The factor I think is huge is glossed over here. The difference between 20mm equivalent and 25mm equivalent. That extra 5mm of “wide” is gigantic and amazingly useful. Rather than a brief mention, this factor needed way more attention. Between the weight difference and the extra width, for me, the pendulum swings toward the 10-25 and makes the price premium worth it.
7 years into shooting, the amount of times I've actually needed or used a 20mm FF equiv focal length throughout the course of things, whether hobby or work, is basically non-existant outside of purely real estate work. In which case 20mm isn't nearly wide enough for real estate - 16-18mm is far more desirable anyway for that.
Like you said in the video, this lens seems targeted at a very specific type of customer. This lens makes sense for me as a hybrid MFT (GH5) shooter because it replaces several of my mft fast primes. It's weather resistant so i can travel and shoot in harsh conditions without having to change out lenses in the field (during a rain storm for example). The AF performance allows me to switch between photos and video on the fly. Instead of carrying several primes in my bag i can now care just this one so the overall weight of my kit bag goes down. Additionally the focus clutch with linear-like control and step-less aperture are huge advantages compared to my older Panasonic fast primes. The relatively high price sucks but worth it for me because of the practical convenience and features. I plan to pick one up early next year.
About C-AF in video, thought I'll put in my 2 cents. I have the GH5, G9 and the Leica 10-25mm. When I first put the lens on, to my surprise C-AF was poor, that is, it didn't even seem to try to pull focus. I then tried the lens on the G9 and the focusing is spot on, no concerns with it at all. Back on the GH5, I tried my 12-35 mk1 and it also didn't attempt to autofocus. After cycling through my Custom modes, I found one mode that allowed continuous autofocus to work very well - both on the 10-25mm and the 12-35mm. Leading me to believe that the 2.5 firmware may have been the issue. Neither my Custom1 or Custom2 modes worked, but my Custom3-2 did (Custom3-1 is VFR).
Please share your settings! I saw a review where 10-25 blows out of water Sigma 18-35 in terms of AF. And since this is truely wide angle lens it is more viable option to me. But I would like to know if this can work reliably with GH5S.
Hi With my GH5 (latest firmware), my 10-25mm makes a little noise when I use AFC in 4k video 30 or 60fps. If I set the AFC setting with speed +5 and sensitivity +3, the noise is louder. Is it normal to get this noise ? Thank you.
What do you mean by "found mode to allow continuous autofocus Custom3-1 is VFR"? Was this set at one of the 8-bit RECORD QUALITY settings? None of the 4K 10-bit settings allow VFR.
I have a sigma 18-35 and a viltrox speed booster. It makes my lumix g7 look like it was a camera that came from heaven with the image quality it gives me. For short films and studio work, it's a must. Plus i can adapt it to my sony a6300. 2 for 1
I have a Sigma Viltrox and GH5. In my opinion is perfect combo. I have used that for 18 months and it is great. Only downside is that 3-4 times camera was stop recording and frozen all menu. To turn down the camera I must had to out the battery. The files were corruppted. Since 2018 I have done many wedings using sigma and gh5, so 3-4 times is not bad. I compared to Leica 15mm and the sigma is a liltlle bit sharper.
Hi Gerald and fellow you tubers. I guess I’m chiming in a bit late for anyone to see this but here’s my experience. I only run 1, single main camera (GH5) and my kit has been put together around the mft system. This Leica 10-25 is simply a godsend. Except for gimbal work! I am putting together a video series of walking people through diy boat refurbishing. The thing is, when I’m done with videoing the work I do on the boats, I need quality pictures of the vessel to post and sell the actual watercraft. This lens does both insanely well and with the shutter angle trick and camera updates it’s a wow of a lens ‘for my needs’
Parfocal does not work by focusing wide then expecting it to be in focus zoomed in. It's the other way around. You zoom in, focus, and then expect the 10 to 25 to be in focus throughout the range.
Dan Lowder Thanks, good to know. That’s what we did with the parfocal ENG cameras, as fast as hell we would zoom in, focus, and the pull out as fast as we could to get the shot.
I think the reason why you dont get it, is that you underplay the wide end by A LOT. 20-50mm full frame is a BIG deal, and arguably the best range you can get for a video lens, you wont feel very compelled for another lens, while the 18-35 can feel tight at times and need a complimenting lens, which doesnt really exist, no ultrawide fast zoom.
Based on the user I guess. I don't underplay the 20mm, because for me, it's not very useful. I don't like anything wider than 24mm. That's just my preference.
@@geraldundone I understand that you have your personal preference, but I think it is a point which is not given sufficient coverage in your video. The fact that the 10-25mm has a 2.5x zoom capability with f1.7 maximum aperture deserves a bit more screen time. Other than this missed point, it is an excellent video. I enjoyed it, very informative.
First of all, I'd like to say that Gerald's videos are among my favorites in terms of content and production quality. So much work goes into these videos and it shows. With that said, I agree with Charlie N...those extra 5mm on the wide end put the 10-25 in a whole other category than the 18-35. To go from 20mm to a "normal" 50mm with stellar image quality through the zoom range is incredible. Next is that de-clicked aperture ring for video. It's so great in quickly changing lighting conditions...don't have to mess around with an ND filter (if max aperture is not needed). Finally, I was getting poor results when pairing the 18-35 with the Viltrox adapter. There are major problems when shooting wide open away from the center of the frame...there was strange ghosting effects, loss of contrast, and it just didn't look right. So, the 10-25 was an easy decision for me despite the high cost.
What impresses me is how well the Sigma 18-35 holds out in comparison to the newer Pany 10-25. The Sigma performed very well overall and maintains its dominance even years after its introduction.
This is one of the best, or the best RUclips channel for BMPCC 4K (& GH5) gear reviews! You always answers all my questions without being too technical or too long. Thanks!!!
10 to 20 mm is an interesting focal range if you like nightscape photography. The Sigma 18-35 with speedbooster reaches, at widest focal, about 13 mm (26 mm equivalent), which is an angle of view way different from the 10 mm (20 mm equivalent) offered by the Panasonic. This is a noticeable difference
Great video Gerald. Just wanted to add my thoughts for those still considering these or similar options. I own both combinations so I have no reason to favor one over the other. With that said, the Sigma/MB combo coughing up 5mm on the wide end puts it at a severe disadvantage to the 10-25. Going from 20mm to 50mm (FF equiv) with a turn of the barrel at 1.7 is what you're paying for if you ask me. Also, the glorious Sigma optics takes a hit for sure with that metabones adapter...the sharpness is fine, but there is a significant drop in contrast compared to the 10-25 (you can see it at 8:25 in the video). It should also be noted that the 10-25 suffers from pretty major distortion at the wide end in RAW photo files and video footage that need to be dealt with when processing. For example, those planning to stick this thing on a BMPCC 4K and expecting straight lines when filming buildings etc. at 10mm will be disappointed. I usually only reach for the Sigma combo when bokeh is paramount and that's about it.
Exactly right ... also the sigma 18-35mm is the most adaptable lens I own. I have used it on many different systems. Needless to say, I will be keeping it. Thank you for producing another thorough, inciteful, and, informative video.
Great review as always, Gerald. Based on your review, I understand your puzzlement about the Panasonic 10-25mm. BUT I'm an event photographer. The Panasonic 10-25mm is a short fast zoom (equivalent to 20-50mm) which is the perfect range for wedding/event receptions. The Sigma 18mm just isn't wide enough. The 10-25mm would allow me to get quick group shots during cocktail hour, dancing shots, the hora, etc. and have the flexibility of the f1.7 aperture when I want to shoot some non-flash available light stuff - even in a cozy, dark-ish venue like a tiny claustrophobic NYC restaurant. Yes, much of this can be done with the Olympus 12-40 f2.8, but it's only f2.8 and not *quite* wide enough for when the wedding crowd gets a little crazy on the dance floor. It's nice to hear that the continuous AF is good for stills! For me this is valuable when getting the bride and groom running down the aisle out of the church/synagogue. I wouldn't normally need a 10mm for that but sometimes the videographer is too close and crowds me in the aisle... and I have to shoot WIDE. Darn videographers. The Panasonic 10-25mm is on my shopping list.
Thanks a lot for the review! Love all your videos! I am currently a GH5s, Viltrox EF-M2, Sigma 18-35 shooter and I absolutely love the combination. The only way I would ever purchase the 10-25 is if Panasonic releases the following: Panasonic GH6? - Low light capability of the GH5s (even a bit worse is okay) - IBIS of the GH5 - Phase Detect or comparible auto focus system - Full V-log with 10-bit internally (up to 4K60p) - $2500 or less * Bonus: 4K120p This would make the investment in the lens worth it for sure, but for now I can't see why it's worth picking up the 10-25 over the Sigma/Booster combination.
