3.24 Yogi tries to justify Mastermodes - Double down
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- 3.24 Yogi tries to justify Mastermodes - Double down
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Spectrum thread: robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/weapon-groups-do-not-persist-between-flight-modes-/7152617
thx for the link spectrum citizen is by far the best game mode
@@Camural thx for the link since all feedback that reaches Yogi is so positive about MM i replied with a negative remark. Ofc it doesnt matter but its all i can do
I wont post in there. If I would write my mind ill be banned from spectrum for a few months.
Master modes is good for simplifying pursuit speeds for PvP and allows designing for escape game play for non-PvPers. (If CIG thought of doing that.) Any server performance gained is a win, win. Go play Independence War 2: Edge of Chaos. That game will make you see the light on why master modes is good and how it should be balanced. (That game is old so make sure it's compatible.) What is bad right now is everything isn't balanced for master modes and wasn't designed to be compatible with master modes. Everything has to be changed for this new flight model and CIG isn't making fast enough iterations so they're getting master modes blamed when it's their other designs that is currently not compatible with MM that is causing the problems. At slower speeds a game can be made to look like it's fast and exciting but that is if everything is traveling at those slower speeds. Projectiles shot must also be made to move slower and that will make the servers bleed by tracking those projectiles for a longer amount of time. Everything has to be changed and CIG needs to do it faster.
If they are still figuring out ship combat than the "SQ42 is feature complete" statement was a complete lie. Which I think most people didn't believe anyways
It's also like the 4th or 5th time they've lied about SQ42 being feature complete, just polishing left, beta dates announced (multiple times) and so forth. They couldn't even forecast 1 quarter given a year's running start at a roadmap in the 9th or 10th year of development. They're hopeless as a dev studio goes.
So many people thought it was going to be released in just a couple of months after he said that it was feature complete!
Didn't they point out themselves that feature complete does not mean "content complete" lmao
Complete and utter missmanagement with decisions apparently being made on the spot and at the whims of the higherups, mainly Chris himself.
100%.
11 years and still trying to figure out ship combat
still trying to figure out the flight model, without a physics simulation.
@@NoxiousButtSpray not sure why people want proper physics........ you realise with proper physics most ships actually wouldnt fly or handle because there centre of gravity in relation to the engines is so out of whack the moment you induce any form of momentum or direction with physics applied they will fly like ass or just not fly.
Dont get me wrong i dont like the flight model but physics isnt the answer either without redesigning ships (which they wont do)
still trying to figure out ship combat
still trying to figure out inventory
still trying to figure out basic npc behavior
I don't think physics is the right word. Objects such as ships just need to have a weight assigned to them so that Pico the penguin doesn't have to be used to stop the wind from blowing away your million ton ship. ...And a medical cart can't push it into outerspace after bumping into it.
It must be one heck of a turnover rate.
What yogi wrote feels like CIG might finish the flight model in year 17 or 18.
To be fair, NightRider spends so much time deleting anything critical of the game that I would not be too surprised if Yogi doesn't have the opportunity to read it before it gets deleted.
I would post on Spectrum "someone should suggest that Yogi go speak with GhostRider and ask to see all the deleted feedback" but that, of course, would just get deleted too.
Can confirm
@@TexanTemplar I have had 2 week bans on spectrum for less.
[Deleted by Nightrider-CIG]
Yogi is the worst decision CIG's ever made.
I would say he’s tied with Jared
@@toecutter9372What's wrong with Jared, dont think he's bad. Giving the media / public face of the game with personality is good for marketing outside the existing player base is it not?
@@CallumCarmicheal Jared is now the face of all CIG's lies, before it was Tyler, Tony, Sean and sometimes Chris every year showing face at their "cons.
@@cabbshills5732 I like Jared, he has a tough job
I will like Yogi when I see atmospheric flight gameplay they showed at last citizencon in the f’cking game
Yogi is in some type of echo chamber
He doesn't play SC
The dude only looks at spreadsheets and the Shadow Moses discord.
The end of year 12 of development and Yogi is claiming they are just getting started on the fundamental flight model of their space game. Yogi, that's saying way more about the incompetence of CIG and your own obliviousness to the problems.
I’m super happy that the developers are thrilled with master modes. But we hate it and since it’s our money and ours is the opinion that counts, what are they thinking?
From what I understand, this is not their mentality at all. They see it more like a piece of art that we are to be in awe of, and criticizing their hard work is a cardinal sin
MM is the biggest step backwards. Alienated a huge portion of the player base. So many missteps this year. Makes you wonder what they are smoking over there
you're assuming money=ownership of the game, you would be wrong we are funding their idea not ours.
@@starbuck5728we had 20ppl active in our daily discord, now 2 ppl.
