Loved the presentation. I've been looking at building one of these for a few years now. It's good to see the information getting out to the general public in an understandable format.
Thanks for the effort expended in this video. Diagrams- common sense explanations and lessons learned ( barrel paint burned off BEFORE installation =D ) and great camera work ( NO VERTIGO ! ) Excellent resource guys!
@DCVU2 This depends on the size of the barrel that you are using. Fire bricks don't break up due to repeated exposure to heat; and they tend to store and release the heat better than regular bricks. The combustion chamber gets very hot! I've recommended Ianto Evans book before, and I recommend it again. Thanks for asking.
i understand the purpose of the insulation, i was commenting on double/triple insulation as possibly being more than necessary..... being a thrifty one and often using recycled materials or making me own, i always try to design for efficiency, but with the least amount of money and materials...mahalo for sharing....aloha, forest
Everything looks good for a demonstration model, but for one that you put in your house, you need to assume the inner metal part of the heat riser will burn away. I recommend a clay mud with 25%-30% sand (it's what brick is made of) with and vermiculite or pearlite so that when your inner tube burns away, your insulation doesn't pour into your burn chamber.
@DCVU2 All I can suggest is trial and error; and be safe! We used non-fire bricks that were a distance from the fire. The fire bricks will retain their shape, and release heat into the space. They are ideal for the application.
Nzinga, Joe; thanks for you comments. There should be minimal buildup of creosote - really none if it is operated correctly. I advise you to look at Ianto Evans book - mentioned in my replies below. Nzinga; I'm not sure of a group. There are zoning laws that most like prevent building this type of stove in the city. However, any construction crew could make the stove from this video or with Ianto Evans book.
+nzinga zindua That's because a lot of things that people will do aren't necessarily safe. I once had a tenant burning wood in a barrel set on top of cinder blocks in front of an open window inside a second floor apartment. It generated heat, sure. As well as lots and lots of carbon monoxide, not to mention potentially burning the house down. Being poor is not a license nor and excuse to endanger yourself or other people.
So am I correct in saying the barrel radiates heat into the living space, and the piped out exhaust supplies heat to a thermal mass (like the seat in the photo)?
@Rockinghorseshart the rocket stove will give off a little smoke into the house. It's important to realize that before installing it. If the utility area you mention is like a screen porch, then it may be appropriate to put the rocket stove there. Not a lot of smoke; just a little as the fire gets started. As for alternative designs; I'm not so sure. The main thing about the 55 gallon drum is it won't burn. Something smaller but still hardy might work for you.
@MrSafetymeeting There will be some minimal smoke that gets into the space where the feed for the rocket stove is located. I'd put that outside on the tailgate of the vehicle. As for the plan you mention, that sounds fine. I'd love to see picture or video of it when you are done. Best wishes!
More insulation could be better. It would depend on the site you are installing it in. A very cold winter & more insulation would be a boon. Warmer climate, maybe less insulation; though I would tend to put more insulation in it in either climate. It will be more efficient to use once you learn how to use it.
You can cook after a fashion. For instance, baked potatoes in foil would likely cook well. The heat will be intense, and probably uneven. You'd have to allow for some trial and error.
What chances is there of a chimney fire occurring? How do you clean out the creosote build up in a enclosed system like this where everything is built up all around it?
These rocket stoves are Great, built my first one,no regrets, works A1.but now researching on new ideas with this concept,the trick is to have little wood imput and great heat output compared to standard old wood stoves, which so much of the heat is wasted right out the flue pipe.
@Dolichocephalus just don't use any thing that is flammable. If there are any unburned bits mixed in with the ash, they likely would catch fire, as the stove reaches very high temperatures. The vermiculite is volcanic and so very heat resistant as well as being ideally suited to dispersing high heat. Ash and sand would work, and could do a very good job of it too.
@MrSafetymeeting The draw does handle most of it. There will be a little smoke that comes out from the first few twigs that are used to start each fire.
