One of my old bosses (Inspector of Police) had one leg 1.5" shorter than the other, courtesy of a .32 Webley Self Loader. They were still being issued to Police post WW2, he was going to confront an offender believed to be armed - when he pulled the slide back to load it and released the slide it went off and the bullet went thru his femur, shattering it into small pieces. Seems the sear had failed when the slide closed, dropping the hammer. After he offered to crawl over and strangle the doctors if they removed his leg (their first suggestion) they just removed all the fragments and connected the remaining ends, which worked fine. He had a full and active Police career afterwards, just with an interesting rolling gait.
I own several Frommer Stops and a Webley Self loader, hes right about being able to shoot the Frommer with off the shelf ammo, the 455 is very hard to find but its a joy of a pistol to shoot
I own a couple Frommers myself and no trouble using any 7.65 auto ammo. .32 auto is a different cartridge than 7.65 x17 and I never use it (Check SAMMI/CIP) Frommers are amazing guns. Use S&B 73 grn ammo as it's closest to 7.65 Frommer. Simon has 2 things going for him when it comes to guns, Jack and shit. Jack just left town.
0:33 The Mondragón M 1908 *was not* the first semi - automatic rifle adopted by a military. The first was the Madsen Rasmussen M1896 "Flaadens Rekylgevær" rifle adopted by the Danish Navy for use in fortifications (where it could not get fouling from dirt). The M1896 was actually a development of *the first* anywhere semi - auto ("self loading") rifle - the Madsen Rasmussen M1888 (!!) "Forsøgsrekylgevær" - which were not "prototypes" but actual working field rifles, but impractical because of the use of black powder. The Mondragøn would be first to see combat because they had been manufactured by Sig in Switzerland and the "Triple Alliance" (Germany esp.) ordered some directly from Sig, skipping the ones in service with the Mexican military.
Well yeah. He basically stole all of their research to make his own video off of it. Simon has never shot a gun in his life from the looks of this. Fuq this guy.
The P08 was not unreliable in trench conditions just because it was toggle action, the toggle moved so quickly it expelled all the mud from the action keeping the action working condition, there's even a mud test by InRangeTV. The German Trench Raiders would have chosen a different weapon if the P08 were to be problematic around mud, but it did have a problem, it was too expensive to make, as they had to hand fitted.
Yep; Forgotten Weapons did a mud test proving it was FAR more reliable in mud than a 1911, which rarely even fired due to the exposed hammer geting debris between it and the frame. Not something I'm proud to type with my Les Baer on, but facts are facts (I once did some mud tests with James Yeager which proved "old reliable" revolvers did even worse (!) due to mud acting as a wedge, preventing cylinder rotation. This was usually cured by simply opening the cylinder and giving it a spin.)
@@MisterOcclusion there seemed to be a lot of those "safe queens" (as we may call them now) that were developed in the early 1900s, we had the Mondragon at the beginning of the video, and the Ross rifle as two big examples. It is kind of cool to see that these firearms that were unsuited for the battlefield did still find niche uses. The Ross even got TWO niche roles after it was drummed out of front line service, designated marksman/sniper role AND redesigned into a sort of proto-assault rifle (maybe Huot could've upped the price by a couple dollars by adding a weird hand grip, like the Howell)
.30-30 isn't called thirty by thirty, it's just thirty thirty. Kind of like .45-70 Government, it tells you the caliber (.45) and the powder load (70gr of black powder) instead of the caliber and cartridge length like a modern cartridge naming (7.62x51mm).
For those wondering, the powder load behind .30-30 is 30gr (1.9g) of smokeless powder. It was originally called .30 Winchester Centerfire or .30 WCF, Marlin originally used the name .30-30 to avoid referencing a competitor on their rifles, and that's the name that stuck. .30-06 (thirty aught six) is named for the caliber and year of adoption (1906) rather than the powder load, and was adapted from the .30-03 round originally adopted with the Springfield 1903 rifles.
4:20 "The Webley Self-Extracting Revolver, which in one form or another was in service with the British military for whopping 103 years." The M1911 (still in limited service with US Special Operators after 113 years) pats it on it's wittle head, "Awwwww, isn't that cute?"
Exactly, it was and is to this day, wildly popular and I also own one. For over a century it has been used and yet you still get clowns posturing as “experts” or “intellectuals” in the threads saying it didn’t become popular until the 1990’s. 😬
7.5 Swiss as well was the official Swiss army round until 1990, and stayed in reserve service until just a few years ago. It is still a widely used caliber in Switzerland in hunting and target rifles.
It’s highly unlikely the FN M1900 would have found itself being used by a British officer, even though they could privately purchase their sidearm it was stipulated that it had to be in the standard service calibre, in this case .455”.
My mom bought an old Webley revolver when she was in her 20s, and she was the only one in the family who could shoot the thing without it knocking her down. It was a big beefy officer's gun from WW1 and she kept it in working order her whole life. I often wonder about her pistol's history, my oldest brother has it now and I do hope that he has kept it in functioning condition.
@@nissan300ztt but is that indictive of the rest of the country. I know we got a shit ton of surplus rifles over here, and most of that 8mm ammo is probably imported from Europe.
