to celebrate this checkmate allow me to present to you this chess copypasta applied to umineko: eva-beatrice: Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all! I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed... battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring. Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Look up ra30o7 on reddit
@@queueq9388 I find that kinda wrong. 5:40 ... I think Eva-beatrice should say all 15 mentioned not all 15 PEOPLE mentioned because Shannon and kanon are 1 person. Idk. Edit: ah wait 15 people Vs 15 humans I think ok but eh Kinzo counts as a human/person even though e's dead? Eh
Not really. Pretty sure multiple personalities could be denied in red. SPOILER.... The real culprit only has a single personality just split into multiple parts. They also share the same body and share a single name which they were given at birth which should be enough to deny mulitple personalities. Changing cloths and putting on fake voices does not by itself constitute a new personality.
@@backseatgaming9087 No it couldn't because the culprit treats those people as people. Spoilers It is the separation between people and human body FEATHERINE's human avatar, Tohya Hachijo, discusses. The culprit wants them to exist as separate people. It is pattern of behavior. For example, when Maria runs into BEATRICE, and recieves the letter in one, to anyone watching with the Anti magic toxin, it would appear Kanon changed behavior, but still looked like Kanon. To the culprit, those people have entire worlds and backstories. In BEATRICE's heart, these people exist, and the story treats it as such.
Eva-Beatrice's red statements here are extremely beautiful when you think about it. This is for all you people who finished the novels of course. She goes on to say with the red that no "living beings" other than humans are involved, and that the culprit (who is human) has the ability to use magic. This alludes us into thinking that the concept of a witch automatically refers to a being with a physical body (like a human being) and hence effectively holds us back from reaching the ShKanontrice theory.
to celebrate the best red truth battle allow me to present to you this chess copypasta applied to umineko: eva-beatrice: Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all! I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed... battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring. Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Look up ra30o7 on reddit
Basically in case anyone doesn't understand how Evatrice's red web of truth still validates the Yasu/Shkanontrice theory, here's how. Spoilers. Evatrice says "no more than 18 humans", so even though she names 18, the truth is there are LESS than 18 because Shannon, Kanon, and Yasu are all the same. Shkanontrice are ONE PERSON. Evatrice names Shannon and Kanon as dead, but not Yasu--the personas of Shannon and Kanon have been discarded. When Evatrice declares "This is all 18 people!" after naming three who are alive, she doesn't use the red to qualify that statement. Yasu is still alive and killing people, but Evatrice left them out and Battler doesn't even know who Yasu is so there's no way to call Evatrice out. Additionally, by stating outright, even without the red, that there are only 18 people, it dissuades Battler from arguing there are less than 18. And after all, he has no idea there even could be.
You can make this theory work even without Yasu. Just assuming that one of the 15 (dead) dies simultaneously with nanjo. Eva never specifies when everyone dies, just that they are dead at the end.
@@poopenundfarten902hroughout the novel, especially in chapter 6 I believe, it drills into your head that people are recognized more by their personality than by their bodies. For example, if your personality did an extreme change from an animal loving peaceful soul to a puppy kicking serial killer, people who knew you well would say that isn’t you, that you are possessed by something or lost your mind (in either case saying that the previous you is lost or not in control). Even though the body stays constant, it is the mind, or personality, that people consider a “person.” So if you swap personalities, mannerisms, motions, clothing, etc. you could appear as an entirely different person to someone else. Edit: But even then, the personality doesn’t count towards the human count. This is how Beatrice manipulates the numbers. She says “NO MORE than 18” instead of 18, and lowers the number by 1 when Kinzo is revealed to be dead. It just lets her count “death of personality” as a death, but doesn’t let her count them as a full human body death.
i remeber this was the prevelant theory way back, but ryukishi actually addressed that and added another red truth in the manga version that says all 15 were dead when nanjo was killed
Man, this is a harsh scene in hindsight. If Battler had just developed that point at about 7:40 a bit further, he could have solved the whole thing earlier and EP5 and EP6 would never have had to happen and we would have a happy ending I'm crying now.
Spoiler 50/50 Remember that "Claire" would be our original Beato, right? Our Beato was comforted that someone understood her and that Batora understood her even though she could not see it.@@globoxo9901
Blue Truth: The culprit and Doctor Nanjo could have had a gunfight with each other. The culprit intended to kill Doctor Nanjo, but he also had a gun to fight back. Both shot at each other, and Doctor Nanjo managed to kill the culprit in one shot while the culprit only managed to fatally injure Doctor Nanjo. However, Doctor Nanjo dies shortly afterward due to severe blood loss. Other scenarios is possible. One other example would be like Doctor Nanjo shooting the culprit dead but the culprit managed to pull the trigger as well to shoot Doctor Nanjo. The order of death would be the culprit first and finally Doctor Nanjo, the last victim. Hence a theory where one of the dead who is the culprit is possible. The theory does not contradict the red truth where the culprit is 1) A human 2) Killed Doctor Nanjo with a weapon facing point-blank 3) Is NOT the 19th person but one of the 18th
Your theory holds but the main point here is the 'who dunnit'. That's what has battler stumped. None of the named survivors have the ability to commit the murder.
Ryan Elf Very well done ! It is said in *red* that doctor Nanjo was killed point-blank the culprit was in front of him and he was murdered by someone else's gun neither trap or these awful things. The culprit at the end in 3th game is EVA, she becomes the head and witch of the family because she found the gold and solved the epitaph. That's why she kills Battler in the end " It took long for you to notice Battler-kun " *ShotsBattler* It means that right after Nanjo dies soo does Battler and the others, just Eva survives because in the end she wants all the gold to herself, Mamon of Greed "kills" her in the scene when Eva-Beatrice appears in front of Ange after Kasumi dies. Eva sinned for greed desiring the gold and fullfiling it was a way for her to kill her enemies literally, especially Krauss and her dad that did not praised her. Unfortunally she is ALWAYS regreting the curse of the gold and had to sacrifice her own son. She wanted the gold but she did not want her son to die then she ends up in regret. Probably the one who shot Nanjo in fact died right after he killed the doctor it was half-dead mostly like losing alot of blood and walking in difficulty duo to wounds. It is very simple any of the survivors killed Nanjo neither Eva did it means that there is some of the other person between the 14 people that are dead that it is still alive ( half dead but in the process of dying and dies right after killing Nanjo ) - Remember one thing Kinzo is always dead by at the start of all games it means that there is 17 people alive but Kinzo death let us here with 13 possible humans that could have killed Nanjo, that came back from the death scenario or were hidden to kill the doctor that is helping the culprit Beatrice ! remember Nanjo received alot of money because he had a very sick grandson or something like he needed the money and Ange finds out the same money with Kumasawa's son that were received 1 day before the crimes i think it was in 3th October 86 that the letters were sent by Beatrice aka 'Culprit' ) people that "died" in Battler's perspective but actually 1 was not dead atleast and were involved in the crime and decided to shot Nanjo for X reason i think it is because of perfoming the epitaph or revenge( my favorite theory maybe it has something to do with shannon's death ). I do not want to spoiler more ! but if you stop everything and start using logic all of the story makes alot of sense. Even in Maria and Anges chapters it is incredible sad and fascinating showing us the true meaning of magic in the story it is a trick an illusion that's what all the witches does in the whole story. Ange herself has one chapter near the end of 4h arc called 'Magic' when she defeats Kasumi-chan. Glad that she had Amakusa to help her out :P Also poiting out Nanjo was not carrying a gun he was shocked when he found the other culprit and was shot right after. He is faking autopsies remember that's why he is the "Doctor" and checking the bodies of the dead ones he is very important in order to Beatrice exist in the island, in another words he accepted the money from the culprit ( this person had to go to a bank and get alot of money to send to their home adress - Kumasawa and Nanjo -before 4th October 86 ) he helped the culprit to perform the murders but ends up dead :' ( i would not say that killing people for money is good like this.
Yasu has two keys because we consider that Shannon and Kanon are two servants. Some people of the Ushiromiya accepted the trick before the beginning of the story. The count is different for the 17 or 18 people. Erika counts the corpses so only Yasu. Battler counts the "personalities" of the game : Shannon-Kanon. And the story accepts the two views (8th game). The trick about the video is : the name. Kanon-Shannon are useless at this part of the story and Yasu "killed" them. Yasu killed Nanjo.
