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@@RyanHollinger A middle aged guy that lost his child and lost his hope. Drinks and doesn't care about anyone. Gets paid to transport a young woman. Traveling partner dies. Woman turns out to be the/a last hope for humanity to survive. Regains his humanity. Children of men and the fishes is one of the reasons I never really trusted the Fireflies either, would they even have tried to save all of humanity if they discovered a cure. Or would they have used it to their own advantage, to gain power for themselves.
It really felt like they needed a few more episodes. I don't know if it was budget or time but if this was even a 12 episode season I think it would've been better.
@@jasonhunter2819 That's true. So they should have spent more time developing the Joel and Ellie relationship instead of on pointless side plots and tertiary characters.
@@jasonfenton8250 why? the relationship was fully evident and felt, you don't need to repeatedly drag through the exact same mud to get the fucking point...well unless you're an idiot I guess
they flew through the story but then invested WAY too much time in characters who at the end of the day served absolutely no purpose to the overall plot - bad show
Something else that kinda bugged me about the David's group episode; when he's talking about how strong Ellie is and how she's just like him and so on... in the game they've had time to take out infected together where she can show that fact. The line doesn't feel as earned in the show, but that's just me idk.
I have never played the game but it seemed to me that David had...creepy reason (to put it mildly) for saying those things. At least that's what I got from the acting.
BRO ALL YALL BOTS in response to the other too response (OP seems like a bot too but whatever) In the game he is also being creepy when he says this, the point OP is making is that without the hunting of the infected where he sees how she Carrie’s herself, it’s not as effective of a line because him and Ellie don’t have a rapport, it comes off as him playing his cards too early but in the game they spent a good bit longer where he was trying to gain her trust
it's very weird because you've touched on most of the nitpicks I've had with the series aswell. It's very well made, very well acted but it was also very hard to not compare it constantly with the game (apart from episode 3 and the openings of episode 1 and 2). But it feels like they took the "written" story and adapted that but in truth, like the game director of the remake said "Every part of this game is telling the story". Every part. The story of The Last of Us isn't anything to write home about on paper, but when playing the game, the executions makes it so special. It's the fact that WE are playing Joel, it's the fact that we're constantly viewing the world from HIS point of view, the fact that we actually spend hours in one place, discovering the place instead of a montage. There's a continuity of action that puts us WITH these characters IN this world that works so well. The TV show weirdly felt... TV looking to me, I wish we could have had something akin to Andor. The post apocalyptique world felt... dressed. Anyway I'm rambling, It's a very well written video, absolutely nailed !
Maybe the limited PoV itself is what makes it feel unique? since in the game we are playing as Joel, means we are experiencing (witnessing) how the story goes from his eyes only, while the series jumped between few characters. Edit: For example, in the game we only know about Bill and frank story from what bill tells joel, while the series they show the their entire story.
It's interesting to hear someone who has played the games talk about the series, cause as someone who has not played the games and watched the show first, I'm really interested to know what was done differently in the adaptation and how people who've played the game feel about the show
The biggest change is inhaling spores aren’t the main mode of transfer and also the total gayficstion of all relationships. These relationships were there but hinted at not an entire episode of bearded men kissing and singing Linda Ronstadt.
Imo, the show padded too much and added useless scenes/characters instead of spending more time on the most important aspect of the entire series-Ellie and Joel. They cut out or changed some of the best moments significantly, the pacing is mostly very fast and the relationships have no time to develop. There’s literally like 30 minutes between Joel telling Ellie to never ask him a single thing about his past and then the long ass monologue when they’re driving. Too much unnatural connection. This is largely because they remove huge gameplay sections with amazing character interactions and dialogue. Like Ryan said, it’s basically a cutscene supercut of the game. There’s wayyyy too much on-the-nose moral lessons just tossed in. It lacks in any subtlety. Also didn’t like Ellie’s actress in the show. All of the humor/anger/swearing felt shallow and forced. The same way her character in Game of Thrones felt shallow and forced; “Hey, I’m fuckin angry and tough! I say shit and fuck a lot! That makes me badass!” Her quieter moments were pretty good. Not as good as Ashley Johnson, but good.
As someone who appreciates the game story, I actually didn’t mind that padding and things being drawn out. It’s a tv adaptation. It’s like when marvel fans nitpick a lot of the MCU(which there’s much to go on about the state of that) they want things to be a cookie cutter copy to the stories and characters they are familiar with. I felt like the show was great for people who don’t care for the game or games in general. Just like the game it’s not for everyone but I disagree about the Bella Ramsey hate I think did a great job at making Ellie her own instead of tryna mimic Ashley Johnson. In her first appearance it was meh but she grew into it. I think she kept the child like moments genuine and she feels like she tries to be tough bc that’s literally what Ellie is. A kid trying to be tough. Everyone can have their opinions I personally enjoyed it as a separate version of a great game. It blows that they condensed the entire game in 9 episodes, but for what came from it I could give respect/credit where it’s due. Though I’m not too sure how them cramming part 2 in 9 episodes would turn out I don’t have high hopes for that….
@@ReIigionlsForIdiots the "Gayification" of relationships implies turning characters gay who weren't previously. Bill and Ellie are both canonically gay in the game already. The episode with Bill and Frank was one of the highlights of the whole show for me despite being where it departs fartherst from the game.
Part of the problem with video game adaptations (especially in survival horror) is that a lot of the tension and anxiety you get from playing the game yourself is removed so you don't get that emotional catharsis and sense of relief after facing obstacles, bosses, and puzzles. You're too far removed from the action so your emotions and adrenaline are dulled.
It reminds me to some old stand up joke: Unlike books, movie or music, video games need user's participation. Just imagine if in concert while we having fun suddenly the singer stop and ask audience some trivia, which if answer incorrectly they will repeat the song from the beginning and only continue if someone answer right. Or get kicked out from cinema if you can't do quick time event, and need to buy ticket to try again Movie/tv are to WATCH, while video game are to PLAY
Ultimately a video game will have more opportunities to explore ideas than a TV series, since a game's story can span for 40 hours and in most cases you're buying the whole thing. Meanwhile a TV show only gets so much time in a season, and you need to hedge your bets since there's no guarantee of a second season, even if things go well (looking at you, Mindhunter).
Apart from being rushed. They made some weird changes that ruined/changed the impact of some key scenes. For example, Joel being more open and emotional to tommy when they meet again & being honest to Ellie about how he feels about her, ruins the infamous convo of Ellie and Joel in the barn. The whole point is that Joel made his heart a stone after the death of Sarah and wants to handover Ellie to not risk losing a daughter all over again. BUT, he'll NEVER admit this to himself. The fact that Joel answered 'Ofcourse I do' when Ellie asked if he cared about her, ruined the entire meaning of that scene & ruined a big part of joel's character. He's not supposed to admit that he cares for her. He's supposed to do everything in his power to NOT care for her, he's supposed to DENY the fact that he cares for her in his head. Just simple things like that, that they changed for no reason other then: look how emotional men can be - type shit.
It's a good adaptation, but I think the biggest problem with the show is that it's rushed, it needed more episodes to develop and flesh out Joel and Ellie's relationship in a natural way, it's the heart of the story and they just kinda rush through it most of the time so they can get to the next plot point as fast as possible, which makes the emotional moments between them not hit as hard as they should and it ends up feeling a bit forced, a contributor to that problem is that some of the episodes are more focused on side characters than Joel and Ellie (which wouldn't be a problem if they had more episodes to focus on Joel and Ellie)
I feel HBO was really on the fence on wether this could be as good as it was and the game. They probably said 10 episodes tell your story and because games adapted are usually not good…I think Druckman and Mazin decided how can we fit this in. To me I think we easily could of stretched and built season 1 into end of Fall, with Joel’s incident. I think they adapted and expanded well, I think folks wouldn’t mind Bill and Riley’s episodes, even Kathleen if we knew this was only half the story of 1. He’ll give us 7 episodes, cliffhanger and season 2 is another 7 to finish it. I suppose that might mean we’d have a lot longer of production and might mean there is a chance of interest being lost. I’m happy pt2 will be 2 seasons
@@hoyofan533 the fact that eps 3 got 73 mins of air-time and the finale is just 40mins is just dumb decisions. Ep 3 & 7 is all about Druckman and his gay woke agenda
The thing is, I don't think it was rushed. Most of what was they removed was the fighting, which is what the bulk of your runtime is in the game. The problem is that there were also a lot of character moments that happened during that time, usually between fights. Instead they happened as sort of dangling pieces between bits of travel, which isn't as visually interesting, and doesn't separate story beats as well. Moreover, it strikes me that the worry may have been that they don't want to be a story like the Walking Dead, which by many accounts well outstayed its welcome. That being said, among the better seasons of that show are some very Last-of-Us part 2 feeling arcs, such as the return to Atlanta in the later seasons. When it worked, which was most of the time (there were about 4 seasons that could qualify as under par, vs the majority which were not) it did, it juggled episodes of 360° combat, with heartbreaking and uplifting storytelling. And yeah, part of that has to do with the fact that their seasons were released in halves, and were usually 18-24 episodes long, but they were also based on much more material. Last of us as a game is maybe about an hour and a half longer than all of season 1, including combat. That is not a lot, and I don't disagree that trying to fill with that much combat might have gotten old. My disagreement comes from being so hard and fast about that rule. I hope they know better when it comes to season 2, which is based on part 2, a game which was intentionally written to feel like a descent into madness and hell.
This is a game I always wanted to show my brother, but I know he'd never play it. (He's not that into gaming) So getting to experience it with him through this show is something I really appreciate.
I don’t understand opting out to watch another hbo drama then to play the video game where your own choices matter and you get to explore on your own. Is he biased against video games?
Same. It's the same reason why adaptations exists in the first place. Not everyone is gonna read a book or play a game. This story is good enough to show it to a wider audience. And, unsurprisingly, the new audience loved it
I thought so too but I feel like it missed a lot of the weight, emotion, relationship building, and extremely dark moments that the game had. My parents really liked it but all I could think was how absolutely jaw droppingly good the game was. Im seriously considering booting it up and just playing through it for them to watch to actually see how incredible it really is.
Honestly I appreciate that the game and show have something different to offer for people however they decide is best way they enjoy media. You get something different out of each and I'm so glad that the show is going into the second game with additional seasons.
Somewhat different? Did you enjoy the nonstop LGBT propaganda? Literally every highlighted romantic relationship was gay. It’s beyond representation. It’s propaganda. The games had these themes but hinted at them rather than hamfisted rainbow flag in your face.
The Last of Us Show makes me have a deeper appreciation for the medium of video games. It is not, as some might say, an inferior, immature medium. It does some things no other medium can.
Today I learned that you can stab the surgeon with his own scalpel... god that's violent. The biggest issue I had with the show was the pacing. It really felt way too rushed and the world definitely felt empty. It's true that for a TV show, they couldn't rack up the same body count for actual people and I don't take much issue with that, but it was also incredibly lacking in infected. It really decreased the value that Ellie's immunity would benefit the world (if it was even effective or able to be distributed which I don't believe it would be). It didn't feel important to get Ellie to Salt Lake City because the cure didn't feel vital to survival in the world, just a small benefit. They also really seemed to miss the close bond that Ellie and Joel make throughout gameplay moments, little bits of levity throughout the violence. The only thing I really liked about the show was the performances, but it fell flat with the pacing.
they could of if they didn't waste hours and made every episode 30 min and not to a budget of millions per episode, it was just poorly planned budget ruclips.net/video/dgKVmB80wzs/видео.html - all the shows problems summed up
@@marcusclark1339 The problem is the guy that made that video is highly biased against Neil Druckmann, so nothing that guy ever makes will be enough for the guy making the video. Not saying I disagree but thats not a good video to suggest, its like asking someone with lactose intolerance to list their favorite cheeses - its just not gonna happen
I think we needed about one episode's worth of extra material, spread out over the last three episodes. Even then, you could condense it into three key action sequences: the upside-down shootout (happened in Bill's town, but could be anywhere), mill fight alongside David (builds trust with him before the reveal), and then the tunnels before Salt Lake City where Ellie almost drowns (pays off her inability to swim, primes us to fear for her life, mirrors the scene with Joel's daughter at the beginning as the Fireflies take them captive). Just a liiiiiiitle bit more action and danger in the world, showing Ellie becoming more competent from what she's learned from Joel, along with some more breathing space to see the growth of their relationship.
I honestly felt HBO executives wanted to take a big risk with this show, but not give them the budget to do more episodes and show more infected, in case it didn't do well, so they won't operate at a loss, which they're going through some turmoil at WB-Discovery. Next season their budget is probably getting increased and the infected will be shown more, hopefully. I didn't have a problem with it, since the show made them out to be bigger threats when they were on-screen
I honestly appreciate your meta comments about how nuance and change of perspective are basically extinct online. Also I hope whatever is stressing you can be overcome soon and you can take a chance to rest. Thanks for the video, regardless.
Yes! I think they took too much of the violence and tension out. The grimness of the world explains why Joel and Tommy felt they had to do terrible things to survive, why FEDRA is so harsh, why the Fireflies are so desperate to make the world better, and why Jackson feels like an oasis in the desert. Not including the violence makes the stakes of, "We gotta get Ellie to the Fireflies so they can make a cure and hopefully improve this nightmare world!" feel less dire. Having Joel as a strong, violent, killing machine makes his changing feelings towards Ellie that much more heartwarming. You feel like you've earned that moment where he calls her "baby girl". Plus, the plot importance of a place like Pittsburgh, a once major US city being turned into this hellscape full of Hunters as compared to the Boston QZ, shows exactly what Joel was talking about when saying they should avoid people. Then the importance of how terrifying it is when Ellie is alone while Joel is injured, kind of loses its sense of fear and urgency when you haven't been shown a dangerous world with death lurking around every corner. Also, the ending choice that Joel makes is way more selfish in the game world, considering how screwed up that version of the world is, than in the tv world where things don't seem as desperate.
Although I agree with you with all your points, I've always have had a problem with people saying Joel was took a selfish wrong choice, cause at least from the info we get from the Fireflies in the game, they are about to do a very stupid procedure to Ellie (a biologist trying to do surgery that kills the only immune individual in the world) but most importantly, without Ellie's consent, which maybe I'm applying 2023 ethics to 10 years ago, but that gives all the reason to Joel to save Ellie, maybe it was for "selfish reasons" in Joel's mind, however it was the ethically correct and logical decision.
It’s true that it is Ellie’s choice but the fireflies never gave anyone any choice in the matter. They kind of forced Joel’s hand in a way. Ultimately the whole thing feels really contrived by ND to get people arguing about whether it was “right” or not
@Casey Hart and that I think fizzled out all the tension the show had at least for me, instead of writing its wrongs and not focus on that point, they double down but with a rushed finale that even surprised me because it was so simple.
The show could have been perfect with more time. As the impact of the game(s) was significantly impacted by the passage of real time. We spent a LOT of time with Joel & Ellie in the game, the back and forth, placing ladders, just moving through the game. We build more of a relationship with the characters in the game to make that final crescendo all the more emotionally meaningful. And by the time Part 2 of the game came out. The story had been firmly cemented as iconic in the gaming space. And Joel & Ellie as characters were so well known in the gaming community as a whole, we all had an emotional attachment that had brewed with the game for a long, long time. This made the impact of the events in Part 2 astronomically more impactful to players. The show retells the story extremely well, but the emotional attachment never had time to form, since they cut alot of just downtime with Joel & Ellie in favor of fleshing out side stories and characters. And I suspect since season 2 is already in the making, the feeling will only remain. Don't get me wrong I cried and was emotionally affected watching the TV show aswell, but mostly because I already hold this story so dearly. For new viewers I can't imagine it will ever have the same effect. The show needed maybe 2 more episodes focused in on Joel & Ellie just bonding and it would have gone from amazing to perfection.
