The toughest raid boss of Vanilla: Frame rate and Internet connections. I played on such a potato that I had to point my camera at my feet while tanking.
Yeah, WoW may run smooth now on its outdated architecture but back in 2005, it was arguably the most poorly optimized game for PC for at least a decade.
Clearing Serpentshrine Cavern, Hyjal, Tempest Keep, and Illidan while rocking 4 FPS was a nerve wracking yet magical experience. I even managed to outdamage most of my fellow Warlocks even when I did a crazy Felguard build based off a TK drop! Edit: meant to say Serpentshrine Cavern and not Coilfang Reservoir
@@professionalhater3929 This video is ~30 minutes long and you posted your original comment 20 minutes ago - just a minute after this video was posted
Honestly, meta fight design like that limiting certain skills is very cool. Imagine a fight where the boss randomly rotates targets and taunts are limited. You need to throw out your original strat and get creative, kite, CC, Slow, bring more tanks 😵💫
Counting down the top 10 hardest bosses in Vanilla World of Warcraft! ✅Become a channel member for perks, such as early access to most of my videos(and ad-free): ruclips.net/channel/UCOvz3kkYZtCTeXKdiuMG8egjoin ✅Follow next video progress on Twitter: twitter.com/madseason_ ✅Watch me stream at twitch.tv/madseasonshow
@@madseasonshow Your videos like these and the Pandora's series are wonderful and have been the primary inspiration for me to make my own channel, focusing on MMO/gaming oddities, history, etc. (starting my first script in a few weeks) -- so thank you for what you do!
In general, I don't think it can be stressed enough the difficulty of simply coordinating 40 people, each with their own specific tasks and abilities in a relatively tight room, during a time when WoW was the antithesis of optimized for the average PC and when dial-up was still widely used and at best, broadband was around 15Kbps, to say nothing of having 40 people on Ventrillo at the same time. Some raid encounters were downright slideshows of a framerate. It's amazing we managed to successfully clear some of these raids, tbh. It also sucked that a lot of guilds that were even working AQ40 and Naxx had a very small window before The Burning Crusade dropped and did away with 40-mans altogether.
@@mynameisben123 fancy pants rich mcgee over here.. I lived in the country; we legit didn't get anything faster than 28.8kbps until ~2008 when they released cellular based internet and I paid like $150/month for 512kbps with my job at whataburger rofl I agree w/ you though.. not the norm.
Weirdest glitch that I remember was getting dc'd after accidentally clipping through the undercity elevator; when I relogged, I was in the lake in Stonetalon Mountains, with the Undercity Guardians floating next to me.
Another video idea: vanilla zone transitions. I remember back then one of the most immersive things about WoW was that I could walk whole continents with no loading screens, and they did some unique things with transitions between zones. Some only had one or two set paths in and out, like Dun Morogh to Loch Modan, but I remember vividly that I could cross from Elywnn to Duskwood at any point over that river, those two areas were fully connected, not just a single tunnel or road,
There were some iconic transitions. The Dwarf tunnel into the Searing Gorge, crossing the river into Darkshire like you mentioned, Un'Goro Crater was incredible. (Such a great vanilla zone). Anything in the Arathi Highlands.
Btw, you know there was loading, only cleverly hidden, right? I honestly never understood this obsession of "no loading screens" :) But that's just me, it never bothered me.
@@PetrSojnek No loading screens is an immersion element. The ability to seamlessly transition between zones emulates real life that keeps the player engaged with the zone and the environment. The loading screen is a stark reminder that the player is in a game.
@@PetrSojnek It's a big deal.. among with open world. I remember playing Star Wars the Old Republic MMO and all those loading screens and very small areas in the planets were somewhat limiting immersion.. though I understand that the technology back then wasn't up for a whole galaxy wide open world :) But yeah I wanted some more roaming space there I guess.
Yeah, we tried him a few times but the clock was ticking and we didn't have much time before TBC dropped so we gave up on him. We did managed to kill Ouro though.
He was so insanely much harder as alliance than Horde. If you weren't a guild full of engineers, you couldn't one-phase him, and the poison mechanic kept draining the mana of every healer. Most non-hardcore guilds tended to clear him with the LBRS poison sacs.
