Underlabs theory’s aged like actual spoiled milk that somehow acts like it’s slime I don’t hate underlab with a passion but most videos were made in crackpots hoping it worked cause of how absurd they are
These theories were made in the early stages of UT early enough people didn't even know half of how the game actually worked, so I wouldn't blame anyone for having a stupid theory (besides the sans is Ness that thing is completely unforgivable)
39:06 the theory is dogshit but it just gave me the idea that undyne wears an eyepatch not because of something happening to it, but because of the chuunibyou trope in anime where they wear an eyepatch to seal their powers, with undyne actually thinking that's a way humans are so strong
So... Undyne's eyepatch was actually designed by Alphys to feed in her Magic so she can block her immense power!? Maybe she even has mental blocks that don't allow her to unlock her full potencial in dear she would never enjoy battle again!
Love this interpretation that she's wearing an eyepatch because she thinks it might make her stronger because of the anime she's seen. Could also be her just thinking it looks cool
10:43 OMG PAPYRUS DOES NOT FUCKING HATE PUNS, HE MAKES 11 BONE PUNS IF YOU GO THROUGH EVERY DIALOG OPTION WHILE SANS MAKES 9, SO IT IS PROBABLY THAT HE HATES SANS USING THEM IN THE CONTEXT HE DOES
Theory n.2 also completely ingores that in genocide route you have to GRIND to kill as many monsters as possible, until you get the "But nobody came" message. That's why you propably can't get the genocide route by accident. And also, by Waterfall it's shown that the human is starting the encounters (with the ! icon turning into =), showing that you're not suprised to see a monster, you're glad to see another target). So you're not the one fighting in self-defense, they are.
Just as much as magic is the explanation for anything unexplained in medieval Europe. Gaster is the explanation for anything the Undertale community doesn't know about
Okay. Underlab theorizing what the castle in Waterfall was for Papyrus to interject with "That's the king's castle." followed immediately with awkward silence was WAY funnier than it had any right to be.
can we talk about how fucked that “Chara’s soul is in the true lab generator” thing is like “yes hello royal scientist here is my dead child’s soul, please use it to power your experiments, teehee” like yeah I’m sure asgore would be very open to that idea
If it is true (which it probably isn't), it was probably more encouraged by Gaster as he'd have to reason with Asgore that it was possibly the only effective fuel source they had for the generator. Def wouldn't have been Asgore's idea, since he's not a technical person at all
@@CharaDreemurr_TheyThem Speaking of souls shattering after death, it doesn’t make sense how we leave in neutral runs without Asgore’s being obtainable.
@@wildfire9280 My theories are: Flowey somehow gave us the power to go through (for some reason, he probs didnt though because he doesnt give af about anyone) The human souls gave us the power (somehow, its in character but a human cant absorb human souls) Our soul is stronger than a normal human's, which means we're able to go through (plot armor core, probably the most likely explanation because Frisk has insane plot armor, like they just so happen to have more DT than a flower with multiple human's DT combined) Or Flowey, by bringing us into his world thing, accidentally placed us into it, meaning we could fully get out but couldn't go back (after we spare/kill Flowey we can't go back, but we can go forward, and we are in a room ahead of the barrier room. This is unlikely but it definitely has the slightest bit more of evidence compared to the others)
@@CharaDreemurr_TheyThemI think the last theory is the most likely. Flowey warps reality when he absorbs the SOULs and it’s possible that when they return, they’re misplaced on the other side of the barrier. When you start the game up and load Flowey’s file, you walk upwards for a few seconds to reach the save point (and you don’t really move from that spot for the rest of the fight) so maybe that’s the point where you (unknowingly) walk past the barrier that currently doesn’t exist.
I hate people thinking that sans is strong. He isn't. Quite the opposite. He's clever, but he's weak. He manipulates game mechanics to try, but he KNOWS he can't beat you. He's stalling for time. And that's why his battle is so genius. He's not a boss. Just some smart rando who can't afford not to care anymore.
@@wowie-zowie Papyrus just didn’t fight the human, undyne says he’s pretty strong too. The got killed in Snowdin, if he survived long enough he could have saw and did something.
I remember Underlab and how much of an impact it had on me. Some of its videos are just ingrained in my brain now. Honestly, though, sometimes the theories were very far-fetched, like you said now that I'm looking back at them, but hey, wasn't there a point of time where some of us thought sans was Ness 💀
You believe in what you're making videos about. These videos on the other hand are just clickbait videos based on 2 paragraph reddit posts stretched out for 10 minutes living off of Undertale hype
I remember hearing a theory that Muffet’s employer is actually just a very poorly executed joke Someone paid for her to fight you She was a kickstarter reward, so someone paid for her to be in the game And yknow what that’s what i’m choosing to believe tbh
I never got how so many people in the early days of the fandom thought Chara and the six other fallen humans had fallen into the Underground within a relatively close time span. It’s outright stated several times that several monsters don’t even know what humans look like. Bratty and Catty are the most prominent example of this, not to mention all the random NPCs that don’t even bat an eye at Frisk being a Human, or (I think) some NPC in Hotland thinking Frisk was the result of special effects on Mettaton’s show and not recognizing them at all in the flesh.
Is based guy secretly gay? Let’s take a look at the evidence! First, in his “who is the best mommy in the multiverse”, calming waterfall music plays implying he isn’t interested in getting a mommy for himself, not only that but he says that his favorite mommy is the male sans undertale! My second piece of evidence is him spending 30 minutes talking about how much he loves TS! crossbones, now he could just mean this platonically but I believe he is pursueing a romantic relationship with sans undertale because he loves men!
I feel like this is a consequence of trying to read undertale in a way that removes the Player as an entity in the story itself and just read it as Frisk being in full control. All the player's abilities to interact with the game are textual to the story itself. YOU as a character in the narrative are never in any danger. Killing the monsters is a matter of mild inconvience, not life or death.
the monster is evil thing is stupid but the genocide route is very justified i mean these monsters killed and captured children its only fair they suffer for such a evil crime
@@thatoneyoutubechannel9139 that's the stupidest reasoning i've read, how is slaughtering an entire race (children, mothers, fathers, papyrus) because of a king's actions justified ? you don't get to have the moral high ground when you're that deranged, this is not self defense. not to mention that it's the humans who trapped them undeground and left them to die to begin with, so even in that case they're the dipshits in the story.
@@thatoneyoutubechannel9139 It's dumb to try and boil the situation down to a pure black and white. To get OUT of the underground in the first place either Toriel or Asgore would have to let themselves be killed, so even if the monsters weren't gathering human souls it's not as if they could just let them leave easily. It's fucked up to kill kids but also it's far more fucked up to imprison an entire race until possibly the end of time. Like if this were real life and this was a real thing that happened historians would go "I mean killing kids is fucked up but it's not as if anyone on earth would have the moral scruples to not do that in this situation". Also fleeing from battles is a free action in undertale, you can just do that. Frisk is also textually immortal, there is not a 'canon' ending in the game that has them die for real, and that's not even touching upon the fact Frisk is in turn being controlled by an immortal god being that cannot in any way be harmed by the monsters.
@@thatoneyoutubechannel9139 Don't tell me you're applying Undertale Yellow's vengeance run to Undertale's genocide run. The name of each should clue you in as to their motive and justifiability.
You can be a crack theorist while still making bad theories The Woody Theory surprisingly had some merit to it despite being utterly insane and something I don’t think will happen for Deltarune, with Toby’s use of random tumblr stuff he has no qualms referencing in DR (man.ogg for example), the general setting of Chapter 3, and the way he worded the cancellation of a certain segment Saying that the undead looking monsters were the fallen humans based on circumstantial evidence and heavy characterization bias is not only an insane idea, but one that is backed poorly by bad evidence
not sure if Sans can really be called "powerful", his whole thing is that he's the weakest monster and that the fight is made difficult by him "cheating" (dodging, ignoring s, poison, putting attacks in the menu)
He is powerful in its own right. Being able to cheat and exploit like he does is powerful and smart in its own right. Like the menu attacks, extending his turn indefinitely, un dodge me attacks (only Flowey and Sans are shown to do these. With betrayal kills or attacks that you can’t dodge but can’t seem to kill you by themselves. Though they can bring u down to really low HP), dodging, etc. Teleporting, time stop imo, bones, GB’s, poison/KR, blue soul mode magic, lowering of IV’s, etc. are all quite powerful too. And for the most part, aren’t really cheating by themselves; though he can use them to cheat. So yeah, Dans is powerful in his own right. Also, the flavor text never said “the weakest monster (which is neither truce by in game or coded stats or from well, what he shows he can do to us in his fight), it says “the easiest enemy”. Which is just obviously not true. I know level of difficulty is subjective. But I’m sure most can agree that this isn’t true. That flavor text seemed more supposed to be ironic than anything and throw u off-guard. And biased in a way, because the narrator isn’t always right on everything. Imo.
@@Dragon_Aoi i misremembered the flavor text, but he very much lacks in physical qualities considering he only has 1 HP, 1 defense and 1 attack (seen by how his attacks only deal 1 damage per tick along KR) along with poor stamina (he's known to be lazy and get tired easily, you can see how he decides to go to sleep after a few turns of dodging attacks) the way i see it is that Sans knows how to use the tools he has to make himself a formidable monster in spite of his actually low physical qualities, raw strength isn't everything that matters when it comes to being a threatening combatant
4:41 Not only ignoring the Ruins Dummy, but also the three dummies that talk to us in New Home and the fact that Napstablook mentions they have a family.
What's funny about the first theory is that they could have associated the ghosts with different traits that fit them more like mad dummy attacks you recklessly to the point of accidentally hitting herself and she's the dummy Undyne uses to practice so why not say they are bravery? The ruins dummy never moves why not say they are patience? Why not switch Mettaton and Napstablook? Like it's still a big strech and not true but I think there are better ways to do it lol.
Unfortunately I feel that kinda just describes a large chunk of the UT fandom in general, especially with how little of the ACTUAL lore/information given by the game is actually used. I should note, Undertale is NOT subtle about its setting barring anything involving Gaster, and a lot of the "fanon" utilised by the fandom is pretty easily disproven by the game's own dialogue (like how people just... *ignore* how LOVE and EXP work despite both sans AND a book in the Librarby explaining how it works, and the effect it has on monsters).
Yea alphys was litelray depressed becuse of the experiments with determination but now she would inject the person she cares about with the same think that causes the catastrophe that is the experiment
I remember watching the "Geno is justified" video years ago before I played undertale and thought that it was a stretch, but now with actual knowledge of the game, it's funny how badly they justify it and conveniently leave out stuff they can't explain
I always read Monsters attacking Frisk as one of two things, the first being out of obligation, the second reason is this, monsters mistaking Frisk as a new monster (because it's been so long since the sixth human fell) introducing themselves through magic like they'd do a fellow monster.
about the plaques: it seems like they were actually written before Asriel or at least before Chara. "* But this cursed place has no entrances or exits. * There is no way a human could come here. * We will remain trapped down here forever." with how Asgore specifically calls out the NEW HOME barrier as "The Barrier" it seems like thats where they were sealed from and then they retreated through the mountain into HOME, and these plaques were written on the way there before they finally fully settled into HOME or any humans fell. later, seemingly after Chara's fall, they explored back out into the other places they intially trekked through, as stated in Monster History Part 4.
