"And those who slept, the ancient ones, awoke, For their dreams had been devoured By a demon that prowled the Fade As a wolf hunts a herd of deer." - Canticles of Exaltations
What you mentioned about the Evanuris and their pride is interesting, about how their pride(Solas) was their downfall. It got me theorizing that, what if at one point the elves, like the dwarves, were once all connected to something in a sort of hive mind fashion. Perhaps they were connected, but like the dwarves, something caused them to develop individuality. This dawned on me after hearing Geldauran state " I will gather power apart from them". Its reaching a bit, because he may just be implying that he was apart of their group at one time, but we like to keep things interesting.
It's quite possible. Especially given that the Forgotten Ones were purposely forgotten for their terrible deeds, either the Old God forms were their revenge, or the reason they were forgotten.
Let's see how I explain this in english... What if the forgotten ones were the "good ones", the ones againts the evanuris because they went a little mad, and maybe the war between them was to dangerous and that why solas did that to both parts, or maybe he did it to protect them or a mix of both. For example, there is another video on youtube that said something like this, that the forgotten ones were slaves mages revolted against their masters. What if that red vallaslim cult that created their own religion on them are doing it everything wrong, because like the dalish, they don't know nothing about the reals ones? Don't know if you understand what I wanted to say
Yes, yes, and yes. That's something I hadn't thought about, how the cult could also get it wrong. The Forgotten Ones could have well begun as benevolent and the same way the Chantry removed elves from the Chant of Light, the Evanuris could have painted the Forgotten Ones as evil. Maybe Solas is looking for whatever made the Evanuris go mad. Maybe he is now mad too and does not realise it himself.
@@DarthShadie Indeed. I like how they treat the lore as not guaranteed to be true. We would have to hear the Evanuris' side of the story to have a clue what is going on because Solas has proven himself to be a cunning trickster who cannot completely be trusted. "The best liars dont actually lie, they just manipulate ones perception of an event to trick them." The story that tells of how Fen'Harel walked among the forgotten ones and the Evanuris, and states that he told both parties were they could find a weapon that would end the war. Perhaps he was not lying about that, and the weapon they found was what sealed both parties away and ended the war.
The impression I get from the Forgotten Ones is that they are of the same power level as the evanuris, whereas the Forbidden Ones are of a lower tier. That's how the evanuris were able to exile the Forbidden Ones, but still had trouble battling the Forgotten Ones. Here's a basic tier list I thought of... 0: The Maker 1: The old gods 2: Elgar'nan, Mythal, Falon'Din, the Titans 3: Dirthamen, Andruil, Sylaise, Anaris, Daern'thal, Geldauran 4: Ghilan'nain, June, Fen'Harel 5: Gaxkang, Xebenkek, The Formless One, Imshael 6: Various powerful mages like Vengeance Anders, Wynne, Sigrid Gulsdoten, the Barroness, Uldred, etc. 7: Various lesser spirits and demons, the spectral dragon in the Blackmarsh, or the various demons in the Broken Circle quest. I imagine the Forgotten Ones being tier 3, possibly tier 2. I would also put the Magisters Sidereal at tier 4, depending on powers. For example, Corypheus was likely tier 3, while the Architect was tier 5 or lower. I put the Hero of Ferelden at tier 4, The Champion at tier 5, and the Inquisitor at tier 4 with the anchor, and tier 5 without it. Also, the old gods might be on the same level as the top evanuris, but I would imagine their relationship to them would be like that of a wild bear to a king. A king would lose in a fight with a wild bear, but the king could defeat the bear if he called on his loyal subjects and the kingdom's resources to defeat the bear. For this reason, I think the old gods stayed away from the evanuris once they became powerful enough. And we know Mythal studied the old gods enough to learn how to handle their souls and such. But this is why I place them above the evanuris, because I think the evanuris got to where they are by learning magical secrets from the old gods. (Also, the archdemons are corrupted old gods, which means the taint weakens them and prevents them from using their full powers.) This might be how our protagonists eventually learn enough to stand against the evanuris. Maybe we'll interact with Razikale and learn new abilities and powers. I also imagine Elgar'nan being too powerful for Falon'Din to kill, but also Falon'Din being too crafty for Elgar'nan to actually hit with anything. So Falon'Din will likely be a challenge for our protags to overcome on their way to fighting Elgar'nan. But, Mythal might end up killing Falon'Din, since I think he's the one who actually delivered the final blow to her. We know Elgar'nan couldn't beat Mythal because of her soothing affect on him and his rage, so that's why Falon'Din had to be the one to do it.
