Thousands of doctors 'planning to leave NHS and move abroad for better pay' | LBC
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- 'The numbers are potentially frightening.'
James O’Brien asks what the government can do to prevent an 'exodus' of NHS doctors, as a study suggests that 13% of them are likely to leave within a year and may move abroad.
The General Medical Council said that this suggested that 96,000 doctors could leave the NHS over the next year, if the figures were extrapolated to the entire health service.
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If a young doctor can not afford a one bedroom flat in London then Britain is truly lost.
It has been lost for nearly a decade mate
People living in tents and cars should have ben the warning.
They rush to lift the cap on bankers' bonuses to 'retain the talent' (talent, my left foot), but apparently we don't need talent when it comes to doctors who literally save lives. We live in the upside down.
That’s the price of property not the wage
London overrated..
The UK government can afford to pay billions to NHS private contractors, private consultancy firms and private energy companies but apparently can not afford to pay doctors and nurses.
Bevause they reap the benefit of private health care
They wouldn't care one jot about the plight of the poor
And then some of those private contractors donate ten million quid to the Tories, so all is well that ends well!
Don't forget that some doctors had to retire in their 50s because their pension pots had reached a £1M. They could always reduce the size of their pensions to raise the money in the now.
Whilst most of the NHS has been behind the drag curve on pay for the last 15 years, doctors have had a couple of larger increases, so you can imagine how much pressure the nurses are under. The private sector cream off the lucrative procedures which can easily be performed where the failure rate is low. The NHS is left to pick up the complex high failure rate jobs. Sometimes the NHS has to pick up the pieces of failed private procedures.
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542is your comment factually correct?. It seems like a tad too much money to be honest, have you got some evidence to back the statement up
?
I’ve got my work residency approved for living in Spain, and I have never been happier to get out of this country
Lucky you, but have empathy for us left in cesspit island ,
Any advice on how to get one? Is language important? I am learning Spanish and want to live in Spain one day.
@@ayoutuber1280 the language factor depends on what you do. I’m a teacher so I’ll be teaching in an international school where all classes are delivered in English. The really tricky part is sorting out the residency card, that is a bit of a labyrinth. Might be worth hiring someone to help explain/translate. The situation with transporting belongings through customs etc is actually insane in terms of the money you’re expected to pay, 100% designed to put you off. Might be worth saving a bit of money beforehand. Easier said than done during a cost of living crisis 🙁
Bienvenido
I hope you'll be happy here!
Well Rishi Sunak says that the numbers of nurses moving abroad has been overstated and is not a major concern - which means we should all be very, very concerned.
If they aren't talking about a plan to fix the issue and instead are saying "It's all okay" then you know they are.
I feel reassured 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This NHS downfall started with Labour Government during Tony/Gordon Era. Even £100 Billion if pumped into this black hole will not fix the problem.
@@cass6885 Well as long as we're talking ancient history, NHS was a Labour Government idea brought in by the incomparable Aneurin Bevan. The decline may have started somewhere around 2008-10. But you can't blame Labour for that entirely. Living standards changed, along with health and life expectancy. And the Tories are the ones that gutted it and partly privatised it by selling off its contracts to wealthy donors like Frank Hester.
@@UKisFK Is the Englishness significant? Is Englishness medically more effective against infection?
It has been the same for 40 years. You can have a Tory government or you can have a functional NHS.
What isn’t dysfunctuinal under the Tories?
It’s free. In other countries it’s not free.
@@aleph8888 . Nothing is free.
@@aleph8888 No, it is not free. we pay NI and tax to cover the NHS. It's just the tories keep the money for themselves and their mates instead of spending it where it should be spent!
@@aleph8888universal healthcare is the cheapest way of running it by a considerable margin
I work in an emergency department (ED) in Perth, Western Australia. One of our (many) lovely ED Trainees from the UK decided to go back home to the UK so he was closer to family. He returned to Perth 3 months later, saying he was utterly horrified by conditions in the NHS ED. He described patients dying in the waiting room waiting to be seen from easily treatable conditions. He said it would destroy him to continue to work in NHS. We are delighted to have him back here. The NHS sounds like it is killing doctors as well a patients.
Not just doctors, but teachers too! Unfortunately, as a teacher I also have considered going abroad where the profession can deliver a higher standard of living.
100%
It's hard to find a profession where going abroad can't deliver a higher standard of living!
Is there a job that will get me to Mars?
Go and best of luck to you. You'll never be happy in this WC we laughingly call 'Great' Britain.
@@SamuelBlack84 might be Tesla related I reckon
If Labour don't take huge steps to fixing and protecting our NHS, we're going to lose it and suffer the horrors of private healthcare.
