What NO ONE ELSE Will Tell You About BOA
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Elliott gives his opinion on the BOA system for Ski Boots and gives his review of the K2 Mindbender 120 Ski Boot, Fischer Ranger 120 Ski Boot, and the Atomic HAWX Prime S 120 Ski Boot
0:00 The Lange Shadow and My Lange Lx120
0:21 My Opinion on the BOA for Ski Boots
2:25 K2 Mindbender 120 LV
3:52 Fischer Ranger Pro 130 GW
5:31 Atomic HAWX Prime 120 S
That "little metal" does break. I towed my brother for hours once his cable went. Thanks god we were close to resort.
Woah jeeze
After skiing most my life in Nordica boots I bought the K2 Recon 120. I couldn't believe it how soft that boot was, want to return it after my first ski day, but couldn't after reading the fine print, story short.... I love that boot now, comfortable, no cold feet and it surprisingly delivers a quality feel. Sometimes you are surprised what changes can do, it may take a few days to get used to something NEW! They are also a light weight boot. Tried on the Atomic Hawk, that was another favorite choice for me as well.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Awesome! They didn't have the recon in my size, but I will circle around and see if I can find a pair to test. Thanks for the tip!
i love to ski moguls but don't want to spend a ton. What's a good boot?
Totally with you on the Atomic boots. I have the Ultra 120 S instead of the Prime, but had the same issue, which the spoiler totally fixed.
Oh that's great to hear! I love hearing from people that actually owned them vs the shop telling me "it'll be finnnnnne" lol. Thanks for the comment. Appreciate it.
I had a boa liner in a black diamond boot from like 10 years ago and it was awesome, until it started cutting through the tongue, I'd like to see someone bring that back if they figure out the wear issue
I have a pair of nice road bike shoes with the BOA system. It works pretty well for that light weight application. When I first saw the BOA system on ski boots, I immediately questioned its durability and how it would do in extreme cold conditions. Based on an earlier comment, those were reasonable concerns. I definitely need the tension fine tuning that individual buckles allow. I can't use spoilers because my ankles are really skinny and then my calf muscles blow up like an ugly tumor.
I don't fit comfortably in almost all ski boots. My feet flatten out when standing so I have discovered I need a large toe box. I was in heaven when I tried on a pair of Tecnica Zero G Tour. That model had the really cush liners. I knew right then that was the boot I needed. I eventually picked an early model of Zero G Tour Guide for $350. Basic mechanical buckles, 120 stiffness and the advanced lace up liners. So glad I got the better liners. I still had the toe box stretched and added some mid range foot beds. I have a pair of randonee skis that I use occasionally for short journeys so its nice to have a touring boot that crosses over.
Again, I appreciate your observations.
Right on! Thanks for commenting and for watching!
Also I want to say it add's like $100 to the boots which are already pricey. It seems like just an accessory to tack on and make the boots more expensive. Maybe others like them but they weren't for me.
I am just grateful I found a boot that actually fit me comfortably after so many years. I am a thrifty and patient shopper. I have never spent more than $350 for any of my ski gear/clothing. Except for my M6/Griffon ski set up that I paid the local shop $750 for. I got those skis/bindings in the spring before they were even available on the market.@@RicketySkiReviews
I have used last 10 years Nordica boots but those started to feel so wrong on my feet. Bought Salomon shift pro 130 and I couldn't be more happy with them. Definitely worth trying and they have also 120 flex model if 130 is too much. 130 flex model seems to be more light weighted though
Yeah the flex's definitely don't seem to be quite uniform across the board.
I actually tried a pair of Nordicas and Salomons the other day, so there should be a part 2 soon!
I have these in the "130" but still find myself fighting forwards-backwards balance issues off-piste. Maybe I need to use those liner inserts also.
worth testing!
During covid/supply chain issues I settled for Nordica Speed Machines. Those are good boots! Fit well. Boots are the hardest piece of equipment for me to get and be happy with.
i always want to try the pro machine (narrower version) but can't find my size.
