Too Much Structure? Front End Structure & Packaging | Rivian R1T Teardown
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2022
- Jordan and Kevin discuss Rivian's Front End Structure & Packaging.
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Outro:
Music from RUclips Audio Library [Aka YAL]
Music provided by RFM: • Video
#Rivian #R1T #ElectricTruck 
Развлечения
These videos are 1000x times more useful as reviews than yet another auto journalist complaining about hard plastic and unresponsive touch screens.
lol.. not all auto journalists are mechanical engineers, with tons of automotive design experience, and many man hours working at legacy OEM's nor have the availability/crew to have a total tear down of a vehicle..
Not for that many. Most people only want to know what directly affects their daily usage. Sure, some weight matters, but not that much comparative to what you touch so many times a day.
Hmmm. I don’t really agree with some of that. For one, an unresponsive touch screen is a deal breaker for me.
To be fair both those things are critical user interfaces and should be sorted on such an expensive vehicle.
Indeed. But I fall into the camp that thinks trying to morph cars/trucks into entertainment centers is a very bad mistake. There's too much love being expressed for the leading edge of hi-tech, too much focus on turning the vehicle into a rolling computer game, and not so much paid to how best to support the reality of a human driver controlling a multi-ton conveyance.
Just give me some basic knobs that I can turn without needing to take my eyes off the road and I'm a happy guy. All of that sort of functionality getting buried underneath multiple touchscreens, requiring you to take your eyes off the road to affect a simple volume change or adjust the AC (for instance), are nonsensical developments to me. And dangerous to boot.
I file it under the general category of "What in the hell are they thinking?"
John~
American Net'Zen
One of the most informative episodes I've seen. Well done, well spoken.
Rivian certainly gave plenty of opportunity to discuss what is happening within a vehicle during varying collision events. Got to give them props for cueing all these talking points.
Thanks Gabriel
I think that about nearly every episode. lol
Especially at the 8:40 mark the front end. This might make sense for pedestrian and suicidal animal impacts such as deer.🙃
Thanks Kevin and Jordan for your insight and detailed discussion of the front end structure and design elements. Will be tuning in for all your future videos.
Awesome, thank you!
i duno about that that its hard getting a strait answer with the amount of hedge betting going on
Ha...ok boys tell us what you really feel. Kid gloves compared to Sandy. But, enjoyed.
600 bolts on front alone. Sandy faints again.
Sometimes not excruciatingly de-contenting a design is nice from the standpoint of someone who has to work on the product. Parts that unbolt instead of having to pry apart and infuriatingly break off integrated fasteners and standoffs is something I’d pay a little more for and accept the minor mass penalty to have. This is especially true of integrated plastic parts which have had five or ten service years to become embrittled.
I saw this on my ‘05 Tacoma where Toyota cheaped-up many of added on brackets, etc. I had to replace the rear flexible brake lines and the brackets had turned to powder and crumbled in my hand. The replacement brackets were a lot heavier, more robust and reshaped with better geometry.
Engineering isn’t strictly all about manufacturability, but also about giving the customer a quality, long lived, and safe product.
Agreed. When they said X and Y was bolted on instead of clipped, I thought "Good. Less plastic clipping that breaks off to never work again."
@@ZenEndurance ĺ9
@@ZenEndurance I understand the way Munro looks at it: they are looking to de-content where possible so that manufacturers have the best possible profit margin and purchasers have the lowest price… However there is more to the equation. Maintenance costs matter. The dealer network is responsible for repairs and a difficult and/or time-consuming to repair product increases in-warranty costs to the manufacturer and out-of-warranty expenses for the purchaser. While the added costs of service may be passed on, those costs have an impact on a product’s reputation and hence its marketability. Some end-users prefer to perform their own maintenance, and a more easily serviced product again improves its market appeal. John Deere is learning about these matters.