@@starcitizenfriendsandmentoringand WE decided the stretch goals, this was not one
As soon as someone lists "escaping is harder" as a positive thing you know which clientele their efforts are focused on. Everyone else just gotta live with it apparently.
people escaping fight was a problem. oh they want my cargo. whooosh then qt. ohh i'm loesing a fight i started woosh qt. ect . it should be too easy to get away from a fight once it's been engaged. the game has pvp, if you don't like pvp then you can stay in stanton and leave pyro for everyone else
@@dracoflame3921 Eh, pvp and successful piracy have been in SC for ages. It just didn't happen enough according to their telemetry or some such, so here are crutch modes to make it easier.
@@dracoflame3921 That's not a "problem", it's not the carebears job to be your content.
@@nuanilbro I was a hardcore PvPer for ages we all hate MM. I’m with you, who cares that people can escape? This guy is talking nonsense. Someone attacked you and then ran away? Good that means you won doesn’t it? You attack a hauler and he gets away, sounds like a you problem. People will die plenty when there’s something worth dying for but for now it’s just dick measuring. I’ve had plenty of situations where people we were pirating put it all on the line and died en masse defending their haul. Or defending their friends. Why? Because there was a win condition. In a game like SC killing means nothing, it’s accomplishing your mission that matters. So what’s all this crap about “it was too easy to get away?” Nonsense. A
My favorite thing he said.. "NAV Mode feels too vulnerable". You don't say?! You took away shields, and expected the players to rely on non-existent armor and wildly imbalanced hull HP and speeds to survive!
I've said it before and I stand by it - Yogi is a Clown, and he doesn't play the game. He should be fired for incompetence, but that would require CR to actually care about development..
Master Mode = SLOW MODE and drains all the fun from flying my fleet of ships ... GO BACK TO 3.12 at 60% speed. We know server meshing being good is a decade away for CIG Devs
Guys it is early days.
Buy more ships, everything will be fine
Star Citizen - the game which is in perpetual early development. Tier 0!
In the Spectrum General Thread "Weapons groups do not persist between flight modes in 3.24" Yogi again doubles down twice in the thread saying: "As I said before we're pretty happy with the MM changes. Some balance issues aside it achieved what it meant to achieve but it doesn't mean that we're done with the FM."
this really worries me about the games direction. it also against the KS stated flight mode and the Letter from the Chairman in 2014.
I am about to greymarket sell my ships and account and move on. CIG is going the wrong way and I'm losing faith we will get what we were promised in the KS
Went through the process and got a quote on mine. Since I have a Polaris I'm waiting till it drops to sell it for a bump in price. But with what CIG is doing idk if that's wise
"We're pretty happy with MM, the game is far less fun and fewer people are participating in combat than ever before. Thank god I never play the game myself." -Yogi
Yogi is trying to justify not losing his job!!! A majority of players hate Master Modes!!!!!!!!!!!
He should lose his job. The man is terrible at what he does.
If his job is too loose then he should tighten it up with a torque wrench.
If I had the time (or it paid really well) I'd like a jab at his job. Sure, after a year, you'd need to actually learn how to fly instead of just pointing your nose and hitting . And sure, docking with an orbital station would be a real challenge because it would ... orbit. And combat would look more like The Expanse than Star Wars, rendering small fighters obsolete outside of atmosphere. But hey, that's why CIG doesn't have a publisher: to be able to create a niche game for a bunch of nerds without having to bow to mainstream tastes, right? Right?
@@michelians1148 lol
Why double down when you can TRIPLE DOWN.
Sorry, Master Modes removed triple movement of any sort.
Tricording and tripling down are removed for “immersion.”
You can’t triple stamp a double stamp… Dems da rulez
According yogi, MM has been a success.. But reality is that +90% of pvp community hates MM, +90% of racing community hates MM, +50% of pve community hates MM.. If that is success by cig standars, i wonder what they consider as a failure.
Honestly, the more I used master mode, the more I hated it, even though I wasn’t the one flying the ship-that’s how bad it is. The ground vehicles feel like cheap toys you get from a fast food restaurant, extremely low quality. Even PS1 and N64 games have less bandwidth but still manage to be fun. These people take one step forward and three steps back. There will come a time when I’ll look to sell my ships if they keep being this incompetent. Someone isn't doing their job when it comes to organizing priorities, leaving everything half-finished.
It's like a house with crooked walls, no kitchen, holes in all the walls, and rooms with no doors. Yes, the architect is terrible, but the workers dont know what they're doing. Then, the real estate agent tries to tell us that it's amazing
Let’s be frank, there is no way back from master modes. Community feedback was always only going to be a way for players to vent their distaste, not to democratize the process of rolling back changes. There is no option of going back with Yogi.
@thenegociater3387 the decision to use mastermodes surely came from the very top, from Chris.
Chris is controlling everything, don't think a dev can just introduce mastermodes.
