@Fat Rat Well, you're simply mistaken. What they are doing is just good engineering practice, just as they are using the Harman / Toole "spinerama" measurements in their design process and marketing. If anything, I'm copying the Celestion Ditto PR from the 60's and 70's in our design and implementation across multiple models. PR's are quite good with low tuning with high excursion drivers and small enclosure (where ports become problematic). Often times, PRs are designed somewhat incorrectly where they are too stiff in compliance, with rather high losses and non-linearity etc.. which gave them a bad hifi reputation at times, but done well, they can be very good.
Another thing to consider is the dynamic range of the amplifier. Your 1200 WPC amp may not sound so good if you’re speaker efficiency is 95 dBs or higher because the noise floor of the amp may obscure very quiet passages. Amplifiers are nonlinear at both ends of their dynamic window. If you know roughly how many watts gets you to a comfy listening level, +20dBs headroom will be adequate. Too much more and you’re crowding the noise floor of the amp, potentially.
Another good educational video. Paul understands how the best salesmen are good educators and if the new understanding lands a sale, then wonderful! Everybody wins. :-)
Well Paul... let me tell you something: those cheesy speakers you just touched are Buchardt S400. How do I know? Simple: I have the Stellar stack and those speakers. And let me tell you: the combo sounds amazing! However, I'm waiting for your Stellar floor standing. I hope they come out soon.
I've learned that when some people are drunk they turn things up louder than they normally would and they don't even hear the distortion so the speakers get fried.
It's usually better to rent a PA system for a night than to "borrow your fiend's speakers" for a party. Because only a PA system can deliver drunkard levels of music.
Been there I got drunk and listened to music so loud I tripped my breaker but the good news is my klipsch speakers and subs are ok klipsch didn’t distort and could have went louder if not for my avr topping out at 98db on the volume knob
Well, it is a $70 woofer and a $20 tweeter he was glancing at. To him, it is a bit cheesy, I guess. It is a great 6” woofer for $70 imho, but it is the engineering and the crossover that makes that speaker work well.
Derek that’s what I have first hand knowledge on. My little brother smoked my speakers by clipping them during a house party while I was out. I could have strangled the little shit. 😎
@@ilovecops6255 No. Heat is energy. It can be measured in joules, calories, or BTU. Power is a measure of energy per unit time. It can be measured in watts or horsepower.
@@timharig Notte so.. 1,500-Watt Oil-Filled Radiant Electric Space Heater with Thermostat. 3 heater settings 600/900/1500-Watt, Safety auto shut-off and Safety tip-over switch. With adjustable thermostat, power indicator light, heavy duty casters wheels, convenient cord wrap and easy carrying handle. Whole room quiet radiant heat. HEAT IS mesure in wattes!
@@ilovecops6255 www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-work-energy-d_292.html Heaters are rated by their power output. Rating them by their heat would make no sense since you could achieve any amount of heat by running the heater for a set amount of time. What matters is how fast they can give off heat. That is a measure of power.
@@timharig i know its wah i sed fir time, HEAT = POWER = horsepower or kilowattes. BHP os Brake Hosepower, Indicated hosepwoer is from an indicator card - THEY SI 2 DIFFRENT THINGES!
Thank you for that confirmation . On my channel i talk about how the polk audio Lsim 703s are very hard to drive so i put 265 watts of class AB power to each speaker 3 amps total 2 mono amps 100 watt at 8 ohm 1 each for HF then a dual mono amp at 165 watts at 8 ohms each channel driving the LF so almost 4 amps in a way one amp having 2 amps built inside , and at 5 watts the 703s were sparkling i uploaded the video on my channel 703s rated at 200 watts at 8 ohms why because Bi-amped and big VU meters !
Yes, I could not agree more with you about the Polk LSiM 703. They do require a whole lot of power just to get them singing. But they do sound incredible when they have the power they need. I love your videos and channel. Thanks and keep them coming!
Some amplifers sound better when pushed close to their maximum power than others. All depends on the 2nd to 3rd harmonic distortion ratio, and how much it changes/increases with power output. Its also important how well a big amp sounds at relatively low power output. Larger watt amp most of the time more complex, has more (slower) devices, cannot be biased as high due to heat in case of class AB. Speakers also have a distortion spectrum that changes with SPL. Some poeple prefer an amp/speakers that changes sonic character when pushed to add life and excitement. No amp should be struggling though controlling the speakers or become harsh, losing imaging and soundstage when pushed where you want it to go (extreme volumes you dont listen at does not really matter much). The power rating of an amp is not always an accurate indication of how well it will handle high output or difficult loads. Some lower power amps may drive low impedances quite well where current capability and stability matters. Due to the ear’s changing frequency response relative to SPL you need to find an amp and speaker combination that sounds good at the intended listening volume. The size and acoustics of the room will also affect the sound level and quality. Due to the logarithmic nature of sound pressure, it is not that far fetched to use a 150w amp when the average demand is 30w. Real (usefull) headroom requires at least 4 times the average power. In most cases with average speakera and rooms, a good sounding 100w will suffice.