I actually like the 'theory' that the human monster war wasn't actually one sided and the one that a monster did kill and absorbed a human soul. Although that's mostly my personal preferences and the fact that there are genuinely bad monsters.
Thats just impossible if a monster did get to kill a human and absorb their soul the war is over the monsters won Remember Asriel could kill a whole armed village in the 2010s So a whole adult armed village and took enough blows to die to the point he could go to the flower bed and then go back to mount ebbot all while being constantly attacked and NEVER fighting back A monster who is actually fighting in the war would use that power to instantly kill 6 more humans and the war is over humans take way too long to kill a monster powered up with a soul with modern weapons let alone in the medieval times the war seemed to have happeend Also how would the war NOT be onesided ? A single human child with a stick can kill most of the monster population without any issue
@@danielgonzalez-vm5ljI mean im guessing the old humans were much stronger with there magic and shit than the monsters were even with an absorbed human soul and was strong enough to seal the rest of them underground with a strong barrier. Frisk a child could handle all the monsters in the underground now imagine what 5-10 adult humans with determination can do, the only reason i guess is that the old humans with no more wars to fight just lost the magic or took there magic to death with them, not teaching it to there future generations meaning magic just got lost to time, because it's hard to believe that the village near mt ebott would not use magic againsts a monster and just use pitch forks and other stuff instead of using there soul traits and humans who pass the barrier just awaken there soul trait magic somehow by being exposed to the monsters or smth.
@@dantheman9795 thats a stupid idea First its the middle ages nukes didnt exist yet and if they did no sane human would say oh we lost one soilder NUKE they need to authorize that and then set them and launch them Second it would kill countless humans too and leave thousands of souls around for any monster not caught in the blast to use Third it woudnt even take 5 seconds from the moment a monster gets a soul to the moment they become gods by killing 6 humans in a battlefield filled of them let alone the time a mage casts a " magic nuke " which a monster with 6 or 7 souls could just delete since they can alter reality itself as flowey did by changing THE NAME OF THE GAME or the INTRO
46:10 Always odd when people use scrapped/unused ideas to justify their theories. Like it's actually a canon piece of evidence even though the final version states the opposite clearly.
Funnily enough The 6 humans are probably kinda alive As they revolt over flowey and help us in the game And at the end of the pacifist route the 6 humans goes back to there bodies and leave(probably) But we see nothing about the undead monsters Heck we don't even how ghosts exist I'd say they're some kind of successful determination experiments gaster did on some monsters to make them resist death 5:
This is what I don't like about a lot of online theorists, Game Theory included. In order to try and craft their clickbait theories, they usually cherry-pick information that suits their argument and conveniently ignore anything that poses a threat to it. And technically these aren't theories, they should've been called hypothesizes. But I suppose calling them theories instead makes them sound stronger
Idk if it's just the fact that I wasn't so aware myself back then, but it felt like old game theory was much better about it, but yeah, I pretty much stopped watching them when I saw the "what's up with the paldean crater in pokemon Scarlet and Violet" short like less than a week after taking the time to read through all the classes in that game, and iirc their theory actively went against what you're literally directly told in the in game history class.
I wanna give my takes on each theory (obv spoilers): 1, Humans are undead monsters: The fallen humans? Most likely not. We see their souls still in containment, and it's likely that something would have to happen to the soul itself for a monster to come from it (perhaps decay or fragmentation? There's already nothing to suggest that human souls CAN become monsters (or even monster souls), so there would have to be more evidence for that specifically... There's a possibility that they could be older humans though, perhaps lost souls which found their way to the underground either before or after the war between humankind and monsterkind? I mean, some of their behavior does match up with human traits (and potentially alter traits if you think that's a thing), right? Sans = Patience (displayed both in his fight (both through his special attack and _MAYBE_ in his eye???) and through his multiple jobs of mostly waiting and occasionally doing something (could also be laziness/apathy)), Papyrus = perseverance (displayed through his many interactions with the human in which he tries to either capture or befriend the human (could also be naivety/ignorance)), Mettaton = bravery (displayed when mettaton tries to stop the human during the geno route even with an experimental body which might not work (could also be pride)), Napstablook = Kindness (displayed by their courteousness while interacting with them, and during their encounter where they lower their health to be nice), Mad Dummy = Justice (attacks you for what you did to the Ruins Dummy (could also be brashness/self-righteousness), Ruins dummy... Maybe integrity? That's what's left and it's pretty hard to tell their personality from the little we see of them. I could see becoming a monster taking a toll on your memories. How? Who knows. It could be that they also just choose not to bring it up or hide it from the player... I think UNDERLAB's theory leans far too heavily into the equipment found around the underground and the attacks in flowey's fight, rather than in the actual traits represented by each soul color. 2, Why Geno is JUSTIFIED: Nope. Killing monsters is only justified in a neutral route where the player does not go out of their way to kill monsters. If a monster surrenders then the player is not justified in killing it. The player is not justified in going out of their way to kill monsters, either. I could see (being in the shoes of a child here) not knowing when to stop and accidentally killing monsters when they would otherwise surrender? I could see it being hard to tell when some of them are weak if you don't have a health bar above their head to tell how much is left... UNDERLAB's justification for papyrus tells me they haven't played genocide before (or at least didn't pay attention). He doesn't attack you, he doesn't imply that he's gonna attack you... It's bull. And yeah, he did gloss over glad dummy and monster kid, both monsters that did not want to fight... 3, Are Sans and Papyrus REEEALLY brothers?: Most likely. I could see a couple arguments being made against that though, although there's nothing (at least to my knowledge) to support them. Here goes; - Sans and Papyrus are not 'blood' (not that they have any lol) related, rather they're adopted brothers. (This isn't really arguing that they AREN'T brothers, rather that they aren't blood related brothers). - Their backstory isn't well known, so we don't really know if they have any prior relations to eachother. (There's literally nothing to support this besides the residents of snowdin town saying that they just showed up one day). I think you covered why UNDERLAB's wrong well enough in the video, lol 4, Are monsters secretly evil?: Right now? Prrrobably not. In the past? Who knows? I don't think we get much lore about the war between humans and monsters besides that (according to the monsters) it likely happened due to humans being afraid of monsters being able to absorb souls, humans used magic to seal monsterkind away, and that's the reason why monsters are stuck underground. Besides, morality is a complex matter, especially between societies... It could be that this was the height of many other fears or conflicts which we did not know about, coming from both sides. I think that UNDERLAB made the argument about how the humans found out about monsters being able to absorb human souls incorrectly. How did the _humans_ find out about this? I mean, they found out somehow, right? Perhaps there was more conflict between these societies than the monsters are letting on... Underlab had no reason to bring up being able to absorb human souls being common knowledge among monsters, however. That _is_ explained by when Asriel went to the surface. If there was more lore coming from humans, then I could see a reason as to why monsters would lie story wise, however there isn't. 5, Who is the strongest character: Undyne (naturally) or Asriel Dreemur (while in God of Hyperdeath form). If you're including implied canon, then it would be CHUCK NORRIS (in actuality it would probably be whatever human does the most bodybuilding or steroids (naturally), due to humans being stronger than monsters). I'd say that in terms of ranking; Asriel is 1 Undyne is 2 (or 3 if adult humans are included) either Asgore or Mettaton are 3 (Asgore due to being the king of all monsters and being powerful enough to shatter your mercy button, Mettaton due to being a robot) Wait I thought that the beginning cutscene was of frisk falling down??? Why the hell was somebody wearing a cowboy outfit if they fell down after 201x?! 6, The Core's SECRET: what 7, Who hired muffet?: Well you said it in the video, but yea it was probably mettaton 8, Toriel's dark past: Yea this ones stupid 9, Is Asriel still alive?: Most likely. If so then probably as flowey, -although there may be a chance that he either lives and stays as asriel or just straight up dies. We don't really get an answer apart from what Asriel thinks will happen to himself. There's a couple ways to justify asriel still being a goat;- -He became a flower after he was reincarnated(?) as one. I don't think there's anything to suggest that he would turn back into a flower after losing the other souls, although it is likely that he will lose all emotion again. The ending is left pretty ambiguous, so that could be a possibility.- -He could also have a much more extreme reaction to no longer having a soul than he thought as well, and just straight up die.- NEVER MIND I FORGOT ABOUT THE POST POST CREDITS SCENE AFTER TRUE PACIFIST LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 10, 10 Unbelievable Undertale theories: - Has UNDERLAB never seen a simpson? - No clue if the other fallen humans came back to life or not, or if they did then how. - Alphys isn't insane, she's kinda just awkward and also maybe a bit stupid - Undyne's eyepatch is likely covering up a missing eye. UNDERLAB brought up her genocide fight, and during that it seems that she's no longer wearing her eyepatch. It's likely that there's either just a hole or something underneath. - "Is UnDeRtAlE jUsT a DrEaM?!?1" Yo theories just a dream lmao 11, Is Frisk secretly a monster?: No, unless if you were to imply that there are monsters on the surface already... Either that, or that Frisk actually dies when they fall into the underground. Actually, I think the most reasonable explanation for this would be that frisk is actually chara's corpse... EXCEPT THAT THERE'S NOTHING TO SUGGEST THAT'S THE CASE stupid theory 12, The real reason to why Undertale is black and white: Style. Nothing else lol 13, Sans's secret power (he is gojo): sans is not gojo. 14, Are the monsters actually monsters: Yea???? 15, What's inside the waterfall castle: Asgore
@@timrosswood4259 They're also monsters tho, which are entirely made of dust and magic (we see papyrus turn to dust without any blood so)... On the topic of sans bleeding on the genocide route, I think when sans bleeds it's ketchup? I mean we see him drink it during pacifist/neutral playthroughs so...
A Ruins froggit does ask that you spare monsters when their names appear to be yellow. …I guess the health bar might as well be canon, as jank as that is.
I remember thinking the one about genocide being justified was stupid af because the whole point of genocide is literally waiting for monsters to show up and systematically slaughtering them. At best if you wanted to argue the human fighting being justified. At best you'd have a neutral run where the human kills everyone they encounter. Even then papyrus never actually kills you so it's still.... Uh debatable at best if killing him is justified. You could argue the human wouldn't know that but still.
Underlab really got the "undertale fans doesn't know read" to another level Also it gonna something teally funny was underlab trying to justify the genocide in their theories for some reason Pd: this is a little off topic but there are a Spanish channel called generation freaky with that i consider one of the BEST analysis of undertale They are a little outdated and have some errors of 2015 -2018 fandom but oh boy she deserve more recognition sometimes have a lot of sense Undertale being inspired in ireland Flowey being a gorse flower Chara meaning friend or partner The underground being based in ireland legends etc Even she managed to make a timeline with at least 100 years between the fallen of every human If the language barrier isn't a problem you should check it
i mean, not really. theres so much misinformation about undertale and about 90% of it can be remedied by just...reading the narration. because 90% of it is explained, clearly implied, or outright _stated_ in-game. you can make the "bad info" argument about _deltarune,_ because its an unfinished game, but undertale was a full package. there was never a lack of information. just a lack of media literacy.