@@CamuralYogi came right to the edge of explicitly saying this during the Tomato/Avenger 1/Yogi “future of space combat” stream they did 8-10 months ago.
Skip to the section on capital combat and he very nearly says exactly this.
@Camural MM isn't flawed in concept. It works very well in other games. CiG just have no idea how to do it.
Just like everything else
@@lennoxdantes7555 I agree. Honestly if it was *just* a speed limiter but you retained true 6DOF flight control, MM would be fine.
“Oh above X output the quantum drive quantum’s up the weapons/shields/etc” or what ever would be adequate explanation. They already say the Q Drive is involved in reaching Nav speed even when in flight mode, so it’s easy to have a plausible combat speed limit.
But that’s not what they did. They limited the speed *and* fundamentally changed how the ship thrusters work during SCM vs Nav, which gave us this… nonsense.
Thank you very much for voicing our concerns and keep it real
can confirm. I left because of master modes.
now space is green and that makes me want to come back even less.
They're doing a great job killing their game off because they don't know how to finish it.
What will the excuse be when Server Meshing doesn't alleviate these issues or issues for NPCs?
@DaringDan same thing CIG does forever: if server meshing fails, there will be the next big tech, just around the corner that will fix everything.
Oh believe me, they won't outright tell us about that.
If it comes to that they will either...
...covertly introduce some new fancy tech prerequisit from "under the table" so to speak and act like this was always part of the project,
...or they will split up some existing techword into several new fancy words because "this now better represents our challenging development endeavour" and then take another few years to work on each new split up tech thingy,
...or they will just be silent on the whole thing (as they were on the promised quarterly Squadron42 Briefing Room episodes years ago) and hope backers don't ask too many questions while CIG themselves hope for a coding miracle to make it work.
Same thing they say about everything. That it's an early iteration and it will get better. Then they'll scrap it entirely
The big AI refactor. You know, server meshing introduced all these possibilities for performance improvements, but the AI subsystem must actually take advantage of that. It's a bit too technical for the average layperson that is not a game developer to understand, but they have started the big AI Refactor Nexus (BAIRN) and once this is fully implemented the flood gates will open. It just this tiny little bit we have to stretch.
the face of failure.
Only CIG could take something bad and make it worse. GG CIG FM
i want some of what yogi is smoking
Why? So you can also be a retard?
I think we just have to write off ship combat as a viable game loop, and just hope they don't ruin the other loops. They designed it for huge fleet combat, which may be the Squadron 42 case, but not the PU base/common case. They've invested too much time and money into MM, and will never admit that it was a bad design, even if they come to realize it themselves. Maybe they can create some fun new loops. I won't hold my breath, as I'm in wait and see mode for the next 3 years. There isn't much use complaining about it anymore, since the core of MM isn't going to change.
Ppl remember CIG is hiring the bottom of the barrel Devs. The best in the industry do not go to CIG and the good Devs all left already.
Yogi sucks. It's not that he doesn't want to do good work, it's that he has proven unable but refuses to admit that. He offers the facade of integrity while parroting every issued talking point.
For Chris Roberts, the failure of this game can’t come soon enough, so he can get on with doing whatever it is he really wants to do.
Maybe he just wants to always be building this game, just never delivering it
He's been doing that for the past 12 years. He's used Star Citizen funding to do a bunch of stuff that isn't actually needed for either game but lets him pretend he's a bigshot movie maker. Consider the supposed funding of the Gemini42 production company in the UK that now owns some of the largest motion capture and soundstage facilities in the country - Star Citizen backers paid for that, but it appears that we also get to pay for them to do motion capture as a sort of 'hollywood accounting' trick. Speaking of star appeal, did we need A and B list actors in our space game? No, but they sure did pay them a TON of money to be around and do constant reshoots so they could rub shoulders with hollywood. One of the perks of their inability to plan is that the SQ42 that supposedly had a full script in 2014 and was ready for beta in 2016 is still doing reshoots in 2023.
@@805Peej That would explain why after 10 years of development on a game that was supposed to come after two he raised a toast to 'ten years of development' then followed it up with a big goofy grin of 'and to the next ten'. Like he just doesn't understand how badly he's let people down and how his wasteful dithering, indecision and rework are things to be profoundly ashamed of. Instead he 'absolves himself' of constantly lying about their schedule failures.
I hope someone in the EU takes him to court and Nukes the game. The US curt system wont do anything.
Don't think they grasp just how many folk play this game and are NOT activbely seeking combat but want to trade, mine, haul or what have you. Nor do they grasp how screwed over the smaller industrial ships, Prospector and Vulture, have been with MM, likewise starter ships that are not the Titan. Sometimes its about being honest enough to admit failure that gets the fans' sympathy.
