Wally West was absolutely done amazingly by Mark Waid. Saying NO ONE has done him right is insulting to Waid's amazing work. Then again, what DC has done to West is basically criminal
The main thing with Red Hood is that his solo titles/Outlaws storylines are good, but no one knows how to incorporate him into Batman/Detective Comics titles as a member of the family
Idk why they try, he shouldn't even be apart of the family... it should be like if Bruce calls desperately (doubt he would) so lemme change that, if Barbara calls to tell him that they need help that's when he should temporarily help them
I think it was Future State where he was teaming up with Ravager and they fucked up both their characters, Ironically swaping how both of them act. To me personally, making them both look bad since being in "the future" both of them should have mellowed out.
Here’s the thing Wally west is finally getting justice and is currently the main flash right now in the main dc universe and his book is really excellent right now.
They actually have worked hard to move Warren past his obsession with apocalypse in the current X-men comics. Cyclops also worked hard to redeem himself and atone for his sins,during the Bendis X-men years, right before the Hickman relaunch. And no, Gwen was NOT constantly written well. Her inconstancy was one of the contributing factors that lead to the decision to kill her off in the first place.
True on Gwen. People's current views of her character are rarely based on her comic appearances before her death. I agree with Will that she never left the "generic" realm as a whole, but within that realm, her vibe would switch around like a mean girl, a nice girl with a crush, a science nerd, a party girl, and a cardboard box were all playing musical chairs with her personality. The fact that MJ was consistently written well in that time period didn't help Gwen out much either.
@@ghartman56 exactly. Almost all of the Spider-Man writers preferred Mary Jane over Gwen. She only stayed around as long as she did because Stan Lee based her character on his own wife, Joan( same with Sue from fantastic four). So, he was very protective of her character. That’s why when Gerry Conway decided that he was going to kill Gwen off, he actually called Stan while he was in Europe on vacation to get his blessing.
Roy getting super high after his daughter dying was absurd? Just because he mistook a cat for his daughter. Was something like that really far fetched or too "out there" for his character who already was a recovering addict? I mean aren't hallucinations a part of being high?
So…. Yeah….Starfire comes from a proud warrior race of golden skin aliens right?! So how come nobody else in DC Comics ever made a Science Fantasy Barbarian Warrior type of solo story with her before with Starfire battling other alien warriors on Tamaran like some space age Red Sonja?!
Because they'll rather give that story to Superman even if it's VERY close to the Planet Hulk's storyline. Or hell they'll give it to a Wonder Woman only to not do anything worth a damn after the fact. What did Starfire get? A shitty YA piece that the only good that came out of it was a Blackfire outfit.
Batman looking the other way for Red Hood killing people is exactly what Daredevil did in season 2 with Stick and Elektra. He routinely overlooked their actions.
3:14 So good to hear someone say this "you want a hero to be likeable then don't make them justify murder. Superhero 101" I should make something like this a banner and post it EVERYWHERE!!! There are probably plenty of other ways to make heroes unlikeable but having them do stuff like that probably takes the cake Likeable characters are probably essential to any story you tell. And when they're unlikeable they need to be taken to task on it and/or suffer consequences. And not just slaps on the wrists either. It should be appropriate punishment for their actions. So stupid when people justify this kind of writing and characterization by saying things like "Perfect characters are boring" "We need flawed characters" We can't have them be likeable as well?
Red Hood and the Outlaws was so good till they decided to split the team up for some reason and just had Jason move on and ignore his relationship with Artemis.
Apocalypse is alive and the obsession with him was forgotten about until around the last decade. Arsenal was great in the 90's/00's until Cry For Justice.
I feel like it was a missed opportunity to bring up the Hawks from DC Comics. DC could never seem to decide what their canon backstory was. They were either alien cops, the reincarnations of an Egyptian couple, or both. Every time DC decided to pick one when they relaunched, they'd eventually reintroduce elements of the other backstory to make things confusing. There was a point where DC just decided to get rid of them and currently, Hawkgirl and Hawkwoman, who are usually the same person, are now separate people. Just look it up, it's aggravating just trying to process it all. I know comic book continuity can get VERY messy, but it never gets worse than them. To say that no one has ever gotten the Hawks right would be incorrect. I did like Hawkgirl's portrayal in the Justice League animated series and they did try to combine both backstories into one and I REALLY liked Robert Venditti's Hawkman comic series, which also combined both backstories and fixed a lot my problems with the characters by explaining that they reincarnate across time and space. Still, I don't think either of those portrayals will influence the characters for long. DC will undo it all eventually.