The Webley Self Loading pistol was never Adopted by the British Army or commonwealth forces, it was only appoved for private purchace by officers. Even then, it was not the first, as that title goes to the Webley Fosbery as it is a self loading pistol that preceded the WSL by 9 years.
If you’re going to create videos of obscure WW1 weapons you really should make one about the Livens Large Gallery Flame Projector. The grand daddy of all flame throwers
And then they get out and become a civilian contractor and realize that nearly everything they use is provided by the lowest bidder on a govt contract.
lmao, what an innocent soul you are. That is exactly what most militaries and governments do, though. Not just with materials, but with the people that the government hires as well. Experts in any field will mostly agree that if you are highly talented in your field, you'd be crazy to work for the government as it would mean a significant pay cut just to work with sub-par, outdated tools/materials while being asked to do more than those tools allow you to do, reasonably.
@@en21b sounds great in theory, and you can do that in a totalitarian regime with a small military, but when you have millions of soldiers to arm, and this weapon is going to stick with you for decades, it's not a decision to be taken lightly.
I mean, if the Huot could actually be produced for $50, the could have 20x the machine guns for the same price. 20x the machine guns would likely have saved many allied lives if they worked alright. Today they could afford to produce equal amounts of the expensive ones. Back in the day it would have meant more machineguns. They were cheaper because they were faster to produce and used existing parts. That being said, I imagine it was unlikely to have actually hit the $50 target and costs would have likely ballooned by the time it made it into full production. And it hadn't seen much real life use, and was thus risky
Yay bullets bullets bullets! Yeah the huot was surprisingly dropped at a tome when really it would have not been in full production until the late offensives where the walking fire idea was being planed and started the huot would have excelled at that.
War time isn't the time to change anything unless you absolutely have to, so you can see why they would have passed on the Huot. But after the war, it made sense to go with a $50 Huot over the $1000 Lewis, while developing the Bren.
Speaking of discouraging soldiers from shooting too many bullets, I read that in the U.S. Civil War, the top Union military had a chance to buy multi-shot rifles, but declined on the grounds that (a) they were expensive; and (b) they might encourage the men to waste ammunition. The latter reason seems kind of absurd today, but the Armed Forces at the time were falling behind in resupplying their troops, and using up ammo faster would have aggravated the problem. (Some “repeaters” did get used in the Civil War. But most soldiers on both sides had single-shot rifles, especially for the first couple of years.)
The single round thing in the Webley was also so cavalry officers could put a horse down without loading and unloading a magazine. You only need a single bullet for that and the pistols were most likely to be used for that than anything else in all reality.
Yup. As good as Simon's videos are - they are all seemingly made in a hurry. According to Giles of Our Own Devices who used to write for him - pay for writers is very, very low. Which is why he left and started his own channel.
I love Simon's stuff, but there are plenty of these types of mistakes in his videos. Not sure if it's a script error (7mm Mauser, 30-30), or him misreading a line (possibly this example). But crap happens. I usually just correct the mistakes out loud at whatever device I'm watching the video on, then move on with my day.
@@matthewlaws3557 IDK if you meant that - but 7mm Mauser did actually exist - albeit lesser known today then 8mm Mauser. IIRC, the Mexicans did use the former back then.
The FN 1900 may be obscure today but by WW1 it lead to the word “Browning” being used as a term for any small semi auto. Arch Duke Ferdinand was killed by a shot from a “Browning” (not the 1900 tho). C&Rsenal has a great video on it
Firearms technology and manufacturing was one of the drivers of the Industrial Revolution, as relevant as steam, transportion and communication. And if that doesn't tell you all you need to know about society and civilization then you are a dreamer.
I wouldn't call .30-30 Winchester a "niche" cartridge. It's still one of the most popular medium-to-large game cartridges in the US if you're not having to take longer shots across fields.
For a WWI weapon that seems to have been effective, maybe do an episode on the American sawed-off shotgun for use in the trenches. Apparently the Germans complained to some sort of war rules agency that it was an illegal war weapon.
