I’ve used MFC fins and they have been using small in front and bigger in back for Wavesailing for at least a decade so… this is a refinement of years of experimentation. They work great!
I literally saved this to “watch later” in my RUclips account like I have any relevance to JJF and Kai while I sit here living in Colorado and get to surf once a year if I’m lucky. 🤷🏼♂️ 😂😂😂
it will happen @@FuzzyL0g1c I'm thinking I'll compare three sets of fins in the Seaside and share my opinion. Seaside quads V regular Quads V another setup
Thank you for testing and sharing your experience. It's so valuable. I don't know when I'll be able to try out these fins, but your videos will definitely help with the selection. Best of luck and inspiration for more videos!
right on, great review. As an experiment I tried flipping my normal quads by putting the smaller rear fins in front and bigger front fins in back. This was on a 4 to 5 foot day on an El Tomo Quad Fish. I concluded, at least for shortboarding big or small waves, the concept doesn't work. Like you mentioned, lack of drive. and with the wider El Tomo Tail, once I got speed, it got too tight and stiff. Anyways, loved the video. Cheers.
Thank you @thomyesurfs I love your videos - huge fan. I'm guessing you have FCS to be able to do that. It would be interesting if you can try this swap on a longer board.
@@blinksurf yes, FCS. I definitely will try again, maybe with the Seaside and Beyond. I don't have too many boards over 6',LOL. But I definitely need a step up, I have missed way too many good waves on bigger days. :( Cheers brotha.
Yeah cool. The Seaside and Beyond surfed really well for me with the standard Firewire Quads until I snapped the board on about the third surf. Loved the board but was not built to my strength standards. The closest board I have to that is the Nautilus and it went well with Kai fins@@ThomyeSurfs
MFC and KT/Quatro boards who work with Kai have been using this setup in Windsurfing since 2009, they were developed for then windsurfing world champion Kauli Seadi and first used for the Cape Verde windsurfing world tour stop. ruclips.net/video/e5JIzKInQ8M/видео.html (also one of Kai's first ever world tour events) and have been standard in all windsurfing quad setups for all brands since then. Not sure who had the idea to put them on a surf board but Kai would have been very aware of this set up from his windsurfing. In windsurfing we use them in any size of waves.
Thank you! We're really thankful to be able to exchange and combine expertise from windsurfing, surfing, hydrofoil, and kite-surfing. Each water sport teaches us new techniques, designs, speed variations, and acceleration. Collaborating with Kai Lenny, Marcilio Browne, Ian Walsh and others, allows us to learn diverse styles and techniques, observing how they fly and carve through the water at various speeds. Kai has been riding this concept for XXL waves since 2016.
your content is awesome. heaps of analysis. and great format. would love to see all your boards one day - especially any Christenson's! - I have an Osprey and have had a few other models in the past. boards that work
Thank you so much. That really made my day. A board tour is a great idea! I have a Christenson Flat Tracker 2 and a Nautilus in the quiver now. I also had a Monarch twin (loved it so much but it was too small for me) and a smaller Nautilus, a Dead Sled and a Flat Tracker v1 before. Osprey looks amazing and I've been close to getting one a few times. Christenson makes amazing boards.
Very informative James. I honestly cannot feel the fins doing anything when I ride my 910 gun at bombie. I am actually happy with thruster in bigger waves. Twin foe mid and fish. Thrusters for anything else.
Gun and big wave fins are generally smaller because the heavier weight and larger surface area of the long rail line creates tons of hold which reduces the necessity for large fins. Given Kai's are larger they'll be more versatile than John's. Hence why you might enjoy them more on head high waves on large step-ups and shortboards. Both sets are essentially modified twinzers. If you haven't tried a twinzer, you should, they are fantastic. I have no idea why they aren't more popular but I digress. I can see how this equalized and spread-out twinzer is an awesome idea and might work really well on a gun in giant surf. Getting back to the comparison, the fins from John are probably better than Kai's paddling into XXL+ waves because John's fins are built specifically for that purpose. Kai's fins are probably unnecessarily large in those conditions on a gun. That being said, Kai tow's into massive waves on tiny little boards so a set that can handle both paddle and tow is sensible for him. Ultimately 90% of those buying either set of these fins will rarely if ever ride 10 ft+ guns in XXL+ waves so I think you are correct to recommend Kai's fins to the average rider who want's to try out this twinzer-esh set. I think for those paddling into giant waves who want less unnecessary drag and the ability to pivot easier should try the set from John. I'm in the market for the latter but I'm interested in this twinzer-esh concept for my other quad boards. Would love to know what people think who've tried them in big conditions.
