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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- Want to include a small Lithium Ion or Lithium Ion Polymer battery into your next project? It's easy! Dave gives you the low down on how they work and how to charge them and select a suitable charging IC.
NOTE: For safety you should always use circuit protected cells as per the larger cell I was holding up. It protects against over-discharge, over-voltage, shorts etc.
(BTW, the reference to Lithium Ion Polymer being the same as Lithium Ion is in terms of charging, if that was not clear. The Ion Polymer type have polymer anode material and hence a different construction that allows the small pouch type cells shown in the video, and other thin odd shapes shown toward the end) 
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Your enthusiasm is taking me with you :) Just found you because I was suddenly wondering how li-ion batteries charge
Thank you for doing this, you helped me found my business 10 years ago and I really wanted to thank you.. I was able to do so much without having gone to school because of your videos.
Yeah I think Dave said he went to electronics school but built things before that that helped him self pass through.
Dave - I've been watching EEVblog videos all weekend. Looking to get back into my hardware engineering roots. I find these incredibly useful and motivating. Thanks so much for all your work on them.
Love the video, Dave's back! Please keep up the long videos like this, this information, level of detail, and overall information is not easy to get elsewhere. I always feel like I've learned a bit more after watching one of these, please keep it up!
this guys amazing and very knowledgeable. although he looks to have been filled with a couple hundred volts over time himself.thanks for the great videos.
You've gotta love Dave's enthusiasm!
Btw, great video!!!
@@MrDoneboy=0
good job man
Thank you! I had very little knowledge of the charging characteristics of lithium ion cells. I watched a couple videos on the topic and came away confused. I didn’t know there was a constant current charge cycle followed by a constant voltage charge cycle. As always, I thought you explained it extremely well and I easily understood what you were saying. I have often said, how much you learn is not as dependent on how smart you are but how smart your teacher is. Thank you!
I love the way the Aussies talk! :) All happy and positive 👍🏻
I come back and rewatch this when I'm getting fuzzy, Dave is the best.
Your blogs are actually brilliant! Please keep up the inspiring and passionate videos!
I love the passion! So glad you're doing something that you clearly enjoy. I hope that never changes
Im 16 years old and ive been building all kinds of circuts and started using embeded processors like the AVR's not to long ago and I just wanted to say that I love your blog and its helped me so much with learning all these concepts :)
so thanks for all your doing and keep it up.
One thing to watch is power dissipation on the linear chargers - at charge currents over a few hundred mA, you don't need too much input-output voltage differential before the charge time gets extended due to the charger going into thermal limiting. Most of the cheap ones aren't packaged to conduct heat out well.
Seriously appreciate the content as an aspiring creator / engineer trying to learn on my own. Advice is top notch. Bloody good channel and keep up the great vids ❤
Thank you for all the time invested. You have a knack for explaining
Actually past Dave, Li-poly are different from Li-Ion. Poly cells are prismatic and typically for high drain applications up to 30C, while most ion versions are for lower drain applications up to 20A and are usually manufactured as cylindrical cells
li po is li ion
"You really should know because it's interesting." Love it! :D
Minor remark: charging is never exothermic with respect to the charged battery. The heat production comes from energy loss, the energy coming from the charger. Charging must be endothermic, because the chemical reaction to deliver energy necessarily must be exothermic.
Great explanation and great videos, BTW. Thanks a lot.
Awesome. So many things I wanted to know about these batteries and their charging all in one video. Thanks. You've got a friend in Raglan!
Excellent deep dive into Lithium Ion technology!
Very helpful kickstart to my understanding of lithium Ion charging. Thanks!
Overall Your videos are awesome, thanks - helps a lot! :)
But story behind Li-ion, LiPo and LiFePo is a bit different.
Li-ion: Vn = 3.6V (uses transition metal ion eletrolitic compound)
LiPo: Vn=3.7V (uses synthetic polymer compounds as eletrolite lowering internal resistance... this is where +0.1V in avg comes from)
LiFePo: Vn = 3.3V (same synthetic polymer compound as eletrolite + different anode that changes reaction electrochemically itself).
Great info Dave!! cheers for your efforts!!
Fantastic explanation! I worked on power supplies and converters and inverters and find this a really simple but good video explaining the whole thing of Li Ion and charging ckts!
