New Harleys are not worth the money. Harley Davidson did it to themselves. My 2014 Road King suits me just fine. Don’t need more HP either. How much faster do I want to go on a tourer
That doesn’t mean they are not worth the money. Having a 2014 that still rocks is great for customers. Means they last! I agree with not needing more HP. I have a 24 road glide and thing is a rocket.
@STATION26ADDISON I traded my 15 RGS two years ago for a19 Indian CL. No issues with it. No issues with the RGS. Both great bikes. Just needed a different vibe.
This I wanted to buy a 2024 Road Glide. Just the base model. It me dealership told $30,000. I said does this include shipping and other fees? They said that was MSRP. I said alright and walked out. Another Harley dealership told my the MSRP was $30,000. When I said that’s funny because on another website the dealer had it listed for $26,000, MSRP. They started back tracking. I said thanks but no thanks. I don’t like to deal with dishonest people.
Grey with chrome trim is 25999 plus destination charges and dealer fees. With my taxes that's 30 easy. If you want black on black or any other color with black trim you will be close to 28000 before any other fees and taxes. I'm sure they will be willing to take fees off as soon as the 25s show up. They will be desperate to get rid of the 24s.
I no longer care about what happens to Harley. The accountants and executive posers have just about destroyed it and very few folks can actually afford their product.
In the last three years 5 dealers have closed in my area. When you hire a woke ceo and board this is what happens - not just DEI, but pushing fake climate change caused them to get rid of the real sportster and add three bikes absolutely no one wants - Nightster, sportster s and live wire. Wokeness always costs revenue and jobs.
Exactly, looking forward to purchasing another EVO powered Harley. Not that I can’t afford a new Harley, I just refuse to pay for all the electronics that I don’t want.
I bought my bike in 2016 for 7800 it had 5k miles on it. I’ll stay away from dealers and their over priced crap. When the engine goes I’ll just rebuild it. I’ve never been into these new bikes with all the technology on them anyways.
@@Allium_369Back in the day I payed about 13k in 97 for an 883 hugger. Put another 4k into it. I haven’t ridden it in over 12 years. It’s now in my shed camouflaged in dust. 😂 Seriously though. 9k will get you a badass used Harley these days.
There are two Harley dealerships in my city. It's a cold climate so riding is mostly done for the year. The one dealership is sitting on a mountain of unsold new bikes. It's a huge showroom, the bikes couldn't be packed any tighter and there is no room for next years bikes. I don't have any insider information but one glance at the showroom leads me to conclude that they are in trouble. I assume that the motorcycle industry works like the car industry in that those unsold bikes show up on the HD financial statements as sold. They have been sold by HD to the dealer. The dealer finances those unsold machines with a floor plan until they are sold to a customer. My guess is that the 2025 HD sales numbers will fall off a cliff if what I see at my local dealer is common throughout the dealer network.
I'm here in Michigan and a lot of these dealers they're freaking floors are full...... I have two of them that keep calling me every other month to come down and check out their bikes..... they're reaching they've got no one to sell bikes to...... and I have a couple buddies that work for dealerships here in Michigan they actually left and went back to family businesses and because they couldn't sell shit and provide for their family
I just don’t like the direction that the touring bikes have gone , and if I were looking for another bike it would be a older model thanks for the information Mike
My local dealer was one of the small Mom and Pop stores that helped save Harley-Davidson back in the 1980's, and HD shut them down about 15 years ago after a nearby "Disneyland" dealer opened. I haven't bought a new Harley since.
Even if the economy was great right now. Who in the right mind would want to buy a motorcycle for 30 grand when you can only ride the damn thing in spring and summer.
Where you live and how motived you are to ride year round has a lot to do with it. I'm in Florida so it doesn't take much, when I lived in Texas it was pretty easy, when I lived in Pennsylvania it took some motivation. I rode year round in PA, more than most anyway, you need the right gear and heated electrics. The motived part is putting all the crap on that keeps you warm on and going out to ride, the inclination to just walk out and pour yourself into the cage can be strong.
Prices are too damn high… I sold my 2020 street glide 2 years ago and been wanting to get into a road glide but cannot fathom the price even for the used market…
Excellent point on market share as Harley literally dominates! Sales numbers are not only down for Harley Davidson , They are down for the entire Motorcycle industry ! It’s not price rather it’s getting the young people to get interested in buying a motorcycle and for that the entire industry needs to utilize influencers, sponsorships, and good old-fashioned advertising ! In this area Harley Davidson , who has the most powerful brand name of them all needs to flex their muscles and get with a campaign ASAP. That will only start after the CEO is terminated or resigns. The company needs new leadership desperately.
I believe your information is presented in a lucid, logical, well researched and understandable way. You obviously have a thorough understanding of the subject. Thank you
Appreciate that, I have been listening to the investor calls for over four years now and making videos on them so hopefully I’m getting a little better at presenting the information each time.
H-D will never sell as many bikes as in the 2000s. It's becoming a boutique manufacturer as they target more affluent consumers. I've been riding street bikes since 1981 but i can no longer afford most all new H-Ds. I'll let the RUBs buy them and turn them into affordable used bikes. But honestly, I'll probably only ever ride an EVO.
The real threat to the industry is the shrinking number of riders. That is caused by the increased number of accidents and fatalities. That is caused by the increased number of distracted drivers (Texting while driving) That is caused by lack of traffic laws and enforcement of existing laws. That is caused by lack of focus and priority by police and local governments . The industry does not focus enough energy $$$$ to stiffen the penalties for distracted drivers. The single greatest thing Harley could do to grow sales long term is to increase both national lobbying efforts and incentivize local dealerships and rider groups to improve and enforce traffic laws and the local levels. If this root cause is not addressed the market will continue to shrink and negatively affect the entire market.
All I need to know about the current state of Harley-Davidson motor company is to walk in a dealership, look around and it is obvious they are in trouble. Your lying eyes may lie to you, but your brain will tell you the truth if given a chance.
Excellent Vid Mike! When people hear the word "INFLATION" it means the amount of money supply in the US Economy, simple way to remember it is the amount of funny money that is printed and flooded into circulation. These numbers on HD Earnings report don't reflect person "INFLATION." You can see declining sales and this report can be a simple YOY growth calculator. The true measure of the market all comes down to us, our INFLATION. Gas used to be $1.45 a gallon, and the media says our costs has risen 8-9%, if this were true my gas should only be $1.58, not $3.45 which is a rise of 245%. With interest rates having come down a 0.25% that may spark someone to purchase a bike, but after the election rates may come down 1% which will heat up the economy. Our personal inflation needs to drop, food, gas, utilities and everything else to boot. Sorry for the rant Mike, thank you for this channel.
I live in Tulsa Oklahoma and there are two dealerships in town. They are both still packed with bikes! One of them had to remove the parts counter to make room for bikes and also push them over into the clothing area. There are deals to be made right now! It's really hard not to try a 24 SG right now! If i didn't love my FXLRS so much, i would. Point is, they are drastically overstocked.
I bought the last bike Taboo sold. Just think what I thought when I was out of town and transferred the money to pay for the bike and the next day I see on Facebook they were closed, and I could not get there for 10 days! I spoke with the GM and he assured me that the bike was safe and would be ready when I could get in there. The company kept the service team and GM on until the service work was finished, and all bikes was picked up. It sucks as I have purchased bikes from them for at least the last 15 years and now have to build new relationships with another dealer.