Well said, I was thinking the same when I saw all of those beautiful bolts. Definitely increased my opinion of Rivian as a capable manufacturer. I have a very hard time agreeing with the mindset of plastic/integrated fasteners, the serviceability and longevity of such designs is terrible compared to the good old nut and bolt.
Exceptionally good presentation. Jordan and Kevin are very articulate and a pleasure to watch.
THANKS TO JORDAN AND KEVIN…FOR SHARING THIS 👍😎😍😍😍
Our pleasure!
For a 1st effort, this is impressive. Looks over built, but overly complex too.Makes me appreciate all the effort they had to put into this. Let the production hell get sorted out quickly and successfully!
not Really, RIVIAN is already more than a decade old design, they originally were going to build a Roadster. it was scrapped.
the R1T is Already using outdated technology, is too heavy, too many fastener, and brackets.
Looking at that front end and interior manufacturing complexity, I assume it takes a hell lot of both hard & smart work to overcome the Production Hell and ramp up the vehicle production at scale. Which I highly doubt Rivian would not achieve this for another couple of years.
Makes manufacturing costs to high…this is what separates the big manufacturers from these craft made manufacturers…difficult to produce numbers and actually make money
Still it is not all negative. Clearly objective was to create a durable and quality product. When I hear “snapon” I think of alle the connectors that broke off on disassembly on 4-5 year old cars I worked on! I prefer quality over cost savings!
@@zippodk Well it is impacting their ability to ramp, but since its their first real go at the thing I absolutely can't be mad at it.
Tesla's roadster was overly complex in all the wrong ways, and is the only vehicle Tesla made where they were losing money on the sales. and the M3 ramp was really the first time where Tesla was really trying to get good at this "production" thing. It took them a bit but now they are leaders in production.
Now the issue I see is that the complexity of the production seems built into the design of the R1T, similar to the complexity mandated by the design of the roadster way back then. The solution would be a deep rethinking of the entire internal structure, and I just fear Rivian may not be in the right state for it. They are trying to pump the numbers of the current model and having massive issues, like the M3, however Tesla's structure of production allowed for major innovation and changes to the design without stopping the ramp, and IDK if Rivian has a similar structure. If they do not then the only way to pivot as fast as they need to would be to stop the ramp, and that may NOT please investors as they would only see the "guarantee of loss in the short term" since its the only metric they care about.
Well done Munro!
Great video, very detailed and visual. Really appreciate what you are doing as a team. Please keep up
Much appreciated!
It’s solidly built. Not built down to a least cost. There was a time when that would be said to be ‘good’.
If it costs more to build than it sells for, and it bankrupts the company - you can see the problem.
@@jamesfynnhere6983
They could start by dumping the battery pack I suppose :-)🤣
Nice engineering analysis with in-depth engineering and production comments.
Sandy, you have hired a smart bunch of engineers. You should be proud, sir.
Personally, I like the strategy of having redundant systems overlapping in a first gen vehicle; where they can optimize efficiency in future generations and dial in the profit margin. As opposed to building a first gen car that is under engineered on the first go, and it needing to be beefed up in later iterations. It's better for the customer to get an overbuilt truck that's a little heavy, rather than vise versa. I think it's a hell of a truck and Rivian is here to stay as a company.
I like the parts that are over engineered. It makes sense for an off road vehicle. My only worry is that they may not be making enough money to survive. The wait time for new trucks is over a year, but I don't think they'll be around to deliver on their orders.
