While I believe adventure fans need to have their gameplay reintroduced, I also disagree when you say the boost has no potential, because I've always thought it could be the base for a platformer that plays almost like a spectacle fighter akin to DMC. To give an example of tweaks I'd make: - Reintroduce tricks, give them a button to use while airborne or grinding and a button to finish the combo. In 3D, finishing the combo would launch Sonic in the direction the analog is facing or up idle. - Remove sidestep or at least restrict it to those sections like in Colors, freeing those buttons. - Adventure controls at slower speeds, Sonic gets more unruly the faster he is. - Make his moveset more dynamic, wallriding, homing attack with momentum if you keep holding it, stomping speeds up the more time you're airborne and, with a well-timed boost, redirect that speed forwards. And the most important: Make score matter. Add scoring opportunities like in adventure for doing risky things (e.g. add a “near miss” bonus for sidestepping at the last second, in those scripted sliding events in shadow, I also imagine getting a bonus for reaching the rainbow rings), chaining enemies, etc. That not only matters for ranking but would also be the primary way of filling the boost gauge, which now would be way more limited to incentivize scoring. Or, you know, Sonic Rush 3 with hand-drawn sprites like WarioWare: Shake It. (Edit: wrote this before reaching that part lmao)
@@PDS350 well today I was time attacking sonic unleashed shamar act 1 and I was trying to get a good run, and in one of my atempts I got a 3:05, and I noticed that I got an A rank and I told myself "I did a lot of blunders and missed some skips and choked in one section, I can do better", then I got a time of 2:48 and I got a B rank "hahaha, really? I did better and got a worse rank lol" the reason I got a B was because I took a hit "how can I improve my time? Hmmm, oh wait! I missed this one skip" so I replayed it and I got a time of 2:43 and got a S rank(and I didn't take a hit)
Sonic Rush 3D made me realize how much I love spamming the trick button so yes tricks would be good. makes flying through the air or even automated sections way more engaging even if it's just spamming a button
@@GidiGoatGuyI mean, you could do tricks in the air like in SSX Tricky or SSX 3, where you actually have to time your tricks and land with the proper orientation or risk falling on your face.
Still glad he made this Sometimes during the streams I had a hard time understanding his positions when it came to this topic I have a way clearer idea of what he wants sonic's direction to be even if I still disagree with some of the stuff presented here
Something I'll say is that the Sonic cast is in _desperate_ need of new models. Not full redesigns, just new models that are more expressive and change some proportions a bit (think the "muzzle curve" fans always argue about)
I think a reboot is necessary for this franchise to ever reach its potential again. It’s just gone in so many different wrong directions for far too long, to the point where course correction alone isn’t enough. Sonic needs a clean slate and a true return to his roots and fundamentals
I think soft rebooting is better. Go forward with an idea of what they want to do, and just act like the contradictory parts never happened. Sonic already has already suffered years of being lost in the past, it would be a spit to the face to invalidate the whole series and then spend another decade or two remaking the original stories so that they can still be canon and characters can be introduced. Especially after they just spent Frontiers and Shadow Gens reestablishing the characters to move forward with. Like I love the Sonic movies to bits, but I would be very resentful to them if all of a sudden they actually replaced the current canon. Same thing happened back with Boom, part of the reason people were upset at it (beyond the bad gameplay) was the Boom games got a lot of attention and a TV show, without any news of the core series - pretty much no one wants the core Sonic replaced, fans would be rabid if Sega tried it.
the thing with your classic sonic modern sonic split idea is that, i mean, yeah, who doesn’t want just more sonic, but i don’t think that could ever work realistically. having these two separate branches that are each doing 2d platformers and 3d platformers and their own spinoffs and stuff would cause a lot of brand confusion, even if how the games actually worked were entirely different. if they actually tried doing that i feel like audiences and sega would end up finding it homogeneous and one branch would just end up eating the other and we’d end with one sonic in the end again.
honestly i used to think that there _should_ be only one sonic, and that the games would progress linearly from sonic 1 all the way up to now, but then i remember that a _lot_ of media franchises don't do this. spider-man has two whole MOVIES about how they don't do this and it _celebrates_ that they don't do this, with another one coming up. really, not every sonic story _needs_ to be related or interconnected
Bruh, peep this one. Like, really peep this one. NOOO MORE SONIC! NOOO MORE BOOST! NOO MORE BINARY AUTOMATED DESIGN! NOOO MORE CONTINUITY ERRORS! YOU'VE BEEN REBOOTED.
End of an era. I hope Pariah expands his horizons to more than just video games. I’d love to see more anime and movie reviews from other series he’s willing to talk about for 40+ minutes.
rhis does open my eyes more that the MCU are to blame for everything being unified. We used to be contempt on axxepting everything being the same but different
End of an era ,really enjoyed most of your videos not just about sonic since you have very interesting perspectives and sometimes you genuinely convince me about something ,I used to love limited lives until I watched your video about them ,excited for next year videos ,good day
It's kinda funny because before Sega just went and said that all the games (and the IDW comics) are canon, I kinda just assumed that some of the games are their own thing. Maybe not most because at the time, there was an (lousy) effort to connect them all, but then there's games like the Riders series which are even more out of place in my opinion with their Sci-fi design. But with GUN still a thing there, it's either that this takes place in the far future somehow with GUN persisting, or it's just an alternate world where GUN also exists.
Well now they are, and all it takes is a clever writer to come up with a way to make them fit together, like saying the place where riders takes place is just more technologically advanced than the rest of the world.
I either heavily disagree with your videos or think that you have objectively correct takes on the franchise This video is the ladder I think sega after frontiers 2 should just hard reboot the franchise and split the development of the series across multiple studios (sonic team would be working on the high budget mainline games while the B tier "adventure team" would be working on the more experimental 2D and 3D games Also sonic absolutely needs an anime thats actually written well and has extremely well choreographed action scenes
Final video, this is it. We can finally see this channel move forward and see it grow in different places other than Sonic. We have video games ahead of us.
@KookyKot1880 yeah lol. I highly doubt he will never talk about Sonic again. I don't see the point in dropping it completely to expand the channel when he could just do that and talk about Sonic when he feels like it
I really enjoyed your Sonic videos, but can't wait to see your future videos from here on out. I really loved the ideas of calling Classic/Modern Sonic Mega/Millennium Sonic and your idea of a Knuckles Metroidvania sounds like a game I'd fuck with.
Fly free, Pariah! Thanks for all the Sonic videos, it’s been nice getting to hear your thoughts and interesting facts about the series and look forward to your next non-Sonic videos!
I love a lot of your ideas, even if I disagree with some of your takes. Specifically, I don't really understand the extreme hatred for the boost. Practically speaking, I'd argue it's not very different from the spindash, especially with the more recent games (Cyberspace in Frontiers, Shadow Generations) that have slowed down the boost to allow for more precision and a stronger emphasis on platforming. You even said yourself that the design of Shadow Generations isn't far from Adventure 2, and I personally found the Cyberspace levels from the Final Horizon DLC of Frontiers to feel very similar to Adventure 1 with how open they are and how they encourage huge jumps with the spindash (which is basically just an extremely overpowered version of the boost in that game anyway). In other words, if they have shown that boost gameplay can easily have the same strengths as the Adventure games when implemented well, why should they throw it all away? What good would come from replacing the boost with the spindash? I feel that the issue has less to do with the mechanic itself and more to do with the basic, repetitive design of the boost games and Sonic Team's failure to truly innovate and improve upon the boost formula over time. I would prefer for them to just rework their level design philosophy and certain mechanics to make the gameplay of the modern games feel more engaging and dynamic while still retaining the boost. Get rid of the homing attack chains and side-step sections, make the homing attack a more interesting mechanic (I can think of several ways that could be done), incorporate far more platforming and natural ramps like the Final Horizon Cyberspace stages, and keep automation to a minimum (basically only using it for brief, rare spectacles to make certain stages more memorable). That's already a blueprint for S-tier modern Sonic gameplay in my opinion, and that's before even considering new mechanics or further ways to spice up the formula.
Well said here, The Boost isn't the problem. It's Sonic Team relying on it too much and having it as a crutch. When he says what these failures are the only thing I can look to is Forces since that game failed to innovate on the boost design, and relied on nostalgia for every era of Sonic fans to buy into it. Shadow Gens proved it can work, but work still needs to be done to improve
In the first few minutes of the video I was thinking of how the Mega Man franchise handles it's own sub-series but after watching the whole video I see that your vision is completely different.😅
this is exactly why i subscribed. he has the best opinions that no one really thinks of when it comes to sonic. if this is exactly where sonic went into the future i would be so happy. truly peakriah695
Here is a Knuckles game concept: Player participates in the bowling championship but not as Knuckles. Knuckles just watching TV in a hotel room. "KNUCKLES: the game"
Honestly these are really great plans for the franchise. Hopefully the next sonic game following up shadow generations will be good. Also can't wait to see what else you cover besides Sonic. I'm very interested(Also emailed you about my Sonic RPG project before, thanks again for the tips lol)
About the Homing Attack, there's a demo from SAGE this year that changed how it works fundamentally. It can only be done when going fast enough, and it carries your speed. You can even use it to smoothly redirect yourself. It's seamless and doesn't feel like the homing attack we know, and I feel like that's like a gold standard if we had to have it.
If they dont reboot thing they should at least let characters develop in the games to justify their places in the story better, like I always imagined it would be nice to have Rouge be able to have a better relationship with Knuckles, good enough he can let her watch the master emerald, she gets to be wih the gem and he gets to do whatever he wants and it would be a great show of trust between the two. Or if Silver has to keep showing up and keep on saving the future even if it gets ruined a week later again, have a story about it, how he lives in a world where he is the only constant, that sounds pretty lonely and how he has come to feel more at home in the past, you could even end this arc by him just admitting he likes the past and implying he can show up just because he wants to, it would make his presence less of an issue, and if you want include Blaze in that story, show us how she goes from accepting friendship to seeking moments with friends, as an introvert the jump from being the friend that just goes along to the one making the plans is big. Like, stories dont have to grandious, they just have to be something, characters improving for the better and that would be good enough.
Metroidvania seems like the best place to take 2D classic Sonic, I agree. It's the same gameplay, but in a new format and it being a Metroidvania means they can have backtracking and reuse level design. It also just allows for a lot of fun and creative ideas like having fast sections segway into new areas, or having the potential for sequence breaking. And then on top of that, it could attract the Metroidvania crowd.
A 2d Sonic Metroidvania would be cool, it would make Classic Sonic gameplay feel so new and a Metroidvania has a lot of potential in Classic Sonic game.
I mean, Super Mario Bros Wonder, Super Mario Odyssey, and Mario and Luigi BrotherShip are basically what I want for this franchise. It's different interpretations of the same characters. But for me Sonic is always Sonic no matter what illation he is, I enjoy Sonic X for it's anime Est vibes and fights, I love Sonic X Shadow Generations for it's gameplay. Yet we whine so much about continuity when we don't know what we're talking about half the time, Since continuity itself is keeping the franchise so stagnate and chained up since nothing is allowed to evolve or experiment. I personally want to see a Sonic Battle spin off with the character's duking it out in small arenas, I mean even Luigi, Peach, and Donkey Kong got their own games. Funny how Mario gets to do this with his series but not Sonic lol. I personally just want to see improvements of all these ideas not tied to cannon and see them branch off with the ideas we loved about Sonic in the first place. The cool radical hog who's allowed to do his own thing from time to time, with Style
32:38 I dislike how these days SEGA has been trying to simplify the franchise to the point there’s now really only two continuities. I loved how they used to do so many different interpretations of the characters, and now it’s just been reduced to a slim amount.