So good to see the abomination of Starfire's Nympho phase being mentioned here. Disgusting writing. Not the kind of person Starfire was supposed to be. Or any hero for that matter. Heroes are supposed to be selfless or strive for it. They don't blatantly and remorselessly use others for personal gain at their expense.
Yeah that doesn't work. Cartoon Star isn't an idiot, she's naïve. Being naïve isn't the same as being dumb and sexpot her isn't even close to that version. That version was optimistic and kind. Sexpot her is manipulative.
In regards to Mary Jane, I would agree, especially during Slotts run, but only half agree. The times I feel she was written properly, was during JMS's run and Nick Spencer's run. Nick Spencer did a brilliant job fixing her character after everything that happened since OMD, I just hope it stays that way now that Spencer's no longer writting her, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed Zeb Wells keeps the momentum going. and that his issue #2 isn't the worst case scenario I and others are imagining.
As an addict I love Roy Harper especially in Red Hood and the Outlaws. I’ve never actually rooted for a hero like I have in him. I also loved the whole Angel/Archangel twist in X-Force. It was nice seeing Warren so powerful.
For me DC can fix all of their characters by just doing one thing. STOP putting out 10+ Batman titles a year and instead have writes work on the rest of DC’s established characters. I know he sells but it’s ridiculous to put all your eggs in that basket every year
Since we're mentioning Mary Sues probably the worst Mary Sue I've seen is the CW Green Arrow. A pretty boy that can do anything. Have any girl he wants. Beat any opponent. Be praised as this great man and hero despite the evil atrocities he committed.
Also I loved whiny superboy prime and I feel like thats how whiny a teenager with superman powers would be like in 2000s. Like beyond a dork. Worked out well.
Caveat : Howard the Duck is the brain child creation of one of the greatest comic writers of all time , Steve Gerber . He claimed ownership in the days when artists lost thier rights IE Jack Kirby to Captain American his family finally settled with Marvel for a few million and agreed it had no further rights to the BILLIONS generated by Steve Rodgers . Steve Gerber lost the Howard the Duck lawsuit sadly and Marvel will never bring it back, it can’t because it’s the ghost of Steve Gerber who also created Man Thing one of my favorites of all time . 👑👑👑
Wally West was done well by Mark Waid but I do agree that the Mobius Chair nonsense was a bit random however all in all I think he was done great. I think Red Hood is also done great, he doesn’t know if he’s a murdered or not because he’s conflicted. He’s not as black and white as others of the Batfamily. Jason is a murderer however in some cases he respects batman’s philosophies for one reason or another and that’s what makes him such a great character. I also agree that Starfire wasn’t done well, I wish she was like Wonder Woman, foreign, powerful and smart. I’m happy that in Titans she isn’t retarded but I wish they would go back to the age when she wasn’t dumb in most continuities
I always thought bringing Jason back in a canon story was the dumbest thing they could have done with him. It completely removed any weight from his death. The worst part is after they initially brought him back, it felt like they never knew what the hell to do with him.
Superboy prime was the best! He want badly written, he was consistently and believably turned to being a shithead. He was the most fun character of the last 20 years and they tied off his story with a neat little bow.
If you want to see a good Jason Todd interpretation read the comic in the DCeased run, I forget the name of the specific comic but it was actually really cool, it showed the villains and anti heroes of the Batman comics and shows how they would react in a real end of the world scenario
I think it’s weird Martian Manhunter isn’t here because I know I’m not the only fan who feels he isn’t used properly he’s just as strong as Superman but is always pushed to the background
The reason Howard the Duck doesn't really work beyond the work of Steve Gurber is because Howard the Duck works best as a slice of life character, an alien commenting on the mundanity of daily life. Marvel has never known what to do with Howard because his conception is a bit more mature than the standard superhero fare
I don't think I agree with Arcangel but Wally West during late 90s/2000s run up to Barry's return were probably the best Flash stories. Sorry, I just don't find Barry interesting as Wally. And as for Jason Todd, it feels like they give him and Arsenal all of Grifter's looks, abilities and fighting style .