I never played vanilla in its day, I only started with TBC. I was maybe 12-13 when I started with my friends, and we had no idea what we were doing. Me and my best buddy made night elf hunters (duh) and probably spent a month in Teldrassil. At one point along the harrowing journey to level 10, one of us made a dwarf, and found out that you could get guns!! Game changer. But we learned quickly that you needed to travel to Ironforge to train guns. I don’t know how we managed to figure out how to get there, but we had a quest of our own now… obtain guns. So we leveled up to maybe 11-12, found the boat to Menethil harbor, and began the infamous run through the Wetlands. After hours of sprinting past angry crocolisks, we finally made it Ironforge, trained the guns skill with the meager silver we had, and finally equipped our blunderbusses. We took the tram to Stormwind, and proudly drew our new weapons to inspire wonder in the other players. “How did these Nightelves manage to get guns? They must be total badasses” or some variation must have going through everyone’s minds. I miss those days so dearly, when everything was new and exciting. When I had no idea there were optimal talents and gear. I never made it to the max level while we played. Wrath came out when I was in the 50s and we were laser focused on 55 for the Deathknight. We plowed through to 68 as fast as possible (very trivial even for us with how insane the DK was then) and then bounced on and off with the game only getting to 79. I leveled to 85 in Cata but never did a single end game dungeon, and when I came back to give things a look in WoD everything was so different with microtransactions I didn’t want to play anymore. I had an absolute blast with Classic, but unfortunately it came at a very bad time in my life and I didn’t get to experience the ladder with everyone. I would love to be able to go back in time and play as a kid once again, but such is the way of life. Your videos bring me back to those days even though I never even got to do any of these things, I doubt I even know raids existed at the time.
Being a long time player, basically when the game came out, I marvel at how much Madseason remembers and how much footage he has of the early days. Well done sir.
Haven't played WoW since classic became retail again, but like the obsessive addict I am I click on this video within seconds and watch every minute of it. Your soothing voice keeps me coming back, time and time again
Same.. I started in TBC and now regret I didn't clone my main and missed the opporturnity when they removed it.. I quit TBC before I managed to get 70.. didn't want the hamsterwheel again.
I started playing WoW too late to see vanilla raids in all their glory. I used to love hearing the stories from the seasoned raiders who used to tackle these bosses.
Great video and the nostalgia is real!! Man, almost 20 years…coming from EQ we were just happy to not have brutal XP death penalties, corpse retrieval, or raid bosses on week long respawn timers in the open world. All things considered, for a small guild, I think we did ok at the time and had fun with it. Good times.
One thing that never gets mentioned in these videos is the ultimate boss - servers. When we played back in 2005 on the opening of BWL, guilds had to communicate via icq or ventrillo to let each other know when they were pulling, because if two guilds pulled Nefarian at the same time, the servers would crash and everyone would fucking die.
@@carsoncoley1 I never said we were. You had to coordinate pulls on Razorgore for the same reason. AQ wasn’t that bad because a lot of guilds were still struggling through long BWLs, but Anub in Naxx was a fucking slideshow.
My guild wiped night one for 3 hours on razorgore. We were stuck on this boss for 2 weeks only to be stuck again for 2 more weeks on the next boss, vael, idk how we didn't implode.
@@Reac2 Well you learned a lot of gameplay and working together while clearing BWL up to Nefarian.. so it wasn't that hard anymore :) Also the gear updates were pretty good compared to MC gear.
In the days pre-BC. I used to make a killing blacksmithing dark iron gear for MC raids. I worked on my thorium brotherhood rep for months and months, I was a rogue so it was easy to get to the grim guzzler to the quartermaster for all the plans and to the black anvil to craft all the dark iron gear people needed for Fire resistance, I even made a sulfuron hammer for a guy who had an "eye of sulfuras" drop for him. Those days crafting felt important. That's when molten core felt like the peak in raid difficulty. But was at the same time, so incredibly rewarding.
While I wouldn't say he's as mechanically complex as the bosses on this list, Vael was tough to execute, back in the day. I distinctly recall spending many more hours/weeks on getting Vael down than Razorgore. In fact, the first boss I had ever heard referred to as a raid, or guild, killer was Vael. The precise tank swaps and threat control required by the raid made it quite difficult, not to mention the time limit and people just blowing up all over the place.
Same.. we had some troubles with Razorgore until we figured out a guy who knew how to do the mindcontrol part great and hunters (me included) did a huge job at kiting the dragonkins. After that we faced another block and much bigger one. Vael. That was a fight where your whole raid had to put some decent dps numbers. I have a video of our guilds first kill of Vael back in the days in my channel ;) I think one of our main issues were attendance related. Our Vael first kill was only 36-37 people in the raid and when you are already struggling, missing a few players makes a big deal. After the Vael kill we got our act together and managed to get realm first kills on all remaining bosses in BWL including Nefarian.