I still cant believe they gave Kathleen (by far one of the most miscast and unbelievable "villain" in the entire show) a 2 parter while David got literally 1 episode. What were they even thinking.
Are we forgetting that Kathleen’s story was also the story of how Sam and his brothers story played out? I really liked what they did with all of that but we should’ve seen a better adaptation of the bridge/river escape and the sewers imo I agree Kathleen probably would’ve had better impact with a different actress but I don’t think she was the main issue
I feel as if the director claiming on Twitter that deaths in video games don’t have any emotional impact or that games themselves aren’t able to do good storytelling is pretty telling of why the show wasn’t as good as it could’ve been. It feels like it’s more focused on being “better” and proving that “game bad/not good like tv show” by padding it out a ton than actually being not just an adaptation but making it the writer’s own, if that makes sense. Still has potential and I hope the next season improves on what it lacks.
Its abit much to claim thats what he said though. He was talking about ellie and joel mowing down dozens and dozens of humans, meaning those deaths had way less emotional impact in the game. He was not talking about big character deats at all.
@@SuperYxskaft Thanks for this added context, hadn't seen the quote myself so having the extra explanation from you is much appreciated. (Sorry that sounds sarcastic, it's mean to be genuine.)
@@Oliver-ob8pc hehe, no worries. Yeah, like I for sure can see how taken out of context that quote is kinda discouraging, but given the context it really means something completely different, and I have to agree with it even. Hard to have them mowe down alot of enemies in a tv-show compared to a game and still have the action sequences mean something. I loved the show, would have liked abit more action but I for sure understand their reasoning around it. I can really recommend watching the hbo podcast last of us, run by the creators and hosted by troy baker. Its alot of insight in how they were thinking and reasoning behind decisions. Really cool listening.
As one of my all time favourite game series, this adaptation definitely didn't do the game and it's story dirty. For me personally I don't think it hit on all of the elements and emotional moments that the game brought. But this could be because a game immerses you, where a show just brings you along for the ride. Although it definitely proved to want to tell this tale and show this world to a large audience in a sincere way, and not just for the sake of money or franchise building.
The final conversation between Joel and Ellie was really weak. In the show you had that feelling of "shIt, the game just ended no!! I want to know what happened", but in the show it feels soulless. I don't know how ti explain it but it doesn't have the same impact, it felt flat, like they were just reading the lines, it felt off.
Having only just watched the first 8 mins intro as I'm at work and can't finish all this in one sitting, I have to say your experience with the first game is the exact same as me, only I didn't even hype it up that much until only a few days before release when the reviews started coming out. I remember finishing it in about 17 hours over 2 days and being emotionally changed. I hadn't felt such strong emotions like I did during the giraffe scene with any other piece of entertainment and it fundamentally altered how I emotionally resonated with media. And I knew I wasn't going to have that same experience re-created with the show but I had quite high hopes given the show runners. And yes I did really like it, especially the first 3 episodes. But I felt as though all the emotional beats didn't land nearly as hard. One standout example is the Joel and Ellie confrontation in episode 6. I was more effected by Joel's outpouring of emotion to Tommy right before than I was with what was probably one of the most intense scenes in the entire game, which I felt was a strong moment in the show but in the game had my heart racing and tears flowing. I feel like your going to have much better explanations for why in the rest of the video haha
It's very likely they didn't land as hard because you had already experienced those emotional beats before. It stands to reason that you were more affected by emotioanl beats that weren't present in the game and therefore were brand-new for you..
@@Carabas72 Oh yes I'm fully aware, especially because the one part of the show that DID emotionally resonate with me was episode 3 which was completely new from the game. However having finished the video now, every point I would try to bring up would just be a worse version of how Ryan describes it, so I'll just say that I completely agree with all the points he makes and that they are what lead me to have the lack of strong emotional attachment that I have. I'm very happy to see so many people seeing the show first and loving it.
The whole point of this series is to get to part 2 of the series, and move on to the next project. It's very apparent to many fans that this is an attempt to make Ellie and Joel as they are in the 2nd game where they aren't remotely like their original selves.
There is a Quote from a movie that I think perfectly incapsulates Joel and why he is the way he is in both the game and show. It also works for Ellie in the Games second part. It's as follows "As the world fell, each of us, in our own way, was broken. It was hard to know who was more crazy… me or everyone else."
I still want to see Ridley Scott’s version of I am Legend unlike a lot of apocalypse horror films it deals with the true fear of isolation and lonlieness
Your take on the use of action and on the infected is spot on for me. I like what they did but I thought that it could be a lot more balanced. And exposition and reference are only 2, very small, aspects of story telling. Overall I agree with this take, but I think it’s clear that Joel saves the world at the end, in a Kantian sense, from the fruit of s poisoned tree, and that’s only if it would have worked.
Great video, I feel very much the same way as someone who loves the games. I really like that the series exists so that I can finally talk to my family and friends who don't play games but I still feel that TLOU will always be best as a video game because the story and the emotional beats pay off better with gameplay in between.
Even though I didn't like the game as much as You did, I wholeheartedly agree with what you said at the beginning. The building of Joel's and Ellie's relationship just didn't feel as it should. Many things felt somewhat rushed and just not earned enough. Overall the show really felt like a supercut of scenes from the game.
I really enjoyed the show, but I think the first game should have been two seasons. I felt the last two episodes were a bit rushed. My wife meanwhile has not played the game, and loved the show. She is asking me what happens next though and I’m not sure I should tell her. 😂
I really don’t see how this could have been spread over two seasons and it not drag. There’s also no way they’d risk only telling half the story, only for HBO to cancel it.
So glad to see someone else bring up The Walking Dead and how it used violence to both propel the story forward and also as way to grow or more often devolve the characters, particularly the protagonist Rick. Because in season 1, Rick takes a righteous stance against killing people, but as the show progresses and more and more of his family and friends are killed, by both people and the Walkers, Rick's sense of empathy dissolves and he reaches a point where he no longer thinks twice or even cares about killing people to save himself and those he loves (which is essentially where we find Joel after the 20 year time jump). Ellie in the game goes through a very similar journey, as the violence she witnesses Joel commit, which she then learns and does herself, as Ryan put it, breaks down her spirit and makes her colder and more cynical. So then when you reach that giraffe scene and on the roof she says "After everything I've done, it can't be for nothing", you really feel the weight behind what she's saying since you seen her partake in so much brutality. Whereas in the show, with the way it remove so much of the violence and made her engagements with any of the violence extremely passive (she just stands there while Joel is fighting the raider at the university), when she says the same line in the show, the intention and weight of it really falls flat, particularly in comparison. I definitely do agree however that The Walking Dead also isn't a flawless show either, but it is interesting how both it and HBO's The Last of Us suffer from pacing issues, just at opposite spectrums, with The Last of Us feeling very rushed and not giving many of the character arcs room to breathe and grow naturally, while The Walking Dead suffers from very languid pacing and over indulgence on trying to romanticize and build up many of the secondary characters that don't ultimately affect the story in drastic ways or end up dying a few episodes later anyway.
I do agree about the lack of persistence in the presence of the infected. It seems to be an issue with most if not all apocalyptic films and tv shows; that it becomes more about the human danger than the danger of disease or monsters or nature.
Well honestly, how many zombielike creatures would be around 20 years after an apocalypse? They lack higher intelligence to ensure their survival and can't just magically keep on living. I think 28 days later handled that quite well. The amount of infected in TLOU would be lower if most of mankind got taken out. The remaining surviving humans would become rather adept at taking them out, there's a reason we are dominating earth.
While I feel like this is the point, I also feel it's untrue about one example mentioned in the video: 28 Days Later. It managed to, while telling a human story, never forget about the zombies.
This is very in line with how I felt, the pacing and forced emotion was too much for me. I didn’t hate it and wouldn’t say it’s outright bad but it’s no master stroke unfortunately.
I really liked the show and I would give it a solid 8 but yeah I feel like it was super rushed as well as it talked to much about them feeling close to each other like parent and child but didn’t show it enough. As well as it didn’t show Ellie be taught and learning from Joel all those skills and so I’m curious as how they’re going to make believable that Ellie is so capable of destruction after losing her loved one like Joel did.
The thing I found with films/tv series based on games, no matter how brilliant they are they will never fully live up to the game. We play the characters in games, we have a bond with our characters because we feel what they feel and go through everything with them. In a weird way we form a bond with the character. And no film or tv show no matter how amazing they are can give the audience that same feeling or bond.
I wish that I could have seen the tv show with virgin eyes. I found myself constantly weighing the emotional beats against the game, which was aggravating. Some of the things I loved most about the show were when they spent time on side characters--but then that soured when the last episode was rushed. We got a whole episode of Bill and Frank, the longest episode in the series, actually. And yet... Marlene, undoubtedly one of the most important side characters, gets one short scene in a flashback and then a few lines at the start and finish. That's it. The final episode was far too short. It felt like a sprint to the finish line. Even a couple weeks later, I'm still not sure how I feel about the series. I think I liked it? When the show deviated from the game, it felt good and it felt earned (ep3 and then the Sam/Henry episodes with Kansas City instead of Pittsburgh, for example). When it went hard into matching the game elements, it felt rushed and somehow felt like it was missing something. The show really should have been about 12 episodes. It should have unpacked a lot more with Marlene, Left Behind, and even the surgeon.
The show seemed like it was taking its time with the characters and world building in some parts and then rushing though character development in other parts. Especially the final episode felt sooo rushed and how it's story wasn't split into two episodes is beyond me.
as someone who watched a sibling play through the game and loved the story but was bored (or maybe rather frustrated) by the fighting and more strictly “gameplay” aspects, the series is extremely accessible to me. i even got a friend into it. i really feel like the show is just Literally The Game But Also Better Somehow. i know due to time constraints they lost some of the subtle things. i do wish we’d had more “filler” time with Joel and Ellie just doing things in an apocalypse. and i do wish there’d been more on-off infected encounters, but at the same time, they made the zombies so OP (which i don’t dislike) that encountering them every five minutes would have made them seem less scary or dangerous tbh. if the series suffered, it suffered from HBO mini-ism, where each ep has to be a somewhat self-contained neat arc or *maybe* a two-parter, with only major threads or the grand arc stringing them all together. also bot enough eps in general. but these last two points come from studios/corps hedging their bets.
The video game is in so many ways superior to the show. The show was a good adaptation, but they missed the mark with a lot of the more deep, profound cutscenes/character arcs. The combat being ‘frustrating’ doesn’t take away the amazing storytelling and complex topics/characters.
I liked the show, but, I LOVED the game. I think people forget that there are more complex emotions and levels of enjoyment than love or hate alone. The show is nowhere near as good as the game but as a stand-alone piece and different medium altogether, it did ok.
Totally agree. My thoughts back then if there were a chance for a live action, the game is great, taking out all actions would make it a good interactive film. Like watching a complication of cutscenes.
I will say, 10 minutes into the video, that the show was the first experience my GF and I had with this story, and we enjoyed it throughout its entirety. The moments of hope, the moments of misery and horror, the emotional highs and lows, the development between Joel and Ellie. It all worked. If anything, we had a great sense of each episode's self-contained themes, and accompanying developments with characters and the world, that established the end of the season. We both knew what was coming with the arrival at Salt Lake City. Granted, I had the ending spoiled by overeager, excited friends years ago, but I certainly had a better understanding of Joel's motivations for going through such an unreal rampage at the end.
In regards to the disparity in the display of mercy, we felt as though that the Joel's barbaric execution of the teenage ambusher was not only him cutting a loose end, but he was also bring an end to a life that had lost any sense of innocence while trying to protect what innocence Ellie might have still. At the same time, I think that even then Joel was reminded of Sarah and did not want to continually reveal how monstrous the world, or he himself, had become. On the flipside, the elder sniper reinforced how Joel doesn't want to end up an old man without peace in his life. He gave the sniper a chance because he still wanted that chance someday.
I am loving all the various interpretations of the series! And I loved seeing this dive into the narritive choices and how it impacts the characters. Bravo! Also... amused that you love Ellie's actress portrayal and not so sure about the changes in Joel, considering the... discourse? that's been floating around since the start. Nice to see somebody have Actual backed up reasons for their opinions.
I throughly enjoyed the show and have played the game, but I thought it lost some of the violence and gritiness of the post-apocalyptic world that was The Last of Us. The raiders in Kansas City (a.k.a Pittsburgh) and their leader were a damp squib and they should have put in more clickers and runners throughout. They should have used 28 Days Later or 28 Weeks Later to inspire the runners (bar Episode 1 there was none of that frantic running after the characters which unnerves me) and should have used the portryal of raiders and bandits from The Road as inspiration for David's clique and Kansas City raiders. As a fan of horror genre, that would have made the raiders and zombies more terrifying for me. The action scenes were very meh for me bar Episode 1 and Joel's rampage through the hospital in Episode 9. They should have fleshed out to 10-12 episodes to allow for some extra Joel/Ellie conversations. That being said, for drama, acting, and fresh ideas thrown in, a solid 7.5/10 for me. Great review as always Ryan.
Fun thing I only very recently learned about cordyceps: It leaves the brain of its host intact, unaffected. It only controls pretty much everything else ("lesser nerves", muscles, etc). Meaning if there WAS an equivalent for humans, it would mean you'd be fully conscious but helpless as your body does whatever the fungus wants it to do :D
I have to wonder if HBO was too afraid of a video game adaptation failing to give it more episodes or commit to part 1 being multiple seasons. Now that it's a success I'm hoping part 2 is more fleshed out. The lack of infected was a bummer and I really think it made the world feel less dangerous. You can't have this threat that took humanity to it's knees and only briefly show it like 3 times over 9ish hours. Part of what made the Walking Dead (Early seasons and random episodes peppered throughout the later ones) and the George Romero movies (Even the Dawn remake) so good was you knew the zombies were just off screen at any time. While I really enjoyed this adaptation I never felt like the infected were a big threat through most of the show.
Man I feel you on all of this. I was trying to explain this to my wife too, who has not played the game. I feel the show is a decent summary but definitely not the de facto way I’d recommend getting the complete story, despite some of the positive changes. The second game though…we have very different opinions hah. I know you’re a fan and I don’t begrudge people who liked it, but it felt like a pale and hollow sequel to me. Your section on ludonarrative dissonance really reminded me of that. The moment to moment gameplay for TLOU2 and the choices both Ellie and Abby make in the gameplay do not at all reflect the story or the ending. The ending was so jarring to me because it didn’t reflect the Ellie that was built up through the game. Couple that with me actively loathing Abby and the sections with her, and it just left me totally disappointed. I know they tried hard to make the player empathize with Abby, but all of the actions felt out of order. The game makes you hate her, then tries to make you understand and like her, and it just didn’t work for me. A better example of this working in media though would be Peacemaker. Hated him at the end of Suicide Squad 2, but damn the show redeemed him and made you understand and like him. TLoU2 just didn’t do that for Abby in my eyes. It obviously did for others, which is good. It makes the game beats hit harder. But man everything about that game fell flat for me (minus the visuals and actual gameplay.)