That's outright bullshit. Red Hood and the Outlaws, the one that featured him and the rest of the Dark Trinity, actually was a good step toward giving him agency on his own in great light. It was one of the few bright spots in the recent years despite how creatively bankrupt DC is nowadays.
I like Superboy Prime, his nonsensical ranting and almost universe unraveling power is somewhat humerus. One thing that makes him funny is he probably makes these plans and he overpowers almost everyone there and all of a sudden despite overwhelming power the situation always seems to get away from him. I don't think he's a bad character, but he should be used sparingly. If anything he's an interesting look at how overpowered a bad guy Kryptonian can be.
The main reason Jason Todd is the way he is was because of us we the fans decided to kill off Jason and bring him back so it's our fault for Jason Todd being fucked
Actually, the majority of this characters were done right, specially Wally, the problem is that as time passes and you have to change their dynamic is more difficult to do them right.
We didn't need Cyke to justify murder, mostly because we watched said "murder" and he literally told Charles not to mentally attack him. Got ignored. And then lashed out and killed him. You don't need to justify defending yourself.
WOW...............There is SO MUCH WRING With This List. Mainly Ones having to do with the likes of Warren, Red Hood, Cyclops,and Mary Jane. ESPECIALLY MARY JANE. Like, Wow.........
The Superboy Prime example is baffling given that he is a perfect example of the subject...yet the explanation given is completely wrong on ever level. Prime was not some "beloved character", he was a secondary character in Crisis on Infinite Earths with relatively little development, who was brought back for Infinite Crisis as one of the main villains. And, while divisive, most agree nowadays that Prime in Infinite Crisis is actually a really great villain - a psychotic representation of nostalgic desire who is warped into becoming exactly the thing he hates. The scene where Prime snaps, his fight with the Titans, is incredibly tragic and disturbing, as he doesn't kill by intention, but because of his own mental instability and self-defence causing him to escalate the situation to where he leaves multiple kids his own age dead or mutilated. His degrading sanity just worsens from there-on, and he devolves into repeatedly screaming that "he's Superman", because he's trying to justify that he's doing the right thing by reserving the darker shift of the DCU (not "learning he lost his world", that was in the original Crisis). That culminates in the brilliant climax of the story, where Superman, nearly powerless, tears into him, and tells him that he simply doesn't understand what being a hero even is. The problem was that, after Infinite Crisis, Prime under any writer that wasn't Geoff Johns was relegated to a whiny, psychotic strawman for ungrateful fans and an OP murder machine who was nigh-impossible to stop, yet still kept showing up because of how he was effectively the lead villain of a major event. This is most infamous in Countdown, where Prime spends almost the entire series just going around murdering innocent people and whining to himself, and has seemingly no motivation for anything he does. The Death Metal one-shot, if anything, is more notable for making people look back and realize Prime was actually a good character who was just misused, and it's pretty telling that that one-shot was primarily written by Geoff Johns as well. Other problems with the list: -Why is Calender Man here? Yes, the character in Long Halloween was memorable, but he wasn't even the main villain, and a run of the mill serial killer is hardly the most engaging villain conceit ever. His use in the Rebirth special was also just a meta thing, you're over-thinking it. -Starfire's characterization in her solo book was an attempt to make her closer to her animated series counterpart. What's more, why are you focusing on just two runs in a character with 40+ years of publication history? The fact that Kory was so popular to begin with defeats the arguments. -This is pedantic, but it's...odd that you'd focus on Roy's substance background, and not Lian, when that is the reason people like him so much (it's half the reason Cry For Justice is among the most reviled stories in DC history). -This is something others have pointed out, but Wally is the Flash again, has Linda and his kids back, and his actions in Heroes in Crisis were all swept under the rug as being the fault of Savitar and Thawne's individual fuckings with the Speed Force. That none of this is mentioned is seriously weird, especially when you bring up Superboy-Prime's Death Metal arc.