I agree with everything you said. I loved the Twinzer the first time I rode one and that's why I like this format of larger rears. I just got a set of SOAR Keogh fins to try. They look pretty good as well. Somewhere in between.
How did the Kai's end up going in the seaside? Mainly interested in the Kai's for the new Slater designs Boss Up, which I will likely get in 6'6 or 6'8 when it comes out in Volcanic, to make the quad a little more twin-like. I also have a Seaside too though so I'm curious! Great review.
The Kai's work in the Seaside in good waves where control is required but extra drive is not a priority. The Seaside is so wide it likes drive from the fins in smaller waves. The NEW Machado Quads are great in small waves. Regular quads work well in good waves. See this video for more details ruclips.net/video/xWI7FaBKYX8/видео.html
They should both be ashamed of themselves for charging $225-$250 for quad fins. Just lost a lot of respect for both of them because of that. They didn’t reinvent anything, they flipped fins around, did a little R&D, then felt like they earned ripping off the surf community? Not cool. The fin market is getting outrageous, ever since Futures strong armed the surf world and is turning into a monopoly.
Testing either of these fins in anything under a 10ft face wave to me seems like a disservice to theri design. They were designed for big waves and should be ridden in big waves. Whether they work in any other waves is irrelevant.
@@blinksurf Went well but I dont use that much,Mainly I have them up front with toe trail box with a thruster fin and the tiny hatchet fin in heel box...that set up provides nice drive toe side and great looseness coming off the top.
try putting bigger fronts and really small rears and ideally rears that tuck in closer behind the fronts. Youll have a faster quad with the looseness of a twin. Also bigger fins for smaller surf. Smaller fins for bigger surf. Neither of those kai/jjf fins will give you any benefit in small waves especially on those boards
Interesting perspective. Twinzers are the opposite of that. Really small canards tucked up to larger rears. They are twin like. When I tried the large Machado V1 quads they felt too stiff. Kai also says his setup is faster in 2 Foot waves than the old way. I have found the Kais work in smaller boards and smaller waves than the JJF. Just my own experience. I'll be sticking with the NVS quad set in the smaller boards.
@@blinksurf I love twins and quads but I finde tge best combo for me has been more standard quad fronts with much smaller rears. Like you said in your video I think the machados are too big for turning too stiff. Try much smaller trailers to loosen the board up. Also that will allow you to side pump the board more easily so you can generate your own speed, very similar to skateboarding. Ive been dialing my quads and twins and experimenting with diff fins for a few years. This just my personal experience.
And why are they all sold out, because they outperform others? Well let's see, say you there at BlinkSurf had come out with them...would they now all be sold out? Nope, and why? Because you are not world famous surfers. That was a great review though.
This set up is very common on windsurf wave boards (since years) and this is where Kai got the idea.
Thank you
I’ve used MFC fins and they have been using small in front and bigger in back for Wavesailing for at least a decade so… this is a refinement of years of experimentation. They work great!
I love them. Thanks for this feedback. R&D has paid off
I literally saved this to “watch later” in my RUclips account like I have any relevance to JJF and Kai while I sit here living in Colorado and get to surf once a year if I’m lucky. 🤷🏼♂️ 😂😂😂
Thats so cool thank you. Maybe they will do a Gerry Lopez and become inlanders.
I like the Machado quads. They work perfect. Never had a problem. Probably the best board and fin pair ever designed. I wouldn’t change it.
Awesome feedback Mike. Do you have the original ones or the newer ones? (The ones I didn't love were the very first ones).
I've ordered some new Machado seaside quads to test
@@blinksurfplease do a video on these if you can 🙏🏼
it will happen @@FuzzyL0g1c I'm thinking I'll compare three sets of fins in the Seaside and share my opinion. Seaside quads V regular Quads V another setup
@@blinksurf I have those. Love them.
Thank you for the time spent doing this review, Aloha🙏🏽
Aloha! My pleasure and your fins are amazing. 🙌
Thank you for testing and sharing your experience. It's so valuable.
I don't know when I'll be able to try out these fins, but your videos will definitely help with the selection. Best of luck and inspiration for more videos!
