Coming from working on cars and never touching tractors before in my life, I never would have thought about doing this. This helped me figure out the loader issue my father-in-law's loader (Future winter me thanks you again) Glad i stumbled across the video, slow and clear directions. Greatly Appreciated!!
I called that before any of the tests. I just rebuilt my bucket cylinders. They were leaking slightly out of the front so I was pretty sure the gaskets (o-rings) were screwed up inside too.
Thank you so much for this! I have to tell you how refreshing and wonderful it is to find a woman's voice and capable guidance here among the tractor trouble-shooting videos. I greatly enjoy the step-by-step reasoning through the problem, arrival at the extremely clever solution, and the notable lack of "man-splaining" . Bravo! You rock!
Katy I found your womansplaining of why this was a good video to be very demeaning and hurtful to women. There is no reason to mention “capable guidance” just because she is a woman, and your use of the term “refreshing” seems as if women do not normally give capable guidance. We all know why this was a good video, but your listing of each step is highly patronizing to this and the many other women DIYers with RUclips channels.
Thank you for, the good troubleshooting methods and options... Much appreciated... I have a New Holland compact tractor that is really slow at the bucket arms. I added my forks and it seems I need even more RPM's to lift. The bucket front/ back tilt work fine. Tnx again! ~ D
Nice, I had this exact problem a year ago and figured it wasn’t to bad… now I have this exact problem and it’s most definitely bad(my bucket tilts forward as fast as it would if I was tilting it under pressure)… I was just going to throw parts at it like normal, but I think I’ll try this first, thanks!
Jeremy, thanks for your note. Did you get a chance to try this diagnostic test out on your equipment? Just curious if it helped you figure out the root cause of your drifting bucket.
This is great info to know, however, if it droops over a period of several hours I don't see how this is a problem. Older tractors wear out overtime and as long as it is not drooping while working the tractor I don't find any harm.
I have a bucket that “droops” like this and it has caused potential hazards. When under load it goes much faster and then it re-pressurizes and jolts. It could drop its load suddenly if the balance was too far forward. Then one time I was lifting an outboard for a friend. He had to run to his house and get a forgotten part real quick. I left it suspended like I had many times while I ran inside to get something. When I came back out the bucket had drooped enough so that the straps slid off the forks and the outboard dropped. No good.
Good info. On my MF both sets leak but I don’t use it commercially like you do. Just a wood getter up here in the BR mountains. If it gets worse though I’m sure I’ll have to correct it. Thanks for sharing
If the piston rod has retracted , the equivalent volume of oil had come out externally ( from cylinder if both piston and gland seals are demaged or from demages hoses ) or internally through directional valve.
Good idea, but the final conclusion is not correct. Piston seal leak will not cause drift. This test proofs there is a leak on the path out from the piston end - the pipe at the ass end of the cylinder, the one you didn`t remove and check.
I was wondering if you could perform a reverse test. Prolonged resting with upward force on the bucket to see if the Pistons leak fluid. Seems to me they are sucking air in either around the seals of the Piston or like someone else said the quick connects which are designed to hold pressure. Great video though.
Last week I had cut a large tree trunk that had fallen over..some of the pieces were maybe 350-500 lbs.. I had cut one in half and fired my Ford 4000 up and the loader went straight up without me even moving the lever to raise the loader and it sprung a huge leak..blew a seal out where the 2 control levers are that raise or lower the loader and move bucket up and down.,..so I shut the tractor off and the loader came down slowly.. I did not want to work on it where it had messed up because it was far away from all my tools so I cranked the engine up and up went the loader maxed out and I drove it to the designated work area..turned engine off and loader came down. I have replaced the blown out seal and filled the hydraulic fluid back up and went I start the engine the loader will not raise any now..but the bucket will move...I think something happened to the 2 large hydraulic welded cylinders that raise the loader up but there are no leaks...now this Ford 4000 has a separate pump on the front that runs when the engines cranked but I think its working right...any ideas anybody ?? I need my tractor for work on our property but I don't know what to do now and live out in the boonies.