@@bogususer2595 meh.. I think they are fine. These trucks are $80k. lol.. They're making plenty of profit. Just remember, they are just now getting them out the door; production will ramp up substantially in that first year, as they iron out all the problems on the assembly line. The wait time is a year because they took so many pre-orders. it's a year wait because it has such high demand, and remember, they are also making 100k vans for Amazon too.. and also making the R1-S (suv version). So they are busy busy. I ca tell by the way they engineered the truck to be higher quality rather than cutting corners everywhere- that they are here to stay and will likely end up raising prices because their demand is just going to keep going up. It's not just a plain ol' electric truck, it's built like a Ford Raptor underneath with those long control arms, and has the torque and power of an F350. On it's outer appearance, it seems like it would be delicate and you wouldn't want to take it off road. But underneath, it's built more like a Pre-Runner. I was super surprised and impressed to see that. They aren't very good at advertising this. They need to get this thing in a Baja1000 race right away and show off what it can actually do-- because people don't even know-- they think it's just a delicate iPhone type company, but this thing is much more than that by design. I don't think they're going anywhere. Maybe they'll have to make a more basic version to lower the price and get more sales later-- but for now, they can't even keep up with the orders; like you said, it's a year wait time.
@@jalopy2472 By that logic, we shouldn't even allow Semi/ Tractor trailers on the roads at all.. I drive an F350, and it's about 7k lbs also.. Stop thinking of this thing as a "sedan"-- it's a full sized powerhouse, superduty level truck.
@@calholli Does your F350 have a 4-1/2 ft bed? Or load capacity, Rivian 1800 lbs vs F-350 at 2900 to 6200 lbs. F-350 is definitely work truck class, not an adventure vehicle for the rich.
@@royh6526 9ft flatbed.. Mine has 6k payload, like 14k towing... Rivina has like 11k towing-- so not that far off. So yes, the rivian springs are more for comfort than payload. But as for the Weight of the truck, and the power of the drive train... it's a beast... You say it's a little "adventure vehicle" as if it's just another Toyota Tacoma or something.. It's NOT. It's very heavy and will feel like a superduty truck as you're driving it around and going over obstacles. You can't fake gravity, and you can't hide it.
As a structural engineer this is the ultimate 'belt and braces' design. Definitely the vehicle to buy if you want real off road capability.
Its overengineered and a bit of a mess by the looks of it. Given the obvious over complexity, they must be losing a fortune on each one was my initial thought.
Rivian can benefit from a LEAN design review, and Clean Sheet approach.
@@markplott4820 Having worked a Jaguar Land Rover, please remember Rivian is NOT a car.... it is an off-road vehicle with potentially a long life. Tesla is a car....
@@steverichmond7142 - CYBERTRUCK .......wait till they get a load of me......
@@markplott4820 It is too big for me to consider, but it looks solid.
Seeing that gusset plate welded on the backside of the bumper rebar in case the rebar is bent all the way back to the other part of it self just blows me away. I’ve been a master tech for years and seeing this kind of crash engineering just makes me scratch my head. Also makes me laugh when I think about all the people that will put bumper guards and winch bumper mount things on as soon as they buy one of these negating almost all of the work that Riven put into
@@adamgreen911 (allegedly)
@@adamgreen911 An official on-the-record statement that it's cancelled?
@@adamgreen911 Yeah, I don't find "indefinitely postponed" at all hard to believe, but that's a little different from "never happening." We know they designed for it and there is a test mule with a winch roaming around, so hopefully it's just a matter of time until they get some breathing room on the production ramp and can take another look. I'm certainly not holding my breath, but I think there's room for some optimism.
@@adamgreen911 Tesla's demand is sky high. At this point they are forced to predict cost to produce a year ahead, and so given inflation, the increased prices reflect inflation and also serve to dampen demand. An addition benefit is that Tesla gets to keep the profit, rather than it going to scalpers. Your comment about a $50k profit points out the problem. Supply/demand determines price to a very large degree. Hopefully we will see some reductions as inflation subsides. I would say that Tesla is managing the whims and turnabouts of the current economic climate well.