Right, Eva-Beatrice started really good with saying "No life forms other than HUMANS have any connection to the game" (4:53). She denied witches with the red truth, completly breaking the point of the whole game, but Battler didn't notice that. Battler, you're a horrible detective. Eva-Beatrice, you are a horrible Witch.
lorenzo romano Yeah like 1nikini said, the point was that he had to prove it was carried out without magic, and not that it was carried out by a human. So a human who can use magic would be a witch, but still considered a human. As long as there is an impossibility that Battler has to explain using logic (In this case it was the fact that the murder was commited when apparently everyone who could have done it was dead) Then the witch will win.
***** "So a *human who can use magic* would be a *witch*, but still *considered a human*. Can you explain this? Because it seems contradictory. Witches are humans that made a pact with a demon to get magic. Humans are humans (I don't know how to define that). They are both different things...unless you tried to say something else.
lorenzo romano A woman and a man are inherently different, but they are both still humans. I don't see why a witch would be different, they're not an entirely different species, they're just a human who can use magic.
***** "They're not an entirely different species". Yes, they have a lot of common, but they are a different specie. Werewolves are similar to humans, yet they are "beasts". Vampires are similar to humans, yet they are "undead", and so on.. I mean, we could start a discussion of why a Witch is/isn't a human, but in the end, it just depends on how you see it. For me, a Witch is a witch, not a human, manily because they "gave up their humanity" to demons in exchange for magic (Just to be clear, I don't belive in all these things)
Superhero18 The deaths weren't listed in order and they were said after Nanjo's dead, so it was possible for George to kill Nanjo and then suicide, and, for the blue that I read before, Kanon and Shannon are different identities and marked as different people by the red truth, besides, the Umineko's manga has now confirmed ShKanonTrice's theory.
Her list appeared in Red, and she had said "Nanjo is dead" at the very last moment. Meaning that all of the other victims deaths were confirmed before Nanjo's death. If their deaths were confirmed as above, they couldn't have created a false corpse, etc.
@@nicbentulan In the question arcs? I mean the Yasu truth, not just the truth about a murder. He did a pretty good job with the Eva murders, for example, but about Yasu?
@@nicbentulan I guess during the "Kanon killed Jessica", for example... But that was basically circumstantial. I don't remember any other scene where he talked about the possibility of the culprit having several personas, or something about the big twist.
@@globoxo9901 what about on the cliff with beatrice in episode 13? battler asked 'are you gonna say that you're one of the 18 in disguise or something?!' wow what if beatrice answered that?
EVA never declared in Red "when" any of the people on the Island actually died, just that they were dead. Beato stated in Red earlier in the game that Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, Kumasawa, Rosa, Maria, and Kyrie were dead. Anyone else could have gotten into an altercation with Nanjo, suffer a fatal wound before killing him, and only manage to blind Jessica before dying from their own wounds. This way, EVA's Red Truth holds, and the culprit is someone other than Eva/Jessica/Battler, no?
Witches don't count as humans - see the statements about 17/18 people on the island. So yeah, EVA basically shot herself in the foot with that. Too bad Battler didn't catch it.
Spoilers for end of the game Its so fucked looking back at this scene and realizing that in 5:42, after mentioning everyone who is dead, she says "This is all 18 people" but its NOT in red
"No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game." By saying that she just admitted that nor demons nor witches have anything to do with the game, ergo there is no magic involved. She simply just said "This case could be commited by human" in red truth. She should lose at this point.
However,she states that human could have used magic in white. What she seems to be stating is the human had to use magic to commit the murders, and if magic can be use in this game, then the witch can exist in game as "human who does magic".
But later it's clarified that human includes humans who can use magic? And the clarification isn't in red but I think it's ok. Like definition of closed room isn't in red because it's a definition not a proposition. And even if it denies magic then that still doesn't explain how the murder was carried out?
Knox 2 basically says a witch can't be the culprit since it's super natural. Another personality of Eva exists. Although Eva did not commit the murders herself, the "witch" or "other self" inside her took over and committed the murders. A shotgun went off early and blinded Jessica, and Nanjo was killed by the "other Eva". There were hints that she was inside of her and she did take over a few times so the culprit is the "other Eva" or technically Eva herself indirectly.
@@YoshiyaKanon my gift to you: eva-beatrice: Are you kidding ??? What the ** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all! I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed... battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring. Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Source ra30o7
And the craziest part is that this argument would probably work. It's a devil's proof, she can't deny that such machine might've existed in the island and Dlanor wasn't added in the game yet to counter that :v (Ok, actually this wouldn't work because she said in red that Nanjo was killed by another person ,_,)
@@lovkarts Do you know Gasai Wesley So Tigran L Petrosian Hans Niemann Magnus Carlsen? eva-beatrice: Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all! I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed... battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring. Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Look up ra30o7 on reddit Or now: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is a proctologist.
Battler was actually quite close to nailing down the culprit when he mentioned,'one person with different personalities', but then he was stupid and used Jessica as a possible culprit, even though she was blinded by Eva. Seriously, I'm just going to lay it down, right here and right now;'Battler is one of THE MOST ANNOYING protagonists to have ever existed." Even Bern and Lambda thought he was stupid, because he couldn't figure out who the culprit was.
I think it's kind of interesting that Battler's so unaware of what's really going on. He's THE protagonist, but he isn't the person we're always rooting for, let alone the person's eyes we always see through. Sure, only detectives see the truth in these games, but there's so much more than just the singular truth of what actually happened, which is the entirety of what this whole series explains over the course of like 200 hours of story. Battler being sort of ignorant of the game at hand and having brain fart moments really means the other characters get time to shine, both by helping him and by being their own amazing people. I mean, imagine if he was actually the one "winning" at this whole mystery/fantasy mindfuck fever dream. I get it, he can be excessively dumb at times, but I think that just adds to his character and the overall message of Umineko. Also, you gotta remember that hindsight is 20/20. He may be missing the mark by a tiny sliver here, but sometimes that just happens to people. He doesn't have any magic ~yet~ and he's making mistakes. That makes him decently relatable to me.
@ULTIMATE GOKU It all came together after the red truth in Natsuhi's head, "I never told anyone about liking fall except Shannon." Until that, the fall card could have been a random guess, but the red truth emphasizes the importance. Also, The orphanage is brought up as the place furniture comes from, and correlated with the baby from 19 years ago. Also, that person is a man. (Kanon) The servants, Natsuhi, Krauss, Genji, and Nanjo are the only ones who know for sure Kinzo is dead. Of those, only Shannon or Kanon are close enough in age to be the person on the phone. Finally, in episode 4,Shannon and Kanon reveal their knowledge of past games. The only other characters who do that is BEATRICE and Kinzo, a illusion who is already dead. Once you find out Kinzo is weird, Kanon and Shannon become really weird.
@ULTIMATE GOKU Yeah. There is a big hint in Epispde 3. They bring up 6 years ago. Battler says he barely remember, and then Shannon says she remembers it like it was yesterday (ouch). She then says (more ouch). Then, in Episode 4, we gets BEATRICE's and the sin from years ago.
[Red]It means that if everyone else is confirmed to be dead, then the possibility of a false corpse doesn't exist. [Red] Also, there's this: To create a false corpse, there would've had to been time before hand. Also, I doubt various suspects are all carrying false corpses. [Red]What we know is that in all four games, all suspects before the murders originally were grouped. And mostly tried to stay that way.
You know what I think? /Blue Truth: The Shannon and Kanon Eva-Beatrice are different people from the actual game itself. She didn't say in the red truth that it was all 18 people in this game, and instead in the white text. Therefore, my theory is that she shouted out two random people that were named Shannon and Kanon, and that they were dead long before the Shannon and Kanon of this game. This also applies to any other person too.
If we talk about symbolism, Battler has been called the White King and he wears the White Cross (The cross being the Kings trademark in Chess). Maria wears the Black Cross. When the Epitaph was solved, look who dies next, Maria and Rosa who weren't even staked being the sole people of everyone who weren't. Maria being the Black King represents in the results.
Spiders do actually count as animals, so that can't work. She also stated that it was a direct form of murder, so I don't believe that poisoning would answer it. As Eva-Beatrice explained, there were only three people alive at the time of Nanjo's murder, and each had a perfect alibi; Eva was under constant supervision from Battler, Battler was watching Eva, and Jessica was blinded and could not commit the murder.
