I believe that the branches that make the animated and paint universes are just branches from the Big Bang. Something was different about how the universe came to be and made physics different
@@Cooper_118Yeah, it could be that there's a single big bang and that it created lots of different sets of stones. That's certainly a possible way it could work.
I think Captain Carter being able to hear the Watcher is because she had already met him. He never interacts with people and rarely revisits universes, so he wouldn't have known that the people he reveals himself to will stay aware of him.
What about Strange Supreme and Ultron, though? Are they allowed to find him before he reveals himself to them because of their higher mystic or cosmic awareness? I don't think your theory is invalid, but there is that slight hiccup from those two examples in Season 1.
Actually Thor does say in Infinity War that Odin told him he had a half-sister. Oddly enough that is never said in Ragnarok. Odin just says 'your sister'.. at no point is half-sister said by Odin. But of course he knows Frigga is his mother and Hela is part of the covered up history so he put 2 and 2 together but technically Odin did not tell him that in the short time they had before he died.
Oh wow...great points...yeah, that is really strange that he never said she was his half-sister in Ragnarok but did in Infinity War. I forgot about that line. Excellent feedback. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
My headcanon is that episode 1 branched way earlier than 2014. Before Drax was arrested, before Howard the Duck was put in the Collector's collection and before Korg and Miek went to Sakaar. And if we go by the lore of of episode 4, that is before 2012. We know Ronan was working for Thanos for a very long time, so it seems that in this universe he betrayed him way earlier. Maybe like 2011.
Glad to see Loki’s tree make an appearance again. This got me wondering what other myths have world trees and is there a superwatcher overseeing the orchard of world trees.
Great point...I love the idea of a super watcher of some sort. I do think the watchers for each multiverse probably chat and hang out in some "watcher's lounge" (patterned after the mysterious teacher's lounge I always assumed was a party room back in school). Also, Happy New Year!
Great recap and debrief on the branch points! Love seeing all of them laid out like this! As for Kahhori's name, its pronounced as "Kah-hor-ti", which I heard in the episode but had to double check online to make sure I was hearing the pronunciation properly. I really hope she shows up in live action at some point, maybe Secret Wars!
Oh how funny...I thought it was "Kah-hor-di", but I couldn't figure out why there was a "d" sound in there, so I ignored it. But the "ti" sound makes alot of sense. Thanks for sharing that. Really loved her character!
Odin should not have been defeated so readily. He can literally go up against a celestial. It would have been so much better for him engage Hera only to reveal that it was simple to test her. The Mandarin??? I am speechless.
Yeah, that was surprising. Perhaps Odin was holding back since it was his daughter, but I agree, it was still a shock to see him defeated. Granted, they did say that the 10 rings can destroy a god, so perhaps they are even more powerful than we guessed?
The Hulk blood thing seems to me to be foreshadowing for Smart Hulk, we know Tony helped Bruce with the transformation so I think this confirms he’d been looking into it for almost a decade beforehand
I agree...I think that makes alot of sense that Tony was working on helping Bruce all that time. And it gets me even more excited for CA4: Brave New World when we get Red Hulk. Should be epic!
My guess for why some of the characters that are in episode 1 when they shouldn’t be at that time is that after Ronan killed Thanos he went to other planets first, for some reason, and citizens fled to Xandar because they knew it would be safe. But yeah I was really confused when I watched this episode
Also it was cool seeing how when Natasha actually physically kills Dreykov, Melina takes his place. So I wonder what happened to Taskmaster in this branched timeline
Really loved this season, the episodes felt like completely new stories instead of just altered versions of movies which was an issue of mine in s1 stoked for season 3!
I 100% agree...the episodes were so well crafted...I never knew where they would go next, which is exactly what you expect from a What If story. Loved S2 and can't wait for S3!
201- Thanos decimates Xandar- did he kill Yon-Rogg or free him during that attack? 202- Winter Soldier isn’t really known by SHIELD, he’s a ghost. Remember in Civil War’s footage- Howard recognizes him instantly. The Soldier was an operative SHIELD knew existed but no one who saw him survived (except for Nat). 203- maybe SHIELD didn’t collapse? 205- Black Widow’s “There’s someone inside” is kept in the episode so what were they planning? 208- nope no way that’s an incursion. Also, Red Skull, Yellowjacket, Hela, Loki, FANDRIL? I wonder how many got “resuscitated” because by the time we watch the episode the rifts have been going for a while. Thanos deaths- 201, 204, 207,208 (once everyone heads back or maybe he’s been killed already), 209 That’s six deaths. And no Stark deaths this season Perfectly balanced. PLEASE NOOOOO to the reset tease. If Secret Wars ends with no Infinity Saga heroes and a new world, I’m going to bawl my eyes out.
Excellent feedback. I totally agree with your comments on 201, 203, 205 and 208. On 205, I think they originally planned to have it be a happy ending for Peggy and Steve and then when it was renewed for a second season they decided to go the direction of Steve being a sleeper agent. Love the Thanos death count! And I do think we're getting a soft reboot, but I think we may still keep several Infinity Saga heroes. It will be a merge of heroes from across the multiverse (i.e. X-men, Fantastic Four, etc) along with our favorites from 616. Again, awesome feedback...thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Random thought I had for S2 E3, maybe in this timeline Fury didn’t do such a great job in keeping Hawkeye’s family off Shield’s files so when they got leaked to the public in Winter Soldier it was revealed.
29:30 Or Hela's reign lasted longer than it did in the sacred timeline, potentially meaning that Thor's birth is put off. Odin could have not seen the error of his ways till later?
This is just a theoretical model but it’s been how i’ve been trying to understand things: Stacked upon each other are infinite universes/timelines all progressing in their own linear fashion (depicted as Multiple sacred timelines or trees) Each Prime strand or Sacred timeline have you is that Multiverse’s Prime Timeline (Tree Trunk) and each branch deviating off the trunk are the various infinite what-if scenarios, they are there own universes but each is anchored back to the main 616 (hence why variants all look the same/ except for Loki variants) Loki is Ultimately holding together the 616 Universe and it’s infinite what if Branches but what if Loki’s tree is merely one of a large forest; an infinite forest with each tree trunk containing their respective multiverse’s prime universe with the branches of each tree being all the various Branched Universe. Incursions can happen on Difficult levels, in the case of what if episode 8, the Avengers being stranded in the 1600s is causing their reality to collapse: On this Level the incursions are happening on branching timelines and hence localized to that reality. Based off of the model, the incursion that Stephen could’ve caused between 616 and 838 is a much larger Incursion in comparison as it’s not just two or more branching universes colliding and Undoing each other opposed to 2 Separate Multiversal trees slowly pulling each other together until one or both trees Timber and collapse into one another. Incursions can happen on the branches at a smaller scale just as two separate alternate Universes can; both cause an ungodly amount of deaths but in the case of non branching universes colliding it’s entire separate Multiverses colliding and collapsing into each other. Any Variant of a character that doesn’t look like them ex: Spider-man is because that variant comes from a different tree entirely, It’s how the spider verse because there’s an infinite amount of spider peeps on different branches and trees; all connected through the Web Of Life And Destiny:Spider-verse Main Mcu Timeline (Tree Trunk) Alternate What If Timelines (Branches) the tree is that specific Multiverse (Its anchored universes) While there are an infinite amount of trees in the forest (Omniverse) Despite each tree and it’s branches being slightly or drastically different too eachother, all eventually connect to one another through it’s roots and Branches alike. An incursion at the scale of Dr Strange m.o.m would be two trees timbering into each other, which could eventually have a cascade effect that leads to trees falling like dominos and the ultimate Death of The Omniverse: Secret Wars
Great feedback on the vid. I think our models are pretty much the same, but I can't quite tell if you are advocating for a single big bang creating everything or for each tree trunk to be a separate big bang. The primary reason that I've landed on multiple big bangs is that Marvel has established that the "Infinity Stones each control an essential aspect of existence" [Wong, Infinity War]. Thus, we need a different reality stone in a universe that has a reality of paint vs. a reality of cubes vs. a reality of live action. So I think each tree trunk formed from it's own big bang and thus it's own unique set of stones. But that's just my take on it. As for the rift in episode 8, I don't view that as an incursion, per se. It is time healing itself. Two timelines (2018 and 1602) were compressed into the same universe and so ig it's a time incursion, but it's not a standard incursion between two universes. Again, just my take on it. I really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback on it. Thanks so much!
@@nailinthefashion Thanks! Been working on the model for quite awhile and I think it works really well. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts!
@@AbitofEverything4UOnly the branched universes from one multiversal tree (what if) and the main 616 universe have the same big bang through being all anchored to each other; different universes like paint and 838 have separate big bangs akin to being on different tree’s (Each tree functions differently to one another, same reason why infinity stones can work across different branched universes but will not work once you cross the threshold into a different multiverse (tree/physics fundamentally function differently as each tree has separate big bangs/in compatible physics to function on alternate-non anchored realities. As different as each tree is, they all eventually connect to each other through their roots or branches, Intertwining on a omniversersal level, they can peacefully coexist for a time or rather somewhere interferes, eroding the borders between each multiverse to cause them to Timber/Incursion and destroy one tree or both entirely.
@@AbitofEverything4U you're spot on with other theories as well. All quantum mechanics is just pattern tracking and our best guess, and then this is fictional on top of that so there are no established rules, just the ones we make. But from what we know, the compression effect the stones go thru makes them compatible with the next universe they fall into because they would be perceived by the inhabitants in a way that makes sense to them while also still being gems lol. It's a bit like Galactus except with cosmic energies
40:40 Funny to hear them say that The Watcher is a fifth-dimensional being when that's also supposed to be the dimension that Superman's enemy Mr. Mxyzptlk is from as well.
5th Dimension just implies they exist within our universe, but in a higher plane Like how we perceive 4 dimensions, But in theory would not notice any other dimensions even if they existed and interacted with ours
I agree...I think season 2 was definitely an improvement over season 1 (not that S1 was bad). It seemed like they really hit their stride with this season for sure!
You really know how to explain the MCU Lore, I mean you that really helped me understand the MCU and how it works, mostly because of how the MCU multiverse works and how it connects to the SSU and Across the Spider-Verse. Thank you for everything and I hope you reach 100K subs
I'm 100% sure you put more thought into this than Marvel does 😂 I love it, you actually makes it make some sense, thank you for everything this year, heres for the new one.
Finally got round to watch what if! Been so busy I haven’t had the chance, obviously came straight to listen to your video after 🤣 thank you as always ❤
What if was amazing this season, and with them already giving us a tease for Season 3, I'm hoping that means we'll be getting it sooner rather than waiting another two years. 2024 is looking like a great year for Marvel animation, with Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur Season 2, X-Men '97, and potentially the new Spider-Man and Wakanda series that are rumored to be happening soon, plus Marvel Zombies. And since the live action movies are slowing down a bit, it's nice to have these animated series picking up the slack for Marvel content!
Well said...yeah, I'm really happy for Marvel animation. Looking like it will be a banger of a year for them. Lots to look forward to in 2024. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
The conflicting appearances of Korg in episode 1 and episode 4 to me suggest that while Korg did live on Sakaar at the earliest in 2012, he wasn’t a slave on the planet until he tried to incite a rebellion on Sakaar but didn’t have enough pamphlets which was mentioned in Thor Ragnarok. I think given that the NASCAR race on Sakaar in episode 4 was also participated in by Valkyrie, it wasn’t a totally slave race like the gladiatorial fights in Ragnarok. Although I’m not even sure those were completely slave fights since we see Thor and Korg separated from some of the other fighters before the fight. So presumably Korg and Miek only became slaves after the 2014 invasion of Xandar, going to the planet on vacation and getting stuck there in ep 1 when the planet closes off. This also confirms that if some of the guardians were on the planet, perhaps some of the ones we don’t see were killed before the invasion even happened.
Excellent feedback on the vid. Yeah, the timeline for Korg is confusing, but I think your ideas could indeed work. Nice call! Thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Awesome video. My favorite episodes were episode 2 and episode 6. I loved seeing a young Peter Quill and young Hope van Dyne interacting. Plus the team they assembled looked cool. And Kahorri is such a cool character
Agreed...those two episodes were amazing. Loved seeing Peter and Hope together like that. And I can't wait to see Kahhori appearing in live action (please make it happen Marvel)! Wishing you a Happy New Year!
The real reasons for the branches: E1 What if Ronan betrayed thanos then he killed The Other E2 What if Meredith Quil was diagnosed with cancer a year earlier E3 What if a magazine was left in Justin Hammer’s cell E4 What if Tony didn’t make it back through the portal E6 What if Surtur attacked right after the Battle of Jotunheim E7 What if Odin met Frigga 600 years later E8 What if Captain America got back up after Thanos killed Vision
@@AbitofEverything4UThanks! As you said the branch point for episode 7 is a bit confusing, I was considering What if Odin met Frigga 600 years later, but I don’t think that works as well
I think that Shield did not knew that Bucky is the WS, in the what if episode they don't say "he truly looks like him", they say "He looks just like him". That for me at least explains that they only realised it here and there, and things with him just snowballed from there.
Great recap, chief! I was eagerly waiting for your analysis, specially for the 1602 episode. It couldn't be an incursion! Also, people were diminishing Sacred Timeline Wanda for not being able to open multiversal portals, but they didn't take this being a Branch into account! Also, something else I noticed to cement that 203 is in December 2014 is that Happy has Sam Wilson's contact in his phone, so definitely after Winter Soldier. And it makes so much sense that the branch origin was related to the Fall of SHIELD. I originally thought that everything worked fine for 202, with Janet going subatomic in July 1987 and the episode taking place in June 1988, and simply placing Meredith's death/Peter's abduction in very early January 1988, but still it makes no sense now that you've mentioned that Meredith was still in early pregnancy in 1980, Peter was 8 when abducted and Hank didn't resign until 1989... Well, either way, I think it was a great season! Kinda bummed it seems there won't be a Assembled: Making of What If...? Season 2
Excellent points about 208...glad you also agree it wasn't an incursion. And I totally agree about the the fact that it's a branch being the explanation for why Wanda (and Dr. Strange, for that matter) could move between universes. Well said! I hadn't heard about there not being an assembled for S2. Bummer. But looking forward to S3...this season was fantastic!
Tbh, I don't like the fact that Drax, Groot, Nebula and Korg were on the same planet let alone the same room in season 2 episode 1. Makes the Universe feel small
Yeah, it was fun to see them all together and there were some really funny lines as a result of it, but the logic behind them all being there is questionable to say the least. ig we just have to run with it as the multiverse is full of infinite possibilities. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Remember time works different on Sakarr. In Ragnorok Loki and Thor leave earth at same time but when Thor gets there Loki has already been there for weeks. So it possible Korg stayed in space until 2014 and went through a portal that put him into sakarr before Tony in 2012
I hadn't thought about 1602 like that now that I've heard it I know realized how Peggy was the only one there after Steve was restored back after she fixed the universe. It was also really cool to see and learn stuff like Hela's original banishment and T'Chaka's father giving vibranium to make Cap's Shield.