Agree with the Munro team, Rivian should adopt the hood access design similar to Ford Lightning to allow easy access for people of all sizes.
in the past I was put on projects to design complex subassemblies that I had no experience with that had short lead times and were likely going to change later on in the process. I found the safest thing to do to ensure you have a working product ready in some is to make everything out of a large number of simple easy to fabricate parts. Without much experence you are garenteed to have problems with parts fitting, constant design changes, improvements ect and changing a single piece of sheet metal cut on a laser or punch press is much less disastrous than a large deep drawing die or casting or a injection molded piece. On one project we started manufacturing parts before the entire product was designed, We just had a bolt pattern that some future part was going to bolt into when we got around to designing it. it is not an efficient approach but it will often get the job done when experience and time are in short supply, you can allways consolidate and optimize the parts in later iterations.
They have been working on BEVs since 2009 and this one since 2017...
Rivian was founded 2009, that's a lot of time to work on this, their first vehicle.
@@waynerussell6401 2017 was 5 years ago, that is the same amount of time major automakers spend developing cars with plenty of existing parts. making a car from scratch when there is no prior manufacuting experence within the organization is a huge challenge.
@@mbox314 The strength of a startup is that it is not a conventional OEM restricted by all the culture that entails. Manufacturing is now LEAN, AGILE and SCRUM based with DSM oversight. That is Tesla's MOAT that guarantees its success. Rivian and other startups will not succeed if they ignore this. The Ford MachE tiny team demonstrates how quickly a scratch built BEV can be made, even with much out of the parts bin and from suppliers, design time was four months vs two years standard Ford time.
Kevin and Jordan always do a great job with this stuff. Their analysis of the convergence of chaotic development and a rapid launch is insightful. Product development is difficult, and as your system complexity grows, methods of program management and development "best practices" (think of a established SOP) become even more important. This is where established auto manufacturers should excel, and what they should leverage in their EV programs- especially from a fresh platform development program (not a ICE platform conversion).
Very good video, I learned a lot
Glad it was helpful!
A 'not to be missed" episode for Rivian engineers if only to them thinking about getting that weight down. As their first vehicle they threw the kitchen sink and refinement will come with time but watching this video you can't help but think "hmm, what else can go'.
Rivian can't innovate, they don't use production cells or AGILE teams like TESLA.
Tesla changes it's production process every 24H. it makes 1000 changes every month.
Thank you!!
You're welcome!
Wonderful video and content as usual. Thanks for another great video!!
Love the in depth engineering aspect of these videos. Thanks so much!
Great video guys. Really enjoyed it.
Thanks Eric
It sounds like what you were describing as over engineering is what gives this such a sturdy structure. All the feedback from drivers comparing this to a typical body on frame truck is it has little to no body roll. Going back to a typical Ford pickup feels very shaky and unsteady, especially in off-road applications. I suspect they wanted to build a sturdy vehicle first and then streamline down the road. Personally I appreciate them being safe and saving weight later.
'We're a little embarrassed to ask you to please subscribe so we'll blame Cory *every single time*' lol.
Looking at that front end & interior manufacturing complexity, I assume it takes a hell lot of both hard & smart work to overcome the Production Hell and ramp up the vehicle production at scale. Which I highly doubt Rivian would not achieve this for another couple of years.
In the original Tesla model 3, the guy responsible for the rear underbody seemed to be seriously out of his depth. In this whole structure, individually, Rivian seem to have some great engineering talent, but very little overall direction. It looks to be overbuilt, overly complex, and hard to assemble. It feels like there was little co-ordination going on early on. Having said that, the truck has 15% less battery than the HUMMER, but 35% less weight. (5870 vs 9046) What the hell will they find when Munro get to tear one of those apart? OTOH, I think the HUMMER will be easier and cheaper to build. Really curious to see how the Cybertruck is built. The "Exoskeleton" concept has a lot of promise in theory, but it won't truly be an exoskeleton. Actually assembling and co-coordinating all the various aspects is going to require some interesting, but possibly difficult compromises. I do think Tesla's ability in group thinking is likely to be more successful at integrating everything in efficient ways.