Agreed, It's a shame. Even when I watched Sonic prime it was so lame that we had such a small cast of characters, Boom had more than that at least. Still not all bad since we still got a few left good things in the franchise and a pleatheral of other franchises that will do cool stuff
The thing I would want this series to do is to continue respecting its history, use more of its history including stuff outside of the main continuity, not be afraid to experiment, bring back Sally Acorn, give the games their actual needed dev time, keep the Shadow Gens/Sonic Gens team that the members of are still around, keep doing things with Arzest and have things improve with Classic Sonic with them, bring back Dimps on a few occasions or at least one more time, etc. Idk, those just came to my mind so far.
I have a very similar vision but I wouldn't completely get rid of boost gameplay. I suggest the games be split into 3 branches with 3 games which have 5 - 6 years in development and come out every 2 years. The first branch would be a 3D classic Sonic game with a open zone you can roll around in and 3D levels that play like SRB, GT, Utopia and Encore kinda like Shadow Generations has 1 open zone which sends you to multiple levels. Each level has a ring which sends you to a special stages transform you to a 16 bit version of Sonic from the Genesis days so you get both the original classic Sonic gameplay and something new. The second pillar would be the Adventure pillar with an adventure field connecting various stages that play like SA1 and SA2 speed stages eacg with the 2D speacial stages which play like the Advence games. The final pillar is the Boost pillar with the open zones playing like an improved and perfected version of Sonic Frontiers and Shadow Generations with levels which play like both Sonic Generations levels and Shadow Generations levels. I still believe there is room for improvement in the boost formula since they haven't hit the peaks of Unleashed and Generations since.
Very excited to see you tackle different game franchises. I'd be cool to see you talk about some action games you said you were a fan of like Bayo/DMC/Ninja Gaiden etc. Though whenever you take your channel I bet it'll be awesome. Your Sonic videos were incredibly insightful. Looking forward to more, whatever that is. You're one of the few channels that feels genuine these days. Brimming with honest passion. Thank you for what you do, I wish more channels today were like you.
Tbh I think Adventure remakes are a bad idea because if you give them the FFVII treatment, that will piss off people who like them for what they are, if you give them the N. Sane Trilogy treatment, that'll piss off everyone else. So I would say just leave the past behind personally. For Classic Sonic, definitely do 3D Classic Sonic games, in fact, make a whole trilogy out of it, probably in the style of Mario 3D Land/World, as a way to differentiate it from modern Sonic, preferably developed by both Arzest and the Mania team if that's possible. I feel like you could get away with a cheaper looking artstyle that's only a slight improvement from Superstars. For Modern Sonic, as much as I hate Frontiers, I think it has the PERFECT structure for a Modern Sonic game. Because you can have Open Zone levels that are more in the style of the Adventure games, that bring back some physics and momentum elements from Classic Sonic, while still feeling different from the 3D Classic Sonic games because this is open world. Then you can still have cyberspace levels which are more boost gameplay, no one would mind if the boost gameplay stays a short thing you do occasionally as opposed to being the main game. But it would still please the fans who want to keep seeing the boost. For 2D Classic and Modern Sonic, I think your existing ideas are perfectly solid.
That's an issue that applies to basically any remake, but I actually think it wouldn't be a huge issue in the case of Adventure remakes. The FFVII remake games attempt to reimagine one of the most acclaimed games of all time, and for the most part, they have been quite well-received (both were even GOTY nominees) despite there being so many changes. People are open to change if it is done exceptionally well. For Adventure remakes, it should be easier because unlike FFVII, both of the Adventure games are flawed to the extent that it should be possible to please the vast majority of the audience if all of the biggest issues are addressed in ways that most would consider reasonable. Even if someone doesn't like a few of the changes, they would likely be won over by the vast improvements made in other areas. This is of course assuming that the remakes are done exceptionally well, and I agree with Pariah in the sense that Sonic Team has proven they can do it. It's just a matter of budget and timing.
For the most part, I can get behind what Pariah laid out here. However, there are two things that I would do differently… 1. At least in terms of cleaning up the Sonic “canon” (barf), I feel like most of the smaller details - things like “why does he have this ability in one game and not in another”, “why have we only seen X character pop up in Y game”, etc. - could easily be handwaved away by saying: “Sonic only uses certain abilities when he wants to, or feels he needs to. And his massive entourage of supporting cast members really only show up when something plot-related actually pertains to them specifically. Otherwise they stay in their own lane and just go about their regular business.” It doesn’t solve *all* of the series’s problems, but it does alleviate most of them. And it’s a bit more upfront about the meta fact that “hey, the creators only bring these characters, abilities, etc. into the games and stories when they want to. Don’t make a huge deal out of it.”, which is (in my opinion, anyway) a more honest way to approach the inconsistencies of the series’s story and worldbuilding. 2. Beyond the obvious spinoffs (I.E. the racing games), I would put Sonic Team to work cooking up a bunch of character-specific spin-off games, many of which would play around with mixing other genres into Sonic’s trademark speedrunning-based platforming. For example…what about a Rouge the Bat-themed spinoff that puts a heavy emphasis on stealth? Not only would it be a great way to expand/evolve the scope of gameplay found in 2D Sonic games, but it would also be a fun way to get a look at what Rouge is up to when she’s not working with Shadow or Sonic. And since it’s a spin-off, we could also play around with potentially reintroducing mission-based objectives and non-linear level design. Maybe even throw in other fun ideas, like unlockable costumes, weapon-like upgrades that augment Rouge’s core abilities, all that good stuff. As another example…why not a Shadow spinoff that plays around with some survival-horror gameplay? We could even flip the script and have Shadow be the “main monster” of the game, with the primary objective being to reach the end of the level/complete the game without being caught by Shadow (a la the Outlast games). Or heck…if we wanna get *really* ambitious, how about a Silver-focused 3D game that takes inspiration from the inFAMOUS franchise and lets Silver use and upgrade his Psychokinesis for both combat and puzzle-solving? Maybe even have the game take place in the future timeline Silver is supposedly from, with zones and aesthetics completely unique to that time period. …Point is, there’s so many different, awesome ideas for spinoff games that could make for fun and compelling gameplay in their own right. And it feels like all of these ideas are being left on the table either because they don’t fit the preconceived notions that SEGA’s C-suite execs have in their head about what is “appropriate” for Sonic’s brand image, or because both SEGA and Sonic Team are still too afraid of fully embracing Sonic’s supporting cast out of fear that it’ll upset people.
I would want the story book game to have remakes and remaster, but I don't want the current voice to cast to do the voice I don't want a roger Craig Smith to do Sonix voice. It would sound bad.
DUDE YES!!! I’VE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS WE NEED A KNUCKLES METROIDVANIA!!! Man, would be so sick! Perfect to explore Knuckles lore and his move set would work perfectly for a metroidvania.
A 2d Knuckles game in a Metroidvania would be fun. The game can do a lot of alternate paths for Knuckles to traverse. I would want a Knuckles Metroidvania.
@@SwordCailburn I think even a 3D Knux metroidvania could be cool. Either or, the genre just makes too much sense for his moveset, no idea how it’s been this long and we still haven’t gotten one.
6:01 Yes! I love this idea, especially as a Metroid fan. Tails Adventure(s) is the only game that’s done this before but I feel like it could be so much better.
What if for that anime recap/original idea we combine and just give another Sonic X-esque anime? The original kind of did that with the original Adventure games anyway, and was almost as popular as the games themselves here in America
Some of these ideas might sound good on paper, but would they be good in execution is what I'm wondering Personally I'd love for the boost formula to stay and continue to be improved, Shadow Gens in my eyes has shown that the boost can still work if done right. But, I wouldn't be angry if they do decide to axe the boost formula.
Yeah you’ve really sold me on this idea. I definitely used to be on the side of the fence that just wanted one version of Sonic for all these different games, but that’s really only because of the direction they are currently going with Sonic where they are trying to pass off the idea that all these games exist in one “cohesive” world and timeline… which is just the most obviously untrue thing I’ve ever heard. So if they were still trying to pass this series off as one cohesive world, then yeah I’d want one Sonic for that. But I do agree entirely that this approach is super limiting. But how you are describing things, where we basically get the original vision of Sonic returning properly as its own branch of the franchise with no compromises and we still get to continue the more Adventure-Modern day Sonic stuff in its own branch where we can go wild with it, yeah this all sounds amazing to me. Because I dearly love the original vision for Sonic and I also dearly love Sonic from 1998-2009, so if we were able to see both of those return and be able to evolve in their own interesting directions, then I would take that opportunity in a heartbeat! And the idea of getting NEW branches to the franchise that are also just as good but doing entirely different things, then yes please. This idea is sincerely too good to be true, don’t absolutely never would happen. But maybe someday, the right person would come along that becomes the new lead visionary for the Sonic brand and that person might be in it for more than just their salary pay and also recognize the same issues you’ve noticed. Stranger things could happen. Also, as your send off to Sonic videos, this is a fantastic one. This series has been fantastic, I’ve loved every single one of your Sonic videos. And I’ve really enjoyed your non-Sonic related stuff too. I’ve been trying to work through several of your game recommendations and you have changed my vision and outlook on both Sonic as a brand, but also gaming as a whole. I will continue to support you and your videos in whatever ways I can, and I thank you for all the entertainment you have provided me over the last year or so since I discovered you! You’re genuinely one of the best RUclipsrs I’ve ever watched.
At first when you said completely separate the classic and modern series you lost me but then i realized that I really do kinda want to see how the themes and gameplay of those games could of evolved without the modern reboot interrupting.
There’s definitely a couple things I’d like to happen in Sonic. 1. Have Metal Sonic become independent from Dr. Robotnik: it’s always bummed me out that ever since Heroes, Metal’s been reduced to Dr. Eggman’s favorite mute lapdog that shows up in almost every game just as nostalgia bait, with exceptions being few and far between. I would’ve rather have him die at the end of Heroes so his story can end on a high note, or have him defect from Eggman permanently and become an independent villain. Maybe even leading a team of other doppelgängers Robotnik made over the years like Metal Knuckles or Tails doll. And I’d definitely prefer if the would appear rarely, like events. And side note, I’d also appreciate if the rule of Metal Sonic not being allowed to talk be lifted. Obviously not as much as Sonic does but how he does in Heroes will do. 2. Update all the 3d character models: I feel like all the models SEGA’s been using since Unleashed have overstated their welcome. Nowadays in promo art 9/10 times they look so stiff and lifeless. And in in-game animations and cutscenes they look so unexpressive and aren’t animated that well, it also doesn’t help that most of them don’t have brows and are forced to emote with their eyelids. With the exception of Sonic Dream Team where they’re animated pretty well. And most of them have details that bother me like Sonic’s stubby, metallic shoes, Knuckles’ thinner dreads that aren’t as flared out as before and him having bigger hands and feet than everyone else, and Metal Sonic’s model as a whole. They gave Classic Sonic, Tails, and Eggman new models in SuperStars and they look better than the old ones. Maybe if they made models that took some ques from some of the better looking models (imo) like both sets of Adventure 1 and 2, 06, and maybe even the Riders models than they would look really good. And 3 (and the one I want the most): Have SEGA stop segmenting off the franchise: Specifically what I mean is having all these characters like Mighty and Ray, Fang, Cosmo, Naugus, and the SatAM cast. And just preventing newer versions of them from being used in the modern games. I’d like it if they did something like what Reboot Archie tried to do and combine all of the different elements of the franchise and reinvent them to fit with the modern stuff into one story. One of the best examples of this being Honey the Cat and how the comic tuned her from a blank slate reference into an actual enjoyable character with a unique personality, and as a cherry on top she was also given a little connection with one of the modern game characters without it being too intrusive, that being how Amy’s modern outfit was inspired by her fashion line. But I also know that this also wasn’t done perfectly for everyone, one example of i can think of are some of the Freedom Fighters, who felt a bit like watered down versions of their Preboot selves. Obviously with characters like them it would probably be better to rework them from the ground up so we could have new stories with old fan favorites and with others like Archie Honey, Mighty and Ray, and maybe even Naugus could work relatively unchanged. And maybe even try some adaptations of some stories like Season 3 of Sonic X. Franchises like TMNT and Transformers have done stuff like this for years so why can’t it work for Sonic?