I'm not gonna lie I don't really like Cyclops, not for the reason mentioned on this list though, he to me suffers through the same issues as a lot of characters on this list do and that's a consistency problem, sometimes he's this rule abiding golden boy and other times he's killing Prof X, busting out of a prison and becoming a radical mutant extremist on par with Magneto, the thing is though for Mags this works because he's consistent with this goal. For Cyclops though this seems like a mood swing
Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the Red Hood character shouldn't even exist in the first place because it makes zero sense and that's why the character doesn't get traction after all these years.
I personally like Red Hood and the Outlaws. When Jason shoots penguin, Batman literally beats the shit out of him and exiles him from Gotham… I wouldn’t call that making excuses. Jason’s not even welcome in the Bat family in the first like 20 issues of the new 52 because he refused to follow the no kill rule. Also Three Jokers sucked.
ARCHANGEL is the most underrated & underused X-Men character. OP powerset and Hell of a lot of character depth and backstory. WW the 3rd used to bang Psylocke and its implied that he had an affair with Jean while he was Angel and Rogue when he was Archangel. just for that the dudes a HERO
@@amanzeihedioha I think he’s referring to the X-men animated series episode “ obsession” , where Warren convinces Rogue to help him take down apocalypse( despite Gambit’s objection). The tone of Warren’s dialogue towards her, and why she initially hesitates, kinda implies that there’s some physical attraction between the 2 of them. This is before Warren meets Psylocke.
I mean, someone had to have gotten close for the character to gain popularity. Unless you add a "recently" to the end of that sentence, the premise of this video is self-contradictory.
Actually , I think that out of the original five X-Men, Warren was the WORST and the most boring ! His power is lame as well. I really only liked him when he was Archangel (That’s also when he was dating Betsy.).
Funny... the whole (New52 original) Outlaws team is on here. Not so funny... Sooooo many Titans on this list. Because modern DC seems to hate legacy characters.
Yeah, I agree with everything here. Like Cyclops STILL isn't interesting in X-Men since they gave major plot threads to Wolverine again. I'm just waiting until Jean becomes Dark Phoenix so they can really just retcon that whole mistake of a run.
![MISSING: SLIM SHADY [Expanded Mourner’s Edition Trailer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xh8qgHrOO1g/mqdefault.jpg)
Wally West was absolutely done amazingly by Mark Waid. Saying NO ONE has done him right is insulting to Waid's amazing work.
Then again, what DC has done to West is basically criminal
1000% agree! I always love seeing people who are as big a Mark Waid Flash fan as I am! My favorite run in comics, period.
I think they trying to say no one has done Wally right since they brought back Barry
@@seanthomxx2694 Yes, but the title is characters NO ONE has done right. Mark Waid did him fucking perfect.
@@jschildress1 not just Waid but every story he appeared in from late 90s to late 2000s was good.
Lol waid and John's both did Wally well. What is this dude smoking ?
The main thing with Red Hood is that his solo titles/Outlaws storylines are good, but no one knows how to incorporate him into Batman/Detective Comics titles as a member of the family
Idk why they try, he shouldn't even be apart of the family... it should be like if Bruce calls desperately (doubt he would) so lemme change that, if Barbara calls to tell him that they need help that's when he should temporarily help them
I think it was Future State where he was teaming up with Ravager and they fucked up both their characters, Ironically swaping how both of them act. To me personally, making them both look bad since being in "the future" both of them should have mellowed out.
Here’s the thing Wally west is finally getting justice and is currently the main flash right now in the main dc universe and his book is really excellent right now.
Didn't know that. Last I heard about Wally was the terrible "Heroes in Crisis" crossover. How do they address his rather unpleasant part in all that?
@@bdpickett simple really they have the whole thing be caused by savitar the evil speedster who wally west did trap a very long time ago.
Yup. And it’s so awesome to see Jai and Irey play a role in this run as well! Jeremy Adams is killing it.
So are we just going to forget future state and where he is supposed to go as a character?
@@christianrapper yeah here's the thing the writer Jeremy Adams has said that future flash is never going to happen.
They actually have worked hard to move Warren past his obsession with apocalypse in the current X-men comics.
Cyclops also worked hard to redeem himself and atone for his sins,during the Bendis X-men years, right before the Hickman relaunch.
And no, Gwen was NOT constantly written well.
Her inconstancy was one of the contributing factors that lead to the decision to kill her off in the first place.