My idea: Somebody faked their death and killed Nanjo, then either commited suicide or died accidentally. Alternatively, Nanjo is the culprit, and one of his victims survived being attacked by him, and they killed Nanjo before bleeding out. Or rather, Nanjo and the person faking their death had a standoff and they both died.
EP 1: Maria and Battler are among the last. EP 2: Maria and Battler are among the last. EP 3: Epitaph is solved, Maria and Rosa are killed the very next without being staked. EP 4: Maria and Battler are among the last. EP 5: Epitaph is solved. Maria and Rosa are in the first twilight, Stakes comment it was an Imposter. EP 6: Maria,Rosa AND Battler die, both 5 and 6 were suspended.
She never defined "Dead" It can be interpreted as they faked there death. She never said any of the "dead" took parts in the murder of nanjo. She never said the "dead" can't take part in the game anymore after "death" and she never said the "dead" don't exist on the game board after there "death" Therefore, anyone of the "dead" can perform the murder.
[Red] If we interpret Shannon and Kanon to be the same person, then someone on the list is not dead, mainly, George supposedly. [/red] Therefore this argument strongly supports George being an accomplice (like in Rosatrice) but needing Shannon and Kanon to be the same person (as in Shkanon.) Basically, Nanjo and George had a fight, but George didn't die. -Nanjo went to finish the deed -George then killed Nanjo and was killed by Eva -Battler was killed -Jessica died in the explosion -Eva escaped
Not aware of anything of anything after the anime. [Blue] The culprit is on of the 15 people mentioned in the red truth to be dead and Jessica was killed in an unrelated incident [Blue]
I got it!!!! We are speaking in the case that the murder was committed DURING the storm. What if after everything had finished Nanjo escaped and was murdered by someone OFF the island? This way he was definitely killed, but it was not by Eva, Jessica, or battler, and it does not break te 18 existing humans rule in te slightest. How is that?
True, the Devil's Rule. I had forgotten. [Red]However, going by the statements in Red the deaths were listed supposedly in order. If that's the case then Nanjo is the last one that died, and the other 14 have been confirmed to be dead.[/red] Meaning that Eva, Jessica and Battler were still the only 3 left on the island.
I have a theory. /Blue Truth: When EVA Beatrice was naming the life or death status of all 18 people, some of them may not have been dead in the physical sense. As in that once they began the murders, they could have abandoned the identity they had held before. From this, lest it be dis proven, we can assume that EVA Beatrice's red truth about the life or death status of all 18 people to be nullified. Thus we can assume that the true culprit could have used a false body or body double of their former selves in order to make everyone else believe them to be already dead and unable to commit the murders! end blue truth/
Lady Bernkastel the Witch of Miracles Blue/ It is possible that one of the victims in this incident had planned to kill from the very beginning of the story and gave the true culprit a slow acting poison in their food, such as a massive dose of Polonium which eventually killed the culprit by means of homicide, adding them to the "dead" list! End blue truth/
Knox8th It´s forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented! Red: The culprit did not kill him himself, by:unintentional intentional and coincidental means!
Your first idea contradicts Eva-Beatrice's Red Truth, where she said "... It was with a direct method of murder, not a trap." For the second one. It's close, but also contradicts with the rules of the Red Truths. You do not have to be a witch to cast a Red Truth, but you must be on the Witch Side in order to cast it. Also, if a Purple Declaration were to be revealed, it would still end up showing Eva-Beatrice as the culprit, if not no one. But, the culprit /can/ lie with a Purple Declaration.
Well then, [Red] The meta-world and the world of Rokkenjima share the same time periods [/red] So when do you think this conversation takes place? I can give you another hint [Red] It is not after Nanjo was murdered. [/red]
For the first 5 sure but what about the last 3 or the other millions of fragments across the sea of fragments. There is always a fragment of every situation. See how far this reasoning has taken the detective Furudo Erika. What do you think everybody?
ok ik everyone here knows the intended solution here is [beato's true nature] but 6:27 doesn't this one line fuck up the whole thing? was this an oversight? am i incompetent? she said ONLY jessica and nanjo were in the room when the murder happened. i don't see how [REDACTED] could slip through that wording??
Personally, everything would be explained if we take Jessica's conversation during Nanjo's murder in a literal sense. [SPOILER] It was Kanon, who faked his death and pretended to be a ghost. I always found it suspicious that he requested Jessica not to touch him as he was guiding her to hide from EVA-Beatrice. To explain the red truth with EVA about all 15 people mentioned being dead for real, all Kanon had to do was hide and commit suicide after guiding Jessica out.
The reason Kanon doesn't want Jessica to touch him is because spoilers: "he" is wearing Shannon's outfit because "he" was faking her physical death about four minutes ago.
Nobody said anything explicit about the order in who died. Eva-Beatrice said something about Nanjo being the last to die in white, but that doesn't matter.
[Red] Rosa knew about the bomb, she told Eva about it, and the hidden tunnel to Kuwadorian. [/red] This was shown in a mythical scene of Beatrice surrendering her powers to Evatrice. Just like in the 7th game, how Beato revealed the truth to the siblings. Even in the TIPS it tells us that she survived, even if she did get hit by the bomb, she still survived. She then wrote the truth in her diary, and on her deathbed, gave the headship and ring to Ange, which explains how Ange has the ring after.
I don't think it does EXCEPT for the thing at 5:40 ... I think Eva-beatrice should say all 15 not all 15 people because Shannon and kanon are 1 person. Idk.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 I don't think it does EXCEPT for the thing at 5:40 ... I think Eva-beatrice should say all 15 not all 15 people because Shannon and kanon are 1 person. Idk.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 I already know that but in this case they Kanon and Shannon should still count as 2 persons even if portrayed by 1 person. What's the harm in saying just 15 instead of 15 people? I think it avoids ambiguity and still does the same brilliant trick.
Great Lady Lambda-sama! **Darts eyes** Certainly, you're right. **Fiddles fingers** She never specifies when they were the only three left. [Blue]However, the moment when only three Humans could have been present on the island is when Nanjo died. Furthermore, a popular theory of fake drugs or fake corpses had been denied by Knox's rules which say that such a device needed to be inferred to. Which it never is.[/blue]. Don't misinterpret, Lambda-Sama. It is out of respect for you that I argue
So no faking deaths, at least on purpose. A body doesn't have to be a fake corpse to be identified as a corpse. The only thing left I have is that Nanjo is the culprit, and one of his victims was knocked out cold, but woke up later and confronted Nanjo. Either they both died in a standoff, or the victim died from wounds Nanjo gave him/her beforehand.
It is possible for battler to be the culprit as he was the Culprit with his family in Bernkastel's game. This can be defined as he was able to lie using Purple Statement meaning he was the culprit in that game. Also remember there is no Red truth that stops your from calling something else a corpse. See how far this reasoning has taken the detective Furudo Erika. What do you think everybody?
ok... i think i found my X... [blue]However, their deaths were not proclaimed in red at the instant Doctor Nanjo died. Strictly speaking, it was in the fight between me and EVA after Doctor Nanjo's corpse was found. In other words, if someone who was alive at the time that Doctor Nanjo was killed died before EVA proclaimed that death, you can sew right through that crack!...[blue] This gives me the possibility for X to apear, might change X from an unknown to one of the 15 dead in red...
Wrong. Rudolf pinned Belphegor and Evatrice/Rook and King. Pinning is a term of Chess meaning the piece with lower value has to guard/shield the piece of higher value if in between the piece that is pinning and the higher value one. Rook has less value than the King thus Belphegor had to guard Evatrice. Rooks are used in Heraldry as Charges on SHIELDS, where they refer to Meubles/Furniture. In Chess only 3 pieces can pin.The Rook,The Bishop and the Queen.
[Red] Eva planned to kill everyone on the island after she found the gold, however, she was not the only person with those plans [/red] So your second theory is correct. However, she did not kill Nanjo. Who died before Nanjo? George and Shannon, right? So depending on which theory you believe, Rosatrice or Shkanon, either George or Shannon could've murdered Nanjo. I can explain how one of them could've done it too.
is added in to the 18 people and so commited nanjo's murder, this person does not need to be in contact with the survivers and so does not break any of the red aliby truths about battler, eva or jessica. from this we can pin a murder X on nanjo's murder and so break this close room. person X could help with other murders however, they did not have contact with eva about nanjo's murder. [blue] Well this is my blue wedge on to this web of red truths this is but one small problem i see about this
However,she states that human could have used magic in white. What she seems to be stating is the human had to use magic to commit the murders, and if magic can be use in this game, then the witch can exist in game as "human who does magic".