15:46 The war happened during medieval or ancient times, maybe even before that. Asriel was born when tape records aready existed. It can't be about Asriel because he was born in modern times. The war happened in like, 0xx to 10xx at MOST? Chara and Asriel thing happens during 201x, so yes, the writtings were ancient and never were about Asriel.
I'm not normally a Grammar Nazi, but there is one mistake I should point out, as it was consistent throughout the entire video: it's spelled "choice". I have more to say, but I accidentally hit the Cancel button and lost everything, so I'm going to do it this way: 1. If you look closely, Undyne the Undying is not wearing her eye patch. It appears that her eye really is missing after all. 2. Frisk didn't have to go through the barrier in the Neutral Route; they ended going around it thanks to Flowey wisking them into the void where the Omega Flowey battle takes place. 3. Tsundereplane is likely a ghost that's become corporeal in an airplane body.
I feel like the most powerful monsters would be 1. Annoying Dog (canonically created the game) 2. Asriel (has all the souls) 3. Gaster (has insane stats in the code)
That would imply that Mad Dummy literally just made up a reason to attack Frisk, which... Yeah, seeing that she doesn't even remember the Ruins Dummy's name, that's accurate to her. nevermind.
4:48 I'm just gonna go out and say. Mad Dummy shows a lot of bravery in Genocide, being the first to *directly* attempt to confront Frisk and stop the genocide route. They have the abilities needed to take Frisk down, and they know that, so even after Frisk walks by, not even attempting to go after them, *they* initiate the fight. They intercept Frisk's path, and with nothing but their rage and the desire to avenge their cousin and the Ruins monsters, are prepared to create a battle that won't end until Frisk dies. Even if it means fighting them... Forever. Forever! FOREVER!!!! The Ruins Dummy, meanwhile, will patiently sit there in the Ruins, and has seemingly been there for a long time, since Toriel is surprised when they get bored and fly off. The literal only trait shown is patience. Plus, they're actually in the location with Patience's items. The theory could've been somewhat decent if they remembered the Ruins Dummy. Not great, but it wouldn't require stretching *as* much as it does, and wouldn't require Gaster because Gaster. 13:00 And that's where Underfell came from. 21:40 There's actually nothing in the game implying Chara's SOUL shattered, plus confirmation that Chara's SOUL would contain the entirety of Chara's being, and therefore has to exist for Chara to exist, but like. The lack of a monster SOUL in that heart in True Lab already debunks it being Chara's SOUL. The fact it's not glowing proves it's not a human SOUL. The fact Alphys hasn't used it to break the barrier proves it's not a human SOUL. The fact this theory needs to Gaster because Gaster is probably proof that it's not a human SOUL. 32:20 Four words. Flowey after the credits. 44:50 Flowey, with six human SOULs, has more than enough power to get himself And Frisk through the barrier. The requirements aren't "One human and one monster SOUL," it's "SOUL power equal to or greater than one human and one monster SOUL." Six human SOULs is stronger than one human one monsters, nearly six times as strong, so Flowey has more than enough to pull Frisk through. 46:14 Other concept art from this time contradicts information we're given in Snowdin, such as there being a towel under Sans's chair to catch the ketchup or soda he drinks, later explained by it automatically being absorbed into his body. Meanwhile, the spell system is set magic spells, not expressing with magic. Just like the seven *humans* who cast the barrier could cast spells, but couldn't express themselves with magic. 47:22 Just reading the title, Toby has openly stated more than once that he wanted Undertale to look bad. Also Toriel's eyes are red. Also dialogue implies it's based on SOUL color, as Papyrus, Undyne, and Muffet mention Frisk's color changing when the color of their SOUL changes. 51:50 Ngl, I'm gonna agree with Underlab here. Sans definitely does have this power. The Determination explanation is blatantly wrong, but the idea itself is correct. Sans: "oh yeah, I wanted to ask you something." *Freezes time* When time is unfrozen, Sans: "by the way... i was going to say something, but i forgot." This dialogue right here. He asked what he wanted to say, but time was frozen when he did, so to everyone else, he said that, then left. Also, Papyrus directly mentions his influence over time and space. Papyrus: "IS SANS PRANKING YOU ACROSS TIME AND SPACE? I HATE IT WHEN HE DOES THAT!" So... yeah. He pranks people across time and space, meaning he's able to manipulate it. That's simply confirmation. However, 52:20, the reason they don't die is because he Didn't just take their SOULs. Backtrack to Snowdin after being Asriel, and talk to QC in the shop. She talks about what happened, and how not just her SOUL, but her *body* was absorbed by Asriel. So, Asriel absorbed the monsters entirely, then released them later, with no harm done. It's also stated by Alphys in her entries that extracting a SOUL from a living monster *instantly* kills that monster, so he had to do it without removing the SOULs from their bodies. 58:04 Noteworthy detail. Monsters have the standard fight screen, and anyone in that screen is internally considered a monster. Flowey, who is not a monster, is never considered a monster internally, and is always kept separate from battles with monsters. The code pretty clearly distinguishes non-monsters from monsters, and Tsunderplane is considered a monster. Also, ghost monsters exist, Tsunderplane could just be a ghost-possessed plane. In simpler terms: If you fight them in the normal battle system, they're a monster, and the code reflects this. If you don't, they're Flowey, and have entirely unique logic distinct from monsters. 59:19 me when Monster Kid directly calls it Asgore's castle in unskippable dialogue, meaning anyone who saw that castle and can read knows it's stated to be Asgore's
Outside of fanfiction or the end game dialogue dump from Flowey, you can't justify the Genocide Route. It's like trying to justify stabbing a man with a kitchen knife.
I find myself mostly agreeing with everything you have stated here, but I think you are selling theory number 4 a bit too short. But I am not talking about the conclusion (Monsters being secretly evil) because I also think that's dumb, but rather some of the evidence presented there. Let me explain. I think the tablets in Waterfall must predate Asriel by a long time, and depict very ancient history even compared to him. Not only do they never mention him, and from beginning to end only talk about the ancient war with humanity which is an event that definitely predates him, but assuming that what is being described at the start is Asriel creates a gaping hole in the narrative, which is to say: how did Chara and Asriel know their plan would even work? Chara is a child from the Surface who would have zero knowledge of how Monsters work, let alone knowledge that they can absorb a Human Soul, especially if Monsters themselves didn't know about it already. These lore plaques provide a simple way for either of them to have learned about this fact, explaining how Chara could ever come to the conclusion that lead them to their plan of sacrificing themselves. This also explains why Humans, though stronger than Monsters, would suddenly start a war with them. The fact Monsters can take their Souls couldn't have just been a random assumption that they woke up knowing about one day, there must have been a reason that would push them to action. Something like that would definitely alert them and disrupt the peace that had endured for as long as anyone can remember. The real problem with Underlab's theory ISN'T the evidence, but instead, the conclusion. This could have easily been titled "Why did the Humans start the war?" and go and explain all of this, and it would have been a fine, even compelling theory! But nope, Underlabs had to try and shoehorn in how monsters are actually evil, how they were secretly very powerful and scary, and how they were the ones who started the war, when as you said "one bad apple does not make one bad tree". The idea that the taking of a Soul is what caused the conflict makes it more nuanced, allowing the Humans to appear less like mindless aggressors... but it really doesn't have to come at the cost of Monsters, making it lose nuance AGAIN. Heck, even assuming a Monster absorbed a Human Soul in the distant past, we can't even know if they weren't themselves misunderstood somehow, or acting up from grief or anger... grey situations are Undertale's cup of tea after all. But nope, all Monsters bad. That conclusion ultimately spoiled a very sensible theory, which is quite a shame.
i honestly, i appreciate the conclusion because it's getting to what the heart of theorising is about! one of my favourite undertale/deltarune theorists, halfbreadchaos, usually makes seemingly outlandish speculations -- which is what makes theorising so fun and interesting. i'm honestly glad underlab was there while i grew up, because having them and other theorists just helped me learn so much about undertale. that doesn't mean i don't HATE the "is the genocide route justified" theory LMAOOOO
HELL YEAH HALFBREADCHAOS METTIONED!!!! I like to watch the silly deltarune theories by Bread when I'm drawing or studying at school and while listening to it :D
22:35 You already know human souls have the power to survive after death, so why would it be different when it's fused with a monster soul? If anything, the determination would just preserve both souls.
Red is PROBABLY determination, even if never explicitly implied. Your soul color is determined by your main trait. The other humans had determination, just not so much that it was their main soul trait. That's what makes Chara and Frisk so powerful. They had an abundance of it. Chara was already suicidal though, so they never bothered to come back (of their own accord) when the humans killed them and Asriel.
Honestly, considering that a Red Soul has only been seen when being controlled by a player, and the fact that the only hint we get about the nature of the red soul in Undertale being the Ball Game stating that it’s some sort of unification of all the traits, I honestly think Red could mean anything from love, to L.O.V.E, to Control, to Freedom. But determination is probably just something else.
@@jacksonvoet8312based guy made a frisk analysis video which has the concept of the red soul representing ‘individuality,’ which is cool. but determination is definitely not a soul trait, it’s something all humans produce in Undertale
Haven't watched the "genocide route is justified" one yet, but i bet he fumbles so hard that he accidentally makes an argument that justifies a real genocide, comment if I'm right
Wait, was the Ruins Dummy actually confirmed to be a ghost living in a dummy? I just always read it as Mad Dummy having gone completely insane/delusional and was looking for an excuse to attack Frisk.
4:40 nonono you don't understand- This is actually genius!! There arent 6 dead children, there are 7!! And what does mad dummy say in his fight? "You scared them right out of their body!" (Or something like that) So- so the ruins dummy is Chara! And thats the moment chara gets stuck to frisk! I mean obviously, the dummy just so happens to be 2 or 3 rooms past their burried body if you consider Chara is burried where frisk falls so- so its GENIOUS I TELL YOU!!! /j /s (There's 15 ways to debunk that dont bother its a joke)
I think the person who hired muffet is supposed to be a meta joke about how people payed for muffet to be a boss in the game and it also explains the "Changing shapes" i dont think its Gaster or Mettaton and i am more inclined to this theory as its really funny
You should watch JaruJaruJ They has like, the weirdest theories, like saying that Kris unalived Asriel and poured their dust into Kris horns and hide it somewhere. And these horns entered contact with a great fountain which generated Ralsei. And that's only one of their theories.
Honestly the first theory does get me curious about something... could the souls be tied to a few of the characters we meet? Not literally, but sort of like examples and embodiments of those traits. For justice and kindness, basically the video, with Papyrus being kindness since hes very positive and nice plus all the cooking motifs in the Flowey section, with Sans being justice because funny justice hall. For perserverance I think the obvious answer would be Undyne, with her managing to survive a strike and become a hyper powerful monster in the No Mercy route, refusing to give up until her body simply can't anymore. That leaves Bravery, Patience, and Integrity, with the only main characters remaining being Alphys, Mettaton, Asgore, and Toriel. I could maybe see Toriel being integrity with her leaving Asgore over the whole child murder thing, or maybe Asgore with him trying to keep it together as the leader of monsterkind, trying to save them and break the barrier no matter the cost. Admittedly not sure where to go from this and it kinda falls apart pretty quickly.