True on Gwen. People's current views of her character are rarely based on her comic appearances before her death. I agree with Will that she never left the "generic" realm as a whole, but within that realm, her vibe would switch around like a mean girl, a nice girl with a crush, a science nerd, a party girl, and a cardboard box were all playing musical chairs with her personality. The fact that MJ was consistently written well in that time period didn't help Gwen out much either.
@@ghartman56 exactly. Almost all of the Spider-Man writers preferred Mary Jane over Gwen. She only stayed around as long as she did because Stan Lee based her character on his own wife, Joan( same with Sue from fantastic four). So, he was very protective of her character. That’s why when Gerry Conway decided that he was going to kill Gwen off, he actually called Stan while he was in Europe on vacation to get his blessing.
Roy getting super high after his daughter dying was absurd? Just because he mistook a cat for his daughter.
Was something like that really far fetched or too "out there" for his character who already was a recovering addict? I mean aren't hallucinations a part of being high?
Not like that and definitely not from heroin
I Never hallucinated like that lol
Calendar Man was done right in the Long Halloween and in the Arkham games.
So…. Yeah….Starfire comes from a proud warrior race of golden skin aliens right?! So how come nobody else in DC Comics ever made a Science Fantasy Barbarian Warrior type of solo story with her before with Starfire battling other alien warriors on Tamaran like some space age Red Sonja?!
Because they'll rather give that story to Superman even if it's VERY close to the Planet Hulk's storyline. Or hell they'll give it to a Wonder Woman only to not do anything worth a damn after the fact.
What did Starfire get? A shitty YA piece that the only good that came out of it was a Blackfire outfit.
Idk but in future state and TTA, she kinds of get a more mature mentor role to young metas.
Batman looking the other way for Red Hood killing people is exactly what Daredevil did in season 2 with Stick and Elektra. He routinely overlooked their actions.
3:14 So good to hear someone say this
"you want a hero to be likeable then don't make them justify murder. Superhero 101"
I should make something like this a banner and post it EVERYWHERE!!!
There are probably plenty of other ways to make heroes unlikeable but having them do stuff like that probably takes the cake
Likeable characters are probably essential to any story you tell. And when they're unlikeable they need to be taken to task on it and/or suffer consequences. And not just slaps on the wrists either. It should be appropriate punishment for their actions.
So stupid when people justify this kind of writing and characterization by saying things like
"Perfect characters are boring"
"We need flawed characters"
We can't have them be likeable as well?
Red Hood and the Outlaws was so good till they decided to split the team up for some reason and just had Jason move on and ignore his relationship with Artemis.
Apocalypse is alive and the obsession with him was forgotten about until around the last decade. Arsenal was great in the 90's/00's until Cry For Justice.
I feel like it was a missed opportunity to bring up the Hawks from DC Comics. DC could never seem to decide what their canon backstory was. They were either alien cops, the reincarnations of an Egyptian couple, or both. Every time DC decided to pick one when they relaunched, they'd eventually reintroduce elements of the other backstory to make things confusing. There was a point where DC just decided to get rid of them and currently, Hawkgirl and Hawkwoman, who are usually the same person, are now separate people. Just look it up, it's aggravating just trying to process it all. I know comic book continuity can get VERY messy, but it never gets worse than them. To say that no one has ever gotten the Hawks right would be incorrect. I did like Hawkgirl's portrayal in the Justice League animated series and they did try to combine both backstories into one and I REALLY liked Robert Venditti's Hawkman comic series, which also combined both backstories and fixed a lot my problems with the characters by explaining that they reincarnate across time and space. Still, I don't think either of those portrayals will influence the characters for long. DC will undo it all eventually.
So good to see the abomination of Starfire's Nympho phase being mentioned here. Disgusting writing.
Not the kind of person Starfire was supposed to be. Or any hero for that matter. Heroes are supposed to be selfless or strive for it. They don't blatantly and remorselessly use others for personal gain at their expense.
Batman makes excuses for Jason because he doesn’t want to lose him
@Riguy625 No offense, but all those spelling errors you made make the comment resemble medieval English. It's kinda cool.
I’m sure they made StarFire an idiot so she would fall more in line with her more popular teen titans cartoon depiction.
