I enjoyed The Acolyte, so I was banned from ever talking about Star Wars on the channel. Hope you guys enjoyed Sam and Connor’s discussion about the current state of Star Wars.
The big mistake was getting JJ Abrams. They needed a complete story. They could have different directors, but they needed to follow the story. I don't think Yoda ever said the Dark Side clouded his judgment. Maybe it clouded his mind or visions, but I don't think he said judgment. It's not Darth Raven. It's Darth Revan.
Agree on the story of the sequels. Yoda does say the dark side clouds his judgment. We also apologize for the egregious error of misspelling Darth Revan’s name. He is a character in Star Wars canon that deserves the upmost respect and his name spelled correctly. Our apologies to the iconic Darth Revan.
I think if you’re saying they shouldn’t have hired JJ for episode 7, I understand, but given that they did hire him, bringing in Rian Johnson was the absolute death knell for the trilogy. Not only did he ignore JJ’s plot points, he subverted them and destroyed any potential they had to be carried into the 3rd sequel. The more I learn about the trilogy, I can’t help but think RJ consciously sabotaged the entire trilogy. The Rise of Skywalker feels like a desperate and rushed attempt to clean up the damage done by TLJ. Rian Johnson has an approach to writing/filmmaking that works when he is in control of the project, but it couldn’t possibly be more inappropriate and out of place for not only a story like Star Wars, but even moreso the specific position he was placed in, the middle of a Star Wars trilogy. Hiring him, knowing what kind of movies he makes, and then telling him not to follow any pre-established plot points is such an insanely bad decision that it seems more like malice than incompetence. Obviously it was incompetence, but it was so bad that Kathleen Kennedy should not have retained leadership after that.
@TEFFTPATTERN agree mostly. We do think it is more cowardly to not just improve on what worked in the last Jedi and ditch what didn’t than to take all of your story advice from Reddit in The Rise of Skywalker. While also hiring the guy who wrote Batman v. Superman to conclude as 9 movie saga. The Rise of Skywalker is perhaps the most cowardly movie ever made because it is concerned with trying to piss off the least amount of people as possible. Rian Johnson was a huge Star Wars fan so saying he intentionally sabotaged the trilogy is a bit of a stretch.
I feel like you're misunderstanding the term Mary Sue. A Mary Sue isn't just an overpowered or overly skilled character. By that logic, every character in fiction would be a Mary Sue. There's more to it than that.
What do you interpret it meaning? Regardless of what you consider to be a “Mary Sue” I think we can all agree that it’s the least of the sequel trilogy’s problems.
The term for Mary Sue is defined as, “a fictional character who is considered to be too perfect and unrealistic, and is often associated with negative connotations”. Is there more to it with how you interpret it? Sam did say that every character in Star Wars is a “Mary Sue”.
@@MediaMadmenProductions Mary Sues also often lack character flaws and other such nuances that would actually make them interesting. As a form of comparison, Anakin was a very gifted Jedi who picked up on skills rather quickly. He was also a very troubled and unstable individual who constantly struggled with his inner demons until they finally consumed him. It also took him 10 years to get to where we see him in attack of the clones. It took Luke roughly just under half the time to get to where he was in return of the Jedi, but it still took time. Rey surpasses both of these characters in their prime in less than a week with exactly zero training. The only time we do see her being actually trained by someone is Leia three movies in, after she's already demonstrated that she doesn't need it. Say what you want about Anakin and Luke but their skills and abilities have some amount of logic applied to them, Rey's don't. A Mary Sue does not strictly have to be overtly strong and/or skilled, just overtly perfect even by the standards established in the setting. Here's another example. Compare Luke's journey to Rey's. Luke constantly makes mistakes over the course of his journey, and often struggles with certain things. He also has to mature over time, going from a stupid kid who longs for a life of adventure to a wise and experienced Jedi Knight. It's a core part of his character that he tries and fails but never gives up. Rey rarely faces any personal adversity and doesn't really go through any personal growth. She almost never makes mistakes and the ones she does make conveniently don't really matter in the long run. Remember the last time Luke made a mistake? He went into cloud City guns blazing and he lost his duel, he lost his hand, and he learned in the most traumatic way possible that Darth Vader was his father. Rey recklessly went in to try and turn kylo Ren back to the light side of the force, despite the fact that snoke was far stronger than her and she had no backup in case things got dicey. She walked away with no real physical injuries and even though she had an emotional scene that brought her to tears, immediately the next time we see her it's like it never happened. The closest thing to a personal issue or flaw she seems to have is that she doesn't know who her parents are, but it almost never comes up and doesn't really seem to affect her at all outside of the fact that she just wants to know. With all that being said, I do agree that is the least of the sequel trilogy's problems. I will never forgive them for what they did to Luke. I don't care what anyone says, there are better ways they could have incorporated his character that would have been more respectful. I also wish Finn and Poe got more screen time because I actually liked those guys. And maybe giving them more screen time with Rey could have improved her character because I really wanted to like her too.
Im sorry but didnt we want studio executives to reign in Lucas Now they have control and you want it back to the creatives? I for one think the franchise is in perfect hands. No different than you guys really. People stuck in 1977
To each their own. As Sam said, a balance of Lucas IDEAS and creatives who are willing to tell him when his ideas are great and when they suck. There has to be some creative back and forth. Studio executives usually lack creativity and are only concerned with making a profit and making sure through market research they don’t offend anyone. However, we’re glad you are able to enjoy current Star Wars!
I enjoyed The Acolyte, so I was banned from ever talking about Star Wars on the channel. Hope you guys enjoyed Sam and Connor’s discussion about the current state of Star Wars.
I was gonna write something clever back but I don’t know how top that comment. William takes the high ground.