Where do you sell the stuff people trade in??? Is it listed online somewhere, or what? Just interested in checking out what people have sent in...may be something on their I could afford until I'm able to afford some PS Audio equipment.
I couldn't. Had to refresh the page, but I finally got it. & Damn, they're milking that stuff for every penny they can get apparently. I've seen some of the stuff they have for a lot less elsewhere.
Occasionally, I drive in the mountains. There, I encounter peaks and valleys which challenge my car. I'd rather have 100 horsepower, than 50HP. Either engine will get the job done, but the one with more power has an easier time of it.
@Fat Rat Oh, heaven's no... that much quality would have cost at least $5 more. I've needed to settle for 90% THD. Best is I have full range from 1000-3500, so the vocals are nice.
At a party I once killed my set of speakers with the clipping from an amp that didn't have enough power. Never damaged speakers with an amp that is much stronger than required.
If you have more power you are less likely to encounter clipping, that where the amplifier runs out of power. Clipping is where the distortion comes from, and that is what damages speakers. I drove a pair of speakers rated at 125 watts per channel with 2 amplifiers , bi amping 200 watts channel bass and 150 watts channel treble and midrange they sounded great, I did not drive the amps to clipping but they were playing loud without distortion, because there was plenty of power. Always better with more than less . The one time I damaged speakers was with a 30 watt receiver.
The main concern I have using very high power amps with smaller speakers is the occasional accident of an RCA cable being pulled to the point where the ground connection is lost and having a high voltage from the mains noise feeding into a line level input. Suddenly you get 50 or 60Hz at clipping level and your power amp running at max power. Give it a few seconds and smoke can arise. Otherwise I agree and what is good about the extra power otherwise is that any peaks in the music will not get easily clipped as the voltage rails in the amp are high enough.
Call me biased because I have a pair but, Paul obviously hasn't listened to those Buchardt s400 speakers yet. They are rated for 200 watts RMS but I have seen them take over 300 from a Jeff Rowland Amp.
I have to agree with Nelson Pass that the first watt is the most important. Most hifi listeners, in a home environment, aren't going to use more than a few watts typically. I'd rather have a low powered amplifier that sounds great at reasonable volumes than a monster amp that needs to be cranked to earsplitting levels to hit its sweet spot.
Back in the early 1990s before I soundproofed my listening room, our neighbor threatened to report me to the police for playing my stereo too loud despite of only using my DIY Mullard 3-watt tube amp and my early protorype DIY loudspeakers. "Sadly" the set up can reach undistorted unamplified drum kit garage rock sound levels even with the volume control at the 6 o'clock position.
re: The Firesign Theatre (1974) an excerpt from "The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra" featuring the famous defective Hemlock Stones and his patient doctor and biographer John Flotsom, O.D. '. . . secreted at the Temple of Ampere-Watt was the sacred Ohm-Watt-Amp: the amplifier of unlimited power, the useless tool, the Tube from Heaven.' Or words to that effect from the increasingly glitchy memory of this archaic slushware. Beware The Electrician! Or someone like him (1968).
@Fat Rat Not directly, but it is always good to hear from you. Sumatra and Sidney are much closer together than I (or the Los Angeles based Firesign Theatre) am to either.
@@Larstig81 It's much more about power handling. Multiply by two and you should be in the sweet spot for amount of power you should have. So if you have power handling of 200 watts, a 400 watt amp will have more than enough headroom. This is very much a simplification though. But it can be a spot to work out from.
I was just checking my overhead light last night, I flipped the switch and it took a very slight amount of time to light the light. The quantum of the physics might or might not explain the phenomenon. I think of it as a loose rope effect only now with FLUX waves of energy. More power forces the wave activity easier than a weak amp no matter if within a wire or in the wire surround. For me most of the advantage has not much to do with volume of sound from the speaker, instead, it's the ability to control the waves.
I was in an audio store recently and the had Klipsch La Scalas hooked up to a 300 watt McIntosh amplifier. Those speakers are supposed to be 106db at 1 watt. I don't understand how that would make sense. It seems that they would be served by a much smaller amplifier. I don't see how you would ever get to the edge of the sweet spot with such efficient speakers.
having much more efficient speakers than is necessary is a good idea. I use a pair that has a compression driver tweeter thats 108db sensitivity hooked up to 500 watts at 8 ohms. But then I use a 30db in line attenuator before the speaker. It cuts down any noise or hiss and gives beautiful results.