Yeah that doesn't work. Cartoon Star isn't an idiot, she's naïve. Being naïve isn't the same as being dumb and sexpot her isn't even close to that version. That version was optimistic and kind. Sexpot her is manipulative.
In regards to Mary Jane, I would agree, especially during Slotts run, but only half agree. The times I feel she was written properly, was during JMS's run and Nick Spencer's run. Nick Spencer did a brilliant job fixing her character after everything that happened since OMD, I just hope it stays that way now that Spencer's no longer writting her, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed Zeb Wells keeps the momentum going. and that his issue #2 isn't the worst case scenario I and others are imagining.
Me too
As an addict I love Roy Harper especially in Red Hood and the Outlaws. I’ve never actually rooted for a hero like I have in him. I also loved the whole Angel/Archangel twist in X-Force. It was nice seeing Warren so powerful.
X Men Evolution portrayal of Cyclops was quite good
For me DC can fix all of their characters by just doing one thing.
STOP putting out 10+ Batman titles a year and instead have writes work on the rest of DC’s established characters. I know he sells but it’s ridiculous to put all your eggs in that basket every year
Since we're mentioning Mary Sues probably the worst Mary Sue I've seen is the CW Green Arrow.
A pretty boy that can do anything. Have any girl he wants. Beat any opponent. Be praised as this great man and hero despite the evil atrocities he committed.
I still remember that moment when he snapped that Kidnapper's neck. I knew exactly where that show was going.
Funny enough, wally west was done better in justice league and justice league unlimited cartoon and more people probably saw that then any comic.
Compared to the movies, the Justice League overall was done better.
Also I loved whiny superboy prime and I feel like thats how whiny a teenager with superman powers would be like in 2000s. Like beyond a dork. Worked out well.
Don't forget Donna Troy either; there's a reason why she has her own subpage under Continuity Snarl in TV Tropes.
She does?
@@matthewschwartz6607 Are you surprised? I love Donna and I'm not.
Caveat : Howard the Duck is the brain child creation of one of the greatest comic writers of all time , Steve Gerber . He claimed ownership in the days when artists lost thier rights IE Jack Kirby to Captain American his family finally settled with Marvel for a few million and agreed it had no further rights to the BILLIONS generated by Steve Rodgers . Steve Gerber lost the Howard the Duck lawsuit sadly and Marvel will never bring it back, it can’t because it’s the ghost of Steve Gerber who also created Man Thing one of my favorites of all time . 👑👑👑
Wally West was done well by Mark Waid but I do agree that the Mobius Chair nonsense was a bit random however all in all I think he was done great. I think Red Hood is also done great, he doesn’t know if he’s a murdered or not because he’s conflicted. He’s not as black and white as others of the Batfamily. Jason is a murderer however in some cases he respects batman’s philosophies for one reason or another and that’s what makes him such a great character. I also agree that Starfire wasn’t done well, I wish she was like Wonder Woman, foreign, powerful and smart. I’m happy that in Titans she isn’t retarded but I wish they would go back to the age when she wasn’t dumb in most continuities
I always thought bringing Jason back in a canon story was the dumbest thing they could have done with him. It completely removed any weight from his death. The worst part is after they initially brought him back, it felt like they never knew what the hell to do with him.
A Howard the Duck film or small screen saga could be so fun!
Joss Whedon did Cyclops right (but God I hate dropping that name).
Superboy prime was the best! He want badly written, he was consistently and believably turned to being a shithead. He was the most fun character of the last 20 years and they tied off his story with a neat little bow.
If you want to see a good Jason Todd interpretation read the comic in the DCeased run, I forget the name of the specific comic but it was actually really cool, it showed the villains and anti heroes of the Batman comics and shows how they would react in a real end of the world scenario
I hate red hood and outlaws for ruining starfire it was so bad and completely unnecessary and garbage.
Cyclops is rarely done right
Ok cool, I was worried he wasn’t gonna be on the list lol
I think it’s weird Martian Manhunter isn’t here because I know I’m not the only fan who feels he isn’t used properly he’s just as strong as Superman but is always pushed to the background
Comic book characters can catch a break in general
The reason Howard the Duck doesn't really work beyond the work of Steve Gurber is because Howard the Duck works best as a slice of life character, an alien commenting on the mundanity of daily life. Marvel has never known what to do with Howard because his conception is a bit more mature than the standard superhero fare
I don't think I agree with Arcangel but Wally West during late 90s/2000s run up to Barry's return were probably the best Flash stories. Sorry, I just don't find Barry interesting as Wally.