Those Microchip chargers look quite a good deal for a simple application. thanks for the video Dave.
Dave, thanks for the video. I don't know if you did this because of my post on the forum but it came just in time for me.
Best Video for understanding Lithuim Ion Charging process. Thanks Alot. Hope you upload Many more such videos dealing with electronics Stuff
Damn, when I read the discription, I was all like "this is EXACTLY the info I need". Timing couldn't be better, Dave. Going to enjoy this one. :)
Dave Jones you are my favorite RUclips personality. I would follow you anywhere. I only wish that I lived in Australia because then I would ask if I could be shop boy. I would sweep floors, scrub toilets and dismantle electronics for you. I would work for beans and biscuits. I would put a cot in the broom closet and call that home. Is it true that you have a locker at the bottom of the sea where pirates disappear to?
As usual, very informative Dave. Thanks.
Yes, I totally agree. Dave, Im going to have to start donating with these real world tutorials
Thank u so much.This is a great tutorial.This solved all my problems about Li-ion/Li-po battery charging.
Amazing Video! Thank you, for helping to write my tesis with your videos.
He is great! Thank you very much for the great tutorial. To the point and enthusiastic
@chrisgj198 That's probably a separate blog on it's own, low battery detection and cutout. And that applies to any battery technology really.
Thank you so much, Dave! I was just thinking that I’ve seen more hours of your videos than anything Hollywood has produced. Lol. Your videos are amazing.
Thank's a lot, Dave! Love your videos! And you inspired me to make my own.
super later to the lipo battery thing. Thank you for your video and breaking it down for me.
Willy Wonka and the Electronic Factory. Joking around aside, this is a very essential video, helped me a lot. Thanks!
Li-ion and Li-po do have a difference now some Li-Po have higher charging and nominal voltages and they are also also available in large capacity pouches where as li-ion are not and they have higher C ratings much higher compared to Li-Ion
@bcsupport You can get charger ICs for multi-cell packs. I've used a Microchip 2-cell one in the past
you're amazing thank you allllloooot i was looking for such understanding from a long time
@blackmuzzle You can't just make that blanket statement that "modern cells" have no problem. Read the datasheets for all those Li-Poly cells I showed. 0.5C recommended as standard charge, 1C absolute maximum for "fast charge". Always read the datasheet, cell types and their recommendations are many and varied.
Yes, some are specifically designed for very fast charging. The price you pay will usually be cell life.
very informative.......for my phd work.....thank you for this wonderful video
Excellent Tutorial, Thanks!!!
Hi, im from the future! Thank you for this retro lithium based batteries tutorial, now days we just use flux capacitors.
well duh, it becomes a cold fusion reactor and generates perpetual motion .
yeah i only use the baterizer when i need to get 1.21 GigaWatt more out of my Mr.Fusion.
you're right.i've had that happening to me in galaxy s7 wich ended up destroying the whole universe so i've hooked up a 1N4148 to gnd to prevent any reverse polarity. i only have 4 alternate dimensions points left on my driving licence.
The 4148 is a silicon diode which is nominally 0.7V drop. You would be far happier using a 1N5817 which is a Schottky that drops 0.2-0.3V.
How many flux capacitors do i need to drive a Death Star and make the battle station fully operational?
It's been 11 years since this video was posted and I'm here because I've never built a charger before and I want to learn how.
I'm here because I want to learn how phone batteries work.
thanks Dave! that was pretty easy.
Love this guy so much hhhhh "stick with me because this is easy!" lol it's a 40-min-video
THANK YOU! This helped a lot!
Thank you Dave!
As always Great info.
@TheEPROM9 Reminds me about 15 yrs ago I made a portable BBC micro - used the original case with a 320x240 mono EL display in the lid, and PSU full of nicad D-cells and a DC/DC converter. ISTR I had to mod the sound circuit to run without the -ve rail.
@blackmuzzle Yes, the RC packs are usually designed specifically for high charge/discharge rates, to drive motors and the like. They have different requirements and specs to regular cells that are designed for your ordinary electronic gadgets. Totally different ball game, and one where temperature monitors and safety timers are much more important.
Digital camera batteries for popular camera models can be a nice cheap source of ready-packaged batteries. Ditto camcorder ones, typically 7.2V, and also phone batteries.
Just be aware that clones tend to have 10K resistors instead of thermistors...