The NHS used to be the envy of the world...
It is the envy of the world... in British eyes only. Most other countries use a mixture of public and private healthcare that delivers better outcomes. The average Brit just looks at America and goes "Thank goodness we don't have that here!"
The Tories don’t care or value our NHS, just look at the salary negotiations
@scott If you really cared or valued the NHS you would be advocating reform. Otherwise it can't possibly survive. Seems that penny has finally dropped with Labour so there might be hope for the future.
It was Labour that laid off 8,000 doctors last time they were in power.
@@chatham43 oh really, pray tell us your wonderful strategy or are you another speculator and only care about money rather than society…
@@scottmarriott1185Exactly what the cons want, they voted 18 times against the setting up of the NHS in 1954, their behind the demise of the NHS, you all seem to look be on that.😮
@@chatham43 Advocate reform? What kind of 'reform'? Because the Tories kind of 'reform' is to destroy the NHS and privatized EVERYTHING. If the reform you mean is to fund it properly and undo the dependency of private contractors. That would be the way to go, otherwise, you are just another greedy fraud pretending to help.
Our doctors and nurses are absolutely amazing and they deserve better.
They promised us doctors and nurses but instead we got Abdul Azedi and just eat cyclists scrounging about in taxpayer funded hotels.
@@codswallop164
I suppose all of the doctors in the UK are called Smith or Jones. Not possible for an Abdul could be a doctor.
@@codswallop164 cope with the reality: 36% of NHS doctors are immigrants, as are 30% of the nurses.
Agreed and if the UK isn't offering this, then I wish them genuinely the best of luck. My brother is an engineer and never worked in the UK, yet I had someone have an argument with me that he's a bad person for this. They were angry as he was educated in the UK and has never worked here. Well if the UK doesn't offer decent salaries in his field, why stay.
Labour laid off 8,000 of our doctors in 2007, I think many of those became locum's and now they say they can't find work.
Tens of thousands of doctors are leaving the country for better pay and walking away from their student loan commitments. Who can blame them. I would if I was them.
You don’t just walk away from debt by moving abroad.
@@aleph8888if it smells like a tax walks like a tax
It's a Tax
@@aleph8888 your student loan is taken out directly from your PAYE record and NINO, any earnings you make abroad can not be touched by the student loans company and you can choose whether or not to pay the debt
Hope they pay the student loan back out of decency.
@@FreaksSpeaks assuming of course they did train in the UK, or are all the doctors leaving British born and trained.
Not just better pay, but significantly better working conditions and as a result better life quality, better mental health, better job satisfaction, etc. Don't just reduce it to pay - which is a significant factor, but not the only one.
In most countries there is only the private sector. People have to pay for medical help. I did when I was in Australia.
They are all going work in other countries just like the vast majority of European doctors and nurses that worked in the NHS did after brexit. This what happens when people are made to feel undervalued, unappreciated &/ or unwelcome. Personally I don't blame them, I'd do exactly the same.
B.S
@BlackHawk4062 Cope. This wasn't on the bus was it?
@@BlackHawk4062 Which part of what I said are you disputing, the part about European doctors and nurses no longer wanting to work for the NHS or the UK doctors and nurses following them.
@@user-ol6rd7pl5tCould you not tell from his incredibly salient well thought through and argued point?
It will be interesting to hear Tories who support free market economics commenting on doctors who are going abroad for better money and conditions.
Woah! it's only a free market when it suits their donors!
Woah woah woah! Don't question their hypocrisy! It's the _one_ skill they have...
The question is, why wouldn't you want to leave billionaire Ritchie Sunak's Britain?
Hes not a billionaire
@@jordizeeHe's near enough.
@monkey Well perhaps you could be a billionaire in another life..if you eat your greens!😂😂
@@jordizee
$ usd
@@jordizeehes not gonna add you on facebook bro
A lot of the junior doctors I went to university with have already gone. And why? Lack of pay, overworked and a feeling of demoralisation within the NHS. And do not forget the nurses straddled with tuition fee debt now, low pay & long, arduous hours. Nurses specifically it feels very much like they are taken advantage of as this is a predominantly female profession.
These people choose to work in healthcare predominantly as a calling. We should not be taking them for granted when Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Japan, America & Canada are quite happy to provide them more.
All healthcare professionals have been shafted
So who should pay for their tuition?
@@jordizeethe taxpayer. The nurses are after all part of the healthcare system that looks after the taxpayer free of up front charge. Scotland manages it.