@@cmdr.shepard I used to use a Zhiyun Crane Plus with my 12-35mm f2.8 but I bought an a6400 with a 18-105 f4 just to sit on my gimbal. I film documentary so it's good to have a camera always on the gimbal like that and the autofocus makes it easier.
@@expatlifekorea9526 I have the 12-35 as my first lens. Im looking for my second lens and I really want to get the Sigma 18-35 but I feel like I'm just buying the same focal length. Would you recommend I sell the 12-35 and buy the Sigma and maybe buy a cheaper prime native lens?
@@Slesaint17 It depends on what kind of stuff you film. If you shoot travel, documentary, or gimbal work then I think the 12-35 is a really essential lens because it's so light. The 18-35 is amazing, but it's so heavy that it's not as practical to just throw in your bag and take with you anywhere. I'd only recommend it over the 12-35 if you don't think the weight will be an issue and you have a gimbal that can handle the setup. If I was in your position, I would buy a Panasonic 35-100mm f2.8 and then you can film basically everything. Then I'd invest in a speedbooster and start buying Canon full frame primes that you can also use on other cameras in the future.
Great content as always. Two comments: Viltrox 0.71x speedbooster is only $250 (vs $650 Metabones). $500 Canon 17-40L adapted to A7iii via MC-11 is an even better deal (at only 1/3 of the price).
The reason why people pay so much for the Metabones is that it has much better AF implementation (especially AF-C) than the Viltrox. Also, the corners are a bit sharper than the Viltrox.
Sigma 18-35 is my go to lense. I use it almost everytime. The combo 18-35mm + SpeedBooster is even more affordable if you buy the Viltrox EF-M2 which I use.
Interesting to re visit this review after a year or so. I had no intention in buying this lens and so just watched it originally for info, however I just picked one up at a silly price here in the UK, so a re visit was needed. I still agree with what you say however as a videographer rather than photographer, this lens makes total sense, the autofocus works great for video and outside it is without doubt the most accurate autofocus lens I have. And the clutch on manual focus is great especially whilst using a wireless focus system ( tilta nano). Must say when I first unboxed it the size and weight almost made me box it straight back up again, but a month later I don’t even notice it in use, I have even balanced it on a Ronin SC. Again great video and as always thank you.
Slam dunk dude! I've been saying all of these points for months once it was revealed the absence of Power O.I.S. Unless you're a hybrid shooter capturing photos and video, there are so many better options out there for the money. Now if this had optical stabilization, this would be a home run replacement for the Lumix 12 - 35 F2.8 paired with the GH5S (no IBIS) that does not have a clutch, making it possible to motor map with a wireless follow focus. Anyway, nice breakdown. Keep fighting the good fight against the "hype monster".
Thank you so much for this video! I was in doubt about these lenses for the BMPCC4K. The Panasonic attracted me for being wider at the wide end than the Sigma, but after these review, the Sigma + Speedbooster is obviously the better deal for video
i shot with the 10-25mm today, and its.... outstanding. AF is aim and hit. Super quick. Quality is insane. Didn't knew MFT photo's could be THIS sharp... wish I had the 2k moneysss....
I feel like the 10-25 could replace 3 of my lenses: (8-18), (25 f1.7) and (12-35 f2.8) so I could carry only this one with the (35-100f 2.8). I think that the Sigma is still not wide enough for some applications. I would be curious to vlog with it but AF looks so bad... :/ I will wait to see if MFT can still keep up with the FF world, before buying.
I use the Speedbooster XL with the Sigma, which makes it about 23-44mm or so, which is great. With ex-tele 1.4x crop in 4k and 2x crop in 1080p with the Panasonic G9, it's a very versatile setup. The only issue is the AF speed, which is definitely slower than with a native m43 lens, but it's an okay tradeoff.
@@slows728 Good to know, thank you. I've been giving a lot of thought to the 10-25, just not sure if I can justify the expense in the current economic climate re. covid business disruptions.
Slowskiss I saw you mentioned the 10-25’s noisy AF in another comment. I don’t experience this on my GH5 + 10-25 combo. Do you know of anyone else who’s run into the same issue? *EDIT:* _I just noticed the 30/60fps part. I never use AF in anything but 24fps. I’ll have to try it at higher frame rates and see if mine is noisy too._
having a 10mm is definitely nice, I think that's the biggest advantage of the lens. No other lens is any other system offer a 20-50mm focal range and I think that's a big selling point, although I happy with my 18-35.
Great comparison between these two lenses, and a solid conclusion, too. The Sigma 18-35 has been my go-to lens for quite a while, for both my MFT and Super35 cameras. Great lens as a very affordable price.
Late to the game here, wonderful review. But what it really points up is the fact that despite all the options, the Lumix line is still wanting for a high-quality, wide aperture, wide angle zoom lens. And I’ll add, one that is reasonably affordable. I had no trouble finding such lenses on Canon years back. Let’s face it, it really sucks that these two options, neither inexpensive, both have lousy auto focus and lousy manual focus. When is Lumix going to dump the focus by wire?
Another great review! I have a GH5 and have used the Sigma with Speedbooster for two years now and have been very pleased with the results. It's heavy I agree but a great look and very sharp lens in my opinion. Thanks for the comparison :-)
All this shows how good of a lens the old Sigma is. And it fits (at least) 2 sensor sizes, which would make it a no-brainer for me, if I was shopping for a lens like that.
Man, there's just nothing that quite compares to the 18-35. Every video I watch about it makes me more and more confident that I made a good choice when I bought mine. I can't see where anyone would ever buy the Pany 10-25. At $1,800, terrible autofocus, and has an extending barrel, even if it were (somehow) sharper than the Sigma, it still wouldn't make sense, to me at least. Especially when you can get the 18-35 with the Viltrox EF-M2 for about $750 new right now. Even for photo, I'd recommend a few primes that easily cover the focal range and would outperform the 10-25 in every category. Also, as usual, thank you for these thorough and well-done tests man!
Actually, I saw a video that showed the 10-25 being sharper than several panasonic leica primes at the same focal lengths. But I totally get what you're saying. It seems ridiculous to spend that much on this lens. Im so torn!
as always, amazing amazing in depth review and comparison dude. I was just sitting here thinking, why have I not seen hundreds of videos on this thing - you answered that. Thanks for being awesome.
Great video, unbiased unlike many others. Thanks. A note though. Even if a lens doesn't extend when zooming, internal parts are moving and change the balance of the lens. So, IMO, there is no real advantage to a zoom not extending. There is a weight shift anyway. And why did you not use the 0.64x SB ? It gives a wider FOV and and even wider aperture at 2.2 (with crops).
The 0.64x speed booster will have vignetting issues on the GH5 at the wide end of the 18-35 lens, from my understanding. In terms of the balancing, you're right that elements are moving around even with internal zooms, but I have seen the argument that the front elements are the heaviest so external zooms become more unbalanced than internal zooms. Plus, internal zooms make more sense if you're going to have stuff at the end of the lens like filters or a matte box or something.
Great video. Thanks Gerald. I think Panasonic released special camera update (GH5/s and G9) to fix autofocus issues with the 10-25. I wonder if the lens would behave differently after the update?
I wonder whether the 10-17 might perform better on another camera (G9, OM-D EM-1 Mark II), or be fixed with a firmware upgrade? A video like this, I would like Panasonic to see.
Very helpful indeed. In that I've got the Sigma although with a Viltrox speed booster - which makes it a hell of a lot less expensive. I've found AF to be not great, even in video, so it's sort of a relief the Panasonic doesn't do it in that respect - which I am surprised by. I do appreciate the shallower DoF of the Sigma - it's a zoom lens that gets close to matching anything I have for the format, whereas the Panasonic as you point out is not even like a premium zoom. In fact while I was considering buying the Panasonic I bought a second hand Sony A7rII, the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 AND a Samyang 18 f2.8 for about the same cost as the 10-25 new. I may be nuts, but I still love my G9. The IBIS makes it good for low light situations without a tripod so long as I don't mind some movement in the shot [which I quite like a lot of the time]. So there are lots of options for your money. I'm afraid I agree that the 10-25 is a very expensive one and doesn't offer enough to justify itself to me. It did surprise me a little bit that there's relatively little difference in weight. The Sigma is a beast and when I handled the 10-25 at a camera fair I was surprised it felt a lot less heavy than I expected. I didn't have the Sigma with me at the time. Perception is a funny thing...