Very cool thanks for the recommendation! Actually based on this comment I went and tried the Nordica Cruise 120 today and should have a video up about it next week.
@@RicketySkiReviews I ended up with much softer boots than I realized at the time. But I have found I compensated for the softness with better balance awareness. Like I said, I settled due to the difficulty of finding anything that fits. These days I'm not sure if a stiffer boot is what I want or need.
Totally agree, I always think I need a stiff boot until the end of a long day! New Video should be up first thing in the morning tomorrow!
I hear you on the flex standard thing. Bought a pair of Atomic Hawx Prime 115 xtd’s. Thought i was upgrading from my 2016 Atomic Waymaker 100 carbons. Not even close. Hawx prime was way softer and they flexed inward instead of straight. So frustrating. Gonna stick with my waymakers.
omg, I went from race boots to all mountain boots (or whatever you want to call them) holy smokes, the numbers don't line up at all.
Since I am so used to snowboard boots i was really interested in trying these new boa ski boots. I tried on k2 recon 120 boa and the solomon 110 boa. In both cases it did not blow me away. I mean if i had a good fitting buckle boot on one foot vs a boa boot on the other you cant tell the difference. The k2 120 boa actually had more pressure on the outside of my foot. I then tried on the k2 recon 120 buckle and felt amazing. At the end of the day. Try on boots. See what fits. In my experience boa was not for me fit wise.
Totally agree, I think if they feel good that's great, but I don't think they're an "automatic upgrade" the way I've seen them advertised in shops.
I am currently looking at some snowboard boots and 99% fall out because of BOA. Never understood why they fit this. Just make normal shoelaces and you have basically infinite adjustment and a system that is easy to adjust... Mayve this is why - you should buy a new boot every 3 season because the BOA froze and you had to cut it open ^^
I actually use the Mindbender 130 since 4 years. I tried like 8 different boots before settling on the Mindbender. I use it with spoilers aswell. For me, it's a great alround boot to puah on the slopes or to tour. But i never raced etc.
The metal parts a working good, but they looked worn pretty quickly because the colour gets worn off on the contact surfaces.
Totally agree! Like laces have worked for Hockey Skates and Ice Skates for Decades! And you don't see them switching the high end skates over.
You tried very different kind of boots, some with walk mode and some without. I would say if you are going to go with a walk mode boot you should try going into some of the newer hybrid/touring boots. Last year I changed to a Tecnica zero g tour Scout and they're awesome. No more carrying 2 kind of boots around for touring and for piste, I have shift bindings and my skins in the pack so if I see something worth skinning up for or if in a run down I got carried away and went too low, no problem. My wife skis in the Atomic Hawx Prime XTD and they're also great. You should give those a try if you liked the Hawx Prime S or try the Ultra XTD if you want a narrower last.
actually
Great Recommendation Thank You! I do think the Walk mode has a place. I went to Chamonix last winter and thought it would make alot of sense there. Or I have friends who do photography for ski mountains, and the amount of time they stand perched on the side of the hill seems like a good use case.
As far as what I tried, I just tried anything they would let me that were in my flex and in my size. I don't know that I'm really looking for walk mode, but thought I would mention it and just talk about how it felt since I haven't had it before.
Very insightful comment, thank you for watching!
I got into the Zero G Tour Guide a few years ago. By far the best boot I have had my whole life. The liner in the Tour Guide is unbelievably warm for how thin it is. I am glad I chose to step up to the Guide. I might just buy another pair for the future when I need to replace the ones I have.
My feet is narrow, you think ultra xrd would fit well?
I don't understand using BOA for the two bottom buckles ... those are the least important buckles in the system! I run my toes buckle with minimum buckle closure pressure. Exactly what problem are they trying to solve with BOA?
That's my same thought too, maybe it helps some people with fit? but it didn't do much for me.
I have seen after digging through forums that it's supposed to cut back on weight for Backcountry Skiers, but I have to think it's an overall marginal amount.