My memory of 2005 was that Vael was unbeatable by 95% of guilds, and then all of a sudden, after like 2-3 weeks, everyone started beating him, and rarely failed, implying he was secretly nerfed. But nobody else I've talked to seems to remember it that way.
I thought Vaelastrasz (2nd boss BWL) was even more of a guild killer than Razorgore. I guess if your guild disbands because of Razorgore you don't event see Vaelastrasz in the first place :D
Not related but in AQ40 the twinbrothers fight, the "magic inmune" boss is acuallty not inmune to holy magic. It does not really matter, but i found it incrediblly fun to smite the boss with my priest.
Aside from it always having been nuts that they actually recruited Furor someone I remember from my EverQuest days, it's kind of nutty that he kept his job after his response to being told that the raid was impossible was to call players... that.
Honorable mention goes to *Ossirian the Unscarred* , also known as the 'Pugbreaker' who is way more difficult than any other 20 men raid boss (if you consider Hakkar in the 0 priest way which is how most raids do it). Just like the 4HM it was a sensitive boss at which even minor mistake could lead to wipe. - Not kiting the boss properly: WIPE - Clicking the crystal too early or too late: WIPE - Tank gets sucked into the tornado: WIPE - Caster dd overaggros due to magic school vulnerability: WIPE - Curse of tongues not decursed, therefore, not enough healing to the tank: WIPE. Obviously for guilds it isn't a difficult boss, but pug groups often have to leave the raid with the shame of only 5/6 bosses killed.
I still remember there was no RUclips when Razorgore came out. You basically had to come up with your own strategies or scour other guild forums to see their strategies. Our guild somehow came up with the idea of getting our 4 hunters to just kite the dragonkins until the eggs were dead. It was incredibly hectic and we actually replaced like 3 hunters through progression because of how annoying that fight was.
At the launch of patch 1.10 Onyxia had some issues with her deep breaths in phase 2. The video 'bugged onyxia is serious' was quite legendary at the time😂
Madseason becoming more unhinged over the years with the ads and cursing more and owning me by doing a "your mom" joke 30 sec in....im so here for it 😂
The touch of using Sign of Evil for the Twin Emperors showcase is so insane. I was thinking about the video when I finished watching, and when the realization of what you did hit, I made some audible noises irl
Great video, only note I have is that on my server at least it was Vael rather than Razorgore that was the guildbreaker. There were multiple top MC guilds that spent 2 months wiping on Vael and disbanded. That was the one that was notorious back in 2005 as your threshhold into BWL
Prophet Skeram was a guild breaker too. Great video though! Last good vanilla server was Elysium until you could buy everything. Raid day and raid prep was epic. DM tribute buffs, Hakkar heart, Darkmoon fair, all the consumables on planet earth, etc. Fun times.
I did enjoy your video Mad, and i have seen lists of hardest wow bosses, and some of these i don't remember seeing before, like the Loatheb and Ouro, really cool stuff, and i always enjoy the details.
I did not expect to hear Doom soundtrack in a MadSeason vid. I started WoW not long before BC came out so I never really knew the pain of the top-end vanilla raid bosses, so this is quiet interesting!
I only got into raid during WOLTK, playing casual through Vanilla and BC. As you mentioned, no addons, no guides… leveling was hard and time consuming enough. I was “poor” in the game, never spending gold other than training skills and mounts - didn’t know how to use AH. When I learned all these skills, it became much easier to understand and play the mechanics. We did some guild raiding on the older content, and as you mentioned, even at higher levels we would wipe if not paying attention to the mechanics. I can only imagine how frustrating it should have been for the guilds raiding
I had a guild in 2023 that also used a warrior spamming battle shout on twin emps. We didn't always do this, I think we were just lacking a warlock with good enough gear or the right spec to tank at the time, but we did it for a few resets and it worked fine.
Ascent on Rag, man the good old days. I was in Vindication on Medivh, and we got the #2 horde kill on Rag while racing the #3 guild. Talk about drama, it was wild. I still have so many screenshots from that, unfortunately no video though.
Naxxramas was hard. But I think there is a big asterisk behind it. They did put Naxx out and very soon after anounced TBC. Since everyone knew TBC would be more or less gear reset, the will to go and progress Naxx was very close to 0 and people went out to prepare for TBC instead So the 1% of guilds making it is rather unfair comparison I think. Also I'm little said Vael did not get at least honorable mention for boss that killed most players (by far if I remember correctly).
Around the 21 minute mark you mention these guilds are “high raiding guilds” but I would have sworn on the Bible that you said “hydrating guilds” and was very confused for a sec.