Did you try switching the bucket lines with the loader arm lines like in this video to see if the problem switches (arms raise but bucket doesn’t tilt) so you can know if the valve is the problem? My guess is there’s something broken inside the valve.
i did my quarterly drift test last week, and found my sinking is out of spec, this was an alternative to how i tested my cylinders that took minutes. what i did was remove the feed from the cylinder and test if fluid was lost. mine all checked good and now i'm off to fix the control mechanism
I am an old, and I mean old, hydraulic and auto mechanic. Think about a shock absorber on a car or truck. You have a cylinder, a piston, a rod, and oil. The piston has a hole in it but the piston is still required to move from one end of the barrel to the other without loosing or replacing any of the oil. I am guessing that this is similar.
Your not accounting for the cylinder rod volume. even if you remove the cylinder seals all together and cap the hose connections the rod will not move in or out. As the rod, in your case, is pulling out of the cylinder hydraulic fluid or outside air must be replacing the space the rod was taking up. I think you have a leak somewhere that will seal under pressure but leak air in when under a vacuum.
@@bhstor0 I think it’s the piston seal that’s passing and one or two quick connections are leaking air into the system. Quick connects can hold a lot of positive pressure in but when under vacuum they tend to leak. There just not designed to seal under a vacuum. The hydraulic pressure helps them seal.
Was the ONLY sign drooping over time? I have a problem that as the tractor warms up, the loader looses its power, barely lifts a bucket of snow, everything else seems fine, Hydrostatic runs fine, power steering is fine, and backhoe is fine. I tried to switch the hoses around, to see if that helped but still no power to lift, the bucket will drop over time, maybe 1/2 hr or so.
Ben, your hydrostatic, power steering, & backhoe run off of different circuits. Your steering actually get status fixed first then the excess is bled off back into the tank. Not completely sure but the backhoe works off power beyond. My thinking is that u have a valve issue.
My first John Deere tractor did this and the JD service said valves needed replacing. I didn’t bother with it because it only leaked when off. I bought a brand new JD 4120 later on and it has leaked like this since new. JD service said it was fine that all JD tractors did this so I haven’t done anything to it. Now I know it’s not supposed to do this and it makes me mad because they could have fixed it under warranty 10 years ago. Oh well I recon
That’s the main thing about owning a JD, the quality of the dealership. IF you have a bad dealership you are at their mercy and they will give almost any excuse to keep from doing warranty work. IF you have a quality dealership they can turn out to be a businesses relationship that can last for generations. My family will trailer our equipment round trip over 100 miles to the dealership where we feel our business is appreciated.
Now lets see if I got this right, when you switch hoses, tilt with lift, then to make loader lift you move the valve control lever in the bucket tilt position then the bucket lifts or lowers....... In your case when motor was shut off for a while with the hoses switch the bucket still lowed, but if it didn't then that would mean the by-pass leak is in the valve control body. Did I get this school lesson right? if not thanks for trying ........
If the problem switches, then the leaking is likely happening in the valve control body. For example, in this video if the loader arms drifted down when tractor was powered off, that means the leaking is likely in the valve.
1. Assume the valve is leaking internally, what will be the symptom? 2. Assume that the loader and the bucket cylinder is leaking internally, what will be the symptom? 3. Assume the valve control, the bucket, and the loader, are all leaking internally, what will be the symptom? Thank you. Also my loader bucket is jerky, plus the loader goes down and so the PTO part. I have to take my foot off the clutch all the way for the transmission to kick in. I think it needs timing adjusted and so does the carburetor. So does the brakes..
Those wondering why drift matters, be aware that fluid under pressure, that is leaking past a seal, will further erode that seal and possibly the metal that holds it in place. In other words, bad goes to wor$e.
Reminded me of a Sven and ole joke. Sven had a date that went well. The night progressed towards the bedroom and she said, “c Allis?”. Sven said “ no I am an H Farmall man.
That's a good trick, but what's the big deal? I'd be very impressed if I found anything but a brand new tractor that didn't move at all after 4 hours or so. Set it down when it's going to be parked for 4 hours.
It's not that big of an Issue now but who knows in a year the seal could completely go out and the bucket can drop instantly under use. Better to diagnose it and get it fixed now than when it's an emergency repair
Yeah that’s any easy indication for me. Cylinders not staying up means you have cylinder leaking fluid through their seals. I wish I knew why my hydraulics are moving slowly and why my front loader won’t move at all. I completely drain my hydraulics, I put 2 new filters on it, rebuilt pressure control valve, replaced hydraulic bypass valve, removed and cleaned the internal screen and no dice. At max rpm I get about 1000-1200 psi. System pressure is responsive to rpm change and when I turn steering wheel and backhoe the system pressure drops. Anyone got my fix?