Thank you. Cool!
right on, great review. As an experiment I tried flipping my normal quads by putting the smaller rear fins in front and bigger front fins in back. This was on a 4 to 5 foot day on an El Tomo Quad Fish. I concluded, at least for shortboarding big or small waves, the concept doesn't work. Like you mentioned, lack of drive. and with the wider El Tomo Tail, once I got speed, it got too tight and stiff.
Anyways, loved the video. Cheers.
Thank you @thomyesurfs I love your videos - huge fan. I'm guessing you have FCS to be able to do that. It would be interesting if you can try this swap on a longer board.
@@blinksurf yes, FCS. I definitely will try again, maybe with the Seaside and Beyond. I don't have too many boards over 6',LOL. But I definitely need a step up, I have missed way too many good waves on bigger days. :( Cheers brotha.
Yeah cool. The Seaside and Beyond surfed really well for me with the standard Firewire Quads until I snapped the board on about the third surf. Loved the board but was not built to my strength standards. The closest board I have to that is the Nautilus and it went well with Kai fins@@ThomyeSurfs
MFC and KT/Quatro boards who work with Kai have been using this setup in Windsurfing since 2009, they were developed for then windsurfing world champion Kauli Seadi and first used for the Cape Verde windsurfing world tour stop. ruclips.net/video/e5JIzKInQ8M/видео.html (also one of Kai's first ever world tour events) and have been standard in all windsurfing quad setups for all brands since then. Not sure who had the idea to put them on a surf board but Kai would have been very aware of this set up from his windsurfing. In windsurfing we use them in any size of waves.
Thank you this is valuable. I can see this setup sweeping the surfboard world now because it works really well in my experience.
Thank you! We're really thankful to be able to exchange and combine expertise from windsurfing, surfing, hydrofoil, and kite-surfing. Each water sport teaches us new techniques, designs, speed variations, and acceleration. Collaborating with Kai Lenny, Marcilio Browne, Ian Walsh and others, allows us to learn diverse styles and techniques, observing how they fly and carve through the water at various speeds. Kai has been riding this concept for XXL waves since 2016.
Mahalo @@mfchawaii7629 the OG!
your content is awesome. heaps of analysis. and great format. would love to see all your boards one day - especially any Christenson's! - I have an Osprey and have had a few other models in the past. boards that work
Thank you so much. That really made my day. A board tour is a great idea! I have a Christenson Flat Tracker 2 and a Nautilus in the quiver now. I also had a Monarch twin (loved it so much but it was too small for me) and a smaller Nautilus, a Dead Sled and a Flat Tracker v1 before. Osprey looks amazing and I've been close to getting one a few times. Christenson makes amazing boards.
try billy kemper quad
Those ones look very nice
Very informative James. I honestly cannot feel the fins doing anything when I ride my 910 gun at bombie. I am actually happy with thruster in bigger waves. Twin foe mid and fish. Thrusters for anything else.
They might make it faster. Less drag.
Gun and big wave fins are generally smaller because the heavier weight and larger surface area of the long rail line creates tons of hold which reduces the necessity for large fins. Given Kai's are larger they'll be more versatile than John's. Hence why you might enjoy them more on head high waves on large step-ups and shortboards. Both sets are essentially modified twinzers. If you haven't tried a twinzer, you should, they are fantastic. I have no idea why they aren't more popular but I digress. I can see how this equalized and spread-out twinzer is an awesome idea and might work really well on a gun in giant surf. Getting back to the comparison, the fins from John are probably better than Kai's paddling into XXL+ waves because John's fins are built specifically for that purpose. Kai's fins are probably unnecessarily large in those conditions on a gun. That being said, Kai tow's into massive waves on tiny little boards so a set that can handle both paddle and tow is sensible for him. Ultimately 90% of those buying either set of these fins will rarely if ever ride 10 ft+ guns in XXL+ waves so I think you are correct to recommend Kai's fins to the average rider who want's to try out this twinzer-esh set. I think for those paddling into giant waves who want less unnecessary drag and the ability to pivot easier should try the set from John. I'm in the market for the latter but I'm interested in this twinzer-esh concept for my other quad boards. Would love to know what people think who've tried them in big conditions.
I agree with everything you said. I loved the Twinzer the first time I rode one and that's why I like this format of larger rears. I just got a set of SOAR Keogh fins to try. They look pretty good as well. Somewhere in between.