The game covered a multitude of things about survival and relationships in a post-apocalyptic world, in particular Joel and Ellie's survival and relationship. The show covered the main theme Neil Druckman had in mind when he wrote the story for the game - exploring how love can be simultaneously the most beautiful thing in the world... and the most terrifying. They used Joel and Ellie's journey and growing relationship to show that even the most disastrous or murderous actions often come about because of love. So the show was a relationship thriller more than survival horror. Joel murdered innocent people because he was dead inside after losing Sarah, but he was still determined to keep Tommy alive because the last bit of love he felt was for his brother. As he started caring about Ellie, he didn't want to be that person anymore because he didn't want Ellie to be like that, and it awoke a lot of feelings that he failed Sarah and he was afraid he'd fail Ellie too. He pushed himself beyond human limits to save her from David and his crew, and it brought back some of the dad behaviors that Sarah knew from him. But in the end he loved Ellie too much to lose her like he lost Sarah, so he turned cold enough to save her by mercilessly killing the Fireflies, including Marlene. Frank's love turned Bill from a man who hated the world and was glad when it ended to a man who learned that at least one person was worth saving and loving and sharing his life with, and that Joel should do that too. Kathleen's love for her brother twisted her into someone who wanted revenge more than anything, and she had no compassion or understanding for anyone or anything else, even though her brother told her to forgive. While Henry betrayed her brother to save his own, she betrayed herself and everyone who believed in her in Kansas City to a horrific death at the hands of the infected she ignored to pursue her revenge. Meanwhile, Henry betrayed a good man to save Sam from one deadly disease just to lose him to another, resulting in both their deaths. The people of Jackson have a great place to live that works well for loving couples and families, but they kill enough people and leave the bodies behind to have that old couple frightened of going anywhere near them. Ellie remembered how her one kiss ended in Riley becoming infected and Ellie having to kill her. David's group fed his narcissistic need to be loved and admired and trusted by people (and other needs that I won't mention) and, in turn, he gave them someone to love and trust in to take care of them. That twisted mindset had some of them hunting and killing people for food when they had nothing else to eat - and it got David and his hunters slaughtered by Joel and Ellie. God only knows what happened to the rest of them. And in the end, Joel lied to Ellie because he loved her, and he didn't want to lose her love for him. The infected were mostly a plot device to put these characters into extreme situations in order to highlight the many aspects of love demonstrated in the show. But realistically, the further West you travel in the US, the less population there is outside major cities. I don't know why they didn't show at least some in Salt Lake City, but maybe we're supposed to believe the Fireflies cleared them out of that part of the city? It was probably more so they could highlight the giraffe encounter and how Joel and Ellie told each other they loved the other one without actually saying the words - something neither one seems good at.
I am so glad you made this video, I felt insane watching along with everyone else raving about how great the show is while I just couldn't connect to it, and at the worst times openly cringed at the forced and unearned emotional moments. I hated how Joel and Tess were like "we're bad guys we're so so bad!" like show us then!!!! Don't just tell! They should have kept them killing Robert in, it was vital to showing how ruthless they could be. And I hated how they made Ellie have violent tendencies right from the start, it really detracted from the emotional impact of her killing to save Joel, or killing David, when she seemed excited by murder from the very first episode. I'm only ten mins into this video so sorry if I'm just repeating points you make later lol. I think Joel was my biggest problem; they were afraid to show him be truly 'bad', too scared the audience wouldn't route for him, so they softened him up from the start which made his relationship with Ellie seem so underdeveloped to me- it feels like they skip to him thinking of her as a daughter way too soon. They spoon-fed the audience so much of the parallels too- like in ep one, the flashback to Sarah when they run into the military guy- that JUST happened! We didn't need a flashback! So on the nose. No hate to those who enjoyed it, but I just couldn't.
Despite your self critique at the beginning, I think you still made a really good argument. Thank you for enlightening me to critical aspects of the show I hadn't really thought about. As someone who watched the show before then playing the game, I adored almost every episode and even the weaker ones for me were still extremely strong, but I agree it definitely would have been nice to see more world building. In relation to hope and humanity, personally I enjoyed the show taking a slightly less cynical path to the game because for me it allowed me to leave each episode wanting to come back and see more. Yes, I love watching and reading nihilistic doom and gloom like 28 days later, Threads etc. for the pure spectacle of horrific yet beautiful story telling, but too much extended nihilism just kills my passion for a story, especially in video format. It's why I refused to continue watching the Walking Dead after starting season 6, I just left each episode feeling sick. TLOU the show does a perfect balancing act for me of expressing the worst humanity has to offer whilst also providing just enough light to keep me hopeful of eventual catharsis and release, and thats why I loved it so much.
for me, this series did not explore the horror and action aspect as much as it should have been, from the game. The threat factor in the series was very limited, and at times unnecessary focus on characters which did not matter. Though well acted and shot, the camaraderie between the lead during the exploration and fight moments in the game was also missing much from the series. If they do not learn from the mistakes of this season and the second game, the next season will not be promising.
I'm interested that people don't seem to be talking much about how closely Kathleen worked as a mirror for Joel with the way she's characterised in the show, given that by the end of the show [spoilers I guess] Joel is doing exactly what she did, minus the resources that she had. Somebody needs a cure, so someone Kathleen loves is killed, so Kathleen hunts down everyone involved without mercy. It's almost too on-the-nose, but still makes her interesting in my view.
Season 1 should have been the one with the many monsters and action since it was a race to get from point A to B with challenges in-between Season 2 should be the one with less monsters since the entire story is about revenge and the consequences of your choices
You're right. You also have to ground people in the world, without danger the adventure poses very little threat and it makes Joels presence, Ellie's cure and the stakes and choices being made at the end all meaningless. Who cares about a cure if there isn't much danger and why does Ellie even need protection. It's tell, don't show and that IMO is bad writing. There doesn't also need to even be action scenes, I don't think anyone cares about action in The Last of US.
I feel they kinda blew the load with that since we see the “revenge and it’s consequences story” about 2-3 times in this season. Most notably the Salt Lake City group and David’s group.
@@DJRxx24 they were in danger in episodes 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9. Most people would have died in many of these episodes. Gameplay is not the same as real life.
This was a fascinating watch, mostly because our experiences were so fundamentally different. I think there was only one episode that didn't bring me to tears. 😅 imo Pedro's Joel starts off cynically pragmatic in his violence, an executioner out of necessity. Ellie's tough-girl bravado from the start read to me as a parallel to Joel- he is the kind of person she wants to be seen as: intimidating & deadly. I think it disturbs him to see that in a child, especially as he grows to care about her. Ellie not only gives him something to fight for, but a mirror for self-reflection. It starts to melt some of the walls he's built around himself that were foundational to that ruthlessness. As he sees the potential for healing, he starts to envision the man he could become- living a quiet life, re-embracing his long-lost passion for music, etc. His overall brutality gradually lessens except in moments where he's facing the threat of losing Ellie (like the torture of David's men). The hyper-violent massacre at the end was a tragic end cap to that character arc- a grim acceptance that this is his true nature, there is no point in fighting it- not when it could save Ellie and keep him from reliving the loss of his daughter. From his perspective, he's sacrificing that peaceful, better man that he could have been for Ellie's sake. It's only in the aftermath that he has doubts, constructing the lie to protect the bond he's built with her. That rant aside, I do wish they'd had a few more episodes to improve the pacing and allow more time for Ellie & Joel to bond.
I really think that, with the exception of episode 3, every change to the story didn’t work in the story’s favor? Ellie and Riley playing Mortal Kombat instead of using their imagination, or whoever the villain of the Sam and Henry arc was (I really couldn’t care less about that storyline) There were moments where I was watching the show re-enacting scenes directly from the game and I couldn’t feel anything. It didn’t feel earned, Ellie with the magazine fucking with Joel didn’t feel earned.
As a piece of media enters the cultural zeitgeist people are excited to be part of something; it's wonderful to have shared experiences. I think you're correct in stating that our opinion's change given time hoyever. I will say, It is unfair to view someone that gives thoughtful analysis as pretentious. Many people don't think critically about the media they consume and take constructive criticism of their favourite media, as a slight against themselves. I'm absolutely sure that I'm guilty of doing so myself. Having said all that, storytelling is one of humanity's greatest gifts and I appreciate that you are able to expound so thoroughly on the scary stories we share. Another awesome and insightful video! Hail yourself, Ryan.
"In this effort to make it seem more deep, they make an already deep story seem shallow" sums up exactly how I feel about the show. I'm in the same boat that I really like it, like I really really like it, but it's so unfortunate that we have the game to compare it to since the game is constructed so painfully well.
I think the game format just works so well for this kind of story because it gets to be more drawn out, and people can take their time and discover moments on their own and feel the pressure and fear and exhaustion of survival because they are literally in control and the characters could die if they make a mistake (granted, the death isn't permanent, but you have to make an effort to keep it from happening). You can't have that same affect in a TV show, so the best you can do is try to communicate stakes in other ways, which I don't know if the show always ended up mastering. It definitely had a rushed feeling to it, even if I liked all of the episodes I watched individually it didn't all feel like it "flowed" in a natural way. And even though I found myself taken with the emotions within a scene, when I finished each episode, some of them really didn't stick with me. Unfortunately the finale was one of the more anticlimactic episodes for me and left me just feeling a bit weird, or unsatisfied or something. Like, I can't say I hated the show or even disliked it, but I also can't say that I loved it. It had some great moments, and it'll be interesting to see how they do part 2, but I'm weirdly un-invested.
As a game fan, Ryan fan, and generally enjoyed the show, excited to see what your thoughts about the show were! There were definitely things I wished they didn’t change, but I kinda understand why some changes were made!
@@raymondsims7042 I personally think it had good acting, the cast did a good job and the set pieces were great. There are some pacing issues, and certain things I wish were done closer to the game, but I appreciate the work they’ve done in the adaptation and expansions on the lore and mythos of the world
I agree with most of these criticisms. If anything, it makes me appreciate the game's achievement in using ludonarrative dissonance in an interesting way. Building up Joel as a typical game protagonist killing machine creates the expectation that we'll have the same dissonance we normally get, where the actions of the character when we play them are those of a bloodthirsty sociopath, but the character in the cutscenes is completely different. The ending of TLOU trups us up by saying, "Nope! He is exactly what you saw when he killed those dozens of people, and how else could that person possibly respond to this situation?"
I would love to address each of your points individually, but that would just be an entire essay in itself XD I'm sad you had such a negative response to the show -- but I would like to ask, have you actually replayed the game any time recently? I wonder if there is some rose-tinted glasses going on here. I loved the show (having played the game years ago and loved it as well). And now I am replaying the game, and I'm surprised by A) how much of the show was not directly from the game (because it sure felt like it to me), and B) how much their changes really do help the adaptation as a show WORK. For example, to your point about the world being more bleak in the game -- I honestly don't feel much difference between the game and show. The game has a TON of downtime, and honestly I find the game's encounters with humans to be far more fraught and meaningful than the infected encounters. And to your point about the spores -- it's only when your characters put on the gas masks that you really feel any danger -- aside from when you're around humans -- so I really don't feel like the show is all that different (like, being around humans in the show feels way more dangerous than times just spent wandering around, same as the game). Because they covered the entire arc in 1 season of TV, I think they did an amazing job changing certain beats to emphasize the theme which is -- "How far would you go for those you care about?" Changing Joel to be more of the cynic who is suppressing his emotions and Bill to be the more hopeful one perfectly aligns with that theme, otherwise Joel's actions at the end really aren't going to make much sense or be as impactful (given the runtime and the differences in adaptation, ie, the fact that you aren't the one playing Joel). Anyways, this already got way too long, but I am just really surprised you have such a negative take when I honestly just see the show as nailing it -- the same tone and themes are there, just adapted so that they play better on screen and in a non-interactive medium. Love your content though. I hope you give it another chance sometime.
I will say as someone who played the game, DLC, and sequel for the first time about two months before the show came out, I will say I was unable to watch the show past the fourth episode because of a lot of the changes done and it just pissed me off more than had any enjoyment for me. Perhaps when the the game and how it made me feel isn't so recent in my mind, I could finish the show, but even recently, I tried to get through episode four and was just unable to, so maybe that day will not come. That's not to say the show is bad itself. Yes, there are genuine problematic things in it that should be talked about in the portrayal of secondary female characters in comparison to the strong and multilayered writing of them in the game but because neither you nor him discuss it, I wouldn't talk about it here. I think it is but that's more of my own opinion and the recent impact the game had on me and I just don't think this game was able to be adapted and it still keep the same emotions and feelings the game does. Giving the show more episodes likely wouldn't have helped the issues the show had.
The problem of translating a game to a show is that the amount of breathing room a game gets is unmatched, and you're able to pace yourself at whatever rate you like for the most part, and characterization also happens at your own pace so it's much easier to get attached to the characters in that medium imo. A better example of this would be in JRPGs where you might not have a story related bond with a character, but instead you develop one based on "gameplay personality" which you probably projected onto them. I think the time and quality put into the show was admirable and I would never say it ruined the source material, but it being so tight paced and knit together so strong that we don't get the emotional tender beats that make this story run in the first place is a genuine flaw. The TV show can't just expect us to accept the relationship without more foundation, and it wasn't for a lack of trying, they just needed more space. It's maybe one of the reasons I don't like the episode with Riley just a bit, cause yes it contexualizes Ellie, but if you didn't have that, you could have maybe made Joel and Ellie's relationship more real with an episode more of real estate. Overall I adored the show episode to episode, only really disappointed with the rushed finale, and even then it wasn't bad.
I thought episode 3 was a wonderful piece of storytelling, a great, wistful love story, I just wish it hadn't taken up an episode of a show that already feels like it lacks so much, both in the way of action scenes and characterization of our main character. It's true, as Ryan says, that episode 3 does pay off for the main characters in teaching Joel to live for something (though we have a couple of other scenes with Ellie with, I'd argue, pretty much the same payoff) but in a show that rushes so many other emotional payoffs, it felt like a weird prioritization to dedicate an entire episode to these two guys who only show up in this one episode. The balance between the main characters and side characters in many cases just feels a bit off. Either we learn too much of side characters or not enough, and I tended to feel frustrated because I wanted to go back to Joel and Ellie most of the time.
Interestingly enough I didnt think David coming after them as revenge, in part because it was only one death. Revenge aka "justice" is a nice excuse, but David wants Ellie and a horse and an extra body to feed his people. the second game never really crossed my mind. I didnt much think about the lack of "survival" but I guess youre right. I think it crossed my mind somewhere during episode 3 or 4 and I shrugged thinking it would probably be very difficult to make game mechanics interesting to watch, as in infinite looting and crafting, or infinite fighting with people or infected and racking up an insane body count and kinda left it there. Im still not too sure how to make that exhaustion to come through in a series, but I agree it was definitely missing. I also agree on making Ellie somewhat softer, which might prove interesting to what story they are planning on telling in season 2. I personally didnt like a lot about how tlou 2 was handled so im hoping for a massive rewrite :D
Your mention of the “Netflix effect” is correct… kids/teens/early 20s people nowadays are so oversaturated with instant gratification that anything requiring more than 10 seconds thought or critical thinking, is considered boring. Hellish things like TikTok are one of the major things to blame.
Had me until right at the end when you say it's all about him. It wasn't about him at all and that viewpoint makes my skin crawl, it's so jaded and cynical. The proof of this is in one of the final scenes in the TLoU part 2 where he tells Ellie that if he could do it all over again knowing that Ellie would find out and essentially banish him from her life, he would make the same choice. It was never about Joel not wanting to live without Ellie (he did that even though he saved her), it was Joel wanting Ellie to experience all that life has to offer, even in a post-apocalyptic world and even though it wasn't the choice she would have made. You don't have to agree with the choice but it wasn't selfish, it was love in it's purest form warts and all.
Controversial take? Druckmann clearly needed that "second creative voice" to create amazing things, and since losing it things for Naughty Dog getting worse and worse, as he constantly overestimate his talent and currently is more focused on creating himself as a brand that actual storytelling. It if ofc my opinion only for now, but I can totally see him dragging ND down as this continiues...