Good report Mike. I hate to see dealerships closing because that reflects the status of the industry as a whole and the Harley-Davidson climate. The numbers will change with the economy improving and the cost-of-living stabilization hopefully fueled by the election results - time will tell. Glad you are enjoying your new ride. Stay safe and hope to see you on the roads. 🤜🏼
NFN, I was showing my GOV class the electoral map of California and there were lots of light shades of red and blue. Some places in Cali would make rural Missouri look downright urban!
As long as that CEO and board members are in control, I will never buy new anything from a dealership, especially after mine got bought out and moved out, thank God the head mechanic from there opened up a shop right down the road from me, at least we have an Indian dealer in town
Just picked up a new to me, 2-owner 25k mile ‘97 FLHT. Gonna just do a light update on it and I’m gonna ride the heck out of this bike. She’s goin to Sturgis in ‘24. It’ll be the first time I don’t take a late model and I’m lookin forward to it. I’m trying to get away from all the losses I’ve been taking by gettin new bike every 3yrs.
HD pulled the franchise from the dealership because they wanted it sold to a corporation and they forced another one near me to sell to a corporation and this garbage is going to continue till the CEO and the Board of directors is fire and these corporations don’t care if they damage your bike and neither does HD corporate .
Maybe you are not telling the whole story? (Bloomberg) -- Harley-Davidson Inc.’s motorcycle shipments fell in the latest quarter on lower demand for its high-margin bikes, prompting a downward revision in its full-year forecast. The company on Thursday trimmed its 2024 outlook, projecting motorcycle revenue down 14% to 16% and operating profit margins between 7.5% and 8.5%. It had previously forecast a 5% to 9% decline in motorcycle revenue and a margin of 10.6% to 11.6% for the full year. The company said in July that it planed to cut dealer inventory by about 30% in the second half of the year after facing allegations from a group of US dealerships that they were hurting dealer profits by shipping too many bikes during a slow period.
In my country, about 90% of all new car sales are electric vehicles this year, but even here they struggle to sell electric motorcycles. And we have the infrastructure, charging points all over the place. I drive an electric car, and absolutely love it, but my bike is an ICE like almost all the other bikes on the roads here. HD sales keep going down year after year though, their market share is under 2% now. My local dealer shut down years ago, well they didn't shut down, they just stopped selling HD, they are doing quite well selling other brands. It's a shame.
Mike, when a dealer suddenly closes, it’s usually a bank foreclosure. It’s not a H-D H.O decision. A business owner usually tries to keep what’s coming up quiet in hopes he will make it through the storm and the last person you want them to hear of it is H-D corp so you can still get your orders in. The planned H-D closure are the ones who announce a closure date as their agreement with corp will not be renewed on a fixed date.
I figured as much but don’t want to guess at things too much. But as I understand it HD gets some sales business data from the dealers so they can see dealers that aren’t doing well to some level? My assumption is they know some dealers aren’t healthy and would like to trim them before it gets to this point.
stop lying to people dude!!! Just checked their website and they have 2024 Street Glides for $24,999 that are PRE-OWNED!!!! 😂 Not brand new at all!! Thats a pre-owned price lmao it even says that price was taken down from $28,199!!!
Did you call them? If you are seriously looking why don’t you call them? If you knew anything about HD you would know that Some prices they can’t advertise.
Congrats on the new ride. I'm in Lakeview, Arkansas so Renegade is my " local" dealer also. Why didn't Taboo HD just downsize? Could have "right sized" to a similar size like Gold Rush HD in Elko Nevada, great dealership by the way. It is just a small metal building but services a very large area. Not like the super huge overhead palatal palace/ cookie cutter design dealerships that corporate HD envisions. HD market share is and has been stable for years, they are not going out of business any time soon. Fluctuations are due to the economy and less riders overall and covid also made a mess for a few years. Once HD realizes a change of leadership / vision is needed it would help also. My questions for the future of HD are more along the lines of: 1) What are they spending the R & D budget on? The next large cc displacement motor generation, will it finally be fully liquid cooled? 2) Thailand imports of the smaller cc bikes. Will they split the company off into small liquid cooled, rev max motors imports and keep large cc air cooled stateside? Make Thai bikes "a division of" like live wire? 3) Dealerships. They seem to be going the route of cookie cutter design/ zero personality/ ginormous palaces. I prefer just the opposite. I like when they reflect the region they service/ local flair and heritage for lack of a better explanation. 4) Hourly shop rates. $185 an hour. Holy heck, a new rider will get sticker shock.
I'm 59 years old, been riding for 18+ years and finally purchased my first Harley Davidson Motorcycle. 2024 Street Glide, WOW ! What a time to get into Harley Davidson!!! 😃😃😃 Amazing Machines! The 117 Motor is incredible! 😎
second comment, a huge chunk of the lost sales are from the Sportster category, even the Pan America sales have plummeted. As for electric motorcycles, Energica filed for liquidation in October and they probably had the best electric motorcycles available. However their failure is from the parent company running out of money where the motorcycle group had more orders than they could fill.
I walked past a Harley shop in Victoria, Texas and saw a basic motorcycle priced at $10,500. I kept walking. They have to be kidding. An engine, frame, two wheels, two tires, two instruments, one handle bar, one seat, one gas tank. = $10,500? Never.
Actually they do, they list revenue which is based on sales to dealers, they disclose shipments which is to dealerships and retail sales which are to the public by dealers. Each are provided separately.
Went to my local dealer to look into a stage 2 on my 2023 RGS. When I saw the price I was hesitant, before I left, they offered me an almost $600 “winter special” discount 😎
You need to take that large cruiser share in context with the number of units delivered, meaning being up percentage wise in a market that shows a downward trend just means their competitors fared worse. Harley shipped 22k less units in Q3 this year as compared to last year and sales were down 5k world wide with half of that loss in the US. Now inventory decreased 8k units between Q2 and Q3 which probably meant a lot of 2023 stock was finally sold at discount. Livewire's impact on the bottom line is meaningless, its an investment in the future.
Market share is based on retail sales as I understand it, units shipped is not retail sales. Market share does indicate how they faired vs the competition and that was my point sales are down but market share isn’t so HD is fairing better than the competition.
If they offered a lightweight bagger with the 121 and very little tech, bare bones, they would kill it. I think I just described the low rider st though lol
@@marvelharris9540 my wife tours on a sport glide with a Stock 107, she kept up with my 103 stage 1 no problem but I get wanting the latest engine as well.
When I buy a new HD(last was a '23 FXLRS), I also buy 10% of the purchase price in common stock of HD...just a silly thing I do. I think HD has the capacity to make way too many motorcycles for the market they have. It isn't the good 'ole days for the OEM when every machine was desperately wanted with a buyer ready to pay over MSRP. HD is grinding out far more machines than the market wants. Harleys hold their value? Nope. Not anymore. To many of the damned things. Sorry HD, make better and more desirable machines or die. One cannot live on TShirts alone.
Those numbers don’t sound very good. I will say it again. There needs to be a change in the CEO & the BOD. The future is not in the Shorted Out Wire With Trump winning, maybe he can get control of the out of control EPA and we can get a version of the Sportster back in the 10K range for new HD riders.
Interest rates, cost of living prices are out of control are the problem buying a motorcycle. By the way the EVO engine didn’t meet European emissions either so that is worldwide problem for Harley Davidson, it’s just not the EPA.