How did the Kai's end up going in the seaside? Mainly interested in the Kai's for the new Slater designs Boss Up, which I will likely get in 6'6 or 6'8 when it comes out in Volcanic, to make the quad a little more twin-like. I also have a Seaside too though so I'm curious! Great review.
The Kai's work in the Seaside in good waves where control is required but extra drive is not a priority. The Seaside is so wide it likes drive from the fins in smaller waves. The NEW Machado Quads are great in small waves. Regular quads work well in good waves. See this video for more details ruclips.net/video/xWI7FaBKYX8/видео.html
Robin mare from Hanalei fins has been doing this for years has a huge range of quads
I need to try these they look absolutely incredible. Thank you
@@blinksurf their wsf split keels fins are crazy good in big surf similar concept
@@Jameswoodgo it looks like Hanalei have many options. Fun.
@@blinksurf you should review some
@@Jameswoodgo I would like to for sure. I need to figure the best type to test for my boards and size
Im waiting for the Kanye west quads keen as to drop $1000 on them
hahaha! You might have the only set.
They should both be ashamed of themselves for charging $225-$250 for quad fins. Just lost a lot of respect for both of them because of that. They didn’t reinvent anything, they flipped fins around, did a little R&D, then felt like they earned ripping off the surf community? Not cool. The fin market is getting outrageous, ever since Futures strong armed the surf world and is turning into a monopoly.
yeah I must admit it stopped me in my tracks. Such a large amount. I would love to see a set of NVS G10 quads similar to the KAI may be even 5% larger
I remember when you could get a brand new Channel islands with fins for $ 325.00!!!!!! Lol I know, I'm old!
One positive is my older boards are selling for what I paid for them. Only thing is that $ is not worth the same. Inflation is crazy@@TroyCote
@@TroyCote those were the days!
I was abruptly like 🤮$🤮..😂
Just search on RUclips for the Kai fins and you’ll see how long ago he started the process compared to JJ. Red for rip off alert!!
Love it!!!
Testing either of these fins in anything under a 10ft face wave to me seems like a disservice to theri design. They were designed for big waves and should be ridden in big waves. Whether they work in any other waves is irrelevant.
True for the JJF. Kai says his fins work great from 2 foot so I don't agree with you.
Very informative 🙏🙏
Thanks Zac
Well done !
Thank you
I put my MRs in the back 16 years ago, are these blokes THAT far behind???
classic! How did they go??
@@blinksurf Went well but I dont use that much,Mainly I have them up front with toe trail box with a thruster fin and the tiny hatchet fin in heel box...that set up provides nice drive toe side and great looseness coming off the top.
@@palaneproductions7357 thank you so much. Im keen to try those combos
Paying for the name
for sure.
try putting bigger fronts and really small rears and ideally rears that tuck in closer behind the fronts. Youll have a faster quad with the looseness of a twin. Also bigger fins for smaller surf. Smaller fins for bigger surf. Neither of those kai/jjf fins will give you any benefit in small waves especially on those boards
Interesting perspective. Twinzers are the opposite of that. Really small canards tucked up to larger rears. They are twin like. When I tried the large Machado V1 quads they felt too stiff. Kai also says his setup is faster in 2 Foot waves than the old way. I have found the Kais work in smaller boards and smaller waves than the JJF. Just my own experience. I'll be sticking with the NVS quad set in the smaller boards.
@@blinksurf The bigger fronts will give you more drive and pivot.
I was hoping for that because I surf Twin fins most of the time. Maybe the Machado version 2 quads are better. Might try them@@altermode
@@blinksurf I love twins and quads but I finde tge best combo for me has been more standard quad fronts with much smaller rears. Like you said in your video I think the machados are too big for turning too stiff. Try much smaller trailers to loosen the board up. Also that will allow you to side pump the board more easily so you can generate your own speed, very similar to skateboarding. Ive been dialing my quads and twins and experimenting with diff fins for a few years. This just my personal experience.
Thank you @@altermode that is very valuable feedback. The smaller front quads seem more to my liking as well.
👍🍺
Kai cuter
😁
And why are they all sold out, because they outperform others? Well let's see, say you there at BlinkSurf had come out with them...would they now all be sold out? Nope, and why? Because you are not world famous surfers. That was a great review though.
I agree with you. Fame is the winning formula. Could also relate to production quantity because big wave surfing is more niche.