Hey Chris, there's a metal screen located next to the base of the filter that is probably plugged. Many tractors have a screen along with filters. My J.D. 750 & 310 c do. On Y.T. check out " Quick Nick Garage " Channel and he has a great video showing that set up on his 400 - 410, only 6 min. long. Good luck.
******simple and brilliant deduction!!****** Thanks for takin the time to make this video!
You’re welcome! Thanks for watching!
Coming from working on cars and never touching tractors before in my life, I never would have thought about doing this.
This helped me figure out the loader issue my father-in-law's loader (Future winter me thanks you again)
Glad i stumbled across the video, slow and clear directions. Greatly Appreciated!!
Thanks for the feedback! Glad the video was helpful.
Awesome Tutorial, Young Lady! Your son is doing great work learning to work the equipment and keep the homestead up!!
This was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks
What a great idea to test bucket drift vs control valve problems. Thank you
I am a lady tractor driver too! Thank you for this video.
Super awesome job explaining everything! Thank you!!
Hey, good job! Very impressive for entry level troubleshooting of tractor hydraulics. Thank you! Mike :.)
You’re welcome! Thanks for the feedback! 😀
Great video! Clever and thorough!
Thanks for the feedback!
Well done. Saved me an hour at least!
I called that before any of the tests. I just rebuilt my bucket cylinders. They were leaking slightly out of the front so I was pretty sure the gaskets (o-rings) were screwed up inside too.
Thank you so much for this! I have to tell you how refreshing and wonderful it is to find a woman's voice and capable guidance here among the tractor trouble-shooting videos. I greatly enjoy the step-by-step reasoning through the problem, arrival at the extremely clever solution, and the notable lack of "man-splaining" . Bravo! You rock!
Thanks for the positive feedback Katy!
Katy I found your womansplaining of why this was a good video to be very demeaning and hurtful to women. There is no reason to mention “capable guidance” just because she is a woman, and your use of the term “refreshing” seems as if women do not normally give capable guidance. We all know why this was a good video, but your listing of each step is highly patronizing to this and the many other women DIYers with RUclips channels.
Genius diagnostic tip! Thank you!
You’re welcome!
@@shortlinepartsllc6795 15 minutes later... I now know that I have bad cylinders on a brand new tractor.
Great video very informative!
Thanks Jerry!
so helpful and smart idea
Thank you for, the good troubleshooting methods and options... Much appreciated... I have a New Holland compact tractor that is really slow at the bucket arms. I added my forks and it seems I need even more RPM's to lift. The bucket front/ back tilt work fine. Tnx again! ~ D
This was really helpful, Thanks!
Magnus - thanks for the feedback! Glad the video helped.
Thank you so much
Nice, I had this exact problem a year ago and figured it wasn’t to bad… now I have this exact problem and it’s most definitely bad(my bucket tilts forward as fast as it would if I was tilting it under pressure)… I was just going to throw parts at it like normal, but I think I’ll try this first, thanks!
Jeremy, thanks for your note. Did you get a chance to try this diagnostic test out on your equipment? Just curious if it helped you figure out the root cause of your drifting bucket.
This is great info to know, however, if it droops over a period of several hours I don't see how this is a problem. Older tractors wear out overtime and as long as it is not drooping while working the tractor I don't find any harm.
I have a bucket that “droops” like this and it has caused potential hazards. When under load it goes much faster and then it re-pressurizes and jolts. It could drop its load suddenly if the balance was too far forward. Then one time I was lifting an outboard for a friend. He had to run to his house and get a forgotten part real quick. I left it suspended like I had many times while I ran inside to get something. When I came back out the bucket had drooped enough so that the straps slid off the forks and the outboard dropped. No good.
Great video! Thanks! I am going to run this test tomorrow!!
It'll get worse, gets to the point where it droops every few seconds under load.