Im out on harley till management is changed. So far have put over 1k on my pursuit in less than a month and very happy. Stays like this and i might not be back.
You have some great stickers behind you. I bought my bike from Fredrick Maryland from a dealership that soon closed afterwords maybe that’s why they gave me such a good deal. But I believe HD is knocking out the owner operator in favor of corporate ownership that’s just my $.02
Several motorcycle shops closed this year here or amalgamated. We have now two big dealers and maybe 2 small shops BMW are now run out of the car dealers the only ones doing well is Enfield who just expanded. As an owner of a 2017 Iron 883 I can confirm they have lost their way and the bikes are way too expensive for normal people.
Mike, this was some good information as always. I cannot see why anyone would think you are full of it. You put out information that no one else seem too and it's honest! I hate to see any dealership close down, over just plain bad management and corporate greed. I don't see why they can't figure out, that the guy in charge, must Hate America and wants Harley to fail. Paying someone 29 million per year when sale are down makes no sense. I think You I could run the company for a couple million a pieces. Don't see how we could do any worst and Harley in already saving money. Just saying. Put an American in charge of Harley. I still say that Harley Does Not Have More Than $8000.00 in producing these touring models and that includes the hourly salaries and benefits!!! So go back to 2014 prices and sell more units. After Trump gets everything back on track, selling these bikes for $24,000.00 - 25,000.00 Out The Door should move lots of units. But Harley also has to a stop the price gouging at the dealerships too. Maybe Harley could reward the dealership with bonuses with X amount of sales.
Here is the dirty little secret that people haven't figured out yet. Harley wants their prices high enough so people have to finance the bikes, they make money off the sale then more money of the finance interest. HDFS was the only division that was in the black last quarter. Think about it.
Any thoughts as to the pricing on the '24 Road King Special and why it almost costs as much as the new Street Glide? Is the RKS more expensive to manufacture?
I honestly expect the significantly on the new touring models next year. I think this year was a fire sale to get them out on the road and let people experience them and be able to tell their friends about how great they are to increase sales in future years, and if that’s the case, it would make sense why they didn’t drop the price of the special and things will align better again next year.
HD ....Just lost a $290 million Law suite in NY I believe There was a flaw In the trike line .... .they knew it but didn't say anything or do anything.... 2 people crashed cause of it and got paid $290 mill..
Whats worse in the case of the side car motor cycle that crashed is that it wasn't the first time!! The same problem happened on the same bike causing a crash. No one was killed the first time it happened. The dealership made the repairs and said the bike was "fixed"! The same problem happened again with one of the brakes suddenly locking up causing another crash. This time the guys girl friend riding in the side car was killed!! So ya, Harley desereves to be sued! 😞
You pretty much get what you pay for. Aside from costs is it exactly what you want. Is quality and resale value good, would you be happier on other motorcycle? If l couldn't afford my Roadking ld bought a used Sportster.I know what l like, it may not be for everyone but ld accept more weight lower powered motors to have what l love
The first Trump 4 years he put tariffs on products that directly impacted HD, John Deere. DJT made a big issue on HD so the EU responded to the tariffs he imposed by putting a31% tariff on HD bikes, HDs 2nd biggest markets. Hit Harley really hard - cost up+ tariffs on EU sales. Sales plummeted
I think all of the dealers should close. Why do we need this middle man at this point. I was on Harley's site a while ago. Curious about what i could get selling my bike. Not 30 seconds later i got a call from my local dealer pressuring me to come in for an appointment. I called back and let him know i changed my mind on selling my bike. Continued to push for an appraisal so i just cut them off at that point. These mofos seriously left about 30 messages on my phone over the next few weeks. Changing numbers, sales reps etc. unreal. They can all go away as far as im concerned.
my inside source, harley is worried about new riders they buy a bike and sell within 3 years and never buy another. I will never buy a newer harley, I hate the GPS, abs, computer screen etc. The engines get bigger but go less miles per tank. I will stick with my older ones. I can repair them myself. even picked up a used sportster to add to my other bikes, it is a 1200 and fun to ride with the bigger tank
For me its value. I had been waiting for 5+ years for HD to release a Bagger product that had good performance and technology. They finally came out with the ST that checked a lot of boxes but priced it at $50K+ and it didnt even come with a passenger seat. Even with all of the Carbon parts the Bike is only worth about 30k at best. I ended up finally getting my bagger to supplement my HD VROD and it was a BMW K1600B. 28K brand new fully loaded with custom paint and outperforms HD in every way. It doesnt have the sound of a Harley but Im not paying 20k+ for sound/brand with far less features and performance. HD IMO will continue to struggle and will be bleeding customers until they start competing in price/performance. Fit and finish are great but really thats the only thing they have on other "American" brands. They still sell due to brand name at this point IMO. People see it as a status symbol and want to "fit in". As people stop caring about that they will move on to better and less expensive brands.
Harley has done permanent damage to their brand. This is not the Harley of just 5 years ago. I think this version of HD will either get acquired by a larger company or will go bankrupt.
Mike, I feel for ya. 12? 13 Dealerships in Missouri (that's where you are, correct?) and not one within an hour and a half? Rural in CT and MO are quite a different animal. People crap on CT a lot, so, please forgive me for sharing one of the many things I love about my home state, k? I am as rural as it gets in southern CT, horse and cattle ranches within 1000 yards of my front door. We only got our first street light 10 years ago and that after a horrible accident. Anyway we have six dealerships in CT; two are just over an hour, two about 45 minutes and the other two are just about 35 minutes away. In just CT, MA, and RI there are 10 dealerships within two hours. Four more are within three hours and New York would add four more within three hours. JS! ;)
I am in southern central MO. I have 4 about 1.5 to 2 hrs in STL. There is another about 1.5 hrs away but never had much luck trying to deal with them. After that it’s about 3 to 3.5 hrs to pick up another 3 or 4 in KC.
Averages are tricky and potentially very misleading measures. For example, an average of 45 (of whatever) could represent a bunching of whatever is being measured at both ends of the unit range with nothing in the middle (i.e. a bunch towards the low end, and another bunch towards the high end, and nothing in the middle). So an average age of 45 years could reflect a bunch of teens and early 20 somethings, and another bunch of 60 and 70 somethings, and no one in their thirties or forties or fifties. There is an assumption of a normal distribution but it is only an assumption and in reality can be and often is an entirely different distribution - one that is not at all reflected in the "average" figure given as representative of the distribution in question.
I just turned 60 and I ride a Suzuki m109r and refuse to spend more than $15k for a motorcycle. I see no attractive Harley Davidson below the Cruiser/Touring models and their pricing is $20-40k for such bikes is crazy. The latest and greatest is not very affordable anymore if I can buy dependable in great shape elsewhere..
There's been a number of Harley Davidson dealers closing by me. Not one dealer announced a sale. Not one! Their inventory was absorbed by the mega dealers that took over. Most of the closed stores only posted their situation a day or so prior to the actual shutdown. They don't care about their customers, so I in turn don't care about them. Or Harley Davidson in particular. If that's how Harley Davidson is going to operate, I'll let my motorcycle license expire. I got my license thru work, because I needed it at the time. I don't now. My position has changed, and the bikes are gone. Say goodbye Harley Davidson. You did this to yourself.