Personally, I would have gone with the MC275 Mk. VI with KT88s rated at 2 x 75 watts from the 4, 8, and 16 ohm taps, but that's just me. I can't afford any of that wonderful kit, but its fun to dream.
@@stephensmith3111 Yeah I've owned a couple of mcintosh pieces. Love the sound, but I've found in my audiophile travels that the biggest difference really is made by the speakers. Going active with a deqx and using high effciency drivers with 30db attenuation has changed my perspective on audiophilia. I use an Edge electronics amplifier with 6 channels each using an ICEpower 500asp. When it was built it would have costed $8-10K for the amp. If you are diy-er you can buy the amps on partsexpress now for $350 each. Excellent clean power.
@@Canadian_Eh_I Absolutely. Everything in the audio chain matters to some extent, but the sound producing loudspeakers (or headphones) matter most. Once upon a time, I assembled a Hafler DH 200 power amp kit that did not burst into flames and sounded quite good to my much younger ears, but that was about two score years ago. As a government certified old dude now, my relatively modest "get off the merry-go-round system" (re: Sam Tellig) is far more than adequately good for the down-sized life of a retired small apartment dweller. But, as I said it's fun to dream. Enjoy your music.
Too bad, people are idiots. If the volume knob has the ability to go around another 75%, some screwball is going to turn it that far and damage the speakers. Although you are correct in your analysis to astute audiophiles and technicians, it doesn't apply to common Electrophonic brand stereo buyers. They always think that if the knob goes around some more, the speakers shouldn't blow. And you have to include the party problem. Some fool at your party will turn it up and blow out your speakers while you are answering the door or getting more drinks.you never once mentioned that with higher power, you cannot expect to be able to crank your amp all the way up.
Paul does't know about the famous little Buchardt 300 & 400s????!!!! (Well, they're expensive and their drivers are not cheesy at all! You should give a listen to them Paul, the employee that traded them in did well). Ok, all accepted except for one thing: When your loudspeaker has an upper acceptable RMS wattage rating and you're listening to new music loud, you should know whether this music becomes extremely and abruptly louder, later on, for an extended period of time, because this might cause your big amp to push higher than the rated maximum wattage, for a long time, and that might fry your drivers, If you're not close enough (you're in another room, for instance) to come and lower the volume immediately. For instance, if you're listening to Mahler or Wagner at their low passages and you're tempted to hear them at a high volume, then, when the grant and slam of the whole orchestra build up, you'll have to be there and lower the volume, or your precious voice-coils (and cones and domes and ribbons) will be in danger!
I live by, it's easier to pull the horse's reins back then it is to push them forward. But at the same time, people that need machines to tell them they have bad sound probably wont notice distortion and clipping happening until its to late anyway. But then again, from what I understand, under powering speakers is also bad. People have a tendency to push their amps to far into the crap zone under powered. IDK though, I personally have speakers (all of them) that are over rated for their amps. Just because when I buy speakers I usually buy them to keep. If you have a 500 watt amp and 200 watt speakers sure there is a big sweet spot and less work on the amp but there is also a big area you will fry them to. It's all fun and game until $hit starts smoking. Got a low recording? Pump up the power and before you know it you are pumping 300 watts into your 200 watt speakers. I would rather my speakers laugh at my amp then my amp laugh at my speakers. The real question to Paul should have been, how much power does he drive his IRS V's with and what are they are rated for? If he has a over powered amp hooked up to them will he let anyone in the room to play it knowing that the speakers max out at volume knob setting 15 when it goes to 50?
I don't see how having hundreds of watts of power in an amp is useful at all, unless you want to deffen yourself,, using a faily efficient pair of speakers, a 50watt amp would be addiqate for normal listening. Don't get all caught up in the,, my amps bigger than yours bushit.
Paul, you missed his entire point. It's not so you can run a rock concert from your home, it's so that you're not stressing the amp and it's power supply. The result is pure sound without any distortion. No bullshite.
@@jamesplotkin4674 hi James,, I get what he's saying, but I ran a 50 watt amp on 90 dB speakers, sitting around 4 meter away and honestly I couldn't listen past half way on the vol. Not because the sound was stressed or distortion played a part it was simply too loud, just saying, it's like having a Bugatti and strolin around at 30,, what's the point. Most folks do that though, just so they can tell you they have a Bugatti, makes me cringe tbh.
“Cheesey little speakers” c’mon Paul you should at least know what you’re looking at. An early version of your entry speakers use the same passive radiator and you’ve said many times how you don’t like passive radiators. What’s up with you?
