If people are honest with themselves about Kakashi’s trajectory before he got the sharingan… it makes sense that he would’ve grown to be insanely powerful without having his chakra zapped in half.
facts u can tell by his speed increase throughout wa going from kcm1 levels to kcm2 levels to kcm2 sage mode levels of speed in a short time. so obviously kakashi who trained for 16 years would be far faster and more powerful
Something that I love about Post Naruto Kakashi is that his fighting style has him reversing the elemental strength/weaknesses. He uses fire to over power water and earth to protect against lightning. I want more like this from him.
I haven't finished the video, but Hashirama has 100% of Hashirama cells, so that's a casual dub for him . Im disappointed in Hashirama cells not being able to stand up against the GREATEST NINJA ALIVE, but I'm not surprised. 😆 Kakashi for the dub was obvious since the beginning.
@Alex-fe5fz If I remember correctly, Sasuke was teaching team 7 a jutsu that required a high level of chakra control. Sasuke struggled to draw parallels and couldn't find the right words to guide them in the right direction. I think that made Sasuke appreciate Kakashi more now that he was in his shoes. Basically, Sasuke is the kind of guy to tell a homeless person to just get money. Being powerful doesn't intrinsically make you a good teacher.
@@theprofessor2817 Kakashi was a much better prodigy than Sasuke was, heck he was a jonin at 13. It makes sense to why Kakashi was good at teaching because he just was good at everything
Kakashi losing his Sharingan is kind of like how Wolverine loses his Admantine skeleton. In Wolverine’s case all his stats increase because his natural healing factor isn’t having to fight the metal poisoning of the Adamantine. In Kakashi’s case his stamina increases even further without his chakra being drained by the Sharingan, but also that he still remembers all the Jutsu he learned from the Sharingan aside from Raikiri and kekai genkai exclusives.
@@Sage447no he can't bro if he could he wouldn't die but he died and I only know this from Deadpool and wolverine because I don't really know marvel but I know he isnt immortal
He actually did regenerate from a drop of blood. It happened in the comics. You can’t just erase history because you say so dumbass. Not how things work.
MASSIVE W . ive been waiting for this video for a while and its goated. im suprised the comment section isnt full of hashirama fans (yet) cause if this was a poll hashirama fans would be yappin
Honestly fully agree, really find it weird when people try to act like Hashirama is still some untouchable god if you're not literally an otsutsuki, or Naruto/Sasuke/Madara/Obito with six paths chakra. Though on the point about chakra reserves at 17:15ish... I don't think Kakashi was referring to the entirety of KCM2 Naruto's chakra with that 100x statement, WA Kakashi seemed surprised by the amount of chakra KCM1 and KCM2 Naruto each had. So I think it's more reasonable that Rasenshuriken training arc comment was talking about 2 Tails Naruto from the Kazekage rescue arc.
Bro barely squabbled with a koji clone that wasn’t even trying and suddenly he’s wanked to jigen level 😂 These kakashi and tobirama fans are another breed I tell ya
@ Koji’s “important mission” was to make sure jigen gets packed up And konoha was enemy No-1 of jigen at the time It was an itachi situation all over again Except this time, koji only wanted the leaf safe to deal with jigen/isshiki afterwards
@ Koji lamenting the fact that he didn’t get the scroll + calling Kakashi a risk to himself BOTH IN HIS OWN HEAD means that what he said is how he actually felt
@ Yeah a risk to the secrecy of his plans.. If Kara found out what that mission was because of kakashi causing a ruckus, then it’d be the end of the road If he felt like it and killed kakashi, then Kara would just develop more suspicion because delta would press him as to why And he’d have 0 Allabies So the best option there was to leave the scroll and kakashi ALONE and let the leaf progress as planned While blaming the info loss on the guy who caused the crash AKA victor Such a minor interaction cannot be used to infer anything tangible
It’s more of the boruto power scaling that is ruining the story after Madara they fell off and made kaguya and they need to increase power levels more into boruto and imo they have done a bad job making characters that already reached there peak scale way more powerful (Sakura going from useless to more powerful then all of Naruto prior to boruto is just plain cringe
@@Eagle20mids If its because of Boruto then Kakashi or Sakura shouldn't be a topic. Because as far as I know (and I have read all of boruto) They haven't done anything in the series yet. No fights. just talks
@@SamuelQuaye-zs4uc my argument is even if they seem more powerful, older characters get scaled up unless there’s outliers and incremental improvements only, once they reach a plateau kakashi can’t go from losing to pain to one shoting hashirama like they want that’s not scaling that’s just fiction how ever sauske could as he was always meant to but Sakura makes all feat’s irrelevant according to them as they claim she can solo the shippuden verse now so all feats in general are not real unless scale up for other characters is introduced
@@Eagle20mids Exactly. It doesn’t make sense from a story perspective. If Kakashi had that much potential, it should have been showcased better in the manga. My instinct tells me they wanted to keep him relevant in Boruto, so they had to power him up. In my opinion, his abilities should have plateaued at best, slightly above Tobirama. Which is still crazy. But since everybody got a power boost, yeah it seems right for him to be so strong
Frankly, I've never found this match-up to be particularly interesting due to the lack of a narrative theme behind it (unlike with something like Minato vs Kakashi). But hey, it's a Kakashi video made by you, so I might as well help to you fight the algorithm jutsu ;) Here's one more quote from Sakura Hiden worth knowing: "A Tailed Beast drug. The results had been superb. Just as Kido ordered, assassins-abilities enhanced by the Tailed Beast drug-had thrown a kunai next to the daimyo, lightly slashed at the advisor, evaded the pursuing guard ninja, and fled the scene quite admirably. Kido had then used those attacks as a pretext to secure a budget increase for the Anbu. We can use the Tailed Beast drug. Kido could feel the power of it. And this meant two things: they could use it for the dosed human beings and for political strategy. But Hatake Kakashi was a serious opponent, one he must not let his guard down around. Kakashi might have had his eyes sleepily half-closed most of the time, but his intuition was sharp when it counted. After all, he already had former Anbu member Sai at work."
All I'm saying is one of these guys boxed with a guy who boxed with a guy who can create dimensions with potentially stars or even universes in them and the other has not, sooo...
@@themiddleman3060 Madara gained Hashirama cells, the Rinnegan, Sage Mode, The Ten Tails, the God Tree and a third eye since his battle with Hashirama and was still weaker than Kaguya.
Quick question why do power scalers not do the whole common sense thing and reach so bad like im not necessarily disagree with the viseo but thwyre are times in all manga where one must be able to determine whether something is a good scene for storytelling vs a status quo the author ia trying to set some of his points tell me he cant tell the difference
@@darryelphillip5219 i dont really get the reaching part. all were doing is making logical conclusions based on facts , statements, feats, and things that are proven to be true. for example if you were given an equation and it asked whats 2+2? you would easily be able to come to a factually correct conclusion based on given information which is 2+2 in this case.
@derekseago9647 the part your missing is authors jobs are to tell the best story they arent mathmaticians, physics majors or powerscalers when they draw something they could and more times than not dont care if this holds up with the series current power scale they do it becquse it moves the story forward yet u guys will take simple statements meant for simple dramatic effect and gas the shit outta it ie The kakashi greatest teacher bit at the end is dumb if a little common sense is applied Easy example currently in TBV the author is portraying boruto as the strongest and having surpassed naruto and sasuke. Now leta do some quick math Boruto is momoshinki vessel - momo with 3 rinnegan, 2 byakugan, half narutos chackra lost to naruto and sasuke both fatigued before the fight Naruto and sasuke full power < jigen Jigen < code Code < tbv boruto Yet this on a PURE math front makes no sense as boruto is literally a genetic copy of mom with one less byakugan no rinnegan and no half of naruto chackra So why is he portrayed this way even without activating karma because the author wants too and nothing more
Haven't seen the video yet; just wanted to help you in the algorithm and thank ya for giving me something to listen to while I take care of some errands.
Why is it that most of the people disagreeing with your takes don't elaborate on why? If they make claims, they don't sight sources. Broad statements like "Hashirama slams" is no an argument, people.
@@derekseago9647 Although, I agree that Hashirama fans are ill informed at times. My comment wasn't about them. I was addressing people's inability of debating properly.
@@Breeze06 i get your point. and either its because they are trolling, super young and immature, or just believe in their own personal perception without realizing the underlying biases behind it. either way there are some mature ones
The problem with this is, that its such a stupidly obvious example of dumb powercreep that it hurts my head. Kakashi being this strong just doesnt feel right.
@@sageofthickcalves Im pretty sure that people who "disagree" with such things dont disagree on an intellectual level but rather dislike it so much, that they disagree on an emotional level. Just like a disagree with Otsutsuki being canon. Intellectualy i obviously know, that Kaguya happened in the manga and that the Boruto-Mange exists, but i hate it so much, that i call it "non-canon". To me it doesnt exist.
@@TheFakeBriskeh Kakashi implies he can pulverize it, but the rubble would go everywhere and exacerbate the problem, plus it “probably” has metal in it (according to Kakashi). So the best course of action would be to have someone like Choji come life and carry it instead of blowing it up. So this doesn’t mean that neither of them could blow it up, but rather that lifting it would be tough alone. We just don’t know how much it weighs so we can’t calc it.
If we’re being perfectly honest and we hypothetically say we are a Kage level ninja in the naruto world. If we had knowledge on all of kakashis and hashirama feats, chakra levels, speed, jutsu potency ect… Can we honestly say we would be more nervous going up against kakashi than a more than half of kurama chakra level hashirama that held down the f**ing 10 tails.