Got to say HD is starting to make me question their dedication to customers. I have a friend who bought a 2023 Tri glide with less than 3000 miles. Dealer said the owner said it was too big for him. Anyway in less than a few thousand miles his clutch went out. HD would not cover it saying it was a wear item. $800 later he made a couple of long trips and again the clutch is out. Again HD Said it would not cover it. Dealer said they needed to pull the motor to correct the problem but HD will not cover it. This guy has owned more than 20 Harleys and is a very experience rider. No way is it operator error. I can’t believe HD won’t cover a problem that is obviously an internal problem. So much for Harley Davidson!
It's not hard to gain market share in the touring category when you only have Indian and Goldwing to compete with. The metric manufacturers canceled all Touring bikes several years back, and now HD is starting to see and feel that. The last thing is that the new design isn't selling as well as you want to believe. Pretty simple just ask the dealers, the 23 are selling at huge discounts because most dealers are full with them.
@ I saw a lot more new models than I expected at Bikefest and BBB. Considering that sales are down I was truely surprised by the amount of them. I do see and Indian now and then
I'm a simple guy and have a question. What difference does market share make when you're talking about financials? If you're losing money, you're losing money regardless of whether you have 10, or 90% of the market share. At least that's the way I see it. Please, someone educate me.
Ok my take on it, first they aren’t losing money but sales are down. Sales are down are the headlines but they are leaving out that sales are down for the industry and HD is doing better than the competition based on market share gain. These headlines affect market analyst ratings for stock which can affect stock price. I try to present the good and bad. Does that explain the why I think it’s important?
@ actually it is new. As Monty’s closed. Completely out of business. This dealer then got authorization from Harley to open they are currently in the same spot HOWEVER they are building a completely new dealership. I won’t even use them as I’m happy where I go.
@ actually it is not, Monty’s is now Revolution Road net neutral number, The Motor Company has no net gain in dealers. So I guess you’re just saying the building is new.
The screen doesn’t run the bike, all the guages been controlled by a computer for years we are just using a digital screen over a digital gauge now. It’s different for sure but it doesn’t change how the bike operates except my ride modes and those are controlled by a switch not the screen. The screen does allow for a custom ride mode
6:30 - To this day, I cannot understand how folks stay in California whether business or personal. Financially speaking it seems like businesses and residents get screwed on taxes and incentives - unless you're below the poverty level. 8:20 - Well, as a state, California is the 5TH LARGEST economy in THE WORLD. The Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) is the second largest school system in the U.S. second only to NYC. 10:12-Hey Mike, isn't this a bit inaccurate? The slides read, "motorcycle shipments," but there's a difference between what HD shipped out and what consumers actually bought, right? I continuously hear dealerships tell me that when they get a delivery truck, it's not always the dealership's order. It's more like what corporate is sending them (a polite way of saying corporate is shoving bikes down dealerships' throats). I may be 100% wrong here so feel free to educate me or even expand on this if it's partially accurate.
I've been riding motorcycles for 40 years Harley-Davidson is trying to sell you less of a motorcycle for more money yes they have more power and they handle pretty decent now but the rest of the bike is garbage
Always appreciate your perspective and inside view of things, but fear decline of HD will accelerate. Woke CEO and governance members have no clue how to turn things around, much less a willingness to embrace the HD heritage. Four HDs in my garage, no intention of buying a new one unless company changes direction.
All the dealership will eventually close down until there is transparency in pricing and fair deals for everyone involved. The egotistical, arrogant, dishonesty and price gouging has to stop and they need to start treating their core customers like family again. What a shitty business model they got going now.
I'm from Europe. Wy I'm paying alot for a harley davidson, If it is not made in the US. If its not made in the US it is not a harley davidson. Drive harley,over 40 years
Market share does not mean sales or money in the bank. Overall, motorcycle sales in the USA continue to fall and HD sales continue to go down. Many competators years ago have become more diversified and offer other fun toys such as atv's and utv's. HD just offers the same old crap year after year. I've been riding since 1968 and I could care less if HD is to ignorant and arrogant to realize their major down falls.
That CEO is like putting Richard Simmons in charge of a bakery
Harley is too expensive for the average blue collar guy who is also trying to raise a family.
Amen brother.
Buy used
Hi
It is expensive but it is a lot of bike too. I have a 24 road glide and love it.
@ the RG and SG are freakin sweet!! I’m just salty for us RK lovers. 🤘😎
New Harleys are not worth the money. Harley Davidson did it to themselves. My 2014 Road King suits me just fine. Don’t need more HP either. How much faster do I want to go on a tourer
I have a 2014 road king also. Love the bike! Will not be trading anytime soon. Probably will get too old to ride before I trade.
That doesn’t mean they are not worth the money. Having a 2014 that still rocks is great for customers. Means they last! I agree with not needing more HP. I have a 24 road glide and thing is a rocket.
@@jimmyccee1083 look into a torque cam
Im over with the whole HD thing!
You could go buy an Indian but they're almost just expensive and I think they have more problems than Harley
@STATION26ADDISON I traded my 15 RGS two years ago for a19 Indian CL. No issues with it. No issues with the RGS. Both great bikes. Just needed a different vibe.
This I wanted to buy a 2024 Road Glide. Just the base model. It me dealership told $30,000. I said does this include shipping and other fees? They said that was MSRP. I said alright and walked out. Another Harley dealership told my the MSRP was $30,000. When I said that’s funny because on another website the dealer had it listed for $26,000, MSRP. They started back tracking. I said thanks but no thanks. I don’t like to deal with dishonest people.
All dealers try to get more money for their bikes, unfortunately that's the way it is. But if they really want a sale, they will come down in price
I agree that they need to money. Just tell me the truth on the MSRP
24,999 at Southaven Mississippi
Ask for Erik
Grey with chrome trim is 25999 plus destination charges and dealer fees. With my taxes that's 30 easy. If you want black on black or any other color with black trim you will be close to 28000 before any other fees and taxes. I'm sure they will be willing to take fees off as soon as the 25s show up. They will be desperate to get rid of the 24s.
Ask for Eric
I no longer care about what happens to Harley. The accountants and executive posers have just about destroyed it and very few folks can actually afford their product.
In the last three years 5 dealers have closed in my area. When you hire a woke ceo and board this is what happens - not just DEI, but pushing fake climate change caused them to get rid of the real sportster and add three bikes absolutely no one wants - Nightster, sportster s and live wire. Wokeness always costs revenue and jobs.
Exactly, looking forward to purchasing another EVO powered Harley. Not that I can’t afford a new Harley, I just refuse to pay for all the electronics that I don’t want.
2 months ago I purchased a Street Glide Special from a private seller. I don’t deal with the dealerships anymore unless I have to.
I bought my bike in 2016 for 7800 it had 5k miles on it. I’ll stay away from dealers and their over priced crap. When the engine goes I’ll just rebuild it.
I’ve never been into these new bikes with all the technology on them anyways.
@@Allium_369Back in the day I payed about 13k in 97 for an 883 hugger. Put another 4k into it. I haven’t ridden it in over 12 years. It’s now in my shed camouflaged in dust. 😂 Seriously though. 9k will get you a badass used Harley these days.