I think we had a solid flight and combat model up to 3.13. (Not perfect but working and fun - and even had components that mattered). But I fully agree, when you say the real reason for making everything "slow" is the underlying code. Cry engine was meant to look good - and it does, even today (except for the LOD pop -ups). But as an MMO platform it is clearly not the best choice.
MM is a big part of SQ42, and I do not think they could change it now. All the missions would have to be adjusted. And Marketing said "SC must have the same model as SQ42" so we can sell it to everyone who liked SQ42. How I wished Wonder Woman would visit CIG headquartes and used her magical lasso to make them tell the truth - just once.
Well, they will have to change it anyway, once they figure out how ship armor is going to work. This will mess up all the balancing.
My dude @dragonchild_SC gets it when he points out the elephant in the room that we should have all been saying from day one - CryEngine was a bad choice.
This project was doomed from the start. I saw that specific red flag almost immediately and brushed it off until now... and I'm really seeing the long term consequences of that decision. No multiplayer games use CryEngine or its derivatives and the ones that have tried have failed horribly.
Yogi should have been fired over master modes. The feedback on it was almost universally negative no one wanted it as it was a direct step away from sim and a direct step toward dumbed down arcade game.
master modes is the stupidest thing they ever have done. Destroying space flight in a space game....
@@5h4ndt it was shit to begin with. Now it's worse. Literally has been the least fun part of SC since day 1
@@lennoxdantes7555 Those were some of the most incredible fights that happened with full speed fights.
@@zyloctal There was a time when pirate swarm in AC was the most fun game I had. I wish I could go back to the old builds...
@@poposterous236 We legit need to start a large spectrum post, and tell everyone to up vote it to force them to change the model.
Yeah i miss the old flight model. It was more fun.
I"m not a PVPer, and basically just a horrible pilot altogether - but I still think the older flight model was more fun. I was certainly OK with the folks that wanted to spend time to get really good at 'jousting' or whatever with that older flight model. I figured the folks that wanted to spend time in it to 'git good' was a valid choice. MM is the death of me. So boring. I would hope that Yogi is truly reflecting on this, and that he isn't the single point decision maker in this.
I also sucked at PVP but goddamn was the older flight model more fun than MM. SC actually had something going for it at one point.
The master mode is probably the worst thing has been added to the game
How about space cows that lay eggs?
@@tgfover9000 those are awesome
Not to mention how we all thought we'd be able to do engineering gameplay from a co pilot seat, instead of running around like lemmings
I think Data's laugh pretty much sums up my reaction to all of their poor development ideas as of late. (B)astard modes was DOA before it hit servers. They are slapping on more and more spaghetti coding on a outdated engine as Chris has pipe dreams of a game that will never come to fruition.
@camural, I’ve been subscribed to your Chanel for a very long time. I’ve been a backer £6+k since 2015 and like you hope this game is a success. I have been a private pilot for over 20 years with my own 2 seater plane. I’ve have read so many books and first hand accounts of WWII fighter battles and it is clear that CGI have completely missed the point. Most engagements were over very quickly and focused on surprise attacks as well as out gunning and manoeuvring your opponent. Spending 5-10 mins engaging an enemy is completely ridiculous. They need to do the research.
It's not that I per se hate Yogi for how willfully ignorant he appears to be towards the vocal backlash on Spectrum, but it takes a special kind of person to be so tonedeaf towards the backlash and...atleast from how I'm reading his post...make all the reasoning about combat...AGAIN...wow...who would've expected that.
The previous system might've required some more tuning and care for the power triangle and some fighter crafts specifically...BUT NOOOO...they had to throw that out and however much time and effort AND backer funding that was wasted on that system until then, and come up with this utter steaming pile of dogshit because "uuuuhh, combat needs to be closer and slower...duuuuuuh".
I really REEEEALLY hope that the attendees at this years CitizenCon'ned are a representative average of the recent, sometimes heated, Spectrum discussions who will let CIG audibly know that they are running out of patience.
I don't get how they went this many years in development and have gone backwards with ship combat. I can't even be mad, I'm impressed.
Master mode is a terrible idea, but CIG went so full into it that that will never admit it solved nothing and it ruined the experience.
Resources have been wasted and Yogi's team have to capitalize on that rather than admit to the accountant they threw away company's money.
I was prone to think Yogi as smeone who cared about the game experience, but now I see him for what it is: "a problem"
This may sound a little rash and thoughtless on my part, but I do hope these tonedeaf decisions will cause CIG some funding problems due to folks shutting their wallets.
Not sure how that would be a problem given how much money has already been thrown away on pointless ventures. I'd be surprised if this was seen any different. The only difference I could see that would make any difference would be whether or not it's Robert's idea to throw it out. How else does a company spend 700 million and still have nothing to show for it but an alpha?
Been out now for a few months now. The results are undeniable, people are walking away. When the $$ starts to reflect that expect a panic change that will make things worse even.
11.5 year flight model and ship combat not finished.