And as for Jason Todd, it feels like they give him and Arsenal all of Grifter's looks, abilities and fighting style .
WIth DC kinda owning WIldstorm characters they haven't met up with Grifter yet
Redhood only worked in under the redhood outside of that story he’s pretty useless and inconsistent with some of the dumbest storylines
Red hood and outlaws isnt one of them, right?
That's outright bullshit. Red Hood and the Outlaws, the one that featured him and the rest of the Dark Trinity, actually was a good step toward giving him agency on his own in great light. It was one of the few bright spots in the recent years despite how creatively bankrupt DC is nowadays.
@@theworldaccordingtotruth4109 The Dark Trinity was great. Then DC decided, lets make him go solo.... which killed that series effectively.
@@darkothemapper1826 redhood and the outlaws is kind of boring and pointless imo and they made Starfire the team whore
You should try reading the Task Force Z comics that are currently coming out. Red Hood is pretty well written there.
I like Superboy Prime, his nonsensical ranting and almost universe unraveling power is somewhat humerus. One thing that makes him funny is he probably makes these plans and he overpowers almost everyone there and all of a sudden despite overwhelming power the situation always seems to get away from him. I don't think he's a bad character, but he should be used sparingly. If anything he's an interesting look at how overpowered a bad guy Kryptonian can be.
The main reason Jason Todd is the way he is was because of us we the fans decided to kill off Jason and bring him back so it's our fault for Jason Todd being fucked
Actually, the majority of this characters were done right, specially Wally, the problem is that as time passes and you have to change their dynamic is more difficult to do them right.
We didn't need Cyke to justify murder, mostly because we watched said "murder" and he literally told Charles not to mentally attack him. Got ignored. And then lashed out and killed him. You don't need to justify defending yourself.
It's simple i see Red Hood....I click
WOW...............There is SO MUCH WRING With This List. Mainly Ones having to do with the likes of Warren, Red Hood, Cyclops,and Mary Jane. ESPECIALLY MARY JANE. Like, Wow.........
The Superboy Prime example is baffling given that he is a perfect example of the subject...yet the explanation given is completely wrong on ever level.
Prime was not some "beloved character", he was a secondary character in Crisis on Infinite Earths with relatively little development, who was brought back for Infinite Crisis as one of the main villains. And, while divisive, most agree nowadays that Prime in Infinite Crisis is actually a really great villain - a psychotic representation of nostalgic desire who is warped into becoming exactly the thing he hates. The scene where Prime snaps, his fight with the Titans, is incredibly tragic and disturbing, as he doesn't kill by intention, but because of his own mental instability and self-defence causing him to escalate the situation to where he leaves multiple kids his own age dead or mutilated. His degrading sanity just worsens from there-on, and he devolves into repeatedly screaming that "he's Superman", because he's trying to justify that he's doing the right thing by reserving the darker shift of the DCU (not "learning he lost his world", that was in the original Crisis). That culminates in the brilliant climax of the story, where Superman, nearly powerless, tears into him, and tells him that he simply doesn't understand what being a hero even is.
The problem was that, after Infinite Crisis, Prime under any writer that wasn't Geoff Johns was relegated to a whiny, psychotic strawman for ungrateful fans and an OP murder machine who was nigh-impossible to stop, yet still kept showing up because of how he was effectively the lead villain of a major event. This is most infamous in Countdown, where Prime spends almost the entire series just going around murdering innocent people and whining to himself, and has seemingly no motivation for anything he does. The Death Metal one-shot, if anything, is more notable for making people look back and realize Prime was actually a good character who was just misused, and it's pretty telling that that one-shot was primarily written by Geoff Johns as well.
Other problems with the list:
-Why is Calender Man here? Yes, the character in Long Halloween was memorable, but he wasn't even the main villain, and a run of the mill serial killer is hardly the most engaging villain conceit ever. His use in the Rebirth special was also just a meta thing, you're over-thinking it.