6:42 If I would give Knuckles a game, it would be a 3D Collectathon while I give Tails the 2D Metroidvania. But honestly, I can go either way. I just want a Knuckles game, Tails Game, more Shadow games, a Silver game, maybe even more, but those are what I specifically want.
Also personally would like to see the Original Saga (1,CD,2,3&K) to get remakes with Generations level design, Superstars Art Style & Mania’s engine/gameplay, then continue on with doing more in series to fix up the timeline order officially while also fixing continuity errors as I do like Sonic (Classic) being Sonic’s (Modern) younger self, as it fits well to be like a shonen protagonist getting a time-skip
YOU FINALLY GOT MY MINDSET ON SONIC, PARIAH! I commend you, mate! Yeah, why restrict the gameplay into the MAIN type. Branch out and make multiple different games! Enhanced gameplay following the Adventure formula, and repairing the flaws in certain mechanics? That would be great? Expanding on Unleashed high speed reactions gameplay intertwined with Gens precision platforming, with their great physics? That would be fun and amazing to see! You could even have games which expand on something like the tether mechanics of Chaotix, or the unorthodox momentum platforming AND combat of the Werehog! There's no reason why Sonic can't be the gameplay ""equivalent"" of Final Fantasy, each expanding and telling their own stories (replace 'story' with gameplay) I don't see why ideas should be dropped or left behind.
I think I would not just don’t want Classic Sonic to be stuck in the past, game design and artstyle wise, but also in universe timeline wise. Give up on Classic Sonic artstyle being the past Sonic and in general, be less afraid to at least sometimes use Modern Sonic elements mixed with Classic Sonic. I wouldn’t mind it if Classic Sonic was most of the 2D games we had moving forward, if they stopped restricting themselves to much to that core Classic Sonic identity. Especially for like one time Classic Sonic games that are even more Modern Sonic if we like. But really I just mostly don’t like the idea of constantly slapping more and more games prior to SA1 in the timeline and making a new Classic Sonic timeline. I want Mighty in a Modern game, I want Trip in a Modern game, I want Seaside Hill in a Classic game, I want Music Plant in a Classic game (Notice how I specifically chose some more cartoony Sonic levels), in general, I don’t want to treat Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic as two separate things, I want to treat them more closer to them being one of the same. At least enough to have Classic Sonic material and Modern Sonic material more often mixing with each other. In general, I kinda would prefer the main series to combine as much of the franchise as possible into one thing, while also making sure we still get games and shows that keeps in style of the games their following up on. Like I’d put Sally in Riders, but still make sure Riders for the most part keeps that Riders 1 style. I would also prefer Classic Sonic to be the main 2D Sonic style, but that doesn’t mean we can’t get another Rush, Advance, etc style games.
I think I agree with pretty much everything except for the anime movies thing. Making anime movies adapting little game scenarios with a handful of changes would probably not be worth it. Instead, I suggest that they could do a little series covering the game stories in a simpler way but making changes to some things, with each episode being only 30 minutes long. They could maybe be done by regular anime studios like Studio Trigger or Wit Studio or just be done by western studios like Powerhouse Animations or Studio Gigex.
You had me on board in the first half but the glazing of the classic era while calling things that came after it mistakes was a biiiiiig Nahhhh from me man.
I could not disagree more strongly with your opinion on continuity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Classic and Modern being the same continuity. It is not creatively holding the series back whatsoever. Continuity is not a prison, it's a tool to enhance the world. Classic Sonic takes place in the nebulously recent but somewhat distant past, that's it, that's literally the only thing you need to consider when making a classic game. Considering how episodic Sonic is already, what even IS THERE to contradict. Was Superstars substantially creatively limited due to needing to maintain continuity with the existence of Dark Gaia? No. Not really. I don't even understand your point about "That would mean Sage would start appearing in classic games." No? Theyre in the past. This already precludes them from being """tainted""" by the modern sensibilities of the franchise entirely beyond a vague easter egg maybe here or there. The mere concept that these aspects being canon (despite complete irrelevancy), is "tainting" the franchise at all comes off as a little pretentious. What would be lost in the separation of these continuities is INFINITELY larger than what would be gained. The modern and classic iterations of Sonic inrich each other's worlds, and the same goes for IDW. I have a lot of issues with IDW, but I don't want it to be decanonized. It adds a lot to the world of Sonic that is absolutely worth maintaining, and while it's not perfect in its execution, it is quite literally the exact thing as your proposed Classic Sonic manga is for the Sonic franchise. It is the canon multimedia outlet for the Sonic franchise, once again, it's not being "held back" by Sonic Canon, enriching Sonic Canon is literally the entire POINT of the book. That's why even from the very beginning, it took place immediately after forces, and implicitly "ported" the entire game Sonic continuity into its own, before it was officially absorbed into the continuity. Game Sonic continuity is literally fundamental to IDW Sonic. Being faithful was its entire PREMISE, _whether or NOT_ you think it executes that premise properly. I for one think there's massive room for improvement (and I think a lot of improvement has been made with the Riders Arc), but the IDW books being canon, again does nothing but enrich the overall world of Sonic. In particular, the Classic specials of the IDW series are pretty much _exactly_ what you're asking for with the Classic Sonic manga, just Western instead of Eastern, and of course, not *nearly* as frequently released. I for one would love a canon Classic Sonic manga in the vein of the one you proposed too, but I find it ironic that in terms of it's literal media role, IDW is identical to what you're asking for. Bottomline. Continuity is NOT A PRISON. Classic Sonic in modern Sonic sharing a continuity only serve to enrich each other, and Classic Sonic is already distant enough to give you the things you're asking for. You mentioned that other multimedia franchises like TMNT have many different continuities as well, and that even Sonic did back in the day with the Western and Eastern renditions of the characters, and that it works fine for them. I agree to an extent, and I think that alternate continuities aren't a bad idea, but A: You shouldn't fracture the one we already have when they are effectively zero drawbacks to it. (I think you really really *really* exaggerated the current continuity issues with Sonic. There really aren't that many beyond like, 06 and Sonic 4. B: I think those alternate continuities would be best served in alternate forms of media, or new spin-off material. C: I would argue that there is a SIGNIFICANT drawback when it comes to those other franchises having so many different continuities. That being, the collective franchises have absolutely ZERO IDENTITY. They're borderline mascots and nothing more. Sonic has an identity, and it's one that's been fairly consistent since its inception. It's just that that identity remains pretty much entirely localized to Japan. The goal should be expressing that identity in the main series for all, not fragmenting the franchise *even more.*
Wouldnt it be weird if 2d mario was labeled as young mario meaning mario wonder happens before mario 64 and 3d mario is old man Mario? Stuff like that is more confusing than pariahs suggestions i think
I find it hilarious how no other fandom argues about whether or not their characters are characterized, this is not even a concern, but with every new Sonic media, this is a genuine concern. I don't see another franchise having games so distinct from each other that it built a fanbase for each of these styles, causing an absurd disagreement among the fandom itself, unlike other franchises, where when the game is different, it is INFERIOR, not another version of that product. I have never seen a franchise stagnate itself in an extremely empty gameplay formula differentiating itself so much from what it originally was, besides Sonic. Not every Sonic game is entirely Sonic, they always throw in something that is successful in other franchises in order to sell, which could be argued if you consider that copying something that is successful is in Sonic's DNA, since he is a copy of Mario, but even there he was different, since Sonic was made from the speedrun magic that Mario 1 had and that was lost throughout its sequels, making Sonic the game you play to build your skill around speedrunning, something that current games do very badly, since they do not favor those who are better on purpose, only making soft QTEs that give a momentary dopamine rush. If you found the change in text simplicity in the third paragraph uncomfortable, imagine what it was like for a Sonic fan from the 90s when they saw that their mascot became an unnecessarily deep anime story. Sonic was so many things and ended up being nothing, being a mascot masked by lies where they say there is a canon, when clearly that is a lie and they don't even try to make it real, they make Sonic so many different things that he ends up being nothing, distancing himself from what the character originally was to the point that I believe that character is already dead. We don't even get quality games, they stay the same all the time and only now have they learned how to make a good game, but I don't want a good game, I want a spectacular game and Sonic CAN do that, they are just too cowardly for that. I wish I had been born in the timeline where Sonic was successful, a timeline where my favorite game, Sonic Adventure 2, was criticized for aging badly because there are dozens of games better than it. It sucks to be a Sonic fan.
@@renansantos6533 Shadow Generations is proof of the franchise's stagnation, until Sonic Frontiers 2 is released, it cannot be said that there will be a renaissance.
Personally i don't think it's the worst idea to have Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic be "different" characters, the only problem I see with that is the fact that if we ever want to have a time story, specifically with something like going to the past like far past. That would probably require a different Sonic design, which isn't bad by all means, but it is kind of jarring to make that change. The only benefit i see with them being separate characters is an excuse to make sonic like Shadow, Silver, Blaze and whoever else have a classic design. Which would be cool but even though a reboot like this could work very well, again i feel it would be too jarring of a change. And the amount of people that would get riled up i think would outnumber the people who don't. At least in specific areas, i believe a lot of this reboot could work though but even just speaking through bias i do think keeping them the same character would make sense regardless. But i think a better way to make the reboot would be instead of having them be different characters they should introduce characters like Mighty and Ray to the modern part of the timeline, put Blaze and Marine in the same dimension and keep them as just characters from the future. Hell i'd argue Silver would make more sense to be in another dimension for whatever reason than Blaze does, or maybe if you want to keep the soul emeralds just say the emeralds evolved over time and that's why they look that way in the future or something. Just idea's but i still like yours.
Sonic Boom was the closest we got to what you were asking which is probably why I feel senses of remorse thinking of it, because if you didn't like Boom, Boom was its own thing, they never tried to put Sticks into Sonic Mania or anything like that (Well minus a mention in Frontiers I guess lol) That and all those weird spinoff games like Sonic Dash and Runners that were just their own little side games free to exist as they were So what I'm saying here I 100% agree on the idea there only being one sonic is just silly and I quite don't like it, you made a good vid!