Yeah, nurses, especially those with specialty qualifications are, in HIGH demand in the US!
Don't look for a warm welcome in New Zealand as a health professional. The Ministry of Health has such insanely high standards that even Florence Nightingale wouldn't get in.
The strikes are an act of desperation and nothing to do with greed.
@user They have every right to be greedy the way they've been treated. What do you mean?
@@chatham43 I know plenty of doctors although I'm not one myself, they are hard working and do not do the job to get rich however the poor pay presents new doctors from entering the profession, it's also a major contributing factor to doctors retiring early.
They want a fair rate of pay for a highly skilled job with long and often unsocial hours, they want the best for their patients and this government is failing to provide that, they have ignored supply and demand for skilled practitioners.
I’m an Orthopaedic Surgeon in Australia. I live in a coastal regional city of 85,000 covering an area of 110,000 people over an area the size of Belgium. Our department has 6 surgeons, 3 of whom were trained in the U.K. and moved here for a better work life balance, better pay and conditions and to actually feel valued. 1 is South African and 1 is Czech. I’m the only one who was Australian trained and I’m still a Brit, I just moved here earlier at the end of my 3rd year out of medical school.
Im a brit who did my fellowship in Australia. You did well. But Australians do not want us to go there to take their jobs. They have a great deal.
@@creativesource3514 incorrect, theyre being encouraged, directly advertised to.
@@BenState The ausi govt like it and need GPs and junior A&E staff in remote areas. Australians tend to not want to go there.
But Australian consultants in the big 5 cities do not want any competition slicing up the private practice.
Foreigners tend to get failed in the FRACS exam which they make the surgeons do. Part of it is subjective as it's vivas.
@@creativesource3514 re-read my post
How long did it take you to get on that pathway? Because moving here 3 years after medschool and becoming an orthopaedic surgeon seems pretty wild to me.
Just take a look at which politicians have shares in healthcare provision companies, then don't vote for them.
These doctors are boasting about working for profit making health care. Lol
I live in Waverley, and our local MP is Jeremy Hunt who of course is a former health secretary who recently said that £100,000 is not a huge salary. Of course, the right wing media think that any public sector worker or anyone in a unionised profession earning that much is a 'fat cat' - be they a doctor, train driver, or council director (although in the case of train drivers it would only be possible with significant overtime).
I went on an industry news website which accidentally used a picture of a different Waverley Council offices in Australia. If I moved there, not only would I have a much better chance of actually earning £100,000 in a more senior role within my profession, but I'd be able to enjoy Bondi Beach!
Jeremy Hunt caused more harm to the NHS between 2012-2018 than any other politician in British political history.
@Christopher So it's bon voyage...don't forget to slap on the sunscreen though!😊
Bondi Beach is awful, the northern beaches are far superior to Bondi.
Presumably, Jeremy Hunt would be happy to pay junior doctors £100,000 a year, considering that he does not consider it a "huge salary"...no?
Its not when you compare it to the private sector for the same hours and responsibilities. In fact its garbage.
20% drop in gbp after Brexit hasn’t helped. Makes foreign salaries better
Thats a massive red herring. You can discuss the issues of brexit and there are some but the value of the pound versus the euro is actually up now than when the brexit vote occured in 2016
@user And you can confirm you didn't make it up this time?
@@beadle111gaming this is demonstrably untrue, where did you get these figures from? The pound was the second worst performing currency on Earth in 2016 and it's purchasing power has continued to deplete
20 years ago, Australian doctors, dentists and nurses moved to the UK to earn better money and better prospects. Now, British-trained doctors and medical staff move to Australia for better money and lifestyle prospects... How the tables do turn.
do you belive Australians will accept them? With their housing crisis?
@@WojciechowskaAnnaThey are accepting them, my friend is leaving for Australia
@@WojciechowskaAnna immigration has been modified to preference high skills individuals instead of muppets driving ubers
It’s not just doctors it’s engineers and technicians.
I moved to the USA in 2007 and my earnings are triple the Uk rate.
This is what the tories want.
They estimate 50k nurses and 5k doctors left after brexit
If this true then those were the wise one. This ship NHS is going down every day.
40,000 walked out because they refused to take the Covid 19 injections.
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542what utter cr@p are you talking about? NHS staff didn't have to have them, they weren't mandatory. Also, where's your data from?
@@rustynail1194 It was mandatory, it was reported on the media at the time. Alan Miller at the Together Declaration has been campaigning for all of those 40,000 people to receive compensation. The trade union has been involved in cases too on their behalf. My friends daughter left working in a care home due to mandatory injections.
