If you'd like to join the discord server, here is a link: discord.gg/aboeMCU. There are over 900 members so far. Love to have you be part of the conversation!
All of this I find a great explanation (including being able to use different intinity stone but not destroy them and how Janet van Dyne contracted the virus). It's explaning everything that becomes difficult. I applaud you for doing so by making the video. But somehow I feel the writers _will_ play other places than 616 before Phase 6 is over.
@@Buffy8Fan Yeah, I'm really hoping the writers stick to this model. I mean, to their credit, it all works out very well. I didn't think there was a model that would make it all fit, but amazingly it does. So I do hope that they are operating under the same set of rules for future MCU entries. Fingers crossed!
Janet’s Nexus Point didn’t happen inside of the Quantum Realm, but was the domino effect that allowed that variant of Janet to catch the disease in the Quantum Realm. You explained it pretty well, so give yourself credit bro! This makes me want to see What If again! 🍿🍿🍿
Maybe with the Infinity Crusher, it's because the technology was developed before it interacted with Ultron's stones? The Infinity Gauntlet that Tony made to use with the Time Heist stones was made after the stones were collected, so it could account for each stone's uniqueness (including that the stones came from 4 branches). But the Crusher wasn't designed for Ultron's stones - hypothetically, Tony's gauntlet also couldn't use Ultron's (or any other) stones
I’m so happy and thankful at least you have the initiative to try and explain this for fans and the doing the studios job but watch the next up multiverse connect projects like Whatif s2/Deadpool disregard all of these “rules” just for the purpose of they stories they want to tell at that given time. This is the biggest issue that’s killing any and all my enjoyment of the entire franchise at this point (and judging by fan and general audiences they’ve had enough) it’s having all these pieces of a jigsaw as rules slightly change every film/show one after another. If even the hardcore fans have to use directors and writers explanations after the fact then how and why should general audiences care anymore.
Yeah, I agree, Marvel needs to do a better job of explaining the concepts behind the multiverse and being consistent with the terms. It does indeed hurt the excitement of both casual fans and even hard-core fans. Here's hoping things continue to improve in those areas as we move further into the multiverse saga!
Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. All I know is it sure helps me to make these vids as it gets it all straight in my own head in the process! lol!
Great vid as always. Some thoughts I had. - If there is heaps of variants of Janet throughout 616-adjacent timelines that branched before they entered the quantum realm than there is no physical way for them to have lived the same experience inside the quantum realm. They can’t be seperate Janets and then suddenly become one Janet when they go into the QR. This leads me to believe that branches actually go into different parts of the quantum realm which is consistent with “traveling between timelines” shown in Endgame, the timelines being in different locations physically in the QR. You could just say that the realm is so vast that there are similar locations outside every branch due to similar events happening in the real world just outside on each branch. - The QR is outside of time but it also does have a linear flow of time. The fact that Kang was seemingly banished there “after” the death of He Who Remains and not before would imply that the history of the QR can be re-written right? Some of the problems I have with the MCU multiverse rules is that we have the benefit of seeing the effects of the multiverse play out in real time because that’s where we are up to in the story but for He Who Remains and now Loki the entire history of each branch exists all at once. If Kang only existed after the multiversal war then there has to be a version of the MCU where Janet goes into the QR and never experiences Kang at all. Is it possible that the entire MCU since Endgame has an altered history due to Kang being dumped into the QR. The events of Quantumania only happen because of the events of Endgame which is confusing in the sense of time because the TVA only pick up Kang from Quantumania during Loki S2 despite the entire timeline already existing for them in entirety. To me this implies that Loki and Kang have changed the MCU’s history and we are now watching an altered MCU chronology or depending on how you see it, how it was meant to play out before HWR subjugated it into one timeline. - Where and when does the watcher’s hideout take place. If the Watcher, like the TVA can view the entirety of every branch, how can Ultron, even after becoming self aware arrive exactly at that point in the watcher’s chronology. - The realms that exist outside of space and time (TVA, QR, the Watcher’s realm), seem to really just mean they have their own space and time so I struggle understand why when someone from the timeline enters one of these realms it is at the point of time in said realm that it is. It is fine from our perspective because we don’t think about it but from say the perspective of the Watcher why do events happen in the order that they do. * The What If timelines are presented as branches of 616 by the watcher but some of the universes already are different. The Captain Carter universe already is clearly different before Peggy decides to stay in the room (maybe its a branch of a branch?) and what about absolute points? Doctor Strange in 616 doesn’t even have to lose Christine its his hands, if it was purely a branch then wouldn’t those rules also apply to the main timeline? - If AOS is part of the multiverse then which one is it, a universe or a branch. The reason I never wanted it to he decanonised from 616 is because it doesn’t logically fit anywhere else due to the Age of Ultron tie-in. If it is a branch then how do you explain Fury getting the helicarrier in AOU exactly the same way. And if it branched after that then isn’t there an Inhuman Quake and a non-LMD living Coulson out there in the main MCU post-2015?
Wow...great feedback on the vid! Here are my thoughts: - I agree 100% that each Janet in the QR goes into different parts of the QR. The QR is outside of space and time, so it's likely so big you would never run into your variants. - On the flow of time, I think we just have to accept that Marvel is playing abit loose with cause and effect. So here is what I think they are saying happens. 1. Multiversal War occurs and Kang is banished 2. HWR wins the war and builds the loom. 3. In 1987, Janet enters the QR. 4. In 2009 (based on Peyton Reed interview for the year), Kang arrives in the QR (the QR is just plain weird...maybe Kang was trapped in a time vortex for a long time?). 5. In 2018, Janet escapes the QR 6. In 2023, time heist happens and Loki escapes 7. At the end of time, Loki and Sylvie encounter HWR and eventually the loom is shut down and the 616 multiverse branches out. 8. What If, MoM, NWH, etc all happen due to the loom being gone. 8. In 2026, QM happens and Kang is "killed". Granted, that is very, very, VERY, timey wimey. But I think that's how they are having it play out. - I assume the Watcher is at located at some some nexus of all realities that can observe the 616 universes and it is outside of time and space, sorta like the TVA. I think Ultron entered that nexus location in what was "present time" for the Watcher. - I agree that it is weird how people entering the realms that exist outside of space and time (TVA, QR, the Watcher’s realm) manage to show up at "present time" for the characters in that space. - I agree that the branch points for the What If episodes seem at times to be earlier than the point that the Watcher is stating. Not sure why that happens, but ig it's just how the story is being told. - I think that Feige is calling AoS a branch off the sacred timeline, but the timeline book didn't make it 100% clear. As for the Helicarrier, my understanding in the sacred timeline is that someone else in SHIELD got it working again, so it isn't the same as what happened in AoS, even if the end result looked the same. Not saying I like that answer, but that seems to be how it happened. Some of these things are just like the infinity stone crusher...Marvel is saying "that's just how it worked". I wish everything had a perfect answer, but I have found that as long as there is as much overall consistency as possible (such as with the rules of how a branched universe vs. an alternate universe works) then I'm fine with letting some of the smaller things go. Anyway, thx so much for your awesome feedback on the vid. Loved reading it all!
Perhaps these branches can also explain how we have a Comics 616 and a MCU 616. Perhaps the MCU and the comics simply two of the many branches of the same universe? We can also explain away the Spiderverse having their own numbered system. Maybe Tom Holland’s 19999 and Peter B Parker’s 616 are in the same ‘616’ Universe, but in the Spider-verse they decided to gove them different numbers.
I'm thinking more that the Comics would be completely Alternate Universes...The rules of the MCU and Comics contradict too much. But if they're each separate Multiverses in an Omniverse then they can connect while also having different rules. Same with Sony Verse, Spider-Verse, Fox Verse etc.
Great feedback on the vid. So, what's interesting is that Feige has said that the reason he is fine with the MCU being 616 is he considers the MCU to be the live-action adaptation of the comics and thus they are both 616. I found that to be interesting as it at least explains why Feige wants it to be 616 so badly. As for Miguel and 199999, I agree 100%. I think it's totally fine for Miguel to have a different numbering for the MCU as he came up with the number independently. So that works really well. Love your theory on that! Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@flamesofchaos13 Totally agreed! Feige has said that the reason he is fine with the MCU being 616 is he considers the MCU to be the live-action adaptation of the comics and thus they are both 616. So I think your theory is spot on!
So, I'm going to be very interested to see where they go with the Spider-Verse. Lord and Miller emphatically said there is no crossover with the MCU and all the references to it are only meta. But I suspect they were being coy and that there will be a crossover eventually. Thus, my theory is that the Spider-Verse is a set of alternate universes that are bound together with the Web of Life and Destiny. So that could indeed include 616 in that web. Not sure how that worked while the loom was in place, but perhaps it only became part of the web of life and destiny after the loom was destroyed? I agree, will be a fun topic to tackle in a video!
I want to chime in on the subject of the Nexus Point vs. Absolute Point concepts. A Nexus point is a choice, action or decision that leads to a new Timeline/Universe. Absolute points are circumstances in time that can't be altered whatsoever. Like mini loops within timelines that are fixed and impossible to change. You can't create a Nexus Event on an Absolute Point. Supreme Strange kept enduring the inevitable death of Christine, no matter how many times he tried. That just led to the destruction of that entire timeline. Nexus events create new timelines, but Absolute Points must happen or risk implosions. Think of an editor's typical timeline on a program, and imagine you just deleted a random moment in the middle, but instead of the timeline's bridging together, they just stay put. Now imagine, this timeline is a bridge, well then the whole thing is crashing down if a large chunk was removed in the middle. That is why Absolute Points must happen. There are points in time that not even the most amazing magic or tech can alter, so this is why those moments are absolute. If you can create a Nexus event, then that moment was not absolute.
Very well stated! Yeah, I think that's an excellent way to view absolute points vs. nexus points. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. Really enjoyed reading it all.
Hey, man! Great video, as always! So, here's my theory on why the Stone Crusher didn't work, and it's really simple when you think about it: things, including the Infinity Stones themselves, change over time. Let me explain. The first point is that we know that the 616 Stones are "almost" the same in every branch of the 616 multiverse, otherwise the Time Heist in Endgame wouldn't have worked and Ultron in What If wouldn't have been able to use them while fighting the Watcher across the various universes that they visited, and that's a fact. But it's also true from Loki and from What If that when a Nexus event happens, a new branched universe is created. But this does not destroy the original universe. The Sacred Timeline is still there, even after multiple branches are created off of it. That means that after it's been created, a branched timeline now lives independently from the "parent" timeline, with its own copy of the Stones and everything and everyone else in it and it can now develop in a totally different way, and we saw that happen multiple times in What If and in Loki. Now, if branches can develop indepdently from one another, what's stopping us from thinking that the Stones themselves haven't changed in some way, maybe due to natural evolution, usage by magic users, or some other external factor? Even if you think back to the Infinity Saga, we've seen the original six Stones being manipulated in ways that "changed" them in some way, by changing their physical form (for example, think of the Reality Stone being turned from a solid object into liquid form by Malekith in Thor 2) or by changing their properties (think of the Mind Stone being used to essentially power up a robot, with Vision). This means that within the same multiverse, in this case the 616 multiverse, the Stones are fundamentally the same everywhere, in the sense that they all share the same laws of physics and fundamental "DNA", but beyond that, they're just objects like any other, that can be used, misused, changed or even destroyed. This allows them to be used in a different universe, because they are all 616 Stones and they follow the same fundamental rules, but as concrete, physical objects they can have different properties or exist in different states, depending on what happened to them in that specific universe. So maybe the reason why the Stone Crusher didn't work in that instance is because it was created with the Stones as they appear in Gamora's original universe, but, essential properties aside, they could have been in a totally different form from the Stones that they actually used the machine on. It's like when you tune an instrument into a particular key: the basic musical notes are the same, and you can play them in the same sequence each time, but you'll get a different song in the end. I hope this makes sense! Also, thank you for including my suggestion about using the word "omniverse" to indicate the collection of alternate universes. I agree that it's not an official term, but I think we can use it if it makes things clear to understand for us. This makes it much clearer when we say, for example, that America Chavez's unique power is that she's the only being who can travel the omniverse, while everyone else is confined within their own multiverse. Maybe if we use it enough we can even manifest it into canon one day haha! Keep up the good work!
Awesome explanation for the stone crusher. That makes a ton of sense. And I love your idea of using the term omniverse. That was an excellent suggestion you made earlier. And you are right, it does indeed let us describe America's powerset alot more easily. Great stuff!
Something interesting in What If…? is that there are more divergences than the ones we focus on. When Infinity Ultron is destroying planets, he kills the Guardians who are defending the batteries even though that takes place a year prior in the main universe
the term Omniverse has been used by Marvel before to encompass every reality that can be imagined. They specifically name star wars and a bunch of other things, even fanfictions and ideas that only exist in your head. If you can imagine it, it's part of the omniverse.
I 100% agree that What If isn't necessarily animated, and that was just how they chose to show it (because it was probably easier) but as far as MCU canon, it hasn't been. At least to me. The only canon animated universe was in Dr Strange MoM, because we saw Captain Carter. Granted, she may not be from the exact same universe we saw in What If, but I still feel that the medium we're shown, doesn't necessarily mean the actual end all be all of what is true. I also say this because it helps me take Love and Thunder more seriously if I'm watching it from Korg's viewpoint rather than what actually happened.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see whether What If starts to connect with 616 more directly as we get closer to Secret Wars. I tend to think that might happen. And yeah, totally agree on L&T. I like it alot better if I think of it as being retold by Korg, who made it sillier along the way. Nice call!
During Season 1's run, I typed up The Watcher's MCU wiki page from each episode, I definitely look foward to doing it again for this season. The reason why was the same reason you liked the show, because of how fantastical and unique it gets, and Wright's performance as Uatu.
Oh how cool...I didn't know you did that for the wiki. Thanks for your work on that...love that wiki so much! And I'm very stoked for season 2. Gonna be a fun ride!
Marvel Comics does use the term onniverse as a catch all of ALL existing multiverses. Mostly in stories involving Captain Brittain. The MCU hasn't used the term yet but it's the level the Living Tribunal works on and we know he's been to 616 at some point.
19:54 One Quantum Realm, but just like Scott's probability storm in Quantumania, it is entirely feasible that Janet's multiple possibilities coexist in the Quantum Realm. Remember, the Quantum Realm itself is a singular location, but it's also likely infinite in size and the individuals within the Quantum Realm can very easily be caught up in places that split them or earlier branching decisions cause a different Janet to go into the Quantum Realm and that Janet contracted the zombie virus. Basically, just cause you can't cause another full timeline to branch off in the Quantum Realm, doesn't technically mean that an alternate choice or experience in the Quantum Realm can't rejoin the Timeline and create a branch. The Quantum Realm is weird like that. One Quantum Realm, multiple Janets.
This is starting to almost sound like Steins;Gate logic, where you have an alpha, beta, etc. groups of different timelines. 616 might be something like the alpha world line. Except that in Steins;Gate, only one timeline is ever active.
Very cool analogy with Steins;Gate...yeah, I think this MCU multiversal model is fascinating and really lets Marvel go to town with Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars down the line!
Sometimes, I really don't envy your job lol. I don't have thousands of people expecting me to figure out how the MCU works, I just have fun theorizing as well as working off of what other people come up with for my own pleasure. Figuring out What If is not fun for me, so I've never even cared to try. I have so many problems with that show not making sense in so many different ways that I refuse to even consider it canon in my own mind until something prevents me from being able to take that approach. I appreciate you being willing to tackle it. Great video.
I know what you mean about What If seemingly being so loose with the rules. It made it hard for me to enjoy the first season, tbh. That said, after looking at it in respect to the multiversal model in this vid, it suddenly made me respect season 1 alot more. It still has a few things that make me wince (the infinity stone crusher being right at the top of that list), but overall, the show does seem to fit well in the overall model. I'm cautiously optimistic for Season 2...fingers crossed they don't go too wild on us this time around!
Thanks so much for the kind words and positive feedback. I just hope I'm not as boring as some of my teachers in school...otherwise everyone will be playing on their phones instead of watching the vid...lol!