Underlab: All monsters are secretly evil and want to kill us Also Underlab: Toriel has no reason to keep us in the Ruins as the monsters there don't want to kill us
24:15 I know this is a joke but DANG coming from someone who thought Flowey was obviously the 2nd best option, you provide a lot of legit convincing evidence for Gaster.
Me frantically searching the timestamps to see if my crack ahh undertale theory was featured when i made a post at 3 AM about how sans is actually dead:
i feel like most UT/DR theories tend to fall into that hole of fanfic/hypothesis disguised as theories, a great example being the infamously meme worthy "pile of asriel's dust" a good portion of theories seem to take the matpat view on theories, picking stuff that strengthens their points even if its outside of the game while completely ignoring obvious stuff, which tends to make something thats supposed to be simple into a mess that makes no sense so imo people going 'underlab bad' seems to me more so hypocritical when 90% of undertale and deltarune theories tend to be hypotheticals with almost no good proof rather than ramblings , not defending the guy, just something i noticed
I do kinda disagree on the sans timestopping thing because of a few reasons, one is that literately nobody else moves at all while the screen is dark, or even having animation changes, like grillby's flame just goes completely still, and if it was for dramatic effect, why not just like, blot out everything else, and second, there is literately no evidence of sans being able to teleport, while there is actual evidence of freezing time, and also, having more determination tends to give more control over time, which is why when sans does his shortcuts, everything just happens instantly, while at other points like in genocide or against flowey in pacifist, it has little to no effect, because you do just simply have more determination by those points, and while it doesn't really make complete sense why sans specifically has it, there's some things about sans and pap that make absolutely no damn sense either, like how papyrus just can casually defy gravity
You literally got wrong. Having more Determination means controlling the "timeline", not time. Also if Sans was able to stop time fully, he would have used this to go surface and get some souls and then come back to surface. Also Sans never uses that time stop ability during fight. Just becasue it once happend for dramatic effect, people literally cant accept that it isnt his ability.
Also if Sans had "more determination", he would melt at first place since monster bodies cant maintain DT and sans like literally has 1 DEF. No, flowey isnt a monster, so he doesnt melt as monsters cant also absorb other monster souls but flowey can since he isnt a monster anymore.
There is evidence he can teleport. But besides that, I do agree with you and think Sans can time stop personally and there is evidence he can. Beyond even the Grillby’s scene. Like in Sans! fight and I’m pretty sure he dies actually use it against Flowey too at one point to help you. Besides me thinking Sans can teleport (as well as time stop), and there is evidence he can (like when he keeps showing up on the other side of u as u go back and forth with no effects of the clicking that can happen with time stops imo. And him teleporting ur soul to keep you in place during his fight. And etc.). I do agree with a decent amount of ur comment still.
@@AntError_exist He does most likely use it in his fight actually. Like when he literally changes his attack from one thing to something else w/o any transition? Also, how would Sans being able to time stop allow him to be able to get through a magical barrier? That makes no sense. And even if he could, why would he do so? Sans does not care about getting SOULs are going to the Surface anymore. So why would he, even if he could? "Having more Determination means controlling the "timeline", not time." U are literally controlling time. U can go back in time, and even refuse death. DT can control time and fate. Saying it controls the "timelines" not "time". Seems very semantic-y tbh. "Just becasue it once happend for dramatic effect, people literally cant accept that it isnt his ability." Because the way it is used in Grillby's seems more like just dramatic effect. And because he seems to use in another times in the game. People think he can do it, because there is some evidence that he can.
Yeah, I actually really like the interpretation that Sans is pausing time instead of teleporting, though I don't agree it's tied to Determination. Determination, as far as we're aware, is only capable of 'de-termination' abilities, or things that prevent you from dying. Saving/Loading and Refusing. Pausing time doesn't directly tie to preventing you from dying, so it doesn't make sense that Determination is responsible for that. (Plus, it would imply that Sans has a lot of Determination, which is not well evidenced). You can interpret Sans pausing time as potentially being an exploit of the pause system of the game, as we don't know what systems Sans does and doesn't have access to to manipulate. Or it could just be an ability that he has access to. Having Time Stop would allow Sans to appear to teleport around while also not having to open up the question of: why can't Sans teleport through the Barrier? It also better explains his attacks where the screen entirely changes. It could just be that he teleports you to somewhere that has the bones already set up, but it could also be that he paused time and moved the bones around before unpausing time. Also, Frisk sometimes and sometimes not being included in the time stop isn't an issue, Sans seemingly just has the ability to decide to include them or not (which is the same for teleports, he has the ability to decide to bring Frisk or not.) Like.. His teleportation feats can all easily be time pause feats instead and we're just not usually included in the time stop. Sans doesn't do enough with either feat to 100% confirm which it is To prove it's teleportation, he would have to teleport somewhere that he physically is incapable of getting to without teleportation. To prove it's time stop, he would have to make more drastic changes to the world around him that can't be replicated with a simple teleport or allow us to hang out in frozen time with him. He never gets close to doing the teleportation feat, everywhere he teleports to he could pause time and just walk there. He does, however, have evidence of the other two feats. Geno battle suddenly changing and Grillby's date. The geno fight could just be Sans teleporting you to somewhere where the bones are already set up, so not ideal evidence. But with Grillby's we specifically see time freeze and the only way to say that time didn't freeze is just by saying it was a stylistic decision. Which is definitely possible but seems odd to do. Either way, there's more evidence of time freeze than teleportation technically.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
If ya feel like I got smt wrong you can tell me in the comments btw
Underlabs theory’s aged like actual spoiled milk that somehow acts like it’s slime I don’t hate underlab with a passion but most videos were made in crackpots hoping it worked cause of how absurd they are
Which is funny to me •U•
nothing.
These theories were made in the early stages of UT early enough people didn't even know half of how the game actually worked, so I wouldn't blame anyone for having a stupid theory (besides the sans is Ness that thing is completely unforgivable)
@@xandersimpson2653the enteral grudge huh?
39:06 the theory is dogshit but it just gave me the idea that undyne wears an eyepatch not because of something happening to it, but because of the chuunibyou trope in anime where they wear an eyepatch to seal their powers, with undyne actually thinking that's a way humans are so strong
So... Undyne's eyepatch was actually designed by Alphys to feed in her Magic so she can block her immense power!? Maybe she even has mental blocks that don't allow her to unlock her full potencial in dear she would never enjoy battle again!
Ah, Kenpachi
@@jaredmahonriopazoortega2247 oh so that's what happens in the genocide
My personal head canon is that she accidentally hit herself in the eye with a spear cause in genocide you can see a spear fly towards it
Love this interpretation that she's wearing an eyepatch because she thinks it might make her stronger because of the anime she's seen. Could also be her just thinking it looks cool
Me when I’m in a poorly aged Undertale theorist competition and my opponent is Underlab:
me when i'm in an unfunny dead npc meme competition and my opponent is oranjanglad8648:
me when I’m in an unloved child competition and my opponent is @gamingtime468
@@meh-o1n me when im in a a agreeing competition and my opponent is Bobplushie
@@gamingtime468me when I throw rocks at you:🪨🪨🪨🪨🪨🪨🪨🪨
When i'm in a comment chain breaking competition and my opponent is@@AllThatIsMortal
10:43 OMG PAPYRUS DOES NOT FUCKING HATE PUNS, HE MAKES 11 BONE PUNS IF YOU GO THROUGH EVERY DIALOG OPTION WHILE SANS MAKES 9, SO IT IS PROBABLY THAT HE HATES SANS USING THEM IN THE CONTEXT HE DOES
Yes!! He makes a skele-ton of puns!
He just prefers more subtle puns that are appropriate to the moment.
eh, it's wrong timing.
@@laziestbones A bit before, so people can see the lead up and actually see the clip
@@alexgreer6336 talking bout' the puns timing. shoulda said that.
Theory n.2 also completely ingores that in genocide route you have to GRIND to kill as many monsters as possible, until you get the "But nobody came" message. That's why you propably can't get the genocide route by accident.
And also, by Waterfall it's shown that the human is starting the encounters (with the ! icon turning into =), showing that you're not suprised to see a monster, you're glad to see another target). So you're not the one fighting in self-defense, they are.
Just as much as magic is the explanation for anything unexplained in medieval Europe.
Gaster is the explanation for anything the Undertale community doesn't know about
Lil bro getting blamed for EVERYTHING 😭🙏
The old Go- Gaster of the gaps theory
@@emotyy Undertale/Deltarune's most reliable scapegoat
@@Vincent_Rabbit the Scape-G.O.A.T if you will
What he lacks in concrete lore, he makes up for in his lack of concrete lore
-Andrew Cunningham
Okay. Underlab theorizing what the castle in Waterfall was for Papyrus to interject with "That's the king's castle." followed immediately with awkward silence was WAY funnier than it had any right to be.
can we talk about how fucked that “Chara’s soul is in the true lab generator” thing is like
“yes hello royal scientist here is my dead child’s soul, please use it to power your experiments, teehee”
like yeah I’m sure asgore would be very open to that idea
If it is true (which it probably isn't), it was probably more encouraged by Gaster as he'd have to reason with Asgore that it was possibly the only effective fuel source they had for the generator. Def wouldn't have been Asgore's idea, since he's not a technical person at all
I'm pretty sure Chara's soul shattered with Asriel's when he died too lmao, I don't even think that Gaster could have gotten his hands on it lmao
@@CharaDreemurr_TheyThem Speaking of souls shattering after death, it doesn’t make sense how we leave in neutral runs without Asgore’s being obtainable.
@@wildfire9280 My theories are:
Flowey somehow gave us the power to go through (for some reason, he probs didnt though because he doesnt give af about anyone)
The human souls gave us the power (somehow, its in character but a human cant absorb human souls)
Our soul is stronger than a normal human's, which means we're able to go through (plot armor core, probably the most likely explanation because Frisk has insane plot armor, like they just so happen to have more DT than a flower with multiple human's DT combined)
Or Flowey, by bringing us into his world thing, accidentally placed us into it, meaning we could fully get out but couldn't go back (after we spare/kill Flowey we can't go back, but we can go forward, and we are in a room ahead of the barrier room. This is unlikely but it definitely has the slightest bit more of evidence compared to the others)
@@CharaDreemurr_TheyThemI think the last theory is the most likely. Flowey warps reality when he absorbs the SOULs and it’s possible that when they return, they’re misplaced on the other side of the barrier.
When you start the game up and load Flowey’s file, you walk upwards for a few seconds to reach the save point (and you don’t really move from that spot for the rest of the fight) so maybe that’s the point where you (unknowingly) walk past the barrier that currently doesn’t exist.
sans and papyrus are actually a married couple and they only call each other brothers so the taliban doesn't execute them trust me guys gaster told me
Who's the Taliban then?
As a random child who ate one too many buttercups and is now a ghost thing, can confirm
@@SafiyyaSaffiya211 Gaster
love this actually lmao
Where did you get that theory? On a certain website for a certain internet rule?
I hate people thinking that sans is strong. He isn't. Quite the opposite. He's clever, but he's weak. He manipulates game mechanics to try, but he KNOWS he can't beat you. He's stalling for time. And that's why his battle is so genius. He's not a boss. Just some smart rando who can't afford not to care anymore.
