Using Gain-Master CB Antenna on 20m Band
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- Опубликовано: 11 окт 2023
- A Gain-Master CB (27MHz) antenna will tune on 15m and 20m - but how well do they work? Let's find out. More CB Antenna stuff here:
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That's not unexpected, but I'd like to see a 'gain master' made for 20m band now!
I second that...😊
There was an article few years ago in the Finnish Radio Amateur Leagues magazine about that, apparently it works really well (no surprise!)
Bugger off Jonathan! HAHA.. Actually, we COULD do that on the 18m pole..???
@@DXCommanderHQ😂
maybe its easier T2LT is just rg58 , know the lenght and its done. Ah and air choque@@DXCommanderHQ
I made a T2LT for 20m and was all I had when I was first licensed and I worked loads on it. Not bad for some RG58 and a bit of old down pipe lol.
I have T2LT for 10m and now Im thinking to make one for 20m and maybe for 15m
A good discussion Cal. There are MANY 11M people who are licensed hams and each side of the fence (licensed vs unlicensed) can learn from each other. 73
Absoluetly for me and my area it takes over a year and a half to even be able to take the test let alone get a course in person… I’m slowly acquiring ham gear while I study … currently looking at an icom 735 general coverage HF radio , I’m able to use it on 11m and won’t need to get a new base radio once I get my licence 😅 73s from NB Canada
Max 2000 for me performs extremely well often outperforming the 2 element Yagi mounted below it. I replaced the top section with 102”stainless whip which lowers resonance slightly but gave a better match on 12 and15 where it becomes a half wave. It will work on 17 also with higher losses so quality feeder is important but have worked vk and Zl on this band with 400w to compensate for loss.conclusion is its an excellent antenna for the higher bands.
I found the gainmaster design pretty good for the frequency that it's designed for as you have proven so I scaled it and made one for 2 meters and one for 4 meters with equally good results.
I appreciate any and all videos where the content is about antennas regardless. We can learn from all of it regardless the frequency or radio service that the antenna is designed for. Thank you.
I appreciate that!
I love these sort of experiments - keep them coming!
More coming!
WOW great demo here, to the point, thanks for this, love this antenna information you have going here, i subscribed
WELCOME!!
Yep, please do the test comparing the CB" antennas.
Tis the season finally for 10 and 12 meters. Thanks.
Great test Calum! Thanks.
No problem 👍
Hi Callum M7WLG here I did tests last year with all the major CB antenna including antron 99 and siro 2016. The winner was the Sirio Gainmaster 5/8 version. Best with receive and transmit and also best SWR they was all tested using the same coax and antenna installed at same height I just put 1 antenna up at a time for 1 month each and wrote down signals and swrs and all sorts the Sirio Gainmaster 5/8 was the Winner.
If you still have all the details (eg Spreadsheet) I would be very interested to see the numbers? You can look me up on QRZ or via the dxcommander website for email!
I did some experiments with (again) a Sirio Signal Keeper, 1/4 wave (with 3 radials) @ 12 mtrs AGL. I could work the best part of Europe on 10 & 20. Amazing. Let's keep on experimenting as a proper amateur! 73, PD0PSX
Cal, realy enjoy the real life experiments. More please
Hello DX Comander: Thank you for your antenna intro video into CB Radio, the 11 meter band. Here in N.J. I'm in the process of installung a SHOCKWAVE omnidirectional CB antenna on my garage on a 21 foot galvanized mast. Please note sir that I've been doing CB radio since 1965 at the age of 8 years old & I was also a ham radio operator for a while with a general + extra class. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on the pesky 11 meter band. Thank you sir, TMP, Unit 22 from N.J.
Thank you for the encouragement.. More to come.
Enjoyed this one!!
Awesome, thank you!
I use a basic half wave "silver rod" for 10&12 and it works great and did try it on 20 with my 10w and built in tuner and managed to make several decent (5/9) contacts but I wouldn't recommend it as the tuners taking the strain and the mis-match still exists
Great video. Would be nice to see more on CB antennas. I have an Antron 99 that’s excellent on 10, 12 and even good on 15. It’s my go to antenna for all 3 bands. Mine is up only 7 feet from the ground and no radials. I suspect the coil in the base uses the coax as a counterpoise lol.