Hey I've been waiting for you to do a video on what if, i really enjoyed this season and can't wait for the third one. I hope we see Kahhori in live action and i want to see Hela goddess of light to interact with our Thor and Loki god of stories, the 80s avengers episode was one of my favorites and i hope we see more of them. I could like to think in the 80s avengers episode hope was the one to first call them the avengers as a reference to wasp being the one to call them that when they first assembled in the comics also i can see hope joining as wasp when she's older same with peter and speaking of peter i would definitely like to think his future hero costume would be his classic star lord outfit and them finding mantis when they get to ego's planet. I can also see peter going on his own adventure in space meeting some of his guardians friends along the way, Happy New Years.
Great feedback on the vid. I want to see Kahhori in live action, too. That would be amazing. And Hela the goddess of light meeting up with Thor would be very cool as well. I think your idea about Hope being the first to call the 80's team "the Avengers" would be a nice touch. Seeing Hope and Peter together was very cool. So much to love about this season. Can't wait for season 3. And Happy New Year to you as well!
2x1: Since 2x4 tells us that Korg had already gone to Sakaar by 2012 (unless Sakaar's time dilation threw Tony several years into the future), I wonder if Korg left Sakaar, just happened to be on Xandar in 2014, and then traveled back to Sakaar before 2017, OR if Korg was one of Ronan's Sakaaran warriors that we were told were fighting for Ronan in GotG (maybe Korg and Miek actually met while both working for Ronan). I think it's also possible that Howard could have been captured by the Collector fairly close to the events of GotG (which could explain him asking the Collector questions like why he lets Cosmo lick him), and therefore the branch doesn't HAVE to be after Ronan got the Power Stone. But I do agree that that's the most likely timing. 2x3: I don't know that we have to interpret Happy calling Maria "Director" as confirmation that she is the Director of SHIELD in 2x3's universe. That's certainly a possibility, but other possibilities include that she's still the Deputy Director under Fury, and this episode takes place in 2013, and Happy just referred to her as "Director" instead of "Deputy Director" for convenience. (Though of course that wouldn't work unless we place Iron Man 3 in 2012, and it would mean that Tony decided to rebuild the Iron Legion within less than a year after destroying them all... though that's still a problem if this episode takes place in 2014 if we place Iron Man 3 in 2013. Or Maria's job title while working for Stark after she left SHIELD could be Director. It does look like she's wearing a SHIELD uniform, but it would make a lot more sense that she's hanging around Avengers Tower if she's working for Stark than it would if she's running SHIELD. I do think it's possibly canon that Tony and Bruce began working on trying to cure rage Hulk as early as 2013/2014, and that research simply never came to fruition until Endgame. In which case I suspect Bruce destroyed that blood sample long before Brave New World, just like we saw him doing with the blood samples in She-Hulk. The EDITH 1.0 thing was interesting to me though because it either implies that Tony was a huge hypocrite during Civil War as he never disclosed the existence of the EDITH satellite despite signing the Sokovia Accords, or, more likely IMO, EDITH 1.0 was a very different program than the one we saw in Far From Home (it also makes me wonder if EDITH 1.0 was still an acronym for "Even Dead I'm the Hero", which means Tony expected to die that early in his hero career, or if Tony changed the acronym closer to the events of Endgame). 2x4: I saw another comment on another forum questioning the 2x4 branch point because Tony's armor behaves the way it does in Iron Man 3 with him being able to remotely summon it to himself, which, as far as we know, wasn't how it operated in The Avengers. This person even posited that perhaps the reason the portal was able to close before Tony made it back through was because of the different make up of his armor causing him to fall or fly at a different rate. I also liked that the 2x4 post-credits scene essentially semi-puts to rest the remaining mystery about what happened to the Grandmaster in Ragnarok's post-credits scene. In other words... it doesn't really matter. The people of Sakaar almost definitely couldn't kill him. So he's no longer the ruler of Sakaar (probably), but he's still out there somewhere. I don't think Sky World was an afterlife. Rewatching the beginning of the episode, it looks like the Tesseract landed on a foreign alien planet, and this is the place that became Sky World. I just have to wonder if the Sky World Space Stone started randomly opening portals throughout the galaxy to itself, or if the Space Stone part of the Tesseract landed on Sky World while another shard of the Tesseract landed on Earth and became the Forbidden Lake, which is what linked the two. 2x6: As far as I can tell, in reality the Mohawk people encountered the Dutch and the French, but never the Spanish in any conquistador-centric events. So the change in this universe led to Queen Isabella I sending her people to Kahhori's village when she didn't before (unless that's just a fundamental change in the MCU compared to our universe - apparently Queen Isabella was also known to tell her explorers to treat the natives peacefully and leave them alone, so her character is extremely different from how it was in our universe). Interestingly the Watcher says "in your universe" Odin left the Tesseract in Tonsberg, so he appears to be narrating the events of the show to someone from 616 or another universe that didn't diverge until after the events of Tonsberg. 2x7: I think it's interesting that Odin was unaware of any items on Earth that could challenge a god, so that's something to look out for; it implies, for example, that the Time Stone and Darkhold either weren't on Earth yet or were also hidden from Odin's knowledge. 2x8: I agree with you. It would be inconsistent to call the events of this episode an incursion. I also think it would be strange (though I suppose not impossible) for the Time Stone to be pulling people from multiple different universes and throwing them all into the 1602 universe, so that makes me wonder if the Steve from this episode is the same Steve from 2x3's universe (or a universe branching off of the events of 2x3) to explain why Happy is the Freak. Peggy says she believes two universes are stuck together, so that implies that it's characters from one universe that have been thrown into 1602. 2x9: I thought it was interesting that Strange Supreme was seemingly just capturing "universe killers" or "pure heroes". It has some strange implications like the idea that the Freak is a universe killer or a pure hero... also the idea that Peggy is presumably not a universe killer/pure hero (unless Strange simply decided to spare her because he knows her and decided that he didn't need to sacrifice her for the spell to work). I also thought it was strange that Peggy was able to hold all six Infinity Stones in her hand with fingerless gloves (after doffing the Infinity Armor) without any of them hurting her. Does that mean the Infinity Ultron Infinity Stones (or at least Power Stone/Mind Stone/Aether since those are the only ones that have been shown to have harmful effects on those exposed to them; we know 616's Soul and Time don't automatically hurt the wielder) don't have the same effect as the 616 stones despite all of What If...? purportedly being branches of 616? Or does armor-less Peggy have some sort of protection that is beyond the level of half-Celestial? Or was she holding the stones in such a way that her hand was only touching the nonharmful stones which had the harmful stones within them? For that matter, since we're told in 1x9 that "Every universe is different, each one just a fraction unique. Thus the Infinity Stones are unique," how does that work if they're all branches of the same universe? If they're all branches of the same universe then the Infinity Stones that created the main universe are the same stones that created the "What If Ultron Won" branch and the Strange Supreme branch and the Captain Carter branch. Where did the fractional differences come from? Are the What If...? episodes not actually all branches of 616, or does the act of the universe branching somehow change everything on a fundamental level, including the Infinity Stones, that are copied over? Is that how HWR determined what the Sacred Timeline was and what the branches were? It wasn't just the timeline that led to his birth but was also the timeline where there were no fractional changes due to universe branching?
Great feedback! I agree with most of it...just a few thoughts below... 2x1: I'm thinking it must have branched earlier. Perhaps Ronan betrayed Thanos a few years before. And in that case, Groot hadn't met Rocket, Drax wasn't yet in prison, Korg hadn't left for Sakaar, and Howard wasn't yet caught by the collector. 2x4: I thought Tony's armor did come to him in Avengers. He was thrown out the window by Loki and it chased after him. But if it didn't work quite the same, then ig the branch must have occurred earlier and the armor was different in the branch? 2x9: I wonder if perhaps Kahhori made a shield around the stones using her space stone powers so that Peggy wasn't directly touching the stones? Otherwise, it should have atomized Peggy's hand. 2x9: So, let me start by saying I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate the infinity stone crusher. However, it exists, so we need to deal with it. My guess is that when a universe branches, it creates stones that are "a fraction unique" by virtue of the branching. The changes are so minor that the stones from one branch universe can work in another branch universe. However, the crusher doesn't function due to that small uniqueness. Oh, did I mention that I HATE the infinity stone crusher? Wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U 2x1: Man, I wish they would give us What If episodes where the branching points are actually where they say they are! These oddities and inconsistencies that can only easily be explained away by earlier branching points are annoying! Lol 2x4: Hmm, I'd have to double-check that. I thought the commenter I read was correct about that becoming a thing in Iron Man 3, but you could be right. 2x9: Yeah, maybe that would work. We'd still have to hand-wave that Space Stone powers can allow you to allow someone else to use the Infinity Stones without actually touching them, which isn't thoroughly satisfying to me, but it's comic book logic, and they've certainly done crazier things in the comics (not sure offhand if they've done crazier in the movies/shows yet), so I could live with it. And yes, the Infinity Crusher is such a headache! And it didn't even play a part in 2x4 to really justify its inclusion in 1x9 other than as a brief red herring! Overall I quite liked both finales, but man do they make continuity difficult sometimes... Hope you're having a Happy New Year as well!
Beautifully said...let the record show we are starting off 2024 in agreement. I sense it will be a good year! But seriously, love all your excellent feedback. You always provide amazing insight!
Love it! You touched upon the aspect of What If that interests me the most, which is all the things that the show has revealed about the MCU sacred timeline! My favorite would have to be how the SSR acquired the vibranium from Wakanda to make Cap's shield. And along with that, the fact that SHIELD knew that Wakanda was technologically advanced. I didn't know about that explanation of how Captain Carter's timeline led to Hope becoming the Wasp and joining the Avengers earlier! I was totally wondering about that! (My initial guess was that it was Janet still as the Wasp, that she didn't get stuck in the Quantum Realm in that timeline.) The real explanation about women being inspired by Captain Carter is really cool.
Yeah, I really love learning lore about the main timeline, which normally only happens via flashbacks in the movies and shows. But What If provides lots of fun little facts in each episode. And I agree, the backstory that A.C. Bradley provided for Captain Carter's timeline was pretty cool!
My theory for episode 8 which can explain Happy Hogan being the freak is that the universe cap is from is the same universe as the christmas universe from episode 3 which is where happy becomes the freak since the watcher doesn't truly narrate over the change in the timeline but rather he talks about how captain carter isnt supposed to be here. I also think that the 1602 we see isnt a different universe or timeline but rather just an earlier point in time linked to that future in that timeline since the time stone would have time connecting powers not multiverse connecting powers so it connects points in time.
Yes and Yes. I 100% agree on both. I think that makes alot of sense for the Freak and I was actually trying to say what you said so well regarding to timelines being compressed in one universe. Thanks for summing it up so well. It's sorta like what the Ancient One did in the first season by splitting Strange into two timelines and then putting them together in the same universe.
In the 1602 comics, Steve is sent to the past, 1602. Now, his presence there created* characters who aren't supposed to be there yet. This could be the same case for this episode. Perhaps 1602 Happy is not pulled by the time Stone, but he is actually an original 1602 character created by Steve's presence there
@yudhazacharias9377 Right...if Steve's universe in Ep 8 is the same as the Freak's from Ep 3, then the branch did indeed start in 2014 and Ep 8 is a continuation from Ep 3. Will be interesting to see how the timeline book shows that the branching occurred.
@@AbitofEverything4U so how come it pulled Loki and Hela who are supposed to be dead when Thanos invade? Listen, everyone else in 1602 behave as if that is their world, not from the future. Let's just go like the comics here. Steve being there created this new 1602 Loki
As Why Carter Can Hear And See The Watcher I Think It’s Probably Just An Exposure Thing Where Once You See Or Hear Him Once You Can Do It Again And The More Time Your Exposed To Him The Better You Can See Or Hear Him.
After what if the dialogue of reed Richard's make sense"the greatest threat to the multiverse is dr strange " I mean we seen in MOM a evil variant who caused Incursions in multiple realities
6:08 They should probably change that to New York 1989. Also 26:50 This was around the time Rodrigo Alphonso Gonzalo searched for the Fountain of Youth!
I'm a little confused about Sky World. I know it's the afterlife in IRL Mohawk belief systems, but the episode doesn't really portray that because the souls of their dead people on Earth don't go there. Kahhori and the Sky People were all teleported there physically. Which makes me think it's just a distant planet in normal spacetime and not a separate spiritual plane like Valhalla or the Ancestral Plane. Seems like a weird choice not to have it be the actual Mohawk afterlife in the MCU but perhaps that was intentional.
Yeah, it's definitely a unique take on the afterlife, but I thought it was a bold swing to go that direction. Will be interesting to see what they do with Sky World in the future, assuming we see Kahhori again.
@@nailinthefashion I agree...it was a unique take on the afterlife and a very creative way to explain it. I'm hoping Kahhori appears again and maybe we'll learn more about the lore of Sky World.
For now one can say that Hammer wearing the Hulkbuster is the closest he gets to his Lego variant as Detroit Steel😂. Love Justin Hammer too. Also happy New Year
Such a great video, I think that the point about the timeline branching and being slightly different prior to the actual ‘What if?’ Moment is true. It seems logical and is an easy hand wave if they want to do anything out of the ordinary without breaking the timeline. I kinda wish they would’ve thought about that prior to stating in the first season how important those big moments were but it is what it is
Great feedback...yeah, I do wish they were a bit more careful with the timelines, but I'm also happy with the stories themselves, so as you said, we may just need to do a bit of hand waving to get around the loose timeline management. Thx so much for watching the video. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Great video. I needed that! One thing though, 34:06 - 1600s and 2000s being "compressed" doesn't sound like separate branches. It sounds like either a 400 yr section of a single timeline-branch got squeezed together into one moment, or more likely one moment from 1600s and one moment from 2000s, both from a single timeline-branch were somehow joined in that way. And if they can't undo that anomaly, the whole 'universe' (timeline-branch) will fall apart. I presume that's why once the anomaly was fixed, everyone disappeared (the branch being restored).
Actually, you said what I was trying to say...only you said it alot better...lol! Yeah, I didn't mean to imply two separate branches were compressed but rather two points in time in the same branch were compressed. Thanks for stating it so well. And wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U Or maybe I was wrong after all. Maybe the timeline split when Steve missed the hit, then the damaged time stone in that new split off branch thrown that moment into the common past of two branches? I don't know anymore! Anyway, all the best in 2024 for you and yours!
To me for how Peggy could hear The Watcher is you eather have to be full/part celestial like Star Lord at the end of season 1 or met/interacted with him before hand or like in Doctor Strange Supreme's case absorbing all these magical demons/monsters.