I have not tried the boa on ski boots... And just from your description I think i am with you -- On skis I would def want to keep the buckles, as I tighten them differently in different parts of the boot. When it comes to snowboarding though, I do have Boa and had it forever. And I prefer it to normal laces, the reasons are the following..
>> As you ride and the boot warms up, it gets a bit loose, and with the Boa it takes just a few clicks (even over your pants) to tighten it. You can tighten it while riding. Or sitting on the lift. or literally at any moment. On the other hand, when i tried to tighten the laces, if they are wet or frozen it could become an operation, and i would be questioning if i even want to take a break to handle that. : ) I have the last Flow Helios model (before it was sold to Nidecker) they have boa for both top and bottom, so i can tighten them differently. And I don't think I can go back to laces.
>> Another cool thing is that if your feet are tired or sore -- say it's the beginning of season, and it's your first day or something -- you can unbuckle the disc over your pants, and let your feet rest while on the lift. Then as you get to the top. Click back and few spins and off you go...
>> I used to work in a Snowboard Shop for many years... The steel rope/string ... if I remember correctly was supposed to withstand half a ton of jerk force (at least the marketing materials said so). So I don't think the string itself would break, but I can see other parts could... I was always nervous about the disc itself. But as mentioned, had it for as long as i can remember, and never had a single issue. (knocking on wood)
Great point! I used to have the DC snowboard boots with the air pump, and they were nice for getting that bit of extra snugness as well
When they feel compelled to reinvent the mousetrap..😅
I love that saying, I will definitely be using it going forward!
Well said!
I know what you mean....but better is still better. Can't wait to try the BOa. Sounds like it gives you a more even wrap around your foot.
Except they did reinvent the mouse trap and they work way better.....😂
The Atomic boot is nice, I bought a pair for my Nephew for his graduation. But I can't wear them...don't know what's wrong w/my feet, but most boots make my arches hurt like daggers. Been a problem ever since i had the Lange XLRs when they first came out - once the liner became packed, they were destined for the trash bin (2 to 3 years max).
Lange is my mainstay...but really want to try the Fischer boots.
A suggestion for another video.....have you tried Leki poles and their trigger system? I love it, the only update to the ski pole that I like (other than adjustable poles) since the early 80s...oh, and the carbon poles too...but I still use my aluminum as i'm used to the feel.
Awesome! Yes good boots are so hard to find and then when they wear out it's a bit heart braking. I've had the same thing with Technica historically. Like I know they're nice boots but they just don't quite match up with my feet. But going to try them again and see. Maybe the boots have changed (or maybe my feet have!).
I actually talk about the Leki Poles and Trigger system in one of my older videos!
Here's the link with the time code baked in at 2:00:
ruclips.net/video/SuXeWDjtssM/видео.htmlsi=YoA24If4M22O3xQw&t=120
@@RicketySkiReviews but did you try the trigger system before? I’ve always found the traps a bit cumbersome and waited for a good innovation. Scott’s plastic grips of the 80s just didn’t do it, but this Leki trigger system is easy and efficient. Snap in click out. It has my whole hearted approval And the poles aren’t all that more than regular.
I had these on Specialized bicycle shoes.. top of the line... very difficult to loosen.. I ripped them off and bought a grommet kit and use shoelaces....
Wow! That's brutal. Hopefully the new grommet and Laces fit well!
My chicken legs need a spoiler can't ski without them and i love getting a little more forward pressure too. which makes me wonder about forward lean in boots i think K2 are a little more upright (or used to be) to adapt to the new freeride style
Totally! They're a game changer, and I'm surprised I don't see them talked about more.
Dalbello Krypton with wrap intuition liners FTW! By far my favorite flex and fit. I hate the feeling of tounges moving to the side and not with me
Great recommendation thank you! Dalbello didn't have my size when I went in but I will look for a pair to try next time!
You’ve tried a lot of lightweight boots, excluding the Lange stuff. I urge you to try out a technica Mach 1 MV
Awesome, I will give them a try, thanks for the recommendation!
I also have the 130 mach 1. Really like them. Liner Quality is pretty good. Flex feels pretty true to me. Definitely a lot stiffer than my Nordicas cruise 120.