I personally love the idea of Classic Sonic evolving to where it's a 2D Metroidvania style game, where you can explore environments with effective usage of momentum and freedom of movement. Funny thing about that is Shattered Crystal and Fire and Ice were the closest to that idea of a 2D Metroidvania style Sonic game. I had a lot of fun with those games despite their flaws. Then for modern Sonic, I definitely want Sonic Team to steer that part of the video game franchise towards RPG and open world gameplay, which Frontiers came pretty close towards. After seeing how much the Japanese audience loved Frontiers and how much that game sold over there in Japan, RPG and open world is clearly the way to go for the franchise in order to make Sonic more popular and accessible across audiences throughout the world. After Shadow Generations, I just think that the series needs to actually evolve for a change and completely do away with the speed-racing style of gameplay.
For the most part I agree with some of these ideas - One thing that has to be said in terms of different gameplay is to make sure this doesn't become a case seen in Rockman/Mega Man franchise where (at least from what I've heard) there is an issue of overabundance. That doesn't mean each new games HAS to have something new to justify its release or that it can't have that many titles in general for that kind of gameplay, but there has to be a balance of sort For a racing game, this may be overzealous, but I think having the gameplay and features from Drift 1/2, R, Riders/Free/Zero Gravity, TSR, CrossWorlds, and any I missed can be implemented as a new game where you can race people with a vehicle, hoverboard, on foot, teams etc so it's claim to fame are the various forms of racing and the benefit/deficit each have For your idea on rebooting, it might be best to say they are new rebooted continuities (I know that this already can be confusing because of the different media and their own continuities do their stuff with or without being related to the canon of the games), that way it can be separate but doesn't interfere with the previous continuities everyone knows or is aware of. Arguably, the distinction between what we refer to as Classic and Modern (and even Boom) could be handled by having them be in separate continuities where specific things about the characters, worlds, and general stuff are similar but these continuities are kept separate and appeal to their audiences in general of the brand and specific for its own stuff I do agree with keeping stuff in their own continuities so it doesn't mess with canon cause I know that already is hot debate. Though I wouldn't mind seeing other media for their own continuities, it must be clear that it's in that continuity so there is no confusion in that case. Similar case with TMNT where different iterations of the series have their own appeal from the 1984 comics and later comics, to the animated shows, live action and tokusatsu, films, anime-manga, games, and other media or like Megami Tensei and Persona having their own appeal Hot take, but I am also fine with characters being in game or series exclusive and we don't always need to keep revolving everything around every single character in the series. Like with the Babylon Rogues being seen mainly in the Riders series or we have Emerl in the Battle. Each continuity has their own specific characters and common characters, this is okay with me. Just have it be that they are in the world but are just doing their own thing, if we see them and they are a part of something, then they can be in for as long as necessary, and then that's all for them for that story until the next time we see them. The different continuities can handle them different too. (Semi-related, but I do like what they did with the Master Emerald being more compact with the Paramount series cause arguably, the Master Emerald being big can cause its own problems regarding Knuckles and whether or not people want to keep him on Angel Island or do stuff on his own or with others, that way he could technically do both or can reasonably do one at a time somehow) With spin-offs, it depends cause but I don't know the best answer for this one but yeah
I largely agree with your takes and I do fully agree with the idea of having essentially a reboot of the series that you could build upon the classic and modern (or mega and millennium takes on Sonic) versions alongside other spin-offs with the blue hedgehog. Personally I'm working on a fanfiction writing project that aims draw upon mainly the classic era (specifically the Japanese game stories and lore) but maybe have some select elements from the post Sonic Adventure era but by largely it's own thing overall with original villains and elements drawn largely from outside the franchise as well as from within it. As you said about the Batman: Arkham games and the various versions TMNT, I'm hoping to try and craft a version of Sonic that I'm fully interested in exploring and make it my own rather than just largely rehash what has already been done in past 33 odd years. But yeah shameless shilling aside, you make some great points as I think Sonic is at this point truly malleable and diverse as a character to do a lot with. Good luck with your future content and have a happy new year.
Actually half of the fandom will see this know your right in a way and they would still disagree So this might be pariah's last controversial sonic video. a perfect way to exit this franchise 😄
If I had some power over the series, I'd want a LOT of my ideas realized. Redesign Rouge to feature her SA2 Upgrades, make the Special Stage canon, give Tails a pair of attack drones like the Orbitars in Kid Icarus Uprising and make him definitively orange, that sort of thing. But above all else, there's two game ideas I REALLY want realized. Maybe they could be the same game. I dunno. 1: a game celebrating all the worldbuilding in the Sonic franchise. The stages would be framed as the definitive article for whatever they're representing. For example; Hidden World for the Lost Hex, Collision Chaos or Dubious Depths for Little Planet, and a chemical-less Chemical Plant(so... Scrap Brain but more colorful, like Press Factory Act 1) for the Eggman Empire(with the enemies mainly belonging to the Egg Pawn family) 2: not necessarily Sonic Adventure 3, but I definitely see some parallels that might make Sega want to name it as such. Anyway, the game would be kinda like an attempt at a Days of Future Past for Sonic, but instead of something world shaking happening like everyone dying, it's more of a ambiguous ending so the adventures can still continue, how the hell are the writers gonna top themselves after this, type of emulated series finale. There'd be 6 playable characters. 1: Sonic. Plays like if Sonic had access to both Spin Dash AND Boost. Boosting is basically weaponizing a Sonic Boom, so... No idea how they'd make both fun to use without making either redundant though. 2: Amy. She'd play like a hybrid between her Adventure and Frontiers gameplay with a healthier balance between hammer and cards. 3: Tails. Adventure 1 gameplay, minus the racing, but with the addition of a pair of attack drones hovering behind his shoulders, emulating mech/gamma gameplay. 4: Knuckles. Exploration Beat-em-up, though not necessarily treasure hunting. 5: Rouge. Honestly don't know how she'd play differently from Knuckles, but she'd be the only one of the playable roster to be able to use grind rails, cause debut game Kirby Star Allies edition go burr 6: Tangle. There's all sorts of examples for her, but she'd also have the exclusive gameplay ability to use Color Powers, making her a catch-all representative of her and Whisper's team(not entirely sure the Neo Diamond Cutters are gonna be around for much longer). The main antagonist is Eggman and this time there's no betrayal in the final hour. This time Eggman's Final Boss Mech IS the god-like threat that requires a transformation to fight.
You know what? I actually had an idea similar to yours where I’d reboot the Sonic franchise but I’d fill in the audience with a Sonic X styled anime where it’ll basically recap the past and we can make retcons and whatever and basically use that as a lore bible in a way plus given that it’d roughly follow the games’ timeline, it’ll provide seasons worth of content for a long form anime with multiple arcs and you can even clean some stuff up by combining certain stories where necessary and then have big budget anime movies for big event stories similar to Demon Slayer. I’d still keep Classic Sonic’s design as the younger version of Sonic in this anime. I think it just works well.
I like a lot of your ideas, like the Knuckles metroidvania, riders game, bringing back and improving the adventure formula, sounds awesome, but overall I'd be a little more conservative about some things, like instead of fully rebooting the series and splitting classic and modern Sonic, I personally would make a Classic game where there's some kind of split in the timeline, maybe like how many games have a good and a bad ending, but they would just culminate in alternative timelines where in one of them all the modern games would have happened as normal, but the other timeline would be completely fresh and designed so that future classic games can have stories that can change the status quo without touching modern games. Rebooting is something that could (and should) be done eventually, but I wouldn't hurry about it, I'd want to see some character arcs reach their conclusions first and then do a reboot in a way similar to what you described it. The reboot probably wouldn't need to affect the alternative classic timeline, since that timeline is already pretty fresh, it doesn't have as many games under its wing, neither does it have a lot of contradicting elements in their stories
espio is pretty high up, his gameplay style of running on walls and ceilings was cool in knuckles chaotix, turning invisible to go through laser gates in heroes and swinging with his rope dart in generations could be a neat idea, plus throwing kunai/stars like shadows spears could be implemented.
2d sonic metroidvania could be cool. one thing I liked in theory about frontiers is that it allowed for linear stages to be bitesized which made replayability really fun and intresting and it'd be cool to have that applied to classic sonic like unlocking a crap ton of smaller quick levels as rewards for exploring the open metroidvania world maybe it could be like, sonic is stuck in some sort of dimension and knuckles explores the real world finding ways to unlock the next area of the dimension to help sonic escape, idk
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Pariah has been set free from the sonic curse. The nightmares, finally they're over.
Nah he’s got one more lol
Sonic Racing Crossworlds:
Wtf is TCW? @@lukescrew1981
@@Whyisthis-t9b well, I guess set free for now
@@Whyisthis-t9bhe is NOT gonna cover that lol
While I believe adventure fans need to have their gameplay reintroduced, I also disagree when you say the boost has no potential, because I've always thought it could be the base for a platformer that plays almost like a spectacle fighter akin to DMC.
To give an example of tweaks I'd make:
- Reintroduce tricks, give them a button to use while airborne or grinding and a button to finish the combo. In 3D, finishing the combo would launch Sonic in the direction the analog is facing or up idle.
- Remove sidestep or at least restrict it to those sections like in Colors, freeing those buttons.
- Adventure controls at slower speeds, Sonic gets more unruly the faster he is.
- Make his moveset more dynamic, wallriding, homing attack with momentum if you keep holding it, stomping speeds up the more time you're airborne and, with a well-timed boost, redirect that speed forwards.
And the most important:
Make score matter. Add scoring opportunities like in adventure for doing risky things (e.g. add a “near miss” bonus for sidestepping at the last second, in those scripted sliding events in shadow, I also imagine getting a bonus for reaching the rainbow rings), chaining enemies, etc. That not only matters for ranking but would also be the primary way of filling the boost gauge, which now would be way more limited to incentivize scoring.
Or, you know, Sonic Rush 3 with hand-drawn sprites like WarioWare: Shake It. (Edit: wrote this before reaching that part lmao)
The only time sonic has made score matter was in sa2, and because of that, sonics gameplay is weaker in SA2 than in SA1
@ it's weaker because it still tried to merge it with the adventure formula, I think the boost is a way better fit for that.
@@PDS350 well today I was time attacking sonic unleashed shamar act 1 and I was trying to get a good run, and in one of my atempts I got a 3:05, and I noticed that I got an A rank and I told myself "I did a lot of blunders and missed some skips and choked in one section, I can do better", then I got a time of 2:48 and I got a B rank "hahaha, really? I did better and got a worse rank lol" the reason I got a B was because I took a hit "how can I improve my time? Hmmm, oh wait! I missed this one skip" so I replayed it and I got a time of 2:43 and got a S rank(and I didn't take a hit)
Sonic Rush 3D made me realize how much I love spamming the trick button so yes tricks would be good. makes flying through the air or even automated sections way more engaging even if it's just spamming a button
@@GidiGoatGuyI mean, you could do tricks in the air like in SSX Tricky or SSX 3, where you actually have to time your tricks and land with the proper orientation or risk falling on your face.
I just want a 3D Sonic game where Sonic's movements aren't too stiff to maneuver around small platforms.
Man went CRAZY after writing that Riders fanfic💀
He's always been like this
Still glad he made this
Sometimes during the streams I had a hard time understanding his positions when it came to this topic
I have a way clearer idea of what he wants sonic's direction to be even if I still disagree with some of the stuff presented here
Aren't we all CRAZY?
Checked the internet lately?