-Starfire's characterization in her solo book was an attempt to make her closer to her animated series counterpart. What's more, why are you focusing on just two runs in a character with 40+ years of publication history? The fact that Kory was so popular to begin with defeats the arguments.
-This is pedantic, but it's...odd that you'd focus on Roy's substance background, and not Lian, when that is the reason people like him so much (it's half the reason Cry For Justice is among the most reviled stories in DC history).
-This is something others have pointed out, but Wally is the Flash again, has Linda and his kids back, and his actions in Heroes in Crisis were all swept under the rug as being the fault of Savitar and Thawne's individual fuckings with the Speed Force. That none of this is mentioned is seriously weird, especially when you bring up Superboy-Prime's Death Metal arc.
I'm not gonna lie I don't really like Cyclops, not for the reason mentioned on this list though, he to me suffers through the same issues as a lot of characters on this list do and that's a consistency problem, sometimes he's this rule abiding golden boy and other times he's killing Prof X, busting out of a prison and becoming a radical mutant extremist on par with Magneto, the thing is though for Mags this works because he's consistent with this goal. For Cyclops though this seems like a mood swing
Uh…..hate to break it to you WhatCulture, but The Flash TV show didn’t do Wally West right either
Probably an unpopular opinion but I think the Red Hood character shouldn't even exist in the first place because it makes zero sense and that's why the character doesn't get traction after all these years.
Archangel was done well in Xtreme X-Men. He's a mutant thats conflicted on when he should use his wealth or his powers to help mutants
Wow this is very insulting to a lot of great writers
Young Justice did Arsenal justice imo
Well there is like three version of Roy Harper: Arsenal(Superhero), The Father to Liam, and the Guardian
A very bold statement/title
Superboy Prime as a villain...the major influence for Star Wars Prequels' Kylo Ren.
I thought this was gonna be characters they never get right in live action versions. Which you should do, but you gonna need a bigger counter.
I personally like Red Hood and the Outlaws. When Jason shoots penguin, Batman literally beats the shit out of him and exiles him from Gotham… I wouldn’t call that making excuses. Jason’s not even welcome in the Bat family in the first like 20 issues of the new 52 because he refused to follow the no kill rule.
Also Three Jokers sucked.
He didn't kill the penguin iirc?
Howard was done well by Gerber and Zdarsky
Yeah I disagree on the Mary Jane part
Was this written by someone who hasn’t read but a few comics?
ARCHANGEL is the most underrated & underused X-Men character. OP powerset and Hell of a lot of character depth and backstory. WW the 3rd used to bang Psylocke and its implied that he had an affair with Jean while he was Angel and Rogue when he was Archangel. just for that the dudes a HERO
Him and Rogue? When? What series? I hope it wasn't a rebound thing
@@amanzeihedioha I think he’s referring to the X-men animated series episode “ obsession” , where Warren convinces Rogue to help him take down apocalypse( despite Gambit’s objection). The tone of Warren’s dialogue towards her, and why she initially hesitates, kinda implies that there’s some physical attraction between the 2 of them. This is before Warren meets Psylocke.
Awesome
I thought Jason was great in Three Jokers
I mean, someone had to have gotten close for the character to gain popularity. Unless you add a "recently" to the end of that sentence, the premise of this video is self-contradictory.
I've got to appreciate a whole list that hammers home how much Red Hood and the Outlaws sucked.
Actually , I think that out of the original five X-Men, Warren was the WORST and the most boring ! His power is lame as well. I really only liked him when he was Archangel (That’s also when he was dating Betsy.).
Funny... the whole (New52 original) Outlaws team is on here.
Not so funny... Sooooo many Titans on this list. Because modern DC seems to hate legacy characters.
Dan Didio definitely hated legacy characters and that makes zero sense. DC is always unique because of its legacy characters.
o/ hi comments section
hope your day is awesome
Howard The Duck??? No....no and VERY no!!!!
Third we’re early
5th
2nd
Under the Red Hood had the best version of Jason Todd
Tell me you don’t read red hood comics without telling me
I didn't like Red Hood and the Outlaws either.
Yeah, I agree with everything here. Like Cyclops STILL isn't interesting in X-Men since they gave major plot threads to Wolverine again. I'm just waiting until Jean becomes Dark Phoenix so they can really just retcon that whole mistake of a run.