Viscidus for alliance was pretty high up too. Not many of the high end guilds back in 2006 killed him on Ally side, unless bringing 12 cheese druid alts.
One thing I've wondered since Classic first launched is if un-nerfed C'thun is now possible. I mean, folks are better at the game now, playing on more powerful machines with internet connections that don't use the phone, and I believe the first clear of MC in Classic was done with fewer than 40 players and most of them between levels 55 and 59. Resources and addons are better too. Unless it's been done on private servers, though, I think it's purely theoretical.
No one ever talks about Emeriss, Lethon, Dr.Weivel. Those fights are pretty difficult especially if another grp is harassing you at the world boss. It can be intense
The toughest raid boss of Vanilla: Frame rate and Internet connections. I played on such a potato that I had to point my camera at my feet while tanking.
Yeah, WoW may run smooth now on its outdated architecture but back in 2005, it was arguably the most poorly optimized game for PC for at least a decade.
Lmao i remember doing that bacl in the tbc days
Clearing Serpentshrine Cavern, Hyjal, Tempest Keep, and Illidan while rocking 4 FPS was a nerve wracking yet magical experience. I even managed to outdamage most of my fellow Warlocks even when I did a crazy Felguard build based off a TK drop!
Edit: meant to say Serpentshrine Cavern and not Coilfang Reservoir
@@cobalt968 by coilfang reservoir do you mean serpentshrine cavern?
@@joshea7861 yeah, that’s what I meant. It’s been a long while since I played TBC!
A classic mad season video
You haven't watched it
@@drdynaniteI did
@@professionalhater3929 This video is ~30 minutes long and you posted your original comment 20 minutes ago - just a minute after this video was posted
@@drdynaniteHe watched it at 2x speed… duh!
ClassicSeason when
How have I never known that Loatheb is an anagram for healbot omg
Me neither! I was a healer in vanilla, but didn't use Healbot. Now it all makes sense...
SAme, I was today years old when I learned this. Tbf I wasn't playing WoW back then but still
Never knew that. Started using Healbot back then also.
Honestly, meta fight design like that limiting certain skills is very cool. Imagine a fight where the boss randomly rotates targets and taunts are limited. You need to throw out your original strat and get creative, kite, CC, Slow, bring more tanks 😵💫
As an anagram game enjoyer, and former healing officer during that time for our guild, I have failed my people for not knowing this
Hardest boss was mom telling me to go to bed :/
But Madseason just said your mom was easy
Did you try heroic difficulty by sneaking back out to play 😆
She had a very short enrage timer too! Started almost instantly and could wipe you very quickly.
@@mrmacguffin6886for me I just took her down from the dot effects that triggered with her type 2 diabetes
@@Ed_G_BoiseI did it on mythic. sneak back to play. Turned the router back on and on a school night with a test in first period.
Counting down the top 10 hardest bosses in Vanilla World of Warcraft!
✅Become a channel member for perks, such as early access to most of my videos(and ad-free): ruclips.net/channel/UCOvz3kkYZtCTeXKdiuMG8egjoin
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✅Watch me stream at twitch.tv/madseasonshow
Love the video, are you still streaming...? Checked twitch and it says "MadSeasonShow last streamed 4 months ago"!
Think you forgot to pin this mads
Why didn't you include Retail bosses aswell? Because none of them are actually hard. Kil'jaeden from tomb of sargeras would be an interesting topic.
I’m in bed after a 14-hour night shift, with a plate of food, and this video to watch - thank you so much for your content, I love it.
10/10 old school madseason video
I'm kind of in a top 10 mood lately, so expect more :D they're fun
@@madseasonshow Your videos like these and the Pandora's series are wonderful and have been the primary inspiration for me to make my own channel, focusing on MMO/gaming oddities, history, etc. (starting my first script in a few weeks) -- so thank you for what you do!
In general, I don't think it can be stressed enough the difficulty of simply coordinating 40 people, each with their own specific tasks and abilities in a relatively tight room, during a time when WoW was the antithesis of optimized for the average PC and when dial-up was still widely used and at best, broadband was around 15Kbps, to say nothing of having 40 people on Ventrillo at the same time. Some raid encounters were downright slideshows of a framerate. It's amazing we managed to successfully clear some of these raids, tbh.
It also sucked that a lot of guilds that were even working AQ40 and Naxx had a very small window before The Burning Crusade dropped and did away with 40-mans altogether.
Plus when your guild leader is getting divorced with guild healer wife as everyone is running to zone in
@@scienz0220
@@soummyeah8271 did you use the hack to remove the bar that took up like 1/3 of your screen? hahah
No way was internet only 15kbps back then. I had 56kbps at least five years before that and it wasn’t unreasonable in cost.