Papyrus just didn’t live long enough to go down the same path as sans. Seeing the human is going to never change.
Wait that’s literally just disbelief
Papyrus IS strong. Unlike sans, papyrus is playing the same game you are.
@@wowie-zowie Papyrus just didn’t fight the human, undyne says he’s pretty strong too. The got killed in Snowdin, if he survived long enough he could have saw and did something.
That is SO FALSE
Buddy sans has been proven to have 4d ap
“Undertale’s Genocide Route is JUSTIFIED!”
Clover: Write that down! Write that down!
Sorry to be that guy but *write
@@Titan_Slayer oh yeah shit, fixed it.
I wouldn’t call it justified, more
”justicefied”
Not funny? Okay, I’ll leave
Integrity:
@@justrandomstuff9380 justified comes from justice, you fumbled your intelligence check, AND your charisma check so hard
I remember Underlab and how much of an impact it had on me. Some of its videos are just ingrained in my brain now. Honestly, though, sometimes the theories were very far-fetched, like you said now that I'm looking back at them, but hey, wasn't there a point of time where some of us thought sans was Ness 💀
he is ness tho!!!!
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....
No way
What if… and hear me out… Sans was Steven from Steven Universe. (Sans stands for Steven After Not Surviving)
@@aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa..... no
@@felixmcnuggets yes
matpat said so like 10 years ago so it must be true
1:00:02
i love how this 8-minute long theory was completely shot down through a single undertale clip
I saw "Worst UNDERTALE Theorist" and just assumed this was about me, lmao. xD
No no that would never be the case. If the title was "Worst DELTARUNE Theorist" on the other hand...
You believe in what you're making videos about. These videos on the other hand are just clickbait videos based on 2 paragraph reddit posts stretched out for 10 minutes living off of Undertale hype
noooo you’re one of my faves💗
Piles of Asriel's dust ❤
noooooo
Underlab seems like the kind of teacher who would dock points on a student's "write a fictional story" assignment for misspelling a character's name.
You know things are rough when the fictional characters in the intro are saying the theory about them is dumb 💀💀💀
I remember hearing a theory that Muffet’s employer is actually just a very poorly executed joke
Someone paid for her to fight you
She was a kickstarter reward, so someone paid for her to be in the game
And yknow what that’s what i’m choosing to believe tbh
What about changing shape tho?
@@genericname2747maybe something to do with changing profile pictures?
@@idonthaveanygoodusernameid7713 I guess that works? Seems like a very random thing to include tho
@@genericname2747 yeah idrk myself I was just kinda reaching cus I liked the idea 🤷♀️
Do you think there would be chatgpt allegations if these theories released nowadays?
Probably
There would probably be allegations of them being a content farm too
Yes
my theory is that uhmm gaster is giygas.. please don’t ask for my reasoning it’s super secret
My theory is that Poo from earthbound is frisk after they geeonkilled sanes
@@Jintysarecool i endorse this theory
Still makes more sense than Underlab theories
my theory is that Garser is papyrus deltarune
@@mayjirita my theory is that Sese Len’en is Papyrus Deltatale
I never got how so many people in the early days of the fandom thought Chara and the six other fallen humans had fallen into the Underground within a relatively close time span. It’s outright stated several times that several monsters don’t even know what humans look like. Bratty and Catty are the most prominent example of this, not to mention all the random NPCs that don’t even bat an eye at Frisk being a Human, or (I think) some NPC in Hotland thinking Frisk was the result of special effects on Mettaton’s show and not recognizing them at all in the flesh.
As quoted by Shayy:
"I can't read, I'm an undertale fan"
right, and undertale yellow seems to have made this a lot worse recently
@@pixelator5312 my god, yes. i love undertale yellow but this has driven me crazy.
@@pixelator5312
Yeah… putting Flowey there is just *so* not canon, it almost physically hurts.
@@Kayta-LindaI mean, we don't know how old Flowey is
Is based guy secretly gay?
Let’s take a look at the evidence!
First, in his “who is the best mommy in the multiverse”, calming waterfall music plays implying he isn’t interested in getting a mommy for himself, not only that but he says that his favorite mommy is the male sans undertale!
My second piece of evidence is him spending 30 minutes talking about how much he loves TS! crossbones, now he could just mean this platonically but I believe he is pursueing a romantic relationship with sans undertale because he loves men!
Guys l we found a theories
Underlab theories if they were actually correct and good:
this theory is better than the plot of 99% of science fiction movies
Best theory ever XD
but that's just a theory
anyone who makes the theory "why the genocide route is justified" and "are monsters secretly evil" i question them irl
I feel like this is a consequence of trying to read undertale in a way that removes the Player as an entity in the story itself and just read it as Frisk being in full control. All the player's abilities to interact with the game are textual to the story itself. YOU as a character in the narrative are never in any danger. Killing the monsters is a matter of mild inconvience, not life or death.
the monster is evil thing is stupid but the genocide route is very justified i mean these monsters killed and captured children its only fair they suffer for such a evil crime
@@thatoneyoutubechannel9139 that's the stupidest reasoning i've read, how is slaughtering an entire race (children, mothers, fathers, papyrus) because of a king's actions justified ? you don't get to have the moral high ground when you're that deranged, this is not self defense.
not to mention that it's the humans who trapped them undeground and left them to die to begin with, so even in that case they're the dipshits in the story.
@@thatoneyoutubechannel9139 It's dumb to try and boil the situation down to a pure black and white. To get OUT of the underground in the first place either Toriel or Asgore would have to let themselves be killed, so even if the monsters weren't gathering human souls it's not as if they could just let them leave easily. It's fucked up to kill kids but also it's far more fucked up to imprison an entire race until possibly the end of time. Like if this were real life and this was a real thing that happened historians would go "I mean killing kids is fucked up but it's not as if anyone on earth would have the moral scruples to not do that in this situation". Also fleeing from battles is a free action in undertale, you can just do that. Frisk is also textually immortal, there is not a 'canon' ending in the game that has them die for real, and that's not even touching upon the fact Frisk is in turn being controlled by an immortal god being that cannot in any way be harmed by the monsters.
@@thatoneyoutubechannel9139
Don't tell me you're applying Undertale Yellow's vengeance run to Undertale's genocide run.
The name of each should clue you in as to their motive and justifiability.
The "Genociding the monsters is justifiable!" one is so baffling honestly
Last I checked, by definition, genocide isn't justifiable at all.
Underlab isn’t a bad theorist, they’re a crack theorist. There’s a difference.
You can be a crack theorist while still making bad theories
The Woody Theory surprisingly had some merit to it despite being utterly insane and something I don’t think will happen for Deltarune, with Toby’s use of random tumblr stuff he has no qualms referencing in DR (man.ogg for example), the general setting of Chapter 3, and the way he worded the cancellation of a certain segment
Saying that the undead looking monsters were the fallen humans based on circumstantial evidence and heavy characterization bias is not only an insane idea, but one that is backed poorly by bad evidence
4:41 To be fair, I don't think a lot of people knew or remembered the Ruins Dummy was a ghost back then.
not sure if Sans can really be called "powerful", his whole thing is that he's the weakest monster and that the fight is made difficult by him "cheating" (dodging, ignoring s, poison, putting attacks in the menu)
So less Powerful and more... Crafty. Very Crafty.
So he's powerful?
He is powerful in its own right. Being able to cheat and exploit like he does is powerful and smart in its own right.
Like the menu attacks, extending his turn indefinitely, un dodge me attacks (only Flowey and Sans are shown to do these. With betrayal kills or attacks that you can’t dodge but can’t seem to kill you by themselves. Though they can bring u down to really low HP), dodging, etc.
Teleporting, time stop imo, bones, GB’s, poison/KR, blue soul mode magic, lowering of IV’s, etc. are all quite powerful too. And for the most part, aren’t really cheating by themselves; though he can use them to cheat.
So yeah, Dans is powerful in his own right.
Also, the flavor text never said “the weakest monster (which is neither truce by in game or coded stats or from well, what he shows he can do to us in his fight), it says “the easiest enemy”. Which is just obviously not true. I know level of difficulty is subjective. But I’m sure most can agree that this isn’t true.
That flavor text seemed more supposed to be ironic than anything and throw u off-guard. And biased in a way, because the narrator isn’t always right on everything. Imo.
Utsuho!
@@Dragon_Aoi i misremembered the flavor text, but he very much lacks in physical qualities considering he only has 1 HP, 1 defense and 1 attack (seen by how his attacks only deal 1 damage per tick along KR) along with poor stamina (he's known to be lazy and get tired easily, you can see how he decides to go to sleep after a few turns of dodging attacks)
the way i see it is that Sans knows how to use the tools he has to make himself a formidable monster in spite of his actually low physical qualities, raw strength isn't everything that matters when it comes to being a threatening combatant
4:41 Not only ignoring the Ruins Dummy, but also the three dummies that talk to us in New Home and the fact that Napstablook mentions they have a family.
calling deltarune undertale 2 is the worst crime of all
Toby himself confirmed that DR is an AU, yet people like him still not believing that is WILD
Call Terraria 2d Minecraft is worse
Undertale: Halloween Hack?
Then it's undertale 3?
i mean, like everyone called it that at the time
Theory: Who painted the ruin's walls? The walls in the ruins are purple, this CLEARLY means the purple human soul painted the walls. I rest my case.
Nah bro, it was clearly Tumblr thinks that simped for Purple Pixelated corpses twice that painted it, because it would remind them of the two Aftons
What's funny about the first theory is that they could have associated the ghosts with different traits that fit them more like mad dummy attacks you recklessly to the point of accidentally hitting herself and she's the dummy Undyne uses to practice so why not say they are bravery? The ruins dummy never moves why not say they are patience? Why not switch Mettaton and Napstablook? Like it's still a big strech and not true but I think there are better ways to do it lol.
pretty sure the huge difference between sans and papyrus' proportions and size is to reflect their opposite personalities through design choices
4:11 this means clover undertale yellow is sans
clover undertale yellow is Ness comfirmed
Clover in retirement state
uty sucks ngl
@@YourUltimateStarGazerRagebait used to be believable.
Fr
I was obsessed with their videos when I was 12, and then promptly forgot about them until now.
Underlab is what happens when you give griffpatch a suitcase full of coke along with a copy of underlust
You mean the scratch dev?
@@e_nerd1110 for some reason *they literally sound exactly the same*
Jeez, when you look back at these theories, I don’t think underlab actually ever played undertale
Unfortunately I feel that kinda just describes a large chunk of the UT fandom in general, especially with how little of the ACTUAL lore/information given by the game is actually used.
I should note, Undertale is NOT subtle about its setting barring anything involving Gaster, and a lot of the "fanon" utilised by the fandom is pretty easily disproven by the game's own dialogue (like how people just... *ignore* how LOVE and EXP work despite both sans AND a book in the Librarby explaining how it works, and the effect it has on monsters).
Alphys injecting DT into Undyne is a theory that exists.
Alphys would never do that.
Excuse me?
@@tntrose7285 Alphys wouldn’t do that. Determination experiments went horribly wrong the first time, and it seems like they met just afterwards.