I found that any amp that is rated at 150w - 200w at 8ohms and will handle decently down to 2ohms is more than enough unless you have a room of 3,000 sq feet and want to hit 120dB min 😂🤣
Fat Rat ... I produce for concerts. At one rave event we were throwing the sound up to the 60m mark. Was maybe just a mere 80dB by then. In front we are prob well into the 120dB range Can’t do that Down Under due to the sound restrictions. I think it’s only allowed to be in the high 90’s. 😬
Here's a CLUE: Why the 'committee' gave Thumbs Down to the PS Speaker Cab design . . . You can't put extraneous crap on top of the speaker! I love the design, but the top sloping down isn't conducive to placement of manuals, small equipment, coffee cups, and flowers.
With today's super compressed CDs you don't need much power as there are no peaks in the music. But if you listen to music with a lot of dynamic range like my direct to disc LPs you do need power as there are lots of peaks.
That was not the answer I expected BUT I'm delighted to hear your educated theory Paul! I feel the same way! Thanks buddy!
Those are the highly acclaimed Buchardt S400, Paul. C'mon, get with the program! 😄
...and they will take all the clean power you can feed them.
@Fat Rat He should be carefully about doing that.
S400 are proberly pattern protected.
You need to see this one:
ruclips.net/video/4RTekjijV2I/видео.html
@Fat Rat just sayimg
I am not the police nor have any involvent in this.
@Fat Rat Well, you're simply mistaken. What they are doing is just good engineering practice, just as they are using the Harman / Toole "spinerama" measurements in their design process and marketing. If anything, I'm copying the Celestion Ditto PR from the 60's and 70's in our design and implementation across multiple models. PR's are quite good with low tuning with high excursion drivers and small enclosure (where ports become problematic). Often times, PRs are designed somewhat incorrectly where they are too stiff in compliance, with rather high losses and non-linearity etc.. which gave them a bad hifi reputation at times, but done well, they can be very good.
Why do i now think of Jeremy Clarkson screaming 'POWERRRR!!!' ??
You mean paaaaawaaaaa
"Old school and the better for it." Or was that James May.
Hammond ..... Hammond !!! 😁😁
@@rainman3269 Yup, Clarkson, Hammond, and May. The classic power trio.
Another thing to consider is the dynamic range of the amplifier. Your 1200 WPC amp may not sound so good if you’re speaker efficiency is 95 dBs or higher because the noise floor of the amp may obscure very quiet passages. Amplifiers are nonlinear at both ends of their dynamic window. If you know roughly how many watts gets you to a comfy listening level, +20dBs headroom will be adequate. Too much more and you’re crowding the noise floor of the amp, potentially.
Another good educational video. Paul understands how the best salesmen are good educators and if the new understanding lands a sale, then wonderful! Everybody wins. :-)
Well Paul... let me tell you something: those cheesy speakers you just touched are Buchardt S400. How do I know? Simple: I have the Stellar stack and those speakers. And let me tell you: the combo sounds amazing! However, I'm waiting for your Stellar floor standing. I hope they come out soon.
I've learned that when some people are drunk they turn things up louder than they normally would and they don't even hear the distortion so the speakers get fried.
It's usually better to rent a PA system for a night than to "borrow your fiend's speakers" for a party. Because only a PA system can deliver drunkard levels of music.
Been there I got drunk and listened to music so loud I tripped my breaker but the good news is my klipsch speakers and subs are ok klipsch didn’t distort and could have went louder if not for my avr topping out at 98db on the volume knob
Paul always make sense. Power is good!
"cheesey looking little speakers" 😭
I agree. the cheesy was uncalled for.
I think he knows full well what they are. He's just trying to make PS Audio's forthcoming speakers seem better.
Well, it is a $70 woofer and a $20 tweeter he was glancing at. To him, it is a bit cheesy, I guess. It is a great 6” woofer for $70 imho, but it is the engineering and the crossover that makes that speaker work well.
Well explained Paul, as always! Thank you, your efforts are received with much gratitude and appreciation.
Thanks for watching!
My understanding is more speakers are blown from amps too small that are clipping than over sized amps with sheer power output!
Derek that’s what I have first hand knowledge on. My little brother smoked my speakers by clipping
them during a house party while I was out. I could have strangled the little shit. 😎
As Tim "The Tool Man"Taylor used to say, "It didn't have enough power, so I REWIRED it"!
Heat and pwer are the same things, expressed in kilowatt hours on the elekricyt bill. 1 kilowatt = 1 hour qith 1 kilo. Thnak youes!