Farewell sonic, forever
Sayonara, Sonic the Hedgehog
@@soloflare9696 Adios, Sonic the Hedgehog
only real ones get the reference
@@lauraikoko B)
JebTube reference
Something I'll say is that the Sonic cast is in _desperate_ need of new models. Not full redesigns, just new models that are more expressive and change some proportions a bit (think the "muzzle curve" fans always argue about)
Your take on classic Sonic is the definition of BASED!
I think a reboot is necessary for this franchise to ever reach its potential again. It’s just gone in so many different wrong directions for far too long, to the point where course correction alone isn’t enough. Sonic needs a clean slate and a true return to his roots and fundamentals
Well time for Sonic to go through its own crisis on infinite Earths
I don't think so.
I think soft rebooting is better. Go forward with an idea of what they want to do, and just act like the contradictory parts never happened.
Sonic already has already suffered years of being lost in the past, it would be a spit to the face to invalidate the whole series and then spend another decade or two remaking the original stories so that they can still be canon and characters can be introduced. Especially after they just spent Frontiers and Shadow Gens reestablishing the characters to move forward with.
Like I love the Sonic movies to bits, but I would be very resentful to them if all of a sudden they actually replaced the current canon. Same thing happened back with Boom, part of the reason people were upset at it (beyond the bad gameplay) was the Boom games got a lot of attention and a TV show, without any news of the core series - pretty much no one wants the core Sonic replaced, fans would be rabid if Sega tried it.
the thing with your classic sonic modern sonic split idea is that, i mean, yeah, who doesn’t want just more sonic, but i don’t think that could ever work realistically. having these two separate branches that are each doing 2d platformers and 3d platformers and their own spinoffs and stuff would cause a lot of brand confusion, even if how the games actually worked were entirely different. if they actually tried doing that i feel like audiences and sega would end up finding it homogeneous and one branch would just end up eating the other and we’d end with one sonic in the end again.
Basically what happened to Mega Man by the mid 2000s.
This is one of those times where the death of tradition handhelds is a detrement.
I definetly think Sega had the right idea with modern doing 3D and classic doing 2D, but Superstars killed that so ig we're back to square 1
honestly i used to think that there _should_ be only one sonic, and that the games would progress linearly from sonic 1 all the way up to now, but then i remember that a _lot_ of media franchises don't do this. spider-man has two whole MOVIES about how they don't do this and it _celebrates_ that they don't do this, with another one coming up. really, not every sonic story _needs_ to be related or interconnected
Bruh, peep this one. Like, really peep this one.
NOOO MORE SONIC! NOOO MORE BOOST! NOO MORE BINARY AUTOMATED DESIGN! NOOO MORE CONTINUITY ERRORS! YOU'VE BEEN REBOOTED.
Peep this:
Give up on video games. Give up on entertainment. Build a house. Raise cows.
God I would kill for a heavily story-focused Sonic RPG
Heard of chrono adventure?
End of an era. I hope Pariah expands his horizons to more than just video games. I’d love to see more anime and movie reviews from other series he’s willing to talk about for 40+ minutes.
Congrats, Pariah! I’m excited to see what comes next for you and your channel.
That One Piece design of Sonic visiting islands is so perfect
snail pfp
I love to see these videos where you go crazy on changes, it's refreshing to say the least.
rhis does open my eyes more that the MCU are to blame for everything being unified. We used to be contempt on axxepting everything being the same but different
End of an era ,really enjoyed most of your videos not just about sonic since you have very interesting perspectives and sometimes you genuinely convince me about something ,I used to love limited lives until I watched your video about them ,excited for next year videos ,good day
23:43 wasn't that one of those stupid bad 2000's games
YEAH it was ... but it was cool 🥺🥺
It's kinda funny because before Sega just went and said that all the games (and the IDW comics) are canon, I kinda just assumed that some of the games are their own thing. Maybe not most because at the time, there was an (lousy) effort to connect them all, but then there's games like the Riders series which are even more out of place in my opinion with their Sci-fi design. But with GUN still a thing there, it's either that this takes place in the far future somehow with GUN persisting, or it's just an alternate world where GUN also exists.
Well now they are, and all it takes is a clever writer to come up with a way to make them fit together, like saying the place where riders takes place is just more technologically advanced than the rest of the world.
I either heavily disagree with your videos or think that you have objectively correct takes on the franchise
This video is the ladder
I think sega after frontiers 2 should just hard reboot the franchise and split the development of the series across multiple studios (sonic team would be working on the high budget mainline games while the B tier "adventure team" would be working on the more experimental 2D and 3D games
Also sonic absolutely needs an anime thats actually written well and has extremely well choreographed action scenes
Final video, this is it.
We can finally see this channel move forward and see it grow in different places other than Sonic.
We have video games ahead of us.
Fnaf
GEX
@lukescrew1981 it is his final Sonic video
I literally said that we can finally see the channel grow, I obviously know this is not the last video
@@Nickika for now
(didn't read whoops)
@KookyKot1880 yeah lol. I highly doubt he will never talk about Sonic again. I don't see the point in dropping it completely to expand the channel when he could just do that and talk about Sonic when he feels like it
I'd vote for Pariah as the new Sonic CEO
agreed
Nah
I really enjoyed your Sonic videos, but can't wait to see your future videos from here on out. I really loved the ideas of calling Classic/Modern Sonic Mega/Millennium Sonic and your idea of a Knuckles Metroidvania sounds like a game I'd fuck with.
I'm gonna wait 7 years for your next sonic video
Fly free, Pariah! Thanks for all the Sonic videos, it’s been nice getting to hear your thoughts and interesting facts about the series and look forward to your next non-Sonic videos!
I love a lot of your ideas, even if I disagree with some of your takes. Specifically, I don't really understand the extreme hatred for the boost. Practically speaking, I'd argue it's not very different from the spindash, especially with the more recent games (Cyberspace in Frontiers, Shadow Generations) that have slowed down the boost to allow for more precision and a stronger emphasis on platforming. You even said yourself that the design of Shadow Generations isn't far from Adventure 2, and I personally found the Cyberspace levels from the Final Horizon DLC of Frontiers to feel very similar to Adventure 1 with how open they are and how they encourage huge jumps with the spindash (which is basically just an extremely overpowered version of the boost in that game anyway). In other words, if they have shown that boost gameplay can easily have the same strengths as the Adventure games when implemented well, why should they throw it all away? What good would come from replacing the boost with the spindash?
I feel that the issue has less to do with the mechanic itself and more to do with the basic, repetitive design of the boost games and Sonic Team's failure to truly innovate and improve upon the boost formula over time. I would prefer for them to just rework their level design philosophy and certain mechanics to make the gameplay of the modern games feel more engaging and dynamic while still retaining the boost. Get rid of the homing attack chains and side-step sections, make the homing attack a more interesting mechanic (I can think of several ways that could be done), incorporate far more platforming and natural ramps like the Final Horizon Cyberspace stages, and keep automation to a minimum (basically only using it for brief, rare spectacles to make certain stages more memorable). That's already a blueprint for S-tier modern Sonic gameplay in my opinion, and that's before even considering new mechanics or further ways to spice up the formula.
Well said here, The Boost isn't the problem. It's Sonic Team relying on it too much and having it as a crutch. When he says what these failures are the only thing I can look to is Forces since that game failed to innovate on the boost design, and relied on nostalgia for every era of Sonic fans to buy into it. Shadow Gens proved it can work, but work still needs to be done to improve
Personally love the Sonic Manga idea as it’s something I wanna work on, but would definitely look at One Piece & Dragon Ball as huge inspirations
In the first few minutes of the video I was thinking of how the Mega Man franchise handles it's own sub-series but after watching the whole video I see that your vision is completely different.😅
this is exactly why i subscribed. he has the best opinions that no one really thinks of when it comes to sonic. if this is exactly where sonic went into the future i would be so happy. truly peakriah695
Here is a Knuckles game concept: Player participates in the bowling championship but not as Knuckles. Knuckles just watching TV in a hotel room. "KNUCKLES: the game"
I feel like Pariah has me in a hostage situation. "Create 2+ completely different Sonic series, or Shadow and Blaze get iced!"
Honestly these are really great plans for the franchise. Hopefully the next sonic game following up shadow generations will be good.
Also can't wait to see what else you cover besides Sonic. I'm very interested(Also emailed you about my Sonic RPG project before, thanks again for the tips lol)
About the Homing Attack, there's a demo from SAGE this year that changed how it works fundamentally. It can only be done when going fast enough, and it carries your speed. You can even use it to smoothly redirect yourself. It's seamless and doesn't feel like the homing attack we know, and I feel like that's like a gold standard if we had to have it.
What's the name of the demo?
@@greenstarforce001 Whoops, I thought I mentioned it. Proto Sonic
If they dont reboot thing they should at least let characters develop in the games to justify their places in the story better, like I always imagined it would be nice to have Rouge be able to have a better relationship with Knuckles, good enough he can let her watch the master emerald, she gets to be wih the gem and he gets to do whatever he wants and it would be a great show of trust between the two.
Or if Silver has to keep showing up and keep on saving the future even if it gets ruined a week later again, have a story about it, how he lives in a world where he is the only constant, that sounds pretty lonely and how he has come to feel more at home in the past, you could even end this arc by him just admitting he likes the past and implying he can show up just because he wants to, it would make his presence less of an issue, and if you want include Blaze in that story, show us how she goes from accepting friendship to seeking moments with friends, as an introvert the jump from being the friend that just goes along to the one making the plans is big.
Like, stories dont have to grandious, they just have to be something, characters improving for the better and that would be good enough.
Metroidvania seems like the best place to take 2D classic Sonic, I agree. It's the same gameplay, but in a new format and it being a Metroidvania means they can have backtracking and reuse level design.
It also just allows for a lot of fun and creative ideas like having fast sections segway into new areas, or having the potential for sequence breaking.
And then on top of that, it could attract the Metroidvania crowd.
A 2d Sonic Metroidvania would be cool, it would make Classic Sonic gameplay feel so new and a Metroidvania has a lot of potential in Classic Sonic game.
I mean, Super Mario Bros Wonder, Super Mario Odyssey, and Mario and Luigi BrotherShip are basically what I want for this franchise. It's different interpretations of the same characters. But for me Sonic is always Sonic no matter what illation he is, I enjoy Sonic X for it's anime Est vibes and fights, I love Sonic X Shadow Generations for it's gameplay. Yet we whine so much about continuity when we don't know what we're talking about half the time, Since continuity itself is keeping the franchise so stagnate and chained up since nothing is allowed to evolve or experiment. I personally want to see a Sonic Battle spin off with the character's duking it out in small arenas, I mean even Luigi, Peach, and Donkey Kong got their own games. Funny how Mario gets to do this with his series but not Sonic lol. I personally just want to see improvements of all these ideas not tied to cannon and see them branch off with the ideas we loved about Sonic in the first place. The cool radical hog who's allowed to do his own thing from time to time, with Style
32:38 I dislike how these days SEGA has been trying to simplify the franchise to the point there’s now really only two continuities. I loved how they used to do so many different interpretations of the characters, and now it’s just been reduced to a slim amount.
Agreed, It's a shame. Even when I watched Sonic prime it was so lame that we had such a small cast of characters, Boom had more than that at least. Still not all bad since we still got a few left good things in the franchise and a pleatheral of other franchises that will do cool stuff
The thing I would want this series to do is to continue respecting its history, use more of its history including stuff outside of the main continuity, not be afraid to experiment, bring back Sally Acorn, give the games their actual needed dev time, keep the Shadow Gens/Sonic Gens team that the members of are still around, keep doing things with Arzest and have things improve with Classic Sonic with them, bring back Dimps on a few occasions or at least one more time, etc.