I have bought the 10-25 a few days before this test was published. In the shop I have tried the lens as usual (for me) with back button focusing. Which worked fine for me. As Auto Focus is only used when making photographs or as a help in Manual mode I was not aware of this flaw of the lens and camera in video mode. I made a quick test and indeed experienced not a slight trace of auto focus when 'copying' your test. I then tried the same with the 12-35 (rev. 1) and in fact the auto focus was also not working. I have programmed Back Button and halfway shutter release Focus long ago and maybe some setting inadvertently blocks the AF in video mode. Over the past few days I did some video (4k 50p) of events in bright daylight or in a club setting (4k 25p). As I am used to Joy Stick and Back Button I found the lens working fine and the image quality very convincing. Furthermore the manual focus ring is working as a powerful additional tool for manual focusing when a fine adjustment is needed. Additional note: Just made the same test with my GH4 (firmware rev. 2.6) and 10-25 lens (also programmed for BB and half way pressing focus) and the auto focus is working, a little slow however, during video recording (4k 25p). So maybe lack of AF is a problem related to the GH5 (firmware rev. 2.5) and not specifically to the lens (rev. 1.0).
I will state I'm not a professional but my tests do not give the same results at all. I have the GH5 with firm 2.4. AF in video mode is night and day in comparison to other lenses I have. The AF is actually great. Face tracking works so well it doesn't even feel like I'm using the GH5 lol. I have a feeling the firmware is giving you guys issues. I'm not going to update just in case.
@@Highpwrfitness I'm also not a professional. I will experiment with Face Recognition more! In my tests I was using 1-Area and Tracking modes. In the past I had difficulties with Face Recognition during gigs.
4:10 you say if you focus at 10 mm and go to 25 mm you need to re focus. We used parfocal lenses in college and the rule was always "Zoom in, focus up, pull back." It makes sense if you think about it, if the focus stays the same all the way through why would you not zoom right in as much as you can to get perfect focus from the start instead of starting at 10 mm where it may not be as exact and then zoom in for the close up? This was using huge broadcast cameras so I'm not sure if it will work with this lens but I would be interested to find out if it improves it or not. Great content as usual, thanks Gerald.
I've been testing a lot of lens options recently, and posted the results to my website, and for M43, and as of today (4-16-2022) I think I like the 12-60 range much better, even if it has a variable aperture. To me, the Sigma 18-35 on a .71x focal reducer/speed booster isn't wide or long enough. I then tried the Sigma 17-50 2.8 on the same .71x (Viltrox) focal reducer, and while loved 50mm at the long end, 17mm wasn't wide enough. I may try a .64x focal reducer, but I really think Panasonic finally got it right with the 12-60 options, especially since they offer dual stabilization (IBIS + lens OIS) capabilities.
The 12-60 is very versatile, but the sigma is basically a 12-25 mft range. I find that I almost never need the short end and I end up pushing nearly to 25mm anyway, while I'd like a further distance to focus, so I'm picking up the 25-50mm 1.7 leica today
@@lilzohan7078 Hope it works out well for you, etc. I should mention I'm using the "always shoot with 2 cameras" (that's part of my "Fake Filmmaking" method) so when using the 12-60 I'm always at the WIDE end, and then (on my #2 cam) I have a Nikon 50 with a .71x speed booster for a 35 F1.2 low light tool, etc. When I use 2 cameras I find that it's much easier to pick lenses (as no single lens has to do everything!)
@@silverlightphotoco I myself also use two, sometimes three cameras to achieve the look I want for wedding videography haha! No one lense can do everything, so having a second shooter punched in with the leica nocticron 42.5 1.2 mft lense and me with the sigma 18-35 has been a good combo, although I find myself less and less using the sigma and instead using my $150 25mm 1.7 on a gh5 on a gimbal that works wayyy better than it honestly should at that price haha
The results of this video surprised me! I do have a question though. On our little Panasonic GX80 we noticed we get much better autofocus results in video when using AFF instead of AFC. Would it be too much to ask to test both lenses using AFF and see if it changes the outcome?
Great review and comparison. It was very helpful. Often people are too focused on the obligatory sharpness. But there are so many other factors that make a lens what it is. And your comprehensive comparison/demonstration shows how important all the other factors are. Thanks. I was very interested in the new 10-25, but for what I do, the adapted Sigma would be the choice.
[All lengths in 35mm equivalent] I like the 20-50 Panasonic's range for my personal "indoor street" photography. 20mm is wide enough when I want wide. But I hate 35mm for "normal" photography because there's something uncanny valley about the perspective. 43mm looks right, 28mm looks like you actually meant the perspective distortion, 35mm looks like somebody screwed up. So I want my wide zoom to go out to 45+. I wouldn't want to use a typical 16-35 equiv indoors, because it doesn't go long enough and I don't want to change lens every third shot. A 24-70 doesn't go wide enough, though it's better than a 16-35. A 20-50 is perhaps the least bad compromise. Basically, I want every non-niche zoom I use to include 43mm, and a 16-35 doesn't. [By "niche" I mean something like a 12-24 which goes on for real estate interiors, or a 70-200 which goes on for sports, or a fast prime.]
This helped a lot, thx. I am going to buy the 10-25 Because of this. I am going to remain on m43 for a while and shoot both video and Photo. This is what got me. Also I‘m already in love with the Panasonic Leica lenses feel and look (got the 12-60 with the Gh5). And I don’t want any adapter/speedbooster option for now. Much Love
I have the 12-60mm Leica and it is a very good lens, however the 10-25mm is awesome, the rendering is far better than the Sigma, the CAF is also very good (I think there is a serious issue with the sample of Gerald). The only issue with the 10-25mm is the AFC noise in video ...
Very good comparison between the two. Regarding the flare on the Sigma I'm pretty sure it is because of the booster, at least in my combo when the booster is off, the lens is very good against flare. After using the lens a lot with both (just adapter / speed booster), I find myself using it mostly without the speed booster: it behaves better, it is sharper, more flare resistant. I use the booster in case there's a need to go very wide or in extreme low light.
I showed up 1st because I'm an S1H owner, but I also have a GH5s.. and I just bought a Boling P1 somewhat because of your excellent review. keep up the great work.. I don't think either of these lenses would be right for me (I have primes on the GH5s)
Bro your reviews are so in depth in things i dont even care to learn but its awesome learning! Haha love your videos and have been a subscriber for about a year and a half now! Great content!!!
Awesome review Gerald! I was been contemplating the 10-25mm and selling my Sigma/MB combo but since you discovered the auto focus issues with video shooting with the 10-25mm, that helped make my decision clear
We've been waiting years for Sigma to add their own speedboosting elements and make a Sigma 12-25/1.2 DG DN Art. They already own the patent for this design and nobody owns the design with an extra element. It's a mystery why it never happens.
Hi Gerald, fan of your channel and documentary filmmaker from Malaysia! Would love to see you review the new 25-50mm … do please consider ;) Thank you!
This video is 3 years old but still brings a good point. Why purchase the Panasonic, when you can invest in a system with Phase Detect Autofocus. I think that 3 years later, seeing the recent success with the S5II, along with the recent hints at a MFT Phase Detect Autofocus camera, your point about a very select amount of people becomes more prominent. I currently use MFT and have no plans on changing, as I believe if Panasonic can make a phase detect MFT camera, it will do very well and will probably convince me to full invest in lenses such as this one, and the 25-50mm f1.7
As always, thank you Gerald. I've been considering this lens (Panasonic) since it was first announced. I'm surprised, especially about the video autofocus on the Panasonic lens. With the smooth-sliding aperture and all, Panasonic was apparently optimizing it for video. I mean, I would at least expect to see it hunting, but in your test it wasn't even trying to autofocus. I thought I had seen other reviews where it was working pretty well, but it has been a few months and I may have forgotten. Overall, wow, this review is a real black eye for this highly-vaunted and long-awaited Panasonic lens lens.
@@geraldundone P.S. - Thanks for broadcasting in 4K! I just got a 4K monitor, and ALMOST everyone else in my subscription list (exception is Max Yuryev) publishes in HD. My old, bespectacled eyes can actually tell the difference between HD and 4K. Even between 2K and 4K (barely)! Anyway, it makes the viewing that much more pleasurable and I appreciate it.
Wow! I had no idea about the par focal issue with the sigma when using the metabones! Already learned something. I'm looking to adjust mine right now. Thanks Gerald!!!
I’m absolutely the target market or perfect customer for this lens I go very fast between shooting photos and video. I need proper auto focus for photos and a manual focus in video with the auto focus still being a viable option.
Excellent thorough video! You wanted to hear our thoughts. So after watching this you convinced me that I wouldn't want to use either lens system. Too many issues with both.
Who would ever focus at the wide end and then zoom to the telephoto end expecting to hold focus? Focus at the telephoto end where the depth of field is shallower, then zoom out to frame your shot. If you then zoom in during shot, the Panasonic should hold focus.