It was take the jab or leave your job. It is mandatory again now too if a person works in a hospital. This year a therapist that works with cancer patients at the hospital was told that she would have to take the injection again to carry on working at the NHS hospital. The first time she took it, she got blood clots and was quite ill, so she didn't take the 2nd shot. But this year they were telling her that she'd have to take it. I told her that the job wasn't worth it and to put her own life first. My GP also shared with me this year that he was told that if he didn't comply, he would lose his job.
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542 so that’s just a lie….
When it comes to experienced NHS staff, if they aren't planning to move abroad, they're planning on early retirement. We are currently in a crisis, but are sleep walking into a disaster.
Bankers and non-dom's threaten to leave govt begs to stay
Doctors threaten to leave, govt waves goodbye
Even if they leave they still have to pay tax on any earnings from the UK.
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542Didn't the UK has ‘double taxation agreements’ with many countries to make sure you do not pay tax twice.
You might be able to pay National Insurance while you’re abroad if you’re planning to come back to the UK claim the State Pension later, if you earn some money in UK sure...
@@cesariglesias297 They've got rid of non-dom status. Which means that Rishi's wife has to pay tax in the UK.
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542 Those are almost copying the US colony grift they will get the same freedom and they will go for the healthcare
All the government can answer is they're (somehow) increasing the training of new doctors. How this will happen unless the career is less hostile?
We are training doctors for the Australians!
Haven't you noticed that the more immigrants you bring in, the more hostile it has become?
And if you don't have enough staff in the service to provide essential on the job training, they start moving out as medical students to finish their studies elsewhere.
@@HedgeWitch-st3yy NHS overlords keep on cutting staff to provide more DEI trainers. DEI is the death of the NHS.
Strange how politicians can organise a pay rise for themselves without the need for negotiations, strikes and losing out.
If a facility (hospital, school, ice rink, etc) is falling down, you build a new one first, open it, then close the old one.. its called continuity of service...
Agreed...but they find that empty promises are far cheaper..
I'm Australian and I live in the UK but hands down life in Australia as a nurse, doctor, teacher etc is a million times better. My sister is a teacher, is paid 3 times as much as she was paid when she worked here, has a larger pension fund (11% compulsory pension contributions by employers) and of course she works fewer hours. It's the same story for healthcare professionals.
Some of our doctors had to retire when they're pensions pots reached 1M.
Starting salary for fully certified nurses in Western Australia $85,000.00 , specialised nurses up to $110,000.00 .
Funny how the argument for big CEO salaries (we need to pay to keep the talent) doesn't seem to apply to others.
Truly a mystery for Sherlock Holmes.
When you can get a similar hourly rate at a supermarket as a Junior Doctor... its not surprising.
I started medical school and a few weeks in I learned over a dozen friends already plan to go USA + Australia, and to be honest, I cannot blame them. I have several friends who finished med school and have already left after finishing their Foundation training. This country (and especially this government) have no idea what they're in for in a decades time for staffing.
Scotland's doctors & nurses are better paid than in England & Wales. There are also more practitioners per head of population in Scotland. The A&E figures have been the best in the UK every year since 2016.
Head north young medics where you will receive a warm welcome. There is still hope.🏴
May have to take you up on that. ~F2 doctor NE England
I am in Scotland .You forgot to mention that we have 6 tax levels....so dr in Scotland is paid about 6000 £ less.
North of Scotland is struggling to employ Doctors and Nurses.Everything rely on agency workers who are milking the system.
@@annawolanska3541 I know we have a more progressive tax system in Scotland. That is why we have better services in Scotland.
@@farishussein1853come on up ❤
@@hashburystumble8808 it’s true that doctors are paid more poorly here, it’s the lower paid professions in the NHS that are comparatively paid more in Scotland but the doctors still do not too badly!
My close friend moved to Qatar. Loving life. Another doctor lost.
I worked for 2 years in the NHS in London in 2010 then moved to Australia.
Thinking in retrospect, the workload was killing. Salary was 65% less what I was offered at the time.
I "like" that exactly the opposite is happening from what the Tories promised (lied about) during their Brexit campaign. NHS is going to get gutted, everything gets privatized, everyone loses (except for a couple of rich CEOs and their politician pawns, obviously).
Train people to do a job that entails extreme responsibility, sometimes exhausting hours, poor working conditions and force them to work in a system with a deteriorating infrastructure and on top of that subject them to constant abuse and belittlement in a hostile client media and just to put the cherry on the cake, refuse to pay them properly and they might, just MIGHT, get ideas about chucking it in and going somewhere else, possibly somewhere where they aren't forced to use food banks just to eat.