My opinion before watching the vid….Kakashi absolutely stomps…..if we can say he scales to the other 4 Kage from the Boruto era. The power cliffing in Boruto is insane. The Boruto Era Kage in terms of raw stats stomp everyone in Shippuden as they scale to Kinshiki and Momoshiki who themselves scale above Kaguya by a noticeable amount. If Kakashi in any way scales close to them, he stomps Hashirama who scales concretely below Juubito. I know people would say hax and matchups matter, and they do if the hax can close the gap, but the gap between Kakashi and Hashirama is bigger than the gap between Juubito and Kaguya, so no amount of Hashirama Cells is saving him from this whooping
@Nphynite Kinshiki beat Chojuro instantly and Kurotsuchi surprise attacked him. Momoshiki was more so annoyed by Darui and Gaara by the manga panel and looks straight unbothered by the anime. They do not “scale to” any Otsutsuki. Don’t get me wrong, I love Boruto and most of the time I’m defending its characters to Boruto haters, but you can’t just say “they scale here” and have it make sense. Gaara (who by your logic is above Kaguya) became bedridden after sealing Urashiki (canon arc), while base Jiraiya was able to react to even his fused form, far after he’d stopped “playing around” the whole damn arc. When y’all make such an unbelievably insurmountable gap in power between Naruto and Boruto’s characters, you completely trash all continuity and consistency of the entire universe. These stories happen in the SAME UNIVERSE, which means SAME RULES. So what, base Jiraiya = base Jigen because Jiraiya = Gaara = Kakashi = base Koji = base Jigen? That is an absolutely absurd jump in logic, and ignores plethoras of details and circumstances that notoriously define Naruto scaling, meaning it should define Boruto scaling as well. Using “power cliffing” as an explanation just shows you don’t actually know what you’re talking about in terms of scaling, as you’re essentially directly admitting that the scaling doesn’t make sense, and that it just is what it is, when there are other perfectly good ways to interpret these characters that preserves the general Boruto > Naruto scaling while also not completely dismissing the entirety of the universe’s foundational characters and rules. One small example for some thought, maybe Kinshiki actually scales quite a bit below Kaguya, around ten tails Madara. This doesn’t contradict his fight with Sasuke, as Sasuke was noticeably fatigued and holding back, he then does get sealed by Chojuro and Kurotsuchi, but Sasuke (still holding back) was instrumental to that. Finally, Kinshiki himself is never stated to be superior to Kaguya. Momoshiki himself isn’t either, rather the two of them combined, as Kaguya specially wrote of the two of them as a duo. From this, you: 1. Provide a solid foundation of Boruto’s scaling as a story, as near the peak of Shippuden’s power, not some arbitrary, “above Kaguya” level. 2. Properly incorporate side characters into fights in a way that doesn’t rely on “power cliffing” to explain and instead uses delicate situational circumstances that close power gaps. And 3. Don’t cause countless contradictions based off your own scaling methods (ex. Jiraiya in the Urashiki arc) that result in huge snowballing arguments, leaps in logic, and effectively forever blocking out newer side characters from ever being relevant without once again relying on “power cliffing,” which is lazy and incredibly inconsistent. Also I really hate the equating of base Koji and base Jigen. While yes absolutely you can say base Jigen scales above base adult Naruto, that was a 100% chakra Jigen + a ten tails chakra amp. The Jigen that Koji fought was a 10% Jigen, which is EXPLICITLY stated by Amado himself. The narrative wants you to know that Jigen is weakened, and that this is the ONLY opportunity they have to pull out Isshiki, BECAUSE he is weakened. They literally give you a percentage, that rarely ever happens in Naruto/Boruto. Obviously you can argue that 10% chakra ≠ 10% power output, which is true sometimes but is a case by case argument. Even so, Urashiki states several times that Sasuke still hasn’t gained his power back from being drained, and that his movements are slow and weak (aka stats being directly weakened via chakra drain). Jigen, so is actively trying to preserve his life, is not gonna use the same level of power he did against Koji as he did against Naruto, and Jigen literally says right before going into V2 that Koji was actually trying to kill him, meaning there was some doubt initially. Anyways, y’all gotta stop throwing every damn Boruto era character to ten tails Madara-Kaguya levels and above without taking a second and actually asking yourself if it even makes a shred of sense, are there different interpretations, or leaps in logic. Swear the next thing I’m gonna start seeing going around is “Shojoji STOMPS Jubbidara” or something.
This is the issue that every shonen has, regardless of how powerful a character from the past was, if that character is not involved in the present era he will get powered creep to oblivion, realistically both Hashirama and Madara shouldn't be reachable by regular characters if we go by lore, since they are both "gods", but when the premise of your manga is that all characters have to fight alien/gods, then even the weakest character that is able to block or land a punch to a new villian will have to be stronger than anything from Naruto
WHERE TF IS RETSUDEN KAKASHI WHEN THESE ABOVE JIGEN, NARUTO AND SASUKE LVL ANDRIODS ARE HERE Amado's all like "the leaf needs me to contain Kawaki since he surpasses even the hokage".... little does amado know, Retsuden Scailing Kakashi was conviniently on the craziest vacation in history of all time while the entire leaf was risking their lives against Issiki, Code and Eda, so he's already wrong there. If only retsuden kakashi weren't on his crazy vacation, Jigen would have actually died on a 3v1 Kashin Koji: we can't fight Jura yet, he's too strong, if only there was someone who conveniently scales to the plot
I never liked the idea of Hashirama being the strongest Ninja alive during Shippuden. Hiruzen was stated to be a genius, surpassed BOTH Hashirama and Tobirama during his run as the third Hokage and being called the "God of Shinobi". This was all stated in Part 1 and even shown when Orochimaru resurrected the 1st and 2nd. Shippuden came along, and everything became Naruto and Uchiha fest. A lot of stuff was either disregarded, forgotten, or overall retconned.
I get that making a mud wall around the village is a great feat but how does it matter how long the mud wall stood. Was it ever established that if an earth user makes a wall, the wall needs the person's constand chakra to keep the wall up? I thought once you create a wall its done. You could go rest
From my understanding it was actively being attacked during that time and Kakashi was not only maintaining the walls but also transforming parts of it into quartz walls and back to resist lighting jutsu including ninja tech versions of his own shinden.
A mud wall has to be maintained by funneling chakra into it or it’ll crumble. It was also being attacked with canons and jutsu, and he was actively repairing it
@sageofthickcalves The same kakashi who couldn't even chase and kill deidara or zabuza lmao and that's with sharingan, hokage kakashi doesn't even have that.
@ no, not the same Kakashi. The one who’s stated to be 100x stronger than he was in the War Arc when he was casually boxing up 4 level 2 bijuu simultaneously. If you had watched the video you’d know these things
Due to his regenerative powers and wood style, but no one was able to become another Hashirama, not even Danzo or Yamato were able to achieve this feat. Their skills ended on High Jonin/Low Kage level
can you pls do a make a video about naruto kyubi amp vs 5th gate rock lee pls I think this fight should be more debated it would amazing seeing you making a video of it
4:09 its pretty clear Hashirama isn't taking the 9tails into account until after he acknowledges Naruto for his chakra pool. The implication is that he has greater chakra than Naruto(Singular) not that he has more chakra than Naruto + Kurama.
i mean he does overpower and outlast Madara and Kurama so unless Naruto + Kurama is multiplicative i think Hashirama still has more. this is pre six paths buff of course
Tailed beast are stated stronger inside of a jinchuriki. I’d say it’s multiplicative. Being sealed in someone merges your chakra and allows more refined control. When obito took in the 10 tails it was clearly multiplicative just look how much stronger Juubito was than his base or even the base 10 tails.
What are you basing this implication on? Because Hashi doesn't comment on Naruto's chakra until he enters KCM 2. Keep in mind he fought Madara and the full 9 tails at the same time for an entire day.
Honestly... W video. I lowkey thought this fight was in Hashirama's favor (only due to 1000 hands jutsu, wood golems and regeneration), but you managed to help me a lot with Kakashi's scaling. I knew he was insane given he coutered a six paths powered jutsu SEVERAL times but I never really realized how incredible his other feats were😅
3:44 actually, i think you called it a little early here. because in recent interviews, Kishimoto revealed he's no longer involved in the writing either. he's just a reader like us. i'm not sure exactly when the dynamic flipped. i know he wasn't a writer at all until about mid way through the Isshiki fight. he would've been the most involved during the rest of that fight, and then for some time after. i know that the Omnipotence Arc wasn't originally his plan, and allegedly: he planned on killing Code off earlier too. so i think its safe to say that around Codes Assault, his position as lead writer began waning. now i'm not sure why you brought this up in the first place. considering your main sources for scaling are novels, which aren't written by Kishimoto at all. so it seems to me a little weird to bring this up at all. 10:20 this is all so pointless. the Sharingan barely amped his speed. in fact, it was more of drain on his Chakra than it was an asset. as a kid he was already lightning timing. the whole reason Minato forbid him from using Chidori was because it was too fast for him. he would obviously continue to grow stronger and faster throughout the years. as is chronicled throughout his many novels and the manga and anime itself. but has his perception increased? well in theory, human eyes degrade over time. however, Kakashi is the Leafs most elite ninja. a Jonin amongst jonin, amongst the village with the most skilled & powerful Jonin. "Jonin" doesn't even begin to describe it. this man, for not being from any special clan: was a true genius. so he should have access to the Leaf Villages best medical science. and actually, his left eye is practically brand new. considering Naruto created it for him during the latter half of the War Arc. so his perception probably hasn't decreased all that much. anyways, Hashirama had to deal with Madara and the Uchiha as a whole. who should all be decently fast. but i think it's clear he just so massively outspeeds Hashirama it's not even funny. 15:01 well i absolutely hate this scaling chain, to be used for Kakashi. and Koji was also obviously holding back in his scuffle with Kakashi. but then, so was Kakashi. i do think they scale to each other, and Kakashi should be relative to Jigen, Naruto, and Sasuke. at least in terms of speed. but does that really have any relevance to Hashirama? i'll let you continue. 15:33 here we GO!!! some proper fucking scaling!!! yes i agree with this completely. Purple Lightning should be more than capable of slicing cleanly through Hashirama. 16:16 well i think the Nue scaling is iron clad. the problem here is Hashiramas healing factor. could he regenerate from getting sliced in half? would both character be in character, even? they kinda couldn't be, right? but then, Shinsu Senju Kannon stomps. right? his durability's decent, but it's nothing too crazy. maybe the Retsuden Novel has some bonkers shit in it though? 20:37 yerp. that's some insane shit right there. the novel writer decided to glaze tf outta Kakashi and i am quite alright with it. Kakashi is easily in my top 5 Naruto characters of all time. dude is simply the GOAT. 21:10 yeah. i mean shit dude, bro is so GOATed. while watching the Land of Steam arc, i found it a little odd that he didn't destroy the boulder himself. and instead waited for Choji to come by and pick it up and toss it to the top of the mountain from whence it came. obviously he could've, but he was treating that whole trip like a vacation so it also makes sense
Going point by point here 1: You are correct in that Kishimoto is no longer at the helm writing, but he isn’t just a reader like us. He does the verification before it goes to publication, so he still approves each chapter. It seems like he basically just took over the end of P1. To be fair, he also has set the entire outline for the story in advance, but Ikemoto works on the details month to month. The point in bringing it up was to say that if people consider Boruto canon with a different author, they should also consider the novels canon. 2: Yeah I think shinobi can increase their perception speed. Minato, for example, doesn’t have a sharingan, but performs speed feats far beyond most sharingan users 3: I disagree that they’re holding back, at least in base physical stats 4: You now see why the speed mattered lol. Love seeing your reaction in text form 5: Yeah Hashirama might be able to put himself back together from being bisected, but Kakashi would likely cut his head off while he was trying to do that 6: Kakashi the GOAT! 7: Yeah this goes back to the AP/DC/physical strength thing. I think Kakashi could’ve destroyed the boulder (he actually says he could), but moving it is another issue. He also says it’s probably full of metal, and they’d have to get it pretty far away, so having Choji do it was the best course of action.