The Dutch Police, and Army, also used FN fistguns. At first 7,65 and later most were changed to 9 mm. These weapons were well appreciated. Nicknamed "Faalt nooit" (Fails never)
So the irony of the Webly Self Loading Pistol was the fact that it had two ammunition types as Webly didnt want to give out two seperate stations of ammo. However the Navy did request an ammunition change anyways so that was mute. The original idea was to have a Semi-auto design with 2 ejector methods and the gun would be loaded with revolver cartridges allowing for 1 logistical choice. The gun cycled well and hit marks accurately, however the gun was fairly blocky as it had to ensure propper cycling, extraction, and had to operate a rimmed cartridge. This system becomes questionable and headache ridden when you realise that the designer also had this design concept before other styles, he made the self loader in the late 1880s but the company head was stuck on revolvers, he shelved the idea till he was allowed to create "Pocket moddles" to keep with the market, he made further additions and tweaks based on the changes however all of the guns were highly robust and fired well, the problem was more the fact of them not willing to switch from Webly cartridges making the ammo loads way less then alternative options, such as the pocket modles only getting 4 shots instead of the webly 6 shot pocket revolver. Basically company leadership pushed that gun down the line, when Pistol trials came out after it became a notice that Semi-automatic pistols were a big deal, they pushed to get that military contract on a design from 1889 and still firing a black powder load. it did out perform the 1900 Browning Pistol, but not enough as it had a 6 shot magazine compaired to 7+1, The Browning was also considered lighter and easier to handle, Its a big deal to keep in mind the cost and ergonomics of the weapon durring this time. The first taste of this pistol in anger was the Somme where the gun performed well against enemy attacks and also was used by officers in close quarters. It was better loading then revolvers in positions because the Webly company provided special webbing with the purchase of the weapon allowing magazines to be easily accessable while the revolvers had problems with mud getting mixed into the speed loaders locking up the action if not correctly handled (rare event tbh, soldiers were well trained with the revolvers), there was a speed drill where it was expected to load one in the gun and then drop the magazine and push in the new one giving the shooter a 8 round firing of a .46 bullet at a drastically dangerous pace for anyone on the other end of the shooters wrath, the stopping power of the pistol was great as well, compairable to the 1911 in the trenches this thing dropped targets on the first shot no questions asked. The only down sides to the side-arm in practice is the fact it primarily was using a cartridge that was heavily out dated (Ball with block powder, and the gun couldnt handle smokless as it was never designed/redesigned for it, they made "Short" rounds which were smaller rounds with smokless but they were basically more expensive and hard to eject from the gun, thus didnt go well with ordinance and died within a week of its attempted contract existing). Thus once WW1 was over, and the Sub Machinegun made relivance there was a big push to try and switch to better side arm loads. This created two camps and while that took almost 8 years to situate they basically had changed the load of the black powder to the smokless and left the old rounds in inventory and used them in combat till empty to save on logistical constraint. By the time the mid 30s the black powder rounds in stock were drastic and they still prefered to issue rifles meaning they didnt run out of Webly black powder ammo till the late 70s. The Self loader was never designed to handle the Smokless loads and changes of time, Webly didnt make a lot of contract money as hoped and scrapped the idea of designing self loaders till the 1960s and mostly focused on pocket designs till the 80s.
I have a .30-30. Its also definately not a niche cartridge. Also, anyone here who likes obscure weapons go subscribe to forgotten weapons if you haven't already.
hey hair boy exactly where do you get 30-30 Winchester is a niche caliber? it's one of the major deer cartridges over here and 7mm Mauser ain't all that hard to find either!!!
Just a foot note: Those 2000 meter sites where called 'volley sights,' and they took their tactics from the day of archery. Get 100 men to point the rifles into the air, and see if you can get a literal rain of lead going.... Of course, penetration power at that distance was laughable. We didn't say it was a good tactic!
My stepfather confiscated a Browning 1900 from a German officer during the closing days of WW2. My mother gave it to me after he passed away. It is a surprisingly comfortable fit it the hand with low recoil and fairly accurate out to 50 feet. Ammunition is cheap and plentiful. All in all a fun gun to shoot and very reliable.
Correction! Simon said the Webbley revolver was in service for 103 years. He also said it was in service from 1887 to 1970. Somebody there is math challenged. The time span from 1887 to 1970 is actually 83 years.
30-30 niche? that round has been one of the top-selling cartridges in the U.S. for about 120 years. still wildly popular and available today... Still, thanks for the video, I get it... broad strokes
Simon just reads what's put in front of him. I think his scriptwriter was just taking the p**** by referring to 7.5x55mm Swiss and Winchester 30-30 as "niche". At the rate that Simon pumps out these videos the occasional quality slip (30x30?) is going to happen but the material is usually interesting.
@@IntrospectorGeneral Oh for sure... Not mad or upset. Most of the info was good; as an American raised with guns, though, I had to pause when he said possibly the most successful nonmilitary rounds in U.S. history was niche. Just amused, is all; otherwise a great video, as usual.
And have watched all C&Rsenal videos. The Hellriegel on the other side, would count as obscure. As nobody alive has seen one in person and only 1 or two photos exist.
I am not going to say that there aren't any glocks that use "short recoil" action... might be some... but most of them use the Browning Tilting barrel action rather than "Short Recoil" barrel still moves but it is a different action
Paddy: What on earth is that? Max: That my friend, is a German Broomhandle Mauser. Paddy: I'm not using that... Max: Why, what's wrong with it? Paddy: It's an antique that's what it is. Max: Hey. It's not an antique. There's nothing wrong with that. It was my granddad's. He shot a German with this. Paddy: Was that in the Second World War? Max: No, it were in Benidorme. He had a row over a sun lounger.
Yet somehow they still get some words incorrect. Such as aluminum. Which was a word coined by an American scientist. So yes the American version is the correct version.
@@leewilkinson6372 ok.. how was I trying to disprove anything? Our fascination with firearms stems from the same fascination with all manner of technology. It's proof of human nature.
A small number of this rifle was in wwl used by french troops. There was somewhere in France a storehouse with some hundred rifles and ammunition, have read , this rifles had been given to some rearline soldiers , away from frontline.
Yup, nailed it. Other dodos in this comments section had the audacity to try to claim that cartridge wasn’t popular until after Vietnam and didn’t even really take off until the 1990’s. 😬
It's both. Short recoil only means that barrel and slide move a short way back under recoil while locked together. Which in the 1911 and most modern pistols equals to 2-3mm or so. Long recoil means they travel the whole way back locked together and only unlock at the rear end of travel. What then seperates the barrel and the slide is in the 1911's case the Browning tilting mechanism. So it it both. A Steyr M1912 on the other hand is also a short recoil, but not a Browning tilting barrel. (It turns the barrel to unlock so the barrel stays straight.)