Man it's so nice to have another video by you, it feels like it's been forever. You could say it's been a year ba dum tiss. I hope you had some happy holidays and a happy start to this new year. Sorry for the essay, I know I always do them but man there's just always so much I love to give my thoughts on. For episode 1, I simply think that everything we see with things like Yondus history with nebula are all after the branch. Because it doesn't really make sense for nebula to get involved with the ravagers in any way when she's constantly training and fighting for her life with Gamora and Thanos. Same applies to groot, Drax, korg and meek and Howard the duck. While it is a little dark with all the ruckus that this new Ronin caused I do think it's possible that Rocket died at some point and thats why he's not there with groot. For episode 2, I do think your probably right with the branch starting a year earlier and perhaps Yondu didn't have as much heart then, thats why he ultimately gave quill up. But for Hank, for one I don't like the idea that he just happens to quit a year earlier, it just seems kinda arbitrary and unrelated to the branch, so my personal headcanon is that Hank just quits several times. Hank has always had a very touchy relationship in the comics both with shield and teams in general so I totally think he's the type who could leave and come back and leave again. That just seems perfect for him. And while I'm totally down for an ancient wakanda or at least the history of wakanda series, isnt our current knowledge that it's going to be an okoye based origin story? I don't think it would touch on any of this info if thats the case, though maybe we could get some tidbits from tchaka. For Episode 3, considering that Hill was director, yea the branch must've been a while back and we dont really know where. Though I do believe that Happy mentioned that Tony had been working on that hulk blood serum for a while so I do think it was intended for that to be on the sacred timeline. Totally think EDITH was made a while ago too which seems kinda odd but knowing Tony and him always improving on things this makes sense. Happy being the freak is awesome, nice catch I didn't notice that. And I did notice that Darcy easter egg, but not the subtitles, thats hilarious. For episode 4, yea I really liked that while this episode gave us a ton of humor with the grandmaster, that I honestly wasn't much of a fan of, they did give him some more depth with knowing more then he lets on. As for korg, him being on Xandar could be due to that branch, perhaps ronin went after the grandmaster and collector since they're super powerful and may try to take the stone (if he has it) before going to Xandar and thats how korg ended up on Xandar in episode 1 and how he's still on Sakaar on episode 4. For episode 5, I definitely loved that the wasp and more females were there that makes so much sense, though I did see someone on reddit say she's gotta be wrong on the forming of shield because hank and Janet were like 9, I haven't had the time to fact check this myself but they do seem quite a bit younger then Howard so idk how that works unless shield was formed way later. And man between the chronology and the widow writing I really dont think this was thought out super well. I still enjoyed it in fact this episode was such a cool redo of winter soldier with Peggy but I dont feel like it was intentional to write widow as a jerk, and get the whole supposedly hank and Janet helped form shield as kids if thats true. I give praise where its due but I also gotta criticize when its due too, so think things through better next time lol. Also yea Hawkeye being a dad must be common knowledge in other universes, again maybe they didn't think this entirely through, though this is really nitpicking and doesn't matter whereas I feel like widows lines do matter quite a bit. For the watchers realm man this is the perfect thing for a book marvel, give us a what if book or even better kill two birds with one stone and make a realms dimensions and realities book and explain this as well as how the quantum realm works too. Plus more details about things like the mirror dimension and others work. Please marvel! For episode 6, man I always love making canon more beliefs, afterlifes gods etc. While Thor love and thunder did a lot wrong I really liked that part of it, and as a christian I really loved the god of carpentry joke, that was awesome. But also things like moon knight gave us an afterlife and gods too. I'm always down for more. Kahori was really awesome and an amazing episode, honestly might be my favorite episode, it was very well done. For episode 7, yeahhhh they really didn't think that one through, I didn't even notice that. Love you marvel, and I really really loved this season but you gotta do better with continuity, you literally just released this book, people are bound to keep track of a book they just read and go wait didn't wenwu come after? Anyway back to the episode proper, 100% agree I really want to know more about the 10 rings origin. Also this episode probably more than any other doesn't fit with its title, what if hela got the ten rings? she never did, cmon marvel its right there and you've used similar things before just say what if hela was redeemed or something similar. I always felt that heimdall could only see the physical 9 realms not any other dimensions or anything like that, so not seeing ta lo (hope I spelled that right) makes sense. For episode 8, thank you so much for explaining the branch here, I must've missed that line from Peggy somehow and while I saw the ending I was so confused as to how this works, your explanation makes it make a lot more sense. However I do still feel its a bit of an out there explanation to just try to give us a standard marvel comics what if, that doesn't have to be based on the main marvel universe at all. The appearance of the freak made me question maybe this episode is a subtle sequel to episode 3, I mean how else did happy become the freak after the branch in 2018 but before the universe gets these two timelines collapsed? it just dissent work imo. I do think most of this can be chalked up to the time stone being a cornerstone of reality, but the freak? idk that would be as weird as having sakarrian iron man show up. For episode 9, I do think what if is important, but I dont know if its only due to the opening. I mean I am Groot got a custom opening as did werewolf by night and we haven't seen any references about them yet, in fact we've had a noticeable lack of references to them, though that could be due to the timelines of both of them. Either way for me personally as an avid avengers campus enjoyer, with the new King Thanos ride, whenever that comes out, what if is already important, But I do think that what if is absolutely going to connect back to the main mcu proper. I mean we did get captain Carter on 838, while not the same one, I dont think it's a coincidence. Maybe oatu or captain carter will connect during secret wars. Strange being a 5th dimensional being was really cool, doesn't that put him on the same level as the watcher? I thought the watcher was said to be a 5th dimensional being somewhere but I could be misremembering. While a great episode I was really bummed to see strange supreme get so little screen time and supposedly die. I still hope he comes back but he's probably done. he's one of the few characters along with Loki from his show and maybe captain Carter where I really prefer the alternate version to the main one. Honestly I wanted to see him win for the lore ramifications. I mean at this point he was probably strongest character we've ever seen in the mcu, easily going up against the infinity stones like it's nothing and only being beaten because it was a 2v1 ultimately. Of course this isnt counting characters we've only barely seen like the one above all or eternity and maybe oatu is stronger but considering his fight with infinity ultron I kinda doubt it. and man that secret wars theory is something else, I hope thats true, I really want it to be but I kinda doubt it. we'll have to see. But man this season was so so good, better than season 1 for sure (I rewatched it right before this) but while it has more good, it also has more bad. Continuity was rough in this season. You can make it all work but it's not easy, and even the creator got some things wrong because they didn't bother to fact check. You gotta do that and you gotta make sure these episodes make sense, episode 8 for me was very hard to follow. I like them going kinda off the rails to give us some more stuff but it's gotta work and this was dangerously close to not working. And it seems like season 3 is coming really soon maybe this year since we already got a teaser for it? what?!?!? thats awesome. I'm absolutely looking forward to more and I hope they can keep on giving me the hugely op villains at the end I really love that. And can you believe it echo comes out in like a week! fun time for the mcu, they're definitely giving us a ton of stuff for the turn of the new year. barely a week between projects is the type of marvel timing I love, and I really liked about the start of the Disney plus era. Hopefully quality keeps up but I think it will.
Wow...fantastic feedback as always. I stopped what I was doing to read it all. I think you were spot on with your analysis. Regarding Dr. Strange being a 5th dimensional being, my apologies if I said that, as I was meaning to say Strange was referring to the Watcher as a 5-D being. But yeah, excellent feedback. And I agree, as a fellow Christian, I think the afterlife stuff is really cool. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U really appreciate you taking the time to read it all, I sometimes feel like I get a little in over my head and talk a bit too much about this stuff but I find it so interesting and really love the mcu so it’s nice that you take the time to read it thank you. And good clarification on strange, that does make sense and maybe I misheard but I do also think strange supreme is incredibly powerful being able to easily go against all the infinity stones at once.
Oh, I'm totally with you on diving deep into this stuff and going to insane levels of analysis. It's definitely part of what makes the MCU so much fun. And yeah, Strange Supreme is crazy powerful. Such a great character. Shame to lose him this season, but it was a fitting end to his story, I felt.
Happy new year! You are one of my favorite creators, I couldn't go a whole year without wishing you a happy one😁 I had a rough last year, so im really gonna work hard this year for the things I want for myself
Oh my...I'm so sorry to hear that 2023 was a bad year for you. I agree...you should work hard for the things you want for yourself and I'm hoping 2024 is much better for you. I really appreciate your kind words about the channel as well. Onwards and upwards in the New Year!
Once again, much appreciation to you for the efforts of making this multiverse stuff make sense. I really want Marvel to make some sort of official statement, or a book, or even an in-canon comic, just to get it out there. I'm 50/50 on Yondu and "Nebby" being a canon thing. It's possible, and it would be funny...but I just have a hard time imagining Nebula being friends with anyone while with the Black Order. One of my biggest disappoints of The Marvels was no Yon-Rogg. Even if their rivalry was just played for laughs in the sequel, I still want more of him and Carol interacting! I'm glad you also noticed the weird timeline discrepancies of the Ego episode. Makes me wonder if them saying 1988 was just a mistake. Otherwise we have to think Peter was born a year earlier, or Meredith died a year earlier, neither of which I really like. Also, just to note, the Hulk Cage Loki got put in IS different than the one Peter gets put in. You can tell because this one has arms facing down, while the Hulk cage has the arms going upward. So Peter's is likely a 1.0, and Hulk's is a 2.0. 22:57 - This was so funny, thank you. XD
Great feedback on the vid. I 100% agree...I would loooove for Marvel to give us a "book of the multiverse"...maybe OB can author it! I agree with all your comments regarding Yon-Rogg, Ego's episode, and the Hulk Cage 1.0. And yeah, that Widow situation was indeed abit comical. I just couldn't resist. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
42:10 This white hole might be Supreme Strange’s universe being recreated. Though that would be a bit confusing since it’s an alternate timeline not an entire universe, but who knows?
Thanks for the positive feedback on the vid...yeah, would be a dream job to work for Marvel. But making vids about the timeline is the next best thing. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts...and wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U Happy New Year to you too and may 2024 bring more success to your channel, even though there isn't that much Marvel content coming out this year.
25:10 THANK YOU!!! I honestly could care less about the variant shenanigans at this point I just want to know more about the lore of the multiverse! I sense it coming soon though…. I hope
Great video. Episode 1: I don't think Ronan had the power stone otherwise I'm not sure how he wouldn't be able to defeat the planet protection eventually, even if he needed to bring a more strong weapon to power with the stone. Was cool to see Yon-Rogg again, at least we have an idea of why he wasn't in the Marvels. Episode 2: Cool to see the way the managed to connect all characters from the Earth ones to the alien ones like Thor or Mar-Vell (but I think Lawson gave up the info of the Kree easily). About them knowing about Wakanda in the past, I think it's just that they always retcon whaat things were known in the past based on what we already know from the future. In phase 1 it didn't seem like characters knew about Infiity Stones, but in Cap Carter episode there was a book that mention the "space stone" instead of the Tesseract I believe, also Loki in S1 ep 1 knew about the inifinity stones while in theAvengers movie I don't think he ever brought that term at any point. SHIELD being SHIELD in the past, etc... They clearly throw that kind of info because we as an audience already know about it, even if the characters shouldn't know. At least here we could say it was SHIELD who knew. Also I liked that they show Howard being part of Proyect Pegasus so that shows how Lawson makes contact with the Tesseract in 616. Episode 3: It was funny, i liked that they brought Hammer back, the main problem with the main MCU is that they kill most of her villains, but at least here you can see them doing other things. Episode 4: I liked the episode, it was a really funny one, but it was clearly not the one that was scrapped from S1, they didn't explain what was that machine Gamora used in the last episode, they focus only on Grandmaster and not Thanos, I thougth Tony and gamora vs Thanos would be a different episode, not just a last minute scene. Episode 5: Liked how they combined the Winter Soldier plot with the Black Widow lore, I don't think Hydra would save Steve if they were the ones behind Hydra Stomper, they would probably train a new pilot and that's it, but we know less about the Red Room so maybe they would have him in their control. Episode 6: I won't deny it, didn't like that Kahori was just more powerful than everyone that come before her just because she is the main character I guess. I know she left when spanish soldiers were invading so she had the urgency to leave, but maybe they could manage the whole powers thing differently. Episode 7: An interesting Crossover, i was expecting it and I didn't feel disappointed. It was cool to see the Shang Chi cast again, but I'm still waiting for Shang Chi himself. Episode 8: I liked it, I only have 2 problems with it: 1° The trailers spoil you Steve is the one who caused the problem. 2° I honestly didn't get why Cap. Carter was the one destined to save 1602, if it's because she wouldn't give up and will try to help strangers, that also goes for other heroes... Episode 9: Not sure how Kahori knew Strange plans. And I'm not sure of what to think about Strange motivations and the fact that the Watcher suggested he succeded by erasing himself... Wasn't Strange's whole plan to bring back his Christine Palmer, the one that knows him and loves him? The Chrisitine at the end was born in a universe without him so she never met him, never fell in love with him, it's technically a different Christine, so I don't know what he tried to achieve...
Wow...very insightful feedback. I enjoyed reading it all and you said alot of the things I was thinking as well. I definitely enjoy the What If episodes, but they sometimes play a little loose with the timeline and the plot. But they are still alot of fun none-the-less. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all the episodes!
Hey anybody got the reference "The monster in the iron mask" It was for a few seconds i thought it is him it is him🤩 then peggy called him bruce i was like oh it's him 🫤
Yeah, that may well be a good timeline vid to make soon. I'm still so surprised they put out the timeline book w/o those shows in it, and right after its release, they changed their mind. So I may wait abit and see how things pan out with Echo, but it is pretty exciting. The Netflix shows were fantastic and there's never been a good reason for them not to be canon.
@@AbitofEverything4U I saw this on twitter but honesty makes sense, The original plan for the original Daredevil born again show was to keep it seperate to just the MCU. But once the show had to be rewritten and saw the reception of people wanting the Netflix show cannon. They then changed there mind for the fans. Just a thought, but makes sense why it wasn’t in the timeline book.
I think the image in 42:11 is the Big Bang after the forge created a Universe. I think the forge actually created a whole new universe that is outside of 616. Which explains why the watcher sends Peggy back to the 616 Yggdrassil because Peggy was literally outside of 616. Also do note that a new branched universe is created from alternate decisions. In this new forged universe, it wasn't from any decision but merely a "creation". Hence the big bang & origin universe.
Really enjoyed this season and as I said a few months back I've updated the Watchers MCU wiki page that was really fun. I had previously learned about Happy being the Freak in the comics early last year but thought it would be something they wouldn't have adapted so I was shocked by episode 3. I think my favorite episodes for this season was either two or three.
I had a lot of fun with with season. Even if the series presents some inconsistencies with the actual MCU "Sacred Timeline", I think they still did their best to follow the basic logic "These reality branch out off 616", at the point that a unique reality like 1602 is clarified as an unstable altered world created by accident. I'm glad they didn't complicate things like in S1 with the "absolute point" in Ep 4, character like Wanda-Merlin and Doctor Strange Supreme traveling or transporting character from different realities is consistent with what we saw so far with Endgame and Loki. I would have prefered if Uatu used a more generalized term like 'reality', or even 'branches', instead of 'universes', but I guess they chose to not change the wording because of S1. Regarding what The Watcher and Carter are looking at after he saved her (42:04), I read on Twitter someone theorizing it's the 616 Universe, and that on the left side, we can see grimples of other two parallel universes on the prysmic wall, always with the "black-hole" kind of design.