Indoor medium to low light (like in church) footage of concerts when you need really wide angle wiev (you have to capture a choir and orchestra from in front of first row of audience without the main pair of mics in the frame). The only real advantage of Panasonic 10-25 is its wide angle and that is what is important to me. You will never get that angle of view on a zoom lens with FF lens and speedbooster. But I think that m.zuiko 7-14 would be even more usefull to me in such setting.
Gerald, thank you for doing this test. I've been pondering about this new lens and have come to the same conclusion you have. Its nice. But not necessary if you already have the Sig option. I think what would give the Panasonic more value, or interest, if they make a 25 to 50mm(?) f1.7 to be used as a set. As a pair, expensive aside, I might like that much better then the Sig option.
I think you should double check your AF test. I’ve seen the complete opposite in other videos. Something funky going on. Were you on latest firmware on the GH5?
I don't have two versions of the lens to compare, so it's possible mine is a lemon, but it works so well in photo mode that I doubt it. And I'm confident in my AF settings.
Just tested again. Pretty similar results, but I can say that certain focal lengths seem to focus better than others. At 10mm for instance it rarely works, but 25mm performs a bit better. None of them are reliable, but it does vary. 18mm is pretty bad for instance, which is where I did the test in the video.
I think that this would make an excellent lens for real estate, photo or video. I don’t do real estate. I think the 12-35 mm f2.8 makes a better travel lens, although the extra width and brightness would be nice in medieval streets and castles.
I have the Sigma 18-35 and use it for low-light work with the Metabones booster on the GH5, on Canon 1Dx II/III for cropped 4K60, and on an A7R3 for cropped 4K. I've also rented the 10-25/1.7, and I agree with your conclusions. Micro-4/3 has in-body lateral color corrections, but the Sigma/Metabones combo doesn't send a profile to the body. I suspect that's why the Panasonic wins in that regard (IIRC the GH5 does do lateral color compensation in its video pipeline). It would be interesting to compare in RAW on the BMPCC4K and see if the tables are turned. The Sigma is reasonably flare-resistant on its own. The speedbooster adds an additional 4 optical groups (8 reflective surfaces), and like death and taxes, flare from additional surfaces is unavoidable. I wouldn't use that combo outdoors, but then, that's not the purpose of an effective f/1.3 lens.
Great video. I'm primarily a m43 photographer that is doing more and more video. I love the lens for its 1.7 for the low light photography work I do. It's going to make life much easier. With video work, it won't be the perfect solution. But it will be more than good enough for the work I'm doing. To me, speedboosters softens an image. I can always tell. But that could work for you. It's great to have options and love the Panasonic made the lens.
I’ve been looking at videos online about the Leica 10-25mm and this video stands out as the only negative one, and despite some interesting and potentially valid complaints it also describes problems that other videos do not, like the autofocus being worse on the Leica than on the Sigma. I keep coming back to this video and wondering if Gerald got a dud, or if a number of problems were fixed via firmware updates to either the lens itself or the GH5 after-the-fact. I also think the Leica 10-25 has a much better argument for it now there is a matching Leica 25-50 - the promise of two similar-sized relatively small native MFT lenses with a similar beautiful image that can cover all your focal length ranges (equivalent coverage of 20-100mm on full frame sensors) is really enticing for anyone who wants to run and gun with the greatest convenience and flexibility. The similar weight of the Leica lenses (690g and 654g respectively) means swapping them on a gimbal is somewhat plausible. The nearest equivalent set would be Sigma 18-35 and Sigma 50-100, which would cover the full frame equivalent of 25.56mm - 49.7mm and 71-142mm if using a x0.71 speed booster, which leaves a big gap uncovered in between and has 5.56mm less coverage on the wide end - which may be enough not to need a separate wide angle lens if using the Leica depending on an individual’s needs. Also, the Sigma 50-100 at 1490g is almost double the weight of the 810g Sigma 18-35, which makes it more unwieldly to use and difficult to substitute on a gimbal. I think the only seeming weakness of the Leica lens is the autofocus and the lack of OIS, and the GH6 mitigates both of those issues by improving the autofocus as well as the IBIS. It would be interesting to see a current day video on the 10-25 and 25-50 Leica lenses on the new Panasonic GH6 camera and see where they land now with all the updates
Native lenses always autofocus better than adapter mounted lenses, so I'm so confused why Geralds 10-25 focused THAT poorly lol. I've been rocking the 18-35 sigma for 2 years and I never trust the autofocus, whereas anything that's a native lense is actually not too horrible for autofocus when using it properly
@@lilzohan7078 I actually pulled the trigger and purchased the Leica 10-25mm and the 25-50mm in the last couple of months since I left that last comment, and while they were expensive I can say it was the best DSLR-related set of purchases I have ever made by a signficiant margin. They are so much smoother, easier to use, with better contrast and colors out of the box than the Sigma 18-35. I haven't tried them on my old GH5 yet, but autofocus on the GH6 with these lenses is reliable from my shoots so far and reduces my need for a second person when making videos. I highly recommend if you can stomach the price!
@@ryanprussin I borrowed the 25-50 and it's been a lot of fun so far! I still might return it but we will see, it's worked well for me at a wedding and at a business shoot
Can't agree with your focus comments re. video. I have this lens mounted on my own GH5, and after some focus settings revisions can get this lens to auto-focus quite nicely. Just my first-hand experience.
The factor I think is huge is glossed over here. The difference between 20mm equivalent and 25mm equivalent. That extra 5mm of “wide” is gigantic and amazingly useful. Rather than a brief mention, this factor needed way more attention. Between the weight difference and the extra width, for me, the pendulum swings toward the 10-25 and makes the price premium worth it.
7 years into shooting, the amount of times I've actually needed or used a 20mm FF equiv focal length throughout the course of things, whether hobby or work, is basically non-existant outside of purely real estate work. In which case 20mm isn't nearly wide enough for real estate - 16-18mm is far more desirable anyway for that.
Like you said in the video, this lens seems targeted at a very specific type of customer. This lens makes sense for me as a hybrid MFT (GH5) shooter because it replaces several of my mft fast primes. It's weather resistant so i can travel and shoot in harsh conditions without having to change out lenses in the field (during a rain storm for example). The AF performance allows me to switch between photos and video on the fly. Instead of carrying several primes in my bag i can now care just this one so the overall weight of my kit bag goes down. Additionally the focus clutch with linear-like control and step-less aperture are huge advantages compared to my older Panasonic fast primes. The relatively high price sucks but worth it for me because of the practical convenience and features. I plan to pick one up early next year.
I absolutely love how thorough you are Gerald. Fantastic work as always
Thanks, Levi! 🙏💜
Clearest to-the-point, useful-info-per-second, no-BS video I've seen in a long time. Subscribed.
Useful info per second - YT should use this metric!
About C-AF in video, thought I'll put in my 2 cents.
I have the GH5, G9 and the Leica 10-25mm.
When I first put the lens on, to my surprise C-AF was poor, that is, it didn't even seem to try to pull focus.
I then tried the lens on the G9 and the focusing is spot on, no concerns with it at all.
Back on the GH5, I tried my 12-35 mk1 and it also didn't attempt to autofocus. After cycling through my Custom modes, I found one mode that allowed continuous autofocus to work very well - both on the 10-25mm and the 12-35mm. Leading me to believe that the 2.5 firmware may have been the issue. Neither my Custom1 or Custom2 modes worked, but my Custom3-2 did (Custom3-1 is VFR).
Please share your settings to address the AF problem
Please share your settings! I saw a review where 10-25 blows out of water Sigma 18-35 in terms of AF. And since this is truely wide angle lens it is more viable option to me. But I would like to know if this can work reliably with GH5S.
Hi
With my GH5 (latest firmware), my 10-25mm makes a little noise when I use AFC in 4k video 30 or 60fps.
If I set the AFC setting with speed +5 and sensitivity +3, the noise is louder.
Is it normal to get this noise ?
Thank you.
@@przybylskipawel I can confirm, the 10-25mm AF is way better than the 18-35mm Sigma. I have the 2.6 firmware on my GH5.
What do you mean by "found mode to allow continuous autofocus Custom3-1 is VFR"? Was this set at one of the 8-bit RECORD QUALITY settings? None of the 4K 10-bit settings allow VFR.
I have a sigma 18-35 and a viltrox speed booster. It makes my lumix g7 look like it was a camera that came from heaven with the image quality it gives me. For short films and studio work, it's a must. Plus i can adapt it to my sony a6300. 2 for 1
I just recently bought a used G7. Are you using the Viltrox EF-M2?
Reg Does Stuff your footage does look really good. Makes me wonder why I picked up the GH5!!