In summary the video essay explains that the television adaptation was only nine short episodes long. It squandered the little time it had on some poor narrative decisions rather then bolstering the relationship of the two main characters that people fell in love with in the game. Making the adapted content from the game ring shallow and undeserved when it came to the growth of Ellie and the changes in Joel. Which I agree, less is more when it comes to those side characters when you have limited episodes to work with. The infected was also treated in the same manner.
I agree with you 100%. They missed the main point- building the relationship between Joel and Ellie. I also wish we saw more infected and especially clickers. It would have been nice to show them focus on the stealth aspect more.. I was so bummed about Pittsburg. I agree with you that the 1st season just felt rushed. Surprisingly, I liked the Bill episode. It was a huge change but well done. All of the episodes should have been at least as long as that one. Especially the last episode- 45 minutes- really?
My only real problem with the show is as you explained, the diluted tone. The story is more-or-less exactly the same, with a few mostly insignificant changes- almost all of which are additive, not reductive. The one that is reductive though- in most ways, is the policy with the show- according to both lead writers and executive producers, to cut down on the violence. The premise of that policy is sound: this is a TV show, not a videogame, so the fear was that if they gave the show as much of a focus on fighting people, or zombies then it would get grating over time. The issue I have is that they've done it to the point that two episodes which were based on memorable chapters in the game that had a focus on brutal combat, had the actual fighting reduced almost to nothing, or a short montage in the show. The result is that the episodes are less tense. There's never really a moment in the season finale, which sees Joel cutting down a group of men (avoiding spoilers) who want to kill Ellie, where you feel like he might fail. Instead, there's the scene in the stairwell, he gets the upper hand, and then it turns into a "when the doom music kicks in" supercut. My hope is that they see people making this criticism, and acknowledge the theme of rage from the 2nd game as an opportunity to cut loose as far as the violence goes, because the entire point of that story is that she lets things get out of hand until the very end. Of course, none of that is to say that I didn't thoroughly enjoy the show. As I said, this is my **only** criticism of it, really. I also would've liked to have seen more of Bill being a cantankerous old fuck, but I also wouldn't want to do anything with that episode, which absolutely broke my heart with how good it was.
I never really respected Last of Us as a game. The tone was full of misery and didn't portray anything we hadn't seen before, so I always chalked up the hype to it being a super polished experience that was so self-serious it would read as mature in a time when gamers were super self-conscious about being recognized as a legitimate art form. (And Last of Us was the last thing I wanted to represent games as art, since its AAA oil-and-water gameplay and storytelling never meshed into the sort of sublime ludonarrative experience the medium is capable of, IMO.) The show only further emphasized to me that the game was a glorified cutscene delivery device, since I didn't miss *any* of the combat encounters. Sure, the episode count could have been bigger and characters could have been better written, but I ultimately enjoyed the adaptation far more than the original and think it demonstrates a shame of the game industry that many of our most celebrated directors would rather ape Hollywood style than play to the strengths of the medium. P.S. Despite my appreciation for the TV series, it's still only the 2nd best video game adaptation after the Animal Crossing movie.
The show is fantastic but it's funny to me that HBO is spending tens of millions on what is a live action cut scene compilation. It's like the most expensive fanfic ever.
No, The Rings of Power is the most expensive fan fiction. 😜 I liked The Last of Us tv-show and I am not a fan of zombie movies. I have never played the game, but as movies based on computer games go, this one seems to be way better than other attempts. I mean, it is enjoyable, feels more than a quick cash grab and fans of the game don't seem to despise the show.
@@user-qj9en1kp1m Good point on The Rings of Power. I actually like TLOU quite a bit. That's even considering Ryan's spot on critiques. The acting is superb and I'm a sucker for post apocalyptic anything really.
the truth is that I've only seen the show, and I loved it, but just seeing some of the gameplay, I'm sure that the lack of infected is the missing ingredient, the action scenes that they would introduce, Joel and Eli's interactions in the middle of an attack, to see the magnitude of the threat in action and not mostly its traces and most importantly, the weight of Joel's decision. In the series the world has fallen, but the society is rising again, the threat of the virus is minimal compared to the game (including that it spreads through the air). Watching the series, it seemed to me that Eli's sacrifice would be more than anything a strategic advantage for the fireflies, being the only ones with a cure. In the games it seems that she is seriously humanity's last hope.
I know a lot of people drag the show for having little action, and how much "filler" the show had with Ep 3 & 7. But to me those kinds of episodes were my favorites from the season cause they were so good in getting to let me know and see who or how the characters are in their present day. I wish we could've had a 13 episode season and we could've had maybe 3 or so episodes like this where we get to just experience the characters living and evolving together.
I love the game and have played it so many times since first release (haven't played the second, not sure I can bring myself to!) and enjoyed the series a lot. But it absolutely had flaws and my biggest nitpick is the lack of infected - I really love the idea of the world and monsters in TLoU and I wish we'd gotten to see more of the creatures ! That being said only 9 episodes just wasn't enough to solidify what they wanted to do. I am happy it exists and thankful it was made with so much love and care. I'm glad to see more discussions around it as the game and series deserves it! Oh! And it's nice to bring in family and friends in my life who aren't into games (and heck, think they're all for children and a waste of time) and show them something in another format they can appreciate. It really shocked my parents to find that it was pretty close to the game and then started asking me about it. Now my dad is happily playing TLoU1!
I’ve always held the same sentiment as you Ryan! “Action is storytelling” seeing characters react to the traumatic surroundings, characters dying, fighting for the lives of others, can bring out serious emotion and heighten the fear and intensity of a story. House of the dragon could learn from this. It is exceptional, beautiful, well acted, but there’s far too much talking about doing stuff than actually doing stuff. GoT did follow a similar theme but they at least sprinkled in action sequences and battles that made us engage and worry for our favourite characters.
I think the lack of infected fights/encounters worked better for the medium. It made it feel a lot more powerful when we finally saw how brutal Joel could be to protect Ellie in the final few episodes. We would have been pretty desensitized to it if he'd been killing stuff every episode.
They didn't need to have Joel fight the infected. They could have been an obstacle Joel and Ellie needd to avoid (considering the new infected hivemind in the show)
@@sev1120 True. And at times, they were used as an obstacle, though they appear at nothing close to the rate they do in the game. I personally found it more effective to show them sparingly (stealth missions and zombie fights are fun in video games but start to feel repetitive, slow paced and/or jump-scary on TV), but your mileage may vary on that.
I wish i had seen the show with no memory of the game, because every time they had a scene or line that was identical it just pulled me out entirely and made me want to play the game again.
As a fellow lover of the game you nailed your criticisms of the series. I would love to hear your opinion on part 2. I think it was plagued with pacing issues and incoherent character writing imo.
My biggest takeaway was the sense of haste the show seemed to move with, regulating not only story beats to quick run times but a number of moments featuring beautiful cinematography to mere seconds. One only has to look at the durations of the episodes to see this, including the last episode which is half as long as the pilot.
My ultimate issue with the show, was that there was so much goddamn waste. The biggest example I can think of, is the black woman who we're shown in a flashback, getting into a military truck, and then a skeleton is shown in front of the characters. There was no need for the flashback scene, it took us away from our PoV. It didn't even add any information. The skeleton by itself lent up against a wall with holes in the wall, that the characters walk past would've been less clunky.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt the series fell flat. Things felt overly explained (followed by commentary by the creators which overexplained what was already overexplained) and still underdeveloped. This as a 13 episode series could have been really incredible. I found myself craving things like the dam adventures with Tommy as a means for Tommy and Joel's relationship to be developed. In the show they just have a series of stagnant conversations where they explain all their feelings. It doesn't put the work in, but relies on the existing love for the game and the love for the actors to do the heavy lifting. My main issue with Joel that Ryan didn't actually cover was the addition of him having panic attacks only for that to never be brought up again. It's the perfect encapsulation of the way the show takes something subtle and complex (man with PTSD from losing his daughter in front of him) and makes it more literal (man with PTSD from losing daughter in front of him has panic attack right before our eyes because he's so stressed about losing new daughter figure). It was just to on-the-nose for me. And Joel crying to Tommy? Didn't even feel like the same guy as the games. Anyway, great commentary thanks for being a voice of criticism from a place of love.
i thought it was gonna be 22 episodes since it was a proper tv show not streaming, but when i found out it was gonna be 9, i knew it wasnt gonna be flushed out and made sense why they ended some side plots so quickly
Why?! Why does everyone complain about the clickers? The clickers as pointed in this video and the TV show is that they are limited to certain areas, especially because of the way they are as "creatures". The infected are in almost all 9 episodes and even when they aren't they are mentioned. The worst part is they were able to represent every form of infected in the TV show and in different ways than the game. Honestly in a more terrifying way with the Mycellium network. In a video game, death is more pervasive due to the fact that you CAN die and the anxiety of it happening AGAIN is constant. In a TV show, this is not possible with Ellie and Joel. If you could easily beat every level of the The Last of Us, if you could dispatch Clickers with just a bat or plank of would, nobody would've been scared. The show can not kill Joel or Ellie if it did the fanbase would be in an uproar about how the show deviated so far from the series. So they use the danger and death of other characters to try and recreate the feeling. Same reason someone who has played the game may not be as attached to this Elli and Joel as the game version because you actually get to play as them. You as the gamer have to literally walk in their shoes. You have to carry Ellie. You have to save Joel. You have to save Ellie again before she's eaten by either humans or clickers. You are disconnected on a TV screen. Also the sheer amount of people you encounter in the game is actually completely unrealistic based on how empty the world is supposed to be. So the absence is more accurate. Despite those bits the show definitely has its issues.
Couldnt agree more. Show wasted time on what is not important, iinstead of exploring what is really important - Joel and Ellie relationships. So many best moments cut out. it is a good show but it can never compare. To people who never playd the games - do it. it is, INFINITELY, better.
As a non game player for TLoU I can at least appreciate your critique and knowledge about some of the BTS for context without it coming off cynical and acknowledging up front your opinion is formed with the knowledge it may change
Great insights as usual from this channel. Made me reflect about the moral decisions on this story even deeper than I already have. I may even give the series (so far) a chance. On a side note, many years ago I watched the documentary "The world without us", now that I know there's a book I have to read it.
I can't WAIT to play The Last of Us on PC in 3 days. After watching the show (and yes, playing the game here or there over the years on PSNow on PC) I'm super pumped to really get into the game considering how good the show was. Bella Ramsey was perfect as Ellie imo, I get it some people can't get over the fact Bella doesn't look like Ellie in the game, but that's such a trivial thing to complain about. The whole point of acting is you know, acting. And Bella nailed Ellie if you ask me. Pedro Pascal made his Joel, his Joel. And considering what the 2nd game does and where it goes, I think it works well. Not to mention as a Trek fan, I've had to deal with the horrid section of the fandom that just can't get over "NuTrek" etc so having to deal with people who can't deal with the show being different than the game in some ways. And the whole Bill and Frank thing, oh boy. Why people can't just see things for what they are instead of what they "think" things should be, is beyond me.
Playing the game for the first time in 2023, I wish I could go back in time to play it when it came out. The games of 2013 all felt so special, and The Last of Us felt like such a huge deal, Video Game Oscar Bait in the best possible way.
I love your review, Ryan. I generally liked this show, especially the way they fleshed out doomed characters such as Sarah, Frank, Bill, Sam, Henry and Riley. Although it wasn't perfect, it was a solid show, and I'm excited for Season 2.
They didn’t flesh out Bill they replaced him. I was excited that we would be getting more about Bill because he’s a cool character and I loved him in the game. I thought maybe we would get some backstory about him and Frank considering the note you find in the game implies that Frank hates Bill. But instead they stereotyped them and made them quite boring.
Ryan if you enjoyed The Last of Us, have you considered playing LISA The Painful? It's very similar in themes and story(stoic man with dark past wants to keep a girl he sees as his daughter safe) but has a layer of comedy and lively characters so the story is not sad all the time, I consider it one of the best indie games around and I think you'll enjoy it too. Would love hearing your thoughts on it
Race mixed 90% of the cast, only had infected in less than half the eps, made Ellie a bitch instead of a sassy teen, 2 filler eps in an already short season that’s only purpose was a gay love story, add in unnecessary politics. The show was hardly passable, yet gets a Ton of praise.
*So eh... what should I cover next?*
Click vessi.com/RYANHOLLINGER and use my RYANHOLLINGER for 15% off your entire order! Free shipping to CA, US, AU,JP, TW, KR, SG.
The Experiment (2001) is one of my favorites of all time, and tells a dramatized version of The Stanford Prison Experiment.
Day of the Dead. The best of George Romero's zombie films.
m
"Fright Night" in anticipation of Renfield.
90 9
Personally, I'd have been up for the six hour deep dive into the relationship between Cormac McCarthy's books and The Last of Us.
Let's not forget that Children of men also inspired TLOU, and also have somewhat similiar plots.
Came here to say Children of Men
Totally forgot about Children of Men!
Carmac MacArthur?
@@RyanHollinger A middle aged guy that lost his child and lost his hope. Drinks and doesn't care about anyone. Gets paid to transport a young woman. Traveling partner dies. Woman turns out to be the/a last hope for humanity to survive. Regains his humanity.
Children of men and the fishes is one of the reasons I never really trusted the Fireflies either, would they even have tried to save all of humanity if they discovered a cure. Or would they have used it to their own advantage, to gain power for themselves.
It really felt like they needed a few more episodes. I don't know if it was budget or time but if this was even a 12 episode season I think it would've been better.
time is budget, in the end the purse strings are the final arbiter
@@jasonhunter2819 That's true. So they should have spent more time developing the Joel and Ellie relationship instead of on pointless side plots and tertiary characters.
@@jasonfenton8250 why? the relationship was fully evident and felt, you don't need to repeatedly drag through the exact same mud to get the fucking point...well unless you're an idiot I guess
they flew through the story but then invested WAY too much time in characters who at the end of the day served absolutely no purpose to the overall plot - bad show
@@weston407 congratulations on missing the point of the show because you just needed a plot summary
Something else that kinda bugged me about the David's group episode; when he's talking about how strong Ellie is and how she's just like him and so on... in the game they've had time to take out infected together where she can show that fact. The line doesn't feel as earned in the show, but that's just me idk.
Never played the game, but I took it as David trying to groom her and him not being very subtle about it
He wanted to f*ck her. That’s it. Pedophile would do anything to lure a young kid to sleep with him.
I have never played the game but it seemed to me that David had...creepy reason (to put it mildly) for saying those things. At least that's what I got from the acting.
BRO ALL YALL BOTS
in response to the other too response (OP seems like a bot too but whatever)
In the game he is also being creepy when he says this, the point OP is making is that without the hunting of the infected where he sees how she Carrie’s herself, it’s not as effective of a line because him and Ellie don’t have a rapport, it comes off as him playing his cards too early but in the game they spent a good bit longer where he was trying to gain her trust
@@GibbypastramiNone of these comments seem like bots lmao wtf
it's very weird because you've touched on most of the nitpicks I've had with the series aswell. It's very well made, very well acted but it was also very hard to not compare it constantly with the game (apart from episode 3 and the openings of episode 1 and 2).
But it feels like they took the "written" story and adapted that but in truth, like the game director of the remake said "Every part of this game is telling the story". Every part. The story of The Last of Us isn't anything to write home about on paper, but when playing the game, the executions makes it so special.