There are two Harley dealerships in my city. It's a cold climate so riding is mostly done for the year. The one dealership is sitting on a mountain of unsold new bikes. It's a huge showroom, the bikes couldn't be packed any tighter and there is no room for next years bikes. I don't have any insider information but one glance at the showroom leads me to conclude that they are in trouble. I assume that the motorcycle industry works like the car industry in that those unsold bikes show up on the HD financial statements as sold. They have been sold by HD to the dealer. The dealer finances those unsold machines with a floor plan until they are sold to a customer. My guess is that the 2025 HD sales numbers will fall off a cliff if what I see at my local dealer is common throughout the dealer network.
@@jimbroen my local dealers have new 2023’s, 2024’s and now 2025’s. And you can buy a new 2025 for less than 2023(some models)
I'm here in Michigan and a lot of these dealers they're freaking floors are full...... I have two of them that keep calling me every other month to come down and check out their bikes..... they're reaching they've got no one to sell bikes to...... and I have a couple buddies that work for dealerships here in Michigan they actually left and went back to family businesses and because they couldn't sell shit and provide for their family
I just don’t like the direction that the touring bikes have gone , and if I were looking for another bike it would be a older model thanks for the information Mike
I agree
My local dealer was one of the small Mom and Pop stores that helped save Harley-Davidson back in the 1980's, and HD shut them down about 15 years ago after a nearby "Disneyland" dealer opened. I haven't bought a new Harley since.
Even if the economy was great right now. Who in the right mind would want to buy a motorcycle for 30 grand when you can only ride the damn thing in spring and summer.
Spring and summer? Maybe the fair weather rider. I’m still riding in November.
I ride year round and people are picking up new models for 25k out the door in some markets
Where you live and how motived you are to ride year round has a lot to do with it. I'm in Florida so it doesn't take much, when I lived in Texas it was pretty easy, when I lived in Pennsylvania it took some motivation. I rode year round in PA, more than most anyway, you need the right gear and heated electrics. The motived part is putting all the crap on that keeps you warm on and going out to ride, the inclination to just walk out and pour yourself into the cage can be strong.
@@BrianTimm-v1y me! Lol
I rode my new bike home with snow on the ground. 😂
Prices are too damn high… I sold my 2020 street glide 2 years ago and been wanting to get into a road glide but cannot fathom the price even for the used market…
Excellent point on market share as Harley literally dominates! Sales numbers are not only down for Harley Davidson , They are down for the entire Motorcycle industry ! It’s not price rather it’s getting the young people to get interested in buying a motorcycle and for that the entire industry needs to utilize influencers, sponsorships, and good old-fashioned advertising ! In this area Harley Davidson , who has the most powerful brand name of them all needs to flex their muscles and get with a campaign ASAP. That will only start after the CEO is terminated or resigns. The company needs new leadership desperately.
For me is price. Absolutely.
I believe your information is presented in a lucid, logical, well researched and understandable way. You obviously have a thorough understanding of the subject. Thank you
Appreciate that, I have been listening to the investor calls for over four years now and making videos on them so hopefully I’m getting a little better at presenting the information each time.
And you don't have a fucking clue.
H-D will never sell as many bikes as in the 2000s. It's becoming a boutique manufacturer as they target more affluent consumers. I've been riding street bikes since 1981 but i can no longer afford most all new H-Ds. I'll let the RUBs buy them and turn them into affordable used bikes. But honestly, I'll probably only ever ride an EVO.
The real threat to the industry is the shrinking number of riders. That is caused by the increased number of accidents and fatalities. That is caused by the increased number of distracted drivers (Texting while driving) That is caused by lack of traffic laws and enforcement of existing laws. That is caused by lack of focus and priority by police and local governments . The industry does not focus enough energy $$$$ to stiffen the penalties for distracted drivers. The single greatest thing Harley could do to grow sales long term is to increase both national lobbying efforts and incentivize local dealerships and rider groups to improve and enforce traffic laws and the local levels. If this root cause is not addressed the market will continue to shrink and negatively affect the entire market.
All I need to know about the current state of Harley-Davidson motor company is to walk in a dealership, look around and it is obvious they are in trouble.
Your lying eyes may lie to you, but your brain will tell you the truth if given a chance.
It would be interesting to know how much the gains of HDFS are the result of dealership floorplans.
The dealerships are franchises. Their selling practices, pricing, attitudes have to be looked at differently than the Motor Company.
Excellent Vid Mike! When people hear the word "INFLATION" it means the amount of money supply in the US Economy, simple way to remember it is the amount of funny money that is printed and flooded into circulation. These numbers on HD Earnings report don't reflect person "INFLATION." You can see declining sales and this report can be a simple YOY growth calculator. The true measure of the market all comes down to us, our INFLATION. Gas used to be $1.45 a gallon, and the media says our costs has risen 8-9%, if this were true my gas should only be $1.58, not $3.45 which is a rise of 245%. With interest rates having come down a 0.25% that may spark someone to purchase a bike, but after the election rates may come down 1% which will heat up the economy. Our personal inflation needs to drop, food, gas, utilities and everything else to boot. Sorry for the rant Mike, thank you for this channel.
I live in Tulsa Oklahoma and there are two dealerships in town. They are both still packed with bikes! One of them had to remove the parts counter to make room for bikes and also push them over into the clothing area. There are deals to be made right now! It's really hard not to try a 24 SG right now! If i didn't love my FXLRS so much, i would. Point is, they are drastically overstocked.
Maybe there, not at my dealership. Dealers here had great sales numbers during the rallies here in September
I purchased a HD because of the large dealer network as I had considered travel and the need for breakdown service. That is now slipping away.
I bought the last bike Taboo sold. Just think what I thought when I was out of town and transferred the money to pay for the bike and the next day I see on Facebook they were closed, and I could not get there for 10 days! I spoke with the GM and he assured me that the bike was safe and would be ready when I could get in there. The company kept the service team and GM on until the service work was finished, and all bikes was picked up. It sucks as I have purchased bikes from them for at least the last 15 years and now have to build new relationships with another dealer.
Thanks for the insight, glad everyone got there ride back! Congrats on the bike.
Good report Mike. I hate to see dealerships closing because that reflects the status of the industry as a whole and the Harley-Davidson climate. The numbers will change with the economy improving and the cost-of-living stabilization hopefully fueled by the election results - time will tell. Glad you are enjoying your new ride. Stay safe and hope to see you on the roads. 🤜🏼
NFN, I was showing my GOV class the electoral map of California and there were lots of light shades of red and blue. Some places in Cali would make rural Missouri look downright urban!
@@highwayman1218 LOL, I wasn't applauding it, just pointing it out. Red today is by no means red in 1988
My local family HD dealership just sold out. They had 2 dealerships. As of Nov 1st they are gone. Now under a group that had 5 dealerships, now 7.
Too expensive. Most people can’t afford one and the dentist already all have a HD
I have 3 HD's dealers in Dayton and Xenia. All 3 are w/i 12 miles. The only Bike dealers closing around here are Kawasaki and Hondas
Three HD dealers that close isn't sustainable. Hide and watch.
As long as that CEO and board members are in control, I will never buy new anything from a dealership, especially after mine got bought out and moved out, thank God the head mechanic from there opened up a shop right down the road from me, at least we have an Indian dealer in town
Just picked up a new to me, 2-owner 25k mile ‘97 FLHT. Gonna just do a light update on it and I’m gonna ride the heck out of this bike. She’s goin to Sturgis in ‘24. It’ll be the first time I don’t take a late model and I’m lookin forward to it. I’m trying to get away from all the losses I’ve been taking by gettin new bike every 3yrs.