Just like Tesla ten years ago, Rivian has a lot of efficiency they can integrate into their manufacturing. Seeing just this gives one a good idea as to why Rivian's production numbers are so low. That said, Rivian spent a decade designing this truck. You'd think they would have had a more efficient manufacturable design.
While I agree with you, I think the 10 year design is why the car is not very efficient. They should have built some sooner, then iterated on their design to improve efficiency. While the R1T is a great truck, clearly Rivian is not following Tesla's DNA, even when they copy their features.
@@tstan6827 Or are they following Tesla's DNA, whether Rivian wants to or not. lol Meaning, their first truck has a lot of construction methods that will make it more complicated to mass produce, and now that Rivian is finally opening up production, they will find this out and start streamlining the actual production.
I think part of this lack of integration is due to the fact that Rivian is spread out across so many different sites. From the Wikipedia article: "Rivian is based in Irvine, California, with its manufacturing plant in Normal, Illinois, and other facilities in Palo Alto, California; Carson, California; Plymouth, Michigan; Vancouver, British Columbia; Wittmann, Arizona; and Woking, England." It doesn't look like many of the engineers are anywhere near the manufacturing line in Normal, Illinois.
I think the difference between Rivian now and Tesla 10 years ago, is Tesla was leaving a lot to be desired when it came to structural quality, whereas Rivian seems to be overbuilding. While this is obviously extremely costly for Rivian and they need to get those costs down if they want to survive long term, from a consumer standpoint, I think it’s awesome. Id much rather have an “overbuilt” vehicle than an under-built one.
@@jason91notch What was wrong with Telsa's structural quality? My understanding is that they always did really well in crash test. The quality issues normally involved the interior and exterior body panels, not their structure.
Rivian: "I'm sorry Mr. Munro, your warranty has been voided".
I own an R1-T and found your video informative and helpful to know about some of the details of how it’s built. I would agree that molding in some of those components instead of using heavy bolts would make truck lighter and more cost effective.
Since I started watching your explanations I really look at car frames and bodies with different eyes. Thx a lot for your teaching efforts.
Very interesting. Particularly the insights on the crash protection aspects of the design. Amazing the engineering that's gone into these design decisions. Thanks for enlightening the non-engineer viewer.
Very informative! Love the comparisons with the lightning
Munro Live typically encourages "a gram/ day weight savings per engineer" however for Rivian perhaps "a lb/ day weight savings per engineer" is encouraged. Competition drives innovation; come on Rivian! Wishing nothing but success, but many hurdles are on the horizon.
I could listen to Jordan talk about cars all day, every day. Incredible knowledge.
I continue to be impressed by the camera work. You should introduce the camera-slinger some time.
Great video.
Thanks for the details.
Two knowledgeable and well spoken engineers. Kudos!
Awesome content and analysis! Thanks for sharing
Great channel. Smart, well spoken dudes.
Love the insight provided,
Amazingly informative. I'll never look at my Rivian the same way again.
Another A side track for the hopefully long playing record called the R1T.
An FEA of the front quarter impact glance would be a joy to see but perhaps would be too much to produce for free.
Looking good Kevin and Jorden.
Nicely done! Very informative. Looks completely over engineered. They definitely need a Munro strategy to their design.
Bloody good guys !! Nicely done ‼️ and that
Really Well Done - Thanks
Good work men. I follow the conclusion being what Munro does so well .
I learn so much from this guys.
Yes! Good job B-Team!!! 😉
Thanks!
There's no "B-Team" at Munro & Associates. It's just "the team", right? Great, in-depth analysis,... as usual. Thanks!
Thanks John
Still part of the A team in my opinion.
Thanks!
Realizing this content is intended to be heavily oriented for hardcore auto-engineering enthusiasts, and appreciation for that vs. "influencer" analysis, which is flaky - it would be helpful if the commentary could be compartmentalized into 2 buckets. 1 - Safety, what engineering design components are good/bad. 2 - What engineering/design components are less evolved/optimized for cost of build or efficiency purposes.
