And more raises for management coming plus performance incentives aka pensionable bonus's, while front line workers sacrifice more of their bargain rights and perks because management takes away.
And just another BC Liberals now "BC United/BC CONS".... "privatized' profits Gov't Funded boondoggle TaxPayers PAY for just like the similarly "Privatized" Profits Highways Maintenance sytem.... BC CONS are the same BULLSH*T all over again !
Those rates were set when Gordo privatized management of the fleet. All they did was pay themselves more with worse service and bonuses on top for inconveniencing customers.. Thankfully the NDP kicked them to the curb and reduced fares. The ferries should never have been privatized.
@@thebigpicture2032 they have always been a crown corporation they are not private they are the government and that's the problem they are the government.
Maybe if the idiots in charge spent money on the fleet instead of useless advertising that wouldn't happen..... Why advertise? There is no other option other than BC ferries.
If the ads were to instruct (like public service) I have no problem with it. But what irks me is how they now sell booze on the larger ships (to people who then have to drive off them), but won't sell food anymore. It is insane.
BC ferries would have retired & scrapped this one long ago, but the sad thing is the newest large vessels (Coastal class) have been so uneliable. They have only been operating since 2008, yet all three has propulsion issues so severe they've had to go for a major engine refit. This class is old, but being such simple machinery has meant they were able to maintain it easily too. (A bit like how the Cubans keep those old 1950's cars running, LOL.) So they have been using it as a "reserve" ferry, precisely because the Coastal class ones have been out of action when they should not have been. BC Ferries was lucky that this breakdown took place after Labour Day instead of before it. As the video states, a new class of large ferries is planned, and there is a major need for them; the decision on a designer & shipyard is supposed to be made in the next several months. Then it will take years for those vessels to be buily. You can expect some controversy over whether the work should be done be BC/Canadian shipyards, or somewhere foreign. (The Coastal Class were built in Germany, but the supposed cost & time savings have been negated by how breakdown-prone they have been.) However, I hope their plan leans heavily towards reliability, because these are ferries so that is more important than luxury features. The only other major issue is making sure the new ones can navigate the narrow, busy, & snakey Active Pass to do the Tsawassen-Swartz Bay route. I know when they had to suddenly switch some vessels around last year, some could not use that route and had to take a longer route which cost them some extra time each trip.
the propultion thing made me laugh. I think it was the second day of service for one of these, winter, oitch black by dinner and IM at a window seat to blackness. At one point I get this funny feeling we are not moving, stand and press my face up against the window to block the light. I turn sitting down and metion 'we are dead in the water". Well the guy behind the guy I was talking too barked out loud "someone said we are not moving". You have no idea how fast the panic set in, everyone up and rushing to windows, confirming the unknown. Its at this point the captain feels its time to make an anouncement.
The fact that people are so clueless is disturbing the entire drive train in that ship is one year newer than the coastal class ferries are! That ship has had multiple refits to be kept up-to-date. It is not a flagship or even a mainline ferry. It is a back up ship. The media is completely full of crap. In fact going into October is the normal time for this shit to be laid up for winter, it would only be in service if one of the other fairies needs work
As you say, this ship was considered a backup; I am not sure if the engine re-build on the coastal class ships are all completed, but they probably had it planned so using this old ship as a stop-gap would be adequate for the "quiet season" after Labour day. Fate sometimes has other plans.
@@wyldhowl2821 agreed. Everybody wants their groceries in one bag...but wants that bag to weigh nothing. We've got a pretty good and sizable fleet. A great safety record. Can't please everyone, I guess.
A vessel cannot run indefinitely, as vessel obsolescence is a function of life cycle cost, and design service life. In the case of the Queen of New Westminster, her life cycle cost is approaching the value of several replacement ships, and she’s vastly exceeded her design service life. When she went into service, the population of BC was ~ 1.6 million. Today it’s 5.6 million, so in order for her to meet that demand, her maintenance and repair has to increase to a point where she becomes effectively unserviceable…which just happens to coincide with her present state. To highlight just how poorly BC Ferries has been managed, to meet present demand, and be cost effective, the Queen of New Westminster should have been taken out of service in 1988. To salt the wound further, we’d be 2/3 of the way through the service life of the ship that replaced the one that replaced the Queen of New Westminster!
The prop has already been pulled from the water. The vessel will be out of service for 6 months. The other prop and shaft will be pulled and checked also.
BC Ferries is more concerned awarding their higher ups with extreme bonuses rather than planning the replacement of the older boats. The last bunch of replacements were built elsewhere and the ship building industry in Canada is not advancing in designs or experience. The reason this failure lost that much hydraulic fluid is this type used a pitch control blade system for reversing the direction of the thrust. Washington State ferries has four different designs they use for the bigger boats and other than some updates to the onboard equipment they can use those designs to build replacements quickly. BC Ferries keeps reinventing the wheel when they start a new class and the requirements are sometimes not even practical like the Fast Cat ferries that were a total disaster from the get go. The first trip one of those Fast Cats did destroyed every dock and a lot of parked boats leaving Horseshoe Bay because nobody thought about the huge wake these put out when they were running at a higher speed. These ferries were speed limited leaving the harbors after that debacle so any time savings were never realized. Another problem with this design it could not carry large trucks so the truckers were forced to go to Tsawwassen to Sydney which caused them to drive farther. That was reversed when the Fast Cats were shutdown.
Really? There are lots of local news articles about this, and the subsequent discovery of the propeller by divers. Times Colonist, Vancouver Sun, to name a couple.
Unfortunately he new POS ferries are much more unreliable while these old beaters just keep going. A little shaky, rusty & beat up but mechanically serviceable compared to a warranty from Europe or some other country.
The Queen of New Westminster had a major refit about 30 years ago. The new engines resulted in quadrupling the ship’s HP and a new hull built around the existing hull costing $60M which made her a one of vessel. The refit took less than a year so she could service the new Tsawwassen/Duke point ferry run. You could argue at the time that was a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a 30 year old vessel but compared to the difference in time for a new build it made sense. Consider that the cost of ferrying a vehicle over approximately 26 nautical miles is a bargain compared to other similar unsubsidized ferry systems, rebuilding a new fleet every 20 or 30 years is not feasible. Others say build a bridge but the cost of maintaining a fixed link over or under the ocean would not be any cheaper (if a fixed link were even possible).