I just think Simon is funny and a great presenter regardless off the content. Its all good content across all the channels he is like his own tv network with different channels. News, history, comedy. 👍
For people who have ADHD and don't wanna watch the full video: -Gun 1: Mondragon 1908 -Gun 2: The Webley Self Loading Pistol -Gun 3: FN 1900 -Gun 4: Frommer Stop Pistol -Gun 5: The Huot Automatic Rifle
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
One of my old bosses (Inspector of Police) had one leg 1.5" shorter than the other, courtesy of a .32 Webley Self Loader. They were still being issued to Police post WW2, he was going to confront an offender believed to be armed - when he pulled the slide back to load it and released the slide it went off and the bullet went thru his femur, shattering it into small pieces. Seems the sear had failed when the slide closed, dropping the hammer. After he offered to crawl over and strangle the doctors if they removed his leg (their first suggestion) they just removed all the fragments and connected the remaining ends, which worked fine. He had a full and active Police career afterwards, just with an interesting rolling gait.
So happy you got Minute of Mae in the video!
Well yeah, where do you think he got all his info? It's all either Wikipedia or C&Rsenal. It's not like he's ever shot a gun.
@@KungFuHonkyYou do realize how dumb and arrogant you sound right.
I own several Frommer Stops and a Webley Self loader, hes right about being able to shoot the Frommer with off the shelf ammo, the 455 is very hard to find but its a joy of a pistol to shoot
I own a couple Frommers myself and no trouble using any 7.65 auto ammo. .32 auto is a different cartridge than 7.65 x17 and I never use it (Check SAMMI/CIP) Frommers are amazing guns. Use S&B 73 grn ammo as it's closest to 7.65 Frommer. Simon has 2 things going for him when it comes to guns, Jack and shit. Jack just left town.
0:33 The Mondragón M 1908 *was not* the first semi - automatic rifle adopted by a military. The first was the Madsen Rasmussen M1896 "Flaadens Rekylgevær" rifle adopted by the Danish Navy for use in fortifications (where it could not get fouling from dirt). The M1896 was actually a development of *the first* anywhere semi - auto ("self loading") rifle - the Madsen Rasmussen M1888 (!!) "Forsøgsrekylgevær" - which were not "prototypes" but actual working field rifles, but impractical because of the use of black powder.
The Mondragøn would be first to see combat because they had been manufactured by Sig in Switzerland and the "Triple Alliance" (Germany esp.) ordered some directly from Sig, skipping the ones in service with the Mexican military.
Great to see C&Rsenal get some recognition. They’ve covered 95+% of WW1 guns by now
Well yeah. He basically stole all of their research to make his own video off of it. Simon has never shot a gun in his life from the looks of this. Fuq this guy.
30-30 is a super common hunting round. Not common in military use which might be why he called it niche.
Considering he was specifically talking about the usage by thw military,I'm going to assume as much lol
yeah let's generously give him credit for that lol
@@philwithcheese What isn't super common apparently,is common sense lol
The P08 was not unreliable in trench conditions just because it was toggle action, the toggle moved so quickly it expelled all the mud from the action keeping the action working condition, there's even a mud test by InRangeTV. The German Trench Raiders would have chosen a different weapon if the P08 were to be problematic around mud, but it did have a problem, it was too expensive to make, as they had to hand fitted.
Yep; Forgotten Weapons did a mud test proving it was FAR more reliable in mud than a 1911, which rarely even fired due to the exposed hammer geting debris between it and the frame. Not something I'm proud to type with my Les Baer on, but facts are facts (I once did some mud tests with James Yeager which proved "old reliable" revolvers did even worse (!) due to mud acting as a wedge, preventing cylinder rotation. This was usually cured by simply opening the cylinder and giving it a spin.)
Basically a match pistol in military drag. Lovely gun
@@MisterOcclusion there seemed to be a lot of those "safe queens" (as we may call them now) that were developed in the early 1900s, we had the Mondragon at the beginning of the video, and the Ross rifle as two big examples. It is kind of cool to see that these firearms that were unsuited for the battlefield did still find niche uses. The Ross even got TWO niche roles after it was drummed out of front line service, designated marksman/sniper role AND redesigned into a sort of proto-assault rifle (maybe Huot could've upped the price by a couple dollars by adding a weird hand grip, like the Howell)
also would not work if you used non standart ammo, but it wasn`t as much of a problem back then
The thumbnail for the Frommer Stop is the Steyr m1912
This guy doesn't know dick about guns.
.30-30 isn't called thirty by thirty, it's just thirty thirty. Kind of like .45-70 Government, it tells you the caliber (.45) and the powder load (70gr of black powder) instead of the caliber and cartridge length like a modern cartridge naming (7.62x51mm).
For those wondering, the powder load behind .30-30 is 30gr (1.9g) of smokeless powder. It was originally called .30 Winchester Centerfire or .30 WCF, Marlin originally used the name .30-30 to avoid referencing a competitor on their rifles, and that's the name that stuck.
.30-06 (thirty aught six) is named for the caliber and year of adoption (1906) rather than the powder load, and was adapted from the .30-03 round originally adopted with the Springfield 1903 rifles.