Love the guys for sure - they're the real deal and wicked smart.
Im an EV fan.
But what finally sunk in while watchingis that the young men are in street clothes...
No grease, no black fingernails, no red shop rags hanging out of the pocket of some seriously, well oiled coveralls...
Please describe the smell of your garage since I can't be there.
My first roll around toy was a steel wheeled slider at my Grandad garage in tiny town Oklahoma.
What a new world our young 'mechanics' are headed for.
Amazing.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge gents!
Sandy… smart guys! Thank you. But all of you are being nice to Rivian. Sure, Rivian’s first vehicle effort, is actually 10 years in the making, but there is so much room for improvement and manufacturing simplification. Very expensive and slow production.
Really great analysis and commentary, love this stuff on the R1T’s especially as I’m still anticipating the arrival of mine. I do think Ford was forced to make the Frunk opening as they did due to the lift over height on an F150 would’ve been impossible for most normal people . But I also want to see the crash testing versus Ford versus Rivian with that huge opening at the front I want to see how they overcame that. If you look at any great sports cars, openings in the body are very small to keep the rigidity and strength of the vehicle intact. whenever you place a huge opening like Ford has done I just wonder how they have added strength back into the hood?
They don't need to. The bumper takes those crash forces and the hood, like on any car, simply folds in a forward collision. Most truck hoods barely even have front vertical structure; it's mostly plastic grille.
Or if
Awesome video boys! You gentlemen are well-spoken. I could listing to you all day talk about engineering. :)
Thanks
8:45 I think he meant "Finite Element Analysis" instead of "Failure Effect Analysis".
If they had under designed everyone would be giving them crap and it could have brought about major issues. It's an entirely new platform top to bottom. Even the suspension is radically different to include how long the arms are and how far they reach into the center-line. Rivian took precautions out of the gate and I'm glad they did. Takes some real cahonas to not have produced anything like this and then act like "I could have done better". The comments section is just a bunch of arm chair quarterbacking.
Jordan and Kevin, Now I know where to mount my front end winch! Thank you.
Jordan and Kevin - excellent front structural analyses! Thank you! Makes me appreciate the "Mega Power Frunk".
Glad you enjoyed it!
until the F150 one break and locks so you can't open it.
Very Nicely Presented and very informative/educational, My guess since this is their very first, they might have decided to go overkill, also looking ahead with crash tests. For their very first they have done very well and making deliveries. I hope they succeed and continue to improve
Good analysis from both and very interesting approach/take on Rivians part on body on frame but hard fixed which doesn't seem efficient or cost effective vs a full on uni body. To the point in the frunk, I can see Rivian incorporating a similar take from the R1S rear half tailgate to the front of the R1T which will keep the hood and still provide similar crash performance they are looking for, just a thought.
Kudos to Rivian, they delivered an exceptional product which will only get better with optimization. Great videos keep them up!
9 mins. in and I like how these guys talk. no bashing since we don't know the details why Rivian design the truck in such a way but feels like Rivian wanted to put as much features as they can disregarding margins, volume production, etc. they are first with four wheel motors and rear wheel steering.
Just got to test drive one on Saturday and my first thought was that it was way overbuilt and his video confirms that. Hopefully they rework some of this as reducing weight would also help with range. Awesome trucks!
Holy Sugar Coat Bat Man!
That's right Boy Wonder, don't want to piss-off the vehicle donor.
These vids with these 2, are peak MUNRO.
5:47 How about they are making a modular chassis and the extra bits bolted on represent the vehicle manifestation. So when building the R1S the extra bolted on bits change out to make that manifestation. They can make a variety of vehicles with a common frame.