Yes these are old vessels, but vessels can be refurbished, repaired and run indefinitely. Virtually everything on and in the vessel can be replaced or renewed over time with updated systems and materials. The hulls themselves are made out of steel. Easily sourced and shaped materials. These vessels were designed and built in the first place to be taken apart and maintained. The knowledge and capabilities are out there. The just need to be taken care of. What retires ferry boats like these is not their age, but when the maintenance, regulatory environments and operational costs exceed the total cost of a new ferry. The biggest issue with maintaining the fleet is getting the funds to do so. When funds run short, maintenance gets deferred and some of the boats get tied up and parked until they are refunded or disposed of.
Maintenance is always required on Marine vessels and if done regularly can last. Having been employed with several Tug boat companies, one in particular had a boat that was 80 years old.
A vessel cannot run indefinitely, as vessel obsolescence is a function of life cycle cost, and design service life. In the case of the Queen of New Westminster, her life cycle cost is approaching the value of several replacement ships, and she’s vastly exceeded her design service life. When she went into service, the population of BC was ~ 1.6 million. Today it’s 5.6 million, so in order for her to meet that demand, her maintenance and repair has to increase to a point where she becomes effectively unserviceable…which just happens to coincide with her present state. To highlight just how poorly BC Ferries has been managed, to meet present demand, and be cost effective, the Queen of New Westminster should have been taken out of service in 1988. To salt the wound further, we’d be 2/3 of the way through the service life of the ship that replaced the one that replaced the Queen of New Westminster!
I think the engine monitors would have told them exactly when the prop broke off. When the engine revs suddenly sped up. Some map work would have located the prop within a hundred metres or so. Then the likely steel hub of the prop would be picked up with a metal detector. Even an all bronze prop could be picked up with the right equipment. I am not surprised in the least they found the prop within a couple days.
There is a great story about a local salmon derby that used to be sponsored by The Vancouver Sun newspaper, during the 1971 event the Qof NW swamped a small rental boat on the way into horseshoe bay upon being brought to horseshoe bay by the coast guard the angry boater stormed aboard the ferry and up to the bridge where he promptly decked the skipper😅
If the companies priority is truly “fleet reliability”, then company management is failing miserably. An embarrassment to the Province and the Country.
Aging Fleet???? Struggles Aging Fleet??? Struggles with With aging fleet??? These were a massive upgrade when they came on. Washington's quaint and old then (in the 60's) are still running. Scrape it, paint it, replace engines periodically and TIGHTLY SECURE THE PROPELLERS as well as propeller shaft bearings .... regularly. Proper maintenance isn't rocket science.
The hydraulic oil they use is considered safe for marine life and non toxic. It biodegrades naturally in the environment. And costs over 10x the amount of regular hydraulic oil. They converted both the ships and their loading unit rams a few years back at great expense. Oh and this same oil has half the life expectancy.
What a load of crap. This ship is not a flagship mainline ferry, it's only used during high load periods. It was due to be taken out of service in October . As for its age , it has been updated and drastically modified over the years a number of times to keep it up to date as much as possible. They even added a second car deck to increase it capacity. Her hull might be 60 years old, but the most important systems have all been upgraded. This video gets an F for poor research.
MV WallaWalla went dead in water on maiden voyage out of Anacortes and then later wiped out a dock. Then to keep it's history updated got itself stranded a couple years back.
BC and Washington state ferries are in the shape they are in because they don’t charge near what they should for fares. A couple of years ago my wife, daughter and I took a ferry from Jersey to France, about a ninety minute crossing and our walk on fare was about $150 for a walk on fair one way. The seat where cramped as was the whole ship in the walkways. Later our walk on fair from Calais to Dover was about $180 for the three of us and we managed to get a special deal with great seat in the lounge. People love to bitch about the cost to travel on the BC ferries but your taking your car on a ship for 90 minutes, try drive your car from Vancouver to hope, it take about 90 minutes and the distance is about 160 kilometers, the real cost of operating the average car for that far is over $100 dollars for that 90 minutes. Our ferries corporation has its issues but is still one of the best out there!
@@84Rabbitz why? The only people who are there against their own will are the inmates at William head. There is no need to leave the island, they have everything that the mainland has and more. A car and driver are under $100 in the summer, pretty reasonable for what you get, mail a small parcel to Calgary and it is just under $20 and takes days? As I stated earlier, if I drive my car on the highway for an hour and a half thats 150 kms and the average cost to operate a vehicle for that distance is about $100! I wish the government would give us locals a break on our fuel costs. BTW, there is another option, you can take the Seaspan ferry, it only costs$212! Kinda makes BC Ferries look like a hell of a deal!
@@wheressteve the CRA average is 70 cents for the first 5000 km and 64 cents after that. If you sit down and figure out your real cost it is a real eye opener. When you add up the monthly payment,insurance,maintenance, tires, fuel you will easily hit $1000 a month, the average driver in Canada drives 16,000 kms a year, that works out to 75 cents a km. Of course there are many variables such as the type of vehicle, driving habits,insurance and amount driven but the CRA average is just that, an average. If you drive a $120,000 Ram at 130kmh with big ass tires on it you would be shocked at your cost per km.
@@waynemanning3262 Nonsense, 160 km trip at 10L/100km is 16 liters, at two bucks a liter that's 32 bucks. A 40,000 dollar vehicle amortized over 300,000 km is 13 cents a kilometer. Assuming at the end of your use of it the vehicle has zero value, even as scrap that adds 21 bucks to the cost of the trip. We are at 53 dollars. As many vehicle loans are zero percent financed etc if you think an oil change every 3-4 months is adding 50 bucks per 160 km journey I have some swampland in Wakanda you might be interested in. Also a Ferry is MASS TRANSIT, isn't that supposed to be more economical and more environmental?
The ferries here mainly operate in shallow water so, I'm not surprised they could find and recover the prop. I mean, you'd know your position when you lost propulsion and I'm sure the noise was noticeable, too.