Excellent feedback on the season. I'm very excited to see what we get in season 3. As for what the Watcher and Carter are looking at, I've seen a lot of suggestions that it's the creation of the new universe by Strange Supreme after he fell in the forge. I like that idea as it does transition right into that new universe with Christine in it. Love that that tie the show in with Loki. Sooooo cool!
Thank you for actually understanding the 8th episode. I've been having to explain this to soooo many people, and none of them are taking me seriously(the Wanda stans lol)
Yeah, that 8th episode was a trickly one, but it was very clever once you understand it. Keep spouting truths to your friends...they'll come around eventually! lol!
Been waiting for this! Funnily, this season of what if may or may not have played some inspiration to my What If pitch but I'm hoping you'll enjoy what I have. That being said I never considered the Yon-Ragg implications. Didn't realize the Wakanda series would dive into the history though. I did not clock the fact in that universe SHIELD did not fall. I also did not catch the Watcher repairing his realm ... you always find these neat details. The Kahhori episode was ... really fun. I loved the Hela episode that was so good. I do wonder if the Hela episode actually takes place later in the timeline than you might think given Odin's personality traits in the episode. I really loved the 1602 episode so so much. Ultimately I think the finale is my favourite episode between the opening, Captain Carter, Strange Supreme's ending and of course that Loki tree. Also happy new year!
Excellent feedback. Yeah, the Hela episode is the trickiest one regarding timing. The timeline book puts her banishment well before Wenwu found the rings, but I do have to wonder if she was actually banished after Thor was born but while he was still a child. Maybe they will move that around in the next timeline book. And yeah, the Kahhori episode was great and the finale was insanity. And Happy New Year to you as well!
Yeah, really sorry for the dry spell between vids. It was great to get one more in for 2023. Really appreciate you watching and wishing you a Happy New Year as well!
I agree...that What If season was a very positive step forward for the MCU. Really enjoyed this season alot. Looking forward to a great 2024. Speaking of...wishing you a Happy New Year!
Additional comment about episode 8 Hela says that Odin banished her around the time he decided to have Thor. In this episode, she even mentions that Frigga is Odin's new girlfriend. So I am guessing Hela's imprisonment happened around 960 AD, not long before Thor and Loki's birth. Also, we don't know when Wenwu found the Ten Rings, just that it happened ~1000 yeara before the 21st century. So it could have well been 1100. The timeline book is vague in purpose. I think of it as a new piece of lore which will make the timeline book authors re-evaluate the order of events for the second volume.
Excellent feedback. I agree with all of that. It would be nice if the timeline book moved WenWu finding the rings prior to Hela's banishment. Nice call!
16:07 so i think the reason tony didn't fall though the portal is because in the sacred timeline he used his suit parts to accelerate his fall but in the episode he didn't do it. (I sent a video on the theories channel on discord a while back if you're interested)
Really liked that season. My favourite episode was probably Nebula's one (pls more Nova, Disney), but Kahhori was great too, just because it was different (plus, I instantly recognized her: Queen Isabella of Spain was voiced by Carolina Ravassa, which makes her the 3rd Overwatch Voice Actor in Marvel, as far as I know (the 6th, I think, if you count Star Wars as well))
I loved the Nebula episode as well. Probably my favorite. And I liked Kahhori, too. Interesting tidbit about Carolina Ravassa. Thanks for sharing that. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
You know come to think of it, Kang has already invented tech to summon ppl or multiple ppl like we saw in the ant man 3 end credits. I also feel like the watcher showing that trees ties the series and her with both comic accurate info. There’s the multiveral captain britan corps which can play a role down the line as well. It sounds like we are definitely seeing connections and more ways like you said this series will be important and helpful for setting up different lands and different spaces. The 1602 episode showed ways they could break up different areas and battle world. this will all connect in what we see down the line towards secret wars.
Excellent point about the 1602 episode perhaps showing how battle world may be laid out. Love that! Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. And wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U dude me too when season one came out I swear I watched each episode like five times waiting for the next week and then this I couldn't even stay caught up with breakdowns and everything but it was amazing it was probably better than season 1 honestly
Possibility, the Spanish queen shown in the Kahhori episode was Isabella's daughter called Juana the Mad, note, woman born into powerful families would be declared insane so their families could control their power and wealth.
Also I sort of think of it as the tiniest change can make a difference; which is why things aren’t always consistent time wise. Like it might not have massively changed enough to cause a ‘what if’ but someone could have just got up an hour earlier one day which lead them to meet someone sooner or something. Does that make sense
kinda bummed What If is ending in Season 3, there are so many potential stories that they could do, it could go on forever. I really enjoyed this season, I wish we got more Marvel animation!
I agree...this season really blew me away. I'd love to have even more seasons beyond S3. Hope this season performed really well and it encourages them to make more! And wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@iraford5788Yeah, i've heard that rumor as well. I do wonder, however, after this season did so well if they may continue to extended it beyond season 3. We'll have to wait and see!
I agree...that finale prepped us for what we may be seeing in Secret Wars with pure insanity happening on the battlefield. I'm so excited for the possibilities!
Heyo! Been a while... Anyways, great video as always, I really enjoyed this season of What If...? and I liked the release strategy a lot, it was like opening a new Christmas present every day. Regarding Korg being in Sakaar in 2012 but in Xandar in 2014, sometimes a fun explanation might just be the right one. I think Korg simply traveled a lot back then, or maybe he lived in Sakaar in 2012 but was on holiday in Xandar in 2014. Either way, I think there are plenty of ways to explain the slight inconsistencies between mainline 616 and these branches (except for that "Wenwu being born 600 years earlier" one, yikes). I loved A.C. Bradley's explanation for why Wasp was in the main Avengers team back in 2012, it's really well thought out. I'm just wondering if there was any reason why Hulk wasn't in the team. Maybe it was like the comics, where they thought of Hulk as being too unstable? There are a lot of ways it could go. One thing to note is that in the present day of the 1602 episode (2018), Hela and Loki could've been alive by 2018. Maybe the branch happened earlier. I don't think we ever get an explicit confirmation by the Watcher that the cause of the branch was Cap hitting the time stone. Maybe in that branch, Hela even became an ally to the Avengers, instead of a villain, which would explain why she and Thor got along during that part of the episode. He even called her his queen, and grieved when she was taken by the portal. It's good to see reinforced that 616 branches are way different than complete universes by Wanda in the 1602 episode, really clears some of the plot holes regarding infinity stones from season 1. I love the idea of episode 9 teasing Secret Wars, it truly introduced so many concepts, and the amount of villain cameos from that episode was epic. In fact, there's a theory that the Hela and Surtur from episode 9 aren't actually from branches, but instead, regular 616. It basically says that the green light that came from Hela in Ragnarok could've been Strange grabbing her and Surtur from a point where they both were in the same place and could grab two at once. It also explains the reaction Hela and Surtur had when they saw each other (the "YOU!"), which would make sense considering they pretty much died because of one another. One thing I did notice this season was that the ending of episodes made some of the universes actually better than 616. Examples being: •The Avengers being formed in the 80s, meaning that they're much better prepared from the beginning and the team is allowed to grow even further as more super-people start showing up (plus, the Winter Soldier didn't continue being a weapon, therefore Howard doesn't die in 1991). •Iron Man and Gamora killing Thanos back in 2012, which means that Age of Ultron doesn't happen (Tony doesn't have alien PTSD and therefore doesn't want to wrap the world in a suit of armor), and Infinity War doesn't happen because there is no Thanos. •HYDRA not being able to continue growing after the 40s thanks to Bucky and Cap, which means that S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't get infiltrated. •Kahhori's universe achieving world peace back in the 1500s, which implies a period of prosperity and possibly no conflict or slavery. •Hela and Wenwu forming an alliance ages ago, becoming protectors of the universe and destroying intergalactic threats like Thanos. In fact, I don't think any episodes this season ended with tragedies, which was in sharp contrast to season 1 where: Ego attacked Earth and likely succeeded, most of the Avengers were killed by Hank Pym, Doctor Strange lost his entire reality, zombies overtook the planet, Killmonger killed Iron Man, War Machine AND T'Challa; and Ultron became a multiverse destroyer. Yeah, quite the contrast. Finally, interestingly enough, they dropped a teaser for What If...? season 3 even BEFORE season 2 had finished, with Bucky and Red Guardian back in the 80s, which I find strange but intriguing. Does that mean we're getting season 3 sooner than we thought? Or is it another "Iron Man on Sakaar'' situation, where this one was meant to be part of season 2 but they couldn't finish it? Either way, the breakdown was great, hope you've had a nice Christmas and New Year, keep up the amazing work!
Wow...amazing commentary. I have nothing to add, as you were spot-on in everything you said. As for that S3 trailer, I do need to post that and if I do, i'll mention that it was indeed an episode that was supposed to be in this season but didn't make it in. And, I do think that we'll be getting S3 sooner than later, which is exciting! Wishing you a Happy New Year!
What If...? season 2 was so much better than season 1, I didn't hate the first season but it felt like it was playing safer than I wanted it to because the studio wasn't sure if the audience would buy it. This season had a lot more fun and Strange Supreme as the big bad was surprising. I want to see an episode in season 3 where Iron Man fights Wenwu because he is now the MCU's adaptation of the Mandarin and Tony never got a chance to fight his comic book arch-nemesis.
Well said...I think S2 really went for it alot more than S1. I enjoyed this season immensely. And I'd be so down for a Tony v. Wenwu fight. Bring it on, Marvel! Wishing you a Happy New year!
@@AbitofEverything4UI know that Aldrich Killian was meant to be the Mandarin and do technically Tony did fight his arch-nemesis in Iron Man 3 but Wenwu's introduction kinda undoes that concept on a rewatch, aren't retcons fun, it's just like reading an older comic book run and you know the ending is either undone or deemed incorrect because of a later story
Right...in fact I did a vid on all the retcons in the MCU. I don't mind a retcon that is really just us learning something we never knew before...which is mostly what Marvel has tried to do. It's a sneaky way of recontextualizing an early story.
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I believe that the branches that make the animated and paint universes are just branches from the Big Bang. Something was different about how the universe came to be and made physics different
@@Cooper_118Yeah, it could be that there's a single big bang and that it created lots of different sets of stones. That's certainly a possible way it could work.
I think Captain Carter being able to hear the Watcher is because she had already met him. He never interacts with people and rarely revisits universes, so he wouldn't have known that the people he reveals himself to will stay aware of him.
That's a good explanation...I think that works well. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Agreed, its almost like she has his phone number lol
@@ItsJustBlakey On speed dial, no less!
What about Strange Supreme and Ultron, though? Are they allowed to find him before he reveals himself to them because of their higher mystic or cosmic awareness? I don't think your theory is invalid, but there is that slight hiccup from those two examples in Season 1.
@@MCLegoboy I think they had grown so powerful that they gained a sort of multiversal awareness. But that is a good counterpoint.
When people ask me the “complicated marvel questions” I just send them to this channel at this point 😂
Too funny! Thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vids. Really appreciate it!
@@doseoflzr
I loved the lore that was sprinkled in for the main timeline, like Hela's backstory and the King of Wakanda giving Vibranium for the war effort.
I agree...that lore was some of my favorite stuff during the episodes!
Actually Thor does say in Infinity War that Odin told him he had a half-sister. Oddly enough that is never said in Ragnarok. Odin just says 'your sister'.. at no point is half-sister said by Odin. But of course he knows Frigga is his mother and Hela is part of the covered up history so he put 2 and 2 together but technically Odin did not tell him that in the short time they had before he died.
Oh wow...great points...yeah, that is really strange that he never said she was his half-sister in Ragnarok but did in Infinity War. I forgot about that line. Excellent feedback. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
My headcanon is that episode 1 branched way earlier than 2014. Before Drax was arrested, before Howard the Duck was put in the Collector's collection and before Korg and Miek went to Sakaar. And if we go by the lore of of episode 4, that is before 2012. We know Ronan was working for Thanos for a very long time, so it seems that in this universe he betrayed him way earlier. Maybe like 2011.
I think that's a fantastic explanation. Nice call!
Glad to see Loki’s tree make an appearance again. This got me wondering what other myths have world trees and is there a superwatcher overseeing the orchard of world trees.
Great point...I love the idea of a super watcher of some sort. I do think the watchers for each multiverse probably chat and hang out in some "watcher's lounge" (patterned after the mysterious teacher's lounge I always assumed was a party room back in school). Also, Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U Would explain GOTG 2's cameo
@@jesusramirezromo2037
Great recap and debrief on the branch points! Love seeing all of them laid out like this!
As for Kahhori's name, its pronounced as "Kah-hor-ti", which I heard in the episode but had to double check online to make sure I was hearing the pronunciation properly. I really hope she shows up in live action at some point, maybe Secret Wars!
Oh how funny...I thought it was "Kah-hor-di", but I couldn't figure out why there was a "d" sound in there, so I ignored it. But the "ti" sound makes alot of sense. Thanks for sharing that. Really loved her character!
Odin should not have been defeated so readily. He can literally go up against a celestial. It would have been so much better for him engage Hera only to reveal that it was simple to test her. The Mandarin??? I am speechless.
Yeah, that was surprising. Perhaps Odin was holding back since it was his daughter, but I agree, it was still a shock to see him defeated. Granted, they did say that the 10 rings can destroy a god, so perhaps they are even more powerful than we guessed?
Might imply the Ten Rings are celestial Technology
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Excellent theory!
The Hulk blood thing seems to me to be foreshadowing for Smart Hulk, we know Tony helped Bruce with the transformation so I think this confirms he’d been looking into it for almost a decade beforehand
I agree...I think that makes alot of sense that Tony was working on helping Bruce all that time. And it gets me even more excited for CA4: Brave New World when we get Red Hulk. Should be epic!
My guess for why some of the characters that are in episode 1 when they shouldn’t be at that time is that after Ronan killed Thanos he went to other planets first, for some reason, and citizens fled to Xandar because they knew it would be safe. But yeah I was really confused when I watched this episode
Ah, now that's a cool suggestion. I'd buy that!
Also it was cool seeing how when Natasha actually physically kills Dreykov, Melina takes his place. So I wonder what happened to Taskmaster in this branched timeline
Great point! Yeah, I wonder what did happen to Taskmaster. That's what makes What If so much fun...seeing all the downstream effects of small changes.
Wrapping 2023 with a long video!
Yeah, had to finish 2023 with a vid. Thanks for watching!
Really loved this season, the episodes felt like completely new stories instead of just altered versions of movies which was an issue of mine in s1
stoked for season 3!
I 100% agree...the episodes were so well crafted...I never knew where they would go next, which is exactly what you expect from a What If story. Loved S2 and can't wait for S3!
201- Thanos decimates Xandar- did he kill Yon-Rogg or free him during that attack?