@vaneenbergen I totally forgot to mention the protection circuit built into the bigger cell I was waving around. You really should be using these protected cells, they protect against shorts, over-discharge, over-voltage etc.
With the unprotected cells, you have to take more care, and either add your own protection circuitry and/or design your product properly to ensure the battery is not abused.
Hi, I want to replace my defective laptop battery from a 15 years old PowerBook G4. It's using US18650GR cells which are rated at 2100 mAh. They have no integrated protection circuit. Is it possible to change to XTAR cells rated at 2200 mAh or maybe cells rated at 2500 mAh or 3000 mAh? Will it change the charging process and damage my power supply by using a higher current? Will the protection circuit affect the laptops behaviour? Note: when opening the battery, it seemed like there is a built in temperature sensor for the whole package of 6 cells.
Kind regards
Can you explain please how balance chargers are implemented for simultaneous charging to cells in series?
Component level explanation as shown in this video would be appreciated.
Nice video, very educational :)
I'm building a charger using a MCP73833. The datasheet mentioned a design with a mosfet and a Schottky diode to isolate the load behind the charger. This negates the (possible) issue of the system connected to the battery from being affected when the battery is charged.
Very helpful! Thanks again..
Well done! Thanks man!
@TheCrazyInventor Yes, I totally agree. Dave, Im going to have to start donating with these real world tutorials
@bcsupport Most chip manufacturers have devices designed for more than 1 cell. It's usually an option in the parametric search table. You can't just use a single cell charger chip with those.
Thanks for explanation. Well done!
Great explanation
"the other kind of coke"
@mikeselectricstuff Yep, good point Mike. Could probably do another whole blog on just how to implement the charger IC's. Many of the packages like DFN will have thermal pads on the bottom to help with dissipation. The on-chip die temp monitors usually kick in around 120degC and limit the charge current.
Amazing!!! Thanks a lot man!!!
Man now I want to try some of those batteries, especially the bendable one.
Thanks man very helpful.
If you could explain the working of the controller in detail, that'd be awesome!
Dave, we can always rely on you for very solid material, like this one, on Electronic Engineering. Thanks very much. Keep them coming.
Question:
1/ In a charging system, like say on an Electric car (Completely Electric), where REGENERATIVE BERAKING charges the battery, how is this possible? Since, during the REGENERATIVE BERAKING charging process, the battery is still supplying power to operate the various systems on the car (i.e Lights, radio, the Mini fridge with the cold drinks etc). I would be very grateful if you could explain how the battery gets charged during breaking AND if possible, point me to any in-depth detailed reading material, and
2/ Would this explanation apply to other battery types such as Led Acid
3/ Where could I find in-depth detailed information on Lead Acid Battery charging.
Thanks very much.
Wow. Totally helped me out. Fixed me a wireless speaker but in turn, the charger circuitry died. Now I can fix that bad boy.
"Iudadaniaamericana
Beautiful man.
Great Video, Thanks a lot
Most newer dell laptops flash the charge light towards the end of charge, I suppose that means constant voltage.
Man it’s crazy that we’ve been using Li-Ion and Li-Poly for 10+ years.
Haha I had to google "Bob's your uncle". Great stuff!
That was exactly what I needed. I'm interning at NASA and we're building a prototype lunar lander and rover that powers a Li-Ion/Li-Po off solar panels and we were having trouble charging and some other things.
I have a question though: Why is part 2 of the charging process (I believe it's called trickle charging) necessary? Why can't you just charge using the part 1 method up to 100%? Is it a safety thing, an efficiency thing, or something else?
Thanks
good old episodes
Love these white board episodes!!
Hello, your demonstration is just perfect (as others) I am trying to "revive" LIIon batteries for portable vacuum cleaners, they where not used but they are old now (exposition models)
I am not sure, if I plug my CC CV alim directly on the battery elements, may I use for instance 20% of the total voltage and 10% of the charging amp ? I tried on one cell as on the whole group and I see no amps asked by the batteries, nothing happens, SO there is no charging at all I suppose ? Thank you and sorry for the may be stupid question.
amazing!
Thank you!
@vaneenbergen Lithium Ion Polymer are more robust than Lithium Ion. But if you are really concerned, try LiFePo4 as @Pook365 said, they are much safer and won't go exothermic.