The big mistake was getting JJ Abrams. They needed a complete story. They could have different directors, but they needed to follow the story.
I don't think Yoda ever said the Dark Side clouded his judgment. Maybe it clouded his mind or visions, but I don't think he said judgment.
It's not Darth Raven. It's Darth Revan.
Agree on the story of the sequels. Yoda does say the dark side clouds his judgment. We also apologize for the egregious error of misspelling Darth Revan’s name. He is a character in Star Wars canon that deserves the upmost respect and his name spelled correctly. Our apologies to the iconic Darth Revan.
I think if you’re saying they shouldn’t have hired JJ for episode 7, I understand, but given that they did hire him, bringing in Rian Johnson was the absolute death knell for the trilogy. Not only did he ignore JJ’s plot points, he subverted them and destroyed any potential they had to be carried into the 3rd sequel. The more I learn about the trilogy, I can’t help but think RJ consciously sabotaged the entire trilogy. The Rise of Skywalker feels like a desperate and rushed attempt to clean up the damage done by TLJ. Rian Johnson has an approach to writing/filmmaking that works when he is in control of the project, but it couldn’t possibly be more inappropriate and out of place for not only a story like Star Wars, but even moreso the specific position he was placed in, the middle of a Star Wars trilogy. Hiring him, knowing what kind of movies he makes, and then telling him not to follow any pre-established plot points is such an insanely bad decision that it seems more like malice than incompetence. Obviously it was incompetence, but it was so bad that Kathleen Kennedy should not have retained leadership after that.
@TEFFTPATTERN agree mostly. We do think it is more cowardly to not just improve on what worked in the last Jedi and ditch what didn’t than to take all of your story advice from Reddit in The Rise of Skywalker. While also hiring the guy who wrote Batman v. Superman to conclude as 9 movie saga. The Rise of Skywalker is perhaps the most cowardly movie ever made because it is concerned with trying to piss off the least amount of people as possible. Rian Johnson was a huge Star Wars fan so saying he intentionally sabotaged the trilogy is a bit of a stretch.
I feel like you're misunderstanding the term Mary Sue. A Mary Sue isn't just an overpowered or overly skilled character. By that logic, every character in fiction would be a Mary Sue. There's more to it than that.
What do you interpret it meaning? Regardless of what you consider to be a “Mary Sue” I think we can all agree that it’s the least of the sequel trilogy’s problems.
The term for Mary Sue is defined as, “a fictional character who is considered to be too perfect and unrealistic, and is often associated with negative connotations”. Is there more to it with how you interpret it? Sam did say that every character in Star Wars is a “Mary Sue”.
@@MediaMadmenProductions Mary Sues also often lack character flaws and other such nuances that would actually make them interesting. As a form of comparison, Anakin was a very gifted Jedi who picked up on skills rather quickly. He was also a very troubled and unstable individual who constantly struggled with his inner demons until they finally consumed him. It also took him 10 years to get to where we see him in attack of the clones. It took Luke roughly just under half the time to get to where he was in return of the Jedi, but it still took time. Rey surpasses both of these characters in their prime in less than a week with exactly zero training. The only time we do see her being actually trained by someone is Leia three movies in, after she's already demonstrated that she doesn't need it.
Say what you want about Anakin and Luke but their skills and abilities have some amount of logic applied to them, Rey's don't. A Mary Sue does not strictly have to be overtly strong and/or skilled, just overtly perfect even by the standards established in the setting.
Here's another example. Compare Luke's journey to Rey's. Luke constantly makes mistakes over the course of his journey, and often struggles with certain things. He also has to mature over time, going from a stupid kid who longs for a life of adventure to a wise and experienced Jedi Knight. It's a core part of his character that he tries and fails but never gives up. Rey rarely faces any personal adversity and doesn't really go through any personal growth. She almost never makes mistakes and the ones she does make conveniently don't really matter in the long run. Remember the last time Luke made a mistake? He went into cloud City guns blazing and he lost his duel, he lost his hand, and he learned in the most traumatic way possible that Darth Vader was his father. Rey recklessly went in to try and turn kylo Ren back to the light side of the force, despite the fact that snoke was far stronger than her and she had no backup in case things got dicey. She walked away with no real physical injuries and even though she had an emotional scene that brought her to tears, immediately the next time we see her it's like it never happened. The closest thing to a personal issue or flaw she seems to have is that she doesn't know who her parents are, but it almost never comes up and doesn't really seem to affect her at all outside of the fact that she just wants to know.
With all that being said, I do agree that is the least of the sequel trilogy's problems. I will never forgive them for what they did to Luke. I don't care what anyone says, there are better ways they could have incorporated his character that would have been more respectful. I also wish Finn and Poe got more screen time because I actually liked those guys. And maybe giving them more screen time with Rey could have improved her character because I really wanted to like her too.
@superpaytonmars8852 we appreciate your perspective and engagement! Love the pov!
@@MediaMadmenProductions I respect your maturity. 😁
I think the star-wars merchandise suggests you might still like star-wars 🤔
We love old Star Wars. Refer to description for as to why our enthusiasm for SW has soured.
Im sorry but didnt we want studio executives to reign in Lucas
Now they have control and you want it back to the creatives?
I for one think the franchise is in perfect hands. No different than you guys really. People stuck in 1977
To each their own. As Sam said, a balance of Lucas IDEAS and creatives who are willing to tell him when his ideas are great and when they suck. There has to be some creative back and forth.
Studio executives usually lack creativity and are only concerned with making a profit and making sure through market research they don’t offend anyone.
However, we’re glad you are able to enjoy current Star Wars!
Stop use excuse, you can have good storytelling, people still look at race, people still going to complain.