It's the fact that WE are playing Joel, it's the fact that we're constantly viewing the world from HIS point of view, the fact that we actually spend hours in one place, discovering the place instead of a montage. There's a continuity of action that puts us WITH these characters IN this world that works so well. The TV show weirdly felt... TV looking to me, I wish we could have had something akin to Andor. The post apocalyptique world felt... dressed.
Anyway I'm rambling, It's a very well written video, absolutely nailed !
Maybe the limited PoV itself is what makes it feel unique? since in the game we are playing as Joel, means we are experiencing (witnessing) how the story goes from his eyes only, while the series jumped between few characters.
Edit: For example, in the game we only know about Bill and frank story from what bill tells joel, while the series they show the their entire story.
What is well acted???
@@CordeliaWagnerThe show, acting and set design are it's strongest parts
ruclips.net/video/dgKVmB80wzs/видео.html sums up the problems
Very good take
It's interesting to hear someone who has played the games talk about the series, cause as someone who has not played the games and watched the show first, I'm really interested to know what was done differently in the adaptation and how people who've played the game feel about the show
The biggest change is inhaling spores aren’t the main mode of transfer and also the total gayficstion of all relationships.
These relationships were there but hinted at not an entire episode of bearded men kissing and singing Linda Ronstadt.
Imo, the show padded too much and added useless scenes/characters instead of spending more time on the most important aspect of the entire series-Ellie and Joel. They cut out or changed some of the best moments significantly, the pacing is mostly very fast and the relationships have no time to develop. There’s literally like 30 minutes between Joel telling Ellie to never ask him a single thing about his past and then the long ass monologue when they’re driving. Too much unnatural connection. This is largely because they remove huge gameplay sections with amazing character interactions and dialogue. Like Ryan said, it’s basically a cutscene supercut of the game.
There’s wayyyy too much on-the-nose moral lessons just tossed in. It lacks in any subtlety.
Also didn’t like Ellie’s actress in the show. All of the humor/anger/swearing felt shallow and forced. The same way her character in Game of Thrones felt shallow and forced; “Hey, I’m fuckin angry and tough! I say shit and fuck a lot! That makes me badass!” Her quieter moments were pretty good. Not as good as Ashley Johnson, but good.
As someone who appreciates the game story, I actually didn’t mind that padding and things being drawn out. It’s a tv adaptation. It’s like when marvel fans nitpick a lot of the MCU(which there’s much to go on about the state of that) they want things to be a cookie cutter copy to the stories and characters they are familiar with. I felt like the show was great for people who don’t care for the game or games in general. Just like the game it’s not for everyone but I disagree about the Bella Ramsey hate I think did a great job at making Ellie her own instead of tryna mimic Ashley Johnson. In her first appearance it was meh but she grew into it. I think she kept the child like moments genuine and she feels like she tries to be tough bc that’s literally what Ellie is. A kid trying to be tough.
Everyone can have their opinions I personally enjoyed it as a separate version of a great game. It blows that they condensed the entire game in 9 episodes, but for what came from it I could give respect/credit where it’s due. Though I’m not too sure how them cramming part 2 in 9 episodes would turn out I don’t have high hopes for that….
@@ReIigionlsForIdiots the "Gayification" of relationships implies turning characters gay who weren't previously.
Bill and Ellie are both canonically gay in the game already. The episode with Bill and Frank was one of the highlights of the whole show for me despite being where it departs fartherst from the game.
@@_hedwyn Ellie was gay in the game? I can't remember that that was ever referenced though to be fair it's been a while since I played it.
Part of the problem with video game adaptations (especially in survival horror) is that a lot of the tension and anxiety you get from playing the game yourself is removed so you don't get that emotional catharsis and sense of relief after facing obstacles, bosses, and puzzles.
You're too far removed from the action so your emotions and adrenaline are dulled.
It reminds me to some old stand up joke: Unlike books, movie or music, video games need user's participation. Just imagine if in concert while we having fun suddenly the singer stop and ask audience some trivia, which if answer incorrectly they will repeat the song from the beginning and only continue if someone answer right. Or get kicked out from cinema if you can't do quick time event, and need to buy ticket to try again
Movie/tv are to WATCH, while video game are to PLAY
A good movie/show will make you feel this way if you let it.
For example, the first episode of TLOU HBO is perfection in that aspect.
Thats complete bullcrap when the show decided it wanted tenision and anxiety it achieved it. The problem is they didn't do it often.
Ultimately a video game will have more opportunities to explore ideas than a TV series, since a game's story can span for 40 hours and in most cases you're buying the whole thing. Meanwhile a TV show only gets so much time in a season, and you need to hedge your bets since there's no guarantee of a second season, even if things go well (looking at you, Mindhunter).
Mindhunter had two seasons though
@Sean Wegner yeah but there should have been a third !
the writers chose the episode count, and it was a 12 hour game when ran efficiently. What an idiotic comment
It's the same as a book adaptation. Things will be different. It's weird some gamers don't understand that. Maybe they never read books?
@@pulpficti 🤓
Apart from being rushed.
They made some weird changes that ruined/changed the impact of some key scenes.
For example, Joel being more open and emotional to tommy when they meet again & being honest to Ellie about how he feels about her, ruins the infamous convo of Ellie and Joel in the barn.
The whole point is that Joel made his heart a stone after the death of Sarah and wants to handover Ellie to not risk losing a daughter all over again. BUT, he'll NEVER admit this to himself.
The fact that Joel answered 'Ofcourse I do' when Ellie asked if he cared about her, ruined the entire meaning of that scene & ruined a big part of joel's character. He's not supposed to admit that he cares for her. He's supposed to do everything in his power to NOT care for her, he's supposed to DENY the fact that he cares for her in his head.
Just simple things like that, that they changed for no reason other then: look how emotional men can be - type shit.
It's a good adaptation, but I think the biggest problem with the show is that it's rushed, it needed more episodes to develop and flesh out Joel and Ellie's relationship in a natural way, it's the heart of the story and they just kinda rush through it most of the time so they can get to the next plot point as fast as possible, which makes the emotional moments between them not hit as hard as they should and it ends up feeling a bit forced, a contributor to that problem is that some of the episodes are more focused on side characters than Joel and Ellie (which wouldn't be a problem if they had more episodes to focus on Joel and Ellie)
I agree. Ep 3 and 7 were guilty of this. Those flashbacks should’ve been 30 mins shorter
I feel HBO was really on the fence on wether this could be as good as it was and the game. They probably said 10 episodes tell your story and because games adapted are usually not good…I think Druckman and Mazin decided how can we fit this in. To me I think we easily could of stretched and built season 1 into end of Fall, with Joel’s incident. I think they adapted and expanded well, I think folks wouldn’t mind Bill and Riley’s episodes, even Kathleen if we knew this was only half the story of 1. He’ll give us 7 episodes, cliffhanger and season 2 is another 7 to finish it. I suppose that might mean we’d have a lot longer of production and might mean there is a chance of interest being lost. I’m happy pt2 will be 2 seasons
@@hoyofan533 the fact that eps 3 got 73 mins of air-time and the finale is just 40mins is just dumb decisions. Ep 3 & 7 is all about Druckman and his gay woke agenda
@@Bampiss touch grass
The thing is, I don't think it was rushed. Most of what was they removed was the fighting, which is what the bulk of your runtime is in the game. The problem is that there were also a lot of character moments that happened during that time, usually between fights. Instead they happened as sort of dangling pieces between bits of travel, which isn't as visually interesting, and doesn't separate story beats as well.
Moreover, it strikes me that the worry may have been that they don't want to be a story like the Walking Dead, which by many accounts well outstayed its welcome. That being said, among the better seasons of that show are some very Last-of-Us part 2 feeling arcs, such as the return to Atlanta in the later seasons. When it worked, which was most of the time (there were about 4 seasons that could qualify as under par, vs the majority which were not) it did, it juggled episodes of 360° combat, with heartbreaking and uplifting storytelling. And yeah, part of that has to do with the fact that their seasons were released in halves, and were usually 18-24 episodes long, but they were also based on much more material.
Last of us as a game is maybe about an hour and a half longer than all of season 1, including combat. That is not a lot, and I don't disagree that trying to fill with that much combat might have gotten old. My disagreement comes from being so hard and fast about that rule. I hope they know better when it comes to season 2, which is based on part 2, a game which was intentionally written to feel like a descent into madness and hell.
This is a game I always wanted to show my brother, but I know he'd never play it. (He's not that into gaming) So getting to experience it with him through this show is something I really appreciate.
The game still is better, yo. Tell him to check the game out. Even better story.
I don’t understand opting out to watch another hbo drama then to play the video game where your own choices matter and you get to explore on your own. Is he biased against video games?
My dad wants to play through the game with me after watching the last episode with me.
Same. It's the same reason why adaptations exists in the first place. Not everyone is gonna read a book or play a game. This story is good enough to show it to a wider audience. And, unsurprisingly, the new audience loved it
I thought so too but I feel like it missed a lot of the weight, emotion, relationship building, and extremely dark moments that the game had. My parents really liked it but all I could think was how absolutely jaw droppingly good the game was. Im seriously considering booting it up and just playing through it for them to watch to actually see how incredible it really is.
Honestly I appreciate that the game and show have something different to offer for people however they decide is best way they enjoy media. You get something different out of each and I'm so glad that the show is going into the second game with additional seasons.
Somewhat different? Did you enjoy the nonstop LGBT propaganda? Literally every highlighted romantic relationship was gay.
It’s beyond representation. It’s propaganda.
The games had these themes but hinted at them rather than hamfisted rainbow flag in your face.
This is the correct response; the show was never meant to outshine the game. It was only there to enhance the story, which it definitely did.
@@NextToToddliness did it really “enhance the story” by being complete trash though?🤔
@@ReIigionlsForIdiots some guy made a great video on this topic, search “Men Kissing 10 hours” its the top video dude sounds right up your alley
@@ReIigionlsForIdiots hey I caught one, neat
The Last of Us Show makes me have a deeper appreciation for the medium of video games. It is not, as some might say, an inferior, immature medium. It does some things no other medium can.
Only people that don't understand video games think that
Reminds me back of Bioshock how it redefine how games are viewed
Reminds me back of Bioshock how it redefine how games are viewed
Games are the best medium of entertainment and art besides the goat of all art which is MUSIC. real pure humans know this is true.
@@nrg6245L take and somebody that is bad at cinema.
Today I learned that you can stab the surgeon with his own scalpel... god that's violent. The biggest issue I had with the show was the pacing. It really felt way too rushed and the world definitely felt empty. It's true that for a TV show, they couldn't rack up the same body count for actual people and I don't take much issue with that, but it was also incredibly lacking in infected. It really decreased the value that Ellie's immunity would benefit the world (if it was even effective or able to be distributed which I don't believe it would be). It didn't feel important to get Ellie to Salt Lake City because the cure didn't feel vital to survival in the world, just a small benefit. They also really seemed to miss the close bond that Ellie and Joel make throughout gameplay moments, little bits of levity throughout the violence. The only thing I really liked about the show was the performances, but it fell flat with the pacing.
Agreed 100%
they could of if they didn't waste hours and made every episode 30 min and not to a budget of millions per episode, it was just poorly planned budget
ruclips.net/video/dgKVmB80wzs/видео.html - all the shows problems summed up
@@marcusclark1339 The problem is the guy that made that video is highly biased against Neil Druckmann, so nothing that guy ever makes will be enough for the guy making the video. Not saying I disagree but thats not a good video to suggest, its like asking someone with lactose intolerance to list their favorite cheeses - its just not gonna happen
I think we needed about one episode's worth of extra material, spread out over the last three episodes. Even then, you could condense it into three key action sequences: the upside-down shootout (happened in Bill's town, but could be anywhere), mill fight alongside David (builds trust with him before the reveal), and then the tunnels before Salt Lake City where Ellie almost drowns (pays off her inability to swim, primes us to fear for her life, mirrors the scene with Joel's daughter at the beginning as the Fireflies take them captive).
Just a liiiiiiitle bit more action and danger in the world, showing Ellie becoming more competent from what she's learned from Joel, along with some more breathing space to see the growth of their relationship.
I honestly felt HBO executives wanted to take a big risk with this show, but not give them the budget to do more episodes and show more infected, in case it didn't do well, so they won't operate at a loss, which they're going through some turmoil at WB-Discovery. Next season their budget is probably getting increased and the infected will be shown more, hopefully. I didn't have a problem with it, since the show made them out to be bigger threats when they were on-screen
I honestly appreciate your meta comments about how nuance and change of perspective are basically extinct online. Also I hope whatever is stressing you can be overcome soon and you can take a chance to rest. Thanks for the video, regardless.
Yes! I think they took too much of the violence and tension out. The grimness of the world explains why Joel and Tommy felt they had to do terrible things to survive, why FEDRA is so harsh, why the Fireflies are so desperate to make the world better, and why Jackson feels like an oasis in the desert.
Not including the violence makes the stakes of, "We gotta get Ellie to the Fireflies so they can make a cure and hopefully improve this nightmare world!" feel less dire. Having Joel as a strong, violent, killing machine makes his changing feelings towards Ellie that much more heartwarming. You feel like you've earned that moment where he calls her "baby girl". Plus, the plot importance of a place like Pittsburgh, a once major US city being turned into this hellscape full of Hunters as compared to the Boston QZ, shows exactly what Joel was talking about when saying they should avoid people. Then the importance of how terrifying it is when Ellie is alone while Joel is injured, kind of loses its sense of fear and urgency when you haven't been shown a dangerous world with death lurking around every corner. Also, the ending choice that Joel makes is way more selfish in the game world, considering how screwed up that version of the world is, than in the tv world where things don't seem as desperate.
Although I agree with you with all your points, I've always have had a problem with people saying Joel was took a selfish wrong choice, cause at least from the info we get from the Fireflies in the game, they are about to do a very stupid procedure to Ellie (a biologist trying to do surgery that kills the only immune individual in the world) but most importantly, without Ellie's consent, which maybe I'm applying 2023 ethics to 10 years ago, but that gives all the reason to Joel to save Ellie, maybe it was for "selfish reasons" in Joel's mind, however it was the ethically correct and logical decision.
@@davorockola It wasnt his choice to make, it was Ellie’s. Thats why what he did was selfish
It’s true that it is Ellie’s choice but the fireflies never gave anyone any choice in the matter. They kind of forced Joel’s hand in a way. Ultimately the whole thing feels really contrived by ND to get people arguing about whether it was “right” or not
@Casey Hart and that I think fizzled out all the tension the show had at least for me, instead of writing its wrongs and not focus on that point, they double down but with a rushed finale that even surprised me because it was so simple.
The show could have been perfect with more time. As the impact of the game(s) was significantly impacted by the passage of real time. We spent a LOT of time with Joel & Ellie in the game, the back and forth, placing ladders, just moving through the game. We build more of a relationship with the characters in the game to make that final crescendo all the more emotionally meaningful.
And by the time Part 2 of the game came out. The story had been firmly cemented as iconic in the gaming space. And Joel & Ellie as characters were so well known in the gaming community as a whole, we all had an emotional attachment that had brewed with the game for a long, long time. This made the impact of the events in Part 2 astronomically more impactful to players.
The show retells the story extremely well, but the emotional attachment never had time to form, since they cut alot of just downtime with Joel & Ellie in favor of fleshing out side stories and characters. And I suspect since season 2 is already in the making, the feeling will only remain. Don't get me wrong I cried and was emotionally affected watching the TV show aswell, but mostly because I already hold this story so dearly. For new viewers I can't imagine it will ever have the same effect. The show needed maybe 2 more episodes focused in on Joel & Ellie just bonding and it would have gone from amazing to perfection.
I still cant believe they gave Kathleen (by far one of the most miscast and unbelievable "villain" in the entire show) a 2 parter while David got literally 1 episode. What were they even thinking.
