Hey, it’s the Bootstrapped Web / Restaurant Engine / productize / audience ops guy! Haven’t listened to you in a while, but I’ve learned a ton from you over the years.
Good for you to brave enough to look over the fence, which ever way you choose, it is always good to review other languages for different perspectives every year or two.
I can't imagine any scenario where'd it'd be worth going from Rails to Laravel if you already have a functioning application. Sure, ruby kinda sucks, but both frameworks are so similar. I'd ride it out until some scaling issue causes you to have to change things. It's almost always worth the effort to try and learn new things, though.
I should have clarified... Definitely not talking about migrating an existing application from Rails to Laravel (no way). This is about learning a new stack to build new products on going forward.
I'm interested in what part of Ruby you think sucks, especially compared to PHP. When looking at Laravel code and Rails code I'm really stumbled about how anyone could prefer PHP. Almost every aspect of the Rails framework feels more polished and it's mostly about the Ruby language. Of course, PHP is "easier" to learn but Rubys meta programming abilities is superior. One very apparent example is Eloquent vs ActiveRecord imho. No problem when you are getting a collection of posts, but when doing validation, relations, more advanced query building, fighting n+1 queries etc ActiveRecord is superior. Also ActiveRecord is database agnostic, while Eloquent is only MySQL, right?
How is your exploration of Laravel going? I noticed you switched your Instrumental Products site over to Laravel. Are you starting new client projects in Laravel? Are you close to deciding? Asking because I'm just starting to look into this too.
I would reconsider your "Important Factors" list. If productivity is a priority for you (which is seems to be) then you have to factor in rewrite culture. It's a demonstrable fact that Laravel is more frequently rewritten than any other PHP framework. Moreover, even if Laravel had rock solid stability it appears to be loaded with third-party code. This means that the makers of Laravel could commit to 100% stability today and it wouldn't make any difference. It wouldn't make any difference because the Tailwind guy could rewrite that library tomorrow and in a heartbeat all of your work would be obsolete. Don't forget - all those rewrites not only cost you valuable time. They usually cost clients money. I've reached a stage where I think it's downright irresponsible of commercial developers not to factor rewrite culture into their decision making process. If you're in the business of selling web apps that are literally DESIGNED TO BE BROKEN then I'm calling that unethical. A relentless schedule of rewrites for you today is a hidden cost for your clients tomorrow. All that being said, Rails looks amazing. You made a good choice and I wish you well.
![KAYTRANADA - Witchy (feat. Childish Gambino) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jGK3YVmGZ3Y/mqdefault.jpg)
He is still sticking with Rails. 😁 Because Rails is freedom and kingdom!
Hey, it’s the Bootstrapped Web / Restaurant Engine / productize / audience ops guy! Haven’t listened to you in a while, but I’ve learned a ton from you over the years.
Ha good to hear!
I’ve sold and moved on from 3 of those 4 things :)
Good for you to brave enough to look over the fence, which ever way you choose, it is always good to review other languages for different perspectives every year or two.
Love Laravel. PHP Leveled up!
I can't imagine any scenario where'd it'd be worth going from Rails to Laravel if you already have a functioning application. Sure, ruby kinda sucks, but both frameworks are so similar. I'd ride it out until some scaling issue causes you to have to change things.
It's almost always worth the effort to try and learn new things, though.
I should have clarified... Definitely not talking about migrating an existing application from Rails to Laravel (no way).
This is about learning a new stack to build new products on going forward.
I'm interested in what part of Ruby you think sucks, especially compared to PHP. When looking at Laravel code and Rails code I'm really stumbled about how anyone could prefer PHP. Almost every aspect of the Rails framework feels more polished and it's mostly about the Ruby language. Of course, PHP is "easier" to learn but Rubys meta programming abilities is superior.
One very apparent example is Eloquent vs ActiveRecord imho. No problem when you are getting a collection of posts, but when doing validation, relations, more advanced query building, fighting n+1 queries etc ActiveRecord is superior. Also ActiveRecord is database agnostic, while Eloquent is only MySQL, right?
How is your exploration of Laravel going? I noticed you switched your Instrumental Products site over to Laravel. Are you starting new client projects in Laravel? Are you close to deciding? Asking because I'm just starting to look into this too.
Actually I’m sticking with Rails for all apps I work on.
For my websites I use Statamic CMS, which is Laravel based.
@@briancasel Awesome, thanks for the input.
Result tldr ?
I would reconsider your "Important Factors" list. If productivity is a priority for you (which is seems to be) then you have to factor in rewrite culture. It's a demonstrable fact that Laravel is more frequently rewritten than any other PHP framework. Moreover, even if Laravel had rock solid stability it appears to be loaded with third-party code. This means that the makers of Laravel could commit to 100% stability today and it wouldn't make any difference. It wouldn't make any difference because the Tailwind guy could rewrite that library tomorrow and in a heartbeat all of your work would be obsolete. Don't forget - all those rewrites not only cost you valuable time. They usually cost clients money. I've reached a stage where I think it's downright irresponsible of commercial developers not to factor rewrite culture into their decision making process. If you're in the business of selling web apps that are literally DESIGNED TO BE BROKEN then I'm calling that unethical. A relentless schedule of rewrites for you today is a hidden cost for your clients tomorrow. All that being said, Rails looks amazing. You made a good choice and I wish you well.
i realy like trongate's module feature and how it is structured.