These comments will be featured in Tomorrow's Video Where I tested these boots! Thanks again for the Recommendation!
Do you have any experience with the zip fit liners?
Great product!!!! not cheap, but they last forever. Had a pair for the past three seasons and still look good and feel great. First few times I heat them up with a blow drier to soften the cork paste and mold them to my feet (just need to put them on, insert them on the boot shell, tight them snugly and keep them on until they cool off) now I do it once a season. The shell I use is the Salomon S-Pro 120 and they are wearing out already, but not the Zip-fits.... if you have the cash go for it... you will not regret it.... I will greatly recommend you to find a shop that sales them and can fit you on the proper one. Depending on your foot and the shell you are using they can get you on the one that will best fit you and the shell, don't buy them online. Also don't be intimidated about what some people say that are hard to put on and off. Yes, it can get a bit tricky the first few times that you do it but, you will find out the little tricks that make ease to get in and out; one big NO NO! is to try putting them on when the shell is cold and stiff. Hope this helps!!! good luck!!!
I don't! My first impressions are that the liners are more than I usually buy last years boots for, and I historically have not been a fan of lace up liners but that all being said;
Boots are the most important piece of equipment and I think if they help people get a fit, maybe that's beneficial. I know back in my racing days, people would spend upwards of $500 just for custom boot fitting.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around it, but if it works, I can't think of a better piece of equipment to splurge on (besides maybe your helmet).
@JJRodpro with zipfit do you put liner on, then slide into boot?
I'm pretty sure that's the way you're supposed to put all boots on, but I never do that. I always keep liner in the boot and just shove my foot in there. Can that be done with a zipfit?
@@carterfan80It can be done but it’s not ideal. You need to be able to properly lace the liner up, and with it in the boot it can be quite difficult. I’m lucky in that I use a Dalbello 3 piece boot and a boot horn to help me. I also use a heated boot bag so everything is that more flexible in the cold.
Yes... I put on the liners first, get them nice and snug with the laces and then insert them on the shell... some people uses a boot horn but, believe me! it gets easier and easier every time you do it. keeping the shells warm are a must though. So as someone else suggested getting one of those heated boot bags is a wise investment not just for those with Zip Fits but for any boot; big difference when you put on boots that are warm vs. frozen. @@carterfan80
I really love multi zone boa systems for snowboard boots, but don't see the value for ski boots, buckles seem fine.
Agreed, It's weird that they've been around on snowboard boots for so long, and just now suddenly there's a big surge to have them on every ski boot as an option.
Before you pull the trigger on the Atomics, you should try the non- BOA Salomon S-Pro Alpha 130 and the Nordica Speedmachine 130. I tried on the S-Pro and that thing feels seriously dialed in. Haven't tried the Speedmachine, but great reviews. So ,the same shop here in town that caters to racers and has pretty much given up on Lange except for the RS, swears by the BOA system... says it's been tested on the WC circuit. Personally, it kind of reminds me too much of the old rear entry cable system on boots circa 1980's-90's. I asked the tech what if the dial snaps off from a high inside edge angle? Answer: It's connected and can be snapped back on. Also, he said, it'd take a real hard hit to do that. I don't know. Seems kind of gimmiky and designed for folks too lazy to buckle their boots. Intersting about the Fischer Rangers-- sounds like the fit's kind of like the Shadows where the shape isn't totally flat but rather a bit convex. Weird.
Any links to the WC bit? I couldn't find anything via Google. Yeah, with the rangers, I suppose they did as far as the way you're feet rest, probably a bit more distinct than the Shadows.
Great Comments, thanks for watching!
@@RicketySkiReviews Neither could I. They guy at the local shop here said they'll be on the WC circuit this year along with another guy who commented on this FB group I'm a member of. it's called Elite Skiing and there was a thread about the new BOA system. I commented how it seemed gimmiky and I didn't see the rationale for trying to reinvent the wheel meaning the traditional 4 buckle overlap design. He replied it's a performance improvement and echoed what the tech at the shop said.