"Women can be good villains to"
That's it.
Stronk womyn=better character.
It’s what woke adaptations get you.
Agreed, a fat Karen doesn't really make me think of a strong leader in the apocalypse
Are we forgetting that Kathleen’s story was also the story of how Sam and his brothers story played out? I really liked what they did with all of that but we should’ve seen a better adaptation of the bridge/river escape and the sewers imo
I agree Kathleen probably would’ve had better impact with a different actress but I don’t think she was the main issue
I feel as if the director claiming on Twitter that deaths in video games don’t have any emotional impact or that games themselves aren’t able to do good storytelling is pretty telling of why the show wasn’t as good as it could’ve been. It feels like it’s more focused on being “better” and proving that “game bad/not good like tv show” by padding it out a ton than actually being not just an adaptation but making it the writer’s own, if that makes sense. Still has potential and I hope the next season improves on what it lacks.
Its abit much to claim thats what he said though. He was talking about ellie and joel mowing down dozens and dozens of humans, meaning those deaths had way less emotional impact in the game. He was not talking about big character deats at all.
@@SuperYxskaft Thanks for this added context, hadn't seen the quote myself so having the extra explanation from you is much appreciated. (Sorry that sounds sarcastic, it's mean to be genuine.)
@@Oliver-ob8pc hehe, no worries. Yeah, like I for sure can see how taken out of context that quote is kinda discouraging, but given the context it really means something completely different, and I have to agree with it even. Hard to have them mowe down alot of enemies in a tv-show compared to a game and still have the action sequences mean something.
I loved the show, would have liked abit more action but I for sure understand their reasoning around it.
I can really recommend watching the hbo podcast last of us, run by the creators and hosted by troy baker. Its alot of insight in how they were thinking and reasoning behind decisions. Really cool listening.
As one of my all time favourite game series, this adaptation definitely didn't do the game and it's story dirty. For me personally I don't think it hit on all of the elements and emotional moments that the game brought. But this could be because a game immerses you, where a show just brings you along for the ride. Although it definitely proved to want to tell this tale and show this world to a large audience in a sincere way, and not just for the sake of money or franchise building.
ruclips.net/video/dgKVmB80wzs/видео.html - all the shows problems
@Marcus Clark Sorry, I don't watch close-minded propaganda. LOL Hence why I watched an insightful video by Ryan.
The final conversation between Joel and Ellie was really weak. In the show you had that feelling of "shIt, the game just ended no!! I want to know what happened", but in the show it feels soulless. I don't know how ti explain it but it doesn't have the same impact, it felt flat, like they were just reading the lines, it felt off.
Having only just watched the first 8 mins intro as I'm at work and can't finish all this in one sitting, I have to say your experience with the first game is the exact same as me, only I didn't even hype it up that much until only a few days before release when the reviews started coming out. I remember finishing it in about 17 hours over 2 days and being emotionally changed. I hadn't felt such strong emotions like I did during the giraffe scene with any other piece of entertainment and it fundamentally altered how I emotionally resonated with media. And I knew I wasn't going to have that same experience re-created with the show but I had quite high hopes given the show runners. And yes I did really like it, especially the first 3 episodes. But I felt as though all the emotional beats didn't land nearly as hard. One standout example is the Joel and Ellie confrontation in episode 6. I was more effected by Joel's outpouring of emotion to Tommy right before than I was with what was probably one of the most intense scenes in the entire game, which I felt was a strong moment in the show but in the game had my heart racing and tears flowing. I feel like your going to have much better explanations for why in the rest of the video haha
It's very likely they didn't land as hard because you had already experienced those emotional beats before.
It stands to reason that you were more affected by emotioanl beats that weren't present in the game and therefore were brand-new for you..
@@Carabas72 Oh yes I'm fully aware, especially because the one part of the show that DID emotionally resonate with me was episode 3 which was completely new from the game. However having finished the video now, every point I would try to bring up would just be a worse version of how Ryan describes it, so I'll just say that I completely agree with all the points he makes and that they are what lead me to have the lack of strong emotional attachment that I have. I'm very happy to see so many people seeing the show first and loving it.
The whole point of this series is to get to part 2 of the series, and move on to the next project. It's very apparent to many fans that this is an attempt to make Ellie and Joel as they are in the 2nd game where they aren't remotely like their original selves.
There is a Quote from a movie that I think perfectly incapsulates Joel and why he is the way he is in both the game and show. It also works for Ellie in the Games second part. It's as follows "As the world fell, each of us, in our own way, was broken. It was hard to know who was more crazy… me or everyone else."
Mad Max Fury Road
@@RyanHollinger 👍
I still want to see Ridley Scott’s version of I am Legend unlike a lot of apocalypse horror films it deals with the true fear of isolation and lonlieness
Your take on the use of action and on the infected is spot on for me. I like what they did but I thought that it could be a lot more balanced. And exposition and reference are only 2, very small, aspects of story telling. Overall I agree with this take, but I think it’s clear that Joel saves the world at the end, in a Kantian sense, from the fruit of s poisoned tree, and that’s only if it would have worked.
Great video, I feel very much the same way as someone who loves the games. I really like that the series exists so that I can finally talk to my family and friends who don't play games but I still feel that TLOU will always be best as a video game because the story and the emotional beats pay off better with gameplay in between.
Even though I didn't like the game as much as You did, I wholeheartedly agree with what you said at the beginning. The building of Joel's and Ellie's relationship just didn't feel as it should. Many things felt somewhat rushed and just not earned enough. Overall the show really felt like a supercut of scenes from the game.
I really enjoyed the show, but I think the first game should have been two seasons. I felt the last two episodes were a bit rushed. My wife meanwhile has not played the game, and loved the show. She is asking me what happens next though and I’m not sure I should tell her. 😂
Dont tell her man lol
Holy shit do not tell her
I really don’t see how this could have been spread over two seasons and it not drag.
There’s also no way they’d risk only telling half the story, only for HBO to cancel it.
Another season would have been too much. Maybe an extra 4 or 5 episodes.
Tell her Joel goes golfing.
So glad to see someone else bring up The Walking Dead and how it used violence to both propel the story forward and also as way to grow or more often devolve the characters, particularly the protagonist Rick. Because in season 1, Rick takes a righteous stance against killing people, but as the show progresses and more and more of his family and friends are killed, by both people and the Walkers, Rick's sense of empathy dissolves and he reaches a point where he no longer thinks twice or even cares about killing people to save himself and those he loves (which is essentially where we find Joel after the 20 year time jump). Ellie in the game goes through a very similar journey, as the violence she witnesses Joel commit, which she then learns and does herself, as Ryan put it, breaks down her spirit and makes her colder and more cynical. So then when you reach that giraffe scene and on the roof she says "After everything I've done, it can't be for nothing", you really feel the weight behind what she's saying since you seen her partake in so much brutality. Whereas in the show, with the way it remove so much of the violence and made her engagements with any of the violence extremely passive (she just stands there while Joel is fighting the raider at the university), when she says the same line in the show, the intention and weight of it really falls flat, particularly in comparison.
I definitely do agree however that The Walking Dead also isn't a flawless show either, but it is interesting how both it and HBO's The Last of Us suffer from pacing issues, just at opposite spectrums, with The Last of Us feeling very rushed and not giving many of the character arcs room to breathe and grow naturally, while The Walking Dead suffers from very languid pacing and over indulgence on trying to romanticize and build up many of the secondary characters that don't ultimately affect the story in drastic ways or end up dying a few episodes later anyway.
I do agree about the lack of persistence in the presence of the infected. It seems to be an issue with most if not all apocalyptic films and tv shows; that it becomes more about the human danger than the danger of disease or monsters or nature.
Well honestly, how many zombielike creatures would be around 20 years after an apocalypse? They lack higher intelligence to ensure their survival and can't just magically keep on living. I think 28 days later handled that quite well. The amount of infected in TLOU would be lower if most of mankind got taken out. The remaining surviving humans would become rather adept at taking them out, there's a reason we are dominating earth.
Right, which at one point was an original thesis - that we are the real danger, but it's been done many many times
@@wiseauserious8750 What a story Mark
That’s literally the point of the story..it’s about the ppl
While I feel like this is the point, I also feel it's untrue about one example mentioned in the video: 28 Days Later. It managed to, while telling a human story, never forget about the zombies.
This is very in line with how I felt, the pacing and forced emotion was too much for me. I didn’t hate it and wouldn’t say it’s outright bad but it’s no master stroke unfortunately.
I really liked the show and I would give it a solid 8 but yeah I feel like it was super rushed as well as it talked to much about them feeling close to each other like parent and child but didn’t show it enough. As well as it didn’t show Ellie be taught and learning from Joel all those skills and so I’m curious as how they’re going to make believable that Ellie is so capable of destruction after losing her loved one like Joel did.
The thing I found with films/tv series based on games, no matter how brilliant they are they will never fully live up to the game. We play the characters in games, we have a bond with our characters because we feel what they feel and go through everything with them. In a weird way we form a bond with the character. And no film or tv show no matter how amazing they are can give the audience that same feeling or bond.
I wish that I could have seen the tv show with virgin eyes. I found myself constantly weighing the emotional beats against the game, which was aggravating. Some of the things I loved most about the show were when they spent time on side characters--but then that soured when the last episode was rushed. We got a whole episode of Bill and Frank, the longest episode in the series, actually. And yet... Marlene, undoubtedly one of the most important side characters, gets one short scene in a flashback and then a few lines at the start and finish. That's it. The final episode was far too short. It felt like a sprint to the finish line. Even a couple weeks later, I'm still not sure how I feel about the series. I think I liked it? When the show deviated from the game, it felt good and it felt earned (ep3 and then the Sam/Henry episodes with Kansas City instead of Pittsburgh, for example). When it went hard into matching the game elements, it felt rushed and somehow felt like it was missing something. The show really should have been about 12 episodes. It should have unpacked a lot more with Marlene, Left Behind, and even the surgeon.
Ep 7 should’ve not been on Ellie’s flashback imo. It shouldve been the introduction to the cannibal group so it could be a 2 parter
The show seemed like it was taking its time with the characters and world building in some parts and then rushing though character development in other parts. Especially the final episode felt sooo rushed and how it's story wasn't split into two episodes is beyond me.
as someone who watched a sibling play through the game and loved the story but was bored (or maybe rather frustrated) by the fighting and more strictly “gameplay” aspects, the series is extremely accessible to me. i even got a friend into it. i really feel like the show is just Literally The Game But Also Better Somehow. i know due to time constraints they lost some of the subtle things. i do wish we’d had more “filler” time with Joel and Ellie just doing things in an apocalypse. and i do wish there’d been more on-off infected encounters, but at the same time, they made the zombies so OP (which i don’t dislike) that encountering them every five minutes would have made them seem less scary or dangerous tbh. if the series suffered, it suffered from HBO mini-ism, where each ep has to be a somewhat self-contained neat arc or *maybe* a two-parter, with only major threads or the grand arc stringing them all together. also bot enough eps in general. but these last two points come from studios/corps hedging their bets.
I loved the game but, like you, absolutely hated the combat. Would have much rather had a last of us game more like Heavy Rain than anything
The video game is in so many ways superior to the show. The show was a good adaptation, but they missed the mark with a lot of the more deep, profound cutscenes/character arcs. The combat being ‘frustrating’ doesn’t take away the amazing storytelling and complex topics/characters.
I liked the show, but, I LOVED the game. I think people forget that there are more complex emotions and levels of enjoyment than love or hate alone. The show is nowhere near as good as the game but as a stand-alone piece and different medium altogether, it did ok.
This ^
Totally agree.
My thoughts back then if there were a chance for a live action, the game is great, taking out all actions would make it a good interactive film. Like watching a complication of cutscenes.
It didnt live up to the game, but it's still probably best video game adaptation to date.
I will say, 10 minutes into the video, that the show was the first experience my GF and I had with this story, and we enjoyed it throughout its entirety. The moments of hope, the moments of misery and horror, the emotional highs and lows, the development between Joel and Ellie. It all worked. If anything, we had a great sense of each episode's self-contained themes, and accompanying developments with characters and the world, that established the end of the season. We both knew what was coming with the arrival at Salt Lake City.
Granted, I had the ending spoiled by overeager, excited friends years ago, but I certainly had a better understanding of Joel's motivations for going through such an unreal rampage at the end.
In regards to the disparity in the display of mercy, we felt as though that the Joel's barbaric execution of the teenage ambusher was not only him cutting a loose end, but he was also bring an end to a life that had lost any sense of innocence while trying to protect what innocence Ellie might have still. At the same time, I think that even then Joel was reminded of Sarah and did not want to continually reveal how monstrous the world, or he himself, had become.
On the flipside, the elder sniper reinforced how Joel doesn't want to end up an old man without peace in his life. He gave the sniper a chance because he still wanted that chance someday.
@@SeekerOf7ruth yeah but u didnt play the game. The ending isn't the same at all in terms of actual narrative.
okay
I am loving all the various interpretations of the series! And I loved seeing this dive into the narritive choices and how it impacts the characters. Bravo!
Also... amused that you love Ellie's actress portrayal and not so sure about the changes in Joel, considering the... discourse? that's been floating around since the start. Nice to see somebody have Actual backed up reasons for their opinions.
I throughly enjoyed the show and have played the game, but I thought it lost some of the violence and gritiness of the post-apocalyptic world that was The Last of Us. The raiders in Kansas City (a.k.a Pittsburgh) and their leader were a damp squib and they should have put in more clickers and runners throughout. They should have used 28 Days Later or 28 Weeks Later to inspire the runners (bar Episode 1 there was none of that frantic running after the characters which unnerves me) and should have used the portryal of raiders and bandits from The Road as inspiration for David's clique and Kansas City raiders. As a fan of horror genre, that would have made the raiders and zombies more terrifying for me. The action scenes were very meh for me bar Episode 1 and Joel's rampage through the hospital in Episode 9. They should have fleshed out to 10-12 episodes to allow for some extra Joel/Ellie conversations. That being said, for drama, acting, and fresh ideas thrown in, a solid 7.5/10 for me. Great review as always Ryan.
Fun thing I only very recently learned about cordyceps: It leaves the brain of its host intact, unaffected. It only controls pretty much everything else ("lesser nerves", muscles, etc).
Meaning if there WAS an equivalent for humans, it would mean you'd be fully conscious but helpless as your body does whatever the fungus wants it to do :D
Headcrabs from Half Life, then.
I have to wonder if HBO was too afraid of a video game adaptation failing to give it more episodes or commit to part 1 being multiple seasons. Now that it's a success I'm hoping part 2 is more fleshed out. The lack of infected was a bummer and I really think it made the world feel less dangerous. You can't have this threat that took humanity to it's knees and only briefly show it like 3 times over 9ish hours. Part of what made the Walking Dead (Early seasons and random episodes peppered throughout the later ones) and the George Romero movies (Even the Dawn remake) so good was you knew the zombies were just off screen at any time. While I really enjoyed this adaptation I never felt like the infected were a big threat through most of the show.
Man I feel you on all of this. I was trying to explain this to my wife too, who has not played the game. I feel the show is a decent summary but definitely not the de facto way I’d recommend getting the complete story, despite some of the positive changes.
The second game though…we have very different opinions hah. I know you’re a fan and I don’t begrudge people who liked it, but it felt like a pale and hollow sequel to me.