202- Winter Soldier isn’t really known by SHIELD, he’s a ghost. Remember in Civil War’s footage- Howard recognizes him instantly. The Soldier was an operative SHIELD knew existed but no one who saw him survived (except for Nat).
203- maybe SHIELD didn’t collapse?
205- Black Widow’s “There’s someone inside” is kept in the episode so what were they planning?
208- nope no way that’s an incursion.
Also, Red Skull, Yellowjacket, Hela, Loki, FANDRIL? I wonder how many got “resuscitated” because by the time we watch the episode the rifts have been going for a while.
Thanos deaths- 201, 204, 207,208 (once everyone heads back or maybe he’s been killed already), 209
That’s six deaths.
And no Stark deaths this season
Perfectly balanced.
PLEASE NOOOOO to the reset tease.
If Secret Wars ends with no Infinity Saga heroes and a new world, I’m going to bawl my eyes out.
Excellent feedback. I totally agree with your comments on 201, 203, 205 and 208. On 205, I think they originally planned to have it be a happy ending for Peggy and Steve and then when it was renewed for a second season they decided to go the direction of Steve being a sleeper agent. Love the Thanos death count! And I do think we're getting a soft reboot, but I think we may still keep several Infinity Saga heroes. It will be a merge of heroes from across the multiverse (i.e. X-men, Fantastic Four, etc) along with our favorites from 616. Again, awesome feedback...thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Random thought I had for S2 E3, maybe in this timeline Fury didn’t do such a great job in keeping Hawkeye’s family off Shield’s files so when they got leaked to the public in Winter Soldier it was revealed.
Ah! Now that's a very cool thought...I like that!
29:30 Or Hela's reign lasted longer than it did in the sacred timeline, potentially meaning that Thor's birth is put off. Odin could have not seen the error of his ways till later?
Well said...I'd be down for that reasoning as well. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
This is just a theoretical model but it’s been how i’ve been trying to understand things:
Stacked upon each other are infinite universes/timelines all progressing in their own linear fashion (depicted as Multiple sacred timelines or trees)
Each Prime strand or Sacred timeline have you is that Multiverse’s Prime Timeline (Tree Trunk) and each branch deviating off the trunk are the various infinite what-if scenarios, they are there own universes but each is anchored back to the main 616 (hence why variants all look the same/ except for Loki variants) Loki is Ultimately holding together the 616 Universe and it’s infinite what if Branches but what if Loki’s tree is merely one of a large forest;
an infinite forest with each tree trunk containing their respective multiverse’s prime universe with the branches of each tree being all the various Branched Universe.
Incursions can happen on Difficult levels, in the case of what if episode 8, the Avengers being stranded in the 1600s is causing their reality to collapse: On this Level the incursions are happening on branching timelines and hence localized to that reality.
Based off of the model, the incursion that Stephen could’ve caused between 616 and 838 is a much larger Incursion in comparison as it’s not just two or more branching universes colliding and Undoing each other opposed to 2 Separate Multiversal trees slowly pulling each other together until one or both trees Timber and collapse into one another.
Incursions can happen on the branches at a smaller scale just as two separate alternate Universes can; both cause an ungodly amount of deaths but in the case of non branching universes colliding it’s entire separate Multiverses colliding and collapsing into each other.
Any Variant of a character that doesn’t look like them ex: Spider-man is because that variant comes from a different tree entirely, It’s how the spider verse because there’s an infinite amount of spider peeps on different branches and trees; all connected through the Web Of Life And Destiny:Spider-verse
Main Mcu Timeline (Tree Trunk)
Alternate
What If Timelines (Branches)
the tree is that specific Multiverse (Its anchored universes)
While there are an infinite amount of trees in the forest (Omniverse)
Despite each tree and it’s branches being slightly or drastically different too eachother, all eventually connect to one another through it’s roots and Branches alike.
An incursion at the scale of Dr Strange m.o.m would be two trees timbering into each other, which could eventually have a cascade effect that leads to trees falling like dominos and the ultimate Death of The Omniverse: Secret Wars
I'm glad somebody gets it lol
Great feedback on the vid. I think our models are pretty much the same, but I can't quite tell if you are advocating for a single big bang creating everything or for each tree trunk to be a separate big bang.
The primary reason that I've landed on multiple big bangs is that Marvel has established that the "Infinity Stones each control an essential aspect of existence" [Wong, Infinity War]. Thus, we need a different reality stone in a universe that has a reality of paint vs. a reality of cubes vs. a reality of live action. So I think each tree trunk formed from it's own big bang and thus it's own unique set of stones. But that's just my take on it.
As for the rift in episode 8, I don't view that as an incursion, per se. It is time healing itself. Two timelines (2018 and 1602) were compressed into the same universe and so ig it's a time incursion, but it's not a standard incursion between two universes. Again, just my take on it.
I really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your feedback on it. Thanks so much!
@@nailinthefashion Thanks! Been working on the model for quite awhile and I think it works really well. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts!
@@AbitofEverything4UOnly the branched universes from one multiversal tree (what if) and the main 616 universe have the same big bang through being all anchored to each other;
different universes like paint and 838 have separate big bangs akin to being on different tree’s (Each tree functions differently to one another, same reason why infinity stones can work across different branched universes but will not work once you cross the threshold into a different multiverse (tree/physics fundamentally function differently as each tree has separate big bangs/in compatible physics to function on alternate-non anchored realities.
As different as each tree is, they all eventually connect to each other through their roots or branches, Intertwining on a omniversersal level,
they can peacefully coexist for a time or rather somewhere interferes, eroding the borders between each multiverse to cause them to Timber/Incursion and destroy one tree or both entirely.
@@AbitofEverything4U you're spot on with other theories as well. All quantum mechanics is just pattern tracking and our best guess, and then this is fictional on top of that so there are no established rules, just the ones we make.
But from what we know, the compression effect the stones go thru makes them compatible with the next universe they fall into because they would be perceived by the inhabitants in a way that makes sense to them while also still being gems lol. It's a bit like Galactus except with cosmic energies
40:40 Funny to hear them say that The Watcher is a fifth-dimensional being when that's also supposed to be the dimension that Superman's enemy Mr. Mxyzptlk is from as well.
Very interesting point...hmmmmmmmm. Hope Gunn and Feige are talking to each other...we might have a crossover in the works!
@@AbitofEverything4UI'll never not ask for a Captain Marvel x Superman team up
@@nailinthefashion ikr? That would be epic!
5th Dimension just implies they exist within our universe, but in a higher plane
Like how we perceive 4 dimensions, But in theory would not notice any other dimensions even if they existed and interacted with ours
@@jesusramirezromo2037 Great explanation!
I really enjoyed Season 2 of what if. The majority of the episodes I found myself loving more than season 1.
I agree...I think season 2 was definitely an improvement over season 1 (not that S1 was bad). It seemed like they really hit their stride with this season for sure!
As loki said in the Avengers, that cage obviously wasn't built for him! And everyone assumed it was for the Hulk. So if not for hulk, then who?
Exactly! Now I really want to know!
I was waiting for this breakdown and now its here!
Thanks so much for watching...really enjoyed this season!
@@AbitofEverything4U You are very welcome! ☺️
@@ethanryan4188
I just want What If movies. They can just take a new idea and add “a What If story” in the end of the title.
Now that would be very cool... yeah, they really turned the dial up several notches with this season. Who knows, maybe a movie could be in the works?
You really know how to explain the MCU Lore, I mean you that really helped me understand the MCU and how it works, mostly because of how the MCU multiverse works and how it connects to the SSU and Across the Spider-Verse. Thank you for everything and I hope you reach 100K subs
That's so kind of you to say. Thanks so much for watching and sharing your thoughts!
I'm 100% sure you put more thought into this than Marvel does 😂 I love it, you actually makes it make some sense, thank you for everything this year, heres for the new one.
Thanks so much for the kind words and positive feedback. 2023 was a fun year. Looking forward to 2024 and wishing you a Happy New Year!
Finally got round to watch what if! Been so busy I haven’t had the chance, obviously came straight to listen to your video after 🤣 thank you as always ❤
That's awesome that you got to watch it. I really enjoyed season 2!
Honestly my favourite MCU breakdown/theory channel, keep doing what you do man! Absolutely love the videos!
That's very kind of you to say. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your positive feedback. And wishing you a Happy New Year!
What if was amazing this season, and with them already giving us a tease for Season 3, I'm hoping that means we'll be getting it sooner rather than waiting another two years. 2024 is looking like a great year for Marvel animation, with Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur Season 2, X-Men '97, and potentially the new Spider-Man and Wakanda series that are rumored to be happening soon, plus Marvel Zombies. And since the live action movies are slowing down a bit, it's nice to have these animated series picking up the slack for Marvel content!
Well said...yeah, I'm really happy for Marvel animation. Looking like it will be a banger of a year for them. Lots to look forward to in 2024. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
The conflicting appearances of Korg in episode 1 and episode 4 to me suggest that while Korg did live on Sakaar at the earliest in 2012, he wasn’t a slave on the planet until he tried to incite a rebellion on Sakaar but didn’t have enough pamphlets which was mentioned in Thor Ragnarok. I think given that the NASCAR race on Sakaar in episode 4 was also participated in by Valkyrie, it wasn’t a totally slave race like the gladiatorial fights in Ragnarok. Although I’m not even sure those were completely slave fights since we see Thor and Korg separated from some of the other fighters before the fight. So presumably Korg and Miek only became slaves after the 2014 invasion of Xandar, going to the planet on vacation and getting stuck there in ep 1 when the planet closes off. This also confirms that if some of the guardians were on the planet, perhaps some of the ones we don’t see were killed before the invasion even happened.
Excellent feedback on the vid. Yeah, the timeline for Korg is confusing, but I think your ideas could indeed work. Nice call! Thx for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U thanks man. Happy new year to you too!
@@spiralyt309
Awesome video. My favorite episodes were episode 2 and episode 6. I loved seeing a young Peter Quill and young Hope van Dyne interacting. Plus the team they assembled looked cool. And Kahorri is such a cool character
Agreed...those two episodes were amazing. Loved seeing Peter and Hope together like that. And I can't wait to see Kahhori appearing in live action (please make it happen Marvel)! Wishing you a Happy New Year!
The real reasons for the branches:
E1 What if Ronan betrayed thanos then he killed The Other
E2 What if Meredith Quil was diagnosed with cancer a year earlier
E3 What if a magazine was left in Justin Hammer’s cell
E4 What if Tony didn’t make it back through the portal
E6 What if Surtur attacked right after the Battle of Jotunheim
E7 What if Odin met Frigga 600 years later
E8 What if Captain America got back up after Thanos killed Vision
Well met! I love it!
@@AbitofEverything4UThanks! As you said the branch point for episode 7 is a bit confusing, I was considering What if Odin met Frigga 600 years later, but I don’t think that works as well
I think your guesses are about as good as we can get. It's fun to try to work it all out.
The work you've been doing in documenting all of this is insane. Great video, can't wait for more!
Thanks so much for the positive feedback...really appreciate it!
Bro, your channel 3 is one of the best on RUclips, even on the last day of the year you post videos, awesome, happy 2024
Thanks so much for the positive feedback. I really appreciate it. And wishing you a Happy New Year as well!
I think that Shield did not knew that Bucky is the WS, in the what if episode they don't say "he truly looks like him", they say "He looks just like him". That for me at least explains that they only realised it here and there, and things with him just snowballed from there.
Excellent point...I like that explanation. Thanks!
Really happy you went with the really long vid with everything in it!
Thx, sir...and I added the What If contest announcement at the end!
If you look at the arrangement of the Hawkeye toys one of them has been taken so I guess Kate Bishop was the only person to buy one
LOL! I love that idea. Nicely done!
Great recap, chief!
I was eagerly waiting for your analysis, specially for the 1602 episode. It couldn't be an incursion! Also, people were diminishing Sacred Timeline Wanda for not being able to open multiversal portals, but they didn't take this being a Branch into account!
Also, something else I noticed to cement that 203 is in December 2014 is that Happy has Sam Wilson's contact in his phone, so definitely after Winter Soldier. And it makes so much sense that the branch origin was related to the Fall of SHIELD.
I originally thought that everything worked fine for 202, with Janet going subatomic in July 1987 and the episode taking place in June 1988, and simply placing Meredith's death/Peter's abduction in very early January 1988, but still it makes no sense now that you've mentioned that Meredith was still in early pregnancy in 1980, Peter was 8 when abducted and Hank didn't resign until 1989...
Well, either way, I think it was a great season! Kinda bummed it seems there won't be a Assembled: Making of What If...? Season 2
Excellent points about 208...glad you also agree it wasn't an incursion. And I totally agree about the the fact that it's a branch being the explanation for why Wanda (and Dr. Strange, for that matter) could move between universes. Well said! I hadn't heard about there not being an assembled for S2. Bummer. But looking forward to S3...this season was fantastic!
Tbh, I don't like the fact that Drax, Groot, Nebula and Korg were on the same planet let alone the same room in season 2 episode 1. Makes the Universe feel small
Yeah, it was fun to see them all together and there were some really funny lines as a result of it, but the logic behind them all being there is questionable to say the least. ig we just have to run with it as the multiverse is full of infinite possibilities. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Remember time works different on Sakarr. In Ragnorok Loki and Thor leave earth at same time but when Thor gets there Loki has already been there for weeks. So it possible Korg stayed in space until 2014 and went through a portal that put him into sakarr before Tony in 2012
Interesting theory! Time is indeed quite wonky on Sakaar!
Love your Idea to show when/where the timelines branched. I didnt knew I needed it, but I do!
Thanks! Yeah, my timeline oriented brain insisted that I do that. lol!
I hadn't thought about 1602 like that now that I've heard it I know realized how Peggy was the only one there after Steve was restored back after she fixed the universe.
It was also really cool to see and learn stuff like Hela's original banishment and T'Chaka's father giving vibranium to make Cap's Shield.
Yeah, I loved the additional lore about the sacred timeline that they gave us. That was really cool!
Hey I've been waiting for you to do a video on what if, i really enjoyed this season and can't wait for the third one. I hope we see Kahhori in live action and i want to see Hela goddess of light to interact with our Thor and Loki god of stories, the 80s avengers episode was one of my favorites and i hope we see more of them. I could like to think in the 80s avengers episode hope was the one to first call them the avengers as a reference to wasp being the one to call them that when they first assembled in the comics also i can see hope joining as wasp when she's older same with peter and speaking of peter i would definitely like to think his future hero costume would be his classic star lord outfit and them finding mantis when they get to ego's planet. I can also see peter going on his own adventure in space meeting some of his guardians friends along the way, Happy New Years.
Great feedback on the vid. I want to see Kahhori in live action, too. That would be amazing. And Hela the goddess of light meeting up with Thor would be very cool as well. I think your idea about Hope being the first to call the 80's team "the Avengers" would be a nice touch. Seeing Hope and Peter together was very cool. So much to love about this season. Can't wait for season 3. And Happy New Year to you as well!