@@DarthShadie Thanks. The zero tier as a concept is basically one of being ultimately powerful... IF the entity exists. So if the Maker exists in the Dragon Age universe, and I tend to think he does, then he is the ultimate being in that universe and no one can compare to his power level. So for everyone else, 1 is the highest they can go, and all the other tiers shift in comparison to 1. But if the Maker does not exist and the writers make it canon that he does not and that the universe came about through chaotic means like from the Fade or something, then it means the "zero" tier doesn't actually exist, and 1 is the top. Basically, either way BioWare goes with it, the non-Maker entities can only ever achieve tier 1, unless there's something to what the old gods were saying about the "Golden Light" and mortals can obtain it to become all-powerful. Kind of like how the complete Triforce used to be in Zelda before it was nerf'd by more recent games. Also, the concept of a zero tier is used in Black Clover, which is an anime series I watch. At the moment, various mages are training to become zero class or zero tier since that is the only power level capable of fighting against some ultimate villains who are threatening the world in that series.
“Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls. From these emerald waters doth life begin anew. Come to me, child, and I shall embrace you. In my arms lies Eternity.” Andraste 14:11
This equates to many of my theories as well. I’ve also believed the blight to be a weapon of sorts. I also believe that Arlathan, known as a floating city, became the Black City, due to the blight, which I believe the Old Gods knew was there (probably because they caused it?) and led the magisters to go there and bring the taint back, which instantly awakened them as arch demons, per the Arch Demon codex. It’s also noteworthy, that only female dragons have wings, but at least 2 Old Gods are male. Writer oversight, possession of female dragons, or shapeshifting? If not writer oversight, we can conclude that the Old Gods aren’t ordinary dragons based on that information. This suggests that the Old Gods are likely the Forgotten Ones, or some other faction of ancient elves, who either possess or shapeshift, or are spirits/demons. Also noteworthy is that there are 7 Old Gods, 7 Evanuris, 7 Forgotten Ones. Coincidence? Then there’s the recent mural of Solas and the wolf, the idol, and a circle around the idol with 7 half circles, 2 of which are bright, perhaps related to the fact that 2 Old Gods remain? Does this mean the idol is the key to the prison, or the Old God souls are the key to the idol?
Yes. One of my very first videos was about exactly those numbers leasing me to believe the Old Gods were the Evanuris. If not, then Forgotten Ones are also a possibility. The floating city, the Eternal City is indeed probably the same one as the Golden, now tainted Black City. Ooh, this could be an oversight, or perhaps something they changed later. I believe all male dragons now have wings. The ones mating in Emprise du Lion were flying overhead. 🤔
@@DarthShadie I posed the question to Patrick Weekes and David Gaider regarding only female dragons having wings. Weekes liked the tweet but didn’t respond lol. I could’ve sworn I saw a list of names of Forgotten Ones and their “portfolios”, as in god of x, god of y, etc. I can’t seem to find it anywhere though. Or maybe I was comparing the Evanuris to them? I found an old quote from Gaider written December 28, 2009. He’s very cryptic about it. He basically says much of Dalish history is incomplete or lost and acknowledges some of the theories out there (much like ours). “Could the Old Gods have been based on the elven gods? Possibly, but there’s nothing to suggest the elven gods were ever dragons, and certainly the contempt the Imperium held for elven culture makes it unlikely that they would think elven gods were worth worshipping.” Also, “One could point to the Forgotten Ones (look at the codex entry on Fen’Harel for their mention) and suggest that they had reason for vengeance, though that would probably be against Fen’Harel and their good brethren and not against the elven people themselves, no?” He says it as though he doesn’t know lol. It sounds like the answer could possibly be one we’re not quite expecting, or hasn’t been revealed yet. He also mentions that our theories could be a possibility. But it definitely sounds like he’s hinting at something. Source: web.archive.org/web/20151115110118/forum.bioware.com/topic/40364-the-chantry-the-maker-the-old-gods-questions/?bioware=1
Well, if the Old Gods kept their Elven origins hidden from Tevinter, then they would worship the them. Perhaps the Evanuris saw the elven people as lesser than them, thus influencing Tevinter's contempt towards elves. Also, a lot has changed since 2009, but it's interesting to see the devs at the same time suggest that is the case and suggest it is not, all in the same answer hehe
Hi Shadie. In one of my comments i mentioned the possibility that maybe the Forgotten ones were just propaganda and they were never existed. Isn't it weird that in Trespasser, there was no mentioning or codex abaut them? I know there is Geldauran's claim but does it actually written by Geldauran? What do u think?