@@ilovecops6255 No. Heat is energy. It can be measured in joules, calories, or BTU. Power is a measure of energy per unit time. It can be measured in watts or horsepower.
@@timharig Notte so..
1,500-Watt Oil-Filled Radiant Electric Space Heater with Thermostat. 3 heater settings 600/900/1500-Watt, Safety auto shut-off and Safety tip-over switch. With adjustable thermostat, power indicator light, heavy duty casters wheels, convenient cord wrap and easy carrying handle. Whole room quiet radiant heat.
HEAT IS mesure in wattes!
@@ilovecops6255
www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heat-work-energy-d_292.html
Heaters are rated by their power output. Rating them by their heat would make no sense since you could achieve any amount of heat by running the heater for a set amount of time. What matters is how fast they can give off heat. That is a measure of power.
@@timharig i know its wah i sed fir time, HEAT = POWER = horsepower or kilowattes. BHP os Brake Hosepower, Indicated hosepwoer is from an indicator card - THEY SI 2 DIFFRENT THINGES!
Thank you for that confirmation . On my channel i talk about how the polk audio Lsim 703s are very hard to drive so i put 265 watts of class AB power to each speaker 3 amps total 2 mono amps 100 watt at 8 ohm 1 each for HF then a dual mono amp at 165 watts at 8 ohms each channel driving the LF so almost 4 amps in a way one amp having 2 amps built inside , and at 5 watts the 703s were sparkling i uploaded the video on my channel 703s rated at 200 watts at 8 ohms why because Bi-amped and big VU meters !
Yes, I could not agree more with you about the Polk LSiM 703. They do require a whole lot of power just to get them singing. But they do sound incredible when they have the power they need. I love your videos and channel. Thanks and keep them coming!
@@giangvu7902 Got 3 audio products already in , just been working alot No days off , but yeah I will most likely drop them all with in a week or so
Some amplifers sound better when pushed close to their maximum power than others. All depends on the 2nd to 3rd harmonic distortion ratio, and how much it changes/increases with power output. Its also important how well a big amp sounds at relatively low power output. Larger watt amp most of the time more complex, has more (slower) devices, cannot be biased as high due to heat in case of class AB.
Speakers also have a distortion spectrum that changes with SPL.
Some poeple prefer an amp/speakers that changes sonic character when pushed to add life and excitement.
No amp should be struggling though controlling the speakers or become harsh, losing imaging and soundstage when pushed where you want it to go (extreme volumes you dont listen at does not really matter much).
The power rating of an amp is not always an accurate indication of how well it will handle high output or difficult loads. Some lower power amps may drive low impedances quite well where current capability and stability matters.
Due to the ear’s changing frequency response relative to SPL you need to find an amp and speaker combination that sounds good at the intended listening volume. The size and acoustics of the room will also affect the sound level and quality.
Due to the logarithmic nature of sound pressure, it is not that far fetched to use a 150w amp when the average demand is 30w. Real (usefull) headroom requires at least 4 times the average power.
In most cases with average speakera and rooms, a good sounding 100w will suffice.
Where do you sell the stuff people trade in??? Is it listed online somewhere, or what? Just interested in checking out what people have sent in...may be something on their I could afford until I'm able to afford some PS Audio equipment.
Tmraudio.com
@@MrRad21 damn, this screen to sign up for something keeps popping up & I can't close it to view the page. That sucks.
@@jesusgavemeaids just click on the non-highlighted X in the upper right hand corner
I couldn't. Had to refresh the page, but I finally got it. & Damn, they're milking that stuff for every penny they can get apparently. I've seen some of the stuff they have for a lot less elsewhere.
@@jesusgavemeaids I bought a music streamer from them at a decent price, but they are quite proud of most of their stuff - as in "I can't afford it"
"We're not morons... right??" hahahahah
Where do you folks sell the stuff you take in as trades?
i learned this by listening to dif amps, and always got to the same concusion,
Occasionally, I drive in the mountains. There, I encounter peaks and valleys which challenge my car. I'd rather have 100 horsepower, than 50HP. Either engine will get the job done, but the one with more power has an easier time of it.
@Fat Rat Good question. I think it's 1000 watts per channel. The guy in the white van said it was worth every bit of the $29.00 I paid.
@Fat Rat Oh, heaven's no... that much quality would have cost at least $5 more. I've needed to settle for 90% THD. Best is I have full range from 1000-3500, so the vocals are nice.
Yes, if your are going to blow your head off or make your ears bleed that is too much power.
Great question and a great answer!!! ☮️🖖🏽
At a party I once killed my set of speakers with the clipping from an amp that didn't have enough power. Never damaged speakers with an amp that is much stronger than required.
brilliantly articulated
Too much power is just about right.