@@BhargavaMan yes i am and it work just like a metabones.
I have a Sigma Viltrox and GH5. In my opinion is perfect combo. I have used that for 18 months and it is great. Only downside is that 3-4 times camera was stop recording and frozen all menu. To turn down the camera I must had to out the battery. The files were corruppted. Since 2018 I have done many wedings using sigma and gh5, so 3-4 times is not bad. I compared to Leica 15mm and the sigma is a liltlle bit sharper.
you should upgrade to the metabones, i tested both and viltrox was very blurry
Hi Gerald and fellow you tubers. I guess I’m chiming in a bit late for anyone to see this but here’s my experience. I only run 1, single main camera (GH5) and my kit has been put together around the mft system. This Leica 10-25 is simply a godsend. Except for gimbal work! I am putting together a video series of walking people through diy boat refurbishing. The thing is, when I’m done with videoing the work I do on the boats, I need quality pictures of the vessel to post and sell the actual watercraft. This lens does both insanely well and with the shutter angle trick and camera updates it’s a wow of a lens ‘for my needs’
I agree, there is no comparison with the Sigma, the rendering is far better on the Leica, and the CAF too.
Parfocal does not work by focusing wide then expecting it to be in focus zoomed in. It's the other way around. You zoom in, focus, and then expect the 10 to 25 to be in focus throughout the range.
I can confirm using your method works with this lens without issue.
Dan Lowder Thanks, good to know. That’s what we did with the parfocal ENG cameras, as fast as hell we would zoom in, focus, and the pull out as fast as we could to get the shot.
I thought for sure that sooner or later I was going to acquire the 10-25. Then I watched your video. Outstanding work.
Thanks a lot, Tom! Cheers.
THIS is the video I was waiting for! Thank you!
Glad to hear it. Cheers! 😃🙏
I was curious too!
@@geraldundone this is great! right to the point and at a pace that most can follow.
I think the reason why you dont get it, is that you underplay the wide end by A LOT. 20-50mm full frame is a BIG deal, and arguably the best range you can get for a video lens, you wont feel very compelled for another lens, while the 18-35 can feel tight at times and need a complimenting lens, which doesnt really exist, no ultrawide fast zoom.
Based on the user I guess. I don't underplay the 20mm, because for me, it's not very useful. I don't like anything wider than 24mm. That's just my preference.
The extra 5mm is a huge difference. For both video and still event shooters, this difference could make the Panny a much better fit.
@@geraldundone I understand that you have your personal preference, but I think it is a point which is not given sufficient coverage in your video. The fact that the 10-25mm has a 2.5x zoom capability with f1.7 maximum aperture deserves a bit more screen time. Other than this missed point, it is an excellent video. I enjoyed it, very informative.
First of all, I'd like to say that Gerald's videos are among my favorites in terms of content and production quality. So much work goes into these videos and it shows.
With that said, I agree with Charlie N...those extra 5mm on the wide end put the 10-25 in a whole other category than the 18-35. To go from 20mm to a "normal" 50mm with stellar image quality through the zoom range is incredible. Next is that de-clicked aperture ring for video. It's so great in quickly changing lighting conditions...don't have to mess around with an ND filter (if max aperture is not needed). Finally, I was getting poor results when pairing the 18-35 with the Viltrox adapter. There are major problems when shooting wide open away from the center of the frame...there was strange ghosting effects, loss of contrast, and it just didn't look right. So, the 10-25 was an easy decision for me despite the high cost.
You can't beat a 1.1 f stop. You can see in the dark better than your eyes. The Sigma is amazing for keeping stable because the weight helps.
With the release of the GH6, the Sigma with Speedbooster XL is going to be incredible.
What impresses me is how well the Sigma 18-35 holds out in comparison to the newer Pany 10-25. The Sigma performed very well overall and maintains its dominance even years after its introduction.
This is one of the best, or the best RUclips channel for BMPCC 4K (& GH5) gear reviews! You always answers all my questions without being too technical or too long. Thanks!!!
10 to 20 mm is an interesting focal range if you like nightscape photography. The Sigma 18-35 with speedbooster reaches, at widest focal, about 13 mm (26 mm equivalent), which is an angle of view way different from the 10 mm (20 mm equivalent) offered by the Panasonic. This is a noticeable difference
Great video Gerald. Just wanted to add my thoughts for those still considering these or similar options. I own both combinations so I have no reason to favor one over the other. With that said, the Sigma/MB combo coughing up 5mm on the wide end puts it at a severe disadvantage to the 10-25. Going from 20mm to 50mm (FF equiv) with a turn of the barrel at 1.7 is what you're paying for if you ask me. Also, the glorious Sigma optics takes a hit for sure with that metabones adapter...the sharpness is fine, but there is a significant drop in contrast compared to the 10-25 (you can see it at 8:25 in the video). It should also be noted that the 10-25 suffers from pretty major distortion at the wide end in RAW photo files and video footage that need to be dealt with when processing. For example, those planning to stick this thing on a BMPCC 4K and expecting straight lines when filming buildings etc. at 10mm will be disappointed. I usually only reach for the Sigma combo when bokeh is paramount and that's about it.
that Leica DG 10-25mm is a beast and my dream lens for the GH5 😍
This review is very helpful for many of us wondering what's all the hype around this "great video lens". Spot on, Gerald, as always!
Proving once again: the most intelligent reviews on the phototube. Good job purple guy.
Exactly right ... also the sigma 18-35mm is the most adaptable lens I own. I have used it on many different systems. Needless to say, I will be keeping it. Thank you for producing another thorough, inciteful, and, informative video.
This is the video that made me get the Sigma. Was going to go for the Panasonic. Thank you Gerald! The world of speedboosters opened up to me
Great review as always, Gerald.
Based on your review, I understand your puzzlement about the Panasonic 10-25mm.
BUT
I'm an event photographer. The Panasonic 10-25mm is a short fast zoom (equivalent to 20-50mm) which is the perfect range for wedding/event receptions. The Sigma 18mm just isn't wide enough. The 10-25mm would allow me to get quick group shots during cocktail hour, dancing shots, the hora, etc. and have the flexibility of the f1.7 aperture when I want to shoot some non-flash available light stuff - even in a cozy, dark-ish venue like a tiny claustrophobic NYC restaurant.
Yes, much of this can be done with the Olympus 12-40 f2.8, but it's only f2.8 and not *quite* wide enough for when the wedding crowd gets a little crazy on the dance floor.
It's nice to hear that the continuous AF is good for stills! For me this is valuable when getting the bride and groom running down the aisle out of the church/synagogue. I wouldn't normally need a 10mm for that but sometimes the videographer is too close and crowds me in the aisle... and I have to shoot WIDE. Darn videographers.
The Panasonic 10-25mm is on my shopping list.
Thanks a lot for the review! Love all your videos!
I am currently a GH5s, Viltrox EF-M2, Sigma 18-35 shooter and I absolutely love the combination. The only way I would ever purchase the 10-25 is if Panasonic releases the following:
Panasonic GH6?
- Low light capability of the GH5s (even a bit worse is okay)
- IBIS of the GH5
- Phase Detect or comparible auto focus system
- Full V-log with 10-bit internally (up to 4K60p)
- $2500 or less
* Bonus: 4K120p
This would make the investment in the lens worth it for sure, but for now I can't see why it's worth picking up the 10-25 over the Sigma/Booster combination.
@@cmdr.shepard I used to use a Zhiyun Crane Plus with my 12-35mm f2.8 but I bought an a6400 with a 18-105 f4 just to sit on my gimbal. I film documentary so it's good to have a camera always on the gimbal like that and the autofocus makes it easier.
@@expatlifekorea9526 I have the 12-35 as my first lens. Im looking for my second lens and I really want to get the Sigma 18-35 but I feel like I'm just buying the same focal length. Would you recommend I sell the 12-35 and buy the Sigma and maybe buy a cheaper prime native lens?
@@Slesaint17 It depends on what kind of stuff you film. If you shoot travel, documentary, or gimbal work then I think the 12-35 is a really essential lens because it's so light. The 18-35 is amazing, but it's so heavy that it's not as practical to just throw in your bag and take with you anywhere. I'd only recommend it over the 12-35 if you don't think the weight will be an issue and you have a gimbal that can handle the setup.
If I was in your position, I would buy a Panasonic 35-100mm f2.8 and then you can film basically everything. Then I'd invest in a speedbooster and start buying Canon full frame primes that you can also use on other cameras in the future.
Great content as always. Two comments:
Viltrox 0.71x speedbooster is only $250 (vs $650 Metabones).
$500 Canon 17-40L adapted to A7iii via MC-11 is an even better deal (at only 1/3 of the price).