@@RicketySkiReviews Atomic has been testing and developing a BOA race boot. They are even testing boots with BOA on the cuff.
I interesting tid bit Atomic is killing the buckle versions of the boots that have BOA on them. They're not selling this year.
Not to say that a company can't make great boots and skis and accessories, but when you do one thing, you probably do it better. I think that's the Lange advantage. But people have different insteps and certain brands just work better than others... like I would recommend all the flatter feet in Lange, but all the high instep people in something like Technica, and somewhere in between maybe a Nordica etc.
That's funny because I always heard the opposite. Flat feet for technica and high in step for lange😂😂
I have really flat feet i'm in Tecnica. Mach 1 130. Best fitting boots I've ever had.
Agreed, I thought Lange boots were awesome but when I went to get custom fitted, the LV Lange boots were tight enough, unlike many others, but were extremely painful in several pressure points that weren’t fixable. I ended up fitting the Atomic Hawks Ultras the best, and really like them!
@carter I tried the Mach 1 120's today, I should have a video up on it next week!
@sokolva That's awesome to hear, nice to hear from real people who ski on the Hawx and like them!
I agree! I've been on Lange for like 20+ years, and they've always just been the boot that fits the best. But my LX's are worn down, and I thought it would be a good opportunity to see what's out there. I've been pleasantly surprised by the build quality on most of them and really surprised by the Atomic Boots (which historically never fit me)
But there's no denying Lange's Legacy.
Great comment.
problem is that if it doesn't work for you , it doesn't .... some have sensitive feets...
Totally true!
@RicketySkiReviews: You might try to Technica Cochise...
Great, thanks for the recommendation! I'll see if I can find a pair
Lange Shadow is good on fast run. Not very easy to tell just try on.
Totally, but just from the try on these didn't feel like a good fit for my type of foot. Would love to test on snow if I get the chance!
lange world' ha ha', i would like to know about', forward and back movement. with boas', and to advanced' skiers', is it worth the extra money', thanks rick', carve it up! peace
I didn't think so, but if you're curious and able to try, it's worth putting on your feet, may fit your foot better than mine.
I prefer the traditional buckles. Didn't feel any irregularity with the boa on the flex, but did not having less control over individual boot buckling, especially since I have different size feet.
Why the F would they put canting in a boot?, IMO every boot should be neutral (no canting medial or lateral), so that they can be customized if necessary to fit that skier, first up with aftermarket insoles, and then canting wedges if need be.
Agreed, I can't imagine why either, but maybe there's a good reason.
@@RicketySkiReviews I would be interested to know.
I feel like they are trying to sell something 'new' to get more money, especially how easy those boa snap off, btw Salomon has 3 way adjustable instep buckle and sits much better)
Totally agree. And great recommendation thank you! I actually recently tested a Salomon pro boot, but the boa made it tighten in a weird way on the top of my foot, so I need to find a Non-Boa version to compare.
Everyone I asked on the mountain who had Boa ski boot
Loved them Just saying …..
I stopped listening after you said that the BOA system was "so gimmicky." BOA has been around for at least twenty years! My Black Diamond Factor ski boots have a BOA system and I bought those in 2009! It's one thing to say you like BOA or not, but to call them a "gimmick" is a bit of a stretch. You kind of remind me of the old grumps at my ski hill who are still skiing their 210 cm skinny skis and think fat skis (i.e. anything over 75 mm underfoot) are "just a fad."
Lol, I mean I am definitely and old grump, but if you continued watching I talk about how the system is 20 years old, I said that I saw them back in 2003 on snowboard boots. You may have wanted to listen a bit longer, because I agree it's an old system, I'm just skeptical that it's a necessary system, and not just the ski companies trying to "upsell" skiers.
But I could just be cynical (or maybe scenile!) lol
Thanks for watching anyways!
Great content ❤ Where do people find your email?
ricketyskireviews@gmail.com
It's also listed on my channel but it's a weird spot.
Thanks so much for watching and glad you're enjoying the content!