@@mynameisben123 fancy pants rich mcgee over here.. I lived in the country; we legit didn't get anything faster than 28.8kbps until ~2008 when they released cellular based internet and I paid like $150/month for 512kbps with my job at whataburger rofl I agree w/ you though.. not the norm.
You forgot about Undercity elevator Boss😂😂
😂
Haha yep the most devastating evil, I can visually see the pile of skeleton bones of players in it right now 😆
And phase 2 Black Wing Decent elevator
Weirdest glitch that I remember was getting dc'd after accidentally clipping through the undercity elevator; when I relogged, I was in the lake in Stonetalon Mountains, with the Undercity Guardians floating next to me.
Antorus elevator boss was harder ngl
God damn I've never been burnt so many times less than 60 seconds into a video 😂
that's what your mom also said
I haven't felt a burn like that since the first time I peed after a night with your mom
ikr lmfao
Another video idea: vanilla zone transitions. I remember back then one of the most immersive things about WoW was that I could walk whole continents with no loading screens, and they did some unique things with transitions between zones. Some only had one or two set paths in and out, like Dun Morogh to Loch Modan, but I remember vividly that I could cross from Elywnn to Duskwood at any point over that river, those two areas were fully connected, not just a single tunnel or road,
There were some iconic transitions. The Dwarf tunnel into the Searing Gorge, crossing the river into Darkshire like you mentioned, Un'Goro Crater was incredible. (Such a great vanilla zone). Anything in the Arathi Highlands.
Btw, you know there was loading, only cleverly hidden, right? I honestly never understood this obsession of "no loading screens" :) But that's just me, it never bothered me.
@@PetrSojnek No loading screens is an immersion element. The ability to seamlessly transition between zones emulates real life that keeps the player engaged with the zone and the environment. The loading screen is a stark reminder that the player is in a game.
@@PetrSojnek It's a big deal.. among with open world.
I remember playing Star Wars the Old Republic MMO and all those loading screens and very small areas in the planets were somewhat limiting immersion.. though I understand that the technology back then wasn't up for a whole galaxy wide open world :) But yeah I wanted some more roaming space there I guess.
I would throw in Viscidus, even in Classic WoW that was a very tricky boss, for regular guilds.
True
Yeah, we tried him a few times but the clock was ticking and we didn't have much time before TBC dropped so we gave up on him. We did managed to kill Ouro though.
He was so insanely much harder as alliance than Horde. If you weren't a guild full of engineers, you couldn't one-phase him, and the poison mechanic kept draining the mana of every healer. Most non-hardcore guilds tended to clear him with the LBRS poison sacs.
viscidus is harder than ouro, c'thun and some naxx bosses on this list but hey
@@Paal2005 Then the door strat was figured out and he became a joke.
Love the Silvermoon music addition to this video. My favorite music in the game.
I never played vanilla in its day, I only started with TBC. I was maybe 12-13 when I started with my friends, and we had no idea what we were doing. Me and my best buddy made night elf hunters (duh) and probably spent a month in Teldrassil.
At one point along the harrowing journey to level 10, one of us made a dwarf, and found out that you could get guns!! Game changer. But we learned quickly that you needed to travel to Ironforge to train guns. I don’t know how we managed to figure out how to get there, but we had a quest of our own now… obtain guns. So we leveled up to maybe 11-12, found the boat to Menethil harbor, and began the infamous run through the Wetlands. After hours of sprinting past angry crocolisks, we finally made it Ironforge, trained the guns skill with the meager silver we had, and finally equipped our blunderbusses. We took the tram to Stormwind, and proudly drew our new weapons to inspire wonder in the other players. “How did these Nightelves manage to get guns? They must be total badasses” or some variation must have going through everyone’s minds.
I miss those days so dearly, when everything was new and exciting. When I had no idea there were optimal talents and gear. I never made it to the max level while we played. Wrath came out when I was in the 50s and we were laser focused on 55 for the Deathknight. We plowed through to 68 as fast as possible (very trivial even for us with how insane the DK was then) and then bounced on and off with the game only getting to 79. I leveled to 85 in Cata but never did a single end game dungeon, and when I came back to give things a look in WoD everything was so different with microtransactions I didn’t want to play anymore.
I had an absolute blast with Classic, but unfortunately it came at a very bad time in my life and I didn’t get to experience the ladder with everyone. I would love to be able to go back in time and play as a kid once again, but such is the way of life. Your videos bring me back to those days even though I never even got to do any of these things, I doubt I even know raids existed at the time.