The only good antenna is the i max 2000 5/8 wave it will tune on 28 mhz
Cal, very nice. The Starduster you revitalized is neat. Elevated radials, height off ground and multibanded. Definitely a great performer. As far as 11/10 meter antennas. The imax 2000 is a decent antenna at 24'4". The strongest in that class is the aluminum spt 500. With a much narrower bandwidth. You can increase bandwidth on the 500 by shortening it and then playing with the hairpin match. Doing that really didn't seem to hurt performance, and it still worked well. The Maco V58 would be a very close second. Back in the 90s I reworked a V58, made it 24 feet and got rid of the ring match and made a loading coil for it, all trial and error, as I didn't have an analyzer back then. Also I didn't use the radials. From 26 to 32 mhz I had 1.5 to 1.6 to 1 swr. It worked well. It might have had more bandwith, but that's all I had at the time to test. I then put it back to factory design and with a lot of testing as far as performance, it was very close to the same. You come up with neat stuff. Keep up the good work. 73
Great work!
I use a GainMaster 5/8th wave for 10/12m, got it about 7m off the ground and works very well, the only other band I've used it on is 6m because the band was open, the internal tuner on the FTdx10 could match it and I've nothing up for 6m. Like you said a CB antenna is a great way of getting on 10/12m especially if you've not much room to put stuff up.
I agree with you on the 11m antenna I just made a contact from Arkansas USA to Argentina on 10m using a tornado 5/8 wave 11m ground plane
Perfect!
Hi Callum, the same applies to indoor antennas too. We can tune it, but how far will it make it? Not very far
Brilliant video as always ! I have a GM up high doing nothing. Installed when I got into CB radio in 2020, before I got into Ham radio. Have not played with CB since and have a DX Commander installed. Might have a play again ! Mark, 2E0MSR.
Yes, it's a great alternative on 10m.. We're nearly at VHF so height really starts to count.
Would be interresting to see this comparison with an Antron99 or a Blizzard2700
Nice real-world test Callum 👍🏻Liking my DIY coax “gain master” 5/8ths in the tree 🌳
Nice one Ian! You have one too?
@@DXCommanderHQ Yes Callum. Uses a ferrite for a balun. Three series videos on channel (build, test, tree install) 👍🏻
I use an Antron 99 on 10 and 12 with just 10w out the back of the radio and have had some impressive results. Some 5/8 reports into the USA and Asia 👍🏼
Yes, I think all these production models work very well on 10m and 12m.. Agree.
I have a imax 2000 at 30 feet and does great , always have good reports
Yeah.. Me too. Works very well (at home).
Yep, this is an interesting exercise.
Hello callum love your videos keep up the great work. I was wondering if you had ever tryed using a maco 5/8 cb antenna thay are awesome proformers and are very strong I suspect that thay would work great on 10-12 meters with lots of low angle radiation
Not tried.. No.
Love what you are doing. Ham licensed technician in the USA and very very interested in 11 m. A nebula with an 11 m element or some new one as the starduster or whatever you want to call it. We need one over here. Would buy one soon thanks.
Make a dx commander for CB bands frequency’s that would be cool
Hello Lord Callum,
My tests of the hamstick type antenna for 20 meters in a dipole configuration to be surprisingly good.
Our video has had lots of very nice comments about both of us. Who knew? 73 from CA
JIM!! I will go check that out my old friend :)
Callum, I am an avid SWL listener and former HAM, I do enjoy your videos because you emphasize the importance of antenna’s receiving capabilities. A mismatched or poorly built/deployed antenna could significantly limit you ability to receive signals. Tuning a mismatched antenna is just protecting the radio, but not making the antenna better. If you could run a similar experiment with the Sirio New Vector 4000 for 27-28.5 MHz which an excellent vertical for CB.
Good point!
Hi Cal, I use 5/8 Gainmaster on the free band frequencies, I would like to know your opinion on the difference between aluminium and fibreglass cb antennas
OK, doesn't matter because inside the fubreglass, is the conductive material.. Basically, which one is going to last longtest (probably!)