Who would've thunk it..? I suppose what the country REALLY needs is more Citibankers and Hedge fund managers.
My daughter is now 10 years into working for the NHS as a Dr. Her workload is insane as every shift there is never a full compliment of staff so people who care about patients have to try to cover the gaps. This means going without breaks at all and as she is an anaesthetics Dr working in ITU with the people who are gravely ill. Out of her group at least half have already left to work overseas. The reasons are varied but pay, less hours more respect are just some of them. If the public understood just what we ask of them and how bad the admin is that seems to be the ones who pass the blame and get paid more than Dr's. My daughter does not want to leave but she is getting closer every day as when you have the PM blaming them for waiting lists and the HS who has said she is willing to negotiate in public yet refusing to do any such thing with the BMA. If they had simply offered the same deal as Scotland did this would be over and there would be a start to fixing this mess
My GP runs two practices, so I rarely get to see him, so there isn't any continuity of care.
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542 This happened after the Shipman case where he was giving continuity to his patients and sadly he killed so many because there was no one else to see what was happening. Also GP's, if they are partners are self employed owners of their own practice, contracted to the NHS because they are not getting enough money now per patient they are using unqualified staff like Associates, to do things that you need a Dr to see.
It is a mess which started with Blair but has got steadily worse as number of people here grow and staff leaving
@@jeffoakley2331 Yes I'm aware of that. I read Pulse Today sometimes on-line, the GP magazine. Although the practices made a lot of money from the injections. £25.00 for every patient that took 2 doses of the nanotechnology mRNA. A surgery of 8,000 patients could make a lot during the plandemic.
How shocking that someone as important as an anaesthetist works without a break. It's no wonder patient care is suffering with simple mistakes being made. I'm not blaming the myriad of doctors by the way. It definitely lies at the hands of the government who have our NHS staff working like they are in a war zone.
@@sarahbarrett1247 A foreign male anaesthetist couldn't get it into my arm. My surgeon was furious with him, and gave me gas and air instead. Another time, a foreign male nurse couldn't get a needle in my arm, he kept on bullying me saying it was my fault. In the end the doctor saved the day.
Not surprised. I am a nurse and looking to vacate these shores and go abroad as well. Can't keep renting a room into my 40s. And rent is a joke in London. If you leave London, you lose London weighting and your pay goes down. Yeah I'm done. Looking abroad now. Better quality of life.
Me and my husband are both doctors and are planning to move abroad very soon also.
France, in the countryside, have a shortage of doctors, you would be welcome!
Same here. Dubai in one year .
There’s a place for you in the US
@@patriciawhite619I am not sure that English doctors who are not considered as EU citizens can work in France without sitting for exams. Moreover, you have to speak French. French people do not speak English.
@@heleneculioli-atwood6997 I live in 🇫🇷, very many french people speak and understand English, and the poster hasn’t indicated that they have another language when maybe they do…
Almost all of us would make career decisions in life that benefit us so why shouldn't they. Pay, stress, working conditions, respect, mental health, career development, work-life balance etc. If it's better elsewhere then I don't blame them for leaving.
The Tories don’t want to know how others run a health system which is attractive to workers.
They fear it means more spending.
@@johnrussell3961they fear it means more spending, but not on their donors or themselves.
2 days ago, I was in A&E and the doctor who helped me, he said he is off to Switzerland or Luxembourg, he speaks 4 languages. I told him to enjoy and thank him for helping me.
I think the biggest reason is that many doctors and nurses are leaving right now because from 2025 English diplomas will no longer be recognized in the European Union and this is the last year that these diplomas can still be converted into an EU diploma. just like driving licenses, by the way, if you only have a UK driving license, this will no longer be valid in the EU from 2025. You will have to convert the UK driving license to an international driving license or re-obtain the driving license in an EU country because the normal UK driving license will then no longer be honored. This is also one of the reasons why fewer and fewer EU students have been going to the UK to study in recent years, simply because a diploma obtained in the UK will soon no longer be valid.
Its not just Dr's. Paramedics, Nurses, OT's, Physios all looking to go abroad. Less and less people going into those courses and then rhose who do qualify go into aesthetics or private.
People like to point the finger at the NHS and complain about thr staff not seeing them of giving them the correct referrals, however, when staff are looking after more patients than ever before, whith higher levels of paperwork, safeguarding and bureaucracy than ever before on the lowest wages... Its pretty hard to engage.
Soon enough there will be no one to prescribe your medication, feed you in hospital, wipe your backside or pick you up off the floor. Then you too will wish you're in Australia.