@ Oh! Why thank you and thanks for responding. 1. I consider Boruto canon because as you said, Kishi still writes the broad strokes of the story outline. And has the authority of final approval. In terms of Novels… I mean really the only one I consider non-canon is Sasuke Retsuden. Just because it’s 𝒔𝒐 contradictory. I also don’t much care for the Shuigu. Although one easy way I can get around my discomfort of its existence, is to just say that in my head canon: it was created by Hamura not Hagoromo. And that solves pretty much all my issues with it. 2. Yeah. Makes sense to me. His eyes were exceptionally good for non Kekkei Genkai. Could you imagine Minato with the Byakugan or Sharingan? Bro would have been unstoppable. 3. Yeah. When I say “holding back” I mean mainly in terms of jutsu variety. Although, if they were going all out in terms of strength and speed? That building would no longer be standing. So I consider that fight to be one step up from Shinobi sparring. 4. Yeah! lol. I find it awkward & difficult to portray my raw emotions in text form. I’m glad to see it all got conveyed properly here! 😅 5. Yeah if he was blood-lusted or mind controlled, or if Hashirama was either of these? Then yeah I could see him doing that. Bro comes off as chill, and he is absolutely. But he was also trained as an assassin from, what? 11 to 20 years old? Something like that. He’s an absolute killer. 6. Me af: m.ruclips.net/video/465GqT_EuUA/видео.html 7. Yeah. Not to mention all the shrapnel he would’ve sent flying everywhere… yeah. This what makes Kakashi the Leaf Villages best. His tactical mind and ability to coordinate with others. GOAT shit
@@JohanLiebert-ch6bm the difference is, it is canon💀 an example of what’s canon and what’s not within Naruto. What’s not canon: team 7 fighting Raiga in part one Naruto. That’s non canon. What’s canon: the time travel arc in Boruto is canon. Every arc in Boruto is canon. None of anything within the Boruto anime is non canon.
If everyone is multiple times stronger in boruto so the story can make money by extension if hashirama existed in boruto or is back he will be more powerful as well
@@derekseago9647scaling is off mj and LeBron is still a debate to most people the idea that not even a top 5 strongest shippuden character like Sakura is so strong all of the sudden and now kakashi who’s levels should of only increased a bit are now jubbidara level is just cringe and a sell out for money.
@@derekseago9647 it’s a logic fail if the previous scaling would of never allowed c ranked characters to be better then jubbidara and all of sudden medic ninja are better then the whole previous verse then by extension the previous scales and feats can provide zero intel on characters strength as they can be 1000000x at the drop of hat for no reason. Pre kagyua scaling is the only valid scaling
11:21 That's nowhere near his best physical durability feat lol. He tanked Kakuzu's Wind style pressure damage jutsu that desecrated the surrounding forest then tanked three of Pain's Shinra Tensei, the last of which generated enough force to wipe out a man of Choza's size completely. That V2 Jinchuuriki smack was nothing short of a tickle for him.
I know all the Jinchuriki don’t scale the same but considering what a V2 Naruto did to Pain and face tanked a Shinra Tensei with no damage, Kakashi taking a hit from a V2 Jin that scale to War Arc B and KCM Naruto is definitely ridiculously above merely wiping a forest or even the full power Shinra Tensei that Pain released on the village
@@jocoolshow Cushioning a tail whack from a V2 Jinchuuriki is impressive since Sakura instantly collapsed & began bleeding from the same blow (chapter 296, page 10), but not nearly as impressive as cushioning a Wind-Style jutsu that makes the one Temari used to kill Curse Mark Tayuya look like a gust of wind. Kakuzu's Wind-Style pressure damage jutsu discharged several times more destructive capability than the Shinra Tensei Pain used on Kyuubi Naruto. And tanking Three Shinra Tensei in the same fight is a greater durability feat than any durability feat Bee's independently displayed.
Kakashi losing his ability to use the Lightning Blade has always been weird to me. Like Minato and Ay don't seem to struggle to react when moving at high speed but War Arc Kakashi can't? It just doesn't make any sense.
It's not that Kakashi loses the ability to use it, it's that the technique causes tunnel vision which makes it hard to react to incoming counterattacks and so he would be reckless to use it. Kakashi in the war is fast but he clearly lacked the reflexes that Minato possesses and most of his "speed" feats come from teleportation anyway, which is more similar to summoning jutsu than body flicker. As for Ay, he moves at very high speeds but he funnels lightning Chakra into his own body before being able to do so. It's explained that when he fought Sasuke in his v2 cloak, his body reacts on its own without him even needing to think. Whats weird to me is that Kakashi never thought of developing a different lightning style technique despite having such talent. I know he made raikiri variations but I mean a completely different base technique.
@@chadbushell yaeh but Kakashi should easily have the reaction time to pull it off, at least with some training. I mean if he could get as powerful as he was as a Hokage and develop Purple Lightning he should be able to train up his reaction time as well.
in speed hes far faster. has 53 percent the chakra levels of the nine tails. prolly on a similar tier of strength as that naruto. durability is at least 100 times what is was during wa and in wa he tanked a rasengan from sage minato . kakashi takes iq and biq and exp. he takes kenjutsu taijutsu. ap is multi continental level. dc is country- continental level. so prolly on the same tiet
@EeveetoUmbreon25 a Chidori can realistically never have as much destructive power as a thousand hand skyscraper jutsu but he would totally win a hand to hand fight
This scaling is nearly perfect. Hashirama gets one shot at this point by a lot of characters. Power creep sucks but it’s just cold hard facts. Nice job. 👍🏽
@@sageofthickcalves Is speed in the Naruto world relative to the ammount of chakra one has? For example, if i have more chakra than you does that make me faster than you? (sort of how Ki is in Dragon Ball) How is speed increase achieved in the Naruto universe? Shouldn't i be able to do a bigger and better Body Flicker if i have more chakra?
@@derekseago9647 If you mean Kakashi, then yeah that's crazy considering his affinity is lightning. Surely he could have come up with deadly lightning jutsu akin to his student.
We’re supposed to believe that the reincarnation of Ashura. The guy who was called the God of Shinobi and hailed the strongest Shinobi of all time up until Six paths characters is weaker than Chojoru and Korutsuchi because they fought Kinshiki and didn’t win …………….How does that narratively even make sense. Every kage/kage level shinobi before Boruto era is now ass with this type of scaling.
sage, how do you feel about hokage kakashi being able to destroy that meteor after the retsuden events? in the last he couldn't do it, but what about now?? love your videos man!
Thank you! I still think it would be tough because his kit isn’t suited for AOE (area of attack) feats. He’s more precise and survival than big boom go bang. If you look at what happened with Nue, he slices through Nue’s tail like butter, so the attack potency for his Shiden is off the charts, but the destructive capacity isn’t crazy high by comparison.
@@sageofthickcalves i think his best bet would be to focus all of the Chakra on his hand and use the Shiden, something similar to what he did on the Kakashi Hiden novel but instead of sending lightning bolts to create a thunderstorm he would focus all of the Chakra to amp the potency of his attack. Another scenario i imagined would be to use something smilitar to the earth walls he created to protect an entire village in the Retsuden novel but instead focus all of it to create something like a dome made out of earth or quartz to at least protect the village from the damage. It seems unrealistic maybe but he even got the terrain advantage with the mountains on the village. With the amount of Chakra that he has now, i don't think it's impossible, tell me how you feel about these two possibilities if you can please.
That's why i don't want to watch Boruto. Honestly, how do you justify Kakashi having as much chakra as Naruto (Uzumaki+son of the 4th hokage+9tail) and Hashirama(reincarnation of Ashura). Dude went from struggling with Kakuzu, getting Stomp by Pain, somehow manage to fight Obito and Now you are telling me that he beat Hashirama. It doesn't make sense to me storywise. For Guy i can understand he was always stated to be a menace ans since 8th gate kills him, it justify the power boost. However for Kakashi it's just fan service.
Kakashi was always a centre point of scaling villians and was stated multiple times by a lot of people to be the elite of elite ninjas/genius prodigy. He became genin when he was 5, chunnin when he was 6, jonin when he was 9/10 and you're saying that this boost in power was not justified?
@@juno.8-8 YES, By that logic Minato and Itachi should be stronger than Kakashi because they are both more talented. So both of them should be Hashirama level.