2x1:
Since 2x4 tells us that Korg had already gone to Sakaar by 2012 (unless Sakaar's time dilation threw Tony several years into the future), I wonder if Korg left Sakaar, just happened to be on Xandar in 2014, and then traveled back to Sakaar before 2017, OR if Korg was one of Ronan's Sakaaran warriors that we were told were fighting for Ronan in GotG (maybe Korg and Miek actually met while both working for Ronan).
I think it's also possible that Howard could have been captured by the Collector fairly close to the events of GotG (which could explain him asking the Collector questions like why he lets Cosmo lick him), and therefore the branch doesn't HAVE to be after Ronan got the Power Stone. But I do agree that that's the most likely timing.
2x3:
I don't know that we have to interpret Happy calling Maria "Director" as confirmation that she is the Director of SHIELD in 2x3's universe. That's certainly a possibility, but other possibilities include that she's still the Deputy Director under Fury, and this episode takes place in 2013, and Happy just referred to her as "Director" instead of "Deputy Director" for convenience. (Though of course that wouldn't work unless we place Iron Man 3 in 2012, and it would mean that Tony decided to rebuild the Iron Legion within less than a year after destroying them all... though that's still a problem if this episode takes place in 2014 if we place Iron Man 3 in 2013. Or Maria's job title while working for Stark after she left SHIELD could be Director. It does look like she's wearing a SHIELD uniform, but it would make a lot more sense that she's hanging around Avengers Tower if she's working for Stark than it would if she's running SHIELD.
I do think it's possibly canon that Tony and Bruce began working on trying to cure rage Hulk as early as 2013/2014, and that research simply never came to fruition until Endgame. In which case I suspect Bruce destroyed that blood sample long before Brave New World, just like we saw him doing with the blood samples in She-Hulk.
The EDITH 1.0 thing was interesting to me though because it either implies that Tony was a huge hypocrite during Civil War as he never disclosed the existence of the EDITH satellite despite signing the Sokovia Accords, or, more likely IMO, EDITH 1.0 was a very different program than the one we saw in Far From Home (it also makes me wonder if EDITH 1.0 was still an acronym for "Even Dead I'm the Hero", which means Tony expected to die that early in his hero career, or if Tony changed the acronym closer to the events of Endgame).
2x4:
I saw another comment on another forum questioning the 2x4 branch point because Tony's armor behaves the way it does in Iron Man 3 with him being able to remotely summon it to himself, which, as far as we know, wasn't how it operated in The Avengers. This person even posited that perhaps the reason the portal was able to close before Tony made it back through was because of the different make up of his armor causing him to fall or fly at a different rate.
I also liked that the 2x4 post-credits scene essentially semi-puts to rest the remaining mystery about what happened to the Grandmaster in Ragnarok's post-credits scene. In other words... it doesn't really matter. The people of Sakaar almost definitely couldn't kill him. So he's no longer the ruler of Sakaar (probably), but he's still out there somewhere.
I don't think Sky World was an afterlife. Rewatching the beginning of the episode, it looks like the Tesseract landed on a foreign alien planet, and this is the place that became Sky World. I just have to wonder if the Sky World Space Stone started randomly opening portals throughout the galaxy to itself, or if the Space Stone part of the Tesseract landed on Sky World while another shard of the Tesseract landed on Earth and became the Forbidden Lake, which is what linked the two.
2x6:
As far as I can tell, in reality the Mohawk people encountered the Dutch and the French, but never the Spanish in any conquistador-centric events. So the change in this universe led to Queen Isabella I sending her people to Kahhori's village when she didn't before (unless that's just a fundamental change in the MCU compared to our universe - apparently Queen Isabella was also known to tell her explorers to treat the natives peacefully and leave them alone, so her character is extremely different from how it was in our universe).
Interestingly the Watcher says "in your universe" Odin left the Tesseract in Tonsberg, so he appears to be narrating the events of the show to someone from 616 or another universe that didn't diverge until after the events of Tonsberg.
2x7:
I think it's interesting that Odin was unaware of any items on Earth that could challenge a god, so that's something to look out for; it implies, for example, that the Time Stone and Darkhold either weren't on Earth yet or were also hidden from Odin's knowledge.
2x8:
I agree with you. It would be inconsistent to call the events of this episode an incursion. I also think it would be strange (though I suppose not impossible) for the Time Stone to be pulling people from multiple different universes and throwing them all into the 1602 universe, so that makes me wonder if the Steve from this episode is the same Steve from 2x3's universe (or a universe branching off of the events of 2x3) to explain why Happy is the Freak. Peggy says she believes two universes are stuck together, so that implies that it's characters from one universe that have been thrown into 1602.
2x9:
I thought it was interesting that Strange Supreme was seemingly just capturing "universe killers" or "pure heroes". It has some strange implications like the idea that the Freak is a universe killer or a pure hero... also the idea that Peggy is presumably not a universe killer/pure hero (unless Strange simply decided to spare her because he knows her and decided that he didn't need to sacrifice her for the spell to work).
I also thought it was strange that Peggy was able to hold all six Infinity Stones in her hand with fingerless gloves (after doffing the Infinity Armor) without any of them hurting her. Does that mean the Infinity Ultron Infinity Stones (or at least Power Stone/Mind Stone/Aether since those are the only ones that have been shown to have harmful effects on those exposed to them; we know 616's Soul and Time don't automatically hurt the wielder) don't have the same effect as the 616 stones despite all of What If...? purportedly being branches of 616? Or does armor-less Peggy have some sort of protection that is beyond the level of half-Celestial? Or was she holding the stones in such a way that her hand was only touching the nonharmful stones which had the harmful stones within them?
For that matter, since we're told in 1x9 that "Every universe is different, each one just a fraction unique. Thus the Infinity Stones are unique," how does that work if they're all branches of the same universe? If they're all branches of the same universe then the Infinity Stones that created the main universe are the same stones that created the "What If Ultron Won" branch and the Strange Supreme branch and the Captain Carter branch. Where did the fractional differences come from? Are the What If...? episodes not actually all branches of 616, or does the act of the universe branching somehow change everything on a fundamental level, including the Infinity Stones, that are copied over? Is that how HWR determined what the Sacred Timeline was and what the branches were? It wasn't just the timeline that led to his birth but was also the timeline where there were no fractional changes due to universe branching?
Great feedback! I agree with most of it...just a few thoughts below...
2x1: I'm thinking it must have branched earlier. Perhaps Ronan betrayed Thanos a few years before. And in that case, Groot hadn't met Rocket, Drax wasn't yet in prison, Korg hadn't left for Sakaar, and Howard wasn't yet caught by the collector.
2x4: I thought Tony's armor did come to him in Avengers. He was thrown out the window by Loki and it chased after him. But if it didn't work quite the same, then ig the branch must have occurred earlier and the armor was different in the branch?
2x9: I wonder if perhaps Kahhori made a shield around the stones using her space stone powers so that Peggy wasn't directly touching the stones? Otherwise, it should have atomized Peggy's hand.
2x9: So, let me start by saying I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate the infinity stone crusher. However, it exists, so we need to deal with it. My guess is that when a universe branches, it creates stones that are "a fraction unique" by virtue of the branching. The changes are so minor that the stones from one branch universe can work in another branch universe. However, the crusher doesn't function due to that small uniqueness. Oh, did I mention that I HATE the infinity stone crusher?
Wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U 2x1: Man, I wish they would give us What If episodes where the branching points are actually where they say they are! These oddities and inconsistencies that can only easily be explained away by earlier branching points are annoying! Lol
2x4: Hmm, I'd have to double-check that. I thought the commenter I read was correct about that becoming a thing in Iron Man 3, but you could be right.
2x9: Yeah, maybe that would work. We'd still have to hand-wave that Space Stone powers can allow you to allow someone else to use the Infinity Stones without actually touching them, which isn't thoroughly satisfying to me, but it's comic book logic, and they've certainly done crazier things in the comics (not sure offhand if they've done crazier in the movies/shows yet), so I could live with it. And yes, the Infinity Crusher is such a headache! And it didn't even play a part in 2x4 to really justify its inclusion in 1x9 other than as a brief red herring! Overall I quite liked both finales, but man do they make continuity difficult sometimes...
Hope you're having a Happy New Year as well!
Beautifully said...let the record show we are starting off 2024 in agreement. I sense it will be a good year!
But seriously, love all your excellent feedback. You always provide amazing insight!
While i was watching the episodes, I already was looking forward to your video about 'em.😍
Thanks so much! That's so nice of you to say! 😊
Very detailed description of the what if multiversal timeline.
Thanks! Had alot of fun putting it together. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Love it! You touched upon the aspect of What If that interests me the most, which is all the things that the show has revealed about the MCU sacred timeline! My favorite would have to be how the SSR acquired the vibranium from Wakanda to make Cap's shield. And along with that, the fact that SHIELD knew that Wakanda was technologically advanced.
I didn't know about that explanation of how Captain Carter's timeline led to Hope becoming the Wasp and joining the Avengers earlier! I was totally wondering about that! (My initial guess was that it was Janet still as the Wasp, that she didn't get stuck in the Quantum Realm in that timeline.) The real explanation about women being inspired by Captain Carter is really cool.
Yeah, I really love learning lore about the main timeline, which normally only happens via flashbacks in the movies and shows. But What If provides lots of fun little facts in each episode. And I agree, the backstory that A.C. Bradley provided for Captain Carter's timeline was pretty cool!
My theory for episode 8 which can explain Happy Hogan being the freak is that the universe cap is from is the same universe as the christmas universe from episode 3 which is where happy becomes the freak since the watcher doesn't truly narrate over the change in the timeline but rather he talks about how captain carter isnt supposed to be here. I also think that the 1602 we see isnt a different universe or timeline but rather just an earlier point in time linked to that future in that timeline since the time stone would have time connecting powers not multiverse connecting powers so it connects points in time.
Yes and Yes. I 100% agree on both. I think that makes alot of sense for the Freak and I was actually trying to say what you said so well regarding to timelines being compressed in one universe. Thanks for summing it up so well. It's sorta like what the Ancient One did in the first season by splitting Strange into two timelines and then putting them together in the same universe.
@@AbitofEverything4UIf that's the case, then episode 8's branching point is not in 2018, but Christmas 2014
In the 1602 comics, Steve is sent to the past, 1602. Now, his presence there created* characters who aren't supposed to be there yet. This could be the same case for this episode. Perhaps 1602 Happy is not pulled by the time Stone, but he is actually an original 1602 character created by Steve's presence there
@yudhazacharias9377 Right...if Steve's universe in Ep 8 is the same as the Freak's from Ep 3, then the branch did indeed start in 2014 and Ep 8 is a continuation from Ep 3. Will be interesting to see how the timeline book shows that the branching occurred.
@@AbitofEverything4U so how come it pulled Loki and Hela who are supposed to be dead when Thanos invade? Listen, everyone else in 1602 behave as if that is their world, not from the future. Let's just go like the comics here. Steve being there created this new 1602 Loki
As Why Carter Can Hear And See The Watcher I Think It’s Probably Just An Exposure Thing Where Once You See Or Hear Him Once You Can Do It Again And The More Time Your Exposed To Him The Better You Can See Or Hear Him.
Excellent point...yeah, that's a good explanation. Thanks! And wishing you a Happy New Year!
After what if the dialogue of reed Richard's make sense"the greatest threat to the multiverse is dr strange "
I mean we seen in MOM a evil variant who caused Incursions in multiple realities
Great point! Yup, Dr. Strange just can't help but cause multiversal issues...lol!
What if Thor's mom "charmed" Odin? Remember she is a "witch".
Niiiice! That's a good theory!
6:08 They should probably change that to New York 1989.
Also 26:50 This was around the time Rodrigo Alphonso Gonzalo searched for the Fountain of Youth!
Excellent feedback. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. And wishing you a Happy New Year!
Been waiting for this video since the season started. Happy new year!
Thanks so much for watching...really appreciate it. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
I'm a little confused about Sky World. I know it's the afterlife in IRL Mohawk belief systems, but the episode doesn't really portray that because the souls of their dead people on Earth don't go there. Kahhori and the Sky People were all teleported there physically. Which makes me think it's just a distant planet in normal spacetime and not a separate spiritual plane like Valhalla or the Ancestral Plane. Seems like a weird choice not to have it be the actual Mohawk afterlife in the MCU but perhaps that was intentional.
But what makes the choice weird? Just cuz Valhalla is their literal heaven? It's still just a realm so maybe the lines are blurred
Yeah, it's definitely a unique take on the afterlife, but I thought it was a bold swing to go that direction. Will be interesting to see what they do with Sky World in the future, assuming we see Kahhori again.
@@nailinthefashion I agree...it was a unique take on the afterlife and a very creative way to explain it. I'm hoping Kahhori appears again and maybe we'll learn more about the lore of Sky World.
For now one can say that Hammer wearing the Hulkbuster is the closest he gets to his Lego variant as Detroit Steel😂. Love Justin Hammer too.
Also happy New Year
I love Detroit Steel...er, I mean Justin Hammer. Dude rocks! Wishing you a Happy New Year as well!
Such a great video, I think that the point about the timeline branching and being slightly different prior to the actual ‘What if?’ Moment is true. It seems logical and is an easy hand wave if they want to do anything out of the ordinary without breaking the timeline. I kinda wish they would’ve thought about that prior to stating in the first season how important those big moments were but it is what it is
Great feedback...yeah, I do wish they were a bit more careful with the timelines, but I'm also happy with the stories themselves, so as you said, we may just need to do a bit of hand waving to get around the loose timeline management. Thx so much for watching the video. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Great video. I needed that!
One thing though,
34:06 - 1600s and 2000s being "compressed" doesn't sound like separate branches. It sounds like either a 400 yr section of a single timeline-branch got squeezed together into one moment, or more likely one moment from 1600s and one moment from 2000s, both from a single timeline-branch were somehow joined in that way. And if they can't undo that anomaly, the whole 'universe' (timeline-branch) will fall apart. I presume that's why once the anomaly was fixed, everyone disappeared (the branch being restored).
Actually, you said what I was trying to say...only you said it alot better...lol! Yeah, I didn't mean to imply two separate branches were compressed but rather two points in time in the same branch were compressed. Thanks for stating it so well. And wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U Or maybe I was wrong after all. Maybe the timeline split when Steve missed the hit, then the damaged time stone in that new split off branch thrown that moment into the common past of two branches? I don't know anymore!
Anyway, all the best in 2024 for you and yours!
Yeah, it was indeed a confusing concept, but it at least gave us a really cool episode in the end. Fun stuff!
To me for how Peggy could hear The Watcher is you eather have to be full/part celestial like Star Lord at the end of season 1 or met/interacted with him before hand or like in Doctor Strange Supreme's case absorbing all these magical demons/monsters.
Yeah, I do suspect that having met him several times has allowed her to pick up his narration. Good suggestion!
I think the further displaced you are from your original universe the easier it is to hear him
@@nailinthefashion Interesting theory...I'd love for Marvel to dive into this abit more.
Wow, Hulk Hogan was more effective than Bruce's Hulk
lol...yeah, Hulk Hogan was surprisingly effective as a Hulk!