This feels like a government contract
Stoped playing star citizen because of Master modes. This is true.
Groundbreaking spaghetti code
12 years of one of the worst Flight Models in any space game... now they try to "fix" it for the 7th time.... biggest fail ever.
How is Yogi still employed? What if you sucked at your job for 12 years?
I hope you get your game, Camural. I hope they actually do deliver. But - fuck me - it's not looking good, bruv.
Simple solution to these issues. Everyone stop buying anything from their store. The moment cash flow stops they will listen. Its very simple Everyone stop spending money on this game till then.
thank you Camural 🙏
WW2 speeds... space flight... make up your fucking mind there's one or the other.
I've never seen a dev team ever give in after critical feedback in every mmo alpha/beta I've tested. Not a single time. Instead they doted on white knights. I don't mean the buffs and nerfs feedback, devs are always happy to nerf whatever their cheerleader fans say, or whatever faction they favor. I mean they never change anything that's basic gameplay. I grew so tired of reading them type about metrics. Which miraculously always supported their basic design decisions, and nothing else. Usually dripping with arrogance. I should add that when the critical voices claimed their game was doomed to fail if they launched without addressing what most saw as a critical failing, they were right. In the dozens of games I tested none lasted a year unless they made drastic changes that were talked about in the beta forums, and it was usually too late by then. Many launched with millions of players only to be merging servers less than a year later. CIG is heading the same way, but I don't think they really care since they've made enough money for the top people to retire in luxury.
The biggest example I can give you top of my head is FF XIV launched in 2010 . The original Final Fantasy XIV suffered from widespread negative feedback. Critics and players found the game to be deeply flawed due to various issues such as: Technical issues, unpolished gameplay mechanics and incredibly poor design choices. The backlash was strong enough that Square Enix decided to stop charging subscription fees just two months after the game’s launch, and they eventually made the drastic decision to shut it down in late 2012. SE listened to the feedback from players and critics. The company brought in Naoki Yoshida, who was not involved with the original game, to lead the development of the relaunch. Yoshida and his team completely revamped the game’s systems, story, and infrastructure. After the relaunch in 2013 it has been considered a huge success that is still ongoing. There's a few more i can give you but this post is already too long.
The psychopathy man. Even battle state games went back on some pretty hard design philosophies because the player base didn't like it. It's a business decision.
It would be interesting to know how much of that post was PR stuff and how much Yogi's own genuine opinion.
@friendlyspacedragon7250 this reads like 80% was written by marketing.
Camural, I really appreciate and enjoy watching your videos calling out the ridiculous and impractical decisions this dev team continue to make; and I feel vindicated for the very critical way I look at the game lately. Keep up the good work!
I don't mind MM as a concept, my only issue is that they havn't put at least 80% of their resources into hammering out the perfect and polished flight and flight combat model before building anything else out in the game. At this point there are plenty of ships and other half working gameloops that people would be happy just having that complete for the next couple years while they build the rest out. But this idea of trickling out random bs while also slowly working on main systems is the dumbest thing ive ever heard. This is what happens when the marketing team runs the company... CR and the rest of production team needs to get their head out of their asses and lock down the CORE GAMEPLAY before adding freaking pico neck tattoos or pointless cows. NO ONE CARES ABOUT THIS GARBAGE WHEN THERE IS NO GAME OR PROPER FLIGHT MODEL TO ENJOY THESE THINGS IN.
I thought in the past Yogi's answer to master modes sucking was always "4.0 wait and see. We had to get it in quickly on every ship but 4.0 is a much more substantial patch." or something of the sort I'm not exactly quoting him.
It's so frustrating to see all the fun taken out of the game, unless you laugh at bugs. Things take longer and longer. Things that work suddenly stop working. Every new feature comes with bugs. What's the point of having tons of boxes in the game if you can't take anything with you without a square clown balloon.
I just look at it as the overall satisfaction I have with everything else. So, I dont mind master modes. When playing the Commerce loops its just one more way to make sure I play victim for everyone else. It does allow me to get in behind another ship and stay on their rear. Thanks Cam.
I don't honestly think they have done this because of server issues, I think they have done it because of controller issues - which is almost worse. CIG have created a flight model that allows the pilot to apply 100% thrust in any direction at any time without repercussions, no need for fidelity because the mode itself limits you to a safe speed. They are doing this to ensure that keyboard and mouse users or gamepad users are able to fly at the same level as HOSAS users - which I think is a terrible choice for a PC-only space sim.
Sure, make it possible to fly with K&M or Gamepads, but if that is the limit then the game will forever remain a shallow husk of what it could have been where flight is just a 6dof version of running.
Which is not the point: nobody asked CIG to create an unrealistic simulation, where small maneuvering thrusters allow for full speed 6DOF speed variations.