@@sageofthickcalves Was he stronger than kid Minato, Itachi and Neijj ? Should they all be Hashirama level if they didn't die ? Naratively it still don't make any sense to me. It's like when they changed the narrative with Hiruzen. He was supposed to be the strongest and they changed it. They needed Kakashi to be relevent so they had to buff him. Kakashi is a Legendary Ninja but Hashirama and Naruto should be outside scaling
When you look at the collateral damages in a high tier fight in boruto , it seems like boruto actually fixed the power creep that shippuden had since edo madara by nerfing the strongest characters , boruto as a verse is actually weaker than Shippuden
@ that’s not true. For example, Black Frieza in Dragon Ball Super is clearly universal + by being able to one-tap DBS Goku and Vegeta, and yet the punches don’t even destroy the planet they’re on
damn those scalings show why I don't actively read Boruto anymore. if we are taking the anime for instance we can no cap say 1 tails kid Naruto body bags hashirma. or was it even 1 tail against that Outstutsuki with the fishing pole? And just the manga scale that doesn't have impossible recursions like that: Genin Boruto claps Hashirama. He managed to land a hit on Momoshiki. That's all you need to know to know Genin Boruto oneshots Juubidara if not Kaguya the father-son-Rasengan not even need. and yes I am trying to be disingenious and fail at that. This is a legit way to scale Kakashi who manhandled Boruto like a kage should manhandle a genin. Like: a damn random civilian can oneshot Kaguya now. Hashirama and the other tops of the verse lie Madara or Obito aren't even in the conversation. If a Boruto character fights a Naruto character. DBS characters vs Teletubbies is more reasonable
Hokage Minato would beat Juubito and here is why: 1.AP>Dura: Minato oneshotted the Full Ninetails at 14, Sage Naruto blew Juubitos back out, but couldn't damage half of the ninetails. 2. Speed: Tobirama is shown to be able to blitz and content with Juubito. Tobirama admitted to being inferior to base minato, saying he's better with ftg and according to Tobirama, quick at striking too, implying a conjunction between these two statements. He's also better at bodyflicker, being shown when he arrived at the battlefield before all the other Hokage. Minato can also react to 8th Gate Gai with ftg. 3. Sealing: Minato can seal the full Ninetails without the reaper death seal, he only used the reaper to split the soul of the ninetails into yin and yang portions. The Tentails that Juubito uses has only 7 Bijuus worth of chakra, while full kurama has at least 10 Bijuus worth of chakra, because half kurama is able to overpower or equal out 5 Bijuus at the same time. Potential Debunks: "Minato even in kcm couldn't do much against Juubito, Tobirama>kcm Minato" -> Minato had a stupor during most of the fight, Tobirama only scales relative to a minato with a stupor. Tobirama admitted that Base Minato is superior to him. So Base Minato>KCM Minato with a stupor. "Minato didn't oneshot kurama" -> If he didn't oneshot kurama he and kushina would have died. Minato overpowering the Bijuudama and pushing kurama back is the last thing we see before Minato wakes up in the hospital. In conclusion: Hokage Minato would blitz Juubito with A, a Sage Rasengan and oneshot him or B, blitz him and seal him up.
They don’t really scale to Momoshiki’s power, they scale to his taijutsu while his rinnegan dwarf’s. What they do is exploit his weakness, not overcome him through power
@sageofthickcalves Okay, I finished the book. First, I just want to say that it was worth the read. Really love Kakashi and Nanara's dynamic through out the story. Finished your video, and it's really solid. I always look at promotional blurbs with a grain of salt so I wouldn't take the "strongest teacher" statement at face value, but even disregarding that the evidence for Kakashi being stronger then Hashirama is clear.
I do not like the novel feats at all, but even then Kakashi contradicts the feats anyway when he states he was basically nerfed ever since losing his sharingan
@@aymanriki1018 not really tho. since its approved by kishimoto and the publishers to be cannon material unless it contridicted the manga which it does not.
Good video as always but I think this is the first one I can't agree with fully. I agree that Kakashi has gotten way stronger and developed a lot of nasty jutsu in the blank period, but Hashirama has a lot of large scale techniques that a mud wall couldn't handle. Shinsu senju is the most broken sage art and is such a violent technique that no amount of Chakra reserves will bail out Kakashi. You mention a lot of Hashirama durability feats, but Kakashi doesn't have anything crazy going for him either, and Hashirama has regen abilities that surpass the technique that the strongest current kunoichi (Sakura) uses which is hundred healing technique. So Kakashi may have gotten more boom boom bang bang since the 4th war, but I'm not convinced that anything he has is a death threat unless he scores direct hits like with his new fire style. Yea it wiped out a so6p powered tool, but what are the odds of him colliding with a seasoned ninja and fellow Hokage fully with such a technique? They would all at the very least be able to react to it or dodge. I think Hashirama still has the edge, but Hokage Kakashi won't make it boring.
At no point did Koji ever attacked kakashi seriously, he didn’t even attack him at all honestly, as for Jigen please put things in to context koji lost the only reason he even put a good fight against Jigen is because he had pre planned, Jigen wasn’t even taking him seriously like y’all really like to dick ride
@@chadbushell unfortunately i created an essay for you and youtube deleted it. i spent a lot of time and effort too😭😭. anyways i basically just said and proved how fire mist jutsu counters and is >= hashiramas 1000 hands and how kakashi can use it to potentially kill or create an opening for a killing attack . and more but im not tryna do allat for it to get deleted again
@@GeneFOX70 if I go and wrestle with a child, does that mean the child is as strong as I am? Kakashi and Koji had a two second long scuffle in which a kunai was slashed, a clone was canceled and then a smoke bomb was used as Koji retreated. He didn't try anything, whatsoever, against Kakashi.
Put this into perspective for me will ya. Are you saying old man hokage kakashi could defeat and capture every tailed beast one by one? So he could also take on every villain including Madara by himself? probably excluding kaguya.
If people are honest with themselves about Kakashi’s trajectory before he got the sharingan… it makes sense that he would’ve grown to be insanely powerful without having his chakra zapped in half.
Not to mention, his depression nerf is now gone allowing him to continue to grow at the astronomical rate he was as a child.
facts u can tell by his speed increase throughout wa going from kcm1 levels to kcm2 levels to kcm2 sage mode levels of speed in a short time. so obviously kakashi who trained for 16 years would be far faster and more powerful
Something that I love about Post Naruto Kakashi is that his fighting style has him reversing the elemental strength/weaknesses. He uses fire to over power water and earth to protect against lightning. I want more like this from him.
Kakashi fans finally got their thirst quenched.
@@otherguyjo1684 not yet
I haven't finished the video, but Hashirama has 100% of Hashirama cells, so that's a casual dub for him .
Im disappointed in Hashirama cells not being able to stand up against the GREATEST NINJA ALIVE, but I'm not surprised. 😆 Kakashi for the dub was obvious since the beginning.
@Watermellyy I knew Kakashi had it in the bag. My comment was just satire 🤣
@@StevenFrazier5facts kakashi stomps
My guy 🔥
Funny enough, Sasuke has shown envy in Kakashi's approach to teachin during the events of sasuke shinden the teacher's star pupil.
How so?
@Alex-fe5fz If I remember correctly, Sasuke was teaching team 7 a jutsu that required a high level of chakra control. Sasuke struggled to draw parallels and couldn't find the right words to guide them in the right direction. I think that made Sasuke appreciate Kakashi more now that he was in his shoes. Basically, Sasuke is the kind of guy to tell a homeless person to just get money.
Being powerful doesn't intrinsically make you a good teacher.
@@theprofessor2817 Kakashi was a much better prodigy than Sasuke was, heck he was a jonin at 13. It makes sense to why Kakashi was good at teaching because he just was good at everything
Kakashi losing his Sharingan is kind of like how Wolverine loses his Admantine skeleton.
In Wolverine’s case all his stats increase because his natural healing factor isn’t having to fight the metal poisoning of the Adamantine.
In Kakashi’s case his stamina increases even further without his chakra being drained by the Sharingan, but also that he still remembers all the Jutsu he learned from the Sharingan aside from Raikiri and kekai genkai exclusives.
Wolverine with bone claws is fodder, Adamantium is what allows him to fight Hulk/Thor level characters and not get killed instantly.
Wolverine can regenerate from a drop of blood
@@Sage447no he can't bro if he could he wouldn't die but he died and I only know this from Deadpool and wolverine because I don't really know marvel but I know he isnt immortal
He actually did regenerate from a drop of blood. It happened in the comics. You can’t just erase history because you say so dumbass. Not how things work.
@ODINSWISHEShe did regenerate from a drop of blood in the comics just saying
Thank you Lord Thick Calves for another banger
🫡
MASSIVE W . ive been waiting for this video for a while and its goated. im suprised the comment section isnt full of hashirama fans (yet) cause if this was a poll hashirama fans would be yappin
Thank you!
Honestly fully agree, really find it weird when people try to act like Hashirama is still some untouchable god if you're not literally an otsutsuki, or Naruto/Sasuke/Madara/Obito with six paths chakra. Though on the point about chakra reserves at 17:15ish... I don't think Kakashi was referring to the entirety of KCM2 Naruto's chakra with that 100x statement, WA Kakashi seemed surprised by the amount of chakra KCM1 and KCM2 Naruto each had. So I think it's more reasonable that Rasenshuriken training arc comment was talking about 2 Tails Naruto from the Kazekage rescue arc.
Bro barely squabbled with a koji clone that wasn’t even trying and suddenly he’s wanked to jigen level 😂
These kakashi and tobirama fans are another breed I tell ya
Speed scaling. Also, Koji gave up on an important mission due to Kakashi and considered him a significant risk to himself
@
Koji’s “important mission” was to make sure jigen gets packed up
And konoha was enemy No-1 of jigen at the time
It was an itachi situation all over again
Except this time, koji only wanted the leaf safe to deal with jigen/isshiki afterwards
@@ajayimoses2495 he was trying to get shinobi's data
@ Koji lamenting the fact that he didn’t get the scroll + calling Kakashi a risk to himself BOTH IN HIS OWN HEAD means that what he said is how he actually felt
@
Yeah a risk to the secrecy of his plans..
If Kara found out what that mission was because of kakashi causing a ruckus, then it’d be the end of the road
If he felt like it and killed kakashi, then Kara would just develop more suspicion because delta would press him as to why
And he’d have 0 Allabies
So the best option there was to leave the scroll and kakashi ALONE and let the leaf progress as planned
While blaming the info loss on the guy who caused the crash AKA victor
Such a minor interaction cannot be used to infer anything tangible
That moment when nobody thought it was close.
I still remember when Yamoto first debuted and that 5 minute special move from Ultimate ninja 3 the hype for Hashirama exploded.
SOTC making a Kakashi video is obviously gonna be goated 🔥
The way these youtubers do analysis, they can make any character they like the GOAT.
It’s more of the boruto power scaling that is ruining the story after Madara they fell off and made kaguya and they need to increase power levels more into boruto and imo they have done a bad job making characters that already reached there peak scale way more powerful (Sakura going from useless to more powerful then all of Naruto prior to boruto is just plain cringe
@@Eagle20mids If its because of Boruto then Kakashi or Sakura shouldn't be a topic. Because as far as I know (and I have read all of boruto) They haven't done anything in the series yet. No fights. just talks
@@SamuelQuaye-zs4uc my argument is even if they seem more powerful, older characters get scaled up unless there’s outliers and incremental improvements only, once they reach a plateau kakashi can’t go from losing to pain to one shoting hashirama like they want that’s not scaling that’s just fiction how ever sauske could as he was always meant to but Sakura makes all feat’s irrelevant according to them as they claim she can solo the shippuden verse now so all feats in general are not real unless scale up for other characters is introduced
@@Eagle20mids I get you
@@Eagle20mids
Exactly.
It doesn’t make sense from a story perspective.