I didnt even thought I needed so much clarification on this topic. I always just roughly thought "it will fit somehow" but this video was so interesting and made so much more clear! Thank you!
Thanks for making a full video on this. Great right before season 2. Like you said, not going to think too much about it or parse every word like I have with Loki, but this was a nice comprehensive video to watch. I like how you reminded us that America doesn't cause incursions. It has me wondering what type of being she is. Is she a part of every universe? I'll have to look more into her comic book origins in depth. They can do some really cool things with that character. So excited for the return of Strange Supreme. The end of his episode where he is saying he is sorry is one of my favorite MCU moments, love the music in the background. It is interesting knowing that last we saw him, he was in the same position as Loki, he was so fixated on saving Christine, much like Loki was fixated on his throne, that he caused lots of destruction, but was able to redeem himself by sacrificing himself to indefinitely contain Zola and Killmonger to protect the Multiverse.
I agree...I love Strange Supreme. That final line of his was so amazing. And that's a great analogy regarding his fate and Loki's fate. Can't wait for Season 2 to drop!
I literally paused the video right before you started talking about the omniverse, I had a whole paragraph including the definition, but I can summarize what I really wanted to say as that I think that the Beyonder is someone capable of doing what Loki did in the finale but with separate multiverses and not just universes and I would not be surprised if that is what Secret Wars goes into. The fact that you are going that far continues to prove that Marvel needs to have you on their team.
Great point about the Beyonder being able to do what Loki did but across separate multiverses! Yes, I think that's where things are headed with Secret Wars. Can't wait to see it all play out!
when people try and tell me the time mechanics in the MCU dont work i always push back because if you really understand it its the best iteration ive seen in my opinion
In my timeline I place each episode after the events that inspired the Watcher to view the alternate timeline so obviously episode 1 after the first avenger Then episode 2 in 2008 between Iron Man 1 and 2 because that's when it happens and it has to be seen before episode 3 which comes directly after the first avengers movie even though its based on fury's big week... however at the start of the episode we see its actually the first avengers move that inspires the watcher to view this specific timeline. Then obviously episode 4 after doctor strange, episode 5 after both infinity war and the AoS season 5 episodes that occur around Infinity War Episode 6 directly after Endgame but before Loki as a dual tribute to Chadwick Boseman and the Tony Stark character, then I have Loki after episode 6 to explain why there's a multi verse (and obviously it comes after Endgame anyway) And then directly after Loki it's the final 3 episodes which I have dubbed "the Ultra-Vision Trilogy" 😂 Also, from the way i view it the events of Loki occur outside of time where everything on the timeline is happening all at once from the TVA's perspective... so anything set in another timeline can be placed either after Loki or when it actually occurs respective to the main MCU timeline.
People want Marvel to take a break. I think they actually need to produce more content reiterating the time travel and multiverse rules . They should have 4 or 5 more projects in the next two years where characters are confirming the rules . I hope WhatIf season two is more in line with the rules established in Loki, No Way Home, MOM, and The Marvels . I know the first season was partially done when they were writing Loki.
Yeah, hopefully with each new entry that the MCU continues to reinforce the rules. I think it's important that they makes things really clear going forward. Well said!
I think Janet could've branched herself from the sacred timeline for pretty much any reason before entering the Quantum Realm, and the timing of where she just happened to be, even by a few seconds, caused her to get exposed to the zombie virus, whereas the sacred timeline's Janet just barely missed it. Or maybe that Janet never met Kang or any of the people from that civilization (otherwise they'd remember meeting two Janets), so she had a completely different adventure, and contracted the virus as a result. The idea that What If all takes place in branches off of 616 makes sense, as far as how the Watcher explains how the different universes get created, and explaining how people can travel between those universes without creating incursions. But you really have to stretch an explanation for why the Infinity Stones are different. So I think we'll have to wait and see if the rules get explained further in Season 2.
Good suggestions for how to solve the Janet issue. I like those. And I agree...I'll be watching What If S2 very closely to see if the rules still all apply!
It's funny. The way the "time travel" was initially explained in Endgame made it sound exactly like Dragon Ball, but then Loki Season 1 made it sound like they were waving off the idea for simplifying Branches to being anything at all (say, X Men or Blade branches) but the way you explain it sounds a lot more like Dragon Ball all over again, just scaled up. In dragon ball, for example, Trunks in the Cell Saga comes from the future, but not THE future, an alternate future, where 2 androids are causing mass chaos and his mother, Bulma, invented pretty much the exact same solution as Tony Stark, so Trunks comes from that alternate future to help the timeline we follow from getting to that point, but Trunks' home is still ruined. He still gets to stop it from having more harm done to it, but he has to live with those consequences. Then Dragon Ball Super defined 7 different universes, where things could generally be very different, like the Sayians existing in one right next to the regular Dragon Ball timeline but having been the polar opposite of the conquerors that Goku and Vegeta were born from (and then generally everything else being very weird and alien like pizza balls in Multiverse of Madness) There's a few differences like the MCU assumedly having more than 7 general universes or way more than only 3-4 alternate timelines but that's why I say it's scaled up.
There are multiple futures in the Comics...Multiple versions of 2099 and Age of Apocalypse and Days of Future Past and Earth-8 and Kang's Home Reality etc are all Alternate Futures of Alternate Realities. 2099's being the Futures for Peter B Parker's E-616 the Main Timeline, Earth-8 for Spider-Gwen's E-65, Age of Apocalypse being Apocalypse the First Mutant winning, Days of Future Past being that Dark Anti-Mutant Future, OG Kang comes from the Future where Nuclear Warfare occurred and Space Colonization, There's other Alternate Futures of various Post-Apocalypses and a few Paradises. There's an Infinite number of realities the Gods have stated such. The biggest number designation is Earth-28744923048932. But the number system doesn't start at 0 or 1 it starts at Earth-001 (Center of the Web of Life and Destiny/Homeworld of Gods) then there's an Earth-1. Also there's non numbered or numbered differently realities that are given alternate titles such as Earth-Del-Iader-Byshire, Earth-X-Ian-49, Framework, Mojoverse, Styrakos, Earth-P-1837, Earth-616B. Then there's Earth-616 Beta which is called an Anomaly Reality that is said to exist outside the Web of Life and Destiny which equals the Entire Multiverse in the Comics. Also Earth 42 from Spider-Verse is 100% new content. There was never a previous Earth 42 shown...That is the only Earth 42. Only now is it being showcased then everything indicates it's a branched timeline of Miles 1610B's reality.
Brother, I've been watching your breakdowns of the MCU timeline since a few years. Love your work. Keep it up. Okay, I've been meaning to get my message to you for a while now. It's regarding the Ms Marvel timeline placement. Fans have been fighting over whether it's around June 2025 (because of Eid) or September 2025 (because American school year starts in Sept) in the MCU. As a Muslim myself, let me clarify this dispute on its placement. First, there are two Eids in Islam. Eid-ul-Fitr (the lesser Eid) and Eid-ul-Adha (the greater Eid) (pronounced Eid-ul-Azha). Both Eids are celebrated for three consecutive days respectively. Secondly, the Muslim calendar is different from the Zodiac calendar. Both consist of 12 months but the Muslim calendar starts in Muharram and ends with Duh Al-Hijjah (pronounced as "Zu al-Hijjah). Each month begins at the time of the new moon. The Muslim months in chronological order: Muḥarram, Ṣafar, Rabīʿ al-Awwal, Rabīʿ al-Thānī, Jumādā al-Awwal, Jumādā al-Thānī, Rajab, Shaʿbān, Ramaḍān, Shawwāl, Dhū al-Qaʿdah, and Dhū al-Ḥijjah. The "Dh" and "Th" are basically the "Z" and "S" in Arabic. Thirdly, the lesser Eid occurs on the first day of Shawwal, and the greater Eid somewhere in the last month of the Islamic calendar. So, the lesser Eid is around March 30 in 2025 and the greater Eid is around June 6 of that year. Ms Marvel's co-creator (both the comic's and the show's) Sana Amanat Ali has specified that Kamala celebrates the greater Eid in the show. But the show itself says that the characters are celebrating the lesser Eid (which is at the end of Ramadan and the beginning of Shawwal) This without a doubt places it in May-July 2025 timeframe but still leads to further confusion because of the school year. I leave the rest at your hands, brother.
Wow...that info that you shared was awesome! One thing I really loved about the Ms. Marvel show was how much I got to learn about Muslim culture. I honestly knew nothing about the Partition and while I knew of Ramadan, I didn't know about the two Eid celebrations. I felt the show was an amazing way to teach non-Muslims like myself about the beauty of the culture, religion, and beliefs. Kudos to the writers and directors for their work on the show! Regarding the Eids, following the end of the show I did start to try to learn about the Eids and when they take place in 2025 (the year of the show). So my research shows that in 2025, the dates are Eid ul-Fitr in March/April and Eid ul-Adha in June. As you pointed out, there is a brief, but important, dialogue where Bruno says "Eid again" and Ms. Marvel mentions it is the "lessor Eid". But what I learned about Sana Amanat is that she put in her own inside joke, which is that she always felt the second Eid wasn't as fun because they don't get presents. That's why Kamala says that. So the Eid being celebrated is the second Eid, which would place the show in June, 2025. However, so many internal clues indicate it is really in September, such as Fall/Beginning of the school year related posters at school (voting for Homecoming Queen), a September 9th date on a poster, in Ep 3 Bruno has a September calendar displayed at the Circle Q, Kamala hasn't taken the SAT or submitted college applications, and Kamran is a transfer student which wouldn't make sense at the end of a school year. Lastly, the timeline book places the show in Fall, 2025, so my guess is that Sana wanted the show to be the beginning of Kamala's junior year but also wanted the show to feature an Eid celebration due to the importance of that event to Kamala's family. Thus, why it's place in Fall, 2025 yet features the second Eid celebration. Thank you so much for your amazing comment and for taking the time to share all that additional history that I wasn't aware of. Again, loved the show and I also absolutely adored Kamala in The Marvels. Iman is a national treasure!
I just see it as there are two different variants at the same time (or close to) in the quantum realm. One from 616 (or 199999) and the other one from a branched timeline. I was just thinking like you did; there must have been an event that occured before Janet (What If's Janet) got stuck in the quantum realm, creating a new branch. That way it is possible that there were two Janets in there at the same time and that What If's Janet landed in a different place where she caught the virus, hence why our Janet didn't become infected.
I also think the "branching" could have happened in the quantum realm, similar to how there were two timelines present in one universe in the Doctor Strange episode. In fact, maybe the Ancient One's spell was based on scaling up the properties of quantum particles. In quantum mechanics, it is known that for tiny particles, multiple states of existence occur at the same time. It's only when we observe them that only one possibility manifests. If you extrapolate this to the quantum realm in Marvel, maybe multiple "realities" are constantly forming in the quantum realm, but they all co-exist (kind of like Scott being multiplied in the probability field). There is only one quantum realm for the entire 616 multiverse, but there are multiple realities co-existing in that quantum realm. Maybe when Janet got trapped in the quantum realm, she was duplicated, and one of the (many) versions of her was infected by the zombie virus. But it wasn't until that version of Janet re-emerged into the regular world that a branched timeline formed.
I have a theory to explain Zombie Janet. The Quantum Realm is the multiverse's basement, right? It spans the entirety of every branch and universe, just underneath the surface. So I think both Janets were in the same Quantum Realm, just far, far apart from one another. Prime 616 Janet landed in a habitable place in the Quantum Realm, as that was the part of the realm that was adjacent to her timeline. Following the basement metaphor, she landed in a part of the basement that's underneath the kitchen. Meanwhile Zombie Janet (who was maybe already on a branch or got shrunken down at a slightly different place) landed in a part of the Quantum Realm where the zombie virus was present. She landed in a part of the basement underneath the bathroom. Both Janets (and possibly more variants of her) lived in the Quantum Realm at the same time. The Quantum Realm is so large that it spans the entire multiverse, so any alternate Janets would never cross paths and go back to their respective universes without suspecting a thing.
I'm excited to see how they bring everything back together. The reality of copyrights has created this mess of different content by different companies and since Disney and Kevin Feige are bringing everything into the same universe, they're finally able to expand to film! After the infinity saga, it's clear that when someone has a vision, they can make something great, and the possibilities are endless!
Well said! Yes, it will be so awesome to have all of the characters under one roof soon. It really expands the possibilities for where things can go from here with the MCU. So exciting!
Honestly I feel so lucky to have seen the birth of the MCU. I remember when my stepdad bought Iron Man in 2008, and I saw Thor in 2011, I had no idea. When I went to see infinity war in theater, I didn't know they were all connected, but omg I was so ready for Endgame after I had my eyes opened to the connectivity of the 20+ films! That's why I loved Loki and think if they have a plan, the story will work out.
I agree 100%...I think Feige has a plan for what to do when he finally has all the toys to play with and I can't wait to see what he has in store for us!
It must be incredible for him to have lived his whole life to become the one with the opportunity to bring the Marvel heroes together in film. I can't imagine anything as fulfilling. It seems like it was written for reality to line up with Disney buying all of the properties back and Feige rising to lead Marvel
Thanks...I have indeed been referred to as the Khan Academy for the MCU. I'm down with that, as long as I'm not as boring as some of my teachers were...lol!
A perfect video before What If Season 2!!! I really like What If, especially I am so excited to see again Supreme Strange and Wanda! I think that we will have so much fun 😊❤ Absolutely such a great Christmas gift 🎉 Thank you so much for the explanation
The creative choice makes production of multiple plots involving the same core characters easier and quicker in comparison than shooting live action films.
Thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vid. Yeah, it was alot of fun trying to put all the pieces together regarding What If. Makes me all the more excited for season 2 coming soon!
Love that explanation from Fitz...the entire Season 7 was amazing, but I about jumped off the couch when he dropped those lines. I was like "that's how they should have explained it in Endgame...go Fitz!"
Hence why the terms Megaverse and Omniverse should be used. Multiverse a Universe (+branches), Megaverse the collection of Marvel Brand Multiverses, Omniverse = Everything in existence including the Real World.
Yeah, I agree...I wish they didn't call 616 and its branches a multiverse, but then again, I don't know what would I would have recommended that they collectively call it. I mean, technically speaking, it is a multiverse, but just not how we would normally think of it. I hope they find better terms going forward, as that's one of the biggest points of confusion right now. But I'm still really excited to see where things go from here. What If S2 looks great!
Thought about this a couple mins into the video: if the “cosmic forest” of a multiverse is the true vision for what the multiverse is meant to look like in the context of the MCU, I think it’s similar to the multiverse of Rick and Morty. When watching the episode, “The Ricklantis Mixup”, there are multiple anchorman ricks that seem to originate from the same but slightly altered universes with their monikers being a only a letter off from one another. This implies that there are multiple realities that have to same basic rules applied to them with multiple histories erupting from them. This parallels what is thought to be in the MCU. I expect that when we see the TVA again, they will instead be denoting realities with a ETH-616X designation, displaying the differences in the branches. Weird theory but it seems kinda cool. EDIT: There is also a device that holds the sacred universes together in both, in the MCU we have the loom and in Rick and Morty we have the Central Finite Curve.
Good point! I am not surprised at all that there are similarities with Rick and Morty, since both Waldron and Loveness worked on that show. I think it gave them alot to consider as they crafted the MCU multiversal model.
I didn’t even realize that about Waldron and Loveness. It’s so cool to think that these projects came from wildly different places and still ended up influencing one another.
I kind of think that whether we like it or not, What If is in another universe just by the fact that it is animated, BUT the same events can still take place in the live action universe
I definitely had that concern about What If being animated, but as I mention in the vid, we've seen lots of creative choices on the presentation of MCU entries. I am Groot is part of the live action universe but the series was shown in photo-realistic animation. GotG is part of the live action universe, but had cartoon flashbacks in the GotG HS. And WbN is part of the 616 color universe, but was shown in B&W. So ig for me, it isn't an issue that What if is in 3D animation. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
In relation to Janet contracting the virus and the other Janets didnt. The Quantum Realm is massive and endless. The other Janets are likely to never be in that area of the realm.