When you first light the stove, some smoke goes into the room; then when there is sufficient heat the smoke is drawn along with the hot air into the combustion chamber. The best way to deal with this is to encase the area where the fire is lit, rather like a traditional fireplace has a screen on it for the same reason; or to put the part of the stove where it is lit outside. It doesn't take long for the heat to drawn all the smoke into the combustion area.
Great question; I think it boils down to money (spent to make coal gasification happen - an expensive and inexact proposition) and profit reduction in the short term if coal power plants were so equipped.
why doesn't the smoke just go straight up? how do you get it to go sideways into the combustion chamber? seems like it would be much more likely to suck in air from the combustion chamber and blow smoke straight up into the room.
They should last a long time; just keep them dry: indoors, with a tarp or whatever. They are much more efficient than regular chimney stoves. I've recommended a book by Ianto Evans, and recommend it again. Just google rocket stove, Ianto Evans to find it. Or check at your library.
The smoke is drawn into the combustion chamber by the vacuum created by burning creosote. Please refer to Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heater for more information.
yesterday i went visiting the sun pyramid in teotihuacan mexico and it came to my mind that it is was a giant rocket stove but i dont know what it could be used for
I don't understand something on the two openings for the combustion chamber. I see the j-shape. One hole is for the fire to go up, vertical. One is for the fuel, but the fuel one you had a hole on top and not the bottom side. You have two vertical holes. I do not understand. Thanks for the video.
There ought to be very little ash build up; and all of it should be in the feed area where the twigs go into the fire. The temperatures in the burn chamber burn all particles.
We all have an ongoing interest in the environment; none of us with formal training from in a University in that regard; though most of the people there had some sort of degree or University study.
Most vermiculite has asbestos in it - according to the Illinois Department of Health. I was unaware of that. It is not the vermiculite itself that has asbestos, but rather from the mine it comes from. According to wikipedia, at this time, vermiculite for sale should have been inspected and only be for sale if it is asbestos free.
@Anvilshock Ash builds up very slowly if at all. There is almost no ash created at temperatures above 1500 degrees; and that's how hot it gets in the burn chamber.
I'm only half way through but vermiculite was mentioned 4 times and not once did the words "use extreme caution, causes cancer" come after it. Is this some magic vermiculite that you're using or is that maybe an important detail worth noting?
It is not the vermiculite itself that has asbestos, but rather from the mine it comes from. According to wikipedia, at this time, vermiculite for sale should have been inspected and only be for sale if it is asbestos free. So in other words, it's your regular garden variety vermiculite that is completely asbestos free.
Vermiculite that is sold in the store no longer has asbestos in it. The last time there was vermiculite with asbestos in it for sale was before 1980. There is more information about asbestos and vermiculite in the comments below, if you'd like to read them. Thanks for your comment.
Can you show more about the exhaust end of the rocket stove... I have tried building the small ones with cans, not with great success tho. I used kitty litter for insulation as it was on hand and FREE.. Could that been the cause of my problem.?? Seems as tho it would start to draw, but wouldn't catch up.. Like it wasn't getting and staying hot enuf. Thanks cause I'm livntolaugh :-)
+livntolaugh This is because heat does not scale. What I mean is that there is a break point whereat the heat generated by your fire is too little and your chimney too short to create an effective draft. Build it large enough and it will work.
The draft is caused by the intense heat and vacuum thereof. At first some smoke comes out the lighting chamber; but then it is funneled through the exhaust tube. Build one, or visit one to see what I mean.
isn't it a bit overkill moneywise and insulationwise to use both fire bricks and vermiculite....one could save money by using cob around the fire bricks or sand, or just clay....same with a triple insulated stovepipe...doesn't the firebrick insulate enough????...mahalo for sharing, aloha, forest
Most of the combustible material is burned off. That is the beauty of the rocket stove. Check out Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heaters for more information.