Idk, those just came to my mind so far.
The Pariah sonic arc is finally over
I have a very similar vision but I wouldn't completely get rid of boost gameplay.
I suggest the games be split into 3 branches with 3 games which have 5 - 6 years in development and come out every 2 years.
The first branch would be a 3D classic Sonic game with a open zone you can roll around in and 3D levels that play like SRB, GT, Utopia and Encore kinda like Shadow Generations has 1 open zone which sends you to multiple levels.
Each level has a ring which sends you to a special stages transform you to a 16 bit version of Sonic from the Genesis days so you get both the original classic Sonic gameplay and something new.
The second pillar would be the Adventure pillar with an adventure field connecting various stages that play like SA1 and SA2 speed stages eacg with the 2D speacial stages which play like the Advence games.
The final pillar is the Boost pillar with the open zones playing like an improved and perfected version of Sonic Frontiers and Shadow Generations with levels which play like both Sonic Generations levels and Shadow Generations levels.
I still believe there is room for improvement in the boost formula since they haven't hit the peaks of Unleashed and Generations since.
Very excited to see you tackle different game franchises. I'd be cool to see you talk about some action games you said you were a fan of like Bayo/DMC/Ninja Gaiden etc.
Though whenever you take your channel I bet it'll be awesome. Your Sonic videos were incredibly insightful. Looking forward to more, whatever that is.
You're one of the few channels that feels genuine these days. Brimming with honest passion. Thank you for what you do, I wish more channels today were like you.
2:19 that explains the thumbnail😂
Tbh I think Adventure remakes are a bad idea because if you give them the FFVII treatment, that will piss off people who like them for what they are, if you give them the N. Sane Trilogy treatment, that'll piss off everyone else. So I would say just leave the past behind personally.
For Classic Sonic, definitely do 3D Classic Sonic games, in fact, make a whole trilogy out of it, probably in the style of Mario 3D Land/World, as a way to differentiate it from modern Sonic, preferably developed by both Arzest and the Mania team if that's possible. I feel like you could get away with a cheaper looking artstyle that's only a slight improvement from Superstars.
For Modern Sonic, as much as I hate Frontiers, I think it has the PERFECT structure for a Modern Sonic game. Because you can have Open Zone levels that are more in the style of the Adventure games, that bring back some physics and momentum elements from Classic Sonic, while still feeling different from the 3D Classic Sonic games because this is open world. Then you can still have cyberspace levels which are more boost gameplay, no one would mind if the boost gameplay stays a short thing you do occasionally as opposed to being the main game. But it would still please the fans who want to keep seeing the boost.
For 2D Classic and Modern Sonic, I think your existing ideas are perfectly solid.
@@lukescrew1981How bout we reboot Sonic and make all the male characters women?
That's an issue that applies to basically any remake, but I actually think it wouldn't be a huge issue in the case of Adventure remakes. The FFVII remake games attempt to reimagine one of the most acclaimed games of all time, and for the most part, they have been quite well-received (both were even GOTY nominees) despite there being so many changes. People are open to change if it is done exceptionally well.
For Adventure remakes, it should be easier because unlike FFVII, both of the Adventure games are flawed to the extent that it should be possible to please the vast majority of the audience if all of the biggest issues are addressed in ways that most would consider reasonable. Even if someone doesn't like a few of the changes, they would likely be won over by the vast improvements made in other areas. This is of course assuming that the remakes are done exceptionally well, and I agree with Pariah in the sense that Sonic Team has proven they can do it. It's just a matter of budget and timing.
it's better to make a good game and piss some people off than just leave it alone, these games deserve proper remakes
For the most part, I can get behind what Pariah laid out here. However, there are two things that I would do differently…
1. At least in terms of cleaning up the Sonic “canon” (barf), I feel like most of the smaller details - things like “why does he have this ability in one game and not in another”, “why have we only seen X character pop up in Y game”, etc. - could easily be handwaved away by saying: “Sonic only uses certain abilities when he wants to, or feels he needs to. And his massive entourage of supporting cast members really only show up when something plot-related actually pertains to them specifically. Otherwise they stay in their own lane and just go about their regular business.”
It doesn’t solve *all* of the series’s problems, but it does alleviate most of them. And it’s a bit more upfront about the meta fact that “hey, the creators only bring these characters, abilities, etc. into the games and stories when they want to. Don’t make a huge deal out of it.”, which is (in my opinion, anyway) a more honest way to approach the inconsistencies of the series’s story and worldbuilding.
2. Beyond the obvious spinoffs (I.E. the racing games), I would put Sonic Team to work cooking up a bunch of character-specific spin-off games, many of which would play around with mixing other genres into Sonic’s trademark speedrunning-based platforming.
For example…what about a Rouge the Bat-themed spinoff that puts a heavy emphasis on stealth?
Not only would it be a great way to expand/evolve the scope of gameplay found in 2D Sonic games, but it would also be a fun way to get a look at what Rouge is up to when she’s not working with Shadow or Sonic.
And since it’s a spin-off, we could also play around with potentially reintroducing mission-based objectives and non-linear level design. Maybe even throw in other fun ideas, like unlockable costumes, weapon-like upgrades that augment Rouge’s core abilities, all that good stuff.
As another example…why not a Shadow spinoff that plays around with some survival-horror gameplay?
We could even flip the script and have Shadow be the “main monster” of the game, with the primary objective being to reach the end of the level/complete the game without being caught by Shadow (a la the Outlast games).
Or heck…if we wanna get *really* ambitious, how about a Silver-focused 3D game that takes inspiration from the inFAMOUS franchise and lets Silver use and upgrade his Psychokinesis for both combat and puzzle-solving? Maybe even have the game take place in the future timeline Silver is supposedly from, with zones and aesthetics completely unique to that time period.
…Point is, there’s so many different, awesome ideas for spinoff games that could make for fun and compelling gameplay in their own right. And it feels like all of these ideas are being left on the table either because they don’t fit the preconceived notions that SEGA’s C-suite execs have in their head about what is “appropriate” for Sonic’s brand image, or because both SEGA and Sonic Team are still too afraid of fully embracing Sonic’s supporting cast out of fear that it’ll upset people.
Sayonara, Sonic the Hedgehog.
Im gonna steal this video idea mister pariah. Gonna watch this when I get home later, hope you have a good holiday!
Storybook remasters for the switch with a new one the next year to complete a trilogy
I would want the story book game to have remakes and remaster, but I don't want the current voice to cast to do the voice I don't want a roger Craig Smith to do Sonix voice. It would sound bad.
@SwordCailburn when adventure 2 got re-released they didn't change the voices so i don't see a reason for them to do that
Next video: I became Sonic CEO
DUDE YES!!! I’VE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS WE NEED A KNUCKLES METROIDVANIA!!! Man, would be so sick! Perfect to explore Knuckles lore and his move set would work perfectly for a metroidvania.
A 2d Knuckles game in a Metroidvania would be fun. The game can do a lot of alternate paths for Knuckles to traverse. I would want a Knuckles Metroidvania.
@@SwordCailburn I think even a 3D Knux metroidvania could be cool. Either or, the genre just makes too much sense for his moveset, no idea how it’s been this long and we still haven’t gotten one.
@@the.bloodless.one1312 I agree with you a 3d Knuckles Metroid Vania would be cool. There is so much potential with a 3d Knuckles game.
6:01 Yes! I love this idea, especially as a Metroid fan. Tails Adventure(s) is the only game that’s done this before but I feel like it could be so much better.
BUT I CARE ABOUT DR. FUKUROKOV BECAUSE NO ONE CARES ABOUT HIM SO SOMEONE HAS TO CARE ABOUT HIM 😤😤😤😤😤😤😡😡😡😡😡😡😤😤😤😤😤😡😡😡😡😡
(This is just a bad joke, guys.)
@@themissingbits6375 Man, now I feel a little guilty for not knowing about that guy, even though I played Tails Adventure(s).
@@artey6671 he’s the owl who got his head caved in with a rock near the end of the game
What if for that anime recap/original idea we combine and just give another Sonic X-esque anime? The original kind of did that with the original Adventure games anyway, and was almost as popular as the games themselves here in America
Why are people saying this is the last video pariah does about sonic
Because it is
@Pariah6950 see you in 5 years
@@Pariah6950I give you 2 weeks.
@@Pariah6950
Good luck for future projects
@@Pariah6950
Good luck for future projects
its nice that people care enough about this franchise too plan out custom games and fix lore
Goodbye SWAG; 3 years of my life. I won't forget you
You have some decent ideas but I sure am glad that I don’t live in the reality where you run the franchise.
Ggs, this is a great final sonic video for now
im in more of the modern sonic camp and i agree so much that its time for the boost to go. its BEEN time
Some of these ideas might sound good on paper, but would they be good in execution is what I'm wondering
Personally I'd love for the boost formula to stay and continue to be improved, Shadow Gens in my eyes has shown that the boost can still work if done right. But, I wouldn't be angry if they do decide to axe the boost formula.
Adios, Sonic the Hedgehog
Yeah you’ve really sold me on this idea. I definitely used to be on the side of the fence that just wanted one version of Sonic for all these different games, but that’s really only because of the direction they are currently going with Sonic where they are trying to pass off the idea that all these games exist in one “cohesive” world and timeline… which is just the most obviously untrue thing I’ve ever heard. So if they were still trying to pass this series off as one cohesive world, then yeah I’d want one Sonic for that. But I do agree entirely that this approach is super limiting.
But how you are describing things, where we basically get the original vision of Sonic returning properly as its own branch of the franchise with no compromises and we still get to continue the more Adventure-Modern day Sonic stuff in its own branch where we can go wild with it, yeah this all sounds amazing to me. Because I dearly love the original vision for Sonic and I also dearly love Sonic from 1998-2009, so if we were able to see both of those return and be able to evolve in their own interesting directions, then I would take that opportunity in a heartbeat! And the idea of getting NEW branches to the franchise that are also just as good but doing entirely different things, then yes please.
This idea is sincerely too good to be true, don’t absolutely never would happen. But maybe someday, the right person would come along that becomes the new lead visionary for the Sonic brand and that person might be in it for more than just their salary pay and also recognize the same issues you’ve noticed. Stranger things could happen.
Also, as your send off to Sonic videos, this is a fantastic one. This series has been fantastic, I’ve loved every single one of your Sonic videos. And I’ve really enjoyed your non-Sonic related stuff too. I’ve been trying to work through several of your game recommendations and you have changed my vision and outlook on both Sonic as a brand, but also gaming as a whole. I will continue to support you and your videos in whatever ways I can, and I thank you for all the entertainment you have provided me over the last year or so since I discovered you! You’re genuinely one of the best RUclipsrs I’ve ever watched.
I'll call up when I make my game. You NEED to be on the team
At first when you said completely separate the classic and modern series you lost me but then i realized that I really do kinda want to see how the themes and gameplay of those games could of evolved without the modern reboot interrupting.
There’s definitely a couple things I’d like to happen in Sonic.