21:58 It is worth pointing out that this exception probably isn't as strange or insane as it sounds like considering that the Dark Dimension is specifically a place without time. The Ancient One using any sort of temporal manipulation based in the Quantum Realm or physics as the MCU understands it would've created a branch timeline that magic likely wouldn't be able to reach as every timeline branch we see is only ever reached via scientific means or Time Slipping (to my recollection). But by drawing on magic which siphons energy from other dimensions, like the Dark Dimension (which we know can grant the channeler massive control over fractal realities such as the Mirror Dimension) and using it to mirror Stephen Strange's choices allows for Stephen to be split without any effect on time's path, and thus without the creation of a split timeline.
Excellent point! Yeah, the Dr. Strange story was a very funky episode, but I liked it alot and I agree, dark magic could indeed do something that the quantum realm couldn't. Well said!
Also, with America, you said she can safely travel the multiverse. I agree. I think that because she's the only incarnation and that no other universe has her, she is safe. Sort of like how Spiderman No Way Home pulled the villains in, if no other universe ever has America, no matter what she does, there's no other universe related to her, so she has what we'd call, an "Out of jail free" card. Edit: Should have listened to everything you said first, but yes, i agree
Very well said...I think that explains America Chavez perfectly. She's a really cool character and I can't wait to see what role she'll play going forward!
I feel like the way marvel has this set up is that the general multiverse theory is used in forming the different big bangs and the creation of the infinity stones. Where every universe is its own pocket like 616 and 838. And then inside those universes there is the branches, which relates more to the many worlds interpretation from quantum mechanics. This is in line with your theories. I think marvel drew inspiration from these two multiverse theories and combined them into 1. When are they just gonna explain it... Maybe in Deadpool 3?
I like how you described that. Yes, I could see some of these being pocket universes. That's a cool way to view it. And you ask a fantastic question...when will someone (maybe Selvig?) get in front of a chalk board and draw this all out. We need that sooooo badly!
@@AbitofEverything4U I feel like the best way out of this is a scene similar to hulk in endgame explaining the time travel rules and I see it going somewhat like this: There would be a group of characters discussing some impending doom on the multiverse and someone will say "wait, so there is a multiverse?" To which someone like Hulk will call back to endgame and say "Yes, for every action we make our timeline splits into every possibility creating new universes that branch off from ours." Then strange will come in and say "But I was once in a universe where I was made of paint.. how did a single choice lead to me being paint?" To which they will theorize that there must be other timelines out there with their own set of rules and their own set of branches. And that that must be where all the Kangs came from. Idk I'm just writing fanfiction here now LOL. good video as always though!
I have 2 potential ideas for the whole Quantum Realm stuff both of which could be developed more in depth. 1) The Quantum Realm could be infinite/near-infinite and repeating in space with each universe having its own part '616 adjacent' could refer to a specific area of it. This is based off of a theoretical idea where in a large enough universe - and the fact that there is only a finite way atoms and the like can be ordered - chances are you could find someone identical to you and somewhere identical to Earth. 2) Quantum shenanigans 🤷♂️
Theory. The what if series is in universe 617. The reality stone has to be different for animation, where all the others are the same. In a infinite in the omniverse that has to be possible. The animation in GOTG Christmas special, they were either showing the 617 universe sacred timeline or they were just doing a special bit for Christmas. The 617 explanation would cover any animations in a cannon way.
And the omniverse already exsist in the mcu due to its concept. What I think you are referring to is the megaverse. The omniverse would have to include DC and other properties. . . With that being said you know more than me. Also the quantum realm might be 616.XX specific so it would still connect the multiverse of 616 but not of 617 so Janet's there are more likely to be infected when going into the "basement" of their multiverse. I could be jannet van dyme being the second most pruned individual for not following their set path in the quantum realm and when she leaves she gets pruned then. And your theory still works. When 617 God of Stories loki makes the multiverse of 617, what if can happen after that.
Good call on using the term megaverse instead of omniverse. I like that idea. As for What If, I'm totally down with Marvel making it a different universe from 616. That said, I think the timeline book seemed to indicate that it was branches off of 616. The animation style isn't an issue, due to there being other examples of creative choices to show things in animation that are actually live action, such as the flashbacks in the GotG HS. So I personally like it being branches off 616, but if Marvel goes with your 617 idea, I'd be fine with that as well. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
Maybe jumping between universe creates intertwined branches between 2 universes which could explain Reeds explanation about the boundaries being eroded
I view the numerical designations, like 616, as not referring to a single main universe and branches, but more like a spectrum. Kind of like the light spectrum, there are essentially infinite frequencies, but we refer to a group of them collectively as something like red. Red doesn’t refer to a single wavelength of light, it refers to an infinite number of very similar wavelengths. The multiverse is similar, at least in my opinion. 616 is not a single timeline, but a spectrum of different events and nexus points that exists simultaneously with each other.
All the hand wavy explanations are genuinely mildly infuriating lol This video as always is very well explained and spoken! Lets hope What If s02 manages to fit within the established rules so far, or explains some of these things just a little bit more like you lol
Yeah, fingers crossed that WI S2 follows the same rules. I mean I do think Marvel ultimately put alot of thought into it as the rules have been surprisingly consistent. What I think Marvel hasn't done a good job at is explaining it all. We need Selvig at a chalkboard drawing a model of the multiverse and we need it now!
I personally didn’t think it’s so hard to follow. If you even notice. The movies have been dealing with alternate universe and different realms and dimensions while the Disney plus shows have only dealt with timelines so far.
Loved the Loki Tree video. I like the Janet theory except it doesn't really answer how the difference seemingly happens in the same Quantum Realm. I wonder, could the "Quantum Realm" just be a repeated space? I wonder how the QR works between Alternate Universes? We assumed that interview was talking about it being the basement between places like 616 & 838. What if it's instead the basement of the Tree, and that's why it's "616 adjacent realm"? Every branch universe gets a copy of its parent's QR, and each AU has its own QR. Edit: OK, Just remembered Kang presumably wouldn't be copied, so we go to a twist off the original idea. The Tree has the QR, and it touches all the branches, but it doesn't extend to fellow Alternate Universes. Who knows, maybe the other AUs don't have QRs.
So, the Janet theory is that whatever additional environmental factor she encountered outside the QR made her more susceptible to the virus. Thus, no other Janet would contract it as they didn't encounter the environmental factor. It's almost like a different person entered the QR in that universe. But yeah, just a reach to try to explain it. I do like they way you are thinking about the QR and the multiverse. It's hard to tell if it is one QR per multiverse or one QR per omniverse, since Marvel uses "multiverse" to mean so many different things. But you raised some very interesting thoughts about the QR. Love it!
These videos are amazing, it does really help make these things make more sense, and you have to wonder if Kevin Feige has to hold presentations like these to help the staff understand as well. :P That being said, it does make sense as long as you ignore Marvel's misuse of terminology and verbiage. In regards to Janet and the virus and when she branches, it kind of depends on what we're supposed to be looking at here. Assuming they do branch before Janet MCU and Janet WI go into the Quantum Realm, are they both appearing in the same place, or in different places? Because being in the same place would be impossible, they have to appear in different places. Either way, I think your explanation does help fix it, even if it does make the Watcher wrong about what he's saying...but oddly enough he already has been. The Captain Carter episode actually has a couple of differences even before he points out Peggy's choice, such as Agent Flynn being there, and the fact the various people, including Heinz Kruger, didn't go to the observation room. And as you pointed out with that interview with A.C. Bradley from your prior video, What If was made before a bunch of stuff was nailed down, so I guess we just have to get a bit fast and loose with stuff like how the Stone Crusher and Quantum Realm work.
A branch is an alternate reality from the time line. There are other time lines in the same universe. The universe is enclosed. When the branches touch other branches from a different universe we get an incursion. This is the multiverse
I'm not sure I entirely follow, but I'm down with any theory that works with all of the things we've seen in the movies and shows. I think what I laid out in the vid does that, but if you feel your theory does it as well, then I'm totally good with that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Today we're going to ask the question, What If? That would of been such a good intro. Ultimately I think Marvel really goofed when it comes to using these terms. Because now it's getting to the point of having multiverses within a larger "omniverse", which in my opinion is super messy. And then you add omniverse after I type that haha. Now if What If is just 'depicted' as animated whilst not being animated what about MG&DD? To further that question, what kind of universe is in The Marvels post credit scene do you think? The theory I speculated for the Janet conundrum is just that different universes access different layers ... but even that is messy. But the two timelines in one universe ... that's just as messy. Still a very good video, but I have this feeling What If S2 may throw another monkey wrench in the works.
LOL! Where you you while I was writing that intro! Love it Yeah, I had to go and mention the omniverse...oh my! But you know, this is all fitting together so well now. If only What If Season 2 can keep to the rules that are established. Please, please please! As for MG&DD, that's likely up to them to decide. My gut says it's an animated universe, but they could either way at this point. As for the Marvels, I suspect that will be an alternate universe as I suspect Monica's presence will start causing issues. Fun stuff ahead!
I would say Monica has either gone to the Fox X-Men universe, or one that's similar. That would cause an incursion, unless they treat it like No Way Home and just ignore that issue. The 2 other Peters seemed fine in 616, and I assume they're from Alternate Universes. Incidentally, Vulture and Venom seemed fine in their multiverse hopping. I wonder how long it takes to cause an incursion. I feel like they said something about that in MoM actually.
@@AbitofEverything4U i think that could be earth 10005 (aka fox x-men universe; the restored one frm the end of days of future past) and im thinking thats the same world as deadpool. Also fun fact: iman vellani also agrees with this so yayy
@@Jansenbaker I don't think they ever said. It was more of "your presence will erode the boundary between universes". But I wonder if that's really a thing for Strange since he travelled via Chavez' power.
@@Jansenbaker I think there's some wiggle room. 838 Reed said the more of an impact you have the greater the risk of an Incursion. Meaning if you don't leave a big impact if you keep to only leaving a small footprint only subtle influence...You might not cause any Incursion. That you can leave before negative consequences occur or even stay as long as you don't interfere in the course of history.
This is absolutely amazing, it explains to much. But I think that, in line with how the comics do it, since the movies and comics share the same (by these definitions) omniverse, the definitions be expanded. The Omniverse contains all universes, not just Marvel ones, the Marvel multiverse contains all Marvel core universes (those that have their own origin point), and the branches also exist, from those anchored points. This way, the comics can have their reality numbers including both branches and core universes, and the movies can do their silly little inconsistent thing with 616 instead of 199999 even though Across the Spider-Verse and the comics call it Earth-199999. My biggest problem I have with my proposal is the inconsistency of definitions, but I think that's gonna happen anyway with different writers for everything.
Yes, I definitely think you are right...the omniverse would indeed include the Spider-Verse, the Fox-verse, the Fantastic Four from the 2000's etc. Can't wait to see everyone cross over in Secret Wars. And yeah, the terms have been the biggest issue so far, but hopefully they can work on more consistency going forward.
Preach it! Man, the Arrowverse is confusing at times. It's alot of fun to watch, but trying to map out a timeline and understand how it all fits together is not an easy task!
Great video, i can't wait for season 2 of what if and I find it ironic that the two main people we know died for the soul stone have other versions of them end up in other universes. Little sad news but I got spoiled for the post credit scene of the Marvels involving Monica and you know who because of RUclipsrs putting you know who in their thumbnails and I was so ticked off when I saw that. Now I did hear supposed leaks and rumors about this post credit scene and the marketing didn't help but I still didn't know if it was actually true or not so yeah that happened and it sucks. I hope we see more of the universe where Black Widow got sent to it could have a very unique avengers team, also anyone else that comments under this please don't say who I'm talking about name I'm pretty sure there are still people that haven't seen the marvels yet.
Wow...that's a good point about the two characters that died from the soul stone existing in other branched universes off of 616. ofc, it wouldn't be the same character, as we've seen with how Gamora is completely different. But still, your point is very true! And so sorry about you getting spoiled about The Marvels. It's still an awesome movie, but it's much more fun to go in w/o knowing anything about the post credit scenes.
Woah you are wayyy smarter than me with this stuff. Everything you said in this video makes complete sense. I've been trying to piece together the "multiverse(s)" ever since Loki S1 and What If...? came out and I just couldn't make sense of it all. All these terms being used interchangably really confuses me haha
I agree...the biggest issue has been that the terms are being used so loosely. Hopefully they tighten that up abit as we head further into the multiverse saga. Really appreciate you watching and leaving your thoughts on the vid!
🎃My theory for the Zombie-outbreak: The quantum-realm is the basement to the 616-multiverse. In this realm, we can travel in time by traveling in space. I don't see why the branch can't happen in the quantumrealm. I think the branching/nexus is that Janet might have gotten sucked in by a time-vortex (as she warns not to do in AMaTW), and that this time-vortex sends her to a time (maybe far into the future) where the zombievirus has developed in the quantumrealm. But who knows...
I absolutely love it if this was the logic used by the MCU for the multiverse concepts. Only problem is Sylvie and the other Loki variants especially Alligator Loki being a branch from 616. And with the Deadpool 3 rumors of TVA being involved in some capacity, then this may not really be the case.
Great questions. So, on the Loki variant issue, I made a specific video on that, if you are interested: ruclips.net/video/nb91pLa9hIY/видео.html. I provide a few possible answers, but I personally love the chaos theory myself. As for Deadpool 3, we ofc have to wait and see what that movie reveals, but if I were to take a guess, DP's usage of Cable's time device will cause an incursion with 616 and get the TVA involved that way. But that's just a guess. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U great points. Deadpool really is a tricky situation as the time travel rules used in DP2 are currently conflicting with MCU rules (killing Baby Hitler in the past would not affect the future, yet that's basically Cable's arc in the movie)
I think what you said about the Ancient One splitting strange into two possibilities in one reality adds cadence to MTs theories about the energy of the universe being tied to magic and this being the glue to the foundation of the MCU . That scene also is consistent with Ant Man existing in one moment with multiple different possibilities at once when exposed to the multiversal core (the power source for the Heart of Forever) and what was established throughout Loki season 2 . The simple understanding being possibility or infinite possibility diverging then converging into perpetuity
@@AbitofEverything4U I mean doesn’t dark energy come from the Dark Dimension ? Didn’t Dr Strange and Clea go to the Dark Dimension to handle an incursion?
The nature of the Quantum Realm and the Infinity Crusher not working definitely feel like cases where the logic just wasn't communicated exactly or got misinterpreted and things fell through the cracks. Bound to happen when you've got enormous scale things like this, I think the best scenario is to accept it's an "8 years later" thing and move on as if it never happened. Sometimes the best answer to "why do these contradict?" is just "the creators made a mistake"
Right...I think in the case of the QR, it does whatever they want it to do. It's "outside time and space" and it functions in mysterious ways. And the infinity crusher is also a hand-wavy plot device, but I'm just rolling with it. As you said, you just gotta let some things go and enjoy the greater story. Excellent feedback!
@@AbitofEverything4U Absolutely, love your breakdowns! I think it’s great how you touch on the inconsistencies, if only to point out that sometimes they’re just mistakes.
For your quantum realm explanation, I think at this point it's easier to say that there is many quantum realms because they could just be referring to it as the basement of the 616 "multiverse" instead of the omniverse. That's my head Canon because the zombie episode makes sense that way and also labeling it as a 616 adjacent realm makes it seem unspecial and like there is not just one
Yeah, I've wondered if your suggestion is the answer...but I also have a theory that the Kang in QM isn't from 616's universe, and if that's the case, then there has to be one QR for the omniverse or Janet and Kang couldn't end up in the same QR. But I'm open to any idea at this point. The QR is uber-confusing!
tbh, I'm pretty happy with how What If shaped up for the most part. The infinity stone crusher and Janet's QR trip are both pretty hand wavy, but the rest of the series aligns really well with the overall multiversal rules. Fingers crossed that season 2 sticks to the rules that season 1 laid out!