Check out the book by Ianto Evans Rocket Mass Heater for detailed information to questions like these. The principle interviewee in this video has lived through 3 severe Michigan winters without having to clean out the chimney. The Creosote is almost completely burned away in the combustion chamber before it reaches the chimney.
@dogma6792004 I'm not going to post your comment in response to the thread here. It uses swear words, and is slanderous. If you think you have something to add, you'll have to try again. Thanks.
@chrismallyon Most of the combustible material is burned off. That is the beauty of the rocket stove. Check out Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heaters for more information.
@keptyeti Most of the combustible material is burned off. That is the beauty of the rocket stove. Check out Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heaters for more information.
This guy totally missed the major part of the concept. The rocket stove is designed high enough so that the heat going out of the chimney creates a suction, drawing more and more air into the chamber as the heat builds. As more and more air gets sucked in as it heats up, a blast furnace effect is created. That is what causes the extreme heat. The insulation is important, but this example is overkill. You can build an effective rocket stove out of fire brick alone and put a grate on top of it to cook on.
This concept could be improved upon by copying some of the design principles of a solid fuel Aga - a small gravity fed fire with exhaust gasses drawn around an inner cast iron cylinder, the top of which heats up for cooking, then flowing under a second hot plate which operates at a lower temperature and simultaneously over two cast iron ovens stacked one on top of another before finally exiting and all surrounded by insulating vermiculite - super efficient thermal mass heater for cooking, space heating and even hot water with the addition of a small boiler which wraps partly around the cylinder.
@dogma6792004 calling people words that insult their intelligence is indeed slander. You may want to bear that in mind as you go forward in life. With out repeating the various words you have used in your responses to my responses in this thread, I vouch that at least one of them (in derivative form) may be found on the Wikipedia entry where the words banned from TV at one time are listed. Banned, because they are obscene. Bye!
@dogma6792004 You should probably give up on trolling, or at least go into lurking for 5 or 6 years. His response contained no emotions at all; IE: fail troll fails.
Loved the presentation. I've been looking at building one of these for a few years now. It's good to see the information getting out to the general public in an understandable format.
Thanks for the effort expended in this video. Diagrams- common sense explanations and lessons learned ( barrel paint burned off BEFORE installation =D ) and great camera work ( NO VERTIGO ! ) Excellent resource guys!
yeah!im in brighton!puting this in my aquaponic green house.love n light!
Great vid. I like the idea and its well explained. Got to try for myself now.
Very informative video, thanks.
nice video. i'm making one right now, but a much smaller scale.
Ianto is the one with the knowledge and the book to prove it!
pretty interesting. Got to find a design that is a bit smaller so i can put it in my garage
For the place that you feed the twigs in, there is a hole on top. You could likely put that hole on the side if you wanted to.
@DCVU2 This depends on the size of the barrel that you are using. Fire bricks don't break up due to repeated exposure to heat; and they tend to store and release the heat better than regular bricks. The combustion chamber gets very hot! I've recommended Ianto Evans book before, and I recommend it again. Thanks for asking.
i understand the purpose of the insulation, i was commenting on double/triple insulation as possibly being more than necessary..... being a thrifty one and often using recycled materials or making me own, i always try to design for efficiency, but with the least amount of money and materials...mahalo for sharing....aloha, forest
That's kinda cool!!!
Were these all grad students? This looks like an awesome project.
Looks interesting but does it meet the firecodes for indoor operation?
Everything looks good for a demonstration model, but for one that you put in your house, you need to assume the inner metal part of the heat riser will burn away. I recommend a clay mud with 25%-30% sand (it's what brick is made of) with and vermiculite or pearlite so that when your inner tube burns away, your insulation doesn't pour into your burn chamber.
@DCVU2 All I can suggest is trial and error; and be safe! We used non-fire bricks that were a distance from the fire. The fire bricks will retain their shape, and release heat into the space. They are ideal for the application.
I love this idea but how does the smoke from the fire take the path of "Most" resistance rather than out the feed tube?