Any idea on how to fix I replaced the control valves made it better still no luck
Good info. On my MF both sets leak but I don’t use it commercially like you do. Just a wood getter up here in the BR mountains. If it gets worse though I’m sure I’ll have to correct it. Thanks for sharing
Great video! Thanks!
a bypassing cylinder or valve creates heat ..... operate the equipment then do a thermal scan .... the component that is the hottest is "leaking"
Well done, thank you for sharing!
Thanks for your kind note Duane!
Great tutorial.
Thanks for your note! :-)
wow Now I get it!! It's my cylinders.
Nice work!
Thanks!
Good tip!
Thanks for the feedback!
If the piston rod has retracted , the equivalent volume of oil had come out externally ( from cylinder if both piston and gland seals are demaged or from demages hoses ) or internally through directional valve.
correct, oil has to be removed from the cylinder for the piston and rod to move. probably back to the tank trough the directional valves
Great information excellent 👍 thanks for sharing
Thanks for the positive feedback! 😇
GREAT video!!
Awesome video !! Thank you
Thanks for the note! :-)
It’s very to find if cylinder piston leaking internal.
Good idea, but the final conclusion is not correct. Piston seal leak will not cause drift. This test proofs there is a leak on the path out from the piston end - the pipe at the ass end of the cylinder, the one you didn`t remove and check.
Great explanation. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
I was wondering if you could perform a reverse test. Prolonged resting with upward force on the bucket to see if the Pistons leak fluid. Seems to me they are sucking air in either around the seals of the Piston or like someone else said the quick connects which are designed to hold pressure. Great video though.
Last week I had cut a large tree trunk that had fallen over..some of the pieces were maybe 350-500 lbs.. I had cut one in half and fired my Ford 4000 up and the loader went straight up without me even moving the lever to raise the loader and it sprung a huge leak..blew a seal out where the 2 control levers are that raise or lower the loader and move bucket up and down.,..so I shut the tractor off and the loader came down slowly.. I did not want to work on it where it had messed up because it was far away from all my tools so I cranked the engine up and up went the loader maxed out and I drove it to the designated work area..turned engine off and loader came down.
I have replaced the blown out seal and filled the hydraulic fluid back up and went I start the engine the loader will not raise any now..but the bucket will move...I think something happened to the 2 large hydraulic welded cylinders that raise the loader up but there are no leaks...now this Ford 4000 has a separate pump on the front that runs when the engines cranked but I think its working right...any ideas anybody ?? I need my tractor for work on our property but I don't know what to do now and live out in the boonies.
Did you try switching the bucket lines with the loader arm lines like in this video to see if the problem switches (arms raise but bucket doesn’t tilt) so you can know if the valve is the problem? My guess is there’s something broken inside the valve.
i did my quarterly drift test last week, and found my sinking is out of spec, this was an alternative to how i tested my cylinders that took minutes.
what i did was remove the feed from the cylinder and test if fluid was lost. mine all checked good and now i'm off to fix the control mechanism
Thanks for the feedback!
I always leave it lowered
Just unhook the hoses. If cylinders extend or retract rebuild them. Keep it simple.
Yes, very simple
Far Out. Your clock looked like a scene from The Twilight Zone.
I don't think cylinder drift can be caused by leaking cylinder seals due to one side of the piston having lower volume than the other.
I am an old, and I mean old, hydraulic and auto mechanic. Think about a shock absorber on a car or truck. You have a cylinder, a piston, a rod, and oil. The piston has a hole in it but the piston is still required to move from one end of the barrel to the other without loosing or replacing any of the oil.
I am guessing that this is similar.
What if my loader lift and my bucket are drifting ?
Just unhook the hoses. If cylinders extend or retract rebuild them. Keep it simple.
Your not accounting for the cylinder rod volume. even if you remove the cylinder seals all together and cap the hose connections the rod will not move in or out. As the rod, in your case, is pulling out of the cylinder hydraulic fluid or outside air must be replacing the space the rod was taking up. I think you have a leak somewhere that will seal under pressure but leak air in when under a vacuum.
True, as the rod extends the non rod side of the cylinder has to be pulling fluid from somewhere due to the increase in volume.
@@bhstor0 I think it’s the piston seal that’s passing and one or two quick connections are leaking air into the system. Quick connects can hold a lot of positive pressure in but when under vacuum they tend to leak. There just not designed to seal under a vacuum. The hydraulic pressure helps them seal.