Make it real, give a big boost on the rear and rotation capability, with limited sideways accelerations. Make it so that you gain maneuverability from flying decoupled rather then making it useless, at least while in open space.
Solve the issues of speed with proper aerodynamics in atmosphere.
If you speed too much you cannot maneuver because of the inertia energy you have built up, so it's not good strategy, as you can't defend from missiles.
The REAL problem is that Chris wants an X-Wing (Wing Commander style) simulation where you corner like a Mitsubishi Zero and you soundly PEW PEW in space.
Modern gamepads increasingly have enough analogue controls (sticks, triggers, and gyro) to easily handle 6DOF.
Those fancy new keebs that measure keystroke distance can also allow analogue controls.
So even that’s not an excuse for these choices.
@@piedpiper1172 In theory yes, but the range of motion is very small, and most gamepad or keyboard users will spend the majority of their time at full deflection/activation. CIG have quite clearly designed their flight model for this, which absolutely sucks for those of us with HOSAS, HOTAS or full flight sim setups.
@@texnorthman I mean, I have a full HOSAS w/ pedal in a two seat sim cockpit (my partner uses HOSAM w/ pedal), and I exclusively play via controller in all other games (including all out of cockpit stuff in SC).
So you’re kinda preaching to the choir about how much better HOSAS is. At the same time, it’s entirely possible to set up a modern control to give useful analog control via thumb stick curves, haptic triggers, and gyro. Just about any controller player can control deflection adequately to do things like run or walk based on input intensity, or utilize fine grain control like racing games. So long as you very clearly indicate to players (both via signposting and game mechanics) that precision control is useful, they’ll use it.
I can do AC laps on controller that are within error margin of my normal set up (what difference there is feels like it is probs cus I have so little relative time flying with the controller).
Which is my point. They objectively don’t have to neuter the flight model for a console port. The DS5 controller out of the box is more than up to the task of giving you highly precise 6DOF analog control (personally I use up/lat strafe left stick, pitch/roll right stick, throttle triggers, gyro yaw). Any special edition of the controller could come with higher resistance sticks, but there is already ample support for stick mods (both to make them taller, thus more precise, and to increase resistance).
I think they’re just making a bad flight model because Chris won’t sit down and practice. Consoles, for once, don’t deserve the blame. They’ve actually been improving their controller tech over the last 12 years, which Chris apparently refuses to learn.
I have been playing with a gamepad since 2016 and while somewhat hamstrung by my choices I still had a ton of fun in the old flight model. MM has ruined the experience for me. It doesn't make gamepad controls better in the slightest.
So the flight model is nowhere near finished yet SQ42 has been in polishing for approximately a year, smells fishy to me.
Yeah they totally want this to fail so they can cash out
After 4.0? Last time Yogi told us about it the improvement was coming in 4.0.
Best solution? Revert to Space Combat that was 3.12 (Low Speed Combat), and the great leveling that was 3.14 and iterate on it as promissed back then.
I was trying to hold this back, but either Yogi is lying to cover up his own dumbassery or is completely incompetent. There is no in-between just like master modes
You nailed it. Their engine is too old, everything is going to keep being slowed down 😥
I said it already on reddit, but I'll repeat it here because it just kills the physicist in me: wtf is "Mach 1 in space" supposed to be? Without a medium there is no speed of sound, hence no Mach number. And this person is in charge of flight physics at CIG?? I guess you get what you pay for; and Chris is cheaper than Scrooge McDuck.
Edit: Wikipedia cites a speed of sound for interplanetary medium at 1AU from the sun at 60km/s. I want to see anything in SC move at that speed outside of QT!
There's such a simple solution to this. Just decrease the precision on weapons or artificially make them unable to connect if your velocity is too much different from the other ship. If you want your shots to connect, you have to get closer and match speeds with your target. Want to pirate a fast ship? Get a faster ship, duh. Master modes is horrible, it made me stop doing any kind of combat. Though I do like the magical cheat space break, That's the only useful feature.
"We're buzzing around at mach 1" Who cares what the relative speed is to real life, its just a game. "We're talking WW2 speeds" in a space game about space travel.
CIG's devs often forget who they are making the game for. Are you making it for the people who are funding you? Or are you making a private game to suite your own likings? Because the people who are funding you are telling you it sucks.
It appears that they are still uncertain about their objectives. i hope they will get rid of that static master mode and further iterate on the system.
Server meshing will help to improve lag and desync, but if they also plan to introduce 800+ players into a meshed server, then I fear the same issues will keep presenting themselves.
It's a shame they don't care what we want when it comes to master modes. Come on CIG you tried it and we don't like it. Take it away.
Well I currently can not get to my hangar in Orison. I have not been able to play all day. I hope my weekend is not ruined. I see CIG has no plans on releasing a patch today (Friday). Also I have been stacking RMC in my warehouse & I can not sell it at Orison TDD, they do not see it. I have very little hope.