But later it's clarified that human includes humans who can use magic? And the clarification isn't in red but I think it's ok. Like definition of closed room isn't in red because it's a definition not a proposition. And even if it denies magic then that still doesn't explain how the murder was carried out?
Mind if I take a quick shot at this? [BLUE] A trap can be a direct method to commit murder. Nanjo could have been killed by a mechanism that malfunctioned. A safeguard designed to incapacitate or stun someone which became lethal when it malfunctioned.[/BLUE] Well, does the first sentence contradict the red? I admit it was a bit weak.
Afraid the red blocks this. It's clearly stated that Nanjo is dead while Eva, Battler and Jessica are the only ones alive at this point. In other words, Nanjo is 100% definitely dead on the island. Battler actually solves this one in the 4th novel. Until you get that far, here's a hint; in this video, there's a line that Eva does not say in red that is very important. If you can figure out which line that is you have a huge hint.
If the word dead is in red, the people who is considering as dead is out of the game and cannot make any move. But there is a trick about the word dead for two people. Those two aren't really humans like the others ;)
When has 'person' ever been defined in red? Hold on. Let me do an analysis. [Red] Krauss' and Natsuhi's corpses were found around 6 pm. Nanjo died at 7 pm, after George's "corpse" was found. [/red] Now here is the important bit. [Red] Eva killed Battler at 11:15, 45m before the end![/red] We do not get to see 4 hours of game 3. If George killed Nanjo, Eva and Battler would be his highest priority. [Blue] Eva killed George before killing battler and escaping [/blue] I can explain Eva's Diary too.
I decline, because [Red] not only does present exist but so does past. [/red] The meta-world is made of magic. Eva's argument is made of magic as it is entirely composed of the red truth. Therefore, this conversation happened just before Nanjo was murdered. There is a 1/3 chance that it happened after Nanjo was indeed murdered. Because of Eva showing Battler himself and Eva calling Jessica's name in the hall. But that scene may have been fake, so the chances are even less.
Wait, hold on. Just noticed a blatant contradiction. Red: A weapon was readied, and he killed with it from point-blank range in front of him! The culprit appeared openly before Nanjo's eyes, and as they both looked at each other's faces, the culprit killed him. However, Eva-Beatrice claims it was her. With this truth, that can't be possible. After all, she just stated in red that the culprit was a 'he', therefore a male. Now what does this do? Nothing really, but it's contradictory.
The goal of the Witch's side is to prove that the occult-like murders were perpetrated by a witch, namely Beatrice. Muddying the waters and preventing the reader from considering that the culprit is among the humans present. She succeeded in doing that.
Battler could claim that it was someone's trained pet poisonous spider. And no, spider do not count as animals. They're on an island possibly filled with a few insects inside both houses.
However, there is a 3rd Person wearing a cross, that is Kyrie, wearing the Red one. Chess Pieces aren't just Black and White, back in the past, Red was used instead of Black. So for 7 and 8, you can consider Kyrie as the King. How that matters for EP 3? Simple, it explains why noone survived even if it's solved. Either Beatrice kills everyone when noone solves it, or Kyrie and Rudolf will when it's solved. Hence that Rudolf was the one who went looking for Maria and Rosa.
Me as Eva-Beatrice: [Red] Dr.Nanjo has never committed murder! We've already confirmed the deaths of the 15 family members! In other words, no one has faked their death..... [White] But then you might say Nanjo tried to assault X person and the situation escalated.. [Red] So I'll say that Dr. Nanjo never assaulted or tried to assault one of the 15 victims! [White] Accidental Death? [Red] Dr.Nanjo was deliberately murdered! And finally: There's no motive for anyone to murder Dr.Nanjo!
![[PS3 Patch][Voices] Umineko Epsiode II Ending Rosa and Maria's Escape](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tOFUj4AreaI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
multiple personalities...so close battler, so close...
Omg!!!
Eva-Beatrice's checkmate is my favorite part of the novel. So cruel, yet so flawless at the same time. Definitely the best female in the novel
to celebrate this checkmate allow me to present to you this chess copypasta applied to umineko:
eva-beatrice:
Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all!
I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed...
battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring.
Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Look up ra30o7 on reddit
Eva is no doubt the most complex and multi faceted Character in the novel
@@MiloKuroshiroI mean I feel like Beatrice takes the prize by necessity lol
Battler was so fucking close there.
Metatronflaren And EVA never denied multiple personalities with red, she only denied murder being impossible with Jessica's body. Really amazing.
@@damiannagel963 niiiiiiiiiice
amen!
Eva Beatrice red web of Truth is one of my favorite turns of the whole story along with "Kyrie cannot save Battler"
This is so fascinating to go back and watch after you know how the crime was carried out. Really well played Ryukashi07
hey beato cutie
Especially how close Battler is to solving everything
@Matheus Antonio Oliveira Cardoso Beatrice also suggest Nanjo is an accomplice in the second game, twice. Ryukashi07 busy laughing at our asses.
Lying to your audience really isn't a smart move.
@@andrewlebarbare He never lied. All of the clues were there.
05:40
Love how "that's all of the 18 people" is not in red
but the 15 people is tho
@@lixivia8350 15 people 'mentioned'. It means 15 names she mentioned, not the number of people. So sneakyyy
EXACTLY!!!
@@queueq9388 I find that kinda wrong. 5:40 ... I think Eva-beatrice should say all 15 mentioned not all 15 PEOPLE mentioned because Shannon and kanon are 1 person. Idk.
Edit: ah wait 15 people Vs 15 humans I think ok but eh Kinzo counts as a human/person even though e's dead? Eh
@@nicbentulan it's more of a translation issue
Battler was sooo close but Eva Beatrice is such an aggressive player
2:10 Eva's laugh gave me chills
07:39 ... OMG. If Battler had tried this theory with everyone ( he could have done it, but Eva Beatrice mindfucked him :-( ) then he would have won.
W .L Seriously, it's amazing how the author toyed with the idea of multiple personalities in our faces
Yeah, I just noticed that. Eva-Beatrice only said Jessica didn't kill anyone, she never denied the multiple personalities thing.
Not really. Pretty sure multiple personalities could be denied in red.
SPOILER....
The real culprit only has a single personality just split into multiple parts. They also share the same body and share a single name which they were given at birth which should be enough to deny mulitple personalities. Changing cloths and putting on fake voices does not by itself constitute a new personality.
@@backseatgaming9087 No it couldn't because the culprit treats those people as people. Spoilers
It is the separation between people and human body FEATHERINE's human avatar, Tohya Hachijo, discusses. The culprit wants them to exist as separate people. It is pattern of behavior.
For example, when Maria runs into BEATRICE, and recieves the letter in one, to anyone watching with the Anti magic toxin, it would appear Kanon changed behavior, but still looked like Kanon.
To the culprit, those people have entire worlds and backstories. In BEATRICE's heart, these people exist, and the story treats it as such.
Eva-Beatrice's red statements here are extremely beautiful when you think about it. This is for all you people who finished the novels of course. She goes on to say with the red that no "living beings" other than humans are involved, and that the culprit (who is human) has the ability to use magic. This alludes us into thinking that the concept of a witch automatically refers to a being with a physical body (like a human being) and hence effectively holds us back from reaching the ShKanontrice theory.
Rosatrice* good try there pal. You haven't reached the truth yet. Keep working though champ!
@@Diaryofaninja checkmate shkanontrice flat earthers
@@Diaryofaninja explain me the rosatrice theory please 🥺
@@purrrgatorium Easy. Rosa is Beatrice. Capiche?
@@Diaryofaninja how??
I loved this part. I got so caught up in EVA Beatrice's red web that I didn't manage to figure it out until Battler does in Episode 4.
Karifean omg Karifean, its me Bernkastelle from Rokkenjima lol😂
@@Lunarozen interesting. Bernkastelle is a girl's name while Bernkastel is a boy's name? hmmmm.....
My words can't express how much this scene is beautiful. IMO this was the best Red Truth battle.
to celebrate the best red truth battle allow me to present to you this chess copypasta applied to umineko:
eva-beatrice:
Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all!
I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed...
battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring.
Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Look up ra30o7 on reddit
This wasn't a battle she just straight up violated him
Damn... rewatching this part after knowing the true nature of Beatrice really hits differently
Basically in case anyone doesn't understand how Evatrice's red web of truth still validates the Yasu/Shkanontrice theory, here's how. Spoilers.