If Kakashi had that much potential, it should have been showcased better in the manga. My instinct tells me they wanted to keep him relevant in Boruto, so they had to power him up. In my opinion, his abilities should have plateaued at best, slightly above Tobirama. Which is still crazy.
But since everybody got a power boost, yeah it seems right for him to be so strong
The only thing I disagree with is the teacher comment at the end. It implies the strongest of Naruto’s teachers not strongest of any teacher.
I’d say that’s a leap because you’d have to make an assumption that isn’t indicated in the text itself, but it’s a fine interpretation
I think a boruto era kakashi vs akatuski/or boruto era Kage should be a follow up video
Some may call this glaze... Others with a more reasonable sense of judgement call this rightful praise.
Thanks for the banger sage.
@@Kenny987-n4i 🫡
I haven’t seen glazing this thick in a very long time 😂😂.
@@pharaohkai1 what issues did you have with the scaling?
Frankly, I've never found this match-up to be particularly interesting due to the lack of a narrative theme behind it (unlike with something like Minato vs Kakashi). But hey, it's a Kakashi video made by you, so I might as well help to you fight the algorithm jutsu ;)
Here's one more quote from Sakura Hiden worth knowing:
"A Tailed Beast drug.
The results had been superb. Just as Kido ordered, assassins-abilities enhanced by the Tailed Beast drug-had thrown a kunai next to the daimyo, lightly slashed at the advisor, evaded the pursuing guard ninja, and fled the scene quite admirably. Kido had then used those attacks as a pretext to secure a budget increase for the Anbu.
We can use the Tailed Beast drug. Kido could feel the power of it. And this meant two things: they could use it for the dosed human beings and for political strategy.
But Hatake Kakashi was a serious opponent, one he must not let his guard down around. Kakashi might have had his eyes sleepily half-closed most of the time, but his intuition was sharp when it counted. After all, he already had former Anbu member Sai at work."
Fight the algorithm jutsu is unmatched 🔥
comment for kakashi glazing and algorithm engagement
Kakashi been that dawg. Why we debating fr?
loved it my man
@@JOSHUAPRAYER-z4z thank you!
I love how technical these videos are. 10/10
Thank you so much!
The GOAT uploaded finally 🥲
All I'm saying is one of these guys boxed with a guy who boxed with a guy who can create dimensions with potentially stars or even universes in them and the other has not, sooo...
W
Madara w0uld have killed kaguya in a fight so hashirama who fought him is proven stronger than cuckashi
@ why would EMS Madara be able to kill Kaguya when Juubi Madara is stated massively weaker than her?
@@themiddleman3060 Madara gained Hashirama cells, the Rinnegan, Sage Mode, The Ten Tails, the God Tree and a third eye since his battle with Hashirama and was still weaker than Kaguya.
Tell em what’s up bro!!
Kakashi gang reppin'?
Quick question why do power scalers not do the whole common sense thing and reach so bad like im not necessarily disagree with the viseo but thwyre are times in all manga where one must be able to determine whether something is a good scene for storytelling vs a status quo the author ia trying to set some of his points tell me he cant tell the difference
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@@darryelphillip5219 i dont really get the reaching part. all were doing is making logical conclusions based on facts , statements, feats, and things that are proven to be true. for example if you were given an equation and it asked whats 2+2? you would easily be able to come to a factually correct conclusion based on given information which is 2+2 in this case.
@derekseago9647 the part your missing is authors jobs are to tell the best story they arent mathmaticians, physics majors or powerscalers when they draw something they could and more times than not dont care if this holds up with the series current power scale they do it becquse it moves the story forward yet u guys will take simple statements meant for simple dramatic effect and gas the shit outta it ie
The kakashi greatest teacher bit at the end is dumb if a little common sense is applied
Easy example currently in TBV the author is portraying boruto as the strongest and having surpassed naruto and sasuke. Now leta do some quick math
Boruto is momoshinki vessel
- momo with 3 rinnegan, 2 byakugan, half narutos chackra lost to naruto and sasuke both fatigued before the fight
Naruto and sasuke full power < jigen
Jigen < code
Code < tbv boruto
Yet this on a PURE math front makes no sense as boruto is literally a genetic copy of mom with one less byakugan no rinnegan and no half of naruto chackra
So why is he portrayed this way even without activating karma because the author wants too and nothing more
It's always a good day when sage drop a kakashi related vid 💯❤️🔥.....Love the content bro keep up the hard work 💪🏾
Appreciate the support! 🙏🏼
Haven't seen the video yet; just wanted to help you in the algorithm and thank ya for giving me something to listen to while I take care of some errands.
Thank you so much!
Why is it that most of the people disagreeing with your takes don't elaborate on why? If they make claims, they don't sight sources.
Broad statements like "Hashirama slams" is no an argument, people.
because thats typically how ill informed hashirama fans debate
That part
@@derekseago9647 Although, I agree that Hashirama fans are ill informed at times. My comment wasn't about them. I was addressing people's inability of debating properly.
@@Breeze06 i get your point. and either its because they are trolling, super young and immature, or just believe in their own personal perception without realizing the underlying biases behind it. either way there are some mature ones
They’re basically all of Madara’s alt accounts
The problem with this is, that its such a stupidly obvious example of dumb powercreep that it hurts my head. Kakashi being this strong just doesnt feel right.
Yeah it feels weird, but it is what it is
@@sageofthickcalves Im pretty sure that people who "disagree" with such things dont disagree on an intellectual level but rather dislike it so much, that they disagree on an emotional level. Just like a disagree with Otsutsuki being canon. Intellectualy i obviously know, that Kaguya happened in the manga and that the Boruto-Mange exists, but i hate it so much, that i call it "non-canon". To me it doesnt exist.
@ yeah I think that sums up a good chunk of those who disagree
He survived Itachi’s tsukuyomi. The Zenkai boost is real.
@@elhadjtall3627 thanks for the 4.99! You’re awesome 🙏🏼 Zenkai Boost deadass might be real 💀
I am hyped for this
finally, some peak to watch
🙏🏼
I frequently thank god for the Kakashi appreciation found in Sage of Thick Calves 🙏🏻🙏🏻
@@joaobrito2874 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@joaobrito2874 me too
Hell of a video man, you are starting to make your way to the top of Naruto creators. Keep it up can't wait for the next one 🙏
Thank you so much! 🙏🏼
u putting up the novel scans:
me reading the absolute emotional masterpiece for the first time:
15:13 but that would mean a boulder would scale above the tailed beasts since choji needed help to lift the one in that village
@@TheFakeBriskeh Kakashi implies he can pulverize it, but the rubble would go everywhere and exacerbate the problem, plus it “probably” has metal in it (according to Kakashi). So the best course of action would be to have someone like Choji come life and carry it instead of blowing it up. So this doesn’t mean that neither of them could blow it up, but rather that lifting it would be tough alone. We just don’t know how much it weighs so we can’t calc it.
Dope beginning effects
Thanks, appreciate that! 🔥
If we’re being perfectly honest and we hypothetically say we are a Kage level ninja in the naruto world. If we had knowledge on all of kakashis and hashirama feats, chakra levels, speed, jutsu potency ect… Can we honestly say we would be more nervous going up against kakashi than a more than half of kurama chakra level hashirama that held down the f**ing 10 tails.
@@kashfreegame i would be just as nervous if i was a no named shinobi
Kakashi literally held down the goddess of all shinobi lol
@@Edjuyl he was on Jesus amp steroids
My opinion before watching the vid….Kakashi absolutely stomps…..if we can say he scales to the other 4 Kage from the Boruto era. The power cliffing in Boruto is insane. The Boruto Era Kage in terms of raw stats stomp everyone in Shippuden as they scale to Kinshiki and Momoshiki who themselves scale above Kaguya by a noticeable amount.
If Kakashi in any way scales close to them, he stomps Hashirama who scales concretely below Juubito. I know people would say hax and matchups matter, and they do if the hax can close the gap, but the gap between Kakashi and Hashirama is bigger than the gap between Juubito and Kaguya, so no amount of Hashirama Cells is saving him from this whooping
The 3 kage (FYI not Gaara or Naruto) scale close to those two
@Nphynite Kinshiki beat Chojuro instantly and Kurotsuchi surprise attacked him. Momoshiki was more so annoyed by Darui and Gaara by the manga panel and looks straight unbothered by the anime. They do not “scale to” any Otsutsuki.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Boruto and most of the time I’m defending its characters to Boruto haters, but you can’t just say “they scale here” and have it make sense. Gaara (who by your logic is above Kaguya) became bedridden after sealing Urashiki (canon arc), while base Jiraiya was able to react to even his fused form, far after he’d stopped “playing around” the whole damn arc.
When y’all make such an unbelievably insurmountable gap in power between Naruto and Boruto’s characters, you completely trash all continuity and consistency of the entire universe. These stories happen in the SAME UNIVERSE, which means SAME RULES. So what, base Jiraiya = base Jigen because Jiraiya = Gaara = Kakashi = base Koji = base Jigen? That is an absolutely absurd jump in logic, and ignores plethoras of details and circumstances that notoriously define Naruto scaling, meaning it should define Boruto scaling as well.
Using “power cliffing” as an explanation just shows you don’t actually know what you’re talking about in terms of scaling, as you’re essentially directly admitting that the scaling doesn’t make sense, and that it just is what it is, when there are other perfectly good ways to interpret these characters that preserves the general Boruto > Naruto scaling while also not completely dismissing the entirety of the universe’s foundational characters and rules.
One small example for some thought, maybe Kinshiki actually scales quite a bit below Kaguya, around ten tails Madara. This doesn’t contradict his fight with Sasuke, as Sasuke was noticeably fatigued and holding back, he then does get sealed by Chojuro and Kurotsuchi, but Sasuke (still holding back) was instrumental to that. Finally, Kinshiki himself is never stated to be superior to Kaguya. Momoshiki himself isn’t either, rather the two of them combined, as Kaguya specially wrote of the two of them as a duo.
From this, you:
1. Provide a solid foundation of Boruto’s scaling as a story, as near the peak of Shippuden’s power, not some arbitrary, “above Kaguya” level.
2. Properly incorporate side characters into fights in a way that doesn’t rely on “power cliffing” to explain and instead uses delicate situational circumstances that close power gaps.
And 3. Don’t cause countless contradictions based off your own scaling methods (ex. Jiraiya in the Urashiki arc) that result in huge snowballing arguments, leaps in logic, and effectively forever blocking out newer side characters from ever being relevant without once again relying on “power cliffing,” which is lazy and incredibly inconsistent.