Was the ONLY sign drooping over time? I have a problem that as the tractor warms up, the loader looses its power, barely lifts a bucket of snow, everything else seems fine, Hydrostatic runs fine, power steering is fine, and backhoe is fine. I tried to switch the hoses around, to see if that helped but still no power to lift, the bucket will drop over time, maybe 1/2 hr or so.
It sounds like you narrowed down the problem to the cylinders (your valve sounds like it's working right).
Ben, your hydrostatic, power steering, & backhoe run off of different circuits. Your steering actually get status fixed first then the excess is bled off back into the tank. Not completely sure but the backhoe works off power beyond. My thinking is that u have a valve issue.
My first John Deere tractor did this and the JD service said valves needed replacing. I didn’t bother with it because it only leaked when off.
I bought a brand new JD 4120 later on and it has leaked like this since new. JD service said it was fine that all JD tractors did this so I haven’t done anything to it.
Now I know it’s not supposed to do this and it makes me mad because they could have fixed it under warranty 10 years ago.
Oh well I recon
That’s the main thing about owning a JD, the quality of the dealership.
IF you have a bad dealership you are at their mercy and they will give almost any excuse to keep from doing warranty work. IF you have a quality dealership they can turn out to be a businesses relationship that can last for generations.
My family will trailer our equipment round trip over 100 miles to the dealership where we feel our business is appreciated.
Genius
Now lets see if I got this right, when you switch hoses, tilt with lift, then to make loader lift you move the valve control lever in the bucket tilt position then the bucket lifts or lowers....... In your case when motor was shut off for a while with the hoses switch the bucket still lowed, but if it didn't then that would mean the by-pass leak is in the valve control body. Did I get this school lesson right? if not thanks for trying ........
If the problem switches, then the leaking is likely happening in the valve control body. For example, in this video if the loader arms drifted down when tractor was powered off, that means the leaking is likely in the valve.
Just wondering if the valve that you're refering to is a flow divider valve or a flow directional valve or some othe type of valve? Thanks
It’s a directional valve
1. Assume the valve is leaking internally, what will be the symptom?
2. Assume that the loader and the bucket cylinder is leaking internally, what will be the symptom?
3. Assume the valve control, the bucket, and the loader, are all leaking internally, what will be the symptom?
Thank you.
Also my loader bucket is jerky, plus the loader goes down and so the PTO part.
I have to take my foot off the clutch all the way for the transmission to kick in.
I think it needs timing adjusted and so does the carburetor.
So does the brakes..
My loader won't move up or down. Can anyone help
Good trouble shooting tip
Thanks!
Those wondering why drift matters, be aware that fluid under pressure, that is leaking past a seal, will further erode that seal and possibly the metal that holds it in place. In other words, bad goes to wor$e.
Reminded me of a Sven and ole joke. Sven had a date that went well. The night progressed towards the bedroom and she said, “c Allis?”. Sven said “ no I am an H Farmall man.
That's a good trick, but what's the big deal? I'd be very impressed if I found anything but a brand new tractor that didn't move at all after 4 hours or so. Set it down when it's going to be parked for 4 hours.
It's not that big of an Issue now but who knows in a year the seal could completely go out and the bucket can drop instantly under use. Better to diagnose it and get it fixed now than when it's an emergency repair
And next hoist master I am getting Safety Shoes
Yeah that’s any easy indication for me. Cylinders not staying up means you have cylinder leaking fluid through their seals. I wish I knew why my hydraulics are moving slowly and why my front loader won’t move at all. I completely drain my hydraulics, I put 2 new filters on it, rebuilt pressure control valve, replaced hydraulic bypass valve, removed and cleaned the internal screen and no dice. At max rpm I get about 1000-1200 psi. System pressure is responsive to rpm change and when I turn steering wheel and backhoe the system pressure drops. Anyone got my fix?
Chris - what tractor do you have?
@@shortlinepartsllc6795 Sounds like a pump problem to me
410 Backhoe
Brand new pump.
Hey Chris, there's a metal screen located next to the base of the filter that is probably plugged. Many tractors have a screen along with filters. My J.D. 750 & 310 c do. On Y.T. check out " Quick Nick Garage " Channel and he has a great video showing that set up on his 400 - 410, only 6 min. long. Good luck.