Simon and probably the writer are british. They don't even know what the fuck a gun is, let alone how to pronounce things as you wish.
And just for those who don’t know the 30-30 in modern naming convention would be 7.8x51mm
I was going to say the same. I like mine because it says the recipe in the name 30caliber with 30gn of powder
It's not a niche cartridge either and never was.
Man, you're a fast talker! I had to pause multiple times to take in all the content! Very informative I have been a subscriber for years. thanks
I think he has sped up in the past few years.
Thank you for an assortment of interesting info about some lesser known firearms
4:20 "The Webley Self-Extracting Revolver, which in one form or another was in service with the British military for whopping 103 years."
The M1911 (still in limited service with US Special Operators after 113 years) pats it on it's wittle head, "Awwwww, isn't that cute?"
Military superpowers, using weapons made by the lowest bidder for 100 years!
You missed a 0.
It's because Simon has to crap out 10 videos a day for 10 different channels, no time to correct mistakes.
@@bazzingabomb Dont give Simon too much credit. its 30 videos a week for 3 months. That covers the entire year of releases for all 10 channels.
Lives cost less money than money. Look at the russian cardboard armor today.
There is a reason vets don't like the term military grade.
1:01
30-30 is still widely used today I know at least 10 people with a .30-30, just in my local area
Most widely used deer hunting rifle cartridge in North America as far as I've heard. May not have much use though outside the US and Canada though
Lever action
Exactly, it was and is to this day, wildly popular and I also own one. For over a century it has been used and yet you still get clowns posturing as “experts” or “intellectuals” in the threads saying it didn’t become popular until the 1990’s. 😬
7.5 Swiss as well was the official Swiss army round until 1990, and stayed in reserve service until just a few years ago. It is still a widely used caliber in Switzerland in hunting and target rifles.
Didn't he call it "thirty by thirty?" What an idiot Simon is. He is a fake ass expert.
Plzzzzz more ww1 vids!!!
Love your content, been following and watching all your vids weekly for years 🤙🤙
The Colt automatic the Webley went up against was the 1905 model. When the 1911 was developed, any advantage the Webley had was lost.
It’s highly unlikely the FN M1900 would have found itself being used by a British officer, even though they could privately purchase their sidearm it was stipulated that it had to be in the standard service calibre, in this case .455”.
As I recall Siegfried Sassoon carried one in the Great War.
My mom bought an old Webley revolver when she was in her 20s, and she was the only one in the family who could shoot the thing without it knocking her down. It was a big beefy officer's gun from WW1 and she kept it in working order her whole life. I often wonder about her pistol's history, my oldest brother has it now and I do hope that he has kept it in functioning condition.
Looks heavy, and able to - Snap the Wrists of those, that are unprepared to wield it
I don't think the recoil of any handgun is enough to knock a person down, even handguns chambered for rifle cartridges.
Bro called 30-30 a niche cartridge 😂
😅
It may be outside of America. Like how .303 and 8mm Mauser aren't super common here.
@DESTRUCT0NAT0R really? Here in Pennsylvania 8mm is very very common deer rifle.
@@nissan300ztt but is that indictive of the rest of the country. I know we got a shit ton of surplus rifles over here, and most of that 8mm ammo is probably imported from Europe.
Right? To be fair, probably not a lot of lever guns in the UK even when you could actually own one.
You’re the only Englishman I listen to while respecting your education on firearms.
Ok. Show of hands, who was expecting Simon to say "War were declared,"?
Simon's beard is glorious, but doesn't hold a patch to Othias. You need a beard of great gravitas to use that line.
FUTURAMA BIT FOR THE WIIIIIIINNN
To be fair, I am not sure that Simon would get that reference. lol However, you win the internet today. Best comment I've seen in a while!
They certainly “borrowed” enough C&Rsenal content that he may as well have!😂
Excellent reference
The Webley Self Loading pistol was never Adopted by the British Army or commonwealth forces, it was only appoved for private purchace by officers. Even then, it was not the first, as that title goes to the Webley Fosbery as it is a self loading pistol that preceded the WSL by 9 years.
If you’re going to create videos of obscure WW1 weapons you really should make one about the Livens Large Gallery Flame Projector. The grand daddy of all flame throwers
It was a marvel, truly.
"Next we have the Frommer Stop" *Picture in background showing Steyr M1912 pistol* lol, confused me for a minute.
Consistent Content soooo Effortlessly! ❤
Interesting piece on the Huot.The Ross rifles were notorious for jamming up and seizing when hot.
I actually don't like firearms, I just watch all your videos because I like learning 🤷🏾♀️
Don't worry, there isn't anything to learn about firearms from him.
This is a video full of bad information
@@LBrawn You're right about that. It makes me mad how this guy who probably never shot a gun, thinks he can just become an expert by using Google.
the po8 was literally the main weapon of imperial stormtroopers (besides hand grenades), so it was absolutely perfect for trench conditions
So strange to hear Simon narrating seriously after watching Brain Blaze. 😂
A "bargain" is not what any military man wants to hear when knowing how their armed forces picks the weapons needed to save their life.