Thank you Camural for your videos. You have completely replaced Saltymike!
The denial that ppl like dislike MM is crazy.
Everyone Hates this flight model.
Bring back the previous one .
These are *NOT* WW2 speeds because the ships are way way bigger than WW2 fighters. A speed that feels fast with P-51 fighting an Me-262 does not feel fast when the "light fighters" are the physical scale of a B-17 Flying Fortress. This generates the visually effective speeds of WW1 biplanes.
In my opinion, master mode is terrible. They should at least allow the ship to maintain its speed when switching to master mode, only losing speed when turning the ship. The speed should be kept without applying an artificial brake, so movement feels natural. A hybrid of the old and new systems would have been much better.
Master mode has taken away the fun, with server problems, glitches, and unrefined systems. The only thing going for the game is the graphics; everything else feels broken. My patience ran out with master mode and the constant promises that take months or years to deliver.
They don’t even seem to realize that if you exit the game without finishing a mission, or if there's a power outage, it causes unnecessary issues. These systems should have safeguards in place to detect when a process is using more resources than normal and quickly address the problem. Instead, it feels like they’re justifying their incompetence, sounding more like kids making excuses.
As technology continues to improve, other games will eventually catch up in terms of graphics and planetary systems. On top of that, they’ll offer more engaging content, like story-driven missions, side quests, and more. If *Star Citizen* doesn’t evolve, it will get left behind by competitors offering a more complete and polished experience.
It feels like CIG started out using the latest tech, but then time passed, and instead of switching to newer tech, they doubled down on making the old tech work. 10 more years and SC will seem ancient
It is such garbage. They are just going to do a full circle back to a power triangle.
Master Modes has legitimately killed off a HUGE chunk of the player base, not just PVP but overall. People can argue and say it's great and it hasn't etc. The fact remains, you go into any of the big orgs and it's a ghost town, you rarely get full servers.
My gut feeling is the needed to dumb it down in order to appeal to a bigger audience (maybe Squadron 42 Consoles) or their tech simply couldn't handle the old flight model and this was a bodge fix (we all know old FM had issues, but at least ships felt like ships)
I haven't played since they released mm. Really feel like I've been ripped off spending money on a game that is now basically unplayable due to being simplistic. There was a time when talent meant something.
Mastermodes are just arcade modes. The only people who enjoy it are the people who can't fly good in general.
Yogi needs to be removed. The game has lost so many players. Yogi is losing the company money.
I greatly appreciate content creators who are willing to call out CIG on their nonsense in a totally reasonable and respectful way. MM, as I see it, is an absolute disaster. I used to enjoy just flying around in SC. Quite literally just flying. Heck, I would get in a ship and just fly around a LEO, buzzing around all the beams and rings just for the pure enjoyment of flight. Now I pretty much hate flying. Getting from place to place now is an awful experience. And combat absolutely sucks. I used to thoroughly enjoy bounty hunting for the dogfighting. It wasn't perfect. It needed work. But it was enjoyable. Not now though.
MM doesn't work. And if you were paying attention from the moment they first started describing the system, you'd know it wouldn't work. I find it ironic both that the items Yogi lists as positives accomplished by MM are things that most players would adamantly disagree with as positives, and that all of the things that Yogi listed as things that need addressing are problems that did not exist in the previous flight model. And why was this introduced? For the sake of PvPers? You mean the folks who overwhelmingly say they hate the system?
I further find it odd that CIG doesn't understand why fewer and fewer people are doing PvP. Years ago, when CIG first discussed the full weapon rework that, for a time, resulted in all weapons of a type (and shields, etc) having the same stats, the devs admitted that almost noone engaged in PvP combat. At the time I think they said it was something like 15% of players willingly engaged in open or scheduled PvP. And this was BEFORE many of the newer career mechanics were added like salvage, etc. As more and more content comes online, fewer and fewer people are limited by basic combat gameplay. And it stands to reason that if only 15% of players were PvPers several years ago, fewer would be that today.
Moreover, as Camural wisely pointed out... CIG keeps increasing the penalty for death. You cannot attempt to encourage sandbox gameplay, which certainly is the bread and butter of the SC experience, while simultaneously punishing any degree of failure (or simply death) in that sandbox. These are mutually exclusive concepts. Either death has a true consequences, which discourages any form of risk-taking or "horsing around," or you encourage players to horse around and do not punish death. You can have one or the other, and not both. And I think the fact that noone participates in modes like Jumptown anymore shows very clearly that folks will not want to engage in the sandbox anymore if death is a risk.
The problem, as always, is CIG's failure to understand the game that they are making. Which causes them to make decisions that continually fight against the reality of the game world and what strengths it has. MM is a prime example of this. The inventory system is another. I could go on. But certainly if the decision-making keeps going this way, they'll drive even more of their customers away... and it would seem CIG is already struggling to pay their exorbinant bills already.