Yup it's classic if it's rusty, paint over it. Structurally, I really don't know about their RORO fleet. These have been great ships but, man they're old. There are big politics historically around the replacement of the fleet and that makes government gun-shy here.
@@calvinnickel9995 If you had have been with me there in the late 80' s to late 90's at the Barefoot Waterski Schools in Palm Beach you would Know what I am talking about . Still do it up here in the great Bear North if you want to try it some time ?
The hydraulic oil is Panolin Synth, its a synthetic oil that breaks down into propane when exposed to sunlight and moisture. Its very expensive, but its a very good product. DFO doesn't even require it to be cleaned up when spilt into an active salmon spawning stream. Yes, the boats are getting old, but there's only so much money to go around (and politically there is pressure to keep ferry rates low), the workforce on the ferries are unionized, and political cycles are shorter than ferry build times (so no payback for the govt stepping in with more taxpayer money).
The Queen class ferries are as old as I am. Insane that they still ply these waters. It's not so much the age but the amount of trips and use they've experienced. And they use a lot of fuel. The Spirit class was a much better one as far as passenger comfort and space. But even these are getting worn out. We used to joke that BC Ferries outnumbers the Canadian Navy. But the reliability is an issue. They need a new, bigger, more modern fleet to sustain their mandate. Electric, gas, paddles, angels from hell, whatever works to make the traffic flow because this is part of a highway system, not a cruise ship adventure.
Remember when they were building new ferries and shipyards and then partway thru the new Govt scrapped it all and sold off the assets. Now 25 years later, still no ferries and no more ship building facilities. That's living in an NDP world. 😢
@@jeepstuff4004 The funny thing is that when the newer ferries that were built in Germany, Romania and Poland break down, the older BC built ferries are used to replace them. LOL
What's really sad is the NDP wasted $500 Million on those three fast cat ferries. Remember those, the ferries that got sold for pennies on the dollar, after barely any use? If they had used that money to build new ferries (real ferries, not fast cats) in the 1990s, poor old BC Ferries would in much better shape now.
Usually passenger vessels have to pull their tail shafts every so many years and check for cracks and wear. If there was a crack, it was there a long time. They don't develop a crack and quickly break. And before it broke there should have been increasing vibration. I don't think BC Ferries is telling the whole story.
Cost to build the Queen of New Westminister? $ 3.6 million dollars. Cost to replace , well let's go with$360 million . That means that 1962 dollar is now worth 1 cent . That's a 99% loss of buying power.
BC Ferries once more proves the mess is at the top..The crews who work these vessels do all they can...Yet, year after year, they fail to be reliable, have enough staff, or back up plans when the poop hits..the proverbial propeller...This...say again...THIS is one, if not the biggest ferry fleet in the world...And look what it has become : Ferries made over seas, all with reliability concerns, costs skyrocketing, engine issues, staff nightmares, delays, cancellations, and prices that are higher each year. They managed to survive this summer...well so they say ....Like there other elephant of BC..Translink, whose never ending need for money is shocking, as their fares and service are held like a noose round the necks of passengers..If they don't get more funding...yup...they will cut service...WHO is allowing these 2 systems to keep proving unacceptable service etc is allowable..certainly not the tax players.
Do the math, the OIL lost in gallons is aprox 2x45 Gallon Barrels which was most likely contained with a reasonable amount of time(sigh)... Most MODERN pleasure boats will LOOSE about -/+ Liter a day into the bilge... now mutiply that with the amount of pleasure boats in the area, and then compare just how much of the oil in these bilges gets PUMPED OUT daily? Did you do the math? Who's the bigger poluter with this in mind.. BC Ferries.. or the General Boating Public?
The replacement schedule for the Ferry service was dealt a serious blow years back when the NDP Government decided to gamble all our money on aluminum fast catamarans, which turned out to be a complete fiasco and eventually sold off for pennies on the dollar. How do you recover from that, the money for three ferries thrown away.
@bestoflincolnmotorcompany The subject here is a ferry that is currently at the 60 year mark in its service life. There is a gaping hole in our current fleet where there might be 3 ferries that as you pointed out, would only be 25 years into their service life. We collectively paid for 3 ferries and got nothing in return, the money is gone.
I don't understand why ferry operators around the world keep operating ships which are well past their design life. They wait until the unreliability becomes chronic before they start to even think about replacements. You can only refurbish them a limited amount of time and the equipment is so outdated that new parts become unobtainable and they start having to 'make a plan' We are seeing the same thing in Scotland and New Zealand.
There isn't enough money in operating ferries on regular scheduled routes to cover fleet renewals. That's why just about all governments globally privatised these services. Now they will have to stump up for new ferries or find a sucker to bid for the contract.
@@TyphoonVstrom it's bad business practice consume your capital equipment without making provision for it's eventual replacement. Not doing so is dishonest.
Sadly, I must 4:54 agree no matter what political stripe. WAC Bennett must be spinning in his grave. I wish a tri-partisan committee would be struck for a long-term plan.
Leaked oil? Ha! B.C. ferry's could spill an entire Valdez worth of oil onto the coast with total immunity! What about all that yellow plastic B.C. ferry's dumped into the ocean just a few years ago? (that's still washing up all over the beaches btw)
No offence to the creator. The reporting is misleading due the upcoming provincial election and media hyperbole. Q of New West is not a true Spaulding Class (Coho, Sidney & Tsawwassen). Nor is she a true V Class vessel (the 7 sisters) She is a refinement of V Class design thru several major refits (Q's New West, Burnaby & Nanaimo) As far as been 60 years old its not relivent. She had major refit's around 1990, Expo86 and in 2008 for 2010 Oylmpics. Her power plant is modern. MV Coho is the origional Spaulding design and still in operation built in 1958-59. Difference with the BC built vessels is they were designed with bow doors instead of side loading. Yes many automated systems have been installed over her lifetime. She still is a SHIP and has many manual systems and features. Crews like her! The 6 months to repair shaft is typical of BCF mismanagement. Ferries do major overhauls in the off season. Other scheduled work plus the shaft may take several months... Not unusual it just came 2 or 3 months early... The real problem with BC Ferries does not enough spare vessels. Mis-managment scrapped her sisters , the Nanaimo and Burnaby in 2021??? Both were due for major re-fit. Bottom line is BCF would rather purchase expensive ships overseas than keep what tax payer has already paid for. PS ships are sofisticated equipment and require constant maintenance and repair. Q of New West has better track record than the new vessels.