Have you tried any version of wow recently?
@@markjackson5333thanks
Damn I wasnt expecting so much burn before it even started! Never change ChadSeason
I'm glad Madseasonzzard decided to release this Classic Madseasonshow content.
It's just like being there day one.
Being a long time player, basically when the game came out, I marvel at how much Madseason remembers and how much footage he has of the early days. Well done sir.
Haven't played WoW since classic became retail again, but like the obsessive addict I am I click on this video within seconds and watch every minute of it. Your soothing voice keeps me coming back, time and time again
Same.. I started in TBC and now regret I didn't clone my main and missed the opporturnity when they removed it.. I quit TBC before I managed to get 70.. didn't want the hamsterwheel again.
I started playing WoW too late to see vanilla raids in all their glory. I used to love hearing the stories from the seasoned raiders who used to tackle these bosses.
Great video and the nostalgia is real!!
Man, almost 20 years…coming from EQ we were just happy to not have brutal XP death penalties, corpse retrieval, or raid bosses on week long respawn timers in the open world.
All things considered, for a small guild, I think we did ok at the time and had fun with it. Good times.
Smaller guilds tend to foster stronger bonds I feel
I must say I quite enjoy the little touch of your background music selection and casual Horde distain. Keep up the excellent work friend!
One thing that never gets mentioned in these videos is the ultimate boss - servers. When we played back in 2005 on the opening of BWL, guilds had to communicate via icq or ventrillo to let each other know when they were pulling, because if two guilds pulled Nefarian at the same time, the servers would crash and everyone would fucking die.
No one was on nefarion day 1.
@@carsoncoley1 I never said we were. You had to coordinate pulls on Razorgore for the same reason.
AQ wasn’t that bad because a lot of guilds were still struggling through long BWLs, but Anub in Naxx was a fucking slideshow.
Man, our moms were really busy back in 2000s.
My guild wiped night one for 3 hours on razorgore. We were stuck on this boss for 2 weeks only to be stuck again for 2 more weeks on the next boss, vael, idk how we didn't implode.
They really learned their lesson not making the first 2 bosses the hardest in the raid, bar maybe the last boss himself
@@Reac2 Well you learned a lot of gameplay and working together while clearing BWL up to Nefarian.. so it wasn't that hard anymore :)
Also the gear updates were pretty good compared to MC gear.
Loatheb = Healbot how did I never notice that before! 🤯
2 mom jokes in less then 1 minute in to the video this is a classic video ❤
In the days pre-BC. I used to make a killing blacksmithing dark iron gear for MC raids. I worked on my thorium brotherhood rep for months and months, I was a rogue so it was easy to get to the grim guzzler to the quartermaster for all the plans and to the black anvil to craft all the dark iron gear people needed for Fire resistance, I even made a sulfuron hammer for a guy who had an "eye of sulfuras" drop for him. Those days crafting felt important. That's when molten core felt like the peak in raid difficulty. But was at the same time, so incredibly rewarding.
While I wouldn't say he's as mechanically complex as the bosses on this list, Vael was tough to execute, back in the day. I distinctly recall spending many more hours/weeks on getting Vael down than Razorgore. In fact, the first boss I had ever heard referred to as a raid, or guild, killer was Vael. The precise tank swaps and threat control required by the raid made it quite difficult, not to mention the time limit and people just blowing up all over the place.
Same.. we had some troubles with Razorgore until we figured out a guy who knew how to do the mindcontrol part great and hunters (me included) did a huge job at kiting the dragonkins.
After that we faced another block and much bigger one. Vael. That was a fight where your whole raid had to put some decent dps numbers. I have a video of our guilds first kill of Vael back in the days in my channel ;)
I think one of our main issues were attendance related. Our Vael first kill was only 36-37 people in the raid and when you are already struggling, missing a few players makes a big deal.
After the Vael kill we got our act together and managed to get realm first kills on all remaining bosses in BWL including Nefarian.
Vael wasn't an issue for us... loved that boss though as a fury warrior!! the damage 😅😅
@@DavidWBeck Yeah Vael was quite nice as fury, if you didn't over agro.. heheh
Vael was the number 1 player killer for all of vanilla. He was a gearcheck but gear is part of it too. Id say he broke more guilds than any other
My memory of 2005 was that Vael was unbeatable by 95% of guilds, and then all of a sudden, after like 2-3 weeks, everyone started beating him, and rarely failed, implying he was secretly nerfed. But nobody else I've talked to seems to remember it that way.