Like the highlighted text fade thing, hadn't noticed it before.
star citizen is definitely taking the wrong turn... I wonder if it is because the recent layoffs of more experienced developers.
I STOPPED DOONG COMBAT WHEN YOU ADDED THE CAPACITOR CRAP IN 3.14, YOGI.
If the CIG's sound engineer (even an assistant, not a full-time one) in charge of FM, I wouldn't dream of what a cleaner would program there in my nightmare. 🤪
I'll be keeping my wallet closed for another year and play something else.
Oh god can we please stop shoving money into that grave called Master Modes already
I think many people do not even care if the flight system is master modes or not, many who have pledged dont even know about MM.
As you said, the problem is the bugs, lags, time sinks, general polish and resets after patches.
It’s 3.5 all over again. 2 years will go by and with all the changes they will make this will all be forgotten and the community will find yet another reason to complain.
CIG's ability to miss the point is stunning.
The issue isn't even that it's slow, the issue is that it feels like you're playing in slow motion because of how completely outrageous almost every single aspect of the game is designed.
Yogi is just a crisis manager. He doesn’t do anything new, interesting or special for SC, he is not a scientist/physicist, he just cuts the capabilities to the level that their backend can carry. 🤷🏻♀️
I don't mind Mastermodes. Being able to switch to NAV mode and run away saved my ass several times.
BUT when I do combat, it got MUCH harder against NPCs ... They're jousting like crazy ... it's hard to get a hit if the NPC is flying something slightly faster.
Yogi factually isn't wrong. But also, we had a dripping roof, now they built a new house but the roof is missing and we are sleeping in the rain until 2025.
There have been so many bad decisions. I still think that capacitors are a stupid design choice. All ships have humogously overpowered generators, so why do we need to limit energy weapons and shields with capacitors. The initial design with weapon overheating made much more sense. Just make lasers overheat more quickly than ballistics. The new design also makes coolers as a component more or less obsolete. The capacitors were mainly intoduced to make lasers work more like ballistics. Why not increase the amount of ammo and introduce an auto reload mechanic for ballistics instead? Also why don't we have a working concept of ship armor yet? SQ42 feature complete but no ship armor? Bullshit. All the current balancing is completely moot without working armor. And then there is the shit show that is master modes. For a game trying to base everything on physicalized stuff, we have a remarkably not physical flight model now. Even with master modes our maneuvering thrusters are insanely powerfull. Why not accept the fact that tiny mav thrusters cannot compete with the main engine? This would give us a choice of going fast but turn slow (i.e. run wide arcs) or go slow and be more agile. Need to brake quickly? Better turn your ass where you are going. Together with the old style of decoupled this would create a very high skill ceiling for experienced pilots. It also create a real need for systems like g-safe and speed / acceleration limiters (old SCM mode) which would allow noobs like me to fly the ships without constantly crashing into things. I really don't mind the turret in space thing too much, because thats what real spacefights are going to look like. No matter how fast you are going in any direction, you will allways be able to spin around your center of mass. In a true decoupled mode without any assists we would therefore need to compensate for spinning ourself. If they want dogfights like ww2 planes just create more points of interest/ missions in planet atmospheres and get a good control surface model in the game. If done right this would also accound for atmo density / composition and wind. Regarding combat in general, I believe that pvp time to kill should be much longer than pve time to kill. If I am doing solo bounty hunting, I don't want to grind every small ship until they finally die. Yes, that is not realistic but I don't care. It's a game after all and my time to play is limited. If I can't have a good experience in a 1 or 2 hour sessions, I am not going to play a lot of SC. Which is exactly the reason why I don't start SC very often these days. Last time I played several days in a row was when they introduced salvaging. I was also into cargo hauling, but loading and unloading the boxes is not much fun atm. Well, I have ranted for too long already. Current flight model sucks.
Inb4 SC swaps to UE5 and adds 2 years for engine conversion alone.
Mastermodes sucks can we start a protest to return back to the normal
Man what echo chamber are they in to think Master Modes has been a big win?
Feedback? CiG removed spectrum posts from ppl saying MM is terible, they used the excuse that we attackd Yogi with the posts. YOGI is handeling MM like a 14y old, keeps lying to him self that its good, and delete post that are saying its bad
Yeah thas really bad .Just look at the things he lists that need improvement.Its like admiting that this thing needs to be developed from the start.
Tbh what I'd really like to see is what the flight model would have looked like without any backer feedback at any point, so basically with only internal testing from the very beginning to release like it is done in a classical development environment. Would they have even arrived at something like MM? Would we have 6dof or only 3? Would they have kept hover mode? Given how they completely fumbled their pseudo physicalized inventory, it might be a bit of morbid curiosity on my part tho, lol.