That's an interesting spin for sure. A fabrication regarding the Forgotten Ones. If they are an invention, then invented by the Evanuris to hide their evil side after they went mad. The Evanuris could have BECOME the Forgotten Ones.
@@DarthShadie Interesting. Perhaps its a pandora's box type of thing. They hid their shadow selves away, and it became the "corruption" as keeper Marethari calls it. I honestly always thought that the void is outer space, or dimension similar to it. I remember Sera stating that her greatest fear was " impossible blobs of nothingness". Makes me think the void really is well....void.
@@sagearmaggedon7307 Could very well be. If the Evanuris separated themselves from their shadow selves, ti would create new beings, them but also not them. It would complicate so many things but explain so many others.
"And those who slept, the ancient ones, awoke,
For their dreams had been devoured
By a demon that prowled the Fade
As a wolf hunts a herd of deer." - Canticles of Exaltations
Love your Vallaslin (and your ears) Sylaise would be proud ! 😂♥️
Thank you, thank you.
What you mentioned about the Evanuris and their pride is interesting, about how their pride(Solas) was their downfall. It got me theorizing that, what if at one point the elves, like the dwarves, were once all connected to something in a sort of hive mind fashion. Perhaps they were connected, but like the dwarves, something caused them to develop individuality. This dawned on me after hearing Geldauran state " I will gather power apart from them". Its reaching a bit, because he may just be implying that he was apart of their group at one time, but we like to keep things interesting.
What if the Forgotten ones were the Tevinter Old Gods? Just a thought.
It's quite possible. Especially given that the Forgotten Ones were purposely forgotten for their terrible deeds, either the Old God forms were their revenge, or the reason they were forgotten.
Let's see how I explain this in english...
What if the forgotten ones were the "good ones", the ones againts the evanuris because they went a little mad, and maybe the war between them was to dangerous and that why solas did that to both parts, or maybe he did it to protect them or a mix of both.
For example, there is another video on youtube that said something like this, that the forgotten ones were slaves mages revolted against their masters.
What if that red vallaslim cult that created their own religion on them are doing it everything wrong, because like the dalish, they don't know nothing about the reals ones?
Don't know if you understand what I wanted to say
Yes, yes, and yes. That's something I hadn't thought about, how the cult could also get it wrong. The Forgotten Ones could have well begun as benevolent and the same way the Chantry removed elves from the Chant of Light, the Evanuris could have painted the Forgotten Ones as evil. Maybe Solas is looking for whatever made the Evanuris go mad. Maybe he is now mad too and does not realise it himself.
@@DarthShadie Indeed. I like how they treat the lore as not guaranteed to be true. We would have to hear the Evanuris' side of the story to have a clue what is going on because Solas has proven himself to be a cunning trickster who cannot completely be trusted. "The best liars dont actually lie, they just manipulate ones perception of an event to trick them."
The story that tells of how Fen'Harel walked among the forgotten ones and the Evanuris, and states that he told both parties were they could find a weapon that would end the war. Perhaps he was not lying about that, and the weapon they found was what sealed both parties away and ended the war.
@@sagearmaggedon7307 Hah, truth right there, weapon found. Yeah, that COULD be it. The weapon the anchors, the Veil?