1. Have Metal Sonic become independent from Dr. Robotnik: it’s always bummed me out that ever since Heroes, Metal’s been reduced to Dr. Eggman’s favorite mute lapdog that shows up in almost every game just as nostalgia bait, with exceptions being few and far between. I would’ve rather have him die at the end of Heroes so his story can end on a high note, or have him defect from Eggman permanently and become an independent villain. Maybe even leading a team of other doppelgängers Robotnik made over the years like Metal Knuckles or Tails doll. And I’d definitely prefer if the would appear rarely, like events. And side note, I’d also appreciate if the rule of Metal Sonic not being allowed to talk be lifted. Obviously not as much as Sonic does but how he does in Heroes will do.
2. Update all the 3d character models: I feel like all the models SEGA’s been using since Unleashed have overstated their welcome. Nowadays in promo art 9/10 times they look so stiff and lifeless. And in in-game animations and cutscenes they look so unexpressive and aren’t animated that well, it also doesn’t help that most of them don’t have brows and are forced to emote with their eyelids. With the exception of Sonic Dream Team where they’re animated pretty well. And most of them have details that bother me like Sonic’s stubby, metallic shoes, Knuckles’ thinner dreads that aren’t as flared out as before and him having bigger hands and feet than everyone else, and Metal Sonic’s model as a whole. They gave Classic Sonic, Tails, and Eggman new models in SuperStars and they look better than the old ones. Maybe if they made models that took some ques from some of the better looking models (imo) like both sets of Adventure 1 and 2, 06, and maybe even the Riders models than they would look really good.
And 3 (and the one I want the most): Have SEGA stop segmenting off the franchise: Specifically what I mean is having all these characters like Mighty and Ray, Fang, Cosmo, Naugus, and the SatAM cast. And just preventing newer versions of them from being used in the modern games. I’d like it if they did something like what Reboot Archie tried to do and combine all of the different elements of the franchise and reinvent them to fit with the modern stuff into one story. One of the best examples of this being Honey the Cat and how the comic tuned her from a blank slate reference into an actual enjoyable character with a unique personality, and as a cherry on top she was also given a little connection with one of the modern game characters without it being too intrusive, that being how Amy’s modern outfit was inspired by her fashion line. But I also know that this also wasn’t done perfectly for everyone, one example of i can think of are some of the Freedom Fighters, who felt a bit like watered down versions of their Preboot selves. Obviously with characters like them it would probably be better to rework them from the ground up so we could have new stories with old fan favorites and with others like Archie Honey, Mighty and Ray, and maybe even Naugus could work relatively unchanged. And maybe even try some adaptations of some stories like Season 3 of Sonic X. Franchises like TMNT and Transformers have done stuff like this for years so why can’t it work for Sonic?
6:42
If I would give Knuckles a game, it would be a 3D Collectathon while I give Tails the 2D Metroidvania.
But honestly, I can go either way. I just want a Knuckles game, Tails Game, more Shadow games, a Silver game, maybe even more, but those are what I specifically want.
Best christmas gift
Did I miss something??? When did he say this was his last Sonic video???
In his streams. He’ll come back for Sonic when There’s new stuff to talk about, But Sonic is not going to be a central focus of This Channel.
I'm just as confused as you are. I have absolutely no clue why people are saying this.
It’s very funny to me that the easiest way to fix Sonic to make a 3D Classic game and a 2D Modern game
Also personally would like to see the Original Saga (1,CD,2,3&K) to get remakes with Generations level design, Superstars Art Style & Mania’s engine/gameplay, then continue on with doing more in series to fix up the timeline order officially while also fixing continuity errors as I do like Sonic (Classic) being Sonic’s (Modern) younger self, as it fits well to be like a shonen protagonist getting a time-skip
YOU FINALLY GOT MY MINDSET ON SONIC, PARIAH! I commend you, mate!
Yeah, why restrict the gameplay into the MAIN type. Branch out and make multiple different games!
Enhanced gameplay following the Adventure formula, and repairing the flaws in certain mechanics? That would be great?
Expanding on Unleashed high speed reactions gameplay intertwined with Gens precision platforming, with their great physics? That would be fun and amazing to see!
You could even have games which expand on something like the tether mechanics of Chaotix, or the unorthodox momentum platforming AND combat of the Werehog!
There's no reason why Sonic can't be the gameplay ""equivalent"" of Final Fantasy, each expanding and telling their own stories (replace 'story' with gameplay)
I don't see why ideas should be dropped or left behind.
Hey Pariah, i would love to discuss the future of the franchise with other fans. Know of a good place for that?
I think I would not just don’t want Classic Sonic to be stuck in the past, game design and artstyle wise, but also in universe timeline wise.
Give up on Classic Sonic artstyle being the past Sonic and in general, be less afraid to at least sometimes use Modern Sonic elements mixed with Classic Sonic.
I wouldn’t mind it if Classic Sonic was most of the 2D games we had moving forward, if they stopped restricting themselves to much to that core Classic Sonic identity. Especially for like one time Classic Sonic games that are even more Modern Sonic if we like. But really I just mostly don’t like the idea of constantly slapping more and more games prior to SA1 in the timeline and making a new Classic Sonic timeline. I want Mighty in a Modern game, I want Trip in a Modern game, I want Seaside Hill in a Classic game, I want Music Plant in a Classic game (Notice how I specifically chose some more cartoony Sonic levels), in general, I don’t want to treat Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic as two separate things, I want to treat them more closer to them being one of the same. At least enough to have Classic Sonic material and Modern Sonic material more often mixing with each other. In general, I kinda would prefer the main series to combine as much of the franchise as possible into one thing, while also making sure we still get games and shows that keeps in style of the games their following up on. Like I’d put Sally in Riders, but still make sure Riders for the most part keeps that Riders 1 style.
I would also prefer Classic Sonic to be the main 2D Sonic style, but that doesn’t mean we can’t get another Rush, Advance, etc style games.
Merry Christmas!!
I think I agree with pretty much everything except for the anime movies thing. Making anime movies adapting little game scenarios with a handful of changes would probably not be worth it. Instead, I suggest that they could do a little series covering the game stories in a simpler way but making changes to some things, with each episode being only 30 minutes long. They could maybe be done by regular anime studios like Studio Trigger or Wit Studio or just be done by western studios like Powerhouse Animations or Studio Gigex.
I like the term Legacy for Modern Sonic. Pretty sure Sega has called him that at some point.
You had me on board in the first half but the glazing of the classic era while calling things that came after it mistakes was a biiiiiig Nahhhh from me man.
Great video ! Love the ideas
Now that pariah is free I’m waiting for an “a hat in time”review
I could not disagree more strongly with your opinion on continuity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Classic and Modern being the same continuity. It is not creatively holding the series back whatsoever. Continuity is not a prison, it's a tool to enhance the world.
Classic Sonic takes place in the nebulously recent but somewhat distant past, that's it, that's literally the only thing you need to consider when making a classic game. Considering how episodic Sonic is already, what even IS THERE to contradict.
Was Superstars substantially creatively limited due to needing to maintain continuity with the existence of Dark Gaia? No. Not really.
I don't even understand your point about "That would mean Sage would start appearing in classic games." No? Theyre in the past. This already precludes them from being """tainted""" by the modern sensibilities of the franchise entirely beyond a vague easter egg maybe here or there. The mere concept that these aspects being canon (despite complete irrelevancy), is "tainting" the franchise at all comes off as a little pretentious.
What would be lost in the separation of these continuities is INFINITELY larger than what would be gained. The modern and classic iterations of Sonic inrich each other's worlds, and the same goes for IDW.
I have a lot of issues with IDW, but I don't want it to be decanonized. It adds a lot to the world of Sonic that is absolutely worth maintaining, and while it's not perfect in its execution, it is quite literally the exact thing as your proposed Classic Sonic manga is for the Sonic franchise.
It is the canon multimedia outlet for the Sonic franchise, once again, it's not being "held back" by Sonic Canon, enriching Sonic Canon is literally the entire POINT of the book. That's why even from the very beginning, it took place immediately after forces, and implicitly "ported" the entire game Sonic continuity into its own, before it was officially absorbed into the continuity.
Game Sonic continuity is literally fundamental to IDW Sonic. Being faithful was its entire PREMISE, _whether or NOT_ you think it executes that premise properly. I for one think there's massive room for improvement (and I think a lot of improvement has been made with the Riders Arc), but the IDW books being canon, again does nothing but enrich the overall world of Sonic.
In particular, the Classic specials of the IDW series are pretty much _exactly_ what you're asking for with the Classic Sonic manga, just Western instead of Eastern, and of course, not *nearly* as frequently released. I for one would love a canon Classic Sonic manga in the vein of the one you proposed too, but I find it ironic that in terms of it's literal media role, IDW is identical to what you're asking for.
Bottomline. Continuity is NOT A PRISON. Classic Sonic in modern Sonic sharing a continuity only serve to enrich each other, and Classic Sonic is already distant enough to give you the things you're asking for.
You mentioned that other multimedia franchises like TMNT have many different continuities as well, and that even Sonic did back in the day with the Western and Eastern renditions of the characters, and that it works fine for them. I agree to an extent, and I think that alternate continuities aren't a bad idea, but
A: You shouldn't fracture the one we already have when they are effectively zero drawbacks to it. (I think you really really *really* exaggerated the current continuity issues with Sonic. There really aren't that many beyond like, 06 and Sonic 4.
B: I think those alternate continuities would be best served in alternate forms of media, or new spin-off material.
C: I would argue that there is a SIGNIFICANT drawback when it comes to those other franchises having so many different continuities. That being, the collective franchises have absolutely ZERO IDENTITY. They're borderline mascots and nothing more.
Sonic has an identity, and it's one that's been fairly consistent since its inception. It's just that that identity remains pretty much entirely localized to Japan. The goal should be expressing that identity in the main series for all, not fragmenting the franchise *even more.*
Wouldnt it be weird if 2d mario was labeled as young mario meaning mario wonder happens before mario 64 and 3d mario is old man Mario? Stuff like that is more confusing than pariahs suggestions i think
I find it hilarious how no other fandom argues about whether or not their characters are characterized, this is not even a concern, but with every new Sonic media, this is a genuine concern.
I don't see another franchise having games so distinct from each other that it built a fanbase for each of these styles, causing an absurd disagreement among the fandom itself, unlike other franchises, where when the game is different, it is INFERIOR, not another version of that product.
I have never seen a franchise stagnate itself in an extremely empty gameplay formula differentiating itself so much from what it originally was, besides Sonic. Not every Sonic game is entirely Sonic, they always throw in something that is successful in other franchises in order to sell, which could be argued if you consider that copying something that is successful is in Sonic's DNA, since he is a copy of Mario, but even there he was different, since Sonic was made from the speedrun magic that Mario 1 had and that was lost throughout its sequels, making Sonic the game you play to build your skill around speedrunning, something that current games do very badly, since they do not favor those who are better on purpose, only making soft QTEs that give a momentary dopamine rush.
If you found the change in text simplicity in the third paragraph uncomfortable, imagine what it was like for a Sonic fan from the 90s when they saw that their mascot became an unnecessarily deep anime story.
Sonic was so many things and ended up being nothing, being a mascot masked by lies where they say there is a canon, when clearly that is a lie and they don't even try to make it real, they make Sonic so many different things that he ends up being nothing, distancing himself from what the character originally was to the point that I believe that character is already dead.
We don't even get quality games, they stay the same all the time and only now have they learned how to make a good game, but I don't want a good game, I want a spectacular game and Sonic CAN do that, they are just too cowardly for that.
