge. Wind Blast is nice enough, but shame it isn’t a hex that could l be used to expose a flank for you to charge. Other than them, it feels very mediocre, which is a shame - doubt I’d ever run it over Battle or Illusion.
thanks! Agree, time will tell these are just my first impressions so who knows, might end up being a couple clutch spells in there
Elementalism spells have lower casting overall, so would be good on a level 2 mage.
@@grlmgor yeah that's a good point
Waaagh!
can enchantment spells be cast on the unit the wizard has joined?
I believe so - yes
I keep looking for some clarification on this, but only have really poorly shot screen grabs of the big blue book: If a spell doesn't have a range of 'Self', can it be cast on the unit the Wizard is in?
no its cast on the wizard - but it does usually say "the wizard and unit they are in" so basically it does take effect on the unit as well in that case
@@FaceHammer I think you misread my question. Let me rephrase it. If an enchantment spell has a range X", can it be cast on the unit the wizard is in?
If a unit has a ward save and you cast a spell that give a ward, do they stack to a max of 3+?
nope - just use the best
Can you put both curse of arrow attraction and plague of rust on the same unit in the same phase? Or 1 hex max?
depends on the spell some will end other hexes on the unit - I dont think there is any restriction about multiple hexes other than this and same one doesnt stack
Cheers bud@@FaceHammer
Can you stack enchament spells in same unit?
depends if the spell says "effect ends all other" on it, you can't have multiple of the same spell tho thats outlined in the rules
Does anyone know if you can cast magic missiles at different targets? So if you have 3 magic missile spells could you cast them at different targets?
believe so - you cast them all individually
I think it's great that magic is needed. It was downright abusive in 8th edition and frankly removed a core aspect of the game of tactics and turned it into just rolling dice to nuke the opponent.
100% agree - its so much better now
sadly old world map is no longer print it change to missing goblin ;[
Wierd that there is no "Raise Dead" spell in "Necromancy"
Tomb kings liche have their own skill to raise dead.
@@grlmgor cool, i hope vampire counts pdf rules have raise dead too
I assume these will be special signature spells or abilities - for example Liche priests raise via an ability not a spell
😊😊
Seems like 1st Level Wizards are going to be nothing more than Dispel bots, which seems a little disappointing. Also not being able to pick your spells also makes lower level Wizards a lot weaker.
can always swap to a signature tho
@FaceHammer I guess I am thinking from the Bretonnian perspective and their Signature spell options aren't as good.
Great video, but the backgrounds on your slides are terrible to read on!
Sorry about that! will try and make the text clearer next time