This ferry fleet is not private, it is run by the provincial government who cant seem to manage anything. I was 8 years old when this ship was built and have been on it a lot...should have been replaced years ago!
The operation of bc ferries has been contracted out to a private for profit operator for several years now. The BC government is the sole shareholder in the corporation, but bc ferries is no longer a crown corporation. This has been the case since 2003.
@@heronimousbrapson863The BC Liberals and gave them mostly free reign. The BC NDP brought it back in house and directly control all aspects of operations.
Breaking a shaft is very rare, the ship is telling you it's time to retire. I doubt they'll repair the ship if it needs a new shaft and they don't have a spare. Huge cost maching and installing a new shaft, enough to not warrant the work on such an old vessel.
It is not that rare. Shaft fatigues and cracks. Happens on sail boats quite often :)
3 месяца назад+1
That ship was completely repowered with Wartsilla diesels. and had a bulbous bow installed in the 1990s so it could specifically service the brand new (at the time) Duke point terminal
I see a plane made in 1952 fly into my airport everyday. C-GKFG.. a Convair 580 operated by KF Aerospace that moves freight for Purolator. It hasn’t lost any propellers.
@@yougoof Cars and airplanes are different than boats. They haven’t lived their lives in sea water. I’ve never been on this Ferry, but I can guarantee you that you can easily find rust spots. Rust so thick that it can be chipped off by hand. With multiple layers of paint covering the rust. For a propeller to fall off is only due to neglect. ( Government Bureaucracy) There’s No reason for a First World Country to be using a 60 year old ferry.
@@Seadog-News Cruise ships make money. Many ferry systems like BC Ferries require tax dollars to operate and for replacements which is why they run for so long.
@@MrDarcykampe You mean cruise ships are optional floating hotels, and gouge people who go on them for a profit. (Getting COVID or Norwalk is complimentary.) Ferries are not optional BC, they are like part of the highway system.
Maybe building a bridge to Vancouver Island isn't such a ridiculous idea after all. Keep the smaller islands with ferry service. If the East Coast can have a 14-kilometer long bridge, we should certainly be able to build one on the West Coast.
All those ticket sales, they can’t believe their luck of free money, all that is required is another loan for new boats, oh wait, that was the promise of why bc ferries exist, to have a partner relationship from a lazy government of stranded assets without apprentices.
@@jusportel odd, since I have been on them all my life and they do not have to turn to have the bow forward to make the passage. they have a bridge at either end of the upper deck. they have props at either end. everything about their operation says they were.
The highest paid and most expensive management of any ferry company in the world.
And more raises for management coming plus performance incentives aka pensionable bonus's, while front line workers sacrifice more of their bargain rights and perks because management takes away.
And just another BC Liberals now "BC United/BC CONS".... "privatized' profits Gov't Funded boondoggle TaxPayers PAY for just like the similarly "Privatized" Profits Highways Maintenance sytem....
BC CONS are the same BULLSH*T all over again !
Those rates were set when Gordo privatized management of the fleet. All they did was pay themselves more with worse service and bonuses on top for inconveniencing customers.. Thankfully the NDP kicked them to the curb and reduced fares. The ferries should never have been privatized.
@@thebigpicture2032 they have always been a crown corporation they are not private they are the government and that's the problem they are the government.
Of course - what do you expect? It's GOVERNMENT MANAGED! And the Government is SOCIALIST.
Maybe if the idiots in charge spent money on the fleet instead of useless advertising that wouldn't happen..... Why advertise? There is no other option other than BC ferries.
For tourists that aren’t aware
If the ads were to instruct (like public service) I have no problem with it. But what irks me is how they now sell booze on the larger ships (to people who then have to drive off them), but won't sell food anymore. It is insane.
BC ferries would have retired & scrapped this one long ago, but the sad thing is the newest large vessels (Coastal class) have been so uneliable. They have only been operating since 2008, yet all three has propulsion issues so severe they've had to go for a major engine refit.
This class is old, but being such simple machinery has meant they were able to maintain it easily too. (A bit like how the Cubans keep those old 1950's cars running, LOL.)
So they have been using it as a "reserve" ferry, precisely because the Coastal class ones have been out of action when they should not have been. BC Ferries was lucky that this breakdown took place after Labour Day instead of before it.
As the video states, a new class of large ferries is planned, and there is a major need for them; the decision on a designer & shipyard is supposed to be made in the next several months. Then it will take years for those vessels to be buily. You can expect some controversy over whether the work should be done be BC/Canadian shipyards, or somewhere foreign. (The Coastal Class were built in Germany, but the supposed cost & time savings have been negated by how breakdown-prone they have been.)
However, I hope their plan leans heavily towards reliability, because these are ferries so that is more important than luxury features. The only other major issue is making sure the new ones can navigate the narrow, busy, & snakey Active Pass to do the Tsawassen-Swartz Bay route. I know when they had to suddenly switch some vessels around last year, some could not use that route and had to take a longer route which cost them some extra time each trip.
They'd be more reliable if they tested out zero reservations.
the propultion thing made me laugh. I think it was the second day of service for one of these, winter, oitch black by dinner and IM at a window seat to blackness. At one point I get this funny feeling we are not moving, stand and press my face up against the window to block the light. I turn sitting down and metion 'we are dead in the water". Well the guy behind the guy I was talking too barked out loud "someone said we are not moving". You have no idea how fast the panic set in, everyone up and rushing to windows, confirming the unknown. Its at this point the captain feels its time to make an anouncement.
Anyone taking bets that they will insist on battery powered ones that cost ten times as much and don’t work?
Of course. Your “leaders” and our “leaders” (WA State) are no different.
I'd take that bet my guess is hybrid lng electric As hydro lng plant is on the fraser just a few miles away.
@@joesutherland225. The Powell River Comox run has such a hybrid system.
Don’t you remember the fast ferry debacle the ended up losing many millions of dollars!!