To much gain is a problem.
@ Montréal...never enough HEADROOM 🔈🔈🔊🔉
If you have more power you are less likely to encounter clipping, that where the amplifier runs out of power. Clipping is where the distortion comes from, and that is what damages speakers. I drove a pair of speakers rated at 125 watts per channel with 2 amplifiers , bi amping 200 watts channel bass and 150 watts channel treble and midrange they sounded great, I did not drive the amps to clipping but they were playing loud without distortion, because there was plenty of power. Always better with more than less . The one time I damaged speakers was with a 30 watt receiver.
The main concern I have using very high power amps with smaller speakers is the occasional accident of an RCA cable being pulled to the point where the ground connection is lost and having a high voltage from the mains noise feeding into a line level input. Suddenly you get 50 or 60Hz at clipping level and your power amp running at max power. Give it a few seconds and smoke can arise. Otherwise I agree and what is good about the extra power otherwise is that any peaks in the music will not get easily clipped as the voltage rails in the amp are high enough.
My concern is that you fool with interconnects with the amp at max power :)
@@jamesplotkin4674 my concern is that you fool with amps with the power on...😆
@@poserwanabe Actually, I don't do that :)
@@jamesplotkin4674 I know, I was just sticking with your theme...😁
@@poserwanabe I know. That's why I added a smile. I do still enjoy toast while in the tub, though. My doctor says it's unwise.
Call me biased because I have a pair but, Paul obviously hasn't listened to those Buchardt s400 speakers yet. They are rated for 200 watts RMS but I have seen them take over 300 from a Jeff Rowland Amp.
It's really difficult to have too much available power.
My system does wheelies when I turn it up. Does that mean it has too much power?
@@InsideOfMyOwnMind You just need lead counterweights on the front panel.
@Fat Rat Nitro meth
I think the basshead community would agree with "get as big of an amp as you can afford" but we're not keeping it at a low volume lol
my bhk 250's here at the month end.seem that your talking about amps.hope the black ones have left the warehouse. ive been promised it will be here..
good question and, as usual, an educational response
I just your vids full stop thankyou soooooo much for your wisdom 👏👏👏👌👌👌👌
Love my Nelson Pass-designed Adcom 555's.
there is no replacement for _displacement_
It's all about the headroom.
It’s only too much power if you go permanently deaf, burn up the voice coils, or mechanically damage the speakers.
Buchardt S400 speakers?
Yes, it looks like it.
Cheesy looking little speakers aparently 😂😂😂
@Fat Rat I remember those being smaller and using a AMT tweeter.
Agree with others Those appear to be S300 or S400 Buchardt, hardly “junk”
Is there such a thing as too much power?
"That is booooring"
~~One punch man.
Actually, damage is done from not enough power, not too much power.
@Fat Rat As Grandpappy would say, everything in moderation.
Not sure weather Steve sells high powered amps,,???
I have to agree with Nelson Pass that the first watt is the most important. Most hifi listeners, in a home environment, aren't going to use more than a few watts typically. I'd rather have a low powered amplifier that sounds great at reasonable volumes than a monster amp that needs to be cranked to earsplitting levels to hit its sweet spot.
Back in the early 1990s before I soundproofed my listening room, our neighbor threatened to report me to the police for playing my stereo too loud despite of only using my DIY Mullard 3-watt tube amp and my early protorype DIY loudspeakers. "Sadly" the set up can reach undistorted unamplified drum kit garage rock sound levels even with the volume control at the 6 o'clock position.
So many of the same topic videos.. There are already couple of headroom videos..
I always thought you were a Yid Paul. I am too. 😁
re: The Firesign Theatre (1974) an excerpt from "The Tale of the Giant Rat of Sumatra" featuring the famous defective Hemlock Stones and his patient doctor and biographer John Flotsom, O.D.
'. . . secreted at the Temple of Ampere-Watt was the sacred Ohm-Watt-Amp: the amplifier of unlimited power, the useless tool, the Tube from Heaven.'
Or words to that effect from the increasingly glitchy memory of this archaic slushware. Beware The Electrician! Or someone like him (1968).
@snipe69 "Shoes for industry, Charlie."
=//=OldDudesStillRock
@Fat Rat Not directly, but it is always good to hear from you. Sumatra and Sidney are much closer together than I (or the Los Angeles based Firesign Theatre) am to either.
But if the sensitivity is high like 98dB/1w/1m you don't need a high powered amp
That depends on the speakers. Big cerwin Vegas have very high sensitivity, but have large woofers that should have at least 500 watts to sound good.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 True, I had hornspeakers in my mind when I post my comment.