The impression I get from the Forgotten Ones is that they are of the same power level as the evanuris, whereas the Forbidden Ones are of a lower tier. That's how the evanuris were able to exile the Forbidden Ones, but still had trouble battling the Forgotten Ones. Here's a basic tier list I thought of...
0: The Maker
1: The old gods
2: Elgar'nan, Mythal, Falon'Din, the Titans
3: Dirthamen, Andruil, Sylaise, Anaris, Daern'thal, Geldauran
4: Ghilan'nain, June, Fen'Harel
5: Gaxkang, Xebenkek, The Formless One, Imshael
6: Various powerful mages like Vengeance Anders, Wynne, Sigrid Gulsdoten, the Barroness, Uldred, etc.
7: Various lesser spirits and demons, the spectral dragon in the Blackmarsh, or the various demons in the Broken Circle quest.
I imagine the Forgotten Ones being tier 3, possibly tier 2. I would also put the Magisters Sidereal at tier 4, depending on powers. For example, Corypheus was likely tier 3, while the Architect was tier 5 or lower.
I put the Hero of Ferelden at tier 4, The Champion at tier 5, and the Inquisitor at tier 4 with the anchor, and tier 5 without it.
Also, the old gods might be on the same level as the top evanuris, but I would imagine their relationship to them would be like that of a wild bear to a king. A king would lose in a fight with a wild bear, but the king could defeat the bear if he called on his loyal subjects and the kingdom's resources to defeat the bear. For this reason, I think the old gods stayed away from the evanuris once they became powerful enough. And we know Mythal studied the old gods enough to learn how to handle their souls and such. But this is why I place them above the evanuris, because I think the evanuris got to where they are by learning magical secrets from the old gods. (Also, the archdemons are corrupted old gods, which means the taint weakens them and prevents them from using their full powers.)
This might be how our protagonists eventually learn enough to stand against the evanuris. Maybe we'll interact with Razikale and learn new abilities and powers.
I also imagine Elgar'nan being too powerful for Falon'Din to kill, but also Falon'Din being too crafty for Elgar'nan to actually hit with anything. So Falon'Din will likely be a challenge for our protags to overcome on their way to fighting Elgar'nan. But, Mythal might end up killing Falon'Din, since I think he's the one who actually delivered the final blow to her. We know Elgar'nan couldn't beat Mythal because of her soothing affect on him and his rage, so that's why Falon'Din had to be the one to do it.
Interesting tier system. I tend to agree. I'm curious as to why you place the Maker at 0 and jot with him at 1.
@@DarthShadie Thanks. The zero tier as a concept is basically one of being ultimately powerful... IF the entity exists. So if the Maker exists in the Dragon Age universe, and I tend to think he does, then he is the ultimate being in that universe and no one can compare to his power level. So for everyone else, 1 is the highest they can go, and all the other tiers shift in comparison to 1. But if the Maker does not exist and the writers make it canon that he does not and that the universe came about through chaotic means like from the Fade or something, then it means the "zero" tier doesn't actually exist, and 1 is the top.
Basically, either way BioWare goes with it, the non-Maker entities can only ever achieve tier 1, unless there's something to what the old gods were saying about the "Golden Light" and mortals can obtain it to become all-powerful. Kind of like how the complete Triforce used to be in Zelda before it was nerf'd by more recent games.
Also, the concept of a zero tier is used in Black Clover, which is an anime series I watch. At the moment, various mages are training to become zero class or zero tier since that is the only power level capable of fighting against some ultimate villains who are threatening the world in that series.
“Here lies the abyss, the well of all souls.
From these emerald waters doth life begin anew.
Come to me, child, and I shall embrace you.
In my arms lies Eternity.”
Andraste 14:11
This equates to many of my theories as well. I’ve also believed the blight to be a weapon of sorts. I also believe that Arlathan, known as a floating city, became the Black City, due to the blight, which I believe the Old Gods knew was there (probably because they caused it?) and led the magisters to go there and bring the taint back, which instantly awakened them as arch demons, per the Arch Demon codex.