BEVs don't work? Citation dufus?
Locally, we've referred to this series as the "Queen of Asbestos" class...
lol, that's not good....
It was the ‘60s…
everything had asbestos.
Or the "Queen of much needed repairs". 😂
@SVOceanBird
And flame-protardant Polymascot Foamalate.
They are correctly known as the “V” Class.
The photos at 2:30 and 2:42 are mine! Thanks for featuring them.
The fact that people are so clueless is disturbing the entire drive train in that ship is one year newer than the coastal class ferries are! That ship has had multiple refits to be kept up-to-date. It is not a flagship or even a mainline ferry. It is a back up ship. The media is completely full of crap. In fact going into October is the normal time for this shit to be laid up for winter, it would only be in service if one of the other fairies needs work
As you say, this ship was considered a backup; I am not sure if the engine re-build on the coastal class ships are all completed, but they probably had it planned so using this old ship as a stop-gap would be adequate for the "quiet season" after Labour day. Fate sometimes has other plans.
@@wyldhowl2821 agreed. Everybody wants their groceries in one bag...but wants that bag to weigh nothing. We've got a pretty good and sizable fleet. A great safety record. Can't please everyone, I guess.
A vessel cannot run indefinitely, as vessel obsolescence is a function of life cycle cost, and design service life. In the case of the Queen of New Westminster, her life cycle cost is approaching the value of several replacement ships, and she’s vastly exceeded her design service life. When she went into service, the population of BC was ~ 1.6 million. Today it’s 5.6 million, so in order for her to meet that demand, her maintenance and repair has to increase to a point where she becomes effectively unserviceable…which just happens to coincide with her present state. To highlight just how poorly BC Ferries has been managed, to meet present demand, and be cost effective, the Queen of New Westminster should have been taken out of service in 1988. To salt the wound further, we’d be 2/3 of the way through the service life of the ship that replaced the one that replaced the Queen of New Westminster!
The prop has already been pulled from the water. The vessel will be out of service for 6 months. The other prop and shaft will be pulled and checked also.
9 months now
BC Ferries is more concerned awarding their higher ups with extreme bonuses rather than planning the replacement of the older boats. The last bunch of replacements were built elsewhere and the ship building industry in Canada is not advancing in designs or experience. The reason this failure lost that much hydraulic fluid is this type used a pitch control blade system for reversing the direction of the thrust. Washington State ferries has four different designs they use for the bigger boats and other than some updates to the onboard equipment they can use those designs to build replacements quickly. BC Ferries keeps reinventing the wheel when they start a new class and the requirements are sometimes not even practical like the Fast Cat ferries that were a total disaster from the get go. The first trip one of those Fast Cats did destroyed every dock and a lot of parked boats leaving Horseshoe Bay because nobody thought about the huge wake these put out when they were running at a higher speed. These ferries were speed limited leaving the harbors after that debacle so any time savings were never realized. Another problem with this design it could not carry large trucks so the truckers were forced to go to Tsawwassen to Sydney which caused them to drive farther. That was reversed when the Fast Cats were shutdown.
Hardly anything reported locally on this🤔
Good work SeaDog👍
Really? There are lots of local news articles about this, and the subsequent discovery of the propeller by divers. Times Colonist, Vancouver Sun, to name a couple.
@@vicoastdog Moreover, fro Vancouver Sun, the prop is already recovered. So this RUclips is late
What are you talking about it was on every channel?
Unfortunately he new POS ferries are much more unreliable while these old beaters just keep going. A little shaky, rusty & beat up but mechanically serviceable compared to a warranty from Europe or some other country.
The Queen of New Westminster had a major refit about 30 years ago. The new engines resulted in quadrupling the ship’s HP and a new hull built around the existing hull costing $60M which made her a one of vessel. The refit took less than a year so she could service the new Tsawwassen/Duke point ferry run. You could argue at the time that was a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a 30 year old vessel but compared to the difference in time for a new build it made sense. Consider that the cost of ferrying a vehicle over approximately 26 nautical miles is a bargain compared to other similar unsubsidized ferry systems, rebuilding a new fleet every 20 or 30 years is not feasible. Others say build a bridge but the cost of maintaining a fixed link over or under the ocean would not be any cheaper (if a fixed link were even possible).
Yes these are old vessels, but vessels can be refurbished, repaired and run indefinitely. Virtually everything on and in the vessel can be replaced or renewed over time with updated systems and materials. The hulls themselves are made out of steel. Easily sourced and shaped materials. These vessels were designed and built in the first place to be taken apart and maintained. The knowledge and capabilities are out there. The just need to be taken care of.
What retires ferry boats like these is not their age, but when the maintenance, regulatory environments and operational costs exceed the total cost of a new ferry. The biggest issue with maintaining the fleet is getting the funds to do so. When funds run short, maintenance gets deferred and some of the boats get tied up and parked until they are refunded or disposed of.
Maintenance is always required on Marine vessels and if done regularly can last. Having been employed with several Tug boat companies, one in particular had a boat that was 80 years old.
A vessel cannot run indefinitely, as vessel obsolescence is a function of life cycle cost, and design service life. In the case of the Queen of New Westminster, her life cycle cost is approaching the value of several replacement ships, and she’s vastly exceeded her design service life. When she went into service, the population of BC was ~ 1.6 million. Today it’s 5.6 million, so in order for her to meet that demand, her maintenance and repair has to increase to a point where she becomes effectively unserviceable…which just happens to coincide with her present state. To highlight just how poorly BC Ferries has been managed, to meet present demand, and be cost effective, the Queen of New Westminster should have been taken out of service in 1988. To salt the wound further, we’d be 2/3 of the way through the service life of the ship that replaced the one that replaced the Queen of New Westminster!
I think the engine monitors would have told them exactly when the prop broke off. When the engine revs suddenly sped up. Some map work would have located the prop within a hundred metres or so. Then the likely steel hub of the prop would be picked up with a metal detector. Even an all bronze prop could be picked up with the right equipment. I am not surprised in the least they found the prop within a couple days.
The new ferries loose props too!