HD pulled the franchise from the dealership because they wanted it sold to a corporation and they forced another one near me to sell to a corporation and this garbage is going to continue till the CEO and the Board of directors is fire and these corporations don’t care if they damage your bike and neither does HD corporate .
Maybe you are not telling the whole story? (Bloomberg) -- Harley-Davidson Inc.’s motorcycle shipments fell in the latest quarter on lower demand for its high-margin bikes, prompting a downward revision in its full-year forecast.
The company on Thursday trimmed its 2024 outlook, projecting motorcycle revenue down 14% to 16% and operating profit margins between 7.5% and 8.5%. It had previously forecast a 5% to 9% decline in motorcycle revenue and a margin of 10.6% to 11.6% for the full year. The company said in July that it planed to cut dealer inventory by about 30% in the second half of the year after facing allegations from a group of US dealerships that they were hurting dealer profits by shipping too many bikes during a slow period.
Good video. Good analysis. Well done.
Thanks Mike, really good info. I do enjoy your explanation of the quarterly numbers. Keep it up.
In my country, about 90% of all new car sales are electric vehicles this year, but even here they struggle to sell electric motorcycles. And we have the infrastructure, charging points all over the place. I drive an electric car, and absolutely love it, but my bike is an ICE like almost all the other bikes on the roads here.
HD sales keep going down year after year though, their market share is under 2% now. My local dealer shut down years ago, well they didn't shut down, they just stopped selling HD, they are doing quite well selling other brands. It's a shame.
Where do you live?
Electric cars are a dying fad here in the us. The whole electric car thing is a scam
Mike, when a dealer suddenly closes, it’s usually a bank foreclosure. It’s not a H-D H.O decision. A business owner usually tries to keep what’s coming up quiet in hopes he will make it through the storm and the last person you want them to hear of it is H-D corp so you can still get your orders in. The planned H-D closure are the ones who announce a closure date as their agreement with corp will not be renewed on a fixed date.
I figured as much but don’t want to guess at things too much. But as I understand it HD gets some sales business data from the dealers so they can see dealers that aren’t doing well to some level? My assumption is they know some dealers aren’t healthy and would like to trim them before it gets to this point.
New 2024s are 24,999 at Southaven in Mississippi!
Only saw used 2024 at that price point.
Just left there. Give them a call.
either buy at that otd or walk
stop lying to people dude!!! Just checked their website and they have 2024 Street Glides for $24,999 that are PRE-OWNED!!!! 😂
Not brand new at all!! Thats a pre-owned price lmao it even says that price was taken down from $28,199!!!
Did you call them? If you are seriously looking why don’t you call them? If you knew anything about HD you would know that Some prices they can’t advertise.
Congrats on the new ride. I'm in Lakeview, Arkansas so Renegade is my " local" dealer also.
Why didn't Taboo HD just downsize? Could have "right sized" to a similar size like Gold Rush HD in Elko Nevada, great dealership by the way. It is just a small metal building but services a very large area. Not like the super huge overhead palatal palace/ cookie cutter design dealerships that corporate HD envisions.
HD market share is and has been stable for years, they are not going out of business any time soon. Fluctuations are due to the economy and less riders overall and covid also made a mess for a few years.
Once HD realizes a change of leadership / vision is needed it would help also.
My questions for the future of HD are more along the lines of:
1) What are they spending the R & D budget on? The next large cc displacement motor generation, will it finally be fully liquid cooled?
2) Thailand imports of the smaller cc bikes. Will they split the company off into small liquid cooled, rev max motors imports and keep large cc air cooled stateside? Make Thai bikes "a division of" like live wire?
3) Dealerships. They seem to be going the route of cookie cutter design/ zero personality/ ginormous palaces. I prefer just the opposite. I like when they reflect the region they service/ local flair and heritage for lack of a better explanation.
4) Hourly shop rates. $185 an hour. Holy heck, a new rider will get sticker shock.
@@qthebikeahaulic thanks! Good question!
I'm 59 years old, been riding for 18+ years and finally purchased my first Harley Davidson Motorcycle. 2024 Street Glide, WOW ! What a time to get into Harley Davidson!!! 😃😃😃 Amazing Machines! The 117 Motor is incredible! 😎
second comment, a huge chunk of the lost sales are from the Sportster category, even the Pan America sales have plummeted. As for electric motorcycles, Energica filed for liquidation in October and they probably had the best electric motorcycles available. However their failure is from the parent company running out of money where the motorcycle group had more orders than they could fill.
I walked past a Harley shop in Victoria, Texas and saw a basic motorcycle priced at $10,500. I kept walking. They have to be kidding. An engine, frame, two wheels, two tires, two instruments, one handle bar, one seat, one gas tank. = $10,500? Never.
What harley davidson doesn't tell us in those financial reports, is that most of those sales are to the dealerships, not to the customers.
Actually they do, they list revenue which is based on sales to dealers, they disclose shipments which is to dealerships and retail sales which are to the public by dealers. Each are provided separately.
Went to my local dealer to look into a stage 2 on my 2023 RGS. When I saw the price I was hesitant, before I left, they offered me an almost $600 “winter special” discount 😎
Did you pull the trigger?
You need to take that large cruiser share in context with the number of units delivered, meaning being up percentage wise in a market that shows a downward trend just means their competitors fared worse. Harley shipped 22k less units in Q3 this year as compared to last year and sales were down 5k world wide with half of that loss in the US. Now inventory decreased 8k units between Q2 and Q3 which probably meant a lot of 2023 stock was finally sold at discount. Livewire's impact on the bottom line is meaningless, its an investment in the future.
There is no future for live wire. No one wants an electric motorcycle and it’s impossible to make them economically viable.
Market share is based on retail sales as I understand it, units shipped is not retail sales. Market share does indicate how they faired vs the competition and that was my point sales are down but market share isn’t so HD is fairing better than the competition.
I liked the older dealerships that did not look like a resort selling merchandise.
The death of the dyna was the death of Harley in my book
My dealership closed a few years ago, it’s now a DMV😂😂
If they offered a lightweight bagger with the 121 and very little tech, bare bones, they would kill it. I think I just described the low rider st though lol
@@marvelharris9540 my wife tours on a sport glide with a Stock 107, she kept up with my 103 stage 1 no problem but I get wanting the latest engine as well.
When I buy a new HD(last was a '23 FXLRS), I also buy 10% of the purchase price in common stock of HD...just a silly thing I do. I think HD has the capacity to make way too many motorcycles for the market they have. It isn't the good 'ole days for the OEM when every machine was desperately wanted with a buyer ready to pay over MSRP. HD is grinding out far more machines than the market wants. Harleys hold their value? Nope. Not anymore. To many of the damned things. Sorry HD, make better and more desirable machines or die. One cannot live on TShirts alone.
Those numbers don’t sound very good. I will say it again. There needs to be a change in the CEO & the BOD. The future is not in the Shorted Out Wire
With Trump winning, maybe he can get control of the out of control EPA and we can get a version of the Sportster back in the 10K range for new HD riders.
Interest rates, cost of living prices are out of control are the problem buying a motorcycle. By the way the EVO engine didn’t meet European emissions either so that is worldwide problem for Harley Davidson, it’s just not the EPA.
89 million to Livewire from the Inflation Reduction Act certainly is a huge help
WHY DON'T THEY MAKE THE BIKES CHEAPER? THAT WAY EVERYONE'S A WINNER !!!!