Evatrice says "no more than 18 humans", so even though she names 18, the truth is there are LESS than 18 because Shannon, Kanon, and Yasu are all the same. Shkanontrice are ONE PERSON.
Evatrice names Shannon and Kanon as dead, but not Yasu--the personas of Shannon and Kanon have been discarded.
When Evatrice declares "This is all 18 people!" after naming three who are alive, she doesn't use the red to qualify that statement. Yasu is still alive and killing people, but Evatrice left them out and Battler doesn't even know who Yasu is so there's no way to call Evatrice out. Additionally, by stating outright, even without the red, that there are only 18 people, it dissuades Battler from arguing there are less than 18. And after all, he has no idea there even could be.
You can make this theory work even without Yasu. Just assuming that one of the 15 (dead) dies simultaneously with nanjo. Eva never specifies when everyone dies, just that they are dead at the end.
She also doesn't discount Battler's alternate personality theory. She makes very clear that Jessica doesn't have an alternate personality instead.
the whole persona part is what rly confuses me abt the official explanation cause was it ever stated that different personalities count as humans??
@@poopenundfarten902hroughout the novel, especially in chapter 6 I believe, it drills into your head that people are recognized more by their personality than by their bodies.
For example, if your personality did an extreme change from an animal loving peaceful soul to a puppy kicking serial killer, people who knew you well would say that isn’t you, that you are possessed by something or lost your mind (in either case saying that the previous you is lost or not in control).
Even though the body stays constant, it is the mind, or personality, that people consider a “person.” So if you swap personalities, mannerisms, motions, clothing, etc. you could appear as an entirely different person to someone else.
Edit: But even then, the personality doesn’t count towards the human count. This is how Beatrice manipulates the numbers. She says “NO MORE than 18” instead of 18, and lowers the number by 1 when Kinzo is revealed to be dead. It just lets her count “death of personality” as a death, but doesn’t let her count them as a full human body death.
Idk why i love eva’s voice
Itō Miki (Eva's voice actress) is brilliant! That's why! :3
Yuri Ronoue her voice is so perfeeeect!
@@yurironoue5888 지수영 나 이제 집 도착했어요
@@yurironoue5888 TIL miku Ito Vs Miki Ito. Lol. I thought Eva Beatrice was the same voice as miku nakano.
Sure those people are dead but eva-beatrice didn't time stamp all of their deaths! So George could have killed nanjo then died afterwards
and dont forget about gohda Ò_Ó
i remeber this was the prevelant theory way back, but ryukishi actually addressed that and added another red truth in the manga version that says all 15 were dead when nanjo was killed
Man, this is a harsh scene in hindsight. If Battler had just developed that point at about 7:40 a bit further, he could have solved the whole thing earlier and EP5 and EP6 would never have had to happen and we would have a happy ending I'm crying now.
Almost as if that was the confession of Beato, and Battler never understood.
why wouldnt ep5 and ep6 have happened?? will it be explained later on?
it would simply end differently.
Bern's red from Episode 7:
*[This story has no happy ending.]*
The ending would be the same probably. The metaworld ending is good enough already, and the real world ending wouldn't change.
Spoiler
50/50 Remember that "Claire" would be our original Beato, right? Our Beato was comforted that someone understood her and that Batora understood her even though she could not see it.@@globoxo9901
Blue Truth: The culprit and Doctor Nanjo could have had a gunfight with each other. The culprit intended to kill Doctor Nanjo, but he also had a gun to fight back. Both shot at each other, and Doctor Nanjo managed to kill the culprit in one shot while the culprit only managed to fatally injure Doctor Nanjo. However, Doctor Nanjo dies shortly afterward due to severe blood loss. Other scenarios is possible. One other example would be like Doctor Nanjo shooting the culprit dead but the culprit managed to pull the trigger as well to shoot Doctor Nanjo. The order of death would be the culprit first and finally Doctor Nanjo, the last victim. Hence a theory where one of the dead who is the culprit is possible. The theory does not contradict the red truth where the culprit is
1) A human
2) Killed Doctor Nanjo with a weapon facing point-blank
3) Is NOT the 19th person but one of the 18th
Your theory holds but the main point here is the 'who dunnit'. That's what has battler stumped. None of the named survivors have the ability to commit the murder.
Ryan Elf Very well done ! It is said in *red* that doctor Nanjo was killed point-blank the culprit was in front of him and he was murdered by someone else's gun neither trap or these awful things. The culprit at the end in 3th game is EVA, she becomes the head and witch of the family because she found the gold and solved the epitaph. That's why she kills Battler in the end " It took long for you to notice Battler-kun " *ShotsBattler* It means that right after Nanjo dies soo does Battler and the others, just Eva survives because in the end she wants all the gold to herself, Mamon of Greed "kills" her in the scene when Eva-Beatrice appears in front of Ange after Kasumi dies. Eva sinned for greed desiring the gold and fullfiling it was a way for her to kill her enemies literally, especially Krauss and her dad that did not praised her. Unfortunally she is ALWAYS regreting the curse of the gold and had to sacrifice her own son. She wanted the gold but she did not want her son to die then she ends up in regret. Probably the one who shot Nanjo in fact died right after he killed the doctor it was half-dead mostly like losing alot of blood and walking in difficulty duo to wounds. It is very simple any of the survivors killed Nanjo neither Eva did it means that there is some of the other person between the 14 people that are dead that it is still alive ( half dead but in the process of dying and dies right after killing Nanjo ) - Remember one thing Kinzo is always dead by at the start of all games it means that there is 17 people alive but Kinzo death let us here with 13 possible humans that could have killed Nanjo, that came back from the death scenario or were hidden to kill the doctor that is helping the culprit Beatrice ! remember Nanjo received alot of money because he had a very sick grandson or something like he needed the money and Ange finds out the same money with Kumasawa's son that were received 1 day before the crimes i think it was in 3th October 86 that the letters were sent by Beatrice aka 'Culprit' ) people that "died" in Battler's perspective but actually 1 was not dead atleast and were involved in the crime and decided to shot Nanjo for X reason i think it is because of perfoming the epitaph or revenge( my favorite theory maybe it has something to do with shannon's death ). I do not want to spoiler more ! but if you stop everything and start using logic all of the story makes alot of sense. Even in Maria and Anges chapters it is incredible sad and fascinating showing us the true meaning of magic in the story it is a trick an illusion that's what all the witches does in the whole story. Ange herself has one chapter near the end of 4h arc called 'Magic' when she defeats Kasumi-chan. Glad that she had Amakusa to help her out :P Also poiting out Nanjo was not carrying a gun he was shocked when he found the other culprit and was shot right after. He is faking autopsies remember that's why he is the "Doctor" and checking the bodies of the dead ones he is very important in order to Beatrice exist in the island, in another words he accepted the money from the culprit ( this person had to go to a bank and get alot of money to send to their home adress - Kumasawa and Nanjo -before 4th October 86 ) he helped the culprit to perform the murders but ends up dead :' ( i would not say that killing people for money is good like this.
Her voice seriously makes me feel things
I hate ASMR but this is THE BEST
Yasu has two keys because we consider that Shannon and Kanon are two servants. Some people of the Ushiromiya accepted the trick before the beginning of the story. The count is different for the 17 or 18 people. Erika counts the corpses so only Yasu. Battler counts the "personalities" of the game : Shannon-Kanon. And the story accepts the two views (8th game).
The trick about the video is : the name. Kanon-Shannon are useless at this part of the story and Yasu "killed" them. Yasu killed Nanjo.
Spoilers
Or if you want it to be someone revealed already, the persona Beatrice, furniture of Yasu, killed Nanjo. Which is basically the same thing.
everything in this scene is perfect, their expressions, the music, the voices, it's truly a perfect checkmate
7:35 Battler actually figured it out
If only battler forced Eva to answer!! 8:37 right?
Right, Eva-Beatrice started really good with saying "No life forms other than HUMANS have any connection to the game" (4:53). She denied witches with the red truth, completly breaking the point of the whole game, but Battler didn't notice that.
Battler, you're a horrible detective. Eva-Beatrice, you are a horrible Witch.
She said that later on again, but added that the human might've used magic!
lorenzo romano Yeah like 1nikini said, the point was that he had to prove it was carried out without magic, and not that it was carried out by a human. So a human who can use magic would be a witch, but still considered a human. As long as there is an impossibility that Battler has to explain using logic (In this case it was the fact that the murder was commited when apparently everyone who could have done it was dead) Then the witch will win.