@@Larstig81 It's much more about power handling. Multiply by two and you should be in the sweet spot for amount of power you should have. So if you have power handling of 200 watts, a 400 watt amp will have more than enough headroom. This is very much a simplification though. But it can be a spot to work out from.
Still it's better with much power
Nice
I was just checking my overhead light last night, I flipped the switch and it took a very slight amount of time to light the light. The quantum of the physics might or might not explain the phenomenon. I think of it as a loose rope effect only now with FLUX waves of energy. More power forces the wave activity easier than a weak amp no matter if within a wire or in the wire surround. For me most of the advantage has not much to do with volume of sound from the speaker, instead, it's the ability to control the waves.
WTF were you smoking when you wrote that?
It can never bee to much power if you understand not to use everything you have.
Cheesy little speakers? Look like Buchardt S400’s. Choose your pistol, sir. 🤺
I believe those cheesy looking speakers are Buchart S400's. Paul stop hating on products that aren't your own. Be nice.
More is more....there is no such thing as too much power!!!! 😁
I was in an audio store recently and the had Klipsch La Scalas hooked up to a 300 watt McIntosh amplifier. Those speakers are supposed to be 106db at 1 watt. I don't understand how that would make sense. It seems that they would be served by a much smaller amplifier. I don't see how you would ever get to the edge of the sweet spot with such efficient speakers.
having much more efficient speakers than is necessary is a good idea. I use a pair that has a compression driver tweeter thats 108db sensitivity hooked up to 500 watts at 8 ohms. But then I use a 30db in line attenuator before the speaker. It cuts down any noise or hiss and gives beautiful results.
@@Canadian_Eh_I That makes sense.
Personally, I would have gone with the MC275 Mk. VI with KT88s rated at 2 x 75 watts from the 4, 8, and 16 ohm taps, but that's just me. I can't afford any of that wonderful kit, but its fun to dream.
@@stephensmith3111 Yeah I've owned a couple of mcintosh pieces. Love the sound, but I've found in my audiophile travels that the biggest difference really is made by the speakers. Going active with a deqx and using high effciency drivers with 30db attenuation has changed my perspective on audiophilia. I use an Edge electronics amplifier with 6 channels each using an ICEpower 500asp. When it was built it would have costed $8-10K for the amp. If you are diy-er you can buy the amps on partsexpress now for $350 each. Excellent clean power.
@@Canadian_Eh_I Absolutely. Everything in the audio chain matters to some extent, but the sound producing loudspeakers (or headphones) matter most. Once upon a time, I assembled a Hafler DH 200 power amp kit that did not burst into flames and sounded quite good to my much younger ears, but that was about two score years ago. As a government certified old dude now, my relatively modest "get off the merry-go-round system" (re: Sam Tellig) is far more than adequately good for the down-sized life of a retired small apartment dweller. But, as I said it's fun to dream. Enjoy your music.
Too bad, people are idiots. If the volume knob has the ability to go around another 75%, some screwball is going to turn it that far and damage the speakers. Although you are correct in your analysis to astute audiophiles and technicians, it doesn't apply to common Electrophonic brand stereo buyers. They always think that if the knob goes around some more, the speakers shouldn't blow. And you have to include the party problem. Some fool at your party will turn it up and blow out your speakers while you are answering the door or getting more drinks.you never once mentioned that with higher power, you cannot expect to be able to crank your amp all the way up.
Paul does't know about the famous little Buchardt 300 & 400s????!!!! (Well, they're expensive and their drivers are not cheesy at all! You should give a listen to them Paul, the employee that traded them in did well). Ok, all accepted except for one thing: When your loudspeaker has an upper acceptable RMS wattage rating and you're listening to new music loud, you should know whether this music becomes extremely and abruptly louder, later on, for an extended period of time, because this might cause your big amp to push higher than the rated maximum wattage, for a long time, and that might fry your drivers, If you're not close enough (you're in another room, for instance) to come and lower the volume immediately. For instance, if you're listening to Mahler or Wagner at their low passages and you're tempted to hear them at a high volume, then, when the grant and slam of the whole orchestra build up, you'll have to be there and lower the volume, or your precious voice-coils (and cones and domes and ribbons) will be in danger!
I live by, it's easier to pull the horse's reins back then it is to push them forward. But at the same time, people that need machines to tell them they have bad sound probably wont notice distortion and clipping happening until its to late anyway. But then again, from what I understand, under powering speakers is also bad. People have a tendency to push their amps to far into the crap zone under powered.