The reason why people pay so much for the Metabones is that it has much better AF implementation (especially AF-C) than the Viltrox. Also, the corners are a bit sharper than the Viltrox.
Sigma 18-35 is my go to lense. I use it almost everytime. The combo 18-35mm + SpeedBooster is even more affordable if you buy the Viltrox EF-M2 which I use.
I have the 8-18 panna and I am happy with it...no need for change
I got the sigma 18-35 last black Friday for $525.
I like that you are impartial and honest. Thank you for the comparison 👍🏼
What a great review, Gerald is so thorough! I also realize the bokeh thing with M4/3 is no big deal to me. It seems very pleasing on all the lenses.
Interesting to re visit this review after a year or so. I had no intention in buying this lens and so just watched it originally for info, however I just picked one up at a silly price here in the UK, so a re visit was needed. I still agree with what you say however as a videographer rather than photographer, this lens makes total sense, the autofocus works great for video and outside it is without doubt the most accurate autofocus lens I have. And the clutch on manual focus is great especially whilst using a wireless focus system ( tilta nano).
Must say when I first unboxed it the size and weight almost made me box it straight back up again, but a month later I don’t even notice it in use, I have even balanced it on a Ronin SC.
Again great video and as always thank you.
Slam dunk dude! I've been saying all of these points for months once it was revealed the absence of Power O.I.S. Unless you're a hybrid shooter capturing photos and video, there are so many better options out there for the money. Now if this had optical stabilization, this would be a home run replacement for the Lumix 12 - 35 F2.8 paired with the GH5S (no IBIS) that does not have a clutch, making it possible to motor map with a wireless follow focus. Anyway, nice breakdown. Keep fighting the good fight against the "hype monster".
Thank you so much for this video! I was in doubt about these lenses for the BMPCC4K. The Panasonic attracted me for being wider at the wide end than the Sigma, but after these review, the Sigma + Speedbooster is obviously the better deal for video
i shot with the 10-25mm today, and its.... outstanding. AF is aim and hit. Super quick. Quality is insane. Didn't knew MFT photo's could be THIS sharp... wish I had the 2k moneysss....
I feel like the 10-25 could replace 3 of my lenses: (8-18), (25 f1.7) and (12-35 f2.8) so I could carry only this one with the (35-100f 2.8). I think that the Sigma is still not wide enough for some applications. I would be curious to vlog with it but AF looks so bad... :/ I will wait to see if MFT can still keep up with the FF world, before buying.
I use the Speedbooster XL with the Sigma, which makes it about 23-44mm or so, which is great. With ex-tele 1.4x crop in 4k and 2x crop in 1080p with the Panasonic G9, it's a very versatile setup. The only issue is the AF speed, which is definitely slower than with a native m43 lens, but it's an okay tradeoff.
The AF is not bad at all. I used the 10-25mm/GH5 combo and the AFC is way better than the Sigma.
@@slows728 Good to know, thank you. I've been giving a lot of thought to the 10-25, just not sure if I can justify the expense in the current economic climate re. covid business disruptions.
@@raksh9 Yes it's an expensive lens but really worth it, the rendering is very nice too. My only issue is the noisy CAF in video with 4K 30/60fps.
Slowskiss I saw you mentioned the 10-25’s noisy AF in another comment. I don’t experience this on my GH5 + 10-25 combo. Do you know of anyone else who’s run into the same issue?
*EDIT:* _I just noticed the 30/60fps part. I never use AF in anything but 24fps. I’ll have to try it at higher frame rates and see if mine is noisy too._
You are a TRUE RUclips king! What a nice review. Well (un)done, Gerald! Greetings from Copenhagen, Denmark.
having a 10mm is definitely nice, I think that's the biggest advantage of the lens. No other lens is any other system offer a 20-50mm focal range and I think that's a big selling point, although I happy with my 18-35.
I can see that. For me, I never go wider than 24mm, so the 18-35mm is basically just 2/3rds faster option for me.
The details we need, from the right person to do it. 🔥🔥🔥
Great comparison between these two lenses, and a solid conclusion, too. The Sigma 18-35 has been my go-to lens for quite a while, for both my MFT and Super35 cameras. Great lens as a very affordable price.
Late to the game here, wonderful review. But what it really points up is the fact that despite all the options, the Lumix line is still wanting for a high-quality, wide aperture, wide angle zoom lens. And I’ll add, one that is reasonably affordable. I had no trouble finding such lenses on Canon years back. Let’s face it, it really sucks that these two options, neither inexpensive, both have lousy auto focus and lousy manual focus. When is Lumix going to dump the focus by wire?
Really nice rundown, as a Sony user I don't frankly care, but it's interesting to see what the other companies are making.
Thanks for watching and commenting! Cheers. 😃🙏
Bentley Pascoe my conclusion is don't buy Panasonic 😂
@@bit2easy 😂
Another great review! I have a GH5 and have used the Sigma with Speedbooster for two years now and have been very pleased with the results. It's heavy I agree but a great look and very sharp lens in my opinion. Thanks for the comparison :-)
All this shows how good of a lens the old Sigma is. And it fits (at least) 2 sensor sizes, which would make it a no-brainer for me, if I was shopping for a lens like that.
Man, there's just nothing that quite compares to the 18-35. Every video I watch about it makes me more and more confident that I made a good choice when I bought mine. I can't see where anyone would ever buy the Pany 10-25. At $1,800, terrible autofocus, and has an extending barrel, even if it were (somehow) sharper than the Sigma, it still wouldn't make sense, to me at least. Especially when you can get the 18-35 with the Viltrox EF-M2 for about $750 new right now. Even for photo, I'd recommend a few primes that easily cover the focal range and would outperform the 10-25 in every category. Also, as usual, thank you for these thorough and well-done tests man!
Actually, I saw a video that showed the 10-25 being sharper than several panasonic leica primes at the same focal lengths. But I totally get what you're saying. It seems ridiculous to spend that much on this lens. Im so torn!
the leica 10-25 is a much better lens than this video made it seem
as always, amazing amazing in depth review and comparison dude. I was just sitting here thinking, why have I not seen hundreds of videos on this thing - you answered that. Thanks for being awesome.
Much appreciated, Cody! You're too kind. 😃🙏💜
Great video, unbiased unlike many others. Thanks. A note though. Even if a lens doesn't extend when zooming, internal parts are moving and change the balance of the lens. So, IMO, there is no real advantage to a zoom not extending. There is a weight shift anyway. And why did you not use the 0.64x SB ? It gives a wider FOV and and even wider aperture at 2.2 (with crops).
The 0.64x speed booster will have vignetting issues on the GH5 at the wide end of the 18-35 lens, from my understanding.
In terms of the balancing, you're right that elements are moving around even with internal zooms, but I have seen the argument that the front elements are the heaviest so external zooms become more unbalanced than internal zooms. Plus, internal zooms make more sense if you're going to have stuff at the end of the lens like filters or a matte box or something.
Yeah, as said, the 0.64x has some vignetting on the 18-35mm. It's fine on the full frame glass though.
Great video. Thanks Gerald. I think Panasonic released special camera update (GH5/s and G9) to fix autofocus issues with the 10-25. I wonder if the lens would behave differently after the update?
Intro comment: Wet birds don't fly at night, and neither do I.
I wonder whether the 10-17 might perform better on another camera (G9, OM-D EM-1 Mark II), or be fixed with a firmware upgrade?
A video like this, I would like Panasonic to see.
I've seen other reviews that had better AF performance, but they were using the G9. So perhaps that is the difference.
Would love to see how the AF works, now firmware 2.6 has released.
I already own the 18-35 and the speedbooster, but I like seeing that I made the right choice lol
Very helpful indeed. In that I've got the Sigma although with a Viltrox speed booster - which makes it a hell of a lot less expensive. I've found AF to be not great, even in video, so it's sort of a relief the Panasonic doesn't do it in that respect - which I am surprised by. I do appreciate the shallower DoF of the Sigma - it's a zoom lens that gets close to matching anything I have for the format, whereas the Panasonic as you point out is not even like a premium zoom.
In fact while I was considering buying the Panasonic I bought a second hand Sony A7rII, the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 AND a Samyang 18 f2.8 for about the same cost as the 10-25 new. I may be nuts, but I still love my G9. The IBIS makes it good for low light situations without a tripod so long as I don't mind some movement in the shot [which I quite like a lot of the time]. So there are lots of options for your money. I'm afraid I agree that the 10-25 is a very expensive one and doesn't offer enough to justify itself to me.
It did surprise me a little bit that there's relatively little difference in weight. The Sigma is a beast and when I handled the 10-25 at a camera fair I was surprised it felt a lot less heavy than I expected. I didn't have the Sigma with me at the time. Perception is a funny thing...