Also I really hate the equating of base Koji and base Jigen. While yes absolutely you can say base Jigen scales above base adult Naruto, that was a 100% chakra Jigen + a ten tails chakra amp. The Jigen that Koji fought was a 10% Jigen, which is EXPLICITLY stated by Amado himself. The narrative wants you to know that Jigen is weakened, and that this is the ONLY opportunity they have to pull out Isshiki, BECAUSE he is weakened. They literally give you a percentage, that rarely ever happens in Naruto/Boruto.
Obviously you can argue that 10% chakra ≠ 10% power output, which is true sometimes but is a case by case argument. Even so, Urashiki states several times that Sasuke still hasn’t gained his power back from being drained, and that his movements are slow and weak (aka stats being directly weakened via chakra drain). Jigen, so is actively trying to preserve his life, is not gonna use the same level of power he did against Koji as he did against Naruto, and Jigen literally says right before going into V2 that Koji was actually trying to kill him, meaning there was some doubt initially.
Anyways, y’all gotta stop throwing every damn Boruto era character to ten tails Madara-Kaguya levels and above without taking a second and actually asking yourself if it even makes a shred of sense, are there different interpretations, or leaps in logic. Swear the next thing I’m gonna start seeing going around is “Shojoji STOMPS Jubbidara” or something.
Also kakashi was said to have gotten several orders of magnitude stronger as far as chakra reserves go
@@kashfreegame he said that
Sage you never fail to disappoint with your vids man, keep up the good work.
This is the issue that every shonen has, regardless of how powerful a character from the past was, if that character is not involved in the present era he will get powered creep to oblivion, realistically both Hashirama and Madara shouldn't be reachable by regular characters if we go by lore, since they are both "gods", but when the premise of your manga is that all characters have to fight alien/gods, then even the weakest character that is able to block or land a punch to a new villian will have to be stronger than anything from Naruto
WHERE TF IS RETSUDEN KAKASHI WHEN THESE ABOVE JIGEN, NARUTO AND SASUKE LVL ANDRIODS ARE HERE
Amado's all like "the leaf needs me to contain Kawaki since he surpasses even the hokage".... little does amado know, Retsuden Scailing Kakashi was conviniently on the craziest vacation in history of all time while the entire leaf was risking their lives against Issiki, Code and Eda, so he's already wrong there. If only retsuden kakashi weren't on his crazy vacation, Jigen would have actually died on a 3v1
Kashin Koji: we can't fight Jura yet, he's too strong, if only there was someone who conveniently scales to the plot
Kakashi is retired bro🤷🏻♂️
Kakashi supposedly has a big role to play in TBV or at least he had, idk if Kishimoto changed his plans
I think we’ll find out what he’s been up to here pretty soon
Power levels in Boruto are a joke, Boruto itself is a joke tbh
Definitely crazy power cliffing
boruto isn't even canon and is a shit stain of a show.
Let's go! Another banger from the GOAT. Love your stuff Sage 💪
Thanks, appreciate the support! 🙏🏼
I never liked the idea of Hashirama being the strongest Ninja alive during Shippuden. Hiruzen was stated to be a genius, surpassed BOTH Hashirama and Tobirama during his run as the third Hokage and being called the "God of Shinobi". This was all stated in Part 1 and even shown when Orochimaru resurrected the 1st and 2nd. Shippuden came along, and everything became Naruto and Uchiha fest. A lot of stuff was either disregarded, forgotten, or overall retconned.
This is going to upset people but I'm here for it lol
I’m here to tell the truth 🫡
I get that making a mud wall around the village is a great feat but how does it matter how long the mud wall stood. Was it ever established that if an earth user makes a wall, the wall needs the person's constand chakra to keep the wall up? I thought once you create a wall its done. You could go rest
From my understanding it was actively being attacked during that time and Kakashi was not only maintaining the walls but also transforming parts of it into quartz walls and back to resist lighting jutsu including ninja tech versions of his own shinden.
A mud wall has to be maintained by funneling chakra into it or it’ll crumble. It was also being attacked with canons and jutsu, and he was actively repairing it
Kakashi is not beating ems madara with full power kurama covered in full susanoo. But hashirama did.
Kakashi beats that Madara BADLY
@sageofthickcalves The same kakashi who couldn't even chase and kill deidara or zabuza lmao and that's with sharingan, hokage kakashi doesn't even have that.
@ no, not the same Kakashi. The one who’s stated to be 100x stronger than he was in the War Arc when he was casually boxing up 4 level 2 bijuu simultaneously. If you had watched the video you’d know these things
@@sageofthickcalveshow
@@Geralddd966 he scales to Kashin Koji, who’s an Otsusuki level combatant
Bro really said Kakashi is above Hashirama 💀
Yes.
Crazy
Mfs were passing Hashirama cells like a blunt
Due to his regenerative powers and wood style, but no one was able to become another Hashirama, not even Danzo or Yamato were able to achieve this feat. Their skills ended on High Jonin/Low Kage level
can you pls do a make a video about naruto kyubi amp vs 5th gate rock lee pls I think this fight should be more debated it would amazing seeing you making a video of it
4:09 its pretty clear Hashirama isn't taking the 9tails into account until after he acknowledges Naruto for his chakra pool. The implication is that he has greater chakra than Naruto(Singular) not that he has more chakra than Naruto + Kurama.
i mean he does overpower and outlast Madara and Kurama so unless Naruto + Kurama is multiplicative i think Hashirama still has more. this is pre six paths buff of course
Tailed beast are stated stronger inside of a jinchuriki. I’d say it’s multiplicative. Being sealed in someone merges your chakra and allows more refined control. When obito took in the 10 tails it was clearly multiplicative just look how much stronger Juubito was than his base or even the base 10 tails.
What are you basing this implication on? Because Hashi doesn't comment on Naruto's chakra until he enters KCM 2. Keep in mind he fought Madara and the full 9 tails at the same time for an entire day.
well he saw how much chakra naruto was using and at first thought it was purely naruto but later realized it was naruto + half of kurama
@@hxlydiedmore like he overpowered and drained kuramas chakra. he didnt actually outlast
Honestly... W video. I lowkey thought this fight was in Hashirama's favor (only due to 1000 hands jutsu, wood golems and regeneration), but you managed to help me a lot with Kakashi's scaling. I knew he was insane given he coutered a six paths powered jutsu SEVERAL times but I never really realized how incredible his other feats were😅
Appreciate the kind words! Kakashi is a monster 🔥
I’ve seen some Kaguya vs Momoshiki videos. I wanna see your take on the match up for a future video 🙏
Bet
Hashirama still gonna win my guy. It’s still just plain obvious.
Can you do a video on Sarada’s scaling? People are putting her up against the other Uchiha on Twitter, interested in your opinion
For sure
14:43 why you said than base Naruto is relative with Momoshiki when Momoshiki dogwalked him?
@@benjaminbebans4974 read the manga. naruto was relative but on the lower end.
You're both on crack
@@benjaminbebans4974 base Hokage Naruto reacted to, blocked attacks from, and moved relative to Fused Momo, albeit for a short time
Cuz dude had half his chakra taken, was fatigued from the chakra stolen and still was able to cqc fused momo in base
3:44 actually, i think you called it a little early here. because in recent interviews, Kishimoto revealed he's no longer involved in the writing either. he's just a reader like us. i'm not sure exactly when the dynamic flipped. i know he wasn't a writer at all until about mid way through the Isshiki fight. he would've been the most involved during the rest of that fight, and then for some time after. i know that the Omnipotence Arc wasn't originally his plan, and allegedly: he planned on killing Code off earlier too. so i think its safe to say that around Codes Assault, his position as lead writer began waning.
now i'm not sure why you brought this up in the first place. considering your main sources for scaling are novels, which aren't written by Kishimoto at all. so it seems to me a little weird to bring this up at all.
10:20 this is all so pointless. the Sharingan barely amped his speed. in fact, it was more of drain on his Chakra than it was an asset. as a kid he was already lightning timing. the whole reason Minato forbid him from using Chidori was because it was too fast for him. he would obviously continue to grow stronger and faster throughout the years. as is chronicled throughout his many novels and the manga and anime itself. but has his perception increased? well in theory, human eyes degrade over time. however, Kakashi is the Leafs most elite ninja. a Jonin amongst jonin, amongst the village with the most skilled & powerful Jonin. "Jonin" doesn't even begin to describe it. this man, for not being from any special clan: was a true genius. so he should have access to the Leaf Villages best medical science. and actually, his left eye is practically brand new. considering Naruto created it for him during the latter half of the War Arc. so his perception probably hasn't decreased all that much.
anyways, Hashirama had to deal with Madara and the Uchiha as a whole. who should all be decently fast. but i think it's clear he just so massively outspeeds Hashirama it's not even funny.
15:01 well i absolutely hate this scaling chain, to be used for Kakashi. and Koji was also obviously holding back in his scuffle with Kakashi. but then, so was Kakashi. i do think they scale to each other, and Kakashi should be relative to Jigen, Naruto, and Sasuke. at least in terms of speed. but does that really have any relevance to Hashirama? i'll let you continue.
15:33 here we GO!!! some proper fucking scaling!!! yes i agree with this completely. Purple Lightning should be more than capable of slicing cleanly through Hashirama.
16:16 well i think the Nue scaling is iron clad. the problem here is Hashiramas healing factor. could he regenerate from getting sliced in half? would both character be in character, even? they kinda couldn't be, right? but then, Shinsu Senju Kannon stomps. right? his durability's decent, but it's nothing too crazy. maybe the Retsuden Novel has some bonkers shit in it though?
20:37 yerp. that's some insane shit right there. the novel writer decided to glaze tf outta Kakashi and i am quite alright with it. Kakashi is easily in my top 5 Naruto characters of all time. dude is simply the GOAT.
21:10 yeah. i mean shit dude, bro is so GOATed. while watching the Land of Steam arc, i found it a little odd that he didn't destroy the boulder himself. and instead waited for Choji to come by and pick it up and toss it to the top of the mountain from whence it came. obviously he could've, but he was treating that whole trip like a vacation so it also makes sense
Going point by point here
1: You are correct in that Kishimoto is no longer at the helm writing, but he isn’t just a reader like us. He does the verification before it goes to publication, so he still approves each chapter. It seems like he basically just took over the end of P1. To be fair, he also has set the entire outline for the story in advance, but Ikemoto works on the details month to month. The point in bringing it up was to say that if people consider Boruto canon with a different author, they should also consider the novels canon.