Why wouldn't you move. Better weather, better pay, working conditions, new life experiences, gain dual citizenship for your family. Who wouldn't move if you were them.
I work in IT and I regret staying in the UK, early a comfortable salary, but the UK is broken. Talent drain accelerated with Brexit and the Tory underfunding. Following one of your callers highlighting the abuse, it also shows we as UK people aren't very nice anymore.
My husband is a GP and we are thinking of relocating and most of his friends all feel the same.
People with skills and knowledge have the ability to move to countries which value them more.
I cannot blame them , I did it, the class system embedded iñ the UK suppresses many careers. Promises don't pay bills, workers spend years developing skills only to hit glass ceilings.
Why can't the UK afford to pay doctors as much as Ireland is able to ?
Surely that's a reasonable salary .
Living in Ireland, I can tell you that WE are short of many, many doctors. Rural Ireland is devoid of GPs. My GP had to close down due to health reasons and it is a pain where it hurts to find a new GP.
Its almost like reality defies the tory line again
Its like the UK is regressing into a penal colony Cheers from Australia.
NHS will be privatised by 2030!🤦♀️
It will be sold to a US health insurer and WE will pay them billions to take it out of our hands.
Reap what you sow.
We're all reaping the dry, unfed, harvest the Tories have sown.
I don’t understand the reason for the GMC they work against doctors not for doctors.
Why is there SOOO much debt to learn a profession that is so vital to society!? In a sane world learning a medical profession should be encouraged with low cost access to training it baffles me.
Because this is the usurious bankers. Usurious debt for landless fathers and landowning single mothers. A demonic system that hates traditional families.
And the exodus of many police that were headhunted by Western Australia ..it’s not perfect here but get it why people want to get out of uk and the catastrophe of the country being run by the Tories
The tax system in Scotland is discouraging people to work full time, take overtime as they are penalised
The pension scheme is pushing 55 60 years old professionals to retire to avoid being penalised.This highly qualified people have so much to offer to patients, staff in training but theybare forced to retire!
Australia here. I have seen a lot of nurses moving from the UK to Australia. How do I know? They apply for properties and I manage these properties. I also know that they are very happy here
The prevalence of private medicine in America is the problem.
Well done Tory/Leave voters. You contributed to this, despite being clearly warned about it. Feel proud.
Labour laid off 8,000 doctors in 2007. Some of those became locums. Locums are now reporting that they can't find work. Explain that one!
How can Britain be short of doctors and skilled workers when they are arriving almost daily in boats on the beaches of kent
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542 Trusts are no longer using locum agencies to anywhere near the extent they were, they are a major funding bleed and need stemming. They are now simply piling the work they used to give locums onto permanent staff, or outright cancelling the work. See waiting times for example.
@@mrennie5158 I agree that locums are finding it difficult to find work. Perhaps the NHS is hoping that they start up new GP surgeries. Not giving them any work would be one way to forced them to do that. If they'd like to work start your own GP practice. I can see the methodology in the madness.
Will it be bad for the NHS and Britain YES but I don't blame them.
Cant say that i can blame them,to be honest.
The NHS does an annual staff survey that asks if you are thinking of leaving your job in the next year. Each trust gets their own results (anonymous) but it would be really interesting to see the trend across the country over the last few years. There's a sense of exhaustion and despair that's growing - almost everyone I've ever worked with in the NHS wants it to work, wants it to be a great thing. We now employ locum psychiatrists who work remotely from abroad at exorbitant cost. Once you lose people, the stress on the rest increases, more people go off sick with stress, the stress on the rest increases, more people leave and at some point, the service implodes and collapses.
All by design ..they dod the same to British rail . ...the privatisation of the NHS will not be allowed to pass quietly ..i see a general strike
Unarguably anyone who has worked hard to make sure they achieve a qualification and then continue that on by saving and changing lives each day deserves the best possible pay. I think this is a wider issue than just money though, look at the fall in the overall quality of life here in the UK we’ve experienced.
It’s astounding how down right miserable it is right now and there isn’t a single political party that is going to change that because we have created a culture and economy that only works for the VERY richest in our society.
There 100% needs to be a redistribution of wealth that transpires in the western world over the next decade otherwise imagine how bad it will be otherwise when it’s this bad now!
It’s not just doctors…
I'm doctor, and i love Australia. So Australia I'm coming soon 🔜
No Indian Dr should come to work in NHS UK under the illusion of training if you and your family want to live respected productive life.Please leave now to India to work in world class hospitals all over India.
Restore the doctors pay to where it would have been without austerity. Also nationalise the private sector, incorporate it into the NHS.