There is a great story about a local salmon derby that used to be sponsored by The Vancouver Sun newspaper, during the 1971 event the Qof NW swamped a small rental boat on the way into horseshoe bay upon being brought to horseshoe bay by the coast guard the angry boater stormed aboard the ferry and up to the bridge where he promptly decked the skipper😅
If the companies priority is truly “fleet reliability”, then company management is failing miserably. An embarrassment to the Province and the Country.
Aging Fleet???? Struggles
Aging Fleet??? Struggles with With aging fleet??? These were a massive upgrade when they came on. Washington's quaint and old then (in the 60's) are still running. Scrape it, paint it, replace engines periodically and TIGHTLY SECURE THE PROPELLERS as well as propeller shaft bearings .... regularly.
Proper maintenance isn't rocket science.
The hydraulic oil they use is considered safe for marine life and non toxic. It biodegrades naturally in the environment. And costs over 10x the amount of regular hydraulic oil. They converted both the ships and their loading unit rams a few years back at great expense. Oh and this same oil has half the life expectancy.
What a load of crap. This ship is not a flagship mainline ferry, it's only used during high load periods. It was due to be taken out of service in October . As for its age , it has been updated and drastically modified over the years a number of times to keep it up to date as much as possible. They even added a second car deck to increase it capacity. Her hull might be 60 years old, but the most important systems have all been upgraded. This video gets an F for poor research.
Thank you for featuring my photo 🙏
MV WallaWalla went dead in water on maiden voyage out of Anacortes and then later wiped out a dock. Then to keep it's history updated got itself stranded a couple years back.
BC and Washington state ferries are in the shape they are in because they don’t charge near what they should for fares. A couple of years ago my wife, daughter and I took a ferry from Jersey to France, about a ninety minute crossing and our walk on fare was about $150 for a walk on fair one way. The seat where cramped as was the whole ship in the walkways. Later our walk on fair from Calais to Dover was about $180 for the three of us and we managed to get a special deal with great seat in the lounge. People love to bitch about the cost to travel on the BC ferries but your taking your car on a ship for 90 minutes, try drive your car from Vancouver to hope, it take about 90 minutes and the distance is about 160 kilometers, the real cost of operating the average car for that far is over $100 dollars for that 90 minutes. Our ferries corporation has its issues but is still one of the best out there!
@@waynemanning3262 sure. But what do the locals pay? People that work and pay tax on the island should pay much less than a tourist.
@@84Rabbitz why? The only people who are there against their own will are the inmates at William head. There is no need to leave the island, they have everything that the mainland has and more. A car and driver are under $100 in the summer, pretty reasonable for what you get, mail a small parcel to Calgary and it is just under $20 and takes days? As I stated earlier, if I drive my car on the highway for an hour and a half thats 150 kms and the average cost to operate a vehicle for that distance is about $100! I wish the government would give us locals a break on our fuel costs. BTW, there is another option, you can take the Seaspan ferry, it only costs$212! Kinda makes BC Ferries look like a hell of a deal!
$66/hr to drive a passenger vehicle is not a true statement.
@@wheressteve the CRA average is 70 cents for the first 5000 km and 64 cents after that. If you sit down and figure out your real cost it is a real eye opener. When you add up the monthly payment,insurance,maintenance, tires, fuel you will easily hit $1000 a month, the average driver in Canada drives 16,000 kms a year, that works out to 75 cents a km. Of course there are many variables such as the type of vehicle, driving habits,insurance and amount driven but the CRA average is just that, an average. If you drive a $120,000 Ram at 130kmh with big ass tires on it you would be shocked at your cost per km.
@@waynemanning3262 Nonsense, 160 km trip at 10L/100km is 16 liters, at two bucks a liter that's 32 bucks. A 40,000 dollar vehicle amortized over 300,000 km is 13 cents a kilometer. Assuming at the end of your use of it the vehicle has zero value, even as scrap that adds 21 bucks to the cost of the trip. We are at 53 dollars. As many vehicle loans are zero percent financed etc if you think an oil change every 3-4 months is adding 50 bucks per 160 km journey I have some swampland in Wakanda you might be interested in.
Also a Ferry is MASS TRANSIT, isn't that supposed to be more economical and more environmental?
The ferries here mainly operate in shallow water so, I'm not surprised they could find and recover the prop. I mean, you'd know your position when you lost propulsion and I'm sure the noise was noticeable, too.
Bc ferries and washington state and bad shape due not keep up demand invest new ships.sad this happen.😮
Lack of forward thinking and planning. Lack of leadership. Clowns in control.
Just like the Democrats in Washington DC
Does some company build these here in Canada? Probably a silly question but, never know eh?
Yup it's classic if it's rusty, paint over it. Structurally, I really don't know about their RORO fleet. These have been great ships but, man they're old. There are big politics historically around the replacement of the fleet and that makes government gun-shy here.
This country is so far behind , it thinks it's in the lead .
Please by all means if you don't like it here feel free to leave
Green thumb prevents me from moving to the promised land . FLA USA . Stuck in this liberal swamp . At least for now .
You might fit in well in FLA.! Most of the hillbilly crackhead videos come out of there!
@darrelldoran509
lol.. imagine thinking Florida is the promised land.
@@calvinnickel9995 If you had have been with me there in the late 80' s to late 90's at the Barefoot Waterski Schools in Palm Beach you would Know what I am talking about . Still do it up here in the great Bear North if you want to try it some time ?
The hydraulic oil is Panolin Synth, its a synthetic oil that breaks down into propane when exposed to sunlight and moisture. Its very expensive, but its a very good product. DFO doesn't even require it to be cleaned up when spilt into an active salmon spawning stream.
Yes, the boats are getting old, but there's only so much money to go around (and politically there is pressure to keep ferry rates low), the workforce on the ferries are unionized, and political cycles are shorter than ferry build times (so no payback for the govt stepping in with more taxpayer money).
Excellent points!
90 weight gear oil better cheaper !
The Queen class ferries are as old as I am. Insane that they still ply these waters. It's not so much the age but the amount of trips and use they've experienced. And they use a lot of fuel. The Spirit class was a much better one as far as passenger comfort and space. But even these are getting worn out. We used to joke that BC Ferries outnumbers the Canadian Navy. But the reliability is an issue. They need a new, bigger, more modern fleet to sustain their mandate. Electric, gas, paddles, angels from hell, whatever works to make the traffic flow because this is part of a highway system, not a cruise ship adventure.