Yeah, I agree, I bet the Watcher can change to different styles if he jumped between universes with unique reality stones (paint, cube, animated, etc). But, I also suspect that if the what if episodes are indeed branches off the 616 universe, then they would be live action since the branches would share the same core set of infinity stones. So that's why I'm theorizing that it's a creative choice for the show to be presented in animation, but that in actuality it is likely a live action universe. But just my theories. I wonder if they'll give us a clear indication in season 2? Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I prefer "Megaverse" to "Omniverse" for what you've described. To me "Megaverse" is a collection of multiple multiverses, while "Omniverse" is a collection of EVERYTHING. The Marvel Omniverse would include even the comics, for example, but the Marvel comic multiverse exists separate from the Marvel Cinematic Megaverse, so the thing that collects them both would be the Omniverse. On a side note, the fact that 616 is a multiverse, and then other separate universes make up their own universes, it makes me wonder whether Wanda destroyed all of the Darkholds in the 616 multiverse or all of the Darkholds in the Marvel Cinematic Megaverse. I would assume the latter, but it could go the other way.
Now be honest, if I had used megaverse you would have said you'd have rather I used omniverse, right? Just kidding. I'm down with megaverse...that makes sense. I really do hope Marvel starts to use terms that distinguish the 616 multiverse from the greater megaverse. Waldron did a great job of conceptually describing the difference between the two in that MoM Assembled quote, but now they need a term for each and need to start using it regularly. C'mon Marvel, please? And yeah, that's an interesting question about Wanda. I kinda suspect she did it for the entire omniv...er megaverse. Since she knew that 838 existed, she must therefore be aware of the megaverse, so yeah, I bet it was for the whole megaverse. Wild stuff!
@@AbitofEverything4U Lol, sorry to be difficult with my naming preferences! But I do agree on wanting better categorization and standardization from Marvel on these terms regardless!
(Minor S2 spoilers) So I guess the ending shot with Watcher and Peggy observing the tree sort of lines up with your theory lol. But one question is the shot before where he’s near some different structure that looks like a galaxy on its side…no clue what that’s supposed to be aside from the nexus of all realities or w/e it was called.
Yeah, that ending shot felt like it was a helpful confirmation of my Loki's tree theory. I'm working on my breakdown video of season 2 as we speak. As for that structure...your guess is mine as well...it seems to be a galaxy or maybe a black hole represented as light? Not 100% sure.
Yeah, the QR is a big mystery for sure. The only reason I like the idea of there being one for the multiverse (or should I say omniverse) is that my theory is that the Kang from QM was not originally from the 616 universe but is from an alternate universe. So, for him to appear in the same QR as Janet means there is one QR for the greater multiverse. But just my theory on that. I agree, the QR needs to be explained in alot more detail by Marvel.
In Multiverse of Madness we also see Strange and Ms America take on the aspects of the realities they travel to and through. I think that’s important too regarding people like Miles Morales if he was to come from the Sony animated universe . Sony deals with this concept different as many of the characters in the spiderverse films maintain their aspects when they traverse universes . It’s weird ..like Gwen Stacy’s universe is similar to Miles so idk maybe she maintains the aspects of her reality, maybe she doesn’t. Marvel studios I hope is more consistent with THESE rules . That way Miles could cross over and be Live Action. That would make sense considering what’s established in MOM.
@@AbitofEverything4U way for X Men animated characters and What If Characters to crossover if there is any confusion by members of the audience . I think this stuff has to be demonstrated a few more times for people to grasp
Yeah, the QR is a big mystery for sure. The only reason I like the idea of there being one for the omniverse is that my theory is that the Kang from QM was not originally from the 616 universe but is from an alternate universe. So, for him to appear in the same QR as Janet means there is one QR for the omniverse. But just my theory on that. I agree, the QR needs to be explained in alot more detail by Marvel.
Well …I think some episodes in WhatIf actually do take place in another coded universe . The Infinity Ultron episode it seemed like Infinity Ultron and the watcher were breaking into other realities tha are vastly different . Not as different as like the Fox X Men universe but vastly different than we’ve seen in the mcu at that point
Yeah, it's hard to know for sure what they are trying to tell us about what if's universes, but I suspect that every universe we see in it is ultimately a live action universe that is being shown in animated form. I may need to watch that Ultron episode again!
@@AbitofEverything4U I think that’s the right episode . It’s the episode where Infinity Ultron discovers the multiverse and comes face to face with the Watcher
This can then sorta explain the fox x-men stuff. When logan goes back he creates a branch from Earth 10005 (thts the fox universe) and that branch is the younger cast films. And then deadpool could even be the same way. And same goes for Tobey and Andrew and The Venom, morbius kraven universe (Earth 688) they are all their own worlds as well and now tobey and andrew presumably have a least a few branches of their own due to the villains being cured in NWH. Then stuff like the The 90s animated universe, and the various animated universes from spider-verse aren't branches, theyre their own separate worlds. What if (plus marvel zombies and spider-man: freshman year) are 616 branches so if you wanted a designation go with the variant designations: I.E. Loki is L1130 that is his branch: 1130 if they had pulled that steve who our cap fought he would be S1130 presumably. But here's a question that im curious about. From MoM we would assume that they changed form to fit the physics of whatever universe they're in. I.E. the paint, the blocks, the animated, etc. But in the spider-verse films we see Live action prowler in an animated world (unless the spider-verse stuff is the same idea as what if where its just a creative choice not an in-universe one) and we also see the animated spot enter the live action venom world.
Love that feedback. Yes, this model could indeed help explain the X-men universe, the Venom, Tobey and Andrew universes, and even stuff like the 90's animated universes. Well said! As for what we saw in MoM (changing to the physics of the universe you jump into) versus what we saw in ATSV (Prowler being live action in an animated universe) I would guess it has something to do with how they were brought into the universe in the first place. Perhaps America can safely bring you across universes and thus you take on the physics of the new universe, but for the villains pulled across in ATSV (like the Prowler...and to some extent the parchment Vulture in the opening scene) they didn't change physics as they were pulled in as a result of the collider incident. Just a guess on my part, but that could work, it seems. Anyway, love your feedback on the vid. Great stuff!
@@AbitofEverything4USomething minor I noticed from the first Spider-verse movie was that Miguel’s form changes when he’s in the 60s Spider-Man universe. Might’ve been because Miguel’s watch was a prototype or it got retconned later. Also, Kang’s form doesn’t change despite using technology. Would make for a good video idea
@@AbitofEverything4U yea that's true. i need to go a rewatch both spider-verse movies now (poor me 😁) and see if the art styles fr some characters change. I don't think for instance spider-ham changes or Peni Parker they both keep their own art styles (though that could be because they're already from animated existing universes so its not to disimilar from what they're already like) but also we should be aware of the fact that while they may connect those are still sony films firstly so they may just not work 100% perfectly within the rules of the MCU. But as fans, of course, we will MAKE them work whatever it takes
Also MCU Vulture’s inclusion in Morbius still confuses me to this day. Was it because of the nwh spell or the collider? We don’t see him glitch but maybe he does offscreen? Sony loves confusing people 😅
the quantum realm must be a vast subterranean network of sub basements, connecting in fractal like expansions to each branch/timeline/universe's own individual basement, with each one separated from the rest of the omniverse by a dense labyrinthine nexus/interchange that (at the quantum scale) places every one infinitesimally yet infinitely long and complicated a journey from its neighbour, with each successive neighbour exponentially further than the last. Which is why you need the multiversal engine core. To travel those vast distances between the universes and know exactly where you're going. Going between branches of the same universe is doable with great effort by modern MCU geniuses, only Kangtech makes it effortless with the tempad.
What do you think about the possibility that there is a quantum realm for each universe/multiverse? Meaning that time passes differently in all of the quantum realms (or doesn’t pass at all), but each multiverse has a different quantum realm? That would explain why they said that the quantum realm is the basement to the multiverse. Not sure, just an idea but I think it seems feasible if marvel is defining multiverse the same way you did
Yeah, the QR is a big mystery for sure. The one reason I like the idea of there being one for the multiverse (or really the omniverse) is that my theory is that the Kang from QM was not originally from the 616 universe but that he came from an alternate universe. So, for him to appear in the same QR as Janet means there is one for the greater multiverse. But just my theory on that. I agree, the QR needs to be explained in alot more detail. Thx so much for the excellent feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
So the Infinity Stones can basically always work as a sextett, but they do have some kind of timestamp, let's call it "reality stamp", that makes them unique. That makes perfect sense to me. Would be interessting what would have happen if Ultron had try to use Stranges timestone instead of his...
The incursions are another reason why it’s difficult to believe the Spider-Verse movies are actually tied to the MCU multiverse. Spider-People are constantly traveling to other universes in those films and yet incursions are never mentioned(also makes America Chavez’s power not so special).The closest things to the idea of incursions are the glitching and breaking canon events. But the idea of the glitching is moreso that it’s harmful to the outsider than the universe they are in. And breaking canon events is about stopping a certain important event than just being in that universe at all
I agree...it's really clear that the two companies aren't working together. That said, I wonder if the watch devices are what allow them to avoid an incursion and that without the devices the glitching is the start of an incursion? As for America, she still has a very cool power since she doesn't need a device to do the travel and instead can jump between universes with her own ability and she doesn't glitch and/or create incursions. So that's a win for her. Will be very interesting to see where they go with things in the future with any potential crossovers between the MCU and the Spider-Verse.
@@AbitofEverything4U I can see the headcanon that the devices prevent the incursions. But the downside to that is it makes the the incursions in the MCU movies frustrating for the viewer when you are thinking “these incursions wouldn’t be a big deal if these characters had the devices those Spider-People use”
Yeah, that's a good point. That said, it would be scary to think you have to always wear that device or create an incursion. I suspect they just visit together briefly and then return home. Wearing that thing 24 x 7 and counting on it keep you me glitching would drive me crazy, personally.
Personally I think a branch is something that follows the history of earth 199999 with little difference so what if captain Carter would be a branch since it doesn't change history in a major way while what of the avengers died during fury's big week would be a new universe since it dramatically alters 199999s history
Yeah, What If is quite the puzzler. Some of those changes were really major (like all the Avengers dying). But it seems like the Watcher is saying that the same rules applied for each new universe, since he ended up gathering the guardians of the multiverse together for that last episode. Maybe we'll get more info on how it all fits together when season 2 comes out. Really looking forward to it!
I think about it a lot and I believe that the tree is all the multiverse, not just 616 both events of Doctor Strange 2, spider man 3, and the post-credits scenes of The Marvels and Quantamania happened during Loki season 1 when the Branches split and for what if and kang the conquerer escaping from quantamania scene is after loki season 2 finale, the original plan was like you explain but now with Jonathan major court I believe that they change the hole plan to be the tree of life is the entire multiverse.
I had that same theory about when MoM, NWH and The Marvels was happening as I also thought it was right after Loki S1. However, we learn in Loki S2 that even though the branches are multiplying, the loom is still in place. We also learn from HWR that the loom will explode and reset back to the sacred timeline if there are too many branches. So after that, I no longer think MoM, NWH and The Marvels could happen until after Loki S2's ending. The loom prevented anything like those movies from happening. If you haven't seen my video on Loki's tree, you might check that out: ruclips.net/video/eabVqU1ar0s/видео.html. I discuss that point about the loom and how it seems that Loki S1 and S2 are back to back. I think that the Disney+ timeline would have split the seasons into two entries and placed them at differently locations in the timeline, if there was a gap between them. Anyway, that's just my theory. But all that said, we won't know for certain until Marvel releases a new timeline book that includes Loki S2 in it. So for now, all we can do is theorize. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Love reading alternate takes on the theories!
Definitely need that Harvard MCU lecture series. Maybe NYU though since everything in Marvel Comics happens in NYC. How are you really so knowledgeable? Are you an actual professor?
Oh my...I hope I don't sound too much like a professor...otherwise everyone will tune me out and play on their phones instead...lol! But you are right, I've found the best way to understand a story as complex as the multiverse saga is to lay out all the pieces on the table and then try to make them fit. My theories then have to be willing to evolve over time as new evidence is learned. I truly do love the MCU and I think the multiverse saga is fascinating. Can't wait to see where the story takes us from here!
If you'd like to join the discord server, here is a link: discord.gg/aboeMCU. There are over 900 members so far. Love to have you be part of the conversation!
All of this I find a great explanation (including being able to use different intinity stone but not destroy them and how Janet van Dyne contracted the virus). It's explaning everything that becomes difficult. I applaud you for doing so by making the video. But somehow I feel the writers _will_ play other places than 616 before Phase 6 is over.
@@Buffy8Fan Yeah, I'm really hoping the writers stick to this model. I mean, to their credit, it all works out very well. I didn't think there was a model that would make it all fit, but amazingly it does. So I do hope that they are operating under the same set of rules for future MCU entries. Fingers crossed!
@@AbitofEverything4UHey! Great, in-depth analysis of the multiverse as always!
What’s your next video on?
@@jackcapellini113 That's so funny, I was just working on the "teaser" for all of the 2023 year-end close out vids coming soon. Should be a fun time!
Can't wait till AboE starts teaching a 2-semester course at Harvard about MCU Astrophyisics.
LOL! Now that's a scary thought indeed!
I'd sign up for that class
Where do I sign up?
I’d happily sign up for it lol
Too funny, now look what you've done...I've got people signing up for the class already!
Janet’s Nexus Point didn’t happen inside of the Quantum Realm, but was the domino effect that allowed that variant of Janet to catch the disease in the Quantum Realm. You explained it pretty well, so give yourself credit bro! This makes me want to see What If again! 🍿🍿🍿
Yeah, I agree, this got me excited to watch S1 again and very excited for S2!
Maybe with the Infinity Crusher, it's because the technology was developed before it interacted with Ultron's stones? The Infinity Gauntlet that Tony made to use with the Time Heist stones was made after the stones were collected, so it could account for each stone's uniqueness (including that the stones came from 4 branches). But the Crusher wasn't designed for Ultron's stones - hypothetically, Tony's gauntlet also couldn't use Ultron's (or any other) stones
Oh...nice! I like that alot. Great theory!
15:55 calls the Infinity Stones “Time Stones” multiple times without realizing 😂
Ikr? I can't believe I did that. I caught it on the edit pass and was like, oh well, people will know what I mean. But yeah...big time oops!
I’m so happy and thankful at least you have the initiative to try and explain this for fans and the doing the studios job but watch the next up multiverse connect projects like Whatif s2/Deadpool disregard all of these “rules” just for the purpose of they stories they want to tell at that given time.
This is the biggest issue that’s killing any and all my enjoyment of the entire franchise at this point (and judging by fan and general audiences they’ve had enough) it’s having all these pieces of a jigsaw as rules slightly change every film/show one after another.
If even the hardcore fans have to use directors and writers explanations after the fact then how and why should general audiences care anymore.
Yeah, I agree, Marvel needs to do a better job of explaining the concepts behind the multiverse and being consistent with the terms. It does indeed hurt the excitement of both casual fans and even hard-core fans. Here's hoping things continue to improve in those areas as we move further into the multiverse saga!
Great video man, marvel should just share your videos any time someone asks them about how the multiverse works. Keep it up!
Thanks so much! I really appreciate that. All I know is it sure helps me to make these vids as it gets it all straight in my own head in the process! lol!
Great vid as always. Some thoughts I had.
- If there is heaps of variants of Janet throughout 616-adjacent timelines that branched before they entered the quantum realm than there is no physical way for them to have lived the same experience inside the quantum realm. They can’t be seperate Janets and then suddenly become one Janet when they go into the QR. This leads me to believe that branches actually go into different parts of the quantum realm which is consistent with “traveling between timelines” shown in Endgame, the timelines being in different locations physically in the QR. You could just say that the realm is so vast that there are similar locations outside every branch due to similar events happening in the real world just outside on each branch.
- The QR is outside of time but it also does have a linear flow of time. The fact that Kang was seemingly banished there “after” the death of He Who Remains and not before would imply that the history of the QR can be re-written right? Some of the problems I have with the MCU multiverse rules is that we have the benefit of seeing the effects of the multiverse play out in real time because that’s where we are up to in the story but for He Who Remains and now Loki the entire history of each branch exists all at once. If Kang only existed after the multiversal war then there has to be a version of the MCU where Janet goes into the QR and never experiences Kang at all. Is it possible that the entire MCU since Endgame has an altered history due to Kang being dumped into the QR. The events of Quantumania only happen because of the events of Endgame which is confusing in the sense of time because the TVA only pick up Kang from Quantumania during Loki S2 despite the entire timeline already existing for them in entirety. To me this implies that Loki and Kang have changed the MCU’s history and we are now watching an altered MCU chronology or depending on how you see it, how it was meant to play out before HWR subjugated it into one timeline.