Nzinga, Joe; thanks for you comments. There should be minimal buildup of creosote - really none if it is operated correctly. I advise you to look at Ianto Evans book - mentioned in my replies below. Nzinga; I'm not sure of a group. There are zoning laws that most like prevent building this type of stove in the city. However, any construction crew could make the stove from this video or with Ianto Evans book.
Amazing. Thing's to help lower-income people tend to be illegal. Thanks for your quick response.
+nzinga zindua That's because a lot of things that people will do aren't necessarily safe. I once had a tenant burning wood in a barrel set on top of cinder blocks in front of an open window inside a second floor apartment. It generated heat, sure. As well as lots and lots of carbon monoxide, not to mention potentially burning the house down. Being poor is not a license nor and excuse to endanger yourself or other people.
hi, nice work. how do you remove the ash which accumulates after a while ?
So am I correct in saying the barrel radiates heat into the living space, and the piped out exhaust supplies heat to a thermal mass (like the seat in the photo)?
@Rockinghorseshart the rocket stove will give off a little smoke into the house. It's important to realize that before installing it. If the utility area you mention is like a screen porch, then it may be appropriate to put the rocket stove there. Not a lot of smoke; just a little as the fire gets started. As for alternative designs; I'm not so sure. The main thing about the 55 gallon drum is it won't burn. Something smaller but still hardy might work for you.
@MrSafetymeeting There will be some minimal smoke that gets into the space where the feed for the rocket stove is located. I'd put that outside on the tailgate of the vehicle. As for the plan you mention, that sounds fine. I'd love to see picture or video of it when you are done. Best wishes!
Nice and informative video.
Is there a problem with Creosote build up and if so how do you clean flue?
Please see my reply - newest comment above.
More insulation could be better. It would depend on the site you are installing it in. A very cold winter & more insulation would be a boon. Warmer climate, maybe less insulation; though I would tend to put more insulation in it in either climate. It will be more efficient to use once you learn how to use it.
@Frankenlego That's right. The heat rising creates a forceful vacuum that draws the smoke into the barrel where the smoke burns, leaving no ash.
You can cook after a fashion. For instance, baked potatoes in foil would likely cook well. The heat will be intense, and probably uneven. You'd have to allow for some trial and error.
Almost like the Sauna. :)
Are you going to be doing a demo in S.E. MI again sometime?
What chances is there of a chimney fire occurring? How do you clean out the creosote build up in a enclosed system like this where everything is built up all around it?
These rocket stoves are Great, built my first one,no regrets, works A1.but now researching on new ideas with this concept,the trick is to have little wood imput and great heat output compared to standard old wood stoves, which so much of the heat is wasted right out the flue pipe.
How do you clean it out?
How long does it take for the barrel to burn out?
Do you put a concrete cover over the cob ?
That could be done with something that won't catch on fire. The barrel gets very hot too.
@Dolichocephalus just don't use any thing that is flammable. If there are any unburned bits mixed in with the ash, they likely would catch fire, as the stove reaches very high temperatures. The vermiculite is volcanic and so very heat resistant as well as being ideally suited to dispersing high heat. Ash and sand would work, and could do a very good job of it too.
Using a suction device as a vacuum cleaner; the other way I'm aware of is to put removable bricks in the design.
@MrSafetymeeting The draw does handle most of it. There will be a little smoke that comes out from the first few twigs that are used to start each fire.
When you first light the stove, some smoke goes into the room; then when there is sufficient heat the smoke is drawn along with the hot air into the combustion chamber. The best way to deal with this is to encase the area where the fire is lit, rather like a traditional fireplace has a screen on it for the same reason; or to put the part of the stove where it is lit outside. It doesn't take long for the heat to drawn all the smoke into the combustion area.
I wonder if i could use this design for a waste oil drip furnace?
Great question; I think it boils down to money (spent to make coal gasification happen - an expensive and inexact proposition) and profit reduction in the short term if coal power plants were so equipped.
why doesn't the smoke just go straight up? how do you get it to go sideways into the combustion chamber? seems like it would be much more likely to suck in air from the combustion chamber and blow smoke straight up into the room.