Yea alphys was litelray depressed becuse of the experiments with determination but now she would inject the person she cares about with the same think that causes the catastrophe that is the experiment
I remember watching the "Geno is justified" video years ago before I played undertale and thought that it was a stretch, but now with actual knowledge of the game, it's funny how badly they justify it and conveniently leave out stuff they can't explain
this might've been our content slop back then lmfao
Who's "our"?
@@dylanzlol7293us
Me
@@dylanzlol7293 early undertale fandom, back when we basically took in any form of content
Bro had the most batshit insane theories ever and yet we were eatin' that shit up like it was a 5 star meal
Fr tho I was 9-10 and eating this shit up
That second theory must’ve come straight from the prologue humans.
I always read Monsters attacking Frisk as one of two things, the first being out of obligation, the second reason is this, monsters mistaking Frisk as a new monster (because it's been so long since the sixth human fell) introducing themselves through magic like they'd do a fellow monster.
about the plaques: it seems like they were actually written before Asriel or at least before Chara.
"* But this cursed place has no entrances or exits.
* There is no way a human could come here.
* We will remain trapped down here forever."
with how Asgore specifically calls out the NEW HOME barrier as "The Barrier" it seems like thats where they were sealed from and then they retreated through the mountain into HOME, and these plaques were written on the way there before they finally fully settled into HOME or any humans fell. later, seemingly after Chara's fall, they explored back out into the other places they intially trekked through, as stated in Monster History Part 4.
The brother one was just underlab trying to justify undertale R34
:0
Hear me out Asgore-
😟
Hear me out tsundereplan-
2:37 the only ones that actually make any sort of sense are sans as justice/patience and papyrus as kindness
I actually like the 'theory' that the human monster war wasn't actually one sided and the one that a monster did kill and absorbed a human soul. Although that's mostly my personal preferences and the fact that there are genuinely bad monsters.
Thats just impossible if a monster did get to kill a human and absorb their soul the war is over the monsters won
Remember Asriel could kill a whole armed village in the 2010s
So a whole adult armed village and took enough blows to die to the point he could go to the flower bed and then go back to mount ebbot all while being constantly attacked and NEVER fighting back
A monster who is actually fighting in the war would use that power to instantly kill 6 more humans and the war is over humans take way too long to kill a monster powered up with a soul with modern weapons let alone in the medieval times the war seemed to have happeend
Also how would the war NOT be onesided ? A single human child with a stick can kill most of the monster population without any issue
@@danielgonzalez-vm5ljI mean im guessing the old humans were much stronger with there magic and shit than the monsters were even with an absorbed human soul and was strong enough to seal the rest of them underground with a strong barrier.
Frisk a child could handle all the monsters in the underground now imagine what 5-10 adult humans with determination can do, the only reason i guess is that the old humans with no more wars to fight just lost the magic or took there magic to death with them, not teaching it to there future generations meaning magic just got lost to time, because it's hard to believe that the village near mt ebott would not use magic againsts a monster and just use pitch forks and other stuff instead of using there soul traits and humans who pass the barrier just awaken there soul trait magic somehow by being exposed to the monsters or smth.
@@danielgonzalez-vm5lj Magic Nukes that was humanitys answer to monsters with human souls
@@dantheman9795 thats a stupid idea
First its the middle ages nukes didnt exist yet and if they did no sane human would say oh we lost one soilder NUKE they need to authorize that and then set them and launch them
Second it would kill countless humans too and leave thousands of souls around for any monster not caught in the blast to use
Third it woudnt even take 5 seconds from the moment a monster gets a soul to the moment they become gods by killing 6 humans in a battlefield filled of them let alone the time a mage casts a " magic nuke " which a monster with 6 or 7 souls could just delete since they can alter reality itself as flowey did by changing THE NAME OF THE GAME or the INTRO
@@dantheman9795 magic nukes..a few centuries ago?
46:10 Always odd when people use scrapped/unused ideas to justify their theories. Like it's actually a canon piece of evidence even though the final version states the opposite clearly.
Funnily enough
The 6 humans are probably kinda alive
As they revolt over flowey and help us in the game
And at the end of the pacifist route the 6 humans goes back to there bodies and leave(probably)
But we see nothing about the undead monsters
Heck we don't even how ghosts exist
I'd say they're some kind of successful determination experiments gaster did on some monsters to make them resist death 5:
that's actually pretty interesting theory you got there
This is what I don't like about a lot of online theorists, Game Theory included. In order to try and craft their clickbait theories, they usually cherry-pick information that suits their argument and conveniently ignore anything that poses a threat to it. And technically these aren't theories, they should've been called hypothesizes. But I suppose calling them theories instead makes them sound stronger
Idk if it's just the fact that I wasn't so aware myself back then, but it felt like old game theory was much better about it, but yeah, I pretty much stopped watching them when I saw the "what's up with the paldean crater in pokemon Scarlet and Violet" short like less than a week after taking the time to read through all the classes in that game, and iirc their theory actively went against what you're literally directly told in the in game history class.
its weird how people will assume papyrus doesnt know about gaster when hes never asked or given the opportunity to show he does or does not know
I wanna give my takes on each theory (obv spoilers):
1, Humans are undead monsters:
The fallen humans? Most likely not. We see their souls still in containment, and it's likely that something would have to happen to the soul itself for a monster to come from it (perhaps decay or fragmentation? There's already nothing to suggest that human souls CAN become monsters (or even monster souls), so there would have to be more evidence for that specifically... There's a possibility that they could be older humans though, perhaps lost souls which found their way to the underground either before or after the war between humankind and monsterkind? I mean, some of their behavior does match up with human traits (and potentially alter traits if you think that's a thing), right? Sans = Patience (displayed both in his fight (both through his special attack and _MAYBE_ in his eye???) and through his multiple jobs of mostly waiting and occasionally doing something (could also be laziness/apathy)), Papyrus = perseverance (displayed through his many interactions with the human in which he tries to either capture or befriend the human (could also be naivety/ignorance)), Mettaton = bravery (displayed when mettaton tries to stop the human during the geno route even with an experimental body which might not work (could also be pride)), Napstablook = Kindness (displayed by their courteousness while interacting with them, and during their encounter where they lower their health to be nice), Mad Dummy = Justice (attacks you for what you did to the Ruins Dummy (could also be brashness/self-righteousness), Ruins dummy... Maybe integrity? That's what's left and it's pretty hard to tell their personality from the little we see of them.
I could see becoming a monster taking a toll on your memories. How? Who knows. It could be that they also just choose not to bring it up or hide it from the player...
I think UNDERLAB's theory leans far too heavily into the equipment found around the underground and the attacks in flowey's fight, rather than in the actual traits represented by each soul color.
2, Why Geno is JUSTIFIED:
Nope. Killing monsters is only justified in a neutral route where the player does not go out of their way to kill monsters. If a monster surrenders then the player is not justified in killing it. The player is not justified in going out of their way to kill monsters, either. I could see (being in the shoes of a child here) not knowing when to stop and accidentally killing monsters when they would otherwise surrender? I could see it being hard to tell when some of them are weak if you don't have a health bar above their head to tell how much is left...
UNDERLAB's justification for papyrus tells me they haven't played genocide before (or at least didn't pay attention). He doesn't attack you, he doesn't imply that he's gonna attack you... It's bull. And yeah, he did gloss over glad dummy and monster kid, both monsters that did not want to fight...
3, Are Sans and Papyrus REEEALLY brothers?:
Most likely. I could see a couple arguments being made against that though, although there's nothing (at least to my knowledge) to support them. Here goes;
- Sans and Papyrus are not 'blood' (not that they have any lol) related, rather they're adopted brothers. (This isn't really arguing that they AREN'T brothers, rather that they aren't blood related brothers).
- Their backstory isn't well known, so we don't really know if they have any prior relations to eachother. (There's literally nothing to support this besides the residents of snowdin town saying that they just showed up one day).
I think you covered why UNDERLAB's wrong well enough in the video, lol
4, Are monsters secretly evil?:
Right now? Prrrobably not. In the past? Who knows? I don't think we get much lore about the war between humans and monsters besides that (according to the monsters) it likely happened due to humans being afraid of monsters being able to absorb souls, humans used magic to seal monsterkind away, and that's the reason why monsters are stuck underground. Besides, morality is a complex matter, especially between societies... It could be that this was the height of many other fears or conflicts which we did not know about, coming from both sides.
I think that UNDERLAB made the argument about how the humans found out about monsters being able to absorb human souls incorrectly. How did the _humans_ find out about this? I mean, they found out somehow, right? Perhaps there was more conflict between these societies than the monsters are letting on... Underlab had no reason to bring up being able to absorb human souls being common knowledge among monsters, however. That _is_ explained by when Asriel went to the surface.
If there was more lore coming from humans, then I could see a reason as to why monsters would lie story wise, however there isn't.
5, Who is the strongest character:
Undyne (naturally) or Asriel Dreemur (while in God of Hyperdeath form). If you're including implied canon, then it would be CHUCK NORRIS
(in actuality it would probably be whatever human does the most bodybuilding or steroids (naturally), due to humans being stronger than monsters).
I'd say that in terms of ranking;
Asriel is 1
Undyne is 2 (or 3 if adult humans are included)
either Asgore or Mettaton are 3 (Asgore due to being the king of all monsters and being powerful enough to shatter your mercy button, Mettaton due to being a robot)
Wait I thought that the beginning cutscene was of frisk falling down??? Why the hell was somebody wearing a cowboy outfit if they fell down after 201x?!
6, The Core's SECRET:
what
7, Who hired muffet?:
Well you said it in the video, but yea it was probably mettaton
8, Toriel's dark past:
Yea this ones stupid
9, Is Asriel still alive?:
Most likely. If so then probably as flowey, -although there may be a chance that he either lives and stays as asriel or just straight up dies. We don't really get an answer apart from what Asriel thinks will happen to himself. There's a couple ways to justify asriel still being a goat;-
-He became a flower after he was reincarnated(?) as one. I don't think there's anything to suggest that he would turn back into a flower after losing the other souls, although it is likely that he will lose all emotion again. The ending is left pretty ambiguous, so that could be a possibility.-
-He could also have a much more extreme reaction to no longer having a soul than he thought as well, and just straight up die.-
NEVER MIND I FORGOT ABOUT THE POST POST CREDITS SCENE AFTER TRUE PACIFIST LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
10, 10 Unbelievable Undertale theories:
- Has UNDERLAB never seen a simpson?
- No clue if the other fallen humans came back to life or not, or if they did then how.
- Alphys isn't insane, she's kinda just awkward and also maybe a bit stupid
- Undyne's eyepatch is likely covering up a missing eye. UNDERLAB brought up her genocide fight, and during that it seems that she's no longer wearing her eyepatch. It's likely that there's either just a hole or something underneath.
- "Is UnDeRtAlE jUsT a DrEaM?!?1" Yo theories just a dream lmao
11, Is Frisk secretly a monster?:
No, unless if you were to imply that there are monsters on the surface already... Either that, or that Frisk actually dies when they fall into the underground. Actually, I think the most reasonable explanation for this would be that frisk is actually chara's corpse... EXCEPT THAT THERE'S NOTHING TO SUGGEST THAT'S THE CASE
stupid theory
12, The real reason to why Undertale is black and white:
Style. Nothing else lol
13, Sans's secret power (he is gojo):
sans is not gojo.