Im out on harley till management is changed. So far have put over 1k on my pursuit in less than a month and very happy. Stays like this and i might not be back.
You have some great stickers behind you. I bought my bike from Fredrick Maryland from a dealership that soon closed afterwords maybe that’s why they gave me such a good deal. But I believe HD is knocking out the owner operator in favor of corporate ownership that’s just my $.02
Several motorcycle shops closed this year here or amalgamated. We have now two big dealers and maybe 2 small shops BMW are now run out of the car dealers the only ones doing well is Enfield who just expanded. As an owner of a 2017 Iron 883 I can confirm they have lost their way and the bikes are way too expensive for normal people.
It's called Bidenomics. 90% of HD buyers finance. I'm a re estate appraiser and these rates eliminated refi biz.
This situation started well before 2021. Bidenomics only compounded it.
Mike, this was some good information as always. I cannot see why anyone would think you are full of it. You put out information that no one else seem too and it's honest! I hate to see any dealership close down, over just plain bad management and corporate greed. I don't see why they can't figure out, that the guy in charge, must Hate America and wants Harley to fail. Paying someone 29 million per year when sale are down makes no sense. I think You I could run the company for a couple million a pieces. Don't see how we could do any worst and Harley in already saving money. Just saying.
Put an American in charge of Harley. I still say that Harley Does Not Have More Than $8000.00 in producing these touring models and that includes the hourly salaries and benefits!!! So go back to 2014 prices and sell more units. After Trump gets everything back on track, selling these bikes for $24,000.00 - 25,000.00 Out The Door should move lots of units. But Harley also has to a stop the price gouging at the dealerships too. Maybe Harley could reward the dealership with bonuses with X amount of sales.
Here is the dirty little secret that people haven't figured out yet. Harley wants their prices high enough so people have to finance the bikes, they make money off the sale then more money of the finance interest. HDFS was the only division that was in the black last quarter. Think about it.
No different than auto manufacturers that offer 'inhouse' financing.
@@gregshade5302 If they offer you gap insurance, buy it!
I don't/won't make purchases where buying gap insurance is a good idea.
And don't forget about the money HDFS makes on dealership floorplans.
Any thoughts as to the pricing on the '24 Road King Special and why it almost costs as much as the new Street Glide? Is the RKS more expensive to manufacture?
I honestly expect the significantly on the new touring models next year. I think this year was a fire sale to get them out on the road and let people experience them and be able to tell their friends about how great they are to increase sales in future years, and if that’s the case, it would make sense why they didn’t drop the price of the special and things will align better again next year.
Thank you for your input. Hope they can keep prices relatively the same for '25. Enjoy your new SG, safe travels to you!
The younger generation is just not buying bikes anymore.
HD ....Just lost a $290 million
Law suite in NY I believe
There was a flaw In the trike line .... .they knew it but didn't say anything or do anything....
2 people crashed cause of it and got paid $290 mill..
@@03roadking it was a break issue on a trike and one person died. I wasn’t on the jury so I can’t judge.
Either way $290 mill..
Whats worse in the case of the side car motor cycle that crashed is that it wasn't the first time!! The same problem happened on the same bike causing a crash. No one was killed the first time it happened. The dealership made the repairs and said the bike was "fixed"! The same problem happened again with one of the brakes suddenly locking up causing another crash. This time the guys girl friend riding in the side car was killed!! So ya, Harley desereves to be sued! 😞
You pretty much get what you pay for. Aside from costs is it exactly what you want. Is quality and resale value good, would you be happier on other motorcycle? If l couldn't afford my Roadking ld bought a used Sportster.I know what l like, it may not be for everyone but ld accept more weight lower powered motors to have what l love
The first Trump 4 years he put tariffs on products that directly impacted HD, John Deere. DJT made a big issue on HD so the EU responded to the tariffs he imposed by putting a31% tariff on HD bikes, HDs 2nd biggest markets. Hit Harley really hard - cost up+ tariffs on EU sales. Sales plummeted
My next bike will definitely be used. 1/2 the price and I don't have to deal with a Harley dealership or HDFS financing.
I think all of the dealers should close. Why do we need this middle man at this point. I was on Harley's site a while ago. Curious about what i could get selling my bike. Not 30 seconds later i got a call from my local dealer pressuring me to come in for an appointment. I called back and let him know i changed my mind on selling my bike. Continued to push for an appraisal so i just cut them off at that point. These mofos seriously left about 30 messages on my phone over the next few weeks. Changing numbers, sales reps etc. unreal. They can all go away as far as im concerned.
I appreciate the video and your insights!
my inside source, harley is worried about new riders they buy a bike and sell within 3 years and never buy another. I will never buy a newer harley, I hate the GPS,
abs, computer screen etc. The engines get bigger but go less miles per tank. I will stick with my older ones. I can repair them myself. even picked up a used sportster to add to my other bikes, it is a 1200 and fun to ride with the bigger tank
I’m getting over 40 mph on my 2024…
@@RidingintheOzarks I get 50
For me its value. I had been waiting for 5+ years for HD to release a Bagger product that had good performance and technology. They finally came out with the ST that checked a lot of boxes but priced it at $50K+ and it didnt even come with a passenger seat. Even with all of the Carbon parts the Bike is only worth about 30k at best. I ended up finally getting my bagger to supplement my HD VROD and it was a BMW K1600B. 28K brand new fully loaded with custom paint and outperforms HD in every way. It doesnt have the sound of a Harley but Im not paying 20k+ for sound/brand with far less features and performance. HD IMO will continue to struggle and will be bleeding customers until they start competing in price/performance. Fit and finish are great but really thats the only thing they have on other "American" brands. They still sell due to brand name at this point IMO. People see it as a status symbol and want to "fit in". As people stop caring about that they will move on to better and less expensive brands.
Harley has done permanent damage to their brand. This is not the Harley of just 5 years ago. I think this version of HD will either get acquired by a larger company or will go bankrupt.
Mike, I feel for ya. 12? 13 Dealerships in Missouri (that's where you are, correct?) and not one within an hour and a half? Rural in CT and MO are quite a different animal. People crap on CT a lot, so, please forgive me for sharing one of the many things I love about my home state, k? I am as rural as it gets in southern CT, horse and cattle ranches within 1000 yards of my front door. We only got our first street light 10 years ago and that after a horrible accident. Anyway we have six dealerships in CT; two are just over an hour, two about 45 minutes and the other two are just about 35 minutes away. In just CT, MA, and RI there are 10 dealerships within two hours. Four more are within three hours and New York would add four more within three hours. JS! ;)
I am in southern central MO. I have 4 about 1.5 to 2 hrs in STL. There is another about 1.5 hrs away but never had much luck trying to deal with them. After that it’s about 3 to 3.5 hrs to pick up another 3 or 4 in KC.
Check out the latest pricing for a new harley - 30 grand???? They need to get some models below 20K
@@brokenspokes6731 that is for touring models, there are some softails under 20k
@RidingintheOzarks after taxes and other fees, they turn into 20k bikes
Great work Mike! Thanks for sharing!
Averages are tricky and potentially very misleading measures. For example, an average of 45 (of whatever) could represent a bunching of whatever is being measured at both ends of the unit range with nothing in the middle (i.e. a bunch towards the low end, and another bunch towards the high end, and nothing in the middle). So an average age of 45 years could reflect a bunch of teens and early 20 somethings, and another bunch of 60 and 70 somethings, and no one in their thirties or forties or fifties. There is an assumption of a normal distribution but it is only an assumption and in reality can be and often is an entirely different distribution - one that is not at all reflected in the "average" figure given as representative of the distribution in question.