I have bought the 10-25 a few days before this test was published. In the shop I have tried the lens as usual (for me) with back button focusing. Which worked fine for me. As Auto Focus is only used when making photographs or as a help in Manual mode I was not aware of this flaw of the lens and camera in video mode. I made a quick test and indeed experienced not a slight trace of auto focus when 'copying' your test.
I then tried the same with the 12-35 (rev. 1) and in fact the auto focus was also not working.
I have programmed Back Button and halfway shutter release Focus long ago and maybe some setting inadvertently blocks the AF in video mode.
Over the past few days I did some video (4k 50p) of events in bright daylight or in a club setting (4k 25p). As I am used to Joy Stick and Back Button I found the lens working fine and the image quality very convincing. Furthermore the manual focus ring is working as a powerful additional tool for manual focusing when a fine adjustment is needed.
Additional note: Just made the same test with my GH4 (firmware rev. 2.6) and 10-25 lens (also programmed for BB and half way pressing focus) and the auto focus is working, a little slow however, during video recording (4k 25p). So maybe lack of AF is a problem related to the GH5 (firmware rev. 2.5) and not specifically to the lens (rev. 1.0).
I will state I'm not a professional but my tests do not give the same results at all. I have the GH5 with firm 2.4. AF in video mode is night and day in comparison to other lenses I have. The AF is actually great. Face tracking works so well it doesn't even feel like I'm using the GH5 lol. I have a feeling the firmware is giving you guys issues. I'm not going to update just in case.
@@Highpwrfitness I'm also not a professional. I will experiment with Face Recognition more! In my tests I was using 1-Area and Tracking modes. In the past I had difficulties with Face Recognition during gigs.
4:10 you say if you focus at 10 mm and go to 25 mm you need to re focus. We used parfocal lenses in college and the rule was always "Zoom in, focus up, pull back." It makes sense if you think about it, if the focus stays the same all the way through why would you not zoom right in as much as you can to get perfect focus from the start instead of starting at 10 mm where it may not be as exact and then zoom in for the close up? This was using huge broadcast cameras so I'm not sure if it will work with this lens but I would be interested to find out if it improves it or not. Great content as usual, thanks Gerald.
I've been testing a lot of lens options recently, and posted the results to my website, and for M43, and as of today (4-16-2022) I think I like the 12-60 range much better, even if it has a variable aperture. To me, the Sigma 18-35 on a .71x focal reducer/speed booster isn't wide or long enough. I then tried the Sigma 17-50 2.8 on the same .71x (Viltrox) focal reducer, and while loved 50mm at the long end, 17mm wasn't wide enough. I may try a .64x focal reducer, but I really think Panasonic finally got it right with the 12-60 options, especially since they offer dual stabilization (IBIS + lens OIS) capabilities.
The 12-60 is very versatile, but the sigma is basically a 12-25 mft range. I find that I almost never need the short end and I end up pushing nearly to 25mm anyway, while I'd like a further distance to focus, so I'm picking up the 25-50mm 1.7 leica today
@@lilzohan7078 Hope it works out well for you, etc. I should mention I'm using the "always shoot with 2 cameras" (that's part of my "Fake Filmmaking" method) so when using the 12-60 I'm always at the WIDE end, and then (on my #2 cam) I have a Nikon 50 with a .71x speed booster for a 35 F1.2 low light tool, etc. When I use 2 cameras I find that it's much easier to pick lenses (as no single lens has to do everything!)
@@silverlightphotoco I myself also use two, sometimes three cameras to achieve the look I want for wedding videography haha! No one lense can do everything, so having a second shooter punched in with the leica nocticron 42.5 1.2 mft lense and me with the sigma 18-35 has been a good combo, although I find myself less and less using the sigma and instead using my $150 25mm 1.7 on a gh5 on a gimbal that works wayyy better than it honestly should at that price haha
@@lilzohan7078 Nice! Just subscribed to your channel to "follow" your progress on this, and do you have a Twitter, Facebook and/or Instagram, etc.?
@@silverlightphotoco oh thanks man! Our channel is on a different page - here I'll reply to it with it now!
I have both lenses for my GH5. I never use the sigma, I use the Leica everytime, it's superior.
The results of this video surprised me! I do have a question though. On our little Panasonic GX80 we noticed we get much better autofocus results in video when using AFF instead of AFC. Would it be too much to ask to test both lenses using AFF and see if it changes the outcome?
My thoughts wrapped in actual proofs and spiced up with your Undoneness. Thank you!
Great review and comparison. It was very helpful. Often people are too focused on the obligatory sharpness. But there are so many other factors that make a lens what it is. And your comprehensive comparison/demonstration shows how important all the other factors are. Thanks. I was very interested in the new 10-25, but for what I do, the adapted Sigma would be the choice.
Hey! Appreciate that. Thanks a lot.
Absolutely outstanding review. You are the man Gerald 👍
I felt this lens was priced about $800 too much. At a lower price point, it seems like a great lens option.
Honest and concise. Thank you.
My pleasure. Thanks for the kind words. 😃
blows my mind that a 6-year-old lens keeps up with a brand new design, or even outperforms it in many ways
there are 40 year old vintage lenses that can hold up, so you might get surprised more often ;)
[All lengths in 35mm equivalent]
I like the 20-50 Panasonic's range for my personal "indoor street" photography. 20mm is wide enough when I want wide. But I hate 35mm for "normal" photography because there's something uncanny valley about the perspective. 43mm looks right, 28mm looks like you actually meant the perspective distortion, 35mm looks like somebody screwed up. So I want my wide zoom to go out to 45+.
I wouldn't want to use a typical 16-35 equiv indoors, because it doesn't go long enough and I don't want to change lens every third shot. A 24-70 doesn't go wide enough, though it's better than a 16-35. A 20-50 is perhaps the least bad compromise.
Basically, I want every non-niche zoom I use to include 43mm, and a 16-35 doesn't. [By "niche" I mean something like a 12-24 which goes on for real estate interiors, or a 70-200 which goes on for sports, or a fast prime.]
This helped a lot, thx. I am going to buy the 10-25 Because of this. I am going to remain on m43 for a while and shoot both video and Photo. This is what got me. Also I‘m already in love with the Panasonic Leica lenses feel and look (got the 12-60 with the Gh5). And I don’t want any adapter/speedbooster option for now. Much Love
I have the 12-60mm Leica and it is a very good lens, however the 10-25mm is awesome, the rendering is far better than the Sigma, the CAF is also very good (I think there is a serious issue with the sample of Gerald). The only issue with the 10-25mm is the AFC noise in video ...
Very good comparison between the two. Regarding the flare on the Sigma I'm pretty sure it is because of the booster, at least in my combo when the booster is off, the lens is very good against flare. After using the lens a lot with both (just adapter / speed booster), I find myself using it mostly without the speed booster: it behaves better, it is sharper, more flare resistant. I use the booster in case there's a need to go very wide or in extreme low light.
I showed up 1st because I'm an S1H owner, but I also have a GH5s.. and I just bought a Boling P1 somewhat because of your excellent review. keep up the great work.. I don't think either of these lenses would be right for me (I have primes on the GH5s)
Bro your reviews are so in depth in things i dont even care to learn but its awesome learning! Haha love your videos and have been a subscriber for about a year and a half now! Great content!!!
Thanks so much! Really appreciate that. 😃🙏
Awesome review Gerald! I was been contemplating the 10-25mm and selling my Sigma/MB combo but since you discovered the auto focus issues with video shooting with the 10-25mm, that helped make my decision clear
The 10-25mm has no AF issue. I tested both lenses and the 10-25mm AF is far better. I think this video needs an update.
@@slows728 I think u need to an updated video on this 🙏
Just got both Panasonic 1.7 lenses on sale, they are amazing !
Are you shooting video or photos? I have an opportunity to get one at a discount from a Panny empoyee. Half price....
@@alexibrowne2223 both Photos and videos. For fotos I prefer the 1.7 or 1.2 Prime lenses, but for video the 1.7 zoom is hard to beat
We've been waiting years for Sigma to add their own speedboosting elements and make a Sigma 12-25/1.2 DG DN Art.
They already own the patent for this design and nobody owns the design with an extra element.
It's a mystery why it never happens.
Hi Gerald, fan of your channel and documentary filmmaker from Malaysia! Would love to see you review the new 25-50mm … do please consider ;) Thank you!