Remember when they were building new ferries and shipyards and then partway thru the new Govt scrapped it all and sold off the assets. Now 25 years later, still no ferries and no more ship building facilities. That's living in an NDP world. 😢
NDP didn't scrap it. What's your point? The right-wing doesn't believe in BC workers or business, that's clear.
How does a propeller fall off
Nice maintenance tell me there wasn’t a vibration before that fell off.!
And the old ones work better than the new ones.
Did they forget a cotter pin again?
Can we call bc ferries management a dumpster fire now.
There has been environmentally safe hydraulic oils since before 1999, although who knows if the ferries use it.
Ya, they use it.
What happened to those three ferries that were built in Germany?
Washington State Ferries are having the same issues, they just cancelled a sale of a couple retired ferries.
Maybe BC Ferries and Washington state ferries should build ferries with interoperability in mind to bring down service and maintenance costs?
This ferry lasted as long as it did because it was built in BC.
lol . 😂
@@jeepstuff4004 The funny thing is that when the newer ferries that were built in Germany, Romania and Poland break down, the older BC built ferries are used to replace them. LOL
That boat looks like it once had oars.Should be a quick retro fix.
If only we had two or three faster aluminum ferries...
What's really sad is the NDP wasted $500 Million on those three fast cat ferries. Remember those, the ferries that got sold for pennies on the dollar, after barely any use? If they had used that money to build new ferries (real ferries, not fast cats) in the 1990s, poor old BC Ferries would in much better shape now.
Usually passenger vessels have to pull their tail shafts every so many years and check for cracks and wear. If there was a crack, it was there a long time. They don't develop a crack and quickly break. And before it broke there should have been increasing vibration. I don't think BC Ferries is telling the whole story.
Cost to build the Queen of New Westminister? $ 3.6 million dollars.
Cost to replace , well let's go with$360 million . That means that 1962 dollar is now worth 1 cent . That's a 99% loss of buying power.
Aren’t those props made from brass? I want a lawn ornament. A brass propeller on my front lawn….
Two words. BRIDGE or TUNNEL!
BC Ferries once more proves the mess is at the top..The crews who work these vessels do all they can...Yet, year after year, they fail to be reliable, have enough staff, or back up plans when the poop hits..the proverbial propeller...This...say again...THIS is one, if not the biggest ferry fleet in the world...And look what it has become : Ferries made over seas, all with reliability concerns, costs skyrocketing, engine issues, staff nightmares, delays, cancellations, and prices that are higher each year. They managed to survive this summer...well so they say ....Like there other elephant of BC..Translink, whose never ending need for money is shocking, as their fares and service are held like a noose round the necks of passengers..If they don't get more funding...yup...they will cut service...WHO is allowing these 2 systems to keep proving unacceptable service etc is allowable..certainly not the tax players.
BC Ferries only got 500 million last year. Of course they need more money for a new ferry
It was built in 1964 , what do you want?
.. how much profits did this Queen generate in her service to the fleet...?
Do the math, the OIL lost in gallons is aprox 2x45 Gallon Barrels which was most likely contained with a reasonable amount of time(sigh)... Most MODERN pleasure boats will LOOSE about -/+ Liter a day into the bilge... now mutiply that with the amount of pleasure boats in the area, and then compare just how much of the oil in these bilges gets PUMPED OUT daily? Did you do the math? Who's the bigger poluter with this in mind.. BC Ferries.. or the General Boating Public?
Being 60 years old has nothing to do with it. This is a failure of inspections and maintenance. There is no excuse.
The replacement schedule for the Ferry service was dealt a serious blow years back when the NDP Government decided to gamble all our money on aluminum fast catamarans, which turned out to be a complete fiasco and eventually sold off for pennies on the dollar. How do you recover from that, the money for three ferries thrown away.
Dude that was 25 years ago .. LMFAO...thanks for the update Old Ned 🎉😂
You steal more from the taxpayer while dupes like the guy above laughs about it.
@bestoflincolnmotorcompany The subject here is a ferry that is currently at the 60 year mark in its service life. There is a gaping hole in our current fleet where there might be 3 ferries that as you pointed out, would only be 25 years into their service life. We collectively paid for 3 ferries and got nothing in return, the money is gone.
@@jamesblair9614 but it's hilarious...right?
The PacifiCat-class ferry? Lol, we’ve had 2 new lines of boats since then, grow up
I don't understand why ferry operators around the world keep operating ships which are well past their design life. They wait until the unreliability becomes chronic before they start to even think about replacements.
You can only refurbish them a limited amount of time and the equipment is so outdated that new parts become unobtainable and they start having to 'make a plan'
We are seeing the same thing in Scotland and New Zealand.
There isn't enough money in operating ferries on regular scheduled routes to cover fleet renewals.
That's why just about all governments globally privatised these services. Now they will have to stump up for new ferries or find a sucker to bid for the contract.
@@TyphoonVstrom it's bad business practice consume your capital equipment without making provision for it's eventual replacement.
Not doing so is dishonest.
@@gregculverwell Easier said that done, taxpayers usually do not like expenditures for the distant future
Won’t be long before it’s $250.00 round trip.
It's a vegetable oil based hydraulic fluid
Really gotta wonder where all our tax dollars go
It's a fine vessel.
BC has never been accused of planning for the future has it
Sadly, I must 4:54 agree no matter what political stripe. WAC Bennett must be spinning in his grave. I wish a tri-partisan committee would be struck for a long-term plan.
Leaked oil? Ha! B.C. ferry's could spill an entire Valdez worth of oil onto the coast with total immunity! What about all that yellow plastic B.C. ferry's dumped into the ocean just a few years ago? (that's still washing up all over the beaches btw)
They haven’t started repairing this ferry
BC Ferries has more ships than the Canadian Navy
And newer ones.
Lack of maintenance by Owner and engine staff not following maintenance program???
No offence to the creator.
The reporting is misleading due the upcoming provincial election and media hyperbole.