IDK though, I personally have speakers (all of them) that are over rated for their amps. Just because when I buy speakers I usually buy them to keep. If you have a 500 watt amp and 200 watt speakers sure there is a big sweet spot and less work on the amp but there is also a big area you will fry them to. It's all fun and game until $hit starts smoking. Got a low recording? Pump up the power and before you know it you are pumping 300 watts into your 200 watt speakers. I would rather my speakers laugh at my amp then my amp laugh at my speakers.
The real question to Paul should have been, how much power does he drive his IRS V's with and what are they are rated for? If he has a over powered amp hooked up to them will he let anyone in the room to play it knowing that the speakers max out at volume knob setting 15 when it goes to 50?
Too much power no.. Too much distorted SPL yes..
Never
My girlfriend thinks so.
Those are Buchardt S400s -_- 2500$ a pair
In short, too much is not enough.
You said it
Lol why does he not know that those are Buchardt S400? They are so hyped
juliangst I guess he doesn’t watch any reviews on RUclips.
Not High end enough for him, lol! But I was wondering the same
@@JEMHull-gf9el true. But I also wondered why that Directstream dac is connected to the Sprout?
@@juliangst Because it's better than the on board DAC.
@@amb3cog despite that it's measures terribly, it's not a dac you would use on a $600 amp xD
I don't see how having hundreds of watts of power in an amp is useful at all, unless you want to deffen yourself,,
using a faily efficient pair of speakers, a 50watt amp would be addiqate for normal listening.
Don't get all caught up in the,, my amps bigger than yours bushit.
Paul, you missed his entire point. It's not so you can run a rock concert from your home, it's so that you're not stressing the amp and it's power supply. The result is pure sound without any distortion. No bullshite.
@@jamesplotkin4674 hi James,, I get what he's saying, but I ran a 50 watt amp on 90 dB speakers, sitting around 4 meter away and honestly I couldn't listen past half way on the vol. Not because the sound was stressed or distortion played a part it was simply too loud, just saying, it's like having a Bugatti and strolin around at 30,, what's the point.
Most folks do that though, just so they can tell you they have a Bugatti, makes me cringe tbh.
You would be surprised how much high power helps even at normal listening levels.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 High power, at normal listening levels, I don't understand what you mean.
@@paulwibb.8944 Having a high power amplifier will be noticeable already at just a few watts of music output.
My dream speakers are an unknown to Paul and relegated to the reception area.
More is better . That’s why I have 10 girls
“Cheesey little speakers” c’mon Paul you should at least know what you’re looking at. An early version of your entry speakers use the same passive radiator and you’ve said many times how you don’t like passive radiators. What’s up with you?
Fat Rat yes
I found that any amp that is rated at 150w - 200w at 8ohms and will handle decently down to 2ohms is more than enough unless you have a room of 3,000 sq feet and want to hit 120dB min 😂🤣
Fat Rat ... I produce for concerts. At one rave event we were throwing the sound up to the 60m mark. Was maybe just a mere 80dB by then. In front we are prob well into the 120dB range
Can’t do that Down Under due to the sound restrictions. I think it’s only allowed to be in the high 90’s. 😬
Fat Rat ... yup outdoors and as you say, the body will absorb the sound. You been to raves? 😬
Fat Rat ... no way! See this video. She’s still partying away. 😂🤣
ruclips.net/video/9WTXPWPcOkQ/видео.html
Fat Rat ... 🙈
The Buchardt S400’s are a cheesy speaker? Not a fan of salesman who rubbish products they say they are unfamiliar with.
Fat Rat why do you say that? I still find Paul entertaining and knowledgeable.
Fat Rat because I don’t like one trait, you suggest I write someone off completely? With that mentality I’d guess you’ve been single awhile?
Fat Rat wow, you are dense. Good luck with whatever mental illness you’re battling.
Fat Rat unsubscribe.
10W class A vs 1000W class D
Here's a CLUE: Why the 'committee' gave Thumbs Down to the PS Speaker Cab design . . . You can't put extraneous crap on top of the speaker! I love the design, but the top sloping down isn't conducive to placement of manuals, small equipment, coffee cups, and flowers.
Those items do not belong on top of a speaker! >:U
With today's super compressed CDs you don't need much power as there are no peaks in the music. But if you listen to music with a lot of dynamic range like my direct to disc LPs you do need power as there are lots of peaks.
Blasphemy.... (commented before watching 😂 )it’s all about the synergies of a system and room
Trigger warning Buchardt owners lol
Boutique brand with ~2000$ bookshelves... So like 3 people ? :D
Jewish.. i thought irish and that explained the kinship I feeel
Hell naw! Gimme the watts, cant get enough. My Cerwin Vega 15s can take it!
BUT can your house trailer stand the Cerwin Vegas? ;-)