14, Are the monsters actually monsters:
Yea????
15, What's inside the waterfall castle:
Asgore
Bones have blood and we see sans bleeding, but I have no idea how skeletons would procreate
@@timrosswood4259 They're also monsters tho, which are entirely made of dust and magic (we see papyrus turn to dust without any blood so)...
On the topic of sans bleeding on the genocide route, I think when sans bleeds it's ketchup? I mean we see him drink it during pacifist/neutral playthroughs so...
A Ruins froggit does ask that you spare monsters when their names appear to be yellow. …I guess the health bar might as well be canon, as jank as that is.
@@wildfire9280 I could see that, with saving and loading being canon as well...
Even LESS of a reason that genocide is justified lmao
41:00 It’s almost like naming the human has like actual plot purpose and thematical meaning
I remember thinking the one about genocide being justified was stupid af because the whole point of genocide is literally waiting for monsters to show up and systematically slaughtering them.
At best if you wanted to argue the human fighting being justified.
At best you'd have a neutral run where the human kills everyone they encounter.
Even then papyrus never actually kills you so it's still....
Uh debatable at best if killing him is justified.
You could argue the human wouldn't know that but still.
Underlab really got the "undertale fans doesn't know read" to another level
Also it gonna something teally funny was underlab trying to justify the genocide in their theories for some reason
Pd: this is a little off topic but there are a Spanish channel called generation freaky with that i consider one of the BEST analysis of undertale
They are a little outdated and have some errors of 2015 -2018 fandom but oh boy she deserve more recognition sometimes have a lot of sense
Undertale being inspired in ireland
Flowey being a gorse flower
Chara meaning friend or partner
The underground being based in ireland legends etc
Even she managed to make a timeline with at least 100 years between the fallen of every human
If the language barrier isn't a problem you should check it
Also clover is sans
Sans is ness is obviously confirmed by toby fox on Deltarune / Undertale: 201x newsletter on 2015 am, and 2015 miniseconds.
they were only bad because it was early, and we had bad info on Undertale early on. trust underlab is the undergoat (but these theories are ass)
Kinda, their Deltarune videos were also pretty..questionable theories.
I'd really like if they came back though
It's not that, the information about Undertale almost gives and the game has not changed anything, only Undertale fans learned to read
i mean, not really. theres so much misinformation about undertale and about 90% of it can be remedied by just...reading the narration. because 90% of it is explained, clearly implied, or outright _stated_ in-game. you can make the "bad info" argument about _deltarune,_ because its an unfinished game, but undertale was a full package. there was never a lack of information. just a lack of media literacy.
Sans is ness confirmed by fox toby
I think I know why some people hate this theory now.
foby tox*
I think that was a joke on Toby’s part or perhaps as a sign of respect towards MatPat
@@Setvoided it's canon, because sans and papyrus are ness so they cannot be brothers!!!1!!1
Sans AND papyrus are ness
I love how the line at 13:16 goes entirely against the stuff he said in his genocide theory
meth labs
Is that Ralsei Dreamweaver!
@@scizorscyther694 yep
Mettaton D.E.A
Walter is that you
15:46
The war happened during medieval or ancient times, maybe even before that.
Asriel was born when tape records aready existed.
It can't be about Asriel because he was born in modern times.
The war happened in like, 0xx to 10xx at MOST?
Chara and Asriel thing happens during 201x, so yes, the writtings were ancient and never were about Asriel.
Respect.
I'm not normally a Grammar Nazi, but there is one mistake I should point out, as it was consistent throughout the entire video: it's spelled "choice".
I have more to say, but I accidentally hit the Cancel button and lost everything, so I'm going to do it this way:
1. If you look closely, Undyne the Undying is not wearing her eye patch. It appears that her eye really is missing after all.
2. Frisk didn't have to go through the barrier in the Neutral Route; they ended going around it thanks to Flowey wisking them into the void where the Omega Flowey battle takes place.
3. Tsundereplane is likely a ghost that's become corporeal in an airplane body.
this wouldn't explain subsequent neutral routes where the Flowey fight never happens, but Frisk still somehow escapes
@@FastKnight401flowey uses the souls to push frisk through the barrier
@@-psychokinesis why though. It's not like Flowey cares about what happens to you?
Bro worked on his thumbnail for once
Mans got a point lol
Fr he is no longer lowqualityguy01
it... it looks worse than the simple ones *imo*
he made it intentionally look like one of Underlab’s thumbnails
I feel like the most powerful monsters would be
1. Annoying Dog (canonically created the game)
2. Asriel (has all the souls)
3. Gaster (has insane stats in the code)
I think gaster is stronger than asriel (his stats are high enough to 1 shot asriel)
4:48 I always thought ruins dummy and napstablook might be the same person, but that interpretation has a lot of holes.
That would imply that Mad Dummy literally just made up a reason to attack Frisk, which...
Yeah, seeing that she doesn't even remember the Ruins Dummy's name, that's accurate to her. nevermind.
4:48 I'm just gonna go out and say.
Mad Dummy shows a lot of bravery in Genocide, being the first to *directly* attempt to confront Frisk and stop the genocide route. They have the abilities needed to take Frisk down, and they know that, so even after Frisk walks by, not even attempting to go after them, *they* initiate the fight. They intercept Frisk's path, and with nothing but their rage and the desire to avenge their cousin and the Ruins monsters, are prepared to create a battle that won't end until Frisk dies. Even if it means fighting them... Forever. Forever! FOREVER!!!!
The Ruins Dummy, meanwhile, will patiently sit there in the Ruins, and has seemingly been there for a long time, since Toriel is surprised when they get bored and fly off. The literal only trait shown is patience. Plus, they're actually in the location with Patience's items.
The theory could've been somewhat decent if they remembered the Ruins Dummy. Not great, but it wouldn't require stretching *as* much as it does, and wouldn't require Gaster because Gaster.
13:00 And that's where Underfell came from.
21:40 There's actually nothing in the game implying Chara's SOUL shattered, plus confirmation that Chara's SOUL would contain the entirety of Chara's being, and therefore has to exist for Chara to exist, but like.
The lack of a monster SOUL in that heart in True Lab already debunks it being Chara's SOUL. The fact it's not glowing proves it's not a human SOUL. The fact Alphys hasn't used it to break the barrier proves it's not a human SOUL. The fact this theory needs to Gaster because Gaster is probably proof that it's not a human SOUL.
32:20 Four words. Flowey after the credits.
44:50 Flowey, with six human SOULs, has more than enough power to get himself And Frisk through the barrier. The requirements aren't "One human and one monster SOUL," it's "SOUL power equal to or greater than one human and one monster SOUL." Six human SOULs is stronger than one human one monsters, nearly six times as strong, so Flowey has more than enough to pull Frisk through.
46:14 Other concept art from this time contradicts information we're given in Snowdin, such as there being a towel under Sans's chair to catch the ketchup or soda he drinks, later explained by it automatically being absorbed into his body. Meanwhile, the spell system is set magic spells, not expressing with magic. Just like the seven *humans* who cast the barrier could cast spells, but couldn't express themselves with magic.
47:22 Just reading the title, Toby has openly stated more than once that he wanted Undertale to look bad. Also Toriel's eyes are red. Also dialogue implies it's based on SOUL color, as Papyrus, Undyne, and Muffet mention Frisk's color changing when the color of their SOUL changes.
51:50 Ngl, I'm gonna agree with Underlab here. Sans definitely does have this power. The Determination explanation is blatantly wrong, but the idea itself is correct.
Sans: "oh yeah, I wanted to ask you something." *Freezes time*
When time is unfrozen,
Sans: "by the way... i was going to say something, but i forgot."
This dialogue right here. He asked what he wanted to say, but time was frozen when he did, so to everyone else, he said that, then left. Also, Papyrus directly mentions his influence over time and space.
Papyrus: "IS SANS PRANKING YOU ACROSS TIME AND SPACE? I HATE IT WHEN HE DOES THAT!"
So... yeah. He pranks people across time and space, meaning he's able to manipulate it. That's simply confirmation.
However, 52:20, the reason they don't die is because he Didn't just take their SOULs. Backtrack to Snowdin after being Asriel, and talk to QC in the shop. She talks about what happened, and how not just her SOUL, but her *body* was absorbed by Asriel. So, Asriel absorbed the monsters entirely, then released them later, with no harm done. It's also stated by Alphys in her entries that extracting a SOUL from a living monster *instantly* kills that monster, so he had to do it without removing the SOULs from their bodies.
58:04 Noteworthy detail. Monsters have the standard fight screen, and anyone in that screen is internally considered a monster. Flowey, who is not a monster, is never considered a monster internally, and is always kept separate from battles with monsters. The code pretty clearly distinguishes non-monsters from monsters, and Tsunderplane is considered a monster. Also, ghost monsters exist, Tsunderplane could just be a ghost-possessed plane.
In simpler terms: If you fight them in the normal battle system, they're a monster, and the code reflects this. If you don't, they're Flowey, and have entirely unique logic distinct from monsters.
59:19 me when Monster Kid directly calls it Asgore's castle in unskippable dialogue, meaning anyone who saw that castle and can read knows it's stated to be Asgore's
Outside of fanfiction or the end game dialogue dump from Flowey, you can't justify the Genocide Route. It's like trying to justify stabbing a man with a kitchen knife.
I find myself mostly agreeing with everything you have stated here, but I think you are selling theory number 4 a bit too short. But I am not talking about the conclusion (Monsters being secretly evil) because I also think that's dumb, but rather some of the evidence presented there. Let me explain.
I think the tablets in Waterfall must predate Asriel by a long time, and depict very ancient history even compared to him.
Not only do they never mention him, and from beginning to end only talk about the ancient war with humanity which is an event that definitely predates him, but assuming that what is being described at the start is Asriel creates a gaping hole in the narrative, which is to say: how did Chara and Asriel know their plan would even work?
Chara is a child from the Surface who would have zero knowledge of how Monsters work, let alone knowledge that they can absorb a Human Soul, especially if Monsters themselves didn't know about it already. These lore plaques provide a simple way for either of them to have learned about this fact, explaining how Chara could ever come to the conclusion that lead them to their plan of sacrificing themselves. This also explains why Humans, though stronger than Monsters, would suddenly start a war with them.
The fact Monsters can take their Souls couldn't have just been a random assumption that they woke up knowing about one day, there must have been a reason that would push them to action. Something like that would definitely alert them and disrupt the peace that had endured for as long as anyone can remember.
The real problem with Underlab's theory ISN'T the evidence, but instead, the conclusion. This could have easily been titled "Why did the Humans start the war?" and go and explain all of this, and it would have been a fine, even compelling theory! But nope, Underlabs had to try and shoehorn in how monsters are actually evil, how they were secretly very powerful and scary, and how they were the ones who started the war, when as you said "one bad apple does not make one bad tree".
The idea that the taking of a Soul is what caused the conflict makes it more nuanced, allowing the Humans to appear less like mindless aggressors... but it really doesn't have to come at the cost of Monsters, making it lose nuance AGAIN. Heck, even assuming a Monster absorbed a Human Soul in the distant past, we can't even know if they weren't themselves misunderstood somehow, or acting up from grief or anger... grey situations are Undertale's cup of tea after all.