I wish I had been born in the timeline where Sonic was successful, a timeline where my favorite game, Sonic Adventure 2, was criticized for aging badly because there are dozens of games better than it.
It sucks to be a Sonic fan.
Damn man if you think all of that in this new renascence of the franchise, thank god i'm not you lol
Sucks to be you, not a Sonic fan currently 😂😂😂
Final Fantasy is heading in that direction.
@@renansantos6533
Shadow Generations is proof of the franchise's stagnation, until Sonic Frontiers 2 is released, it cannot be said that there will be a renaissance.
yeah, you pretty much hit the nail on the head
yeah i get the idea. Spider-Man comes to mind, there's like a million versions, all their own thing. it's cool
Knuckles metroidvania would go so crazy
Personally i don't think it's the worst idea to have Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic be "different" characters, the only problem I see with that is the fact that if we ever want to have a time story, specifically with something like going to the past like far past. That would probably require a different Sonic design, which isn't bad by all means, but it is kind of jarring to make that change. The only benefit i see with them being separate characters is an excuse to make sonic like Shadow, Silver, Blaze and whoever else have a classic design. Which would be cool but even though a reboot like this could work very well, again i feel it would be too jarring of a change. And the amount of people that would get riled up i think would outnumber the people who don't. At least in specific areas, i believe a lot of this reboot could work though but even just speaking through bias i do think keeping them the same character would make sense regardless. But i think a better way to make the reboot would be instead of having them be different characters they should introduce characters like Mighty and Ray to the modern part of the timeline, put Blaze and Marine in the same dimension and keep them as just characters from the future. Hell i'd argue Silver would make more sense to be in another dimension for whatever reason than Blaze does, or maybe if you want to keep the soul emeralds just say the emeralds evolved over time and that's why they look that way in the future or something. Just idea's but i still like yours.
Sonic Boom was the closest we got to what you were asking which is probably why I feel senses of remorse thinking of it, because if you didn't like Boom, Boom was its own thing, they never tried to put Sticks into Sonic Mania or anything like that (Well minus a mention in Frontiers I guess lol)
That and all those weird spinoff games like Sonic Dash and Runners that were just their own little side games free to exist as they were
So what I'm saying here I 100% agree on the idea there only being one sonic is just silly and I quite don't like it, you made a good vid!
I personally love the idea of Classic Sonic evolving to where it's a 2D Metroidvania style game, where you can explore environments with effective usage of momentum and freedom of movement. Funny thing about that is Shattered Crystal and Fire and Ice were the closest to that idea of a 2D Metroidvania style Sonic game. I had a lot of fun with those games despite their flaws. Then for modern Sonic, I definitely want Sonic Team to steer that part of the video game franchise towards RPG and open world gameplay, which Frontiers came pretty close towards. After seeing how much the Japanese audience loved Frontiers and how much that game sold over there in Japan, RPG and open world is clearly the way to go for the franchise in order to make Sonic more popular and accessible across audiences throughout the world. After Shadow Generations, I just think that the series needs to actually evolve for a change and completely do away with the speed-racing style of gameplay.
For the most part I agree with some of these ideas -
One thing that has to be said in terms of different gameplay is to make sure this doesn't become a case seen in Rockman/Mega Man franchise where (at least from what I've heard) there is an issue of overabundance. That doesn't mean each new games HAS to have something new to justify its release or that it can't have that many titles in general for that kind of gameplay, but there has to be a balance of sort
For a racing game, this may be overzealous, but I think having the gameplay and features from Drift 1/2, R, Riders/Free/Zero Gravity, TSR, CrossWorlds, and any I missed can be implemented as a new game where you can race people with a vehicle, hoverboard, on foot, teams etc so it's claim to fame are the various forms of racing and the benefit/deficit each have
For your idea on rebooting, it might be best to say they are new rebooted continuities (I know that this already can be confusing because of the different media and their own continuities do their stuff with or without being related to the canon of the games), that way it can be separate but doesn't interfere with the previous continuities everyone knows or is aware of. Arguably, the distinction between what we refer to as Classic and Modern (and even Boom) could be handled by having them be in separate continuities where specific things about the characters, worlds, and general stuff are similar but these continuities are kept separate and appeal to their audiences in general of the brand and specific for its own stuff
I do agree with keeping stuff in their own continuities so it doesn't mess with canon cause I know that already is hot debate. Though I wouldn't mind seeing other media for their own continuities, it must be clear that it's in that continuity so there is no confusion in that case. Similar case with TMNT where different iterations of the series have their own appeal from the 1984 comics and later comics, to the animated shows, live action and tokusatsu, films, anime-manga, games, and other media or like Megami Tensei and Persona having their own appeal
Hot take, but I am also fine with characters being in game or series exclusive and we don't always need to keep revolving everything around every single character in the series. Like with the Babylon Rogues being seen mainly in the Riders series or we have Emerl in the Battle. Each continuity has their own specific characters and common characters, this is okay with me. Just have it be that they are in the world but are just doing their own thing, if we see them and they are a part of something, then they can be in for as long as necessary, and then that's all for them for that story until the next time we see them. The different continuities can handle them different too.
(Semi-related, but I do like what they did with the Master Emerald being more compact with the Paramount series cause arguably, the Master Emerald being big can cause its own problems regarding Knuckles and whether or not people want to keep him on Angel Island or do stuff on his own or with others, that way he could technically do both or can reasonably do one at a time somehow)
With spin-offs, it depends cause but I don't know the best answer for this one but yeah
I largely agree with your takes and I do fully agree with the idea of having essentially a reboot of the series that you could build upon the classic and modern (or mega and millennium takes on Sonic) versions alongside other spin-offs with the blue hedgehog. Personally I'm working on a fanfiction writing project that aims draw upon mainly the classic era (specifically the Japanese game stories and lore) but maybe have some select elements from the post Sonic Adventure era but by largely it's own thing overall with original villains and elements drawn largely from outside the franchise as well as from within it. As you said about the Batman: Arkham games and the various versions TMNT, I'm hoping to try and craft a version of Sonic that I'm fully interested in exploring and make it my own rather than just largely rehash what has already been done in past 33 odd years. But yeah shameless shilling aside, you make some great points as I think Sonic is at this point truly malleable and diverse as a character to do a lot with. Good luck with your future content and have a happy new year.
Actually half of the fandom will see this know your right in a way and they would still disagree
So this might be pariah's last controversial sonic video. a perfect way to exit this franchise 😄
I'm already seeing people posting the video on Reddit request for it to be attacked lol.
I love this fandom.
@@criticalbuddy524Lol that's so pathetic.
If I had some power over the series, I'd want a LOT of my ideas realized. Redesign Rouge to feature her SA2 Upgrades, make the Special Stage canon, give Tails a pair of attack drones like the Orbitars in Kid Icarus Uprising and make him definitively orange, that sort of thing.
But above all else, there's two game ideas I REALLY want realized. Maybe they could be the same game. I dunno.
1: a game celebrating all the worldbuilding in the Sonic franchise. The stages would be framed as the definitive article for whatever they're representing. For example; Hidden World for the Lost Hex, Collision Chaos or Dubious Depths for Little Planet, and a chemical-less Chemical Plant(so... Scrap Brain but more colorful, like Press Factory Act 1) for the Eggman Empire(with the enemies mainly belonging to the Egg Pawn family)
2: not necessarily Sonic Adventure 3, but I definitely see some parallels that might make Sega want to name it as such. Anyway, the game would be kinda like an attempt at a Days of Future Past for Sonic, but instead of something world shaking happening like everyone dying, it's more of a ambiguous ending so the adventures can still continue, how the hell are the writers gonna top themselves after this, type of emulated series finale.
There'd be 6 playable characters.
1: Sonic. Plays like if Sonic had access to both Spin Dash AND Boost. Boosting is basically weaponizing a Sonic Boom, so... No idea how they'd make both fun to use without making either redundant though.
2: Amy. She'd play like a hybrid between her Adventure and Frontiers gameplay with a healthier balance between hammer and cards.
3: Tails. Adventure 1 gameplay, minus the racing, but with the addition of a pair of attack drones hovering behind his shoulders, emulating mech/gamma gameplay.
4: Knuckles. Exploration Beat-em-up, though not necessarily treasure hunting.
5: Rouge. Honestly don't know how she'd play differently from Knuckles, but she'd be the only one of the playable roster to be able to use grind rails, cause debut game Kirby Star Allies edition go burr
6: Tangle. There's all sorts of examples for her, but she'd also have the exclusive gameplay ability to use Color Powers, making her a catch-all representative of her and Whisper's team(not entirely sure the Neo Diamond Cutters are gonna be around for much longer).
The main antagonist is Eggman and this time there's no betrayal in the final hour. This time Eggman's Final Boss Mech IS the god-like threat that requires a transformation to fight.
I think classic Sonic should be more like how Japanese classic Sonic was thought in the 90s
You know what? I actually had an idea similar to yours where I’d reboot the Sonic franchise but I’d fill in the audience with a Sonic X styled anime where it’ll basically recap the past and we can make retcons and whatever and basically use that as a lore bible in a way plus given that it’d roughly follow the games’ timeline, it’ll provide seasons worth of content for a long form anime with multiple arcs and you can even clean some stuff up by combining certain stories where necessary and then have big budget anime movies for big event stories similar to Demon Slayer.
I’d still keep Classic Sonic’s design as the younger version of Sonic in this anime. I think it just works well.
Before even watching the video, i'll say i'd kill for a Unleashed PC release.
This is still pretty interesting, some different iterations as long as they work well. I felt the same way about my own characters.
I like a lot of your ideas, like the Knuckles metroidvania, riders game, bringing back and improving the adventure formula, sounds awesome, but overall I'd be a little more conservative about some things, like instead of fully rebooting the series and splitting classic and modern Sonic, I personally would make a Classic game where there's some kind of split in the timeline, maybe like how many games have a good and a bad ending, but they would just culminate in alternative timelines where in one of them all the modern games would have happened as normal, but the other timeline would be completely fresh and designed so that future classic games can have stories that can change the status quo without touching modern games. Rebooting is something that could (and should) be done eventually, but I wouldn't hurry about it, I'd want to see some character arcs reach their conclusions first and then do a reboot in a way similar to what you described it. The reboot probably wouldn't need to affect the alternative classic timeline, since that timeline is already pretty fresh, it doesn't have as many games under its wing, neither does it have a lot of contradicting elements in their stories
His next video is gonna be: "How I became the head of Sonic Team"
espio is pretty high up, his gameplay style of running on walls and ceilings was cool in knuckles chaotix, turning invisible to go through laser gates in heroes and swinging with his rope dart in generations could be a neat idea, plus throwing kunai/stars like shadows spears could be implemented.
28:40
I can live with that let's go with the timeline split That was supposed to happen after the events of Sonic Generations
2d sonic metroidvania could be cool.
one thing I liked in theory about frontiers is that it allowed for linear stages to be bitesized which made replayability really fun and intresting and it'd be cool to have that applied to classic sonic
like unlocking a crap ton of smaller quick levels as rewards for exploring the open metroidvania world
maybe it could be like, sonic is stuck in some sort of dimension and knuckles explores the real world finding ways to unlock the next area of the dimension to help sonic escape, idk
Gotta be real, metroidvania knuckles game sounds sick as heck
Happy Holidays folks