Q of New West is not a true Spaulding Class (Coho, Sidney & Tsawwassen).
Nor is she a true V Class vessel (the 7 sisters)
She is a refinement of V Class design thru several major refits (Q's New West, Burnaby & Nanaimo)
As far as been 60 years old its not relivent. She had major refit's around 1990, Expo86 and in 2008 for 2010 Oylmpics.
Her power plant is modern.
MV Coho is the origional Spaulding design and still in operation built in 1958-59.
Difference with the BC built vessels is they were designed with bow doors instead of side loading. Yes many automated systems have been installed over her lifetime. She still is a SHIP and has many manual systems and features. Crews like her!
The 6 months to repair shaft is typical of BCF mismanagement.
Ferries do major overhauls in the off season. Other scheduled work plus the shaft may take several months... Not unusual it just came 2 or 3 months early...
The real problem with BC Ferries does not enough spare vessels.
Mis-managment scrapped her sisters , the Nanaimo and Burnaby in 2021???
Both were due for major re-fit. Bottom line is BCF would rather purchase expensive ships overseas than keep what tax payer has already paid for.
PS ships are sofisticated equipment and require constant maintenance and repair. Q of New West has better track record than the new vessels.
This ferry fleet is not private, it is run by the provincial government who cant seem to manage anything. I was 8 years old when this ship was built and have been on it a lot...should have been replaced years ago!
The operation of bc ferries has been contracted out to a private for profit operator for several years now. The BC government is the sole shareholder in the corporation, but bc ferries is no longer a crown corporation. This has been the case since 2003.
Did you vote for fare increase in the meantime ? or extra taxes ?
@@heronimousbrapson863 Operation, what about ship ownership ?
Incorrect much like the bc rail scam bc ferries was leased by the province by the John Rustad liberals in the 90s to a private company
@@heronimousbrapson863The BC Liberals and gave them mostly free reign. The BC NDP brought it back in house and directly control all aspects of operations.
Wa has a 50 yo ferry available for a bargain
Government maintenance!
Is that the Queen of disrepair?
They have spent the profits.
Where does all the money go? Not to reinvestments!
Please dont let other countries viewthis ,im already embarassed with the relic line.
Get a downtown to downtown run that runs late enough for Canucks games
So in the meantime, DELAYS, DELAYS, DELAYS. Ridiculous.
A bridge, build a bridge lol :)
The money wasted on fast cats would be handy .
It is not a "flagship" ferry. You don't know what you're talking about.
What have you done with all the money
And the CEO will still get his bonuses. Build a bridge.
Breaking a shaft is very rare, the ship is telling you it's time to retire. I doubt they'll repair the ship if it needs a new shaft and they don't have a spare. Huge cost maching and installing a new shaft, enough to not warrant the work on such an old vessel.
It's getting repaired. It will be out of service for 6 months. The other shaft will be getting pulled and checked also.
It is not that rare. Shaft fatigues and cracks. Happens on sail boats quite often :)
That ship was completely repowered with Wartsilla diesels. and had a bulbous bow installed in the 1990s so it could specifically service the brand new (at the time) Duke point terminal
Guaranteed they were not smart enough to keep the old shaft
@stephenswistchew7720 They already recovered the shaft from the sea bed.
Is anyone driving a car built in 1964 everyday for work, everyday from new? This vessel is a tragedy waiting to happen!
Maintenance is the key with cars. Ships are another thing. Can't fix them as easily as a ship.
@@jaynorris3722 Yeah, you’re right. Are you still driving your original car from 1964, that’s had maintenance done to it?
Boats are different from cars.
I see a plane made in 1952 fly into my airport everyday.
C-GKFG.. a Convair 580 operated by KF Aerospace that moves freight for Purolator.
It hasn’t lost any propellers.
@@yougoof Cars and airplanes are different than boats. They haven’t lived their lives in sea water.
I’ve never been on this Ferry, but I can guarantee you that you can easily find rust spots. Rust so thick that it can be chipped off by hand. With multiple layers of paint covering the rust. For a propeller to fall off is only due to neglect. ( Government Bureaucracy)
There’s No reason for a First World Country to be using a 60 year old ferry.
The age of the ship has nothing to do with maintaining the drive train of the ship. Who is in charge of maintenance planning at BC Ferries?
Is 60 old for a ferry?
Seems old, most cruise ships are retired by 25 years, but ferries are a little different. They run mostly non stop year round.
I would think so
Much too old.
@@Seadog-News Cruise ships make money. Many ferry systems like BC Ferries require tax dollars to operate and for replacements which is why they run for so long.
@@MrDarcykampe You mean cruise ships are optional floating hotels, and gouge people who go on them for a profit. (Getting COVID or Norwalk is complimentary.)
Ferries are not optional BC, they are like part of the highway system.
Maybe building a bridge to Vancouver Island isn't such a ridiculous idea after all. Keep the smaller islands with ferry service. If the East Coast can have a 14-kilometer long bridge, we should certainly be able to build one on the West Coast.
I'l see your BCFerries and raise you CalMac
All those ticket sales, they can’t believe their luck of free money, all that is required is another loan for new boats, oh wait, that was the promise of why bc ferries exist, to have a partner relationship from a lazy government of stranded assets without apprentices.
Most likely they had a good idea where the prop had fallen off the ship??
I might have happened at the dock, it would not go far then.
They have already raised it from the bottom.
Retire the damn thing already.
Can we not just build a bridge. Idk if that's ignorant
Imagine losing money when ur a government funded monopoly 😂 what a joke bc ferries is
6 months its going to be out.
At least nothing happened to the all inclusive diversity flag….
60 year old vessel? It should have been decommissioned when it was half that age.
Oops.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
This class of ferry also is built to run with either end as the bow so has propellers on both ends.
No it wasn’t.
@@jusportel odd, since I have been on them all my life and they do not have to turn to have the bow forward to make the passage. they have a bridge at either end of the upper deck.
they have props at either end.
everything about their operation says they were.
@@jaquigreenlees the C class ferries are double ended. The V class are most definitely not.
for being a third world country, not bad
don't worrie billions are heading to Ukraine so this ferry problem will fix itself
3rd world problems.