2: Yeah I think shinobi can increase their perception speed. Minato, for example, doesn’t have a sharingan, but performs speed feats far beyond most sharingan users
3: I disagree that they’re holding back, at least in base physical stats
4: You now see why the speed mattered lol. Love seeing your reaction in text form
5: Yeah Hashirama might be able to put himself back together from being bisected, but Kakashi would likely cut his head off while he was trying to do that
6: Kakashi the GOAT!
7: Yeah this goes back to the AP/DC/physical strength thing. I think Kakashi could’ve destroyed the boulder (he actually says he could), but moving it is another issue. He also says it’s probably full of metal, and they’d have to get it pretty far away, so having Choji do it was the best course of action.
@ Oh! Why thank you and thanks for responding.
1. I consider Boruto canon because as you said, Kishi still writes the broad strokes of the story outline. And has the authority of final approval. In terms of Novels… I mean really the only one I consider non-canon is Sasuke Retsuden. Just because it’s 𝒔𝒐 contradictory. I also don’t much care for the Shuigu. Although one easy way I can get around my discomfort of its existence, is to just say that in my head canon: it was created by Hamura not Hagoromo. And that solves pretty much all my issues with it.
2. Yeah. Makes sense to me. His eyes were exceptionally good for non Kekkei Genkai. Could you imagine Minato with the Byakugan or Sharingan? Bro would have been unstoppable.
3. Yeah. When I say “holding back” I mean mainly in terms of jutsu variety. Although, if they were going all out in terms of strength and speed? That building would no longer be standing. So I consider that fight to be one step up from Shinobi sparring.
4. Yeah! lol. I find it awkward & difficult to portray my raw emotions in text form. I’m glad to see it all got conveyed properly here! 😅
5. Yeah if he was blood-lusted or mind controlled, or if Hashirama was either of these? Then yeah I could see him doing that. Bro comes off as chill, and he is absolutely. But he was also trained as an assassin from, what? 11 to 20 years old? Something like that. He’s an absolute killer.
6. Me af: m.ruclips.net/video/465GqT_EuUA/видео.html
7. Yeah. Not to mention all the shrapnel he would’ve sent flying everywhere… yeah. This what makes Kakashi the Leaf Villages best. His tactical mind and ability to coordinate with others. GOAT shit
@ no problem at all! Feel free to join my discord if you wanna chat more
discord.gg/zqcJ6mW8
@ I’ll join later. Gotta sort some stuff out first
@ all good!
I'm sorry man, we ain't scaling kakashi above hashirama using filler. Stopped right there 15:16.
It’s not filler. It’s anime canon.
@@JohanLiebert-ch6bm typical
@@infamousof3008 big fucking difference
@@JohanLiebert-ch6bm the difference is, it is canon💀 an example of what’s canon and what’s not within Naruto.
What’s not canon: team 7 fighting Raiga in part one Naruto. That’s non canon.
What’s canon: the time travel arc in Boruto is canon. Every arc in Boruto is canon. None of anything within the Boruto anime is non canon.
@infamousof3008 as long Koji does not bring up fighting kakashi in the manga. I'm sorry my guy.
NGL I thought Hashirama had this in the bag but I sometimes forget Boruto Scaling is INSANE even when it comes to someone else than Naruto and Sasuke
@@pullsane thanks for being open minded its hard to accept and understand the power growth but once you do then you get that kakashi high diffs
If everyone is multiple times stronger in boruto so the story can make money by extension if hashirama existed in boruto or is back he will be more powerful as well
@@derekseago9647scaling is off mj and LeBron is still a debate to most people the idea that not even a top 5 strongest shippuden character like Sakura is so strong all of the sudden and now kakashi who’s levels should of only increased a bit are now jubbidara level is just cringe and a sell out for money.
@@Eagle20mids u can hate idc. feats and statements r still valid
@@derekseago9647 it’s a logic fail if the previous scaling would of never allowed c ranked characters to be better then jubbidara and all of sudden medic ninja are better then the whole previous verse then by extension the previous scales and feats can provide zero intel on characters strength as they can be 1000000x at the drop of hat for no reason. Pre kagyua scaling is the only valid scaling
11:21 That's nowhere near his best physical durability feat lol. He tanked Kakuzu's Wind style pressure damage jutsu that desecrated the surrounding forest then tanked three of Pain's Shinra Tensei, the last of which generated enough force to wipe out a man of Choza's size completely. That V2 Jinchuuriki smack was nothing short of a tickle for him.
Buddy used pre war feats like theyre relevant 😂
@@darryelphillip5219 i mean that shinra tensei feat is kinda crazy considering he's much weaker before the war arc
I know all the Jinchuriki don’t scale the same but considering what a V2 Naruto did to Pain and face tanked a Shinra Tensei with no damage, Kakashi taking a hit from a V2 Jin that scale to War Arc B and KCM Naruto is definitely ridiculously above merely wiping a forest or even the full power Shinra Tensei that Pain released on the village
@@darryelphillip5219They're very relevant. Unless you want to explain why they aren't.
@@jocoolshow Cushioning a tail whack from a V2 Jinchuuriki is impressive since Sakura instantly collapsed & began bleeding from the same blow (chapter 296, page 10), but not nearly as impressive as cushioning a Wind-Style jutsu that makes the one Temari used to kill Curse Mark Tayuya look like a gust of wind.
Kakuzu's Wind-Style pressure damage jutsu discharged several times more destructive capability than the Shinra Tensei Pain used on Kyuubi Naruto. And tanking Three Shinra Tensei in the same fight is a greater durability feat than any durability feat Bee's independently displayed.
Kakashi losing his ability to use the Lightning Blade has always been weird to me. Like Minato and Ay don't seem to struggle to react when moving at high speed but War Arc Kakashi can't? It just doesn't make any sense.
It is weird, but Hidari in Boruto says it’s difficult to control without the sharingan
It's not that Kakashi loses the ability to use it, it's that the technique causes tunnel vision which makes it hard to react to incoming counterattacks and so he would be reckless to use it.
Kakashi in the war is fast but he clearly lacked the reflexes that Minato possesses and most of his "speed" feats come from teleportation anyway, which is more similar to summoning jutsu than body flicker.
As for Ay, he moves at very high speeds but he funnels lightning Chakra into his own body before being able to do so. It's explained that when he fought Sasuke in his v2 cloak, his body reacts on its own without him even needing to think.
Whats weird to me is that Kakashi never thought of developing a different lightning style technique despite having such talent. I know he made raikiri variations but I mean a completely different base technique.
@@chadbushell yaeh but Kakashi should easily have the reaction time to pull it off, at least with some training. I mean if he could get as powerful as he was as a Hokage and develop Purple Lightning he should be able to train up his reaction time as well.
@@teezy786 it creates blind spots still. and why would he use it now if he has a perfected version.
the stronger u are, the stronger and presumably faster the chidori gets so the tunnel vision still applies
Sage has an encyclopaedic knowledge of the novelisation feats and statements its scary 😂
@spicyboi544 yet when i bring them up im “glazing”
@ crzy
💀
naw fr hashirama is not losing idgaf of you include dms kakashi cuz thats literally the ONLY version of him that even compares
Lmk when you watch the video
You should do Itatchi/kisane vs pain and Konan
Kakashi vs hashirama is a slaughter not a fight. The answer is pretty obvious. Hashirama clears, the god of Shinobi 🎉
Lmk what you think after watching the video
dog didn't you say this vid was coming out in like October I been wating for this 😭
I got you finally haha
Boruto Era Kakashi one shots Hashirama
Hell no dms yes
@@rageikku9398 did u not watch the video ?
Is hokage kakashi stronger than teen six paths naruto and sasuke atleast in raw stats?
Kashin Koji is far stronger than Toneri who is stronger than Kaguya who is more powerful than Naruto and Sasuke.
No
@@GeneFOX70 Toneri stronger than Kaguya?
in speed hes far faster. has 53 percent the chakra levels of the nine tails. prolly on a similar tier of strength as that naruto. durability is at least 100 times what is was during wa and in wa he tanked a rasengan from sage minato . kakashi takes iq and biq and exp. he takes kenjutsu taijutsu. ap is multi continental level. dc is country- continental level. so prolly on the same tiet
Yes
I havent watched the video yet, but if its going where I think its going then already a great video. Hashirama is the third strongest overal
In speed? Absolutely, in terms of destructive ability with jutsu? Probably. In terms of pure striking power? Absolutely not.
@EeveetoUmbreon25 a Chidori can realistically never have as much destructive power as a thousand hand skyscraper jutsu but he would totally win a hand to hand fight
@@bonzoluvfire mist jutsu is tho
Damn bro you cooked. Good shit. And to the idiots out there who think the novels aren’t canon still, go kick rocks
Thanks my guy! 🙏🏼
This scaling is nearly perfect. Hashirama gets one shot at this point by a lot of characters. Power creep sucks but it’s just cold hard facts. Nice job. 👍🏽
@@fgew902 thank you!
Didn’t Edo Madara stomp Edo Hashirama’s clones but then proceeds to lose to the actual real one? Is that an argument against clone relativity?
@@MrVeekz the point was about relativity in physical speed, not power output
@@sageofthickcalves Is speed in the Naruto world relative to the ammount of chakra one has? For example, if i have more chakra than you does that make me faster than you? (sort of how Ki is in Dragon Ball)
How is speed increase achieved in the Naruto universe? Shouldn't i be able to do a bigger and better Body Flicker if i have more chakra?
@ no definitely not. Kakashi has less chakra than Naruto in the whole series, but he’s faster than him for most of it
Kakashi has a chance beating Hiruzen. Hashirama no one will touch him besides Naruto (and possibly Minato had he survived)
@@Sg190th hes prime hiruzen on steroids . i mean just look at the different at both their most powerful jutsus which is fire style
@@derekseago9647 If you mean Kakashi, then yeah that's crazy considering his affinity is lightning. Surely he could have come up with deadly lightning jutsu akin to his student.
@@Sg190th hiruzens fire style got countered by tobirama while kakashis is overpowering a country amount of hagoromos chakra
Would love to see a video Scaling Shin Uchiha
below adult sakura
@aymanriki1018 how far below?
We’re supposed to believe that the reincarnation of Ashura. The guy who was called the God of Shinobi and hailed the strongest Shinobi of all time up until Six paths characters is weaker than Chojoru and Korutsuchi because they fought Kinshiki and didn’t win …………….How does that narratively even make sense.
Every kage/kage level shinobi before Boruto era is now ass with this type of scaling.