Your experiment is very welcome because there are a lot of stations on 10m that actually use a Gainmaster. Myself included. And i have already experienced that the classical Gainmaster only works well on 10 and 12. Therefore, i have another Gainmaster, made for 15m. It's of course much longer, but it has a absolutely great performance. Most stations i'm talking to think i am on a beam. Anyway, a comparison between those classic CB verticals you have mentioned in your last video would be very interesting. You would increase your audience too- those "CB only" guys would take attentions to your channel. I also have to add, that there are CB verticals that are not RF grounded, and i believe they do a lot better on bands they are not constructed for compared to a gainmaster.
Interesting!
Hello from Western NY,
Since you’re experimenting on 20-meters, have you ever field-tested the 20-meter half square? I watched your video on modeling the antenna, but haven’t seen it field tested and it’s perfect for small gardens, too.
Rich
KA2VCW
Half-square. Only modelled it.. I gave up after realising there are better solutions (for me)
I suspect on 20m the coax stub means the Gainmaster just looks like a short at the end of the run of coax. To a lesser extent the same will be true on any other band outside the design bandwidth. I have a homebrew Gainmaster and I can just about get 12m and the lower half of 10m within an acceptable SWR bandwidth.
Yes 12m worked quite well I felt.. Lower and it faded fast.
I’ve ran many 11m verticals over the years and they all perform fairly similar. Your experiment is pretty consistent with what I’ve done trying them on 15, 17 and 20. Not great performers on those bands but they work. Imax 2000 seems to have a little more bandwidth. One thing I don’t like about CB verticals though and cb antennas in general is how they’re advertised by the wattage. A lot of naive CBers still think more wattage means better performance. I have a friend still stuck in this mode (we both came from cb in the 90s) and when I told him about the dx commander first thing out of his mouth was “how many watts” 🤦🏻♂️
You make a very good point!
Signal itself is less important than signal to noise ratio. Wonder what the difference is in the noise with no signals?
for receive (only!) you could loosen the antennaplug so only the coax centre is connected.
! Yes :)
Oh yes please antenna comparison .back in the day I wondered if the sigma 4 , gp27 1/2 wave and 5/8 , thunder pole was as good as folk made out to be..
Well, how about DX Commander DX MAX series. Mono band 5/8 verticals😊
@DX Commander which antenna is better for cb? Is it the Gainmaster from Sirio or the President Himalaya? The GainMaster is more in length as the President Himalaya which is about 5 meter 28cm where the GainMaster is almost 7 meters? Thanks for any reply!
OK.. I'm not into antenna wars but if I was doing this again, GainMaster.
@@DXCommanderHQ Thanks for the reply my friend !
Would that gainmaster antenna fit on the 7 meter pole you offer? If it does will it free stand on top of a tower if i place a fiberglass stub in the lower section?
I would clamp the pole to the stub of course
JUST yes.. It would better to lift it up a tiny bit, say a 10m.
What about the Maco cb antenna
Hi Callum! Congrats on your vids. I woth love to see this type of test in IMAX 2000 with radial kit on it. They clame to do 3 times 5/8 on 11m and 2 times 5/8 on 10m band!! 73s de CS7AIK ;)
I am going to try and collect some CB antennas...
is a 17m 5/8th (tuned well) possible on a 40/15 meter vertical. the calculations are the same… 32ft 5-3/8in for 7.212 (1/4), 18.030 (5/8) and 21.630 (3/4)
Yes, the dimensions are similar - but you have to match it.
My tuner (in the radio) only tunes TX and not RX, how is your tuner ?
Well, to be honest (and I could write a whole chapter about this) a tuner would NOT have helped in this instance. The antenna itself will not operate at those frequencies - so you would not have been able to peak the receive.
GM is awesome for 10,11,12m but ive lost 3 over the years in my coastal location in eastern Northern Ireland. They dont cope with wind very well. Now using a Maco V58A.
is that the switch the guy (ham) in the US made for you?
Not that one.. John make me the triangular array which is holding me back because I need to be able to control it from home. John has some ideas for me..
The coaxstub is shorten the signal on other bands then where it was made for..
I know a half wave 11m Station Master Mark 1 works quite well on 20 15 10 and 6 de vk2pwr
Resonance is very important.