I thought Vaelastrasz (2nd boss BWL) was even more of a guild killer than Razorgore. I guess if your guild disbands because of Razorgore you don't event see Vaelastrasz in the first place :D
That Mario track for KT segment was absolutely PERFECT!! It just fit right!!!
Never thought Mario music would work so well with... wow
Bravo 👏🏼
Not related but in AQ40 the twinbrothers fight, the "magic inmune" boss is acuallty not inmune to holy magic. It does not really matter, but i found it incrediblly fun to smite the boss with my priest.
I Love the music choice for the Twin Brothers
Yeah, props for using the old school music from the Doom games
Aside from it always having been nuts that they actually recruited Furor someone I remember from my EverQuest days, it's kind of nutty that he kept his job after his response to being told that the raid was impossible was to call players... that.
The "your mom" jokes at the beginning undercut what I presume will be many comments haha
Honorable mention goes to *Ossirian the Unscarred* , also known as the 'Pugbreaker' who is way more difficult than any other 20 men raid boss (if you consider Hakkar in the 0 priest way which is how most raids do it).
Just like the 4HM it was a sensitive boss at which even minor mistake could lead to wipe.
- Not kiting the boss properly: WIPE
- Clicking the crystal too early or too late: WIPE
- Tank gets sucked into the tornado: WIPE
- Caster dd overaggros due to magic school vulnerability: WIPE
- Curse of tongues not decursed, therefore, not enough healing to the tank: WIPE.
Obviously for guilds it isn't a difficult boss, but pug groups often have to leave the raid with the shame of only 5/6 bosses killed.
the Bat boss(ZG) was much better for that role
pugs just couldnt do it
they'd disband after killing Snake & some trash and then NOTHING ELSE
Dude, I haven’t seen one of your vids in so long. Glad you’re still around. Love your content
I still remember there was no RUclips when Razorgore came out. You basically had to come up with your own strategies or scour other guild forums to see their strategies. Our guild somehow came up with the idea of getting our 4 hunters to just kite the dragonkins until the eggs were dead. It was incredibly hectic and we actually replaced like 3 hunters through progression because of how annoying that fight was.
At the launch of patch 1.10 Onyxia had some issues with her deep breaths in phase 2. The video 'bugged onyxia is serious' was quite legendary at the time😂
Madseason becoming more unhinged over the years with the ads and cursing more and owning me by doing a "your mom" joke 30 sec in....im so here for it 😂
New madseason and it’s 30 mins?? The gods have blessed us today
The touch of using Sign of Evil for the Twin Emperors showcase is so insane. I was thinking about the video when I finished watching, and when the realization of what you did hit, I made some audible noises irl
Havent played in years. Still watch every video u release!
Hardest part was finding 40 competent players
The back to back your mom jokes was great.
Epic mario music at Saphiron and Kelthuzad gave me goosebumps.
TBC next please! I haven't played WoW since Wrath but have always loved watching your videos
Great video. Ideas for more: hardest dungeon bosses, easiest raid bosses, easiest dungeon bosses.
This whole video is a great walk down memory lane.
Almost makes me miss my vanilla guild, lol.
Great video, only note I have is that on my server at least it was Vael rather than Razorgore that was the guildbreaker. There were multiple top MC guilds that spent 2 months wiping on Vael and disbanded. That was the one that was notorious back in 2005 as your threshhold into BWL
Surprised at no Vael or Viscidus, I remember those being some of the toughest for their time.
I'm pretty sure the add-on architecture was changed well before Naxx to disallow healbot and the healing auto cancel add-on.
The vibes in this video are *chef's kiss* The music choices, the nostalgia, MadSeason's typical oration...
Never knew that Loatheb was an anogram on Healbot. Amazing video as always!
Good to see you still making videos. I stumbled upon your channel and you gave me that wow itch again. I subbed a few weeks ago
For Horde Saphiron was WAYYY more difficult than Kel'Thuzad because Shamans suddenly had to press other spells than Chain Heal.
I dnt remember that well , why is that? Is it because they had to use individual heals more often than CH?
they pushed Chain Heal (ezmode) a lot in that fight
this guy is nub
I bet a lot of Ally guilds had to run 8+ priests on Saph
We love you MadSeason!❤❤❤
Mad season getting raw on it in the first minute, that's why he is the king!
The best thing to listen to while trying to fall asleep . Great relaxing voice , Thank you ! 👍☺
Prophet Skeram was a guild breaker too. Great video though! Last good vanilla server was Elysium until you could buy everything. Raid day and raid prep was epic. DM tribute buffs, Hakkar heart, Darkmoon fair, all the consumables on planet earth, etc. Fun times.