- Where and when does the watcher’s hideout take place. If the Watcher, like the TVA can view the entirety of every branch, how can Ultron, even after becoming self aware arrive exactly at that point in the watcher’s chronology.
- The realms that exist outside of space and time (TVA, QR, the Watcher’s realm), seem to really just mean they have their own space and time so I struggle understand why when someone from the timeline enters one of these realms it is at the point of time in said realm that it is. It is fine from our perspective because we don’t think about it but from say the perspective of the Watcher why do events happen in the order that they do.
* The What If timelines are presented as branches of 616 by the watcher but some of the universes already are different. The Captain Carter universe already is clearly different before Peggy decides to stay in the room (maybe its a branch of a branch?) and what about absolute points? Doctor Strange in 616 doesn’t even have to lose Christine its his hands, if it was purely a branch then wouldn’t those rules also apply to the main timeline?
- If AOS is part of the multiverse then which one is it, a universe or a branch. The reason I never wanted it to he decanonised from 616 is because it doesn’t logically fit anywhere else due to the Age of Ultron tie-in. If it is a branch then how do you explain Fury getting the helicarrier in AOU exactly the same way. And if it branched after that then isn’t there an Inhuman Quake and a non-LMD living Coulson out there in the main MCU post-2015?
Wow...great feedback on the vid! Here are my thoughts:
- I agree 100% that each Janet in the QR goes into different parts of the QR. The QR is outside of space and time, so it's likely so big you would never run into your variants.
- On the flow of time, I think we just have to accept that Marvel is playing abit loose with cause and effect. So here is what I think they are saying happens.
1. Multiversal War occurs and Kang is banished
2. HWR wins the war and builds the loom.
3. In 1987, Janet enters the QR.
4. In 2009 (based on Peyton Reed interview for the year), Kang arrives in the QR (the QR is just plain weird...maybe Kang was trapped in a time vortex for a long time?).
5. In 2018, Janet escapes the QR
6. In 2023, time heist happens and Loki escapes
7. At the end of time, Loki and Sylvie encounter HWR and eventually the loom is shut down and the 616 multiverse branches out.
8. What If, MoM, NWH, etc all happen due to the loom being gone.
8. In 2026, QM happens and Kang is "killed".
Granted, that is very, very, VERY, timey wimey. But I think that's how they are having it play out.
- I assume the Watcher is at located at some some nexus of all realities that can observe the 616 universes and it is outside of time and space, sorta like the TVA. I think Ultron entered that nexus location in what was "present time" for the Watcher.
- I agree that it is weird how people entering the realms that exist outside of space and time (TVA, QR, the Watcher’s realm) manage to show up at "present time" for the characters in that space.
- I agree that the branch points for the What If episodes seem at times to be earlier than the point that the Watcher is stating. Not sure why that happens, but ig it's just how the story is being told.
- I think that Feige is calling AoS a branch off the sacred timeline, but the timeline book didn't make it 100% clear. As for the Helicarrier, my understanding in the sacred timeline is that someone else in SHIELD got it working again, so it isn't the same as what happened in AoS, even if the end result looked the same. Not saying I like that answer, but that seems to be how it happened.
Some of these things are just like the infinity stone crusher...Marvel is saying "that's just how it worked". I wish everything had a perfect answer, but I have found that as long as there is as much overall consistency as possible (such as with the rules of how a branched universe vs. an alternate universe works) then I'm fine with letting some of the smaller things go. Anyway, thx so much for your awesome feedback on the vid. Loved reading it all!
Perhaps these branches can also explain how we have a Comics 616 and a MCU 616. Perhaps the MCU and the comics simply two of the many branches of the same universe?
We can also explain away the Spiderverse having their own numbered system. Maybe Tom Holland’s 19999 and Peter B Parker’s 616 are in the same ‘616’ Universe, but in the Spider-verse they decided to gove them different numbers.
I'm thinking more that the Comics would be completely Alternate Universes...The rules of the MCU and Comics contradict too much. But if they're each separate Multiverses in an Omniverse then they can connect while also having different rules. Same with Sony Verse, Spider-Verse, Fox Verse etc.
Great feedback on the vid. So, what's interesting is that Feige has said that the reason he is fine with the MCU being 616 is he considers the MCU to be the live-action adaptation of the comics and thus they are both 616. I found that to be interesting as it at least explains why Feige wants it to be 616 so badly.
As for Miguel and 199999, I agree 100%. I think it's totally fine for Miguel to have a different numbering for the MCU as he came up with the number independently. So that works really well. Love your theory on that!
Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
@@flamesofchaos13 Totally agreed! Feige has said that the reason he is fine with the MCU being 616 is he considers the MCU to be the live-action adaptation of the comics and thus they are both 616. So I think your theory is spot on!
Great video as always - I'd love to see you talk about how the Spider-Verse and all their logic fits into this explanation of how universes work
So, I'm going to be very interested to see where they go with the Spider-Verse. Lord and Miller emphatically said there is no crossover with the MCU and all the references to it are only meta. But I suspect they were being coy and that there will be a crossover eventually. Thus, my theory is that the Spider-Verse is a set of alternate universes that are bound together with the Web of Life and Destiny. So that could indeed include 616 in that web. Not sure how that worked while the loom was in place, but perhaps it only became part of the web of life and destiny after the loom was destroyed? I agree, will be a fun topic to tackle in a video!
I want to chime in on the subject of the Nexus Point vs. Absolute Point concepts. A Nexus point is a choice, action or decision that leads to a new Timeline/Universe. Absolute points are circumstances in time that can't be altered whatsoever. Like mini loops within timelines that are fixed and impossible to change. You can't create a Nexus Event on an Absolute Point. Supreme Strange kept enduring the inevitable death of Christine, no matter how many times he tried. That just led to the destruction of that entire timeline. Nexus events create new timelines, but Absolute Points must happen or risk implosions. Think of an editor's typical timeline on a program, and imagine you just deleted a random moment in the middle, but instead of the timeline's bridging together, they just stay put. Now imagine, this timeline is a bridge, well then the whole thing is crashing down if a large chunk was removed in the middle. That is why Absolute Points must happen. There are points in time that not even the most amazing magic or tech can alter, so this is why those moments are absolute. If you can create a Nexus event, then that moment was not absolute.
Very well stated! Yeah, I think that's an excellent way to view absolute points vs. nexus points. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. Really enjoyed reading it all.
im really thankful marvel hasnt made the uses of the words "multiverse" "timeline" "branch" "dimension" "realities" not confusing at all :)
LOL...agreed...no confusion at all. Makes perfect sense!
Hey, man! Great video, as always! So, here's my theory on why the Stone Crusher didn't work, and it's really simple when you think about it: things, including the Infinity Stones themselves, change over time. Let me explain.
The first point is that we know that the 616 Stones are "almost" the same in every branch of the 616 multiverse, otherwise the Time Heist in Endgame wouldn't have worked and Ultron in What If wouldn't have been able to use them while fighting the Watcher across the various universes that they visited, and that's a fact. But it's also true from Loki and from What If that when a Nexus event happens, a new branched universe is created. But this does not destroy the original universe. The Sacred Timeline is still there, even after multiple branches are created off of it. That means that after it's been created, a branched timeline now lives independently from the "parent" timeline, with its own copy of the Stones and everything and everyone else in it and it can now develop in a totally different way, and we saw that happen multiple times in What If and in Loki.
Now, if branches can develop indepdently from one another, what's stopping us from thinking that the Stones themselves haven't changed in some way, maybe due to natural evolution, usage by magic users, or some other external factor? Even if you think back to the Infinity Saga, we've seen the original six Stones being manipulated in ways that "changed" them in some way, by changing their physical form (for example, think of the Reality Stone being turned from a solid object into liquid form by Malekith in Thor 2) or by changing their properties (think of the Mind Stone being used to essentially power up a robot, with Vision). This means that within the same multiverse, in this case the 616 multiverse, the Stones are fundamentally the same everywhere, in the sense that they all share the same laws of physics and fundamental "DNA", but beyond that, they're just objects like any other, that can be used, misused, changed or even destroyed.
This allows them to be used in a different universe, because they are all 616 Stones and they follow the same fundamental rules, but as concrete, physical objects they can have different properties or exist in different states, depending on what happened to them in that specific universe. So maybe the reason why the Stone Crusher didn't work in that instance is because it was created with the Stones as they appear in Gamora's original universe, but, essential properties aside, they could have been in a totally different form from the Stones that they actually used the machine on. It's like when you tune an instrument into a particular key: the basic musical notes are the same, and you can play them in the same sequence each time, but you'll get a different song in the end. I hope this makes sense!
Also, thank you for including my suggestion about using the word "omniverse" to indicate the collection of alternate universes. I agree that it's not an official term, but I think we can use it if it makes things clear to understand for us. This makes it much clearer when we say, for example, that America Chavez's unique power is that she's the only being who can travel the omniverse, while everyone else is confined within their own multiverse. Maybe if we use it enough we can even manifest it into canon one day haha! Keep up the good work!
Awesome explanation for the stone crusher. That makes a ton of sense. And I love your idea of using the term omniverse. That was an excellent suggestion you made earlier. And you are right, it does indeed let us describe America's powerset alot more easily. Great stuff!
Something interesting in What If…? is that there are more divergences than the ones we focus on. When Infinity Ultron is destroying planets, he kills the Guardians who are defending the batteries even though that takes place a year prior in the main universe
Good point...yeah, that does seem to imply there was an earlier branch in that universe with the Guardians. Nice call!
Amazing description on this topic.
Thanks! Yeah, this sure helped me get it all straight in my head...and it makes me all the more excited for What If Season 2!
the term Omniverse has been used by Marvel before to encompass every reality that can be imagined. They specifically name star wars and a bunch of other things, even fanfictions and ideas that only exist in your head. If you can imagine it, it's part of the omniverse.
Nice! I wonder if I should instead use megaverse for the MCU and Omniverse for the even bigger picture.
I 100% agree that What If isn't necessarily animated, and that was just how they chose to show it (because it was probably easier) but as far as MCU canon, it hasn't been. At least to me. The only canon animated universe was in Dr Strange MoM, because we saw Captain Carter. Granted, she may not be from the exact same universe we saw in What If, but I still feel that the medium we're shown, doesn't necessarily mean the actual end all be all of what is true. I also say this because it helps me take Love and Thunder more seriously if I'm watching it from Korg's viewpoint rather than what actually happened.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see whether What If starts to connect with 616 more directly as we get closer to Secret Wars. I tend to think that might happen. And yeah, totally agree on L&T. I like it alot better if I think of it as being retold by Korg, who made it sillier along the way. Nice call!
During Season 1's run, I typed up The Watcher's MCU wiki page from each episode, I definitely look foward to doing it again for this season.
The reason why was the same reason you liked the show, because of how fantastical and unique it gets, and Wright's performance as Uatu.
Oh how cool...I didn't know you did that for the wiki. Thanks for your work on that...love that wiki so much! And I'm very stoked for season 2. Gonna be a fun ride!
This video is about where What If fits within the MCU Multiverse.
It’s not a review on why the show is good.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios No worries...Any comments people want to leave are good with me. I just love to hear what fellow MCU fans are thinking about.
Definitely my new favorite channel. Ive never hit subscribe so fast
Thanks so much...really appreciate that. Had alot of fun putting this video together!
Marvel Comics does use the term onniverse as a catch all of ALL existing multiverses. Mostly in stories involving Captain Brittain. The MCU hasn't used the term yet but it's the level the Living Tribunal works on and we know he's been to 616 at some point.
Good point! Yeah, I do wonder if we'll get that omniverse term used soon. Can't wait to see the Living Tribunal get involved in things at some point!
19:54
One Quantum Realm, but just like Scott's probability storm in Quantumania, it is entirely feasible that Janet's multiple possibilities coexist in the Quantum Realm. Remember, the Quantum Realm itself is a singular location, but it's also likely infinite in size and the individuals within the Quantum Realm can very easily be caught up in places that split them or earlier branching decisions cause a different Janet to go into the Quantum Realm and that Janet contracted the zombie virus.
Basically, just cause you can't cause another full timeline to branch off in the Quantum Realm, doesn't technically mean that an alternate choice or experience in the Quantum Realm can't rejoin the Timeline and create a branch. The Quantum Realm is weird like that.
One Quantum Realm, multiple Janets.
Love that explanation. Totally agree!
This is starting to almost sound like Steins;Gate logic, where you have an alpha, beta, etc. groups of different timelines. 616 might be something like the alpha world line. Except that in Steins;Gate, only one timeline is ever active.
Very cool analogy with Steins;Gate...yeah, I think this MCU multiversal model is fascinating and really lets Marvel go to town with Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars down the line!
Sometimes, I really don't envy your job lol. I don't have thousands of people expecting me to figure out how the MCU works, I just have fun theorizing as well as working off of what other people come up with for my own pleasure. Figuring out What If is not fun for me, so I've never even cared to try. I have so many problems with that show not making sense in so many different ways that I refuse to even consider it canon in my own mind until something prevents me from being able to take that approach. I appreciate you being willing to tackle it. Great video.
I know what you mean about What If seemingly being so loose with the rules. It made it hard for me to enjoy the first season, tbh. That said, after looking at it in respect to the multiversal model in this vid, it suddenly made me respect season 1 alot more. It still has a few things that make me wince (the infinity stone crusher being right at the top of that list), but overall, the show does seem to fit well in the overall model. I'm cautiously optimistic for Season 2...fingers crossed they don't go too wild on us this time around!
Thank you for making a video about this!
You are very welcome...had alot of fun putting it together!
Your channel is really refreshing. Thanks for being the MCU Teacher. 🍎
Thanks so much for the kind words and positive feedback. I just hope I'm not as boring as some of my teachers in school...otherwise everyone will be playing on their phones instead of watching the vid...lol!
@@AbitofEverything4U you’re welcome! Thanks for being so inspiring and informative in a non-boring way!
😊
I didnt even thought I needed so much clarification on this topic. I always just roughly thought "it will fit somehow" but this video was so interesting and made so much more clear! Thank you!
Cool! So glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for making a full video on this. Great right before season 2.
Like you said, not going to think too much about it or parse every word like I have with Loki, but this was a nice comprehensive video to watch.
I like how you reminded us that America doesn't cause incursions. It has me wondering what type of being she is. Is she a part of every universe? I'll have to look more into her comic book origins in depth. They can do some really cool things with that character.
So excited for the return of Strange Supreme. The end of his episode where he is saying he is sorry is one of my favorite MCU moments, love the music in the background. It is interesting knowing that last we saw him, he was in the same position as Loki, he was so fixated on saving Christine, much like Loki was fixated on his throne, that he caused lots of destruction, but was able to redeem himself by sacrificing himself to indefinitely contain Zola and Killmonger to protect the Multiverse.
I agree...I love Strange Supreme. That final line of his was so amazing. And that's a great analogy regarding his fate and Loki's fate. Can't wait for Season 2 to drop!
Watching this during my break, thanks for making black friday not so hellish!
Niiiice! Glad the vid could help the day pass by faster!
I literally paused the video right before you started talking about the omniverse, I had a whole paragraph including the definition, but I can summarize what I really wanted to say as that I think that the Beyonder is someone capable of doing what Loki did in the finale but with separate multiverses and not just universes and I would not be surprised if that is what Secret Wars goes into. The fact that you are going that far continues to prove that Marvel needs to have you on their team.
Great point about the Beyonder being able to do what Loki did but across separate multiverses! Yes, I think that's where things are headed with Secret Wars. Can't wait to see it all play out!
when people try and tell me the time mechanics in the MCU dont work i always push back because if you really understand it its the best iteration ive seen in my opinion
I agree...I really like how Marvel has laid out the time mechanics rules in the MCU!