It’s also noteworthy, that only female dragons have wings, but at least 2 Old Gods are male. Writer oversight, possession of female dragons, or shapeshifting? If not writer oversight, we can conclude that the Old Gods aren’t ordinary dragons based on that information. This suggests that the Old Gods are likely the Forgotten Ones, or some other faction of ancient elves, who either possess or shapeshift, or are spirits/demons.
Also noteworthy is that there are 7 Old Gods, 7 Evanuris, 7 Forgotten Ones. Coincidence? Then there’s the recent mural of Solas and the wolf, the idol, and a circle around the idol with 7 half circles, 2 of which are bright, perhaps related to the fact that 2 Old Gods remain? Does this mean the idol is the key to the prison, or the Old God souls are the key to the idol?
Yes. One of my very first videos was about exactly those numbers leasing me to believe the Old Gods were the Evanuris. If not, then Forgotten Ones are also a possibility. The floating city, the Eternal City is indeed probably the same one as the Golden, now tainted Black City.
Ooh, this could be an oversight, or perhaps something they changed later. I believe all male dragons now have wings. The ones mating in Emprise du Lion were flying overhead. 🤔
@@DarthShadie I posed the question to Patrick Weekes and David Gaider regarding only female dragons having wings. Weekes liked the tweet but didn’t respond lol.
I could’ve sworn I saw a list of names of Forgotten Ones and their “portfolios”, as in god of x, god of y, etc. I can’t seem to find it anywhere though. Or maybe I was comparing the Evanuris to them?
I found an old quote from Gaider written December 28, 2009. He’s very cryptic about it. He basically says much of Dalish history is incomplete or lost and acknowledges some of the theories out there (much like ours). “Could the Old Gods have been based on the elven gods? Possibly, but there’s nothing to suggest the elven gods were ever dragons, and certainly the contempt the Imperium held for elven culture makes it unlikely that they would think elven gods were worth worshipping.”
Also, “One could point to the Forgotten Ones (look at the codex entry on Fen’Harel for their mention) and suggest that they had reason for vengeance, though that would probably be against Fen’Harel and their good brethren and not against the elven people themselves, no?”
He says it as though he doesn’t know lol. It sounds like the answer could possibly be one we’re not quite expecting, or hasn’t been revealed yet. He also mentions that our theories could be a possibility. But it definitely sounds like he’s hinting at something.
Source: web.archive.org/web/20151115110118/forum.bioware.com/topic/40364-the-chantry-the-maker-the-old-gods-questions/?bioware=1
Well, if the Old Gods kept their Elven origins hidden from Tevinter, then they would worship the them. Perhaps the Evanuris saw the elven people as lesser than them, thus influencing Tevinter's contempt towards elves.
Also, a lot has changed since 2009, but it's interesting to see the devs at the same time suggest that is the case and suggest it is not, all in the same answer hehe
Hi Shadie. In one of my comments i mentioned the possibility that maybe the Forgotten ones were just propaganda and they were never existed. Isn't it weird that in Trespasser, there was no mentioning or codex abaut them? I know there is Geldauran's claim but does it actually written by Geldauran? What do u think?
That's an interesting spin for sure. A fabrication regarding the Forgotten Ones. If they are an invention, then invented by the Evanuris to hide their evil side after they went mad. The Evanuris could have BECOME the Forgotten Ones.
@@DarthShadie Interesting. Perhaps its a pandora's box type of thing. They hid their shadow selves away, and it became the "corruption" as keeper Marethari calls it. I honestly always thought that the void is outer space, or dimension similar to it. I remember Sera stating that her greatest fear was " impossible blobs of nothingness". Makes me think the void really is well....void.
@@sagearmaggedon7307 Could very well be. If the Evanuris separated themselves from their shadow selves, ti would create new beings, them but also not them. It would complicate so many things but explain so many others.
Which video is the next video?
You can find all my theories in the playlist dedicated to Dragon Age Theories or Lore.
@@DarthShadie I'm looking for the one with the translation 😂
@@demthem6368 I have one translation here. ruclips.net/video/IgQq9ajmkyA/видео.html
@@demthem6368 And another here. ruclips.net/video/fvbvYG1af6s/видео.html
@@DarthShadie time stamp 8: 05 to what I'm referring to
🕯🕯🕯🦂