I'm in Detroit. What organization can I connect with to get a rocket stove mass heater in my home? Great vid & very informative.
Please see my reply - newest comment above.
@Rockinghorseshart some people use sunflower stalks for the biomass.
Can you cook on the top
They should last a long time; just keep them dry: indoors, with a tarp or whatever. They are much more efficient than regular chimney stoves. I've recommended a book by Ianto Evans, and recommend it again. Just google rocket stove, Ianto Evans to find it. Or check at your library.
The smoke is drawn into the combustion chamber by the vacuum created by burning creosote. Please refer to Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heater for more information.
yesterday i went visiting the sun pyramid in teotihuacan mexico and it came to my mind that it is was a giant rocket stove but i dont know what it could be used for
@muserwood if can do that. I'd go more with fire bricks; and just plain cob. The cob will be fine.
@MrSafetymeeting
Please can you help me. Whats are the name from this "rocket stove mass heater" in German? Thank`s Martin
I don't understand something on the two openings for the combustion chamber. I see the j-shape. One hole is for the fire to go up, vertical. One is for the fuel, but the fuel one you had a hole on top and not the bottom side. You have two vertical holes. I do not understand. Thanks for the video.
I love this design but what about ash? How do you clear it?
There ought to be very little ash build up; and all of it should be in the feed area where the twigs go into the fire. The temperatures in the burn chamber burn all particles.
You can buy sand at a store; or perhaps a neighbor has access to some.
We all have an ongoing interest in the environment; none of us with formal training from in a University in that regard; though most of the people there had some sort of degree or University study.
Most vermiculite has asbestos in it - according to the Illinois Department of Health. I was unaware of that. It is not the vermiculite itself that has asbestos, but rather from the mine it comes from. According to wikipedia, at this time, vermiculite for sale should have been inspected and only be for sale if it is asbestos free.
What part of Michigan are you from? I am from around langsing.
@Anvilshock Ash builds up very slowly if at all. There is almost no ash created at temperatures above 1500 degrees; and that's how hot it gets in the burn chamber.
I'm only half way through but vermiculite was mentioned 4 times and not once did the words "use extreme caution, causes cancer" come after it. Is this some magic vermiculite that you're using or is that maybe an important detail worth noting?
It is not the vermiculite itself that has asbestos, but rather from the mine it comes from. According to wikipedia, at this time, vermiculite for sale should have been inspected and only be for sale if it is asbestos free. So in other words, it's your regular garden variety vermiculite that is completely asbestos free.
Vermiculite that is sold in the store no longer has asbestos in it. The last time there was vermiculite with asbestos in it for sale was before 1980. There is more information about asbestos and vermiculite in the comments below, if you'd like to read them. Thanks for your comment.
Ann Arbor area. Thinking about making another video soon.
Can you show more about the exhaust end of the rocket stove... I have tried building the small ones with cans, not with great success tho. I used kitty litter for insulation as it was on hand and FREE.. Could that been the cause of my problem.?? Seems as tho it would start to draw, but wouldn't catch up.. Like it wasn't getting and staying hot enuf. Thanks cause I'm livntolaugh :-)
livntolaugh, thanks for you comment. I'm not doing more videos at this time. I recommend Ianto Evans book: Rocket Mass Heaters. Best of luck to you.
+livntolaugh This is because heat does not scale. What I mean is that there is a break point whereat the heat generated by your fire is too little and your chimney too short to create an effective draft. Build it large enough and it will work.
you forgot the chicken wire step! What is under the chicken wire?...it don't look like bricks?
That is one bad hat, Harry. :-)
@amos033 Fascinating how these sorts of technologies emerged at about the same time in different continents. Thanks for the comment.
@Rauschelesee I'm not sure that there is a good translation. The best I found was: Rocket Stove Masse Heizung. I hope that this helps.