In my timeline I place each episode after the events that inspired the Watcher to view the alternate timeline so obviously episode 1 after the first avenger
Then episode 2 in 2008 between Iron Man 1 and 2 because that's when it happens and it has to be seen before episode 3 which comes directly after the first avengers movie even though its based on fury's big week... however at the start of the episode we see its actually the first avengers move that inspires the watcher to view this specific timeline.
Then obviously episode 4 after doctor strange, episode 5 after both infinity war and the AoS season 5 episodes that occur around Infinity War
Episode 6 directly after Endgame but before Loki as a dual tribute to Chadwick Boseman and the Tony Stark character, then I have Loki after episode 6 to explain why there's a multi verse (and obviously it comes after Endgame anyway)
And then directly after Loki it's the final 3 episodes which I have dubbed "the Ultra-Vision Trilogy" 😂
Also, from the way i view it the events of Loki occur outside of time where everything on the timeline is happening all at once from the TVA's perspective... so anything set in another timeline can be placed either after Loki or when it actually occurs respective to the main MCU timeline.
I like that alot! Very cool how you lay out that timeline. I think it makes a ton of sense. Thanks for sharing it. Loved reading it all!
Thank you for sharing your research!
My pleasure...thanks so much for watching!
People want Marvel to take a break. I think they actually need to produce more content reiterating the time travel and multiverse rules . They should have 4 or 5 more projects in the next two years where characters are confirming the rules . I hope WhatIf season two is more in line with the rules established in Loki, No Way Home, MOM, and The Marvels . I know the first season was partially done when they were writing Loki.
Yeah, hopefully with each new entry that the MCU continues to reinforce the rules. I think it's important that they makes things really clear going forward. Well said!
Im so stoked about the What If season 2. Season 1 was so good
I agree...it looks amazing. And to get each episode in a row for 9 days will be insane!
@@AbitofEverything4U We don't have to wait weeks for the next episode like Loki season 2
Ikr? Christmas comes early with that release schedule!
I think Janet could've branched herself from the sacred timeline for pretty much any reason before entering the Quantum Realm, and the timing of where she just happened to be, even by a few seconds, caused her to get exposed to the zombie virus, whereas the sacred timeline's Janet just barely missed it. Or maybe that Janet never met Kang or any of the people from that civilization (otherwise they'd remember meeting two Janets), so she had a completely different adventure, and contracted the virus as a result.
The idea that What If all takes place in branches off of 616 makes sense, as far as how the Watcher explains how the different universes get created, and explaining how people can travel between those universes without creating incursions. But you really have to stretch an explanation for why the Infinity Stones are different. So I think we'll have to wait and see if the rules get explained further in Season 2.
Good suggestions for how to solve the Janet issue. I like those. And I agree...I'll be watching What If S2 very closely to see if the rules still all apply!
It's funny. The way the "time travel" was initially explained in Endgame made it sound exactly like Dragon Ball, but then Loki Season 1 made it sound like they were waving off the idea for simplifying Branches to being anything at all (say, X Men or Blade branches) but the way you explain it sounds a lot more like Dragon Ball all over again, just scaled up.
In dragon ball, for example, Trunks in the Cell Saga comes from the future, but not THE future, an alternate future, where 2 androids are causing mass chaos and his mother, Bulma, invented pretty much the exact same solution as Tony Stark, so Trunks comes from that alternate future to help the timeline we follow from getting to that point, but Trunks' home is still ruined. He still gets to stop it from having more harm done to it, but he has to live with those consequences.
Then Dragon Ball Super defined 7 different universes, where things could generally be very different, like the Sayians existing in one right next to the regular Dragon Ball timeline but having been the polar opposite of the conquerors that Goku and Vegeta were born from (and then generally everything else being very weird and alien like pizza balls in Multiverse of Madness)
There's a few differences like the MCU assumedly having more than 7 general universes or way more than only 3-4 alternate timelines but that's why I say it's scaled up.
There are multiple futures in the Comics...Multiple versions of 2099 and Age of Apocalypse and Days of Future Past and Earth-8 and Kang's Home Reality etc are all Alternate Futures of Alternate Realities. 2099's being the Futures for Peter B Parker's E-616 the Main Timeline, Earth-8 for Spider-Gwen's E-65, Age of Apocalypse being Apocalypse the First Mutant winning, Days of Future Past being that Dark Anti-Mutant Future, OG Kang comes from the Future where Nuclear Warfare occurred and Space Colonization, There's other Alternate Futures of various Post-Apocalypses and a few Paradises.
There's an Infinite number of realities the Gods have stated such. The biggest number designation is Earth-28744923048932. But the number system doesn't start at 0 or 1 it starts at Earth-001 (Center of the Web of Life and Destiny/Homeworld of Gods) then there's an Earth-1.
Also there's non numbered or numbered differently realities that are given alternate titles such as Earth-Del-Iader-Byshire, Earth-X-Ian-49, Framework, Mojoverse, Styrakos, Earth-P-1837, Earth-616B.
Then there's Earth-616 Beta which is called an Anomaly Reality that is said to exist outside the Web of Life and Destiny which equals the Entire Multiverse in the Comics.
Also Earth 42 from Spider-Verse is 100% new content. There was never a previous Earth 42 shown...That is the only Earth 42. Only now is it being showcased then everything indicates it's a branched timeline of Miles 1610B's reality.
Oh wow, that's cool about how Dragon Ball did their time travel. I didn't know any of that. Thanks for sharing that!
@@flamesofchaos13 Okay, I'm blown away by your comics knowledge. I knew some of that, but not all of that. Wow!
Brother, I've been watching your breakdowns of the MCU timeline since a few years. Love your work. Keep it up.
Okay, I've been meaning to get my message to you for a while now. It's regarding the Ms Marvel timeline placement. Fans have been fighting over whether it's around June 2025 (because of Eid) or September 2025 (because American school year starts in Sept) in the MCU.
As a Muslim myself, let me clarify this dispute on its placement. First, there are two Eids in Islam. Eid-ul-Fitr (the lesser Eid) and Eid-ul-Adha (the greater Eid) (pronounced Eid-ul-Azha). Both Eids are celebrated for three consecutive days respectively.
Secondly, the Muslim calendar is different from the Zodiac calendar. Both consist of 12 months but the Muslim calendar starts in Muharram and ends with Duh Al-Hijjah (pronounced as "Zu al-Hijjah). Each month begins at the time of the new moon.
The Muslim months in chronological order:
Muḥarram, Ṣafar, Rabīʿ al-Awwal, Rabīʿ al-Thānī, Jumādā al-Awwal, Jumādā al-Thānī, Rajab, Shaʿbān, Ramaḍān, Shawwāl, Dhū al-Qaʿdah, and Dhū al-Ḥijjah. The "Dh" and "Th" are basically the "Z" and "S" in Arabic.
Thirdly, the lesser Eid occurs on the first day of Shawwal, and the greater Eid somewhere in the last month of the Islamic calendar. So, the lesser Eid is around March 30 in 2025 and the greater Eid is around June 6 of that year.
Ms Marvel's co-creator (both the comic's and the show's) Sana Amanat Ali has specified that Kamala celebrates the greater Eid in the show. But the show itself says that the characters are celebrating the lesser Eid (which is at the end of Ramadan and the beginning of Shawwal)
This without a doubt places it in May-July 2025 timeframe but still leads to further confusion because of the school year.
I leave the rest at your hands, brother.
Wow...that info that you shared was awesome! One thing I really loved about the Ms. Marvel show was how much I got to learn about Muslim culture. I honestly knew nothing about the Partition and while I knew of Ramadan, I didn't know about the two Eid celebrations. I felt the show was an amazing way to teach non-Muslims like myself about the beauty of the culture, religion, and beliefs. Kudos to the writers and directors for their work on the show!
Regarding the Eids, following the end of the show I did start to try to learn about the Eids and when they take place in 2025 (the year of the show). So my research shows that in 2025, the dates are Eid ul-Fitr in March/April and Eid ul-Adha in June. As you pointed out, there is a brief, but important, dialogue where Bruno says "Eid again" and Ms. Marvel mentions it is the "lessor Eid". But what I learned about Sana Amanat is that she put in her own inside joke, which is that she always felt the second Eid wasn't as fun because they don't get presents. That's why Kamala says that. So the Eid being celebrated is the second Eid, which would place the show in June, 2025.
However, so many internal clues indicate it is really in September, such as Fall/Beginning of the school year related posters at school (voting for Homecoming Queen), a September 9th date on a poster, in Ep 3 Bruno has a September calendar displayed at the Circle Q, Kamala hasn't taken the SAT or submitted college applications, and Kamran is a transfer student which wouldn't make sense at the end of a school year.
Lastly, the timeline book places the show in Fall, 2025, so my guess is that Sana wanted the show to be the beginning of Kamala's junior year but also wanted the show to feature an Eid celebration due to the importance of that event to Kamala's family. Thus, why it's place in Fall, 2025 yet features the second Eid celebration.
Thank you so much for your amazing comment and for taking the time to share all that additional history that I wasn't aware of. Again, loved the show and I also absolutely adored Kamala in The Marvels. Iman is a national treasure!
I just see it as there are two different variants at the same time (or close to) in the quantum realm. One from 616 (or 199999) and the other one from a branched timeline. I was just thinking like you did; there must have been an event that occured before Janet (What If's Janet) got stuck in the quantum realm, creating a new branch. That way it is possible that there were two Janets in there at the same time and that What If's Janet landed in a different place where she caught the virus, hence why our Janet didn't become infected.
Right...I agree 100%. It seems like that would work out perfectly. Thx so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I also think the "branching" could have happened in the quantum realm, similar to how there were two timelines present in one universe in the Doctor Strange episode. In fact, maybe the Ancient One's spell was based on scaling up the properties of quantum particles. In quantum mechanics, it is known that for tiny particles, multiple states of existence occur at the same time. It's only when we observe them that only one possibility manifests. If you extrapolate this to the quantum realm in Marvel, maybe multiple "realities" are constantly forming in the quantum realm, but they all co-exist (kind of like Scott being multiplied in the probability field). There is only one quantum realm for the entire 616 multiverse, but there are multiple realities co-existing in that quantum realm.
Maybe when Janet got trapped in the quantum realm, she was duplicated, and one of the (many) versions of her was infected by the zombie virus. But it wasn't until that version of Janet re-emerged into the regular world that a branched timeline formed.
@@Micoke12 I like that...that could definitely work!
I have a theory to explain Zombie Janet.
The Quantum Realm is the multiverse's basement, right? It spans the entirety of every branch and universe, just underneath the surface. So I think both Janets were in the same Quantum Realm, just far, far apart from one another. Prime 616 Janet landed in a habitable place in the Quantum Realm, as that was the part of the realm that was adjacent to her timeline. Following the basement metaphor, she landed in a part of the basement that's underneath the kitchen.
Meanwhile Zombie Janet (who was maybe already on a branch or got shrunken down at a slightly different place) landed in a part of the Quantum Realm where the zombie virus was present. She landed in a part of the basement underneath the bathroom.
Both Janets (and possibly more variants of her) lived in the Quantum Realm at the same time. The Quantum Realm is so large that it spans the entire multiverse, so any alternate Janets would never cross paths and go back to their respective universes without suspecting a thing.
I like that...great explanation!
I'm excited to see how they bring everything back together. The reality of copyrights has created this mess of different content by different companies and since Disney and Kevin Feige are bringing everything into the same universe, they're finally able to expand to film! After the infinity saga, it's clear that when someone has a vision, they can make something great, and the possibilities are endless!
Well said! Yes, it will be so awesome to have all of the characters under one roof soon. It really expands the possibilities for where things can go from here with the MCU. So exciting!
Honestly I feel so lucky to have seen the birth of the MCU. I remember when my stepdad bought Iron Man in 2008, and I saw Thor in 2011, I had no idea. When I went to see infinity war in theater, I didn't know they were all connected, but omg I was so ready for Endgame after I had my eyes opened to the connectivity of the 20+ films! That's why I loved Loki and think if they have a plan, the story will work out.
I agree 100%...I think Feige has a plan for what to do when he finally has all the toys to play with and I can't wait to see what he has in store for us!
It must be incredible for him to have lived his whole life to become the one with the opportunity to bring the Marvel heroes together in film. I can't imagine anything as fulfilling. It seems like it was written for reality to line up with Disney buying all of the properties back and Feige rising to lead Marvel
Ikr? I bet he loves what he's doing...even on the hard days, it has to be so much fun!
I love how this is explained like a college lecture.
Thanks...I have indeed been referred to as the Khan Academy for the MCU. I'm down with that, as long as I'm not as boring as some of my teachers were...lol!
A perfect video before What If Season 2!!! I really like What If, especially I am so excited to see again Supreme Strange and Wanda! I think that we will have so much fun 😊❤ Absolutely such a great Christmas gift 🎉 Thank you so much for the explanation
I agree...I'm very excited about What If season 2. Should be awesome!
The creative choice makes production of multiple plots involving the same core characters easier and quicker in comparison than shooting live action films.
Well said...I agree 100%!
Your video was fun, and you delved into some intricacies and minute details that I believe the writers of "What If" might not have considered.
Thanks so much for the positive feedback on the vid. Yeah, it was alot of fun trying to put all the pieces together regarding What If. Makes me all the more excited for season 2 coming soon!
i love how this guy is literally a MCU FAN, he even mentioned Fitz (AoS) in the video..
Love that explanation from Fitz...the entire Season 7 was amazing, but I about jumped off the couch when he dropped those lines. I was like "that's how they should have explained it in Endgame...go Fitz!"
All happening in 616 makes so much sense!
616 (+branches) being called a Multiverse and also being part of a Multiverse is hardcore confusing though
Hence why the terms Megaverse and Omniverse should be used. Multiverse a Universe (+branches), Megaverse the collection of Marvel Brand Multiverses, Omniverse = Everything in existence including the Real World.
Yeah, I agree...I wish they didn't call 616 and its branches a multiverse, but then again, I don't know what would I would have recommended that they collectively call it. I mean, technically speaking, it is a multiverse, but just not how we would normally think of it. I hope they find better terms going forward, as that's one of the biggest points of confusion right now. But I'm still really excited to see where things go from here. What If S2 looks great!
@@flamesofchaos13I totally agree...I hope they start using those terms soon!
@@flamesofchaos13 love those terms, they would make it so much better to understand
@@mayo4660Totally agree!
Thought about this a couple mins into the video: if the “cosmic forest” of a multiverse is the true vision for what the multiverse is meant to look like in the context of the MCU, I think it’s similar to the multiverse of Rick and Morty. When watching the episode, “The Ricklantis Mixup”, there are multiple anchorman ricks that seem to originate from the same but slightly altered universes with their monikers being a only a letter off from one another. This implies that there are multiple realities that have to same basic rules applied to them with multiple histories erupting from them. This parallels what is thought to be in the MCU. I expect that when we see the TVA again, they will instead be denoting realities with a ETH-616X designation, displaying the differences in the branches. Weird theory but it seems kinda cool.
EDIT: There is also a device that holds the sacred universes together in both, in the MCU we have the loom and in Rick and Morty we have the Central Finite Curve.
Good point! I am not surprised at all that there are similarities with Rick and Morty, since both Waldron and Loveness worked on that show. I think it gave them alot to consider as they crafted the MCU multiversal model.
I didn’t even realize that about Waldron and Loveness. It’s so cool to think that these projects came from wildly different places and still ended up influencing one another.
ikr? Very cool!
I kind of think that whether we like it or not, What If is in another universe just by the fact that it is animated, BUT the same events can still take place in the live action universe
I definitely had that concern about What If being animated, but as I mention in the vid, we've seen lots of creative choices on the presentation of MCU entries. I am Groot is part of the live action universe but the series was shown in photo-realistic animation. GotG is part of the live action universe, but had cartoon flashbacks in the GotG HS. And WbN is part of the 616 color universe, but was shown in B&W. So ig for me, it isn't an issue that What if is in 3D animation. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Love the dialogue with fellow MCU fans!
In relation to Janet contracting the virus and the other Janets didnt.