I just turned 60 and I ride a Suzuki m109r and refuse to spend more than $15k for a motorcycle. I see no attractive Harley Davidson below the Cruiser/Touring models and their pricing is $20-40k for such bikes is crazy. The latest and greatest is not very affordable anymore if I can buy dependable in great shape elsewhere..
@@louieavi ride what makes you happy, I am happy on my 2024 Street Glide. Nothing is cheap anymore..,
CALIFORNIA DOESN’T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE EITHER! Only in selective locations. Definitely not here in the high deserts of Southern California.
There's been a number of Harley Davidson dealers closing by me. Not one dealer announced a sale. Not one! Their inventory was absorbed by the mega dealers that took over.
Most of the closed stores only posted their situation a day or so prior to the actual shutdown. They don't care about their customers, so I in turn don't care about them. Or Harley Davidson in particular.
If that's how Harley Davidson is going to operate, I'll let my motorcycle license expire. I got my license thru work, because I needed it at the time. I don't now. My position has changed, and the bikes are gone. Say goodbye Harley Davidson. You did this to yourself.
I'll never want a Harley that doesn't come from the factory with a carburetor.
Got to say HD is starting to make me question their dedication to customers. I have a friend who bought a 2023 Tri glide with less than 3000 miles. Dealer said the owner said it was too big for him. Anyway in less than a few thousand miles his clutch went out. HD would not cover it saying it was a wear item. $800 later he made a couple of long trips and again the clutch is out. Again HD Said it would not cover it. Dealer said they needed to pull the motor to correct the problem but HD will not cover it. This guy has owned more than 20 Harleys and is a very experience rider. No way is it operator error. I can’t believe HD won’t cover a problem that is obviously an internal problem. So much for Harley Davidson!
Is he dealing directly with HDMC or only working thru the dealer?
It's not hard to gain market share in the touring category when you only have Indian and Goldwing to compete with. The metric manufacturers canceled all Touring bikes several years back, and now HD is starting to see and feel that. The last thing is that the new design isn't selling as well as you want to believe. Pretty simple just ask the dealers, the 23 are selling at huge discounts because most dealers are full with them.
Maybe on sales but I’m seeing a lot on the road and my dealer is moving them. You forgot BMW and Triumphs Rocket.. there are other options…
@@RidingintheOzarks Ofcourse we are going to see some lol I see an Indian every now and then
@ I saw a lot more new models than I expected at Bikefest and BBB. Considering that sales are down I was truely surprised by the amount of them. I do see and Indian now and then
@@RidingintheOzarks ruclips.net/video/Sw1encD_-Uw/видео.htmlsi=sYP9kbNi8NFscAcn
@@RidingintheOzarks Now will be the time because HD is raising prices 2k plus on the touring bikes for 2025.
Get rid of that CEO and bring back bikes for regular working people. Nevermind I'm done with the brand.
Nobody I know want electric bike or car it just doesn't make sense the market is going in the direction of smaller and more affordable bikes .
HD failed to diversify during the boom years. They have nothing but tee-shirts to prop up the brand. 😢
Was in Puerto Rico not long ago...2024 Street Glide $37,000.00
@@dmcharley64 wow !
I'm a simple guy and have a question.
What difference does market share make when you're talking about financials? If you're losing money, you're losing money regardless of whether you have 10, or 90% of the market share. At least that's the way I see it.
Please, someone educate me.
Ok my take on it, first they aren’t losing money but sales are down. Sales are down are the headlines but they are leaving out that sales are down for the industry and HD is doing better than the competition based on market share gain. These headlines affect market analyst ratings for stock which can affect stock price. I try to present the good and bad. Does that explain the why I think it’s important?
Binghamton NY closed ... 30 plus years
I knew on was in NY
Good update. 🤘⚡️🤘✨✨
Maybe they can sell their Bikes in Brazil and Thailand where they now manufacture Harleys.......
Just had a new dealer open near me. So maybe it’s bad dealers closing.
Name of the dealer?
@ revolution road Harley Davidson.
@ it’s not really “new” though, it’s new ownership. RumbleOn acquired them.
@ actually it is new. As Monty’s closed. Completely out of business. This dealer then got authorization from Harley to open they are currently in the same spot HOWEVER they are building a completely new dealership. I won’t even use them as I’m happy where I go.
@ actually it is not, Monty’s is now Revolution Road net neutral number, The Motor Company has no net gain in dealers. So I guess you’re just saying the building is new.
Life goes on without HD. It’s a shame they deserted their base
Whoa man, I feel like you're yelling at us.
Thank you for the break down
Your numbers tell me sells fell when they started adding the big screen computer to run your bike I prefer to do. My own riding
The screen doesn’t run the bike, all the guages been controlled by a computer for years we are just using a digital screen over a digital gauge now. It’s different for sure but it doesn’t change how the bike operates except my ride modes and those are controlled by a switch not the screen. The screen does allow for a custom ride mode
6:30 - To this day, I cannot understand how folks stay in California whether business or personal. Financially speaking it seems like businesses and residents get screwed on taxes and incentives - unless you're below the poverty level.
8:20 - Well, as a state, California is the 5TH LARGEST economy in THE WORLD. The Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) is the second largest school system in the U.S. second only to NYC.
10:12-Hey Mike, isn't this a bit inaccurate? The slides read, "motorcycle shipments," but there's a difference between what HD shipped out and what consumers actually bought, right? I continuously hear dealerships tell me that when they get a delivery truck, it's not always the dealership's order. It's more like what corporate is sending them (a polite way of saying corporate is shoving bikes down dealerships' throats). I may be 100% wrong here so feel free to educate me or even expand on this if it's partially accurate.
Yeah it’s not for me…
They need to shell that live wire and just keep up with the tech of the electric bikes
If Harley loses its dealers its done.
An increasing share of a decreasing market is not a winning formula. Smaller less expensive bikes are what are selling.
I've been riding motorcycles for 40 years Harley-Davidson is trying to sell you less of a motorcycle for more money yes they have more power and they handle pretty decent now but the rest of the bike is garbage
Always appreciate your perspective and inside view of things, but fear decline of HD will accelerate. Woke CEO and governance members have no clue how to turn things around, much less a willingness to embrace the HD heritage. Four HDs in my garage, no intention of buying a new one unless company changes direction.
All the dealership will eventually close down until there is transparency in pricing and fair deals for everyone involved. The egotistical, arrogant, dishonesty and price gouging has to stop and they need to start treating their core customers like family again. What a shitty business model they got going now.
Elon should buy HD and make it great again! 😂
Electric Motorcycles just do not have the range or recharge as fast as filling a gas tank.
I'm from Europe. Wy I'm paying alot for a harley davidson, If it is not made in the US. If its not made in the US it is not a harley davidson. Drive harley,over 40 years
Market share does not mean sales or money in the bank. Overall, motorcycle sales in the USA continue to fall and HD sales continue to go down. Many competators years ago have become more diversified and offer other fun toys such as atv's and utv's. HD just offers the same old crap year after year. I've been riding since 1968 and I could care less if HD is to ignorant and arrogant to realize their major down falls.