***** "So a *human who can use magic* would be a *witch*, but still *considered a human*.
Can you explain this? Because it seems contradictory.
Witches are humans that made a pact with a demon to get magic. Humans are humans (I don't know how to define that). They are both different things...unless you tried to say something else.
lorenzo romano
A woman and a man are inherently different, but they are both still humans. I don't see why a witch would be different, they're not an entirely different species, they're just a human who can use magic.
***** "They're not an entirely different species". Yes, they have a lot of common, but they are a different specie.
Werewolves are similar to humans, yet they are "beasts". Vampires are similar to humans, yet they are "undead", and so on..
I mean, we could start a discussion of why a Witch is/isn't a human, but in the end, it just depends on how you see it. For me, a Witch is a witch, not a human, manily because they "gave up their humanity" to demons in exchange for magic
(Just to be clear, I don't belive in all these things)
Superhero18 The deaths weren't listed in order and they were said after Nanjo's dead, so it was possible for George to kill Nanjo and then suicide, and, for the blue that I read before, Kanon and Shannon are different identities and marked as different people by the red truth, besides, the Umineko's manga has now confirmed ShKanonTrice's theory.
It's frustrating to see just how close Battler is. If he just connected the dots he would've solved it like 2 episodes early.
Her list appeared in Red, and she had said "Nanjo is dead" at the very last moment. Meaning that all of the other victims deaths were confirmed before Nanjo's death. If their deaths were confirmed as above, they couldn't have created a false corpse, etc.
The voice acting is meta level
I love this scene, it is so near of the truth
true, but battler was pretty close a few other times like even in the anime right?
@@nicbentulan In the question arcs? I mean the Yasu truth, not just the truth about a murder. He did a pretty good job with the Eva murders, for example, but about Yasu?
@@globoxo9901 I mean Yasu too (that rhymes). Not many times of course but I believe a few times battler was close?
@@nicbentulan I guess during the "Kanon killed Jessica", for example... But that was basically circumstantial. I don't remember any other scene where he talked about the possibility of the culprit having several personas, or something about the big twist.
@@globoxo9901 what about on the cliff with beatrice in episode 13? battler asked 'are you gonna say that you're one of the 18 in disguise or something?!' wow what if beatrice answered that?
Truly this was one the most epic moments of the novel, so good...
EVA never declared in Red "when" any of the people on the Island actually died, just that they were dead. Beato stated in Red earlier in the game that Kinzo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, Kumasawa, Rosa, Maria, and Kyrie were dead. Anyone else could have gotten into an altercation with Nanjo, suffer a fatal wound before killing him, and only manage to blind Jessica before dying from their own wounds. This way, EVA's Red Truth holds, and the culprit is someone other than Eva/Jessica/Battler, no?
Witches don't count as humans - see the statements about 17/18 people on the island. So yeah, EVA basically shot herself in the foot with that. Too bad Battler didn't catch it.
[red]I think, therefore I am.[/red] Use that.
I fucking love it, it's so playful, yet completely evil.
Spoilers for end of the game
Its so fucked looking back at this scene and realizing that in 5:42, after mentioning everyone who is dead, she says "This is all 18 people" but its NOT in red
Is it weird that I like Eva's voice O.o
She's got a really beautiful voice! X3
4:42 Loving the Rue Morgue reference there.
"No life forms other than humans have any connection to this game." By saying that she just admitted that nor demons nor witches have anything to do with the game, ergo there is no magic involved. She simply just said "This case could be commited by human" in red truth. She should lose at this point.
However,she states that human could have used magic in white. What she seems to be stating is the human had to use magic to commit the murders, and if magic can be use in this game, then the witch can exist in game as "human who does magic".
But later it's clarified that human includes humans who can use magic? And the clarification isn't in red but I think it's ok. Like definition of closed room isn't in red because it's a definition not a proposition.
And even if it denies magic then that still doesn't explain how the murder was carried out?
Knox 2 basically says a witch can't be the culprit since it's super natural.
Another personality of Eva exists. Although Eva did not commit the murders herself, the "witch" or "other self" inside her took over and committed the murders.
A shotgun went off early and blinded Jessica, and Nanjo was killed by the "other Eva". There were hints that she was inside of her and she did take over a few times so the culprit is the "other Eva" or technically Eva herself indirectly.
Shibou shiteiru.
10:00 10:05 4:54 5:35 7:15 7:21 8:25 12:10 12:25 12:37 13:01
What are these?
@@nicbentulan Eva's voice epic moments
@@YoshiyaKanon thanks!!!!!!!!!!
@@YoshiyaKanon my gift to you:
eva-beatrice:
Are you kidding ??? What the ** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all!
I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed...
battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring.
Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Source ra30o7
11:50 drat. Thought I could've argued some kind of robot or machine killed nanjo. Lol.
And the craziest part is that this argument would probably work. It's a devil's proof, she can't deny that such machine might've existed in the island and Dlanor wasn't added in the game yet to counter that :v
(Ok, actually this wouldn't work because she said in red that Nanjo was killed by another person ,_,)
@@lovkarts Probably some loophole. A machine or robot assisted in some way? XD
@@lovkarts
Do you know Gasai Wesley So Tigran L Petrosian Hans Niemann Magnus Carlsen?
eva-beatrice:
Are you kidding ??? What the **** are you talking about man ? You are a biggest looser i ever seen on Rokkenjima ! You was doing PIPI in your pampers when i was beating humans much more stronger then you! You are not proffesional, because proffesionals knew how to lose and revive the witch, you are like a girl crying after i beat you! Be brave, be honest to yourself and stop this trush accusations!!! Everybody know that i am very good golden witch, i can win anyone in the world in single fragment! And "b"attler "u"shiromiya is nobody for me, just a human who are crying every single time when loosing, ( remember what you say about Beatrice ) !!! Stop playing with my title, i deserve to have a good title during whole my witch carrier, I am Officially inviting you to Kuwadorian blitz match with the Prize fund! Both of us will invest ¥5000000000 and winner takes it all!
I suggest all other ushiromiyas who's intrested in this situation, just take a look at my results in 1986 and 1998 red truth championships, and that should be enough... No need to listen for every crying babe, Eva-Beatrice is always play Fair ! And if someone will continue Officially talk about me like that, we will meet in Golden Land! God bless with true! True will never die ! Liers will red webbed...
battler response: You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is proctoring.
Note: This above is a parody of a chess copypasta. Look up ra30o7 on reddit
Or now:
You got yourself a deal man. Anytime, anywhere as long as there is a proctologist.
RED: "Nanjo was killed by another person.... direct method of murder and not a trap."
not a Trap huh xd
Also, it's possible to claim that Nanjo was killed by someone else before that someone commit suicide before they were claim by the red truth
Battler was actually quite close to nailing down the culprit when he mentioned,'one person with different personalities', but then he was stupid and used Jessica as a possible culprit, even though she was blinded by Eva.
Seriously, I'm just going to lay it down, right here and right now;'Battler is one of THE MOST ANNOYING protagonists to have ever existed." Even Bern and Lambda thought he was stupid, because he couldn't figure out who the culprit was.
I think it's kind of interesting that Battler's so unaware of what's really going on. He's THE protagonist, but he isn't the person we're always rooting for, let alone the person's eyes we always see through. Sure, only detectives see the truth in these games, but there's so much more than just the singular truth of what actually happened, which is the entirety of what this whole series explains over the course of like 200 hours of story. Battler being sort of ignorant of the game at hand and having brain fart moments really means the other characters get time to shine, both by helping him and by being their own amazing people. I mean, imagine if he was actually the one "winning" at this whole mystery/fantasy mindfuck fever dream. I get it, he can be excessively dumb at times, but I think that just adds to his character and the overall message of Umineko.
Also, you gotta remember that hindsight is 20/20. He may be missing the mark by a tiny sliver here, but sometimes that just happens to people. He doesn't have any magic ~yet~ and he's making mistakes. That makes him decently relatable to me.
@@ReunionMana Yes. Also, the fiction he is in makes him slighty incompetent so the Theatergoing Witches (us) can fiqure it out.
@ULTIMATE GOKU I figured it out in episode 5.
@ULTIMATE GOKU It all came together after the red truth in Natsuhi's head, "I never told anyone about liking fall except Shannon." Until that, the fall card could have been a random guess, but the red truth emphasizes the importance.