"lowest bidder"
And then they get out and become a civilian contractor and realize that nearly everything they use is provided by the lowest bidder on a govt contract.
lmao, what an innocent soul you are. That is exactly what most militaries and governments do, though. Not just with materials, but with the people that the government hires as well. Experts in any field will mostly agree that if you are highly talented in your field, you'd be crazy to work for the government as it would mean a significant pay cut just to work with sub-par, outdated tools/materials while being asked to do more than those tools allow you to do, reasonably.
@@en21b sounds great in theory, and you can do that in a totalitarian regime with a small military, but when you have millions of soldiers to arm, and this weapon is going to stick with you for decades, it's not a decision to be taken lightly.
I mean, if the Huot could actually be produced for $50, the could have 20x the machine guns for the same price. 20x the machine guns would likely have saved many allied lives if they worked alright.
Today they could afford to produce equal amounts of the expensive ones. Back in the day it would have meant more machineguns. They were cheaper because they were faster to produce and used existing parts.
That being said, I imagine it was unlikely to have actually hit the $50 target and costs would have likely ballooned by the time it made it into full production. And it hadn't seen much real life use, and was thus risky
Yay bullets bullets bullets!
Yeah the huot was surprisingly dropped at a tome when really it would have not been in full production until the late offensives where the walking fire idea was being planed and started the huot would have excelled at that.
War time isn't the time to change anything unless you absolutely have to, so you can see why they would have passed on the Huot. But after the war, it made sense to go with a $50 Huot over the $1000 Lewis, while developing the Bren.
Speaking of discouraging soldiers from shooting too many bullets, I read that in the U.S. Civil War, the top Union military had a chance to buy multi-shot rifles, but declined on the grounds that (a) they were expensive; and (b) they might encourage the men to waste ammunition. The latter reason seems kind of absurd today, but the Armed Forces at the time were falling behind in resupplying their troops, and using up ammo faster would have aggravated the problem.
(Some “repeaters” did get used in the Civil War. But most soldiers on both sides had single-shot rifles, especially for the first couple of years.)
The single round thing in the Webley was also so cavalry officers could put a horse down without loading and unloading a magazine. You only need a single bullet for that and the pistols were most likely to be used for that than anything else in all reality.
4:35 1887-1970 is only 83 years, not 103. Pretty major mistake.
67 can appear like 87. I see the mistake
Yup.
As good as Simon's videos are - they are all seemingly made in a hurry.
According to Giles of Our Own Devices who used to write for him - pay for writers is very, very low.
Which is why he left and started his own channel.
I love Simon's stuff, but there are plenty of these types of mistakes in his videos. Not sure if it's a script error (7mm Mauser, 30-30), or him misreading a line (possibly this example). But crap happens. I usually just correct the mistakes out loud at whatever device I'm watching the video on, then move on with my day.
I was about to comment the same
@@matthewlaws3557 IDK if you meant that - but 7mm Mauser did actually exist - albeit lesser known today then 8mm Mauser.
IIRC, the Mexicans did use the former back then.
The FN 1900 may be obscure today but by WW1 it lead to the word “Browning” being used as a term for any small semi auto. Arch Duke Ferdinand was killed by a shot from a “Browning” (not the 1900 tho). C&Rsenal has a great video on it
Firearms technology and manufacturing was one of the drivers of the Industrial Revolution, as relevant as steam, transportion and communication. And if that doesn't tell you all you need to know about society and civilization then you are a dreamer.
Youre not Johnathan Fergus, keeper of firearms and artillery, at the royal armories museum in the UK
I was Simon deficient because Brain Blaze Florida Man Friday just did not cut it. Glad this video was up.
I like how he said 30-30 is niche like everyone’s grandpa doesn’t have one in the safe
11:21 that’s a styer hahn not a Frommer Stop
Maybe it styer was replaced?
@@madmatt2028 🤷🏼♂️
I wouldn't call .30-30 Winchester a "niche" cartridge. It's still one of the most popular medium-to-large game cartridges in the US if you're not having to take longer shots across fields.
For a WWI weapon that seems to have been effective, maybe do an episode on the American sawed-off shotgun for use in the trenches. Apparently the Germans complained to some sort of war rules agency that it was an illegal war weapon.
The Dutch Police, and Army, also used FN fistguns. At first 7,65 and later most were changed to 9 mm. These weapons were well appreciated. Nicknamed "Faalt nooit" (Fails never)
So the irony of the Webly Self Loading Pistol was the fact that it had two ammunition types as Webly didnt want to give out two seperate stations of ammo. However the Navy did request an ammunition change anyways so that was mute. The original idea was to have a Semi-auto design with 2 ejector methods and the gun would be loaded with revolver cartridges allowing for 1 logistical choice. The gun cycled well and hit marks accurately, however the gun was fairly blocky as it had to ensure propper cycling, extraction, and had to operate a rimmed cartridge. This system becomes questionable and headache ridden when you realise that the designer also had this design concept before other styles, he made the self loader in the late 1880s but the company head was stuck on revolvers, he shelved the idea till he was allowed to create "Pocket moddles" to keep with the market, he made further additions and tweaks based on the changes however all of the guns were highly robust and fired well, the problem was more the fact of them not willing to switch from Webly cartridges making the ammo loads way less then alternative options, such as the pocket modles only getting 4 shots instead of the webly 6 shot pocket revolver. Basically company leadership pushed that gun down the line, when Pistol trials came out after it became a notice that Semi-automatic pistols were a big deal, they pushed to get that military contract on a design from 1889 and still firing a black powder load. it did out perform the 1900 Browning Pistol, but not enough as it had a 6 shot magazine compaired to 7+1, The Browning was also considered lighter and easier to handle, Its a big deal to keep in mind the cost and ergonomics of the weapon durring this time.