The Quantum Realm is massive and endless. The other Janets are likely to never be in that area of the realm.
Yeah, that would work as well. I think that's a good theory!
@@AbitofEverything4U also. When the animated universe Janet goes to the Quantum Realm. Does she stay animated or turn live action ? lol
Oh wow...now THAT's a good question...definitely above my paygrade! lol!
21:58
It is worth pointing out that this exception probably isn't as strange or insane as it sounds like considering that the Dark Dimension is specifically a place without time. The Ancient One using any sort of temporal manipulation based in the Quantum Realm or physics as the MCU understands it would've created a branch timeline that magic likely wouldn't be able to reach as every timeline branch we see is only ever reached via scientific means or Time Slipping (to my recollection). But by drawing on magic which siphons energy from other dimensions, like the Dark Dimension (which we know can grant the channeler massive control over fractal realities such as the Mirror Dimension) and using it to mirror Stephen Strange's choices allows for Stephen to be split without any effect on time's path, and thus without the creation of a split timeline.
Excellent point! Yeah, the Dr. Strange story was a very funky episode, but I liked it alot and I agree, dark magic could indeed do something that the quantum realm couldn't. Well said!
Also, with America, you said she can safely travel the multiverse. I agree. I think that because she's the only incarnation and that no other universe has her, she is safe. Sort of like how Spiderman No Way Home pulled the villains in, if no other universe ever has America, no matter what she does, there's no other universe related to her, so she has what we'd call, an "Out of jail free" card.
Edit: Should have listened to everything you said first, but yes, i agree
Very well said...I think that explains America Chavez perfectly. She's a really cool character and I can't wait to see what role she'll play going forward!
I feel like the way marvel has this set up is that the general multiverse theory is used in forming the different big bangs and the creation of the infinity stones. Where every universe is its own pocket like 616 and 838. And then inside those universes there is the branches, which relates more to the many worlds interpretation from quantum mechanics.
This is in line with your theories. I think marvel drew inspiration from these two multiverse theories and combined them into 1.
When are they just gonna explain it... Maybe in Deadpool 3?
I like how you described that. Yes, I could see some of these being pocket universes. That's a cool way to view it. And you ask a fantastic question...when will someone (maybe Selvig?) get in front of a chalk board and draw this all out. We need that sooooo badly!
@@AbitofEverything4U I feel like the best way out of this is a scene similar to hulk in endgame explaining the time travel rules and I see it going somewhat like this:
There would be a group of characters discussing some impending doom on the multiverse and someone will say "wait, so there is a multiverse?" To which someone like Hulk will call back to endgame and say "Yes, for every action we make our timeline splits into every possibility creating new universes that branch off from ours."
Then strange will come in and say "But I was once in a universe where I was made of paint.. how did a single choice lead to me being paint?" To which they will theorize that there must be other timelines out there with their own set of rules and their own set of branches. And that that must be where all the Kangs came from.
Idk I'm just writing fanfiction here now LOL. good video as always though!
I love it...make it happen, Marvel...please!
I have 2 potential ideas for the whole Quantum Realm stuff both of which could be developed more in depth.
1) The Quantum Realm could be infinite/near-infinite and repeating in space with each universe having its own part '616 adjacent' could refer to a specific area of it. This is based off of a theoretical idea where in a large enough universe - and the fact that there is only a finite way atoms and the like can be ordered - chances are you could find someone identical to you and somewhere identical to Earth.
2) Quantum shenanigans 🤷♂️
Love both explanations! The second one is 🔥!
Theory. The what if series is in universe 617. The reality stone has to be different for animation, where all the others are the same. In a infinite in the omniverse that has to be possible. The animation in GOTG Christmas special, they were either showing the 617 universe sacred timeline or they were just doing a special bit for Christmas.
The 617 explanation would cover any animations in a cannon way.
And the omniverse already exsist in the mcu due to its concept. What I think you are referring to is the megaverse. The omniverse would have to include DC and other properties. . . With that being said you know more than me.
Also the quantum realm might be 616.XX specific so it would still connect the multiverse of 616 but not of 617 so Janet's there are more likely to be infected when going into the "basement" of their multiverse. I could be jannet van dyme being the second most pruned individual for not following their set path in the quantum realm and when she leaves she gets pruned then.
And your theory still works. When 617 God of Stories loki makes the multiverse of 617, what if can happen after that.
Good call on using the term megaverse instead of omniverse. I like that idea. As for What If, I'm totally down with Marvel making it a different universe from 616. That said, I think the timeline book seemed to indicate that it was branches off of 616. The animation style isn't an issue, due to there being other examples of creative choices to show things in animation that are actually live action, such as the flashbacks in the GotG HS. So I personally like it being branches off 616, but if Marvel goes with your 617 idea, I'd be fine with that as well. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
This clears up a lot in preparation for season 2!
I agree...this honestly made me alot more excited for season 2. Can't wait!
Maybe jumping between universe creates intertwined branches between 2 universes which could explain Reeds explanation about the boundaries being eroded
Good call! I like that explanation!
I view the numerical designations, like 616, as not referring to a single main universe and branches, but more like a spectrum. Kind of like the light spectrum, there are essentially infinite frequencies, but we refer to a group of them collectively as something like red. Red doesn’t refer to a single wavelength of light, it refers to an infinite number of very similar wavelengths. The multiverse is similar, at least in my opinion. 616 is not a single timeline, but a spectrum of different events and nexus points that exists simultaneously with each other.
That's a cool way of looking at it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
All the hand wavy explanations are genuinely mildly infuriating lol
This video as always is very well explained and spoken! Lets hope What If s02 manages to fit within the established rules so far, or explains some of these things just a little bit more like you lol
Yeah, fingers crossed that WI S2 follows the same rules. I mean I do think Marvel ultimately put alot of thought into it as the rules have been surprisingly consistent. What I think Marvel hasn't done a good job at is explaining it all. We need Selvig at a chalkboard drawing a model of the multiverse and we need it now!
I personally didn’t think it’s so hard to follow. If you even notice. The movies have been dealing with alternate universe and different realms and dimensions while the Disney plus shows have only dealt with timelines so far.
Oh wow...that's an interesting point! Very cool observation!
Loved the Loki Tree video.
I like the Janet theory except it doesn't really answer how the difference seemingly happens in the same Quantum Realm.
I wonder, could the "Quantum Realm" just be a repeated space?
I wonder how the QR works between Alternate Universes?
We assumed that interview was talking about it being the basement between places like 616 & 838.
What if it's instead the basement of the Tree, and that's why it's "616 adjacent realm"?
Every branch universe gets a copy of its parent's QR, and each AU has its own QR.
Edit: OK, Just remembered Kang presumably wouldn't be copied, so we go to a twist off the original idea.
The Tree has the QR, and it touches all the branches, but it doesn't extend to fellow Alternate Universes.
Who knows, maybe the other AUs don't have QRs.
So, the Janet theory is that whatever additional environmental factor she encountered outside the QR made her more susceptible to the virus. Thus, no other Janet would contract it as they didn't encounter the environmental factor. It's almost like a different person entered the QR in that universe. But yeah, just a reach to try to explain it. I do like they way you are thinking about the QR and the multiverse. It's hard to tell if it is one QR per multiverse or one QR per omniverse, since Marvel uses "multiverse" to mean so many different things. But you raised some very interesting thoughts about the QR. Love it!
These videos are amazing, it does really help make these things make more sense, and you have to wonder if Kevin Feige has to hold presentations like these to help the staff understand as well. :P
That being said, it does make sense as long as you ignore Marvel's misuse of terminology and verbiage.
In regards to Janet and the virus and when she branches, it kind of depends on what we're supposed to be looking at here. Assuming they do branch before Janet MCU and Janet WI go into the Quantum Realm, are they both appearing in the same place, or in different places? Because being in the same place would be impossible, they have to appear in different places. Either way, I think your explanation does help fix it, even if it does make the Watcher wrong about what he's saying...but oddly enough he already has been. The Captain Carter episode actually has a couple of differences even before he points out Peggy's choice, such as Agent Flynn being there, and the fact the various people, including Heinz Kruger, didn't go to the observation room.
And as you pointed out with that interview with A.C. Bradley from your prior video, What If was made before a bunch of stuff was nailed down, so I guess we just have to get a bit fast and loose with stuff like how the Stone Crusher and Quantum Realm work.
Well said on all counts. Excellent feedback on the vid!
A branch is an alternate reality from the time line. There are other time lines in the same universe. The universe is enclosed. When the branches touch other branches from a different universe we get an incursion. This is the multiverse
I'm not sure I entirely follow, but I'm down with any theory that works with all of the things we've seen in the movies and shows. I think what I laid out in the vid does that, but if you feel your theory does it as well, then I'm totally good with that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
Today we're going to ask the question, What If? That would of been such a good intro. Ultimately I think Marvel really goofed when it comes to using these terms. Because now it's getting to the point of having multiverses within a larger "omniverse", which in my opinion is super messy. And then you add omniverse after I type that haha. Now if What If is just 'depicted' as animated whilst not being animated what about MG&DD? To further that question, what kind of universe is in The Marvels post credit scene do you think? The theory I speculated for the Janet conundrum is just that different universes access different layers ... but even that is messy. But the two timelines in one universe ... that's just as messy. Still a very good video, but I have this feeling What If S2 may throw another monkey wrench in the works.
LOL! Where you you while I was writing that intro! Love it
Yeah, I had to go and mention the omniverse...oh my! But you know, this is all fitting together so well now. If only What If Season 2 can keep to the rules that are established. Please, please please!
As for MG&DD, that's likely up to them to decide. My gut says it's an animated universe, but they could either way at this point. As for the Marvels, I suspect that will be an alternate universe as I suspect Monica's presence will start causing issues. Fun stuff ahead!
I would say Monica has either gone to the Fox X-Men universe, or one that's similar.
That would cause an incursion, unless they treat it like No Way Home and just ignore that issue. The 2 other Peters seemed fine in 616, and I assume they're from Alternate Universes. Incidentally, Vulture and Venom seemed fine in their multiverse hopping. I wonder how long it takes to cause an incursion. I feel like they said something about that in MoM actually.
@@AbitofEverything4U i think that could be earth 10005 (aka fox x-men universe; the restored one frm the end of days of future past) and im thinking thats the same world as deadpool. Also fun fact: iman vellani also agrees with this so yayy
@@Jansenbaker I don't think they ever said. It was more of "your presence will erode the boundary between universes". But I wonder if that's really a thing for Strange since he travelled via Chavez' power.
@@Jansenbaker I think there's some wiggle room. 838 Reed said the more of an impact you have the greater the risk of an Incursion. Meaning if you don't leave a big impact if you keep to only leaving a small footprint only subtle influence...You might not cause any Incursion. That you can leave before negative consequences occur or even stay as long as you don't interfere in the course of history.
This is absolutely amazing, it explains to much. But I think that, in line with how the comics do it, since the movies and comics share the same (by these definitions) omniverse, the definitions be expanded. The Omniverse contains all universes, not just Marvel ones, the Marvel multiverse contains all Marvel core universes (those that have their own origin point), and the branches also exist, from those anchored points. This way, the comics can have their reality numbers including both branches and core universes, and the movies can do their silly little inconsistent thing with 616 instead of 199999 even though Across the Spider-Verse and the comics call it Earth-199999. My biggest problem I have with my proposal is the inconsistency of definitions, but I think that's gonna happen anyway with different writers for everything.
Yeah it feels like loki's branch timeline tree is just only one of another branch timeline tree that holding/created by someone.
Yes, I definitely think you are right...the omniverse would indeed include the Spider-Verse, the Fox-verse, the Fantastic Four from the 2000's etc. Can't wait to see everyone cross over in Secret Wars. And yeah, the terms have been the biggest issue so far, but hopefully they can work on more consistency going forward.
@@farrelm.andiqa1849 That's a cool idea. I like that alot!
Hope Loki will meet Watcher
I agree, that would be incredible!
I gotta say, it is a lot less confusing than the Live Action Multiverse the Arrowverse outlines
Preach it! Man, the Arrowverse is confusing at times. It's alot of fun to watch, but trying to map out a timeline and understand how it all fits together is not an easy task!
Great video, i can't wait for season 2 of what if and I find it ironic that the two main people we know died for the soul stone have other versions of them end up in other universes. Little sad news but I got spoiled for the post credit scene of the Marvels involving Monica and you know who because of RUclipsrs putting you know who in their thumbnails and I was so ticked off when I saw that. Now I did hear supposed leaks and rumors about this post credit scene and the marketing didn't help but I still didn't know if it was actually true or not so yeah that happened and it sucks. I hope we see more of the universe where Black Widow got sent to it could have a very unique avengers team, also anyone else that comments under this please don't say who I'm talking about name I'm pretty sure there are still people that haven't seen the marvels yet.
Wow...that's a good point about the two characters that died from the soul stone existing in other branched universes off of 616. ofc, it wouldn't be the same character, as we've seen with how Gamora is completely different. But still, your point is very true!
And so sorry about you getting spoiled about The Marvels. It's still an awesome movie, but it's much more fun to go in w/o knowing anything about the post credit scenes.
The Infinity Stones are living things in a way, so in a branched reality, slight variations will manifest in different ways, in different moments!
Yeah, I think that's a great explanation for the crusher. Nice call!
Yeah I was also thinking about Ravager Gamora...Now it makes sense.
Yeah, I think it all comes together really well when it's all laid out like this. Marvel has been alot more consistent than I initially assumed.
Woah you are wayyy smarter than me with this stuff. Everything you said in this video makes complete sense. I've been trying to piece together the "multiverse(s)" ever since Loki S1 and What If...? came out and I just couldn't make sense of it all. All these terms being used interchangably really confuses me haha
I agree...the biggest issue has been that the terms are being used so loosely. Hopefully they tighten that up abit as we head further into the multiverse saga. Really appreciate you watching and leaving your thoughts on the vid!
🎃My theory for the Zombie-outbreak: The quantum-realm is the basement to the 616-multiverse. In this realm, we can travel in time by traveling in space. I don't see why the branch can't happen in the quantumrealm. I think the branching/nexus is that Janet might have gotten sucked in by a time-vortex (as she warns not to do in AMaTW), and that this time-vortex sends her to a time (maybe far into the future) where the zombievirus has developed in the quantumrealm. But who knows...
That's a cool theory...I like that! Thanks for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts...really appreciate it!
Great explanation! It always bothered me how fast and loose they are with the rules lol
Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the internal logic worked as well as it did across all the different entries!
I absolutely love it if this was the logic used by the MCU for the multiverse concepts. Only problem is Sylvie and the other Loki variants especially Alligator Loki being a branch from 616. And with the Deadpool 3 rumors of TVA being involved in some capacity, then this may not really be the case.
Great questions. So, on the Loki variant issue, I made a specific video on that, if you are interested: ruclips.net/video/nb91pLa9hIY/видео.html. I provide a few possible answers, but I personally love the chaos theory myself. As for Deadpool 3, we ofc have to wait and see what that movie reveals, but if I were to take a guess, DP's usage of Cable's time device will cause an incursion with 616 and get the TVA involved that way. But that's just a guess. Anyway, thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it!
@@AbitofEverything4U great points. Deadpool really is a tricky situation as the time travel rules used in DP2 are currently conflicting with MCU rules (killing Baby Hitler in the past would not affect the future, yet that's basically Cable's arc in the movie)
Yeah, good point...should be wild to see how they deal with DP. But no matter what they do, I know it's gonna be amazing!
I think what you said about the Ancient One splitting strange into two possibilities in one reality adds cadence to MTs theories about the energy of the universe being tied to magic and this being the glue to the foundation of the MCU . That scene also is consistent with Ant Man existing in one moment with multiple different possibilities at once when exposed to the multiversal core (the power source for the Heart of Forever) and what was established throughout Loki season 2 . The simple understanding being possibility or infinite possibility diverging then converging into perpetuity
Excellent points! Yes, this does go along with MT's theories and what we saw in QM. Very cool!
@@AbitofEverything4U I mean doesn’t dark energy come from the Dark Dimension ? Didn’t Dr Strange and Clea go to the Dark Dimension to handle an incursion?