Also, The orphanage is brought up as the place furniture comes from, and correlated with the baby from 19 years ago. Also, that person is a man. (Kanon)
The servants, Natsuhi, Krauss, Genji, and Nanjo are the only ones who know for sure Kinzo is dead. Of those, only Shannon or Kanon are close enough in age to be the person on the phone.
Finally, in episode 4,Shannon and Kanon reveal their knowledge of past games. The only other characters who do that is BEATRICE and Kinzo, a illusion who is already dead. Once you find out Kinzo is weird, Kanon and Shannon become really weird.
@ULTIMATE GOKU Yeah. There is a big hint in Epispde 3. They bring up 6 years ago. Battler says he barely remember, and then Shannon says she remembers it like it was yesterday (ouch). She then says (more ouch).
Then, in Episode 4, we gets BEATRICE's
and the sin from years ago.
She might have implied the order of their deaths, but that means nothing.
[Red]It means that if everyone else is confirmed to be dead, then the possibility of a false corpse doesn't exist.
[Red] Also, there's this: To create a false corpse, there would've had to been time before hand. Also, I doubt various suspects are all carrying false corpses.
[Red]What we know is that in all four games, all suspects before the murders originally were grouped. And mostly tried to stay that way.
You know what I think? /Blue Truth: The Shannon and Kanon Eva-Beatrice are different people from the actual game itself. She didn't say in the red truth that it was all 18 people in this game, and instead in the white text. Therefore, my theory is that she shouted out two random people that were named Shannon and Kanon, and that they were dead long before the Shannon and Kanon of this game. This also applies to any other person too.
You forgot where I said that the person faking his/her death got him/herself killed after murdering Nanjo.
If we talk about symbolism, Battler has been called the White King and he wears the White Cross (The cross being the Kings trademark in Chess). Maria wears the Black Cross. When the Epitaph was solved, look who dies next, Maria and Rosa who weren't even staked being the sole people of everyone who weren't. Maria being the Black King represents in the results.
Spiders do actually count as animals, so that can't work. She also stated that it was a direct form of murder, so I don't believe that poisoning would answer it.
As Eva-Beatrice explained, there were only three people alive at the time of Nanjo's murder, and each had a perfect alibi; Eva was under constant supervision from Battler, Battler was watching Eva, and Jessica was blinded and could not commit the murder.
Battler was extremely close man, it hurts
They are also the killers in EP 3 if you understand their roles in the game.
My idea: Somebody faked their death and killed Nanjo, then either commited suicide or died accidentally. Alternatively, Nanjo is the culprit, and one of his victims survived being attacked by him, and they killed Nanjo before bleeding out. Or rather, Nanjo and the person faking their death had a standoff and they both died.
EP 1: Maria and Battler are among the last. EP 2: Maria and Battler are among the last. EP 3: Epitaph is solved, Maria and Rosa are killed the very next without being staked. EP 4: Maria and Battler are among the last. EP 5: Epitaph is solved. Maria and Rosa are in the first twilight, Stakes comment it was an Imposter. EP 6: Maria,Rosa AND Battler die, both 5 and 6 were suspended.
Lol
Maria is an important pawn lol
She never defined "Dead" It can be interpreted as they faked there death. She never said any of the "dead" took parts in the murder of nanjo. She never said the "dead" can't take part in the game anymore after "death" and she never said the "dead" don't exist on the game board after there "death" Therefore, anyone of the "dead" can perform the murder.
Oh God someone validate my existence and confirm if my answer is right or wrong
[Red] If we interpret Shannon and Kanon to be the same person, then someone on the list is not dead, mainly, George supposedly. [/red] Therefore this argument strongly supports George being an accomplice (like in Rosatrice) but needing Shannon and Kanon to be the same person (as in Shkanon.)
Basically, Nanjo and George had a fight, but George didn't die.
-Nanjo went to finish the deed
-George then killed Nanjo and was killed by Eva
-Battler was killed
-Jessica died in the explosion
-Eva escaped
Not aware of anything of anything after the anime.
[Blue] The culprit is on of the 15 people mentioned in the red truth to be dead and Jessica was killed in an unrelated incident [Blue]
I got it!!!! We are speaking in the case that the murder was committed DURING the storm. What if after everything had finished Nanjo escaped and was murdered by someone OFF the island? This way he was definitely killed, but it was not by Eva, Jessica, or battler, and it does not break te 18 existing humans rule in te slightest. How is that?
oh this is me 8 years ago before i finished the whole series
ohhhh baby me. battler you were soooooooooooo close
True, the Devil's Rule. I had forgotten. [Red]However, going by the statements in Red the deaths were listed supposedly in order. If that's the case then Nanjo is the last one that died, and the other 14 have been confirmed to be dead.[/red] Meaning that Eva, Jessica and Battler were still the only 3 left on the island.
I have a theory. /Blue Truth: When EVA Beatrice was naming the life or death status of all 18 people, some of them may not have been dead in the physical sense. As in that once they began the murders, they could have abandoned the identity they had held before. From this, lest it be dis proven, we can assume that EVA Beatrice's red truth about the life or death status of all 18 people to be nullified. Thus we can assume that the true culprit could have used a false body or body double of their former selves in order to make everyone else believe them to be already dead and unable to commit the murders! end blue truth/
Theawkwardone0 Red Truth: Regarding the unidentified corpses, all of their identities are guaranteed. Therefore, no body double tricks exist!
Lady Bernkastel the Witch of Miracles Repeat it! All names given to each of the victims are their true names!
Red: All names given to each of their victims are their true names *fufu* What will you do?
Lady Bernkastel the Witch of Miracles Blue/ It is possible that one of the victims in this incident had planned to kill from the very beginning of the story and gave the true culprit a slow acting poison in their food, such as a massive dose of Polonium which eventually killed the culprit by means of homicide, adding them to the "dead" list! End blue truth/
Knox8th It´s forbidden for the case to be resolved with clues that are not presented! Red: The culprit did not kill him himself, by:unintentional intentional and coincidental means!
Your first idea contradicts Eva-Beatrice's Red Truth, where she said "... It was with a direct method of murder, not a trap."
For the second one. It's close, but also contradicts with the rules of the Red Truths. You do not have to be a witch to cast a Red Truth, but you must be on the Witch Side in order to cast it.
Also, if a Purple Declaration were to be revealed, it would still end up showing Eva-Beatrice as the culprit, if not no one. But, the culprit /can/ lie with a Purple Declaration.
Well then, [Red] The meta-world and the world of Rokkenjima share the same time periods [/red] So when do you think this conversation takes place? I can give you another hint [Red] It is not after Nanjo was murdered. [/red]
You gotta admit this song slaps
For the first 5 sure but what about the last 3 or the other millions of fragments across the sea of fragments. There is always a fragment of every situation. See how far this reasoning has taken the detective Furudo Erika. What do you think everybody?
ok ik everyone here knows the intended solution here is [beato's true nature] but 6:27 doesn't this one line fuck up the whole thing? was this an oversight? am i incompetent? she said ONLY jessica and nanjo were in the room when the murder happened. i don't see how [REDACTED] could slip through that wording??
Personally, everything would be explained if we take Jessica's conversation during Nanjo's murder in a literal sense.
[SPOILER]
It was Kanon, who faked his death and pretended to be a ghost. I always found it suspicious that he requested Jessica not to touch him as he was guiding her to hide from EVA-Beatrice. To explain the red truth with EVA about all 15 people mentioned being dead for real, all Kanon had to do was hide and commit suicide after guiding Jessica out.
It can't be.
It was confirmed in red that Kanon is dead.
"The red only tells the truth!!"
The reason Kanon doesn't want Jessica to touch him is because spoilers:
"he" is wearing Shannon's outfit because "he" was faking her physical death about four minutes ago.
I thought theories in this game had to be dis-proven by the witch, not proven by me.
Nobody said anything explicit about the order in who died. Eva-Beatrice said something about Nanjo being the last to die in white, but that doesn't matter.
[Red] Rosa knew about the bomb, she told Eva about it, and the hidden tunnel to Kuwadorian. [/red] This was shown in a mythical scene of Beatrice surrendering her powers to Evatrice. Just like in the 7th game, how Beato revealed the truth to the siblings. Even in the TIPS it tells us that she survived, even if she did get hit by the bomb, she still survived. She then wrote the truth in her diary, and on her deathbed, gave the headship and ring to Ange, which explains how Ange has the ring after.