Your section on ludonarrative dissonance really reminded me of that. The moment to moment gameplay for TLOU2 and the choices both Ellie and Abby make in the gameplay do not at all reflect the story or the ending. The ending was so jarring to me because it didn’t reflect the Ellie that was built up through the game. Couple that with me actively loathing Abby and the sections with her, and it just left me totally disappointed. I know they tried hard to make the player empathize with Abby, but all of the actions felt out of order. The game makes you hate her, then tries to make you understand and like her, and it just didn’t work for me.
A better example of this working in media though would be Peacemaker. Hated him at the end of Suicide Squad 2, but damn the show redeemed him and made you understand and like him.
TLoU2 just didn’t do that for Abby in my eyes. It obviously did for others, which is good. It makes the game beats hit harder. But man everything about that game fell flat for me (minus the visuals and actual gameplay.)
The game covered a multitude of things about survival and relationships in a post-apocalyptic world, in particular Joel and Ellie's survival and relationship. The show covered the main theme Neil Druckman had in mind when he wrote the story for the game - exploring how love can be simultaneously the most beautiful thing in the world... and the most terrifying. They used Joel and Ellie's journey and growing relationship to show that even the most disastrous or murderous actions often come about because of love. So the show was a relationship thriller more than survival horror.
Joel murdered innocent people because he was dead inside after losing Sarah, but he was still determined to keep Tommy alive because the last bit of love he felt was for his brother. As he started caring about Ellie, he didn't want to be that person anymore because he didn't want Ellie to be like that, and it awoke a lot of feelings that he failed Sarah and he was afraid he'd fail Ellie too. He pushed himself beyond human limits to save her from David and his crew, and it brought back some of the dad behaviors that Sarah knew from him. But in the end he loved Ellie too much to lose her like he lost Sarah, so he turned cold enough to save her by mercilessly killing the Fireflies, including Marlene.
Frank's love turned Bill from a man who hated the world and was glad when it ended to a man who learned that at least one person was worth saving and loving and sharing his life with, and that Joel should do that too.
Kathleen's love for her brother twisted her into someone who wanted revenge more than anything, and she had no compassion or understanding for anyone or anything else, even though her brother told her to forgive. While Henry betrayed her brother to save his own, she betrayed herself and everyone who believed in her in Kansas City to a horrific death at the hands of the infected she ignored to pursue her revenge. Meanwhile, Henry betrayed a good man to save Sam from one deadly disease just to lose him to another, resulting in both their deaths.
The people of Jackson have a great place to live that works well for loving couples and families, but they kill enough people and leave the bodies behind to have that old couple frightened of going anywhere near them.
Ellie remembered how her one kiss ended in Riley becoming infected and Ellie having to kill her.
David's group fed his narcissistic need to be loved and admired and trusted by people (and other needs that I won't mention) and, in turn, he gave them someone to love and trust in to take care of them. That twisted mindset had some of them hunting and killing people for food when they had nothing else to eat - and it got David and his hunters slaughtered by Joel and Ellie. God only knows what happened to the rest of them.
And in the end, Joel lied to Ellie because he loved her, and he didn't want to lose her love for him.
The infected were mostly a plot device to put these characters into extreme situations in order to highlight the many aspects of love demonstrated in the show. But realistically, the further West you travel in the US, the less population there is outside major cities. I don't know why they didn't show at least some in Salt Lake City, but maybe we're supposed to believe the Fireflies cleared them out of that part of the city? It was probably more so they could highlight the giraffe encounter and how Joel and Ellie told each other they loved the other one without actually saying the words - something neither one seems good at.
I am so glad you made this video, I felt insane watching along with everyone else raving about how great the show is while I just couldn't connect to it, and at the worst times openly cringed at the forced and unearned emotional moments. I hated how Joel and Tess were like "we're bad guys we're so so bad!" like show us then!!!! Don't just tell! They should have kept them killing Robert in, it was vital to showing how ruthless they could be. And I hated how they made Ellie have violent tendencies right from the start, it really detracted from the emotional impact of her killing to save Joel, or killing David, when she seemed excited by murder from the very first episode. I'm only ten mins into this video so sorry if I'm just repeating points you make later lol. I think Joel was my biggest problem; they were afraid to show him be truly 'bad', too scared the audience wouldn't route for him, so they softened him up from the start which made his relationship with Ellie seem so underdeveloped to me- it feels like they skip to him thinking of her as a daughter way too soon. They spoon-fed the audience so much of the parallels too- like in ep one, the flashback to Sarah when they run into the military guy- that JUST happened! We didn't need a flashback! So on the nose. No hate to those who enjoyed it, but I just couldn't.
Despite your self critique at the beginning, I think you still made a really good argument. Thank you for enlightening me to critical aspects of the show I hadn't really thought about. As someone who watched the show before then playing the game, I adored almost every episode and even the weaker ones for me were still extremely strong, but I agree it definitely would have been nice to see more world building. In relation to hope and humanity, personally I enjoyed the show taking a slightly less cynical path to the game because for me it allowed me to leave each episode wanting to come back and see more. Yes, I love watching and reading nihilistic doom and gloom like 28 days later, Threads etc. for the pure spectacle of horrific yet beautiful story telling, but too much extended nihilism just kills my passion for a story, especially in video format. It's why I refused to continue watching the Walking Dead after starting season 6, I just left each episode feeling sick. TLOU the show does a perfect balancing act for me of expressing the worst humanity has to offer whilst also providing just enough light to keep me hopeful of eventual catharsis and release, and thats why I loved it so much.
for me, this series did not explore the horror and action aspect as much as it should have been, from the game. The threat factor in the series was very limited, and at times unnecessary focus on characters which did not matter. Though well acted and shot, the camaraderie between the lead during the exploration and fight moments in the game was also missing much from the series. If they do not learn from the mistakes of this season and the second game, the next season will not be promising.
I'm interested that people don't seem to be talking much about how closely Kathleen worked as a mirror for Joel with the way she's characterised in the show, given that by the end of the show [spoilers I guess] Joel is doing exactly what she did, minus the resources that she had. Somebody needs a cure, so someone Kathleen loves is killed, so Kathleen hunts down everyone involved without mercy. It's almost too on-the-nose, but still makes her interesting in my view.
Actually, Kathleen mirrors Part 2 far more. Henry mirrors Joel’s position, but everyone knows that.
It was too hard to take Kathleen serious. It’s laughable we are expected to take some middle aged, mono toned, obese woman serious.
Season 1 should have been the one with the many monsters and action since it was a race to get from point A to B with challenges in-between
Season 2 should be the one with less monsters since the entire story is about revenge and the consequences of your choices
You're right. You also have to ground people in the world, without danger the adventure poses very little threat and it makes Joels presence, Ellie's cure and the stakes and choices being made at the end all meaningless. Who cares about a cure if there isn't much danger and why does Ellie even need protection. It's tell, don't show and that IMO is bad writing. There doesn't also need to even be action scenes, I don't think anyone cares about action in The Last of US.
I feel they kinda blew the load with that since we see the “revenge and it’s consequences story” about 2-3 times in this season. Most notably the Salt Lake City group and David’s group.
@@DJRxx24 they were in danger in episodes 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9. Most people would have died in many of these episodes. Gameplay is not the same as real life.
*Spoilers!*
Forgiving Abby felt forced (for me), after murdering countless even a pregnant woman.
@@rowaystarco Nice way of missing the point entirely.
This was a fascinating watch, mostly because our experiences were so fundamentally different. I think there was only one episode that didn't bring me to tears. 😅 imo Pedro's Joel starts off cynically pragmatic in his violence, an executioner out of necessity. Ellie's tough-girl bravado from the start read to me as a parallel to Joel- he is the kind of person she wants to be seen as: intimidating & deadly. I think it disturbs him to see that in a child, especially as he grows to care about her. Ellie not only gives him something to fight for, but a mirror for self-reflection. It starts to melt some of the walls he's built around himself that were foundational to that ruthlessness. As he sees the potential for healing, he starts to envision the man he could become- living a quiet life, re-embracing his long-lost passion for music, etc. His overall brutality gradually lessens except in moments where he's facing the threat of losing Ellie (like the torture of David's men). The hyper-violent massacre at the end was a tragic end cap to that character arc- a grim acceptance that this is his true nature, there is no point in fighting it- not when it could save Ellie and keep him from reliving the loss of his daughter. From his perspective, he's sacrificing that peaceful, better man that he could have been for Ellie's sake. It's only in the aftermath that he has doubts, constructing the lie to protect the bond he's built with her.
That rant aside, I do wish they'd had a few more episodes to improve the pacing and allow more time for Ellie & Joel to bond.
I really think that, with the exception of episode 3, every change to the story didn’t work in the story’s favor? Ellie and Riley playing Mortal Kombat instead of using their imagination, or whoever the villain of the Sam and Henry arc was (I really couldn’t care less about that storyline)
There were moments where I was watching the show re-enacting scenes directly from the game and I couldn’t feel anything. It didn’t feel earned, Ellie with the magazine fucking with Joel didn’t feel earned.
As a piece of media enters the cultural zeitgeist people are excited to be part of something; it's wonderful to have shared experiences. I think you're correct in stating that our opinion's change given time hoyever. I will say, It is unfair to view someone that gives thoughtful analysis as pretentious. Many people don't think critically about the media they consume and take constructive criticism of their favourite media, as a slight against themselves. I'm absolutely sure that I'm guilty of doing so myself. Having said all that, storytelling is one of humanity's greatest gifts and I appreciate that you are able to expound so thoroughly on the scary stories we share. Another awesome and insightful video! Hail yourself, Ryan.
"In this effort to make it seem more deep, they make an already deep story seem shallow" sums up exactly how I feel about the show.
I'm in the same boat that I really like it, like I really really like it, but it's so unfortunate that we have the game to compare it to since the game is constructed so painfully well.
I think the game format just works so well for this kind of story because it gets to be more drawn out, and people can take their time and discover moments on their own and feel the pressure and fear and exhaustion of survival because they are literally in control and the characters could die if they make a mistake (granted, the death isn't permanent, but you have to make an effort to keep it from happening). You can't have that same affect in a TV show, so the best you can do is try to communicate stakes in other ways, which I don't know if the show always ended up mastering. It definitely had a rushed feeling to it, even if I liked all of the episodes I watched individually it didn't all feel like it "flowed" in a natural way. And even though I found myself taken with the emotions within a scene, when I finished each episode, some of them really didn't stick with me. Unfortunately the finale was one of the more anticlimactic episodes for me and left me just feeling a bit weird, or unsatisfied or something. Like, I can't say I hated the show or even disliked it, but I also can't say that I loved it. It had some great moments, and it'll be interesting to see how they do part 2, but I'm weirdly un-invested.
As a game fan, Ryan fan, and generally enjoyed the show, excited to see what your thoughts about the show were! There were definitely things I wished they didn’t change, but I kinda understand why some changes were made!
Why did you “enjoy the show” what was good about it?
@@raymondsims7042 I personally think it had good acting, the cast did a good job and the set pieces were great. There are some pacing issues, and certain things I wish were done closer to the game, but I appreciate the work they’ve done in the adaptation and expansions on the lore and mythos of the world
great acting, great writing, great visuals.
@@rowaystarco STOP IT😂😂😂
@@laolun8658 ok fair enough lad I don’t agree, but I won’t rain on your parade 🙏
I agree with most of these criticisms. If anything, it makes me appreciate the game's achievement in using ludonarrative dissonance in an interesting way.
Building up Joel as a typical game protagonist killing machine creates the expectation that we'll have the same dissonance we normally get, where the actions of the character when we play them are those of a bloodthirsty sociopath, but the character in the cutscenes is completely different. The ending of TLOU trups us up by saying, "Nope! He is exactly what you saw when he killed those dozens of people, and how else could that person possibly respond to this situation?"
I would love to address each of your points individually, but that would just be an entire essay in itself XD I'm sad you had such a negative response to the show -- but I would like to ask, have you actually replayed the game any time recently? I wonder if there is some rose-tinted glasses going on here.
I loved the show (having played the game years ago and loved it as well). And now I am replaying the game, and I'm surprised by A) how much of the show was not directly from the game (because it sure felt like it to me), and B) how much their changes really do help the adaptation as a show WORK.
For example, to your point about the world being more bleak in the game -- I honestly don't feel much difference between the game and show. The game has a TON of downtime, and honestly I find the game's encounters with humans to be far more fraught and meaningful than the infected encounters. And to your point about the spores -- it's only when your characters put on the gas masks that you really feel any danger -- aside from when you're around humans -- so I really don't feel like the show is all that different (like, being around humans in the show feels way more dangerous than times just spent wandering around, same as the game).
Because they covered the entire arc in 1 season of TV, I think they did an amazing job changing certain beats to emphasize the theme which is -- "How far would you go for those you care about?" Changing Joel to be more of the cynic who is suppressing his emotions and Bill to be the more hopeful one perfectly aligns with that theme, otherwise Joel's actions at the end really aren't going to make much sense or be as impactful (given the runtime and the differences in adaptation, ie, the fact that you aren't the one playing Joel).
Anyways, this already got way too long, but I am just really surprised you have such a negative take when I honestly just see the show as nailing it -- the same tone and themes are there, just adapted so that they play better on screen and in a non-interactive medium.
Love your content though. I hope you give it another chance sometime.
I will say as someone who played the game, DLC, and sequel for the first time about two months before the show came out, I will say I was unable to watch the show past the fourth episode because of a lot of the changes done and it just pissed me off more than had any enjoyment for me. Perhaps when the the game and how it made me feel isn't so recent in my mind, I could finish the show, but even recently, I tried to get through episode four and was just unable to, so maybe that day will not come.
That's not to say the show is bad itself. Yes, there are genuine problematic things in it that should be talked about in the portrayal of secondary female characters in comparison to the strong and multilayered writing of them in the game but because neither you nor him discuss it, I wouldn't talk about it here.
I think it is but that's more of my own opinion and the recent impact the game had on me and I just don't think this game was able to be adapted and it still keep the same emotions and feelings the game does. Giving the show more episodes likely wouldn't have helped the issues the show had.
The problem of translating a game to a show is that the amount of breathing room a game gets is unmatched, and you're able to pace yourself at whatever rate you like for the most part, and characterization also happens at your own pace so it's much easier to get attached to the characters in that medium imo. A better example of this would be in JRPGs where you might not have a story related bond with a character, but instead you develop one based on "gameplay personality" which you probably projected onto them.
I think the time and quality put into the show was admirable and I would never say it ruined the source material, but it being so tight paced and knit together so strong that we don't get the emotional tender beats that make this story run in the first place is a genuine flaw. The TV show can't just expect us to accept the relationship without more foundation, and it wasn't for a lack of trying, they just needed more space. It's maybe one of the reasons I don't like the episode with Riley just a bit, cause yes it contexualizes Ellie, but if you didn't have that, you could have maybe made Joel and Ellie's relationship more real with an episode more of real estate.
Overall I adored the show episode to episode, only really disappointed with the rushed finale, and even then it wasn't bad.
I thought episode 3 was a wonderful piece of storytelling, a great, wistful love story, I just wish it hadn't taken up an episode of a show that already feels like it lacks so much, both in the way of action scenes and characterization of our main character. It's true, as Ryan says, that episode 3 does pay off for the main characters in teaching Joel to live for something (though we have a couple of other scenes with Ellie with, I'd argue, pretty much the same payoff) but in a show that rushes so many other emotional payoffs, it felt like a weird prioritization to dedicate an entire episode to these two guys who only show up in this one episode.
The balance between the main characters and side characters in many cases just feels a bit off. Either we learn too much of side characters or not enough, and I tended to feel frustrated because I wanted to go back to Joel and Ellie most of the time.