Had a similar thought. It's a give and take with modular design philosophy. It can be a pro and con. Main con usually is compromise on design efficiency and design creep. Where you leave so many "good" ideas on the table, you get analysis paralysis. But it would have been really interesting to see a tandem teardown of R1T and R1S, if they really did stick with a modular design philosophy(from crrent sneak peaks at R1S, a lot of front end design has been directly carried/copied over from R1T). Does Rivian have other design intentions for R1S skateboard?
like these two guys, they did an excellent job
Great start to this tear down. I see HUGE complexity and expense in just this first major part of the disassembly- it worries me and convinces me that they will be very lucky to be able to simplify and reduce costs to the point that they will survive. If it’s too complex, too expensive and difficult to build, it’s just not going to make economic sense unless they’re very small volume and high cost.
That high front frunk access is one of the things I really don’t like at all.
Great analysis, thanks guys! It seems like Rivian is off to a great start. If it's good on their first attempt, I can only imagine how well they'll improve in 2nd, 3rd, etc. executions.
Too complex and too expensive. Nice care, but the F-150 will nail them in sales and margins.
Great talk and insights. I would love to see a similar tear down on the Ineos Grenadier, with a discussion on the newly announced electric variant
Jordan, I hope you can make a note of it and let us know if this thing has the off-road package and if you think it’s necessary for any added benefit of rigidity or strength or if it’s just unnecessary added weight. Thank you
Gen seconds in...
My first thought....
Lots of fasteners.
Given that Sandy now owns one, I can’t wait to see his reaction to the tear down! Great job on this video, especially the deep dive on how they engineered the small overlap protection. I agree that the frunk design, although huge, is not as practical as the Ford Lightning. Even the upcoming Silverado EV mimics the Ford. It will most likely be quite some time before Rivian can do a Gen 2 update to the R1T/S. Looking forward to the next Rivian tear down video.
Sandy and his wife like the R1T truck , but not the Charging.
the lightning drain weights it all up... in the frunk...
That is if they'll exist long enough for a gen2
Well said m j. I doubt if Sandy will be too surprised. A lot can be seen underbody.
@@Roguescienceguy let's hope they have enough Halo Effect from the buzz generated and the unique capabilities, features, and durability (yet to be entirely proven) grant them enough of a monetary buffer to move to the next phase. It would be great to see another Electric (American) Vehicle Manufacturer Succeed.
Very great discussion. The front end looks extremely rugged and strong.
Can't wait to see you guys tearing the Motor down.
This is so cool!
The tall lift over height of the Rivian frunk is understandable when you step back and look at the history of the Rivian's development. Back in 2017/18, when the Rivian was revealed with its iconic vertical headlights and blunt front end, it stood in pragmatic defiance of the low, sleek, aerodynamic front end of a Tesla. With a vision that many EV owners would be coveting practicality and utility, Rivian committed to an aesthetic that became hard to back away from once the details of using a frunk in a large vehicle revealed themselves. (Lift over height was a non-issue with a low slung Tesla.) It only became a known issue on larger, utilitarian vehicles. At this point, it is probably not easy to cut down the front of the Rivian to lower the lift over height without substantially affecting the overall aesthetic.
They just need to redesign the front opening it shouldn't be hard for the engineers. They can still keep the iconic look , and high height. They have a few options to explore , but they should get going on it straightaway. It's not a hard fix at all really for smart engineers.
Conceptually, it wouldn't be hard to have the center part of the light bar attach to the hood instead of the fixed structure ... but it changes the structure underneath. Doable, yes, but it's redesign, and that's time and money, and Rivian has already used up plenty of both getting to market.
Well, I'd say you just handed Rivian a boatload of FREE engineering efficiencies advice for a new company starting out. You can bet the Rivian guys are taking notes on this series. Excellent video packed with so much description that Any caveman can understand...
yes this is their first go and it looks great for first run
Looking at the whole front structure says "tough" to me. The great reviews this vehicle gets when climbing over rocks and logs is no doubt attributable to this overbuilt front structure.
I think people got so used to Made in China stuff that anything built solid like this looks odd.