@@217superninja it’s just how the scaling works tbh. You could defend it by arguing a ninshu amp, but that’s something I’ll get into down the line
but how many Hashirama cells does Kakashi have tho? 🤔
doesnt need any
sage, how do you feel about hokage kakashi being able to destroy that meteor after the retsuden events? in the last he couldn't do it, but what about now?? love your videos man!
Thank you! I still think it would be tough because his kit isn’t suited for AOE (area of attack) feats. He’s more precise and survival than big boom go bang. If you look at what happened with Nue, he slices through Nue’s tail like butter, so the attack potency for his Shiden is off the charts, but the destructive capacity isn’t crazy high by comparison.
@@sageofthickcalves i think his best bet would be to focus all of the Chakra on his hand and use the Shiden, something similar to what he did on the Kakashi Hiden novel but instead of sending lightning bolts to create a thunderstorm he would focus all of the Chakra to amp the potency of his attack. Another scenario i imagined would be to use something smilitar to the earth walls he created to protect an entire village in the Retsuden novel but instead focus all of it to create something like a dome made out of earth or quartz to at least protect the village from the damage. It seems unrealistic maybe but he even got the terrain advantage with the mountains on the village. With the amount of Chakra that he has now, i don't think it's impossible, tell me how you feel about these two possibilities if you can please.
@ yeah I just don’t think it’s designed to work that way. Area of effect has never been his strong suit
hokage kakashi claps ngl
Kakashi > Kakuzu, who survived a fight with Hashirama, meaning Kakashi at LEAST stomps
That's why i don't want to watch Boruto.
Honestly, how do you justify Kakashi having as much chakra as Naruto (Uzumaki+son of the 4th hokage+9tail) and Hashirama(reincarnation of Ashura).
Dude went from struggling with Kakuzu, getting Stomp by Pain, somehow manage to fight Obito and Now you are telling me that he beat Hashirama.
It doesn't make sense to me storywise.
For Guy i can understand he was always stated to be a menace ans since 8th gate kills him, it justify the power boost. However for Kakashi it's just fan service.
@@edouard9867 you should watch my Kakashi is Underrated vide. It explains how cracked Kakashi was as a kid, and why he got nerfed
Kakashi was always a centre point of scaling villians and was stated multiple times by a lot of people to be the elite of elite ninjas/genius prodigy. He became genin when he was 5, chunnin when he was 6, jonin when he was 9/10 and you're saying that this boost in power was not justified?
@@juno.8-8 YES,
By that logic Minato and Itachi should be stronger than Kakashi because they are both more talented.
So both of them should be Hashirama level.
@@edouard9867 who said they are more talented?
@@sageofthickcalves Was he stronger than kid Minato, Itachi and Neijj ?
Should they all be Hashirama level if they didn't die ?
Naratively it still don't make any sense to me.
It's like when they changed the narrative with Hiruzen. He was supposed to be the strongest and they changed it.
They needed Kakashi to be relevent so they had to buff him.
Kakashi is a Legendary Ninja but Hashirama and Naruto should be outside scaling
kakashi duel EMS stronger than Hashirama
It wasn't EMS, he had sixth paths chakra with which granted more powers than EMS.❤🎉😊
When you look at the collateral damages in a high tier fight in boruto , it seems like boruto actually fixed the power creep that shippuden had since edo madara by nerfing the strongest characters , boruto as a verse is actually weaker than Shippuden
@@NirmanTamang DC ≠ AP. Boruto characters have far greater AP
@sageofthickcalves Most APs are directly parallel to DC especially blunt force and explosions , only sharp attacks and projectiles are different
@ that’s not true. For example, Black Frieza in Dragon Ball Super is clearly universal + by being able to one-tap DBS Goku and Vegeta, and yet the punches don’t even destroy the planet they’re on
damn those scalings show why I don't actively read Boruto anymore. if we are taking the anime for instance we can no cap say 1 tails kid Naruto body bags hashirma. or was it even 1 tail against that Outstutsuki with the fishing pole? And just the manga scale that doesn't have impossible recursions like that: Genin Boruto claps Hashirama. He managed to land a hit on Momoshiki. That's all you need to know to know Genin Boruto oneshots Juubidara if not Kaguya the father-son-Rasengan not even need. and yes I am trying to be disingenious and fail at that. This is a legit way to scale Kakashi who manhandled Boruto like a kage should manhandle a genin. Like: a damn random civilian can oneshot Kaguya now. Hashirama and the other tops of the verse lie Madara or Obito aren't even in the conversation. If a Boruto character fights a Naruto character. DBS characters vs Teletubbies is more reasonable
@@Metalhammer1993 the Naruto and Jiraiya stuff is an alternate timeline
Base Naruto being relative or above fused momoshiki and kaguya is just ridiculous.
I showed the scans of him being low rel to fused momo
Hokage Minato would beat Juubito and here is why:
1.AP>Dura: Minato oneshotted the Full Ninetails at 14, Sage Naruto blew Juubitos back out, but couldn't damage half of the ninetails.
2. Speed: Tobirama is shown to be able to blitz and content with Juubito. Tobirama admitted to being inferior to base minato, saying he's better with ftg and according to Tobirama, quick at striking too, implying a conjunction between these two statements. He's also better at bodyflicker, being shown when he arrived at the battlefield before all the other Hokage. Minato can also react to 8th Gate Gai with ftg.
3. Sealing: Minato can seal the full Ninetails without the reaper death seal, he only used the reaper to split the soul of the ninetails into yin and yang portions. The Tentails that Juubito uses has only 7 Bijuus worth of chakra, while full kurama has at least 10 Bijuus worth of chakra, because half kurama is able to overpower or equal out 5 Bijuus at the same time.
Potential Debunks: "Minato even in kcm couldn't do much against Juubito, Tobirama>kcm Minato" -> Minato had a stupor during most of the fight, Tobirama only scales relative to a minato with a stupor. Tobirama admitted that Base Minato is superior to him. So Base Minato>KCM Minato with a stupor.
"Minato didn't oneshot kurama" -> If he didn't oneshot kurama he and kushina would have died. Minato overpowering the Bijuudama and pushing kurama back is the last thing we see before Minato wakes up in the hospital.
In conclusion: Hokage Minato would blitz Juubito with A, a Sage Rasengan and oneshot him or B, blitz him and seal him up.
Yeah, no. Base Naruto isn’t relative to Momo or Kaguya
Base Naruto fights Momoshiki in the manga
@ that means Momoshiki was extremely holding back
The same way Kinshiki was objectively holding back against the kage
They don’t really scale to Momoshiki’s power, they scale to his taijutsu while his rinnegan dwarf’s.
What they do is exploit his weakness, not overcome him through power
He is in Taijutsu at least but he can react to him just fine
@@HC-gm4fomomoshiki was not holding back in speed
I love to see any video hyping up the GOAT Kakashi
FINALLY
I just started the Kakashi retsuden novel, so I'll be skipping the last part of the vid.
Make sure to come back and lmk what you think!
@sageofthickcalves No problem.
@sageofthickcalves Okay, I finished the book. First, I just want to say that it was worth the read. Really love Kakashi and Nanara's dynamic through out the story.
Finished your video, and it's really solid. I always look at promotional blurbs with a grain of salt so I wouldn't take the "strongest teacher" statement at face value, but even disregarding that the evidence for Kakashi being stronger then Hashirama is clear.
@ thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed the novel and my video 🙏🏼 I’ll be streaming soon so come hop in for a bit
I do not like the novel feats at all, but even then Kakashi contradicts the feats anyway when he states he was basically nerfed ever since losing his sharingan
@@aymanriki1018 not liking the feats doesnt mean they are not valid.
@@derekseago9647 unless kakashi novel is adapted to manga, it can be regarded as not valid since its not written by kishimoto
@@aymanriki1018 not really tho. since its approved by kishimoto and the publishers to be cannon material unless it contridicted the manga which it does not.
We gotta leave the old top tiers in the past 😂
Good video as always but I think this is the first one I can't agree with fully.
I agree that Kakashi has gotten way stronger and developed a lot of nasty jutsu in the blank period, but Hashirama has a lot of large scale techniques that a mud wall couldn't handle. Shinsu senju is the most broken sage art and is such a violent technique that no amount of Chakra reserves will bail out Kakashi.
You mention a lot of Hashirama durability feats, but Kakashi doesn't have anything crazy going for him either, and Hashirama has regen abilities that surpass the technique that the strongest current kunoichi (Sakura) uses which is hundred healing technique.
So Kakashi may have gotten more boom boom bang bang since the 4th war, but I'm not convinced that anything he has is a death threat unless he scores direct hits like with his new fire style. Yea it wiped out a so6p powered tool, but what are the odds of him colliding with a seasoned ninja and fellow Hokage fully with such a technique? They would all at the very least be able to react to it or dodge.
I think Hashirama still has the edge, but Hokage Kakashi won't make it boring.
Kakashi taking attacks from Koji who can harm Jigen is his best durability feat, Hashirama got ran through by Unstable Juubito.
At no point did Koji ever attacked kakashi seriously, he didn’t even attack him at all honestly, as for Jigen please put things in to context koji lost the only reason he even put a good fight against Jigen is because he had pre planned, Jigen wasn’t even taking him seriously like y’all really like to dick ride
@@chadbushell unfortunately i created an essay for you and youtube deleted it. i spent a lot of time and effort too😭😭. anyways i basically just said and proved how fire mist jutsu counters and is >= hashiramas 1000 hands and how kakashi can use it to potentially kill or create an opening for a killing attack . and more but im not tryna do allat for it to get deleted again
@@derekseago9647 again, what is the killing attack?
@@GeneFOX70 if I go and wrestle with a child, does that mean the child is as strong as I am?
Kakashi and Koji had a two second long scuffle in which a kunai was slashed, a clone was canceled and then a smoke bomb was used as Koji retreated. He didn't try anything, whatsoever, against Kakashi.
I dont understand why kakashi is in the same sentence of hashirama. Did I miss something in boruto?
@@ahmedxkhan watch the video 🫡
Put this into perspective for me will ya. Are you saying old man hokage kakashi could defeat and capture every tailed beast one by one? So he could also take on every villain including Madara by himself? probably excluding kaguya.
Yes
The people that disagree are the people that has never read the novels nor take their time to analyze the manga/anime😭
@@UnknownK4ge 🎯
Agreed except please dont tey to say Kakashi is steonger than Sauske. Multiple tumes its mentioned Naruto and Sauske are the strongest.