Pay hike is not going to help. Pay them for per job they do. They will touting for patients.
The private sector has propped up the NHS in recent years with a great service. I was fortunate to have the choice of private sector consultants on the NHS.
@@cass6885😂😂😂😂
I'm amazed all U.K. nurses and doctors haven't fled already.
I live in the U.S. an I know from personal family experience that a U.S. nurse makes at least 3x what a U.K. one does, right from graduation.
(Might be a California thing as we have nurses that commute in weekly from Florida to pick up the bigger CA paychecks!)
Even doctors can't survive in this country ,imagine being a minimum wage labor 🙄
Missing the point somewhat aren’t you
Yep my younger cousin left for Australia 2 years ago as soon as he finished his junior Dr. Shift(3 years i think) looks awesome, lifestyle, sunshine and considerably better pay
Until our government recognises that it is primarily doctors that our NHS relies on to serve us, then all we end up with is a second rate two tier system which we have today.
Doctors first and foremost, not managers…
Using the private sector to treat NHS patients is so asinine. It is the SAME labour pool. You either invest in improving the NHS structurally to retain and train staff, or don't. There is no back up.
Im a consultant surgeon. I totally dont blame the youngsters. Go for it!
Can I just ask.... where is Wes Streeting going to get the doctors & nurses to staff private hospitals? There aren't enough medics to staff the NHS, so were is he going to get the staff from? It seems no one is asking this. Is it like the Nightingale Hospitals.... they prepared the buildings, but no one to staff them.
Wes Streeting needs to be challenged on his rehetric of continuing using the private sector.
Funny how Streeting has never mentioned the over 100k vacancies that need filling in the NHS, instead he pushes for more privatisation
@@thereselite Absolutely💯 correct.
Wes Streeting would be a disaster as Health Minister. Its the use of the Private Sector that
has depleted the NHS of staff. Look at Dentistry. Virtually impossible to be treated by an NHS Dentist.
If you read the medical trade press, locums are complaining that they can't find work. There is clearly plenty of doctors in the UK.
@@eliakimjosephsophia4542 if you work in the NHS, you know that’s because they’re cutting down on the use of locum staff, and piling extra pressure on permanent staff and NHS own staff bank. It’s very dangerous, what is going on.
And it's a government driven requirement to reduce the use of agency staff across the board because of course it costs more as you're paying the agency as well as the staff. So we have caps that prevent trusts from employing more locums. It also depends where you are. My local mental health trusts can't get UK psychiatrists. We employ at least one who works remotely from abroad. Need I say more about the insanity of this situation? And we can't discharge people because there's no social support so then we have to use out of area beds in private hospitals for new admissions and guess what, that cost also comes out of NHS funds and trusts also get slated for it. No sign of additional funding for social care as local councils go bankrupt and so do social care firms...
Just like with the Ruanda final solution, couldn't the organize flights to France, Spain, Holland, Germany to get urgent treatment in the excellent European Health Services Brits voluntarily decided to do without.
Colchester hospital planning to outsource porters, food and cleaners to private sector. So porters etc will no longer be on NHS banding, no NHS pension etc etc. Proposing cleaners serve patients food etc etc. Got to fight this privatisation!
Speaking to a Dane last week, they are losing medical staff to Norway because they pay more. They now import more people from abroad. Tbey were saying service and standards are declining.
Other countries are struggling, German doctors have been on strike, Spain hasnt enough doctors. It isn't just the UK
I don't think the first caller realises... we do overtime almost everyday but the working culture is that we aren't paid for it at all, let alone get it tax free.
This is an example of something attracting us to countries like AUS, there it is custom to leave when your shift finishes, or you will be paid properly and on time for your extra hours.
It's a sad state of affairs when doctors have to do overtime because there is a shortage of doctors. Doctors are not machines, you need proper breaks or you will breakdown. I am sure you have great joy when you give a patiant the all clear, but the times when you have to say sorry must be a heartbreaker. It makes me sad reading some of the comments here so I hope this simple thanks makes up for those.
@edwardbernthal160. The public haven't really got a clue how much work is done for free in the NHS. Most GPs I know work "part time" to allow them to cope with the volume of work generated, which far exceeds what can reasonably be achieves within paid hours. So they take a pay cut and do paperwork in their own time.