I love that song. I have it on my phone. lol
Doesn't this disproof the shkanontrice theory? 5:00
How?
I don't think it does EXCEPT for the thing at 5:40 ... I think Eva-beatrice should say all 15 not all 15 people because Shannon and kanon are 1 person. Idk.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 I don't think it does EXCEPT for the thing at 5:40 ... I think Eva-beatrice should say all 15 not all 15 people because Shannon and kanon are 1 person. Idk.
@@nicbentulan Spoilers:
Oh, that is easy. Shannon and Kanon are two people, but one human. Or rather, Shannon and Kanon are two personas of one human.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 I already know that but in this case they Kanon and Shannon should still count as 2 persons even if portrayed by 1 person. What's the harm in saying just 15 instead of 15 people? I think it avoids ambiguity and still does the same brilliant trick.
12:25
Great Lady Lambda-sama! **Darts eyes** Certainly, you're right. **Fiddles fingers** She never specifies when they were the only three left. [Blue]However, the moment when only three Humans could have been present on the island is when Nanjo died. Furthermore, a popular theory of fake drugs or fake corpses had been denied by Knox's rules which say that such a device needed to be inferred to. Which it never is.[/blue]. Don't misinterpret, Lambda-Sama. It is out of respect for you that I argue
So no faking deaths, at least on purpose. A body doesn't have to be a fake corpse to be identified as a corpse. The only thing left I have is that Nanjo is the culprit, and one of his victims was knocked out cold, but woke up later and confronted Nanjo. Either they both died in a standoff, or the victim died from wounds Nanjo gave him/her beforehand.
Or Nanjo was an accomplice of the culprit.
[Red] The red only speaks the Truth [Red]
[Red] The Golden Witch Beatrice is the culprit [Red]
*ahaha.wav*
Indeed. Spoilers
The Persona with the Title, The Golden Witch, Beatrice Killed Nanjo.
AHAAhahAAAAHAAAHAAHAAAAAHAHAH!
12:13
It is possible for battler to be the culprit as he was the Culprit with his family in Bernkastel's game. This can be defined as he was able to lie using Purple Statement meaning he was the culprit in that game. Also remember there is no Red truth that stops your from calling something else a corpse. See how far this reasoning has taken the detective Furudo Erika. What do you think everybody?
Those who can't tell the truth are liars muhaha
ok... i think i found my X...
[blue]However, their deaths were not proclaimed in red at the instant Doctor Nanjo died. Strictly speaking, it was in the fight between me and EVA after Doctor Nanjo's corpse was found. In other words, if someone who was alive at the time that Doctor Nanjo was killed died before EVA proclaimed that death, you can sew right through that crack!...[blue]
This gives me the possibility for X to apear, might change X from an unknown to one of the 15 dead in red...
Wrong. Rudolf pinned Belphegor and Evatrice/Rook and King.
Pinning is a term of Chess meaning the piece with lower value has to guard/shield the piece of higher value if in between the piece that is pinning and the higher value one. Rook has less value than the King thus Belphegor had to guard Evatrice. Rooks are used in Heraldry as Charges on SHIELDS, where they refer to Meubles/Furniture. In Chess only 3 pieces can pin.The Rook,The Bishop and the Queen.
Who came here after Higurashi sotsu ep 10
Thanks, I'll check it out. :)
[Red] Eva planned to kill everyone on the island after she found the gold, however, she was not the only person with those plans [/red] So your second theory is correct. However, she did not kill Nanjo. Who died before Nanjo? George and Shannon, right? So depending on which theory you believe, Rosatrice or Shkanon, either George or Shannon could've murdered Nanjo. I can explain how one of them could've done it too.
Or heck, Beatrice - The Endless Witch. Chess - The Game of Endless Possibilities.
is added in to the 18 people and so commited nanjo's murder, this person does not need to be in contact with the survivers and so does not break any of the red aliby truths about battler, eva or jessica. from this we can pin a murder X on nanjo's murder and so break this close room. person X could help with other murders however, they did not have contact with eva about nanjo's murder. [blue]
Well this is my blue wedge on to this web of red truths
this is but one small problem i see about this
4:58
Only humans are involved
Meaning witches aren't involved
CHEKU MEITO DA
However,she states that human could have used magic in white. What she seems to be stating is the human had to use magic to commit the murders, and if magic can be use in this game, then the witch can exist in game as "human who does magic".
But later it's clarified that human includes humans who can use magic? And the clarification isn't in red but I think it's ok. Like definition of closed room isn't in red because it's a definition not a proposition.
And even if it denies magic then that still doesn't explain how the murder was carried out?
Mind if I take a quick shot at this? [BLUE] A trap can be a direct method to commit murder. Nanjo could have been killed by a mechanism that malfunctioned. A safeguard designed to incapacitate or stun someone which became lethal when it malfunctioned.[/BLUE] Well, does the first sentence contradict the red? I admit it was a bit weak.
I should point out I didn't check everything before I made that statement, so I probably forgot something. Still, it was a good lark.
Afraid the red blocks this. It's clearly stated that Nanjo is dead while Eva, Battler and Jessica are the only ones alive at this point. In other words, Nanjo is 100% definitely dead on the island.
Battler actually solves this one in the 4th novel. Until you get that far, here's a hint; in this video, there's a line that Eva does not say in red that is very important. If you can figure out which line that is you have a huge hint.
If the word dead is in red, the people who is considering as dead is out of the game and cannot make any move. But there is a trick about the word dead for two people. Those two aren't really humans like the others ;)
Does anyone know the name of the song that plays in the background while Eva-Beatrice is explaining?
When has 'person' ever been defined in red? Hold on. Let me do an analysis.
[Red] Krauss' and Natsuhi's corpses were found around 6 pm.
Nanjo died at 7 pm, after George's "corpse" was found. [/red]
Now here is the important bit.
[Red] Eva killed Battler at 11:15, 45m before the end![/red]
We do not get to see 4 hours of game 3. If George killed Nanjo, Eva and Battler would be his highest priority. [Blue] Eva killed George before killing battler and escaping [/blue]
I can explain Eva's Diary too.
I decline, because [Red] not only does present exist but so does past. [/red] The meta-world is made of magic. Eva's argument is made of magic as it is entirely composed of the red truth. Therefore, this conversation happened just before Nanjo was murdered. There is a 1/3 chance that it happened after Nanjo was indeed murdered. Because of Eva showing Battler himself and Eva calling Jessica's name in the hall. But that scene may have been fake, so the chances are even less.
Wait, hold on. Just noticed a blatant contradiction.
Red: A weapon was readied, and he killed with it from point-blank range in front of him! The culprit appeared openly before Nanjo's eyes, and as they both looked at each other's faces, the culprit killed him.
However, Eva-Beatrice claims it was her. With this truth, that can't be possible. After all, she just stated in red that the culprit was a 'he', therefore a male. Now what does this do? Nothing really, but it's contradictory.
The goal of the Witch's side is to prove that the occult-like murders were perpetrated by a witch, namely Beatrice. Muddying the waters and preventing the reader from considering that the culprit is among the humans present. She succeeded in doing that.
Battler could claim that it was someone's trained pet poisonous spider. And no, spider do not count as animals. They're on an island possibly filled with a few insects inside both houses.
One of the greatest tellings of the truth to ever exist. In 13 minutes EVABeatrice btfo world religions.
You have the next part of the episode? (When Battler is forced to write a declaration and Ange appear)
However, there is a 3rd Person wearing a cross, that is Kyrie, wearing the Red one. Chess Pieces aren't just Black and White, back in the past, Red was used instead of Black. So for 7 and 8, you can consider Kyrie as the King. How that matters for EP 3? Simple, it explains why noone survived even if it's solved. Either Beatrice kills everyone when noone solves it, or Kyrie and Rudolf will when it's solved. Hence that Rudolf was the one who went looking for Maria and Rosa.
Me as Eva-Beatrice: [Red] Dr.Nanjo has never committed murder! We've already confirmed the deaths of the 15 family members! In other words, no one has faked their death..... [White] But then you might say Nanjo tried to assault X person and the situation escalated.. [Red] So I'll say that Dr. Nanjo never assaulted or tried to assault one of the 15 victims! [White] Accidental Death? [Red] Dr.Nanjo was deliberately murdered! And finally: There's no motive for anyone to murder Dr.Nanjo!