@@AbitofEverything4U lol what if when Clea said “You caused an incursion” she was referring to his variant in WhatIf or all the variants ?
Well said...yep, Clea was not happy with Dr. Strange!
The nature of the Quantum Realm and the Infinity Crusher not working definitely feel like cases where the logic just wasn't communicated exactly or got misinterpreted and things fell through the cracks. Bound to happen when you've got enormous scale things like this, I think the best scenario is to accept it's an "8 years later" thing and move on as if it never happened. Sometimes the best answer to "why do these contradict?" is just "the creators made a mistake"
Right...I think in the case of the QR, it does whatever they want it to do. It's "outside time and space" and it functions in mysterious ways. And the infinity crusher is also a hand-wavy plot device, but I'm just rolling with it. As you said, you just gotta let some things go and enjoy the greater story. Excellent feedback!
@@AbitofEverything4U Absolutely, love your breakdowns! I think it’s great how you touch on the inconsistencies, if only to point out that sometimes they’re just mistakes.
Thanks so much...really appreciate it!
For your quantum realm explanation, I think at this point it's easier to say that there is many quantum realms because they could just be referring to it as the basement of the 616 "multiverse" instead of the omniverse. That's my head Canon because the zombie episode makes sense that way and also labeling it as a 616 adjacent realm makes it seem unspecial and like there is not just one
Yeah, I've wondered if your suggestion is the answer...but I also have a theory that the Kang in QM isn't from 616's universe, and if that's the case, then there has to be one QR for the omniverse or Janet and Kang couldn't end up in the same QR. But I'm open to any idea at this point. The QR is uber-confusing!
I agree with this theory, great job man
Thanks so much...really appreciate it!
Gotta uncanonize what if for eveything to make since
tbh, I'm pretty happy with how What If shaped up for the most part. The infinity stone crusher and Janet's QR trip are both pretty hand wavy, but the rest of the series aligns really well with the overall multiversal rules. Fingers crossed that season 2 sticks to the rules that season 1 laid out!
Great video!
Thanks so much...really appreciate that!
I assumed the watcher, made himself fit with the style of the universe he’s in. Cause why not
Yeah, I agree, I bet the Watcher can change to different styles if he jumped between universes with unique reality stones (paint, cube, animated, etc). But, I also suspect that if the what if episodes are indeed branches off the 616 universe, then they would be live action since the branches would share the same core set of infinity stones. So that's why I'm theorizing that it's a creative choice for the show to be presented in animation, but that in actuality it is likely a live action universe. But just my theories. I wonder if they'll give us a clear indication in season 2? Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Really appreciate it!
I prefer "Megaverse" to "Omniverse" for what you've described. To me "Megaverse" is a collection of multiple multiverses, while "Omniverse" is a collection of EVERYTHING. The Marvel Omniverse would include even the comics, for example, but the Marvel comic multiverse exists separate from the Marvel Cinematic Megaverse, so the thing that collects them both would be the Omniverse.
On a side note, the fact that 616 is a multiverse, and then other separate universes make up their own universes, it makes me wonder whether Wanda destroyed all of the Darkholds in the 616 multiverse or all of the Darkholds in the Marvel Cinematic Megaverse. I would assume the latter, but it could go the other way.
Now be honest, if I had used megaverse you would have said you'd have rather I used omniverse, right? Just kidding. I'm down with megaverse...that makes sense. I really do hope Marvel starts to use terms that distinguish the 616 multiverse from the greater megaverse. Waldron did a great job of conceptually describing the difference between the two in that MoM Assembled quote, but now they need a term for each and need to start using it regularly. C'mon Marvel, please?
And yeah, that's an interesting question about Wanda. I kinda suspect she did it for the entire omniv...er megaverse. Since she knew that 838 existed, she must therefore be aware of the megaverse, so yeah, I bet it was for the whole megaverse. Wild stuff!
@@AbitofEverything4U Lol, sorry to be difficult with my naming preferences! But I do agree on wanting better categorization and standardization from Marvel on these terms regardless!
Just teasing...I do think you are right that it should be Omni > Mega > Multi > Uni
(Minor S2 spoilers)
So I guess the ending shot with Watcher and Peggy observing the tree sort of lines up with your theory lol. But one question is the shot before where he’s near some different structure that looks like a galaxy on its side…no clue what that’s supposed to be aside from the nexus of all realities or w/e it was called.
Yeah, that ending shot felt like it was a helpful confirmation of my Loki's tree theory. I'm working on my breakdown video of season 2 as we speak. As for that structure...your guess is mine as well...it seems to be a galaxy or maybe a black hole represented as light? Not 100% sure.
I think it makes more sense to say that there is a Quantum Realm for every multiverse. So 838 would have its own
Yeah, the QR is a big mystery for sure. The only reason I like the idea of there being one for the multiverse (or should I say omniverse) is that my theory is that the Kang from QM was not originally from the 616 universe but is from an alternate universe. So, for him to appear in the same QR as Janet means there is one QR for the greater multiverse. But just my theory on that. I agree, the QR needs to be explained in alot more detail by Marvel.
In Multiverse of Madness we also see Strange and Ms America take on the aspects of the realities they travel to and through. I think that’s important too regarding people like Miles Morales if he was to come from the Sony animated universe . Sony deals with this concept different as many of the characters in the spiderverse films maintain their aspects when they traverse universes . It’s weird ..like Gwen Stacy’s universe is similar to Miles so idk maybe she maintains the aspects of her reality, maybe she doesn’t. Marvel studios I hope is more consistent with THESE rules . That way Miles could cross over and be Live Action. That would make sense considering what’s established in MOM.
Yeah, I am really hoping that if Miles comes over from the Spider-Verse, that he turns live action. Would be great to see him join the MCU!
@@AbitofEverything4U way for X Men animated characters and What If Characters to crossover if there is any confusion by members of the audience . I think this stuff has to be demonstrated a few more times for people to grasp
Agreed...it needs to be demonstrated a few more times for it to sink in.
Quantum Realm might be the “basement” of the 616 Multiverse, not the entirety of the Omniverse.
Yeah, the QR is a big mystery for sure. The only reason I like the idea of there being one for the omniverse is that my theory is that the Kang from QM was not originally from the 616 universe but is from an alternate universe. So, for him to appear in the same QR as Janet means there is one QR for the omniverse. But just my theory on that. I agree, the QR needs to be explained in alot more detail by Marvel.
Well …I think some episodes in WhatIf actually do take place in another coded universe . The Infinity Ultron episode it seemed like Infinity Ultron and the watcher were breaking into other realities tha are vastly different . Not as different as like the Fox X Men universe but vastly different than we’ve seen in the mcu at that point
Yeah, it's hard to know for sure what they are trying to tell us about what if's universes, but I suspect that every universe we see in it is ultimately a live action universe that is being shown in animated form. I may need to watch that Ultron episode again!
@@AbitofEverything4U I think that’s the right episode . It’s the episode where Infinity Ultron discovers the multiverse and comes face to face with the Watcher
@@AbitofEverything4U yeah and what is that place the Watcher is watching all possibilities from .. the barrier Ultron had to break to discover Uatu?
I think the watcher is in something called the Nexus of All Realties
@@AbitofEverything4U connects to Werewolf by Night via Ted
This can then sorta explain the fox x-men stuff. When logan goes back he creates a branch from Earth 10005 (thts the fox universe) and that branch is the younger cast films. And then deadpool could even be the same way.
And same goes for Tobey and Andrew and The Venom, morbius kraven universe (Earth 688) they are all their own worlds as well and now tobey and andrew presumably have a least a few branches of their own due to the villains being cured in NWH.
Then stuff like the The 90s animated universe, and the various animated universes from spider-verse aren't branches, theyre their own separate worlds.
What if (plus marvel zombies and spider-man: freshman year) are 616 branches so if you wanted a designation go with the variant designations: I.E. Loki is L1130 that is his branch: 1130 if they had pulled that steve who our cap fought he would be S1130 presumably.
But here's a question that im curious about. From MoM we would assume that they changed form to fit the physics of whatever universe they're in. I.E. the paint, the blocks, the animated, etc.
But in the spider-verse films we see Live action prowler in an animated world (unless the spider-verse stuff is the same idea as what if where its just a creative choice not an in-universe one) and we also see the animated spot enter the live action venom world.
Love that feedback. Yes, this model could indeed help explain the X-men universe, the Venom, Tobey and Andrew universes, and even stuff like the 90's animated universes. Well said!
As for what we saw in MoM (changing to the physics of the universe you jump into) versus what we saw in ATSV (Prowler being live action in an animated universe) I would guess it has something to do with how they were brought into the universe in the first place. Perhaps America can safely bring you across universes and thus you take on the physics of the new universe, but for the villains pulled across in ATSV (like the Prowler...and to some extent the parchment Vulture in the opening scene) they didn't change physics as they were pulled in as a result of the collider incident. Just a guess on my part, but that could work, it seems.
Anyway, love your feedback on the vid. Great stuff!
@@AbitofEverything4USomething minor I noticed from the first Spider-verse movie was that Miguel’s form changes when he’s in the 60s Spider-Man universe. Might’ve been because Miguel’s watch was a prototype or it got retconned later. Also, Kang’s form doesn’t change despite using technology. Would make for a good video idea
@@AbitofEverything4U yea that's true.
i need to go a rewatch both spider-verse movies now (poor me 😁) and see if the art styles fr some characters change.
I don't think for instance spider-ham changes or Peni Parker they both keep their own art styles (though that could be because they're already from animated existing universes so its not to disimilar from what they're already like)
but also we should be aware of the fact that while they may connect those are still sony films firstly so they may just not work 100% perfectly within the rules of the MCU.
But as fans, of course, we will MAKE them work whatever it takes
Also MCU Vulture’s inclusion in Morbius still confuses me to this day. Was it because of the nwh spell or the collider? We don’t see him glitch but maybe he does offscreen? Sony loves confusing people 😅
@@cosmicmaster1006yeah Marvel and Sony for sure didn’t plan this together but it’s fun trying to piece everything anyway
Gonna watch this in the weekend so this is a participation for the November contest
Best of luck!
Maybe the infinity stones erode/evolve/warp over usage/time
Thank you so much for this concise compilation
Good suggestion regarding the explanation for the infinity stones. That would certainly address why the stone crusher didn't work. Nice call!
the quantum realm must be a vast subterranean network of sub basements, connecting in fractal like expansions to each branch/timeline/universe's own individual basement, with each one separated from the rest of the omniverse by a dense labyrinthine nexus/interchange that (at the quantum scale) places every one infinitesimally yet infinitely long and complicated a journey from its neighbour, with each successive neighbour exponentially further than the last. Which is why you need the multiversal engine core. To travel those vast distances between the universes and know exactly where you're going.
Going between branches of the same universe is doable with great effort by modern MCU geniuses, only Kangtech makes it effortless with the tempad.
Well said! I agree 100% with all of that. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your feedback. Really appreciate it!
It's truly my pleasure, in watching and commenting.@@AbitofEverything4U
😊
What do you think about the possibility that there is a quantum realm for each universe/multiverse? Meaning that time passes differently in all of the quantum realms (or doesn’t pass at all), but each multiverse has a different quantum realm? That would explain why they said that the quantum realm is the basement to the multiverse. Not sure, just an idea but I think it seems feasible if marvel is defining multiverse the same way you did
Yeah, the QR is a big mystery for sure. The one reason I like the idea of there being one for the multiverse (or really the omniverse) is that my theory is that the Kang from QM was not originally from the 616 universe but that he came from an alternate universe. So, for him to appear in the same QR as Janet means there is one for the greater multiverse. But just my theory on that. I agree, the QR needs to be explained in alot more detail. Thx so much for the excellent feedback on the vid. Really appreciate it!
Great vid
Thanks! I really feel this is all coming together. Can't wait for What If Season 2 to start!
So the Infinity Stones can basically always work as a sextett, but they do have some kind of timestamp, let's call it "reality stamp", that makes them unique. That makes perfect sense to me.
Would be interessting what would have happen if Ultron had try to use Stranges timestone instead of his...
Great suggestion...yes, that would indeed answer it perfectly!
The incursions are another reason why it’s difficult to believe the Spider-Verse movies are actually tied to the MCU multiverse. Spider-People are constantly traveling to other universes in those films and yet incursions are never mentioned(also makes America Chavez’s power not so special).The closest things to the idea of incursions are the glitching and breaking canon events. But the idea of the glitching is moreso that it’s harmful to the outsider than the universe they are in. And breaking canon events is about stopping a certain important event than just being in that universe at all
I agree...it's really clear that the two companies aren't working together. That said, I wonder if the watch devices are what allow them to avoid an incursion and that without the devices the glitching is the start of an incursion? As for America, she still has a very cool power since she doesn't need a device to do the travel and instead can jump between universes with her own ability and she doesn't glitch and/or create incursions. So that's a win for her. Will be very interesting to see where they go with things in the future with any potential crossovers between the MCU and the Spider-Verse.
@@AbitofEverything4U I can see the headcanon that the devices prevent the incursions. But the downside to that is it makes the the incursions in the MCU movies frustrating for the viewer when you are thinking “these incursions wouldn’t be a big deal if these characters had the devices those Spider-People use”
Yeah, that's a good point. That said, it would be scary to think you have to always wear that device or create an incursion. I suspect they just visit together briefly and then return home. Wearing that thing 24 x 7 and counting on it keep you me glitching would drive me crazy, personally.
That's a good fucking question
LOL! That make me do a spit take when I read that. That was an epic comment!
Personally I think a branch is something that follows the history of earth 199999 with little difference so what if captain Carter would be a branch since it doesn't change history in a major way while what of the avengers died during fury's big week would be a new universe since it dramatically alters 199999s history
Yeah, What If is quite the puzzler. Some of those changes were really major (like all the Avengers dying). But it seems like the Watcher is saying that the same rules applied for each new universe, since he ended up gathering the guardians of the multiverse together for that last episode. Maybe we'll get more info on how it all fits together when season 2 comes out. Really looking forward to it!
I think about it a lot and I believe that the tree is all the multiverse, not just 616 both events of Doctor Strange 2, spider man 3, and the post-credits scenes of The Marvels and Quantamania happened during Loki season 1 when the Branches split and for what if and kang the conquerer escaping from quantamania scene is after loki season 2 finale, the original plan was like you explain but now with Jonathan major court I believe that they change the hole plan to be the tree of life is the entire multiverse.
I had that same theory about when MoM, NWH and The Marvels was happening as I also thought it was right after Loki S1. However, we learn in Loki S2 that even though the branches are multiplying, the loom is still in place. We also learn from HWR that the loom will explode and reset back to the sacred timeline if there are too many branches.
So after that, I no longer think MoM, NWH and The Marvels could happen until after Loki S2's ending. The loom prevented anything like those movies from happening. If you haven't seen my video on Loki's tree, you might check that out: ruclips.net/video/eabVqU1ar0s/видео.html. I discuss that point about the loom and how it seems that Loki S1 and S2 are back to back. I think that the Disney+ timeline would have split the seasons into two entries and placed them at differently locations in the timeline, if there was a gap between them.
Anyway, that's just my theory. But all that said, we won't know for certain until Marvel releases a new timeline book that includes Loki S2 in it. So for now, all we can do is theorize. Thanks so much for watching the vid and sharing your thoughts. Love reading alternate takes on the theories!
This explains how Ultron can travel the "multiverse" and use the infinity stones.
Agreed...I love how it does indeed explain that!
All this is beyond wild
Thanks so much...had a fun time putting it together!
Definitely need that Harvard MCU lecture series. Maybe NYU though since everything in Marvel Comics happens in NYC. How are you really so knowledgeable? Are you an actual professor?
Oh my...I hope I don't sound too much like a professor...otherwise everyone will tune me out and play on their phones instead...lol! But you are right, I've found the best way to understand a story as complex as the multiverse saga is to lay out all the pieces on the table and then try to make them fit. My theories then have to be willing to evolve over time as new evidence is learned. I truly do love the MCU and I think the multiverse saga is fascinating. Can't wait to see where the story takes us from here!