For example: GPs work sessions ie a morning or pm clinic. Each clinic generates work (letters, referrals etc) that take longer than time allocated to the session. Alongside this they have to check blood results, reply to queries, sign prescriptions, or reissue prescriptions due to pharmacy shortages (thanks Brexit). So a "half day" of work frequently takes until 3-4pm. The afternoon clinic starts at 2pm. So many GPs work 4-6 sessions and come in on days off or work over their hours to get paperwork done, effectively for free. And the Daily Mail has the gall to blame part time GPs for failures in Primary care. My wife works 4 sessions a week which take her from 9-4 4 days a week (with odd days doing letters at home) and takes home £2600 a month. UK GPs see double the numbers of patients as European/Aus/NZ GPs in a day. She has a masters, PhD, medical degree and 14 years experience. Why did we bother?
There is many a country in the world with a lack of doctors, that would love to accomodate trained and experienced doctors from the UK. They will all see it as a benefit.
I live in Qatar. Tax free salary. Traditional families. No toxic tabloids. Usurious bankers are not free to run wild in society.
THIS HAS ALL WAYS BEEN LIKE THIS SINCE THE 80S
Correct. Coincidentally from the time Maggie took over and greed became our factor into everything. Shared humanity, community and compassion have been playing catch up.
Cant blame them. This country is finished.
Change all NHS administration to senior nurses and pay doctors and nurses what they want
Job dissatisfaction is perfuse malaise.
I wonder if NHS salaries and Arts Council funding are symptoms of post-Brexit economy.
The answer is easy for my family.......I'm moving to France and working from home.
I've just spent over 2 years as a patient in the magnificent Peter MacCallums Cancer Centre in Melbourne.
I was shocked at just how many Doctors, nurses & other staff they had from the UK.
I always chat very happily with anyone with an accent & must say that overwhelmingly the UK people said the main reason they left the UK was of a financial one.
Radical structural reform is needed to save the NHS. Let’s try our best to keep private health care to a minimum in this country!!!
You're very welcome in The Netherlands! ;)
This is nothing new. It's been happening for a while now. A lot of my Doc friends have left and loving it.
It could be the final nail in the coffin for the nhs.
And it’s exactly what the tories wanted to massively reform the health system in this country.
We will possibly have no choice.
I really hope that this destroys the Tory party and any other party that harbours Tory people like reform for example.
Don’t scapegoat Brexit for doctors decision to leave the United Kingdom.
Just like the American Dream, the British Dream or rather the English Dream has also turned into a nightmare.
The word revenue should never be used with health care. To produce money is at odds with producing health.
Use the private sector short term, but the NHS should dictate the price paid to the private sector to be less than the cost for NHS to provide it itself - after all, we are told that the private sector is more efficient.
The private sector is more efficient, I've seen two private doctors on the NHS. During lockdowns, that private hospital was fully booked with NHS patients for MRI's etc.
The hospital I work for in the states had already hired three British doctors. They are definitely enjoying their new found wealth in America.
Yes, because we had imbeciles who believed the propaganda that austerity was necessary for everyone's wellbeing. Now the NHS has been deliberately destroyed to make way for private healthcare that''ll certainly tear apart what's left of the British middle class
In Finland a doctor makes 10-20k €/month
Rent here is under 1000/month.
You coud work half time and live like a king.
I'm a nurse and I make over 4k and live very comftably. Everything cheaper here.
You are welcome to Finland
Also a nurse in Finland. My classmate moved to London. Wants to come back for various NHS related reasons!
Interesting, though I would imagine one major issue for British healthcare professionals is the language. Brits are notoriously bad at picking up other languages and Finnish isn't even one on the usual radar, and I believe it is a difficult language even for other Scandinavians to learn (let alone far less linguistically gifted Brits!)
Or can they practice using English as a medium?
@@user-td9hp6li5h I work with doctors and nurses who don't speak finnish. But propably officially a doctor has to be able to speak finnish at least in the public health care. But they just don't. That is just the reality we live in. Sometimes nurses can be translaters if some old patient can not undestand english.
I explain things in finnish and then in english if necessary. The problem is that some of the nurses can't understand finnish or english. But they can be trainees or somehting while learning.
We are now used to workers who don't speak finnish in every job here because our language is so small. Like with customer service employees I start with finnish and then move to english when needed.
@@mattilahde5220 That's very helpful to know thank you.
I had assumed it would be impossible to practice without speaking the language (in the UK, if you don't speak English to a certain standard, you will not get anywhere in terms of being able to work as a doctor or nurse).
I don't know how I would feel about it though, being unable to unable to speak the language the majority speaks. I suppose people find ways though, as for instance anyone in MSF has to do working abroad.
@@user-td9hp6li5h I have considered moving to Norway. I can speak a little swedish. Norwegian is close to swedish. I coud propably get started working there without speaking their language. I coud learn in time. In the beginning I coud have limited responsibilities.