This video is 3 years old but still brings a good point. Why purchase the Panasonic, when you can invest in a system with Phase Detect Autofocus. I think that 3 years later, seeing the recent success with the S5II, along with the recent hints at a MFT Phase Detect Autofocus camera, your point about a very select amount of people becomes more prominent. I currently use MFT and have no plans on changing, as I believe if Panasonic can make a phase detect MFT camera, it will do very well and will probably convince me to full invest in lenses such as this one, and the 25-50mm f1.7
oh yes baby
As always, thank you Gerald. I've been considering this lens (Panasonic) since it was first announced. I'm surprised, especially about the video autofocus on the Panasonic lens. With the smooth-sliding aperture and all, Panasonic was apparently optimizing it for video. I mean, I would at least expect to see it hunting, but in your test it wasn't even trying to autofocus. I thought I had seen other reviews where it was working pretty well, but it has been a few months and I may have forgotten. Overall, wow, this review is a real black eye for this highly-vaunted and long-awaited Panasonic lens lens.
Yeah, agreed. Unless mine is a lemon. But I would be surprised by that considering it was sent to me from Panasonic specifically.
@@geraldundone P.S. - Thanks for broadcasting in 4K! I just got a 4K monitor, and ALMOST everyone else in my subscription list (exception is Max Yuryev) publishes in HD. My old, bespectacled eyes can actually tell the difference between HD and 4K. Even between 2K and 4K (barely)! Anyway, it makes the viewing that much more pleasurable and I appreciate it.
Ha. Nice! 😃👍
Gerald that Sigma 18-35 is simply an absolute beast brother!!!! I'm actually considering getting another one after I add that sigma 50-100mm.
Wow! I had no idea about the par focal issue with the sigma when using the metabones! Already learned something. I'm looking to adjust mine right now. Thanks Gerald!!!
Awesome review, Gerald! Best from Copenhagen.
I’m absolutely the target market or perfect customer for this lens
I go very fast between shooting photos and video. I need proper auto focus for photos and a manual focus in video with the auto focus still being a viable option.
I was waiting for this comparison - Gerald you came in clutch as per 🔥
😃🙏
Most of the CA & flaring is due to the speedbooster. If you mount it natively, it's a lot better.
The full frame DOF comparison is probably zooms for zooms isn't it? I guess it probably would stack up similarly to like a 24-70 in that regards.
Excellent thorough video! You wanted to hear our thoughts. So after watching this you convinced me that I wouldn't want to use either lens system. Too many issues with both.
Great review tx.
Most unexpected RUclips crossover! Do you guys use Panasonic?
Who would ever focus at the wide end and then zoom to the telephoto end expecting to hold focus? Focus at the telephoto end where the depth of field is shallower, then zoom out to frame your shot. If you then zoom in during shot, the Panasonic should hold focus.
I'm unashamed for being a camera nerd. I just love my Sigma 18 to 35, thanks for the fix!
A great summation! You verified my thoughts. 🙏🏾
Indoor medium to low light (like in church) footage of concerts when you need really wide angle wiev (you have to capture a choir and orchestra from in front of first row of audience without the main pair of mics in the frame). The only real advantage of Panasonic 10-25 is its wide angle and that is what is important to me. You will never get that angle of view on a zoom lens with FF lens and speedbooster. But I think that m.zuiko 7-14 would be even more usefull to me in such setting.
Gerald, thank you for doing this test. I've been pondering about this new lens and have come to the same conclusion you have. Its nice. But not necessary if you already have the Sig option. I think what would give the Panasonic more value, or interest, if they make a 25 to 50mm(?) f1.7 to be used as a set. As a pair, expensive aside, I might like that much better then the Sig option.
Could be than Should be. Nice line.
I think you should double check your AF test. I’ve seen the complete opposite in other videos. Something funky going on. Were you on latest firmware on the GH5?
He said he was on the latest firmware, but I agree, something definitely seems wrong.
I did it 5 times with different AF settings each time and I mention in the video I'm using the latest firmware. Time: 5:37
I don't have two versions of the lens to compare, so it's possible mine is a lemon, but it works so well in photo mode that I doubt it. And I'm confident in my AF settings.
Just tested again. Pretty similar results, but I can say that certain focal lengths seem to focus better than others. At 10mm for instance it rarely works, but 25mm performs a bit better. None of them are reliable, but it does vary. 18mm is pretty bad for instance, which is where I did the test in the video.
@@geraldundone If this is true then I might just cancel my pre-order.
I think that this would make an excellent lens for real estate, photo or video. I don’t do real estate. I think the 12-35 mm f2.8 makes a better travel lens, although the extra width and brightness would be nice in medieval streets and castles.
I have the Sigma 18-35 and use it for low-light work with the Metabones booster on the GH5, on Canon 1Dx II/III for cropped 4K60, and on an A7R3 for cropped 4K. I've also rented the 10-25/1.7, and I agree with your conclusions.
Micro-4/3 has in-body lateral color corrections, but the Sigma/Metabones combo doesn't send a profile to the body. I suspect that's why the Panasonic wins in that regard (IIRC the GH5 does do lateral color compensation in its video pipeline). It would be interesting to compare in RAW on the BMPCC4K and see if the tables are turned.
The Sigma is reasonably flare-resistant on its own. The speedbooster adds an additional 4 optical groups (8 reflective surfaces), and like death and taxes, flare from additional surfaces is unavoidable. I wouldn't use that combo outdoors, but then, that's not the purpose of an effective f/1.3 lens.
I think you may have a bad copy, because the CAF is way better on the 10-25mm, almost like the A7III.
Awesome comparison. You made up my mind for me
love the Sigma + Speed Booster combo, Great video Gerald!!
good stuff !!! as usual solid content in a good container!
Thanks! 😃
like allways ! the most usefull video on youtube for filmakers ! thanks!
Great video. I'm primarily a m43 photographer that is doing more and more video. I love the lens for its 1.7 for the low light photography work I do. It's going to make life much easier.
With video work, it won't be the perfect solution. But it will be more than good enough for the work I'm doing. To me, speedboosters softens an image. I can always tell. But that could work for you.
It's great to have options and love the Panasonic made the lens.
Did you said afc is working with that metabones + sigma combo? I thought afc is useless with that combo
I’ve been looking at videos online about the Leica 10-25mm and this video stands out as the only negative one, and despite some interesting and potentially valid complaints it also describes problems that other videos do not, like the autofocus being worse on the Leica than on the Sigma. I keep coming back to this video and wondering if Gerald got a dud, or if a number of problems were fixed via firmware updates to either the lens itself or the GH5 after-the-fact.
I also think the Leica 10-25 has a much better argument for it now there is a matching Leica 25-50 - the promise of two similar-sized relatively small native MFT lenses with a similar beautiful image that can cover all your focal length ranges (equivalent coverage of 20-100mm on full frame sensors) is really enticing for anyone who wants to run and gun with the greatest convenience and flexibility. The similar weight of the Leica lenses (690g and 654g respectively) means swapping them on a gimbal is somewhat plausible. The nearest equivalent set would be Sigma 18-35 and Sigma 50-100, which would cover the full frame equivalent of 25.56mm - 49.7mm and 71-142mm if using a x0.71 speed booster, which leaves a big gap uncovered in between and has 5.56mm less coverage on the wide end - which may be enough not to need a separate wide angle lens if using the Leica depending on an individual’s needs. Also, the Sigma 50-100 at 1490g is almost double the weight of the 810g Sigma 18-35, which makes it more unwieldly to use and difficult to substitute on a gimbal.
I think the only seeming weakness of the Leica lens is the autofocus and the lack of OIS, and the GH6 mitigates both of those issues by improving the autofocus as well as the IBIS. It would be interesting to see a current day video on the 10-25 and 25-50 Leica lenses on the new Panasonic GH6 camera and see where they land now with all the updates
Native lenses always autofocus better than adapter mounted lenses, so I'm so confused why Geralds 10-25 focused THAT poorly lol. I've been rocking the 18-35 sigma for 2 years and I never trust the autofocus, whereas anything that's a native lense is actually not too horrible for autofocus when using it properly
@@lilzohan7078 I actually pulled the trigger and purchased the Leica 10-25mm and the 25-50mm in the last couple of months since I left that last comment, and while they were expensive I can say it was the best DSLR-related set of purchases I have ever made by a signficiant margin. They are so much smoother, easier to use, with better contrast and colors out of the box than the Sigma 18-35. I haven't tried them on my old GH5 yet, but autofocus on the GH6 with these lenses is reliable from my shoots so far and reduces my need for a second person when making videos. I highly recommend if you can stomach the price!
@@ryanprussin I borrowed the 25-50 and it's been a lot of fun so far! I still might return it but we will see, it's worked well for me at a wedding and at a business shoot
Can't agree with your focus comments re. video. I have this lens mounted on my own GH5, and after some focus settings revisions can get this lens to auto-focus quite nicely. Just my first-hand experience.
Indeed, same experience with my GH5.
Seems like you nailed it. Great review.
This is a thorough review. Nice job!