Shakespear 2010 5/8 wave coaxial sleeved vertical dipole made for marine ,I had one but it was hit with lighting bolt cuz I didn't have it isolated from the tree it was in 😀thanks calum and 73
Oh wow!
@@DXCommanderHQ ocf 👍
I used to live in a quite restricted space where I could barely put up any antennas at all and worked 20m for quite the while with Solarcon/Antron A99 at about 4 meters up (until it broke). Not the best obviously, but better than not having antenna at all.
In my current location I have way more space and possibilities, but have still only a CB antenna at the moment at about 8-9 meters up. First had a cheap 1/2-wave aluminium "Venom" (it broke), then a Gainmaster 5/8 (it was already half broken, then it broke completely), now some cheap 1/2-wave aluminium no-name antenna (still up).
All of them "work" on 20m with a tuner, but obviously none of them are great. I have had a QSO with Callum with the current cheapo antenna. Not optimal, but again, better than no antenna at all.
All this rambling just to say that would be very interesting to see a proper comparison between a few different CB-antennas! Maybe add a cheapo aluminium 1/2--wave or 5/8, if available.
I would like that too. I might buy all of them - and ask for a dollar each to pay for the experiment!
@@DXCommanderHQ Just had a look, hot damn have the prices gone up since I last checked! If you are seriously considering doing a shootout, I'll gladly chip in a few € to lessen the sting!
I use solarcon a99 for 10 and it will tune 20 meters with external tuner and will talk DX good in my experience.
My horizontal dipole sux on 10 and 11 though
Stick a ground vertical up for pennies strung up a tree with a few scattered radials on the ground and compare it. You may be in for a surprise.
@@DXCommanderHQ do you have a video on this? Will the antenna ground itself on a tree? Thanks Callum
be nice to see some horizontal yagis
Need bigger field.
yes please
Great comparison. ATU only works for TX as you know. No matters if it tunes the RX will be exactly the same, does not change at all
Indeed.. The point was it "tuned" for TX but no point in trying to transmit since receive was so awful anyway! LOL
I guess plonking a SGC tuner at the feedpoint would’ve helped a fair deal.
In this case, no Tim :)
Many years ago I used to enjoy trolling at the local radio club, many people had poor results on 10m and maybe did not even notice. I told them "you want to see what the CBers are using". Not entirely flippant, CBers are stuck on one band and they have to make the best of it, so they do. I am too old to be fighting for the very last 1dB but 10dB is worth some effort. Would be interesting to see a fan vertical for maybe 10m, 12m, 15m at the top of the pole with a single radial per band. I suspect it may work rather well. 73
Ah yes.. Did you see my "Starduster" hybrid? I think you did. Similar thinking..
@@DXCommanderHQ Yes, it worked well, but I think a set of band specific radials might give it the edge.
Why would you do it ? Cb not gonna perform good due to wrong length
Here's me thinking it was an experiment!
So, surprisingly an aerial works best in Bands it's designed for.
Hahaha! Yes!
Gain master is good for 10 meter go very well
My sirio 2016 works perfect on 20m.
Definition of "perfect" :)
@@DXCommanderHQ well, you know, tuner on etc. To be honest it's 50/50 on 20m with my 40m hw endfeed which doesn't need as much tuning lol. But it works.
Calum u tuned the sug 12 on 15M not the gain master
Well spotted - but I left it in because also hit the ATU correctly on 20m which is even worse.. :)
I thought you said gaymaster, I'm not googling that again.
Oh! FFS! hahahaha :)
Hahahaha 😂 I've used a cb antenna for years and worked the world from 20m to 10m IMAX 2000 with a tuner. This has to be the worst comparison video I've watched. I think you need to check your home brew antenna.
I think you need to suck it up and put a REAL antenna up for 20m then come back!
Hahaha listen to her just because your mate made you a dummy load aka gain master. There are thousands of amateurs world wide use "CB" antennas without issue on 20m to 10m and the Imax 2000 does it without a problem. Also amateurs with limited space and funds its perfect they can get on hf. If your gonna do comparisons buy a cb antenna like the Imax 2000 or Sirio 827 and don't use one your mate knocked up on a Friday night after half a bottle of gin.