But nope, all Monsters bad. That conclusion ultimately spoiled a very sensible theory, which is quite a shame.
If sans is the yellow soul human and also ness and ness is matpat so matpat is clover
i honestly, i appreciate the conclusion because it's getting to what the heart of theorising is about! one of my favourite undertale/deltarune theorists, halfbreadchaos, usually makes seemingly outlandish speculations -- which is what makes theorising so fun and interesting. i'm honestly glad underlab was there while i grew up, because having them and other theorists just helped me learn so much about undertale.
that doesn't mean i don't HATE the "is the genocide route justified" theory LMAOOOO
HELL YEAH HALFBREADCHAOS METTIONED!!!!
I like to watch the silly deltarune theories by Bread when I'm drawing or studying at school and while listening to it :D
@@sh00t1ngst4rzz ITS SO FUN!! they have sick theories
Underlab was to Undertale what Jaru is to Deltarune.
22:35 You already know human souls have the power to survive after death, so why would it be different when it's fused with a monster soul? If anything, the determination would just preserve both souls.
37:00
Toby said that made frisk yellow for the player interpretation, he even said sorry for thqt, saying that he wont do that again in the next games
DUDE THE WAY YOU DESTROYED THE FINAL THEORY
39:44 i would think undertale is a bedtime story as the soundtrack starts with ‘once upon a time’ and ends with ‘good night’
Red is PROBABLY determination, even if never explicitly implied. Your soul color is determined by your main trait.
The other humans had determination, just not so much that it was their main soul trait. That's what makes Chara and Frisk so powerful. They had an abundance of it. Chara was already suicidal though, so they never bothered to come back (of their own accord) when the humans killed them and Asriel.
Honestly, considering that a Red Soul has only been seen when being controlled by a player, and the fact that the only hint we get about the nature of the red soul in Undertale being the Ball Game stating that it’s some sort of unification of all the traits, I honestly think Red could mean anything from love, to L.O.V.E, to Control, to Freedom. But determination is probably just something else.
@@jacksonvoet8312based guy made a frisk analysis video which has the concept of the red soul representing ‘individuality,’ which is cool.
but determination is definitely not a soul trait, it’s something all humans produce in Undertale
@@-psychokinesis Yeah, that’s also a good idea.
Haven't watched the "genocide route is justified" one yet, but i bet he fumbles so hard that he accidentally makes an argument that justifies a real genocide, comment if I'm right
1:10 well that was painfully loud cuz I had the volume high since the music was calm. But I guess sudden ear damage is a staple in RUclips nowadays
Wait, was the Ruins Dummy actually confirmed to be a ghost living in a dummy? I just always read it as Mad Dummy having gone completely insane/delusional and was looking for an excuse to attack Frisk.
It does turn to dust when you kill it and flies away when you miss too much.
4:37 are we just gonna ignore that that sprite has never been confirmed to be gaster? That guy could just be Peter Florian Johnson for all we know.
"Genocide route is justifiable" is the craziest title I've ever seen.
Oh hey, i thought i was the only one who thought papyrus mentioning "endings" didn't actually mean anything
"Monsters used to be humans"
Meanwhile matpat 8 yr ago crafting the sans is ness theory: 🚬👌🤔
4:40 nonono you don't understand- This is actually genius!! There arent 6 dead children, there are 7!! And what does mad dummy say in his fight? "You scared them right out of their body!" (Or something like that) So- so the ruins dummy is Chara! And thats the moment chara gets stuck to frisk! I mean obviously, the dummy just so happens to be 2 or 3 rooms past their burried body if you consider Chara is burried where frisk falls so- so its GENIOUS I TELL YOU!!! /j /s
(There's 15 ways to debunk that dont bother its a joke)
“Frisk isn’t male or female” wow it’s almost like there are more than two genders
underlab... you cant say that commiting genocide was ok because they appeared infront of you first...
I think the person who hired muffet is supposed to be a meta joke about how people payed for muffet to be a boss in the game and it also explains the "Changing shapes" i dont think its Gaster or Mettaton and i am more inclined to this theory as its really funny
yes.
You should watch JaruJaruJ
They has like, the weirdest theories, like saying that Kris unalived Asriel and poured their dust into Kris horns and hide it somewhere.
And these horns entered contact with a great fountain which generated Ralsei.
And that's only one of their theories.
guess me and my brother aren't related because we have opposite personalities and he's tall and i'm short
Guess Mario and Luigi aren't related because they have opposite personalities and one's tall and one's short.
Mad Dummy as patience is INSANE
Honestly the first theory does get me curious about something... could the souls be tied to a few of the characters we meet? Not literally, but sort of like examples and embodiments of those traits.
For justice and kindness, basically the video, with Papyrus being kindness since hes very positive and nice plus all the cooking motifs in the Flowey section, with Sans being justice because funny justice hall.
For perserverance I think the obvious answer would be Undyne, with her managing to survive a strike and become a hyper powerful monster in the No Mercy route, refusing to give up until her body simply can't anymore.
That leaves Bravery, Patience, and Integrity, with the only main characters remaining being Alphys, Mettaton, Asgore, and Toriel. I could maybe see Toriel being integrity with her leaving Asgore over the whole child murder thing, or maybe Asgore with him trying to keep it together as the leader of monsterkind, trying to save them and break the barrier no matter the cost.
Admittedly not sure where to go from this and it kinda falls apart pretty quickly.
NOOOO NOT UNDERLAB
The theories are really funny tho
Underlab: All monsters are secretly evil and want to kill us
Also Underlab: Toriel has no reason to keep us in the Ruins as the monsters there don't want to kill us
24:15 I know this is a joke but DANG coming from someone who thought Flowey was obviously the 2nd best option, you provide a lot of legit convincing evidence for Gaster.
"so let's see what's in that castle" papyrus: that's the king's castle sometimes i just wonder if most undertale fan's even actually played undertale
Me frantically searching the timestamps to see if my crack ahh undertale theory was featured when i made a post at 3 AM about how sans is actually dead:
10:47 papyrus also love them, he just thinks there’s a time and place for them and doesn’t like to show that he loves them
bro this is straight up a slaughter. Nice work.
That no mercy justified video is so bad. Self defense can be used to justify the neutral routine, not that one.
i feel like most UT/DR theories tend to fall into that hole of fanfic/hypothesis disguised as theories, a great example being the infamously meme worthy "pile of asriel's dust"
a good portion of theories seem to take the matpat view on theories, picking stuff that strengthens their points even if its outside of the game while completely ignoring obvious stuff, which tends to make something thats supposed to be simple into a mess that makes no sense
so imo people going 'underlab bad' seems to me more so hypocritical when 90% of undertale and deltarune theories tend to be hypotheticals with almost no good proof rather than ramblings , not defending the guy, just something i noticed
surprised Treesicle didn't get a mention
I do kinda disagree on the sans timestopping thing because of a few reasons, one is that literately nobody else moves at all while the screen is dark, or even having animation changes, like grillby's flame just goes completely still, and if it was for dramatic effect, why not just like, blot out everything else, and second, there is literately no evidence of sans being able to teleport, while there is actual evidence of freezing time, and also, having more determination tends to give more control over time, which is why when sans does his shortcuts, everything just happens instantly, while at other points like in genocide or against flowey in pacifist, it has little to no effect, because you do just simply have more determination by those points, and while it doesn't really make complete sense why sans specifically has it, there's some things about sans and pap that make absolutely no damn sense either, like how papyrus just can casually defy gravity
You literally got wrong.
Having more Determination means controlling the "timeline", not time.
Also if Sans was able to stop time fully, he would have used this to go surface and get some souls and then come back to surface.
Also Sans never uses that time stop ability during fight.
Just becasue it once happend for dramatic effect, people literally cant accept that it isnt his ability.
Also if Sans had "more determination", he would melt at first place since monster bodies cant maintain DT and sans like literally has 1 DEF.
No, flowey isnt a monster, so he doesnt melt as monsters cant also absorb other monster souls but flowey can since he isnt a monster anymore.
There is evidence he can teleport. But besides that, I do agree with you and think Sans can time stop personally and there is evidence he can. Beyond even the Grillby’s scene. Like in Sans! fight and I’m pretty sure he dies actually use it against Flowey too at one point to help you.
Besides me thinking Sans can teleport (as well as time stop), and there is evidence he can (like when he keeps showing up on the other side of u as u go back and forth with no effects of the clicking that can happen with time stops imo. And him teleporting ur soul to keep you in place during his fight. And etc.).
I do agree with a decent amount of ur comment still.
@@AntError_exist He does most likely use it in his fight actually. Like when he literally changes his attack from one thing to something else w/o any transition?
Also, how would Sans being able to time stop allow him to be able to get through a magical barrier?
That makes no sense.
And even if he could, why would he do so?
Sans does not care about getting SOULs are going to the Surface anymore. So why would he, even if he could?
"Having more Determination means controlling the "timeline", not time."
U are literally controlling time. U can go back in time, and even refuse death. DT can control time and fate. Saying it controls the "timelines" not "time". Seems very semantic-y tbh.
"Just becasue it once happend for dramatic effect, people literally cant accept that it isnt his ability."
Because the way it is used in Grillby's seems more like just dramatic effect. And because he seems to use in another times in the game. People think he can do it, because there is some evidence that he can.
Yeah, I actually really like the interpretation that Sans is pausing time instead of teleporting, though I don't agree it's tied to Determination. Determination, as far as we're aware, is only capable of 'de-termination' abilities, or things that prevent you from dying. Saving/Loading and Refusing. Pausing time doesn't directly tie to preventing you from dying, so it doesn't make sense that Determination is responsible for that. (Plus, it would imply that Sans has a lot of Determination, which is not well evidenced).
You can interpret Sans pausing time as potentially being an exploit of the pause system of the game, as we don't know what systems Sans does and doesn't have access to to manipulate. Or it could just be an ability that he has access to.
Having Time Stop would allow Sans to appear to teleport around while also not having to open up the question of: why can't Sans teleport through the Barrier?
It also better explains his attacks where the screen entirely changes. It could just be that he teleports you to somewhere that has the bones already set up, but it could also be that he paused time and moved the bones around before unpausing time.
Also, Frisk sometimes and sometimes not being included in the time stop isn't an issue, Sans seemingly just has the ability to decide to include them or not (which is the same for teleports, he has the ability to decide to bring Frisk or not.)
Like.. His teleportation feats can all easily be time pause feats instead and we're just not usually included in the time stop. Sans doesn't do enough with either feat to 100% confirm which it is
To prove it's teleportation, he would have to teleport somewhere that he physically is incapable of getting to without teleportation.
To prove it's time stop, he would have to make more drastic changes to the world around him that can't be replicated with a simple teleport or allow us to hang out in frozen time with him.
He never gets close to doing the teleportation feat, everywhere he teleports to he could pause time and just walk there.
He does, however, have evidence of the other two feats. Geno battle suddenly changing and Grillby's date. The geno fight could just be Sans teleporting you to somewhere where the bones are already set up, so not ideal evidence. But with Grillby's we specifically see time freeze and the only way to say that time didn't freeze is just by saying it was a stylistic decision. Which is definitely possible but seems odd to do.
Either way, there's more evidence of time freeze than teleportation technically.