Man it's so nice to have another video by you, it feels like it's been forever. You could say it's been a year ba dum tiss. I hope you had some happy holidays and a happy start to this new year. Sorry for the essay, I know I always do them but man there's just always so much I love to give my thoughts on.
For episode 1, I simply think that everything we see with things like Yondus history with nebula are all after the branch. Because it doesn't really make sense for nebula to get involved with the ravagers in any way when she's constantly training and fighting for her life with Gamora and Thanos. Same applies to groot, Drax, korg and meek and Howard the duck. While it is a little dark with all the ruckus that this new Ronin caused I do think it's possible that Rocket died at some point and thats why he's not there with groot.
For episode 2, I do think your probably right with the branch starting a year earlier and perhaps Yondu didn't have as much heart then, thats why he ultimately gave quill up. But for Hank, for one I don't like the idea that he just happens to quit a year earlier, it just seems kinda arbitrary and unrelated to the branch, so my personal headcanon is that Hank just quits several times. Hank has always had a very touchy relationship in the comics both with shield and teams in general so I totally think he's the type who could leave and come back and leave again. That just seems perfect for him. And while I'm totally down for an ancient wakanda or at least the history of wakanda series, isnt our current knowledge that it's going to be an okoye based origin story? I don't think it would touch on any of this info if thats the case, though maybe we could get some tidbits from tchaka.
For Episode 3, considering that Hill was director, yea the branch must've been a while back and we dont really know where. Though I do believe that Happy mentioned that Tony had been working on that hulk blood serum for a while so I do think it was intended for that to be on the sacred timeline. Totally think EDITH was made a while ago too which seems kinda odd but knowing Tony and him always improving on things this makes sense. Happy being the freak is awesome, nice catch I didn't notice that. And I did notice that Darcy easter egg, but not the subtitles, thats hilarious.
For episode 4, yea I really liked that while this episode gave us a ton of humor with the grandmaster, that I honestly wasn't much of a fan of, they did give him some more depth with knowing more then he lets on. As for korg, him being on Xandar could be due to that branch, perhaps ronin went after the grandmaster and collector since they're super powerful and may try to take the stone (if he has it) before going to Xandar and thats how korg ended up on Xandar in episode 1 and how he's still on Sakaar on episode 4.
For episode 5, I definitely loved that the wasp and more females were there that makes so much sense, though I did see someone on reddit say she's gotta be wrong on the forming of shield because hank and Janet were like 9, I haven't had the time to fact check this myself but they do seem quite a bit younger then Howard so idk how that works unless shield was formed way later. And man between the chronology and the widow writing I really dont think this was thought out super well. I still enjoyed it in fact this episode was such a cool redo of winter soldier with Peggy but I dont feel like it was intentional to write widow as a jerk, and get the whole supposedly hank and Janet helped form shield as kids if thats true. I give praise where its due but I also gotta criticize when its due too, so think things through better next time lol. Also yea Hawkeye being a dad must be common knowledge in other universes, again maybe they didn't think this entirely through, though this is really nitpicking and doesn't matter whereas I feel like widows lines do matter quite a bit.
For the watchers realm man this is the perfect thing for a book marvel, give us a what if book or even better kill two birds with one stone and make a realms dimensions and realities book and explain this as well as how the quantum realm works too. Plus more details about things like the mirror dimension and others work. Please marvel!
For episode 6, man I always love making canon more beliefs, afterlifes gods etc. While Thor love and thunder did a lot wrong I really liked that part of it, and as a christian I really loved the god of carpentry joke, that was awesome. But also things like moon knight gave us an afterlife and gods too. I'm always down for more. Kahori was really awesome and an amazing episode, honestly might be my favorite episode, it was very well done.
For episode 7, yeahhhh they really didn't think that one through, I didn't even notice that. Love you marvel, and I really really loved this season but you gotta do better with continuity, you literally just released this book, people are bound to keep track of a book they just read and go wait didn't wenwu come after?
Anyway back to the episode proper, 100% agree I really want to know more about the 10 rings origin. Also this episode probably more than any other doesn't fit with its title, what if hela got the ten rings? she never did, cmon marvel its right there and you've used similar things before just say what if hela was redeemed or something similar. I always felt that heimdall could only see the physical 9 realms not any other dimensions or anything like that, so not seeing ta lo (hope I spelled that right) makes sense.
For episode 8, thank you so much for explaining the branch here, I must've missed that line from Peggy somehow and while I saw the ending I was so confused as to how this works, your explanation makes it make a lot more sense. However I do still feel its a bit of an out there explanation to just try to give us a standard marvel comics what if, that doesn't have to be based on the main marvel universe at all. The appearance of the freak made me question maybe this episode is a subtle sequel to episode 3, I mean how else did happy become the freak after the branch in 2018 but before the universe gets these two timelines collapsed? it just dissent work imo. I do think most of this can be chalked up to the time stone being a cornerstone of reality, but the freak? idk that would be as weird as having sakarrian iron man show up.
For episode 9, I do think what if is important, but I dont know if its only due to the opening. I mean I am Groot got a custom opening as did werewolf by night and we haven't seen any references about them yet, in fact we've had a noticeable lack of references to them, though that could be due to the timelines of both of them. Either way for me personally as an avid avengers campus enjoyer, with the new King Thanos ride, whenever that comes out, what if is already important, But I do think that what if is absolutely going to connect back to the main mcu proper. I mean we did get captain Carter on 838, while not the same one, I dont think it's a coincidence. Maybe oatu or captain carter will connect during secret wars. Strange being a 5th dimensional being was really cool, doesn't that put him on the same level as the watcher? I thought the watcher was said to be a 5th dimensional being somewhere but I could be misremembering. While a great episode I was really bummed to see strange supreme get so little screen time and supposedly die. I still hope he comes back but he's probably done. he's one of the few characters along with Loki from his show and maybe captain Carter where I really prefer the alternate version to the main one. Honestly I wanted to see him win for the lore ramifications. I mean at this point he was probably strongest character we've ever seen in the mcu, easily going up against the infinity stones like it's nothing and only being beaten because it was a 2v1 ultimately. Of course this isnt counting characters we've only barely seen like the one above all or eternity and maybe oatu is stronger but considering his fight with infinity ultron I kinda doubt it.
and man that secret wars theory is something else, I hope thats true, I really want it to be but I kinda doubt it. we'll have to see.
But man this season was so so good, better than season 1 for sure (I rewatched it right before this) but while it has more good, it also has more bad. Continuity was rough in this season. You can make it all work but it's not easy, and even the creator got some things wrong because they didn't bother to fact check. You gotta do that and you gotta make sure these episodes make sense, episode 8 for me was very hard to follow. I like them going kinda off the rails to give us some more stuff but it's gotta work and this was dangerously close to not working. And it seems like season 3 is coming really soon maybe this year since we already got a teaser for it? what?!?!? thats awesome. I'm absolutely looking forward to more and I hope they can keep on giving me the hugely op villains at the end I really love that.
And can you believe it echo comes out in like a week! fun time for the mcu, they're definitely giving us a ton of stuff for the turn of the new year. barely a week between projects is the type of marvel timing I love, and I really liked about the start of the Disney plus era. Hopefully quality keeps up but I think it will.
Wow...fantastic feedback as always. I stopped what I was doing to read it all. I think you were spot on with your analysis. Regarding Dr. Strange being a 5th dimensional being, my apologies if I said that, as I was meaning to say Strange was referring to the Watcher as a 5-D being. But yeah, excellent feedback. And I agree, as a fellow Christian, I think the afterlife stuff is really cool. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U really appreciate you taking the time to read it all, I sometimes feel like I get a little in over my head and talk a bit too much about this stuff but I find it so interesting and really love the mcu so it’s nice that you take the time to read it thank you. And good clarification on strange, that does make sense and maybe I misheard but I do also think strange supreme is incredibly powerful being able to easily go against all the infinity stones at once.
Oh, I'm totally with you on diving deep into this stuff and going to insane levels of analysis. It's definitely part of what makes the MCU so much fun. And yeah, Strange Supreme is crazy powerful. Such a great character. Shame to lose him this season, but it was a fitting end to his story, I felt.
Happy new year! You are one of my favorite creators, I couldn't go a whole year without wishing you a happy one😁
I had a rough last year, so im really gonna work hard this year for the things I want for myself
Oh my...I'm so sorry to hear that 2023 was a bad year for you. I agree...you should work hard for the things you want for yourself and I'm hoping 2024 is much better for you. I really appreciate your kind words about the channel as well. Onwards and upwards in the New Year!
Proud to make this my first RUclips video of the new year 😎
Oh wow...how cool! Thanks so much for watching as the new year begins!
Once again, much appreciation to you for the efforts of making this multiverse stuff make sense. I really want Marvel to make some sort of official statement, or a book, or even an in-canon comic, just to get it out there.
I'm 50/50 on Yondu and "Nebby" being a canon thing. It's possible, and it would be funny...but I just have a hard time imagining Nebula being friends with anyone while with the Black Order.
One of my biggest disappoints of The Marvels was no Yon-Rogg. Even if their rivalry was just played for laughs in the sequel, I still want more of him and Carol interacting!
I'm glad you also noticed the weird timeline discrepancies of the Ego episode. Makes me wonder if them saying 1988 was just a mistake. Otherwise we have to think Peter was born a year earlier, or Meredith died a year earlier, neither of which I really like.
Also, just to note, the Hulk Cage Loki got put in IS different than the one Peter gets put in. You can tell because this one has arms facing down, while the Hulk cage has the arms going upward. So Peter's is likely a 1.0, and Hulk's is a 2.0.
22:57 - This was so funny, thank you. XD
Great feedback on the vid. I 100% agree...I would loooove for Marvel to give us a "book of the multiverse"...maybe OB can author it!
I agree with all your comments regarding Yon-Rogg, Ego's episode, and the Hulk Cage 1.0. And yeah, that Widow situation was indeed abit comical. I just couldn't resist.
Wishing you a Happy New Year!
42:10 This white hole might be Supreme Strange’s universe being recreated. Though that would be a bit confusing since it’s an alternate timeline not an entire universe, but who knows?
Yeah, I suspect that was indeed the new universe being created. Great suggestion!
I think Marvel needs to hire you to streamline their timelines, cause man you have it on lock. Good job.
Thanks for the positive feedback on the vid...yeah, would be a dream job to work for Marvel. But making vids about the timeline is the next best thing. Really appreciate you watching and sharing your thoughts...and wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U Happy New Year to you too and may 2024 bring more success to your channel, even though there isn't that much Marvel content coming out this year.
Thanks...really appreciate those well wishes!
Great Analysis once again. The way you are able to connect everything makes one of the best MCU youtubers out there. Keep up the great work in 2024.
Thanks so much...that's so nice of you to say. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
25:10 THANK YOU!!! I honestly could care less about the variant shenanigans at this point I just want to know more about the lore of the multiverse! I sense it coming soon though…. I hope
I agree...I'm really hoping What If season 3 gives us alot more backstory on the Watcher. That would be awesome!
Great video.
Episode 1: I don't think Ronan had the power stone otherwise I'm not sure how he wouldn't be able to defeat the planet protection eventually, even if he needed to bring a more strong weapon to power with the stone.
Was cool to see Yon-Rogg again, at least we have an idea of why he wasn't in the Marvels.
Episode 2: Cool to see the way the managed to connect all characters from the Earth ones to the alien ones like Thor or Mar-Vell (but I think Lawson gave up the info of the Kree easily).
About them knowing about Wakanda in the past, I think it's just that they always retcon whaat things were known in the past based on what we already know from the future. In phase 1 it didn't seem like characters knew about Infiity Stones, but in Cap Carter episode there was a book that mention the "space stone" instead of the Tesseract I believe, also Loki in S1 ep 1 knew about the inifinity stones while in theAvengers movie I don't think he ever brought that term at any point.
SHIELD being SHIELD in the past, etc...
They clearly throw that kind of info because we as an audience already know about it, even if the characters shouldn't know.
At least here we could say it was SHIELD who knew.
Also I liked that they show Howard being part of Proyect Pegasus so that shows how Lawson makes contact with the Tesseract in 616.
Episode 3: It was funny, i liked that they brought Hammer back, the main problem with the main MCU is that they kill most of her villains, but at least here you can see them doing other things.
Episode 4: I liked the episode, it was a really funny one, but it was clearly not the one that was scrapped from S1, they didn't explain what was that machine Gamora used in the last episode, they focus only on Grandmaster and not Thanos, I thougth Tony and gamora vs Thanos would be a different episode, not just a last minute scene.
Episode 5: Liked how they combined the Winter Soldier plot with the Black Widow lore, I don't think Hydra would save Steve if they were the ones behind Hydra Stomper, they would probably train a new pilot and that's it, but we know less about the Red Room so maybe they would have him in their control.
Episode 6: I won't deny it, didn't like that Kahori was just more powerful than everyone that come before her just because she is the main character I guess. I know she left when spanish soldiers were invading so she had the urgency to leave, but maybe they could manage the whole powers thing differently.
Episode 7: An interesting Crossover, i was expecting it and I didn't feel disappointed. It was cool to see the Shang Chi cast again, but I'm still waiting for Shang Chi himself.
Episode 8: I liked it, I only have 2 problems with it:
1° The trailers spoil you Steve is the one who caused the problem.
2° I honestly didn't get why Cap. Carter was the one destined to save 1602, if it's because she wouldn't give up and will try to help strangers, that also goes for other heroes...
Episode 9: Not sure how Kahori knew Strange plans.
And I'm not sure of what to think about Strange motivations and the fact that the Watcher suggested he succeded by erasing himself...
Wasn't Strange's whole plan to bring back his Christine Palmer, the one that knows him and loves him? The Chrisitine at the end was born in a universe without him so she never met him, never fell in love with him, it's technically a different Christine, so I don't know what he tried to achieve...
Wow...very insightful feedback. I enjoyed reading it all and you said alot of the things I was thinking as well. I definitely enjoy the What If episodes, but they sometimes play a little loose with the timeline and the plot. But they are still alot of fun none-the-less. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on all the episodes!
so far i definitely played a chunk of spider man 2 game
Niiiice...that game is pretty epic. And the Wolverine game looks awesome as well!
The green rifts remind me of the rift in loki season 2 finale, love the videos thank you!
Good point about the rift being similar to Loki S2. Excellent feedback. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U you aswell!
@@Djamcar
Hey anybody got the reference "The monster in the iron mask"
It was for a few seconds i thought it is him it is him🤩 then peggy called him bruce i was like oh it's him 🫤
Ikr? I felt the same...I was like "is that Leonardo DiCaprio under there?"
@@AbitofEverything4U oh yeah
@@sidharthabhimanyu..
Now that we got the confirmation of the Daredevil Netflix show being cannon. Can we please get a timeline with the defenders shows included!
Yeah, that may well be a good timeline vid to make soon. I'm still so surprised they put out the timeline book w/o those shows in it, and right after its release, they changed their mind. So I may wait abit and see how things pan out with Echo, but it is pretty exciting. The Netflix shows were fantastic and there's never been a good reason for them not to be canon.