The draft is caused by the intense heat and vacuum thereof. At first some smoke comes out the lighting chamber; but then it is funneled through the exhaust tube. Build one, or visit one to see what I mean.
A simple grill, like on a regular fireplace, will keep the sparks out of your home if you put this heating device in your home.
Why test, Jeff?
isn't it a bit overkill moneywise and insulationwise to use both fire bricks and vermiculite....one could save money by using cob around the fire bricks or sand, or just clay....same with a triple insulated stovepipe...doesn't the firebrick insulate enough????...mahalo for sharing, aloha, forest
nice.
You're welcome!!
Please refer to Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heater for more information.
@Rockinghorseshart let me know how it turns out!
The problems associated with asbestos come from prolonged exposure over the course of years. Not from not from occasional handling,
@dogma6792004 not sure what you're referring to exactly, but "thanks" for the comment.
Most of the combustible material is burned off. That is the beauty of the rocket stove. Check out Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heaters for more information.
@MisterBahston thanks for you thoughts!
For more information google Ianto Evans Rocket Stove. He has a great book on the subject!
@Dolichocephalus perelite is usually cheaper, and its about the same thing
Check out the book by Ianto Evans Rocket Mass Heater for detailed information to questions like these. The principle interviewee in this video has lived through 3 severe Michigan winters without having to clean out the chimney. The Creosote is almost completely burned away in the combustion chamber before it reaches the chimney.
@dogma6792004 I'm not going to post your comment in response to the thread here. It uses swear words, and is slanderous. If you think you have something to add, you'll have to try again. Thanks.
It burns the gas - so is it pollution reducing?
If so, why aren't coal power stations built to do this?
Yes they do, significantly so.
@chrismallyon Most of the combustible material is burned off. That is the beauty of the rocket stove. Check out Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heaters for more information.
@keptyeti Most of the combustible material is burned off. That is the beauty of the rocket stove. Check out Ianto Evans book Rocket mass heaters for more information.
@Wazabooz That's right.
some sort of storage heat,,,
@Wazabooz That's right :)
You'll have to check with your local government agency.
This guy totally missed the major part of the concept. The rocket stove is designed high enough so that the heat going out of the chimney creates a suction, drawing more and more air into the chamber as the heat builds. As more and more air gets sucked in as it heats up, a blast furnace effect is created. That is what causes the extreme heat. The insulation is important, but this example is overkill. You can build an effective rocket stove out of fire brick alone and put a grate on top of it to cook on.
Hi; well it does depend on how cold it gets where you live. More insulation is better in colder weather. Helps keep everything warmer longer.
starman2765 Which is to say, the rocket stove is not just for cooking, but also heating a dwelling.
This looks very unsafe for home heating having no means to keep sparks and flames from going into the house.
This concept could be improved upon by copying some of the design principles of a solid fuel Aga - a small gravity fed fire with exhaust gasses drawn around an inner cast iron cylinder, the top of which heats up for cooking, then flowing under a second hot plate which operates at a lower temperature and simultaneously over two cast iron ovens stacked one on top of another before finally exiting and all surrounded by insulating vermiculite - super efficient thermal mass heater for cooking, space heating and even hot water with the addition of a small boiler which wraps partly around the cylinder.
good
I had written a comment before and it did not appear. So I wrote a test to see if it would.
Diolch yn fawr Ianto.
Not sure what happened. I may have deleted your earlier comment.
I Don't Know.
Much less wood.
@dogma6792004 calling people words that insult their intelligence is indeed slander. You may want to bear that in mind as you go forward in life. With out repeating the various words you have used in your responses to my responses in this thread, I vouch that at least one of them (in derivative form) may be found on the Wikipedia entry where the words banned from TV at one time are listed. Banned, because they are obscene. Bye!
A2
@dogma6792004 You should probably give up on trolling, or at least go into lurking for 5 or 6 years. His response contained no emotions at all; IE: fail troll fails.