The first taste of this pistol in anger was the Somme where the gun performed well against enemy attacks and also was used by officers in close quarters. It was better loading then revolvers in positions because the Webly company provided special webbing with the purchase of the weapon allowing magazines to be easily accessable while the revolvers had problems with mud getting mixed into the speed loaders locking up the action if not correctly handled (rare event tbh, soldiers were well trained with the revolvers), there was a speed drill where it was expected to load one in the gun and then drop the magazine and push in the new one giving the shooter a 8 round firing of a .46 bullet at a drastically dangerous pace for anyone on the other end of the shooters wrath, the stopping power of the pistol was great as well, compairable to the 1911 in the trenches this thing dropped targets on the first shot no questions asked. The only down sides to the side-arm in practice is the fact it primarily was using a cartridge that was heavily out dated (Ball with block powder, and the gun couldnt handle smokless as it was never designed/redesigned for it, they made "Short" rounds which were smaller rounds with smokless but they were basically more expensive and hard to eject from the gun, thus didnt go well with ordinance and died within a week of its attempted contract existing). Thus once WW1 was over, and the Sub Machinegun made relivance there was a big push to try and switch to better side arm loads. This created two camps and while that took almost 8 years to situate they basically had changed the load of the black powder to the smokless and left the old rounds in inventory and used them in combat till empty to save on logistical constraint. By the time the mid 30s the black powder rounds in stock were drastic and they still prefered to issue rifles meaning they didnt run out of Webly black powder ammo till the late 70s. The Self loader was never designed to handle the Smokless loads and changes of time, Webly didnt make a lot of contract money as hoped and scrapped the idea of designing self loaders till the 1960s and mostly focused on pocket designs till the 80s.
I have a .30-30. Its also definately not a niche cartridge. Also, anyone here who likes obscure weapons go subscribe to forgotten weapons if you haven't already.
@19redmiata94 and C&Rsenal, for a more in depth going over.
Love me some gun jesus
It never has been niche in North America. Since 1895 it has been popular and has only become more so over the years.
C&Rsenal is so under viewed. Minute of Mae are great if you want a less in depth fix too
@Lomi311 criminally underviewed
0:30 - Chapter 1 - The mondragon M1908
4:10 - Chapter 2 - The webley self loading pistol
8:20 - Chapter 3 - The FN M1900
11:20 - Chapter 4 - The frommer stop
13:30 - Chapter 5 - The huot automatic rifle
John M. Browning was also the designer of the Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle.
hey hair boy exactly where do you get 30-30 Winchester is a niche caliber? it's one of the major deer cartridges over here and 7mm Mauser ain't all that hard to find either!!!
.30-30 Winchester was most assuredly NOT a niche cartridge in 1908 and is still in common use today.
Just a foot note:
Those 2000 meter sites where called 'volley sights,' and they took their tactics from the day of archery.
Get 100 men to point the rifles into the air, and see if you can get a literal rain of lead going....
Of course, penetration power at that distance was laughable.
We didn't say it was a good tactic!
That Webley, looks like a - Chonky, Heavy Beast !!
My stepfather confiscated a Browning 1900 from a German officer during the closing days of WW2. My mother gave it to me after he passed away. It is a surprisingly comfortable fit it the hand with low recoil and fairly accurate out to 50 feet. Ammunition is cheap and plentiful. All in all a fun gun to shoot and very reliable.
"aim to please, pun intended" - that took me too long to figure out XD
Simon is on a slow spiral into being a guntuber
Correction! Simon said the Webbley revolver was in service for 103 years. He also said it was in service from 1887 to 1970. Somebody there is math challenged. The time span from 1887 to 1970 is actually 83 years.
dunno if you know this but. 30-30 isn't a rare cart in america, its actually one of the most common lever action rifle carts.
30-30 niche? that round has been one of the top-selling cartridges in the U.S. for about 120 years. still wildly popular and available today... Still, thanks for the video, I get it... broad strokes
Simon just reads what's put in front of him. I think his scriptwriter was just taking the p**** by referring to 7.5x55mm Swiss and Winchester 30-30 as "niche". At the rate that Simon pumps out these videos the occasional quality slip (30x30?) is going to happen but the material is usually interesting.
@@IntrospectorGeneral Oh for sure... Not mad or upset. Most of the info was good; as an American raised with guns, though, I had to pause when he said possibly the most successful nonmilitary rounds in U.S. history was niche. Just amused, is all; otherwise a great video, as usual.
Check the InRange mud test on the P08 to see the “it’s outside parts make it jam” (@11:00) myth busted. Fun video
"Untold pennies in wasted rounds" 😂😂😂
Germany, Austria and Russia all using the same pistol? Imagine running low ... and searching an dead enemy officer for ammunition.
these ain´t obscure if you are a Forgotten Weapons enthusiast
Or if you played Battlefield 1 ❤
@@ChineseKiwiahh, a fellow fan!