The guys are doing there best to be polite to the Rivian engineers , kudos for that. Things are rarely black and white , short time frames and moving goalposts can make a engineers job far from straightforward. On the overbuild , that's the least of the problems , as I see it. It's a truck after all , and trucks can take a hell of a beating over time, things need to be secure and strong to still be around in 20 years time. The frunk opening is a catastrophy, plain and simple , there is no excuse for that . Imagine trying to load a small generator into the frunk it's just not possible in any normal way. Rivian should have a design team working on that around the clock , to get finished and onto new builds as quick as possible.
I'm jealous of the F150 frunk for sure, but it's worth noting that the Rivian frunk is enough smaller that you probably aren't putting generators/fridges/etc in the first place. We've had ours for about a month and almost immediately declared the frunk the place for grocery bags, soft luggage, carry ons, backpacks, suitcases, etc. It holds an almost unbelievable amount of that stuff, but given the irregular shape (and especially the floor) it's not a great place for large, rigid loads. (I'm also nervous putting large, rigid loads in the frunk in general - it's supposed to be a crumple zone.) There may also be waterproofing advantages to the R1T design given the factor water fording rating. I don't mean to be an apologist - I'm jealous of the F150 frunk - but I think "catastrophe" is being overly dramatic. There's a bed for your generator. And if I had to pick between the gear tunnel and the F150 frunk, I'd pick the gear tunnel.
No need for a generator. Rivian has power outlets.
Overbuild doesn't necessarily mean it will last longer or hold up better. That's dependent on your least overbuilt member. I doubt everything is overbuilt to the same extent. What it is good for is getting a design out the door. You don't need to be nearly as careful with your design and your fea models if you have a big factor of safety.
@@kylealden Congrats on owning a Rivian , you make some good points , not to be beating down on the Rivian too much , there is alot I like about it , especially the styling , the famous gear tunnel , and the compact overall size . The frunk may not be perfect but at least its massive in size which is a way lot better than some ev's. Enjoy your cool truck.
The frunk on the Rivian is designed to be an ice chest / cooler so having the front be full height allows for that unlike the Ford or others. I also like how I can load with bags and not worry about them falling out when I open the hood. The height issue is not something to be ignored, but like everything in engineering and design it is about compromise.
I can hear the eggshells you two were walking on to avoid using fairly negative words to describe what you saw.
Jordan looking JACKED.
The high front structure allows for the deep fording of water in my opinion.
All of those electrical connections must be watertight.
Rivian has added another $15,000 to cover those costs and redundancies, prices now start @ close to $90,000, i think.,Ford will divest itself of more RVIN Stock.
There is no price given anymore upon reservation
When the body panels come off that's when the fun starts!
Somewhat more complex than my grandfathers 1967 1/2 ton Chevy
Easy to take apart....lets see ya put it back together and it's till works...that proves expertise...
Jordan and Kevin did a fantastic job in explaining this to me. I am no expert but my first impression was a very busy front-end assembly. You guys were extremely generous and gentle with this new vehicle, and rightly so as Rivian has definitely done an excellent job and I am sure will listen to your critique of their vehicle.
THANKS4GIVING
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What a Time to Be Alive! Experienced Engineers Are Explaining Industrial Implementation of Engineering Theories for Free! Thanks a lot, Guys!
Any indication of a HEPA filter?
Well, as you guys said, they got their first vehicle out the door. Going forward, it looks like there are tons of manufacturing cost saving revisions possible over the whole vehicle, both inside and out.
Does on of your videos show the disassembly of the front end? I have a R1S coming in for some work tomorrow and haven't found any info about front end disassembly.
These are interesting times and I soon we will have the Rivian, Ford Lightning and Cybertruck to compare with one another.
I haven't seen every video on this (and tend to skip through longer vids), but is the body steel or aluminum on the Rivian? I assume the Lightning is aluminum considering the combustion F-150s have been aluminum for some time now. Saving 700lbs by using aluminum goes a long way to offset the weight of a battery pack.