@@AbitofEverything4U I saw this on twitter but honesty makes sense, The original plan for the original Daredevil born again show was to keep it seperate to just the MCU. But once the show had to be rewritten and saw the reception of people wanting the Netflix show cannon. They then changed there mind for the fans. Just a thought, but makes sense why it wasn’t in the timeline book.
I like that explanation. I could imagine that being what happened.
I think the image in 42:11 is the Big Bang after the forge created a Universe.
I think the forge actually created a whole new universe that is outside of 616. Which explains why the watcher sends Peggy back to the 616 Yggdrassil because Peggy was literally outside of 616.
Also do note that a new branched universe is created from alternate decisions. In this new forged universe, it wasn't from any decision but merely a "creation". Hence the big bang & origin universe.
Oh wow...now that's a cool idea. I like that alot!
Really enjoyed this season and as I said a few months back I've updated the Watchers MCU wiki page that was really fun.
I had previously learned about Happy being the Freak in the comics early last year but thought it would be something they wouldn't have adapted so I was shocked by episode 3.
I think my favorite episodes for this season was either two or three.
So glad you're working on the wiki. The wiki freakin' rocks! And I agree, ep 2 and ep 3 are both great!
I had a lot of fun with with season.
Even if the series presents some inconsistencies with the actual MCU "Sacred Timeline", I think they still did their best to follow the basic logic "These reality branch out off 616", at the point that a unique reality like 1602 is clarified as an unstable altered world created by accident. I'm glad they didn't complicate things like in S1 with the "absolute point" in Ep 4, character like Wanda-Merlin and Doctor Strange Supreme traveling or transporting character from different realities is consistent with what we saw so far with Endgame and Loki.
I would have prefered if Uatu used a more generalized term like 'reality', or even 'branches', instead of 'universes', but I guess they chose to not change the wording because of S1.
Regarding what The Watcher and Carter are looking at after he saved her (42:04), I read on Twitter someone theorizing it's the 616 Universe, and that on the left side, we can see grimples of other two parallel universes on the prysmic wall, always with the "black-hole" kind of design.
Excellent feedback on the season. I'm very excited to see what we get in season 3. As for what the Watcher and Carter are looking at, I've seen a lot of suggestions that it's the creation of the new universe by Strange Supreme after he fell in the forge. I like that idea as it does transition right into that new universe with Christine in it. Love that that tie the show in with Loki. Sooooo cool!
I like how well thought out Peggy's timeline is, the ripple effect was crazy having wasp on the avengers
I agree...that was so cool how well they fleshed out her world. Loved it!
Ima keep this on repeat for 10 hours
LOL! Thanks for watching...and watching...and watching...and watching! Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Thank you for actually understanding the 8th episode. I've been having to explain this to soooo many people, and none of them are taking me seriously(the Wanda stans lol)
Yeah, that 8th episode was a trickly one, but it was very clever once you understand it. Keep spouting truths to your friends...they'll come around eventually! lol!
I loved What If Season 2
ikr? It was so good. I can't wait for Season 3!
@@AbitofEverything4U Same
@@augustchristiansen1988
Been waiting for this! Funnily, this season of what if may or may not have played some inspiration to my What If pitch but I'm hoping you'll enjoy what I have. That being said I never considered the Yon-Ragg implications. Didn't realize the Wakanda series would dive into the history though. I did not clock the fact in that universe SHIELD did not fall. I also did not catch the Watcher repairing his realm ... you always find these neat details. The Kahhori episode was ... really fun. I loved the Hela episode that was so good. I do wonder if the Hela episode actually takes place later in the timeline than you might think given Odin's personality traits in the episode. I really loved the 1602 episode so so much. Ultimately I think the finale is my favourite episode between the opening, Captain Carter, Strange Supreme's ending and of course that Loki tree. Also happy new year!
Excellent feedback. Yeah, the Hela episode is the trickiest one regarding timing. The timeline book puts her banishment well before Wenwu found the rings, but I do have to wonder if she was actually banished after Thor was born but while he was still a child. Maybe they will move that around in the next timeline book. And yeah, the Kahhori episode was great and the finale was insanity. And Happy New Year to you as well!
Yeah, You are back.
Happy New Year 2024 Whatever name you are 🙏 🎉 Take care yourself and keep doing it for us. Thank you 🤜
Yeah, really sorry for the dry spell between vids. It was great to get one more in for 2023. Really appreciate you watching and wishing you a Happy New Year as well!
@@AbitofEverything4U ✌️✌️ You're welcome.
@@MarvelStationTH
The show was really good. Still have hope MCU will bounce back to good ol' days
I agree...that What If season was a very positive step forward for the MCU. Really enjoyed this season alot. Looking forward to a great 2024. Speaking of...wishing you a Happy New Year!
@@AbitofEverything4U You too, mate. Happy New Year 🎊🎊🎊
Thanks so much!
You do such a good job with these breakdowns.
Thanks so much...I really appreciate that!
Additional comment about episode 8
Hela says that Odin banished her around the time he decided to have Thor. In this episode, she even mentions that Frigga is Odin's new girlfriend. So I am guessing Hela's imprisonment happened around 960 AD, not long before Thor and Loki's birth. Also, we don't know when Wenwu found the Ten Rings, just that it happened ~1000 yeara before the 21st century. So it could have well been 1100. The timeline book is vague in purpose. I think of it as a new piece of lore which will make the timeline book authors re-evaluate the order of events for the second volume.
Excellent feedback. I agree with all of that. It would be nice if the timeline book moved WenWu finding the rings prior to Hela's banishment. Nice call!
16:07 so i think the reason tony didn't fall though the portal is because in the sacred timeline he used his suit parts to accelerate his fall but in the episode he didn't do it. (I sent a video on the theories channel on discord a while back if you're interested)
Very cool theory...I like that alot!
31:34 i always assumed that of thor's siblings were half siblings. cause In Ragnarok, we never ever seen Frigga at all during flashbacks
Excellent point! Yeah, I think it was definitely a very valid assumption for sure...and now they have confirmed it. Such a fun season!
Really liked that season. My favourite episode was probably Nebula's one (pls more Nova, Disney), but Kahhori was great too, just because it was different (plus, I instantly recognized her: Queen Isabella of Spain was voiced by Carolina Ravassa, which makes her the 3rd Overwatch Voice Actor in Marvel, as far as I know (the 6th, I think, if you count Star Wars as well))
I loved the Nebula episode as well. Probably my favorite. And I liked Kahhori, too. Interesting tidbit about Carolina Ravassa. Thanks for sharing that. Wishing you a Happy New Year!
You know come to think of it, Kang has already invented tech to summon ppl or multiple ppl like we saw in the ant man 3 end credits. I also feel like the watcher showing that trees ties the series and her with both comic accurate info. There’s the multiveral captain britan corps which can play a role down the line as well. It sounds like we are definitely seeing connections and more ways like you said this series will be important and helpful for setting up different lands and different spaces. The 1602 episode showed ways they could break up different areas and battle world. this will all connect in what we see down the line towards secret wars.
Excellent point about the 1602 episode perhaps showing how battle world may be laid out. Love that! Really appreciate you watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. And wishing you a Happy New Year!
You already know I'm ready for this video, I love what if I'm so ready for more
Yeah, I loved this season...can't wait for season 3!
@@AbitofEverything4U dude me too when season one came out I swear I watched each episode like five times waiting for the next week and then this I couldn't even stay caught up with breakdowns and everything but it was amazing it was probably better than season 1 honestly
I agree...I think they improved over season 1 and I thought season 1 was good to begin with. Really impressed with this series!
Possibility, the Spanish queen shown in the Kahhori episode was Isabella's daughter called Juana the Mad, note, woman born into powerful families would be declared insane so their families could control their power and wealth.
Interesting theory! I'd be down for that!
Man imagine a what if season set in the paint universe or the cube universe would be wild
Be still my heart...I would SO love a What If season in those wild universes. Please Marvel, give us What If paint episodes!
Do u think that maybe the Happy Hogan saved Christmas & 1602 universe r one in the same? Due to the Freak’s appearance?
You do have to wonder...I mean it would certainly explain why Freak showed up in that episode. Really loved 1602...that episode was insanity!
@@AbitofEverything4U indeed, would be rlly cool if we got a spin off or just another look into it, like where was Spidey & Strange?
Right! So much potential for that storyline!
Also I sort of think of it as the tiniest change can make a difference; which is why things aren’t always consistent time wise. Like it might not have massively changed enough to cause a ‘what if’ but someone could have just got up an hour earlier one day which lead them to meet someone sooner or something. Does that make sense
I agree...that makes alot of sense. Great way of explaining it!
I think the Kahhori episode might be my favorite of the entire series
It was a really good episode...beautifully executed from beginning to end!
@@AbitofEverything4UReally hope she shows up in live action
Ditto!
kinda bummed What If is ending in Season 3, there are so many potential stories that they could do, it could go on forever. I really enjoyed this season, I wish we got more Marvel animation!
I agree...this season really blew me away. I'd love to have even more seasons beyond S3. Hope this season performed really well and it encourages them to make more! And wishing you a Happy New Year!
It's ending in season 3????? There's so much potential, that sucks
Where are y'all getting that it'll be the last season when mutants will barely have been on the board?
Right now it's just rumored to end in Season 3 but it hasn't officially been confirmed by Marvel studios or the big Media trades.
@@iraford5788Yeah, i've heard that rumor as well. I do wonder, however, after this season did so well if they may continue to extended it beyond season 3. We'll have to wait and see!
Last episode was rly good! I love the messy battlefield, and i hope we can have something similar and better for secret wars
I agree...that finale prepped us for what we may be seeing in Secret Wars with pure insanity happening on the battlefield. I'm so excited for the possibilities!
Howard's classic!!
Howard rocks!
Heyo! Been a while... Anyways, great video as always, I really enjoyed this season of What If...? and I liked the release strategy a lot, it was like opening a new Christmas present every day.
Regarding Korg being in Sakaar in 2012 but in Xandar in 2014, sometimes a fun explanation might just be the right one. I think Korg simply traveled a lot back then, or maybe he lived in Sakaar in 2012 but was on holiday in Xandar in 2014. Either way, I think there are plenty of ways to explain the slight inconsistencies between mainline 616 and these branches (except for that "Wenwu being born 600 years earlier" one, yikes).
I loved A.C. Bradley's explanation for why Wasp was in the main Avengers team back in 2012, it's really well thought out. I'm just wondering if there was any reason why Hulk wasn't in the team. Maybe it was like the comics, where they thought of Hulk as being too unstable? There are a lot of ways it could go.
One thing to note is that in the present day of the 1602 episode (2018), Hela and Loki could've been alive by 2018. Maybe the branch happened earlier. I don't think we ever get an explicit confirmation by the Watcher that the cause of the branch was Cap hitting the time stone. Maybe in that branch, Hela even became an ally to the Avengers, instead of a villain, which would explain why she and Thor got along during that part of the episode. He even called her his queen, and grieved when she was taken by the portal.
It's good to see reinforced that 616 branches are way different than complete universes by Wanda in the 1602 episode, really clears some of the plot holes regarding infinity stones from season 1.
I love the idea of episode 9 teasing Secret Wars, it truly introduced so many concepts, and the amount of villain cameos from that episode was epic. In fact, there's a theory that the Hela and Surtur from episode 9 aren't actually from branches, but instead, regular 616. It basically says that the green light that came from Hela in Ragnarok could've been Strange grabbing her and Surtur from a point where they both were in the same place and could grab two at once. It also explains the reaction Hela and Surtur had when they saw each other (the "YOU!"), which would make sense considering they pretty much died because of one another.
One thing I did notice this season was that the ending of episodes made some of the universes actually better than 616. Examples being:
•The Avengers being formed in the 80s, meaning that they're much better prepared from the beginning and the team is allowed to grow even further as more super-people start showing up (plus, the Winter Soldier didn't continue being a weapon, therefore Howard doesn't die in 1991).
•Iron Man and Gamora killing Thanos back in 2012, which means that Age of Ultron doesn't happen (Tony doesn't have alien PTSD and therefore doesn't want to wrap the world in a suit of armor), and Infinity War doesn't happen because there is no Thanos.
•HYDRA not being able to continue growing after the 40s thanks to Bucky and Cap, which means that S.H.I.E.L.D. doesn't get infiltrated.
•Kahhori's universe achieving world peace back in the 1500s, which implies a period of prosperity and possibly no conflict or slavery.
•Hela and Wenwu forming an alliance ages ago, becoming protectors of the universe and destroying intergalactic threats like Thanos.
In fact, I don't think any episodes this season ended with tragedies, which was in sharp contrast to season 1 where: Ego attacked Earth and likely succeeded, most of the Avengers were killed by Hank Pym, Doctor Strange lost his entire reality, zombies overtook the planet, Killmonger killed Iron Man, War Machine AND T'Challa; and Ultron became a multiverse destroyer. Yeah, quite the contrast.
Finally, interestingly enough, they dropped a teaser for What If...? season 3 even BEFORE season 2 had finished, with Bucky and Red Guardian back in the 80s, which I find strange but intriguing. Does that mean we're getting season 3 sooner than we thought? Or is it another "Iron Man on Sakaar'' situation, where this one was meant to be part of season 2 but they couldn't finish it?
Either way, the breakdown was great, hope you've had a nice Christmas and New Year, keep up the amazing work!
Wow...amazing commentary. I have nothing to add, as you were spot-on in everything you said. As for that S3 trailer, I do need to post that and if I do, i'll mention that it was indeed an episode that was supposed to be in this season but didn't make it in. And, I do think that we'll be getting S3 sooner than later, which is exciting! Wishing you a Happy New Year!
Let’s not forget Tony and Bruce collabing on the gamma project is what led to the creation of Smart Hulk . *see End Game* *See She Hulk episode 1&2*
Oh yeah...excellent point! Nice tie-in!
What If...? season 2 was so much better than season 1, I didn't hate the first season but it felt like it was playing safer than I wanted it to because the studio wasn't sure if the audience would buy it. This season had a lot more fun and Strange Supreme as the big bad was surprising. I want to see an episode in season 3 where Iron Man fights Wenwu because he is now the MCU's adaptation of the Mandarin and Tony never got a chance to fight his comic book arch-nemesis.
Well said...I think S2 really went for it alot more than S1. I enjoyed this season immensely. And I'd be so down for a Tony v. Wenwu fight. Bring it on, Marvel! Wishing you a Happy New year!
@@AbitofEverything4UI know that Aldrich Killian was meant to be the Mandarin and do technically Tony did fight his arch-nemesis in Iron Man 3 but Wenwu's introduction kinda undoes that concept on a rewatch, aren't retcons fun, it's just like reading an older comic book run and you know the ending is either undone or deemed incorrect because of a later story
Right...in fact I did a vid on all the retcons in the MCU. I don't mind a retcon that is really just us learning something we never knew before...which is mostly what Marvel has tried to do. It's a sneaky way of recontextualizing an early story.
amazing vid!
Thanks! Really appreciate it!