You are awesome man
Presuming it’s fine for the alternator, can you use an alternator directly as a charger for big lifepo4 packs? It puts out a Constant voltage of 14.6. And current is limited to 100 amps. It costs a lot to get a 100amp ic
@bcsupport
You can also get IC's for 2S (the MCP73842 for instance). I've no idea past that as that is the highest I've had a use for :)
Just what I need.
Hey Dave, will this method work for RC lithium ion battery packs?
yo did you find it out? justcurious
@@asificam1 q
Hi.
What book do you recommend me in order to fully understand how to build my own lithium-ion battery charger ?
Dear David,
The video is very helpfull and informative to me. Kindly tell me if i want to charge a 30AH/ 12.6V or 12.3V Li battery pack which IC shall we take.
Thanks and Regards
Deepak Kapila
awesome vid! i was woundering is it possible to charge li pols off a solar panel and what kind of electronics would be involved. thanks
Min 12:00 , what i dont get is . Does the battery voltage increase because the charger increases the voltage ? Or is the charger applying 4.2V constantly and still the battery voltage increases just slowly ?
try 3 battery packs in circulation on samba, keeping 1 pack for the load 1 charged and waiting or charging and 1 on charge , this way there's no charging and discharging simultaneously
Great video's, I'm learning so much! Quick question though, I've noticed in some video's you talk about currents or voltages with a term that sounds to me like your saying "not" before the measurment.
For example, around 10:28 you talk about the charge rate and say "not point 5 C". What does this mean? I'm very new and trying to figure out all these terms and such. Thanks!
i know this is 6 years late, but here is you answer
if you watch between 10:05 to 10:16 you will hear him say
IF THIS BATTERY IS 50mAh 50 milli Amp Hours
then 50mAh = 1C
it's the same as saying I'M TELLING YOU THAT 4 BANANA'S = 1 ELEPHANT
you don't need to understand it, you just need to accept it
so if i have 2 banana's , then i obviously have 0.5 Elephant's
got that
well.. he said
IF A BATTERY IS 50mAh it = "1C"
then he says that the Lithium Ion battery is 0.5 C or Naught point Five or Half a C
so....
if 50 = 1C
and you have half a C
you obviously then have a battery with a current of HALF OF 50mAh
THUS.. YOU HAVE A 25mAh Battery
DOES THAT HELP ?
Is the Charge Protection built into those tiny Li-Po cells, usually covered by yellow tape, the same as the Battery Charging Chip you talked about? As in, if my Li-Po cell has built-in Charge Protection circuitry, can I just connect it straight to a 4.2V power supply and expect it to charge correctly on its own? (You may have mentioned this in the video, in which case I missed it...)
Hi, thanks for this useful video.
I have a question about LiPo chargers. What would is the difference between a normal LiPo Charger, for example, four cells, and a Balanced LiPo Charger for four cells.
I mean, is there any difference for the lifespan of the cells?
Could you please clarify this for a newbie?
Let's say I have a simple 150 USD "linear" power supply. And set it up at 0.10C and 4.2Volts. The supply will keep a constant current of 0.1C until the voltage reaches 4.2V and then will go into c.v. mode until the current drops to almost nothing and then I have to disconnect the battery. Exactly at what point of this theoretical procedure will reality deviate due to thermal limiting on the power supply?
Also, are linear PSs ok for this job?
@vaneenbergen
When used properly their dangers although real are very unlikely to ever be encountered. You could always try LiFePo4 batteries instead as they are more or less safe. IC's are available to charge those from Microchip (I presume other ppl as well) I've used the MCP73X23 but they do a couple of others to.
Is the pre-charge 20% of 1C or 20% of the 1/2C (because we charge li-ion at 1/2 C), I have two 3.7 v 710 mAh batteries, one is good so I charged it at (cc) 350 mAh maximum and then (cv) with a limit of 4.2 v until amperage dropped down to the cut off of 35 mAh (10% of charge current) my second battery reads zero volts, so do I do a pre charge of 70 mAh (20% of 1C) or 35 mAh (20% of maximum charge rate)? P.S. I'm practicing using my new bench power supply unit and these batteries are just to practice charging different batteries.
Can you please talk a little bit about battery protection circuits and how to protect the battery with MCP73831 + LDO configuration against under voltage discharge (over discharge).