I love the call back to your video game days since I found the channel through your far cry video essay!
the problem is that pedro pascal is too sexy imo
Interestingly enough I didnt think David coming after them as revenge, in part because it was only one death. Revenge aka "justice" is a nice excuse, but David wants Ellie and a horse and an extra body to feed his people. the second game never really crossed my mind.
I didnt much think about the lack of "survival" but I guess youre right. I think it crossed my mind somewhere during episode 3 or 4 and I shrugged thinking it would probably be very difficult to make game mechanics interesting to watch, as in infinite looting and crafting, or infinite fighting with people or infected and racking up an insane body count and kinda left it there. Im still not too sure how to make that exhaustion to come through in a series, but I agree it was definitely missing.
I also agree on making Ellie somewhat softer, which might prove interesting to what story they are planning on telling in season 2. I personally didnt like a lot about how tlou 2 was handled so im hoping for a massive rewrite :D
Your mention of the “Netflix effect” is correct… kids/teens/early 20s people nowadays are so oversaturated with instant gratification that anything requiring more than 10 seconds thought or critical thinking, is considered boring. Hellish things like TikTok are one of the major things to blame.
Had me until right at the end when you say it's all about him. It wasn't about him at all and that viewpoint makes my skin crawl, it's so jaded and cynical. The proof of this is in one of the final scenes in the TLoU part 2 where he tells Ellie that if he could do it all over again knowing that Ellie would find out and essentially banish him from her life, he would make the same choice. It was never about Joel not wanting to live without Ellie (he did that even though he saved her), it was Joel wanting Ellie to experience all that life has to offer, even in a post-apocalyptic world and even though it wasn't the choice she would have made. You don't have to agree with the choice but it wasn't selfish, it was love in it's purest form warts and all.
Controversial take? Druckmann clearly needed that "second creative voice" to create amazing things, and since losing it things for Naughty Dog getting worse and worse, as he constantly overestimate his talent and currently is more focused on creating himself as a brand that actual storytelling. It if ofc my opinion only for now, but I can totally see him dragging ND down as this continiues...
In summary the video essay explains that the television adaptation was only nine short episodes long. It squandered the little time it had on some poor narrative decisions rather then bolstering the relationship of the two main characters that people fell in love with in the game. Making the adapted content from the game ring shallow and undeserved when it came to the growth of Ellie and the changes in Joel. Which I agree, less is more when it comes to those side characters when you have limited episodes to work with. The infected was also treated in the same manner.
As someone keenly pointed out: The show is not an adaptation of the first game, it's a prequel to the second.
I agree with you 100%. They missed the main point- building the relationship between Joel and Ellie. I also wish we saw more infected and especially clickers. It would have been nice to show them focus on the stealth aspect more.. I was so bummed about Pittsburg. I agree with you that the 1st season just felt rushed. Surprisingly, I liked the Bill episode. It was a huge change but well done. All of the episodes should have been at least as long as that one. Especially the last episode- 45 minutes- really?
My only real problem with the show is as you explained, the diluted tone. The story is more-or-less exactly the same, with a few mostly insignificant changes- almost all of which are additive, not reductive. The one that is reductive though- in most ways, is the policy with the show- according to both lead writers and executive producers, to cut down on the violence. The premise of that policy is sound: this is a TV show, not a videogame, so the fear was that if they gave the show as much of a focus on fighting people, or zombies then it would get grating over time. The issue I have is that they've done it to the point that two episodes which were based on memorable chapters in the game that had a focus on brutal combat, had the actual fighting reduced almost to nothing, or a short montage in the show. The result is that the episodes are less tense. There's never really a moment in the season finale, which sees Joel cutting down a group of men (avoiding spoilers) who want to kill Ellie, where you feel like he might fail.
Instead, there's the scene in the stairwell, he gets the upper hand, and then it turns into a "when the doom music kicks in" supercut.
My hope is that they see people making this criticism, and acknowledge the theme of rage from the 2nd game as an opportunity to cut loose as far as the violence goes, because the entire point of that story is that she lets things get out of hand until the very end.
Of course, none of that is to say that I didn't thoroughly enjoy the show. As I said, this is my **only** criticism of it, really. I also would've liked to have seen more of Bill being a cantankerous old fuck, but I also wouldn't want to do anything with that episode, which absolutely broke my heart with how good it was.
I never really respected Last of Us as a game. The tone was full of misery and didn't portray anything we hadn't seen before, so I always chalked up the hype to it being a super polished experience that was so self-serious it would read as mature in a time when gamers were super self-conscious about being recognized as a legitimate art form. (And Last of Us was the last thing I wanted to represent games as art, since its AAA oil-and-water gameplay and storytelling never meshed into the sort of sublime ludonarrative experience the medium is capable of, IMO.) The show only further emphasized to me that the game was a glorified cutscene delivery device, since I didn't miss *any* of the combat encounters. Sure, the episode count could have been bigger and characters could have been better written, but I ultimately enjoyed the adaptation far more than the original and think it demonstrates a shame of the game industry that many of our most celebrated directors would rather ape Hollywood style than play to the strengths of the medium.
P.S. Despite my appreciation for the TV series, it's still only the 2nd best video game adaptation after the Animal Crossing movie.
The show is fantastic but it's funny to me that HBO is spending tens of millions on what is a live action cut scene compilation. It's like the most expensive fanfic ever.
No, The Rings of Power is the most expensive fan fiction. 😜 I liked The Last of Us tv-show and I am not a fan of zombie movies. I have never played the game, but as movies based on computer games go, this one seems to be way better than other attempts. I mean, it is enjoyable, feels more than a quick cash grab and fans of the game don't seem to despise the show.
@@user-qj9en1kp1m Good point on The Rings of Power. I actually like TLOU quite a bit. That's even considering Ryan's spot on critiques. The acting is superb and I'm a sucker for post apocalyptic anything really.
the truth is that I've only seen the show, and I loved it, but just seeing some of the gameplay, I'm sure that the lack of infected is the missing ingredient, the action scenes that they would introduce, Joel and Eli's interactions in the middle of an attack, to see the magnitude of the threat in action and not mostly its traces and most importantly, the weight of Joel's decision.
In the series the world has fallen, but the society is rising again, the threat of the virus is minimal compared to the game (including that it spreads through the air). Watching the series, it seemed to me that Eli's sacrifice would be more than anything a strategic advantage for the fireflies, being the only ones with a cure. In the games it seems that she is seriously humanity's last hope.
I'm glad to hear a reviewers opinon simlear thoughts to my own. Cheers. Great video
I know a lot of people drag the show for having little action, and how much "filler" the show had with Ep 3 & 7. But to me those kinds of episodes were my favorites from the season cause they were so good in getting to let me know and see who or how the characters are in their present day.
I wish we could've had a 13 episode season and we could've had maybe 3 or so episodes like this where we get to just experience the characters living and evolving together.
I love the game and have played it so many times since first release (haven't played the second, not sure I can bring myself to!) and enjoyed the series a lot. But it absolutely had flaws and my biggest nitpick is the lack of infected - I really love the idea of the world and monsters in TLoU and I wish we'd gotten to see more of the creatures ! That being said only 9 episodes just wasn't enough to solidify what they wanted to do. I am happy it exists and thankful it was made with so much love and care. I'm glad to see more discussions around it as the game and series deserves it!
Oh! And it's nice to bring in family and friends in my life who aren't into games (and heck, think they're all for children and a waste of time) and show them something in another format they can appreciate. It really shocked my parents to find that it was pretty close to the game and then started asking me about it. Now my dad is happily playing TLoU1!
I’ve always held the same sentiment as you Ryan! “Action is storytelling” seeing characters react to the traumatic surroundings, characters dying, fighting for the lives of others, can bring out serious emotion and heighten the fear and intensity of a story.
House of the dragon could learn from this. It is exceptional, beautiful, well acted, but there’s far too much talking about doing stuff than actually doing stuff.
GoT did follow a similar theme but they at least sprinkled in action sequences and battles that made us engage and worry for our favourite characters.
I think the lack of infected fights/encounters worked better for the medium. It made it feel a lot more powerful when we finally saw how brutal Joel could be to protect Ellie in the final few episodes. We would have been pretty desensitized to it if he'd been killing stuff every episode.
They didn't need to have Joel fight the infected.
They could have been an obstacle Joel and Ellie needd to avoid (considering the new infected hivemind in the show)
@@sev1120 True. And at times, they were used as an obstacle, though they appear at nothing close to the rate they do in the game. I personally found it more effective to show them sparingly (stealth missions and zombie fights are fun in video games but start to feel repetitive, slow paced and/or jump-scary on TV), but your mileage may vary on that.
I wish i had seen the show with no memory of the game, because every time they had a scene or line that was identical it just pulled me out entirely and made me want to play the game again.
As a fellow lover of the game you nailed your criticisms of the series. I would love to hear your opinion on part 2. I think it was plagued with pacing issues and incoherent character writing imo.
Don't let the fanbase hear you give a single criticism
My biggest takeaway was the sense of haste the show seemed to move with, regulating not only story beats to quick run times but a number of moments featuring beautiful cinematography to mere seconds. One only has to look at the durations of the episodes to see this, including the last episode which is half as long as the pilot.
My ultimate issue with the show, was that there was so much goddamn waste. The biggest example I can think of, is the black woman who we're shown in a flashback, getting into a military truck, and then a skeleton is shown in front of the characters. There was no need for the flashback scene, it took us away from our PoV. It didn't even add any information. The skeleton by itself lent up against a wall with holes in the wall, that the characters walk past would've been less clunky.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt the series fell flat. Things felt overly explained (followed by commentary by the creators which overexplained what was already overexplained) and still underdeveloped. This as a 13 episode series could have been really incredible. I found myself craving things like the dam adventures with Tommy as a means for Tommy and Joel's relationship to be developed. In the show they just have a series of stagnant conversations where they explain all their feelings. It doesn't put the work in, but relies on the existing love for the game and the love for the actors to do the heavy lifting.
My main issue with Joel that Ryan didn't actually cover was the addition of him having panic attacks only for that to never be brought up again. It's the perfect encapsulation of the way the show takes something subtle and complex (man with PTSD from losing his daughter in front of him) and makes it more literal (man with PTSD from losing daughter in front of him has panic attack right before our eyes because he's so stressed about losing new daughter figure). It was just to on-the-nose for me. And Joel crying to Tommy? Didn't even feel like the same guy as the games.
Anyway, great commentary thanks for being a voice of criticism from a place of love.
i thought it was gonna be 22 episodes since it was a proper tv show not streaming, but when i found out it was gonna be 9, i knew it wasnt gonna be flushed out and made sense why they ended some side plots so quickly
Literally everybody: Loves the show
Ryan: HYËVUR
The game does the emotional weight better
FINALLY a more honest review less based on recent emotion
I mean, pretty good show compared to what they could have made if it was made by Netflix
No stop giving trash a pass. It was still bad and you know it
@@raymondsims7042 Nah, Netflix catalog is bad, this show was good.
Why?! Why does everyone complain about the clickers? The clickers as pointed in this video and the TV show is that they are limited to certain areas, especially because of the way they are as "creatures". The infected are in almost all 9 episodes and even when they aren't they are mentioned. The worst part is they were able to represent every form of infected in the TV show and in different ways than the game. Honestly in a more terrifying way with the Mycellium network.
In a video game, death is more pervasive due to the fact that you CAN die and the anxiety of it happening AGAIN is constant. In a TV show, this is not possible with Ellie and Joel. If you could easily beat every level of the The Last of Us, if you could dispatch Clickers with just a bat or plank of would, nobody would've been scared.
The show can not kill Joel or Ellie if it did the fanbase would be in an uproar about how the show deviated so far from the series. So they use the danger and death of other characters to try and recreate the feeling. Same reason someone who has played the game may not be as attached to this Elli and Joel as the game version because you actually get to play as them.
You as the gamer have to literally walk in their shoes. You have to carry Ellie. You have to save Joel. You have to save Ellie again before she's eaten by either humans or clickers. You are disconnected on a TV screen. Also the sheer amount of people you encounter in the game is actually completely unrealistic based on how empty the world is supposed to be. So the absence is more accurate. Despite those bits the show definitely has its issues.
Couldnt agree more. Show wasted time on what is not important, iinstead of exploring what is really important - Joel and Ellie relationships. So many best moments cut out. it is a good show but it can never compare. To people who never playd the games - do it. it is, INFINITELY, better.
As a non game player for TLoU I can at least appreciate your critique and knowledge about some of the BTS for context without it coming off cynical and acknowledging up front your opinion is formed with the knowledge it may change
Great insights as usual from this channel. Made me reflect about the moral decisions on this story even deeper than I already have. I may even give the series (so far) a chance.
On a side note, many years ago I watched the documentary "The world without us", now that I know there's a book I have to read it.
I can't WAIT to play The Last of Us on PC in 3 days. After watching the show (and yes, playing the game here or there over the years on PSNow on PC) I'm super pumped to really get into the game considering how good the show was. Bella Ramsey was perfect as Ellie imo, I get it some people can't get over the fact Bella doesn't look like Ellie in the game, but that's such a trivial thing to complain about. The whole point of acting is you know, acting. And Bella nailed Ellie if you ask me. Pedro Pascal made his Joel, his Joel. And considering what the 2nd game does and where it goes, I think it works well. Not to mention as a Trek fan, I've had to deal with the horrid section of the fandom that just can't get over "NuTrek" etc so having to deal with people who can't deal with the show being different than the game in some ways. And the whole Bill and Frank thing, oh boy. Why people can't just see things for what they are instead of what they "think" things should be, is beyond me.
It's too short with not enough action and infected. That is basically my biggest problem with it.
They were too busy filming bearded men kissing and singing to Linda Ronstadt.
This right here, I agree
Playing the game for the first time in 2023, I wish I could go back in time to play it when it came out. The games of 2013 all felt so special, and The Last of Us felt like such a huge deal, Video Game Oscar Bait in the best possible way.
The problem couldn't be Pedro Pascal. He has a charming personality on par with Ryan Hollinger.
Hey Ryan’s Mom!!! Happy freaking birthday!! Hope there’s many many more to come! You raised one hell of a son!
I love your review, Ryan. I generally liked this show, especially the way they fleshed out doomed characters such as Sarah, Frank, Bill, Sam, Henry and Riley. Although it wasn't perfect, it was a solid show, and I'm excited for Season 2.
I don't think Riley is more fleshed out. Also, it feels like they replaced Bill with someone else instead of fleshing out the one we already knew.
They didn’t flesh out Bill they replaced him. I was excited that we would be getting more about Bill because he’s a cool character and I loved him in the game. I thought maybe we would get some backstory about him and Frank considering the note you find in the game implies that Frank hates Bill. But instead they stereotyped them and made them quite boring.
Ryan if you enjoyed The Last of Us, have you considered playing LISA The Painful? It's very similar in themes and story(stoic man with dark past wants to keep a girl he sees as his daughter safe) but has a layer of comedy and lively characters so the story is not sad all the time, I consider it one of the best indie games around and I think you'll enjoy it too. Would love hearing your thoughts on it
Race mixed 90% of the cast, only had infected in less than half the eps, made Ellie a bitch instead of a sassy teen, 2 filler eps in an already short season that’s only purpose was a gay love story, add in unnecessary politics. The show was hardly passable, yet gets a
Ton of praise.
Imagine thinking the bill and frank episode served as filler 🤡
@@cinemacrow2521 it didn’t move the plot forward at all. Therefor, filler. Propaganda really.
@jamesgatz5301 if you didn't focus so much on the surface level of tv/movies you'd enjoy them more 🤡
@@cinemacrow2521 if you stopped using the clown emoji people would take you more seriously.
I agree with everything you said - I think the show really missed the Chernobyl director. It needed that extra layer and it fell short because of it