I did enjoy your video Mad, and i have seen lists of hardest wow bosses, and some of these i don't remember seeing before, like the Loatheb and Ouro, really cool stuff, and i always enjoy the details.
I did not expect to hear Doom soundtrack in a MadSeason vid.
I started WoW not long before BC came out so I never really knew the pain of the top-end vanilla raid bosses, so this is quiet interesting!
I only got into raid during WOLTK, playing casual through Vanilla and BC. As you mentioned, no addons, no guides… leveling was hard and time consuming enough. I was “poor” in the game, never spending gold other than training skills and mounts - didn’t know how to use AH. When I learned all these skills, it became much easier to understand and play the mechanics. We did some guild raiding on the older content, and as you mentioned, even at higher levels we would wipe if not paying attention to the mechanics. I can only imagine how frustrating it should have been for the guilds raiding
The hardest raid boss was getting 40 people to show up. I will fight on that.
Great vid.
That Force Your Way remix was pretty rockin' by the way.
Joe's Nerdgasm... I see what you did there Madseason (someone was gonna ask who Joe is)
the song during the twin empires is pretty dope. lots of despair
I didn't know that little tidbit about loatheb -> healbot, that's pretty cool. Also, I like the doom music.
Thanks for the feature yo!🥰
Good ole' fashon MadSeason Video. Love it dude!
I had a guild in 2023 that also used a warrior spamming battle shout on twin emps. We didn't always do this, I think we were just lacking a warlock with good enough gear or the right spec to tank at the time, but we did it for a few resets and it worked fine.
no mention of hogger?
he does not take 40 but nice honorable mention
Missed you madseason
Ascent on Rag, man the good old days. I was in Vindication on Medivh, and we got the #2 horde kill on Rag while racing the #3 guild. Talk about drama, it was wild. I still have so many screenshots from that, unfortunately no video though.
The only one I killed was Ragnaros. 😂
Great video, thanks a lot!
Sanca
Didn't get to experience OG Vanilla, but in Classic my guild had more wipes on Twin Emps than any other boss. 😅
Love the part using Super Mario World Ghost House background music
Starting off with multiple Your Mum jokes, im all in!
I remember the 4H fight. Farming that spell hit trinket as tank pissed off a lot of casters. One missed taunt was all it took to wipe though...
hotdamn how many years later and only now i learn loatheb is an anagram.
The hardest raidboss in vanilla wow is actually a duo-combo: FPS and internet
I will never forget the two months we spend with my guild to get nature gear for Huhuran
Naxxramas was hard. But I think there is a big asterisk behind it. They did put Naxx out and very soon after anounced TBC. Since everyone knew TBC would be more or less gear reset, the will to go and progress Naxx was very close to 0 and people went out to prepare for TBC instead So the 1% of guilds making it is rather unfair comparison I think. Also I'm little said Vael did not get at least honorable mention for boss that killed most players (by far if I remember correctly).
Around the 21 minute mark you mention these guilds are “high raiding guilds” but I would have sworn on the Bible that you said “hydrating guilds” and was very confused for a sec.
Even with all the nicely edited videos, data, diagrams, simulations, and mock fighting, we still had people walking the wrong way on 4 horsemen.
This video is great. Now i'm going to watch it
3:57 didn’t kill the guild but it did stop our progress cold, and started the trend of people not attending progress nights.
The double “Your mom” roast got me so bad lol
Factorio background music catches me off-guard every time, lol
Viscidus for alliance was pretty high up too. Not many of the high end guilds back in 2006 killed him on Ally side, unless bringing 12 cheese druid alts.
1:59 The legion raid in Darkness Falls - DAoC. What a gem.
Madseason with another banger
When you had Cthun at #2, I was fully expecting a Hogger #1 spot
One thing I've wondered since Classic first launched is if un-nerfed C'thun is now possible. I mean, folks are better at the game now, playing on more powerful machines with internet connections that don't use the phone, and I believe the first clear of MC in Classic was done with fewer than 40 players and most of them between levels 55 and 59. Resources and addons are better too. Unless it's been done on private servers, though, I think it's purely theoretical.
The doom music 😂 love it!!
Doom music hits hard when section about Twin Emperors starts.
I see you using that Super Mario World music
Madseason has two dads so he's immune to mom jokes.
Never played WOW but I laughed alot during this video due to the old-time madness in alot of games from back when.
he's bacckk
No one ever talks about Emeriss, Lethon, Dr.Weivel. Those fights are pretty difficult especially if another grp is harassing you at the world boss. It can be intense