Simon and Ian collab? Yes please
And have watched all C&Rsenal videos.
The Hellriegel on the other side, would count as obscure. As nobody alive has seen one in person and only 1 or two photos exist.
Now read the sentence you made and if you need to,google the words up,no participation award for you little buddy.
I am not going to say that there aren't any glocks that use "short recoil" action... might be some... but most of them use the Browning Tilting barrel action rather than "Short Recoil" barrel still moves but it is a different action
The first image of the "frommer stop" is a styer!
Thank you, Battlefield 1, for featuring ALL the guns in this video. ❤
When you're watch Simon, and get to see a cut of Mae shooting. Always good to Othias and Mae, and C&Rsenal making the rounds
30-30 is a VERY common and old deer cartridge in North America
Bit surprised you didn't have the Webley-Fosbery
Bro I’ve seen this guy on 3 different channels so far in 1 day😮😮
The kerning on “machine” is bugging the hell out of me!
The P08 was very good in the trenches. Nothing is actualy exposed and the tight tolerances keep shit outside where it belongs.
BATTLEFIELD 1 NOSTALGIA INTENSIFIES
my exact thought while watching this ! I’ve used some of these weapons lol
I still play two or three times a week.
@@b1646717 same! Such a great game . Like playing a movie video game
I still play it. Still plently of players around.
@@ChineseKiwi very active on pc , I’m sure on console as well
Paddy: What on earth is that?
Max: That my friend, is a German Broomhandle Mauser.
Paddy: I'm not using that...
Max: Why, what's wrong with it?
Paddy: It's an antique that's what it is.
Max: Hey. It's not an antique. There's nothing wrong with that. It was my granddad's. He shot a German with this.
Paddy: Was that in the Second World War?
Max: No, it were in Benidorme. He had a row over a sun lounger.
"Thirty by thirty Winchester?" Never heard of it. LOL
The Mondragon is hardly obscure for us Battlefield 1 medics 😛😇
Webley is still Golden. Best revolvers iv ever handled.
I feel called out on that intro
Don't correct Simon. He's British. They invented the language. They don't speak it very well but, damn it, it's their invention.
I think people get to caught up in the little things. He does a good job.
Yet somehow they still get some words incorrect. Such as aluminum. Which was a word coined by an American scientist. So yes the American version is the correct version.
To be fair, it's not that we like guns. We like precision machinery and admire how our technology can cage such incredible force.
Soo......we like guns.
You seem to have proven the point by way of trying to disprove it. 😂
@@leewilkinson6372 ok.. how was I trying to disprove anything? Our fascination with firearms stems from the same fascination with all manner of technology. It's proof of human nature.
@robertkerr4199 just a joke, my friend. Having a little fun! 😁
Yes, I am, in fact, a firearms enthusiast.
I have a warm fuzzy felling
Called the .30-30 Winchester a 'niche cartridge' 🤣
I get Battlefield 1 vibes
5 “obscure” guns…. **laughs in battlefield 1**
Oh can't wait till he talks about the WW2 dollar pistol
30-30 Winchester is a niche round? Um, no. It has taken more edible game in North American than any other cartridge.
the frommer stop title card doesn't feature the frommer stop lol it's the steyr hahn
No real surprise when videos on firearms do well when Simon has said before that his main audience is from the US LOL.
Looking down at “30.30” tattooed across my knuckles. “ niche cartridge”??
30 -30 has been a popular round in the United States since 1895 . A Lot of people still use it today
A small number of this rifle was in wwl used by french troops. There was somewhere in France a storehouse with some hundred rifles and ammunition, have read , this rifles had been given to some rearline soldiers , away from frontline.
Yup, nailed it. Other dodos in this comments section had the audacity to try to claim that cartridge wasn’t popular until after Vietnam and didn’t even really take off until the 1990’s. 😬
30-30 is not niche. It’s like the third most common hunting cartridge in the us. And tbh that makes it that through out the world.
Starfishes love booms, bangs and po...
"30 by 30 niche cartridge" oh boy, the comments gonna be poppin like a lever action
The 1911 is the Browning tilting barrel mechanism, not short recoil action.
It's both. Short recoil only means that barrel and slide move a short way back under recoil while locked together.
Which in the 1911 and most modern pistols equals to 2-3mm or so.
Long recoil means they travel the whole way back locked together and only unlock at the rear end of travel.
What then seperates the barrel and the slide is in the 1911's case the Browning tilting mechanism.
So it it both.
A Steyr M1912 on the other hand is also a short recoil, but not a Browning tilting barrel. (It turns the barrel to unlock so the barrel stays straight.)
Simons back...
We prefer his front ❤😂
could a good magnet rig system around a gun ever stop the recoil?
I just think Simon is funny and a great presenter regardless off the content. Its all good content across all the channels he is like his own tv network with different channels. News, history, comedy. 👍
For people who have ADHD and don't wanna watch the full video:
-Gun 1: Mondragon 1908
-Gun 2: The Webley Self Loading Pistol
-Gun 3: FN 1900
-Gun 4: Frommer Stop Pistol
-Gun 5: The Huot Automatic Rifle
Other than your goof regarding the .30-30 nomenclature and possibly the incorrect photo for the Frommer Stop, a solid video!
Military Grade =/= best quality/most effective
Military Grade = lowest cost for the requirements.