How Working in Automotive Changed Our Views
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
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#cars #engineering #business
Index:
00:00 Intro
00:54 Brand Integrations and Sponsorships
6:14 First Discussion: How Have Things Changed 
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In future videos what topics do you want to learn about from engineers and experts?
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While their “design and philosophy” behind the car(s) would be great. I would also like to hear about their thoughts regarding general unaffordable nature of new “economy” cars for average Americans or modern car trends that they do not like or would prefer to not work with (if it would be possible to get this question answered that is).
I'm honestly interested to know how many of the sacrifes modern vehicles make are due to legislation, and how many are just due to "consumer demand" or at least what manufacturers think consumers want.
Cars have ballooned in size, and are generally pretty forgettable looking and it's often blamed on legislation - but as a counterexample to that assumption you've got brand new vehicles like the mx-5 and Lotus Emira that don't have high hood lines, low displacement turbo motors, and big footprints.
How can RUclipsrs, like you, make the industry better? I’m curious what the people who work for manufacturers would say.
Anything with professional motorsport especially at the IMSA level
Will fun cars for the common man ever be truly affordable again?
Jack is a real friend calling Mark's numerous ex-wives and a legion of bastard kids a "full family unit".
He's talking about his unit downstairs ;)
"Dude's a gorilla and just takes up more space to exert dominance half the time" lol
6:41 I know Jack was just trying to be humble, but your personalities are a big reason why people tune in.
Don´t sell yourself short.
Agreed!
Yeah, I like the weird humor they do sometimes!
Agreed. People do like personalities. Same reason Throttle House is popular.
Some of their sarcastic "my wife's boyfriend" and other shenanigan clips make me laugh more than essentially anything else so I'm with you on that.
For real! SG and Throttle House are the top two for me Love all these guys.
“What I loved about cars is on the decline.” - Mark
Amen, Brother.
I legit thought Hoobastank’s “The Reason” was about to start playing at the beginning lol.
Is u
ah, a fellow 35 year old
I was thinking Pixies' Where is My Mind
I was hoping for higher by creed
@@itsamilkshake generational differences
Mark, you were a driving force in helping me decide on the purchase of my LC500, your videos on the LC as well as the enthusiasm you displayed for owning one yourself was awesome. As a long time subscriber, I can tell that over the last 5 years your attitude has shifted. I fully agree with your statements about the overall market, prices keep the younger enthusiasts from being able to obtain their dream cars. Just know that the videos that both you and Jack put out are some of the best and are greatly appreciated by the community.
+1, I also bought an LC500 and Mark's videos were a big part of helping to make that decision
100% agree - and I'm ALSO in the market for an LC - LOL
@@CeeJay591I had a '21 and a '24, the interior is better before the touchscreen refresh in '24 but the tech upgrades in '24 -- full surround camera + lane tracing (which actually works) -- are substantial.
And that new Ultrasonic Blue Mica 2.0 color is unreal.
@@jimmy-buffett Thanks for the comments and that's the rub - I held back from purchasing the '23 due to the ancient tech, but now am not really pleased with the '24 interior changes. I was hoping to get updated tech with minimal interior changes, as I was able to do with the '23 GX.
@@CeeJay591 if you're in no rush, there's a very good chance that the transmission cooler on the special edition Japan cars either becomes an option or standard on US LCs. It's a small technical difference that I think will make a huge value difference long-term if it ever happens.
Every car channel has cars. Only this channel has you two. Keep up the great works guys.
Mark’s take resonates with me on a molecular level. As a 40 something who grew up with a passion for cars and tech I have become incredibly cynical about the current and future state of the things I love.
At this point it feels like everything in the world is solely for the enrichment of shareholders. I say this as someone with a good bit of investments too.
At this point it’s hard to even buy a quality item, even if you are willing and able to spend a lot of money.
I hate the idea of throwaway cars and would argue that most people don’t want cheap, throwaway crap but it is all they can afford because of massive wage stagnation.
As a kid, I could conceive one day of affording a decent car. I'm not saying a Ferrari but something mid range and fun to drive. Today, I know that the majority of these cars I will never have the chance to own because their prices are far higher than they used to be. I'm going to be driving a base Honda Civic not because I want to but because I need something that will last 10+ years so I can actually afford it. It's pretty disappointing.
Not only that is very true, but also at least in Europe after traffic planning being in ever tighter grip of socialist civil servants and them getting ever crazier and bolder with their ambitions and permission to execute them, we're being strangled and driving has become merely sitting on a sofa and waiting for the journey to finally end. They seem to actively look for the few remaining driving roads to snuff them out. People need to drive ever more hours from their homes just to find a fun bit of road, and even then risk huge punishments. If there's any point to go for that anymore, as the cars don't reward you in any way for fun driving.
I agree with Mark's take but I also think that there are far more important things in life than a car. There's no inherent reason why a car shouldn't be anything more than an appliance to get you safely, comfortably and reliably from point a to point b. As loathe as we are to admit it, everything else has fed into the worst excesses of car culture and consumerism. Performance and luxury are at the core of why cars have become increasingly disposable.
Don't get me wrong, I still love sports cars and want something engaging to drive. However, the older I get the more annoyed I find myself by car culture, its cargo cult mentality and gatekeeping. You're not special because you drive a Land Rover or more of an enthusiast because you own a Miata. You just have more disposable income or a willingness to take on more debt.
@@maweitao What a load of nonsense. Every aspect of our lives needs to be worth living for, happy, and not turned into a method of corruption and/or a tool of despotic ideological religion.
Everyone has the *_freedom_* to choose a boring appliance of a car and an appliance-living-experience as a mindless drone to serve the elites, but they don't have the right to impose that on others.
There is no "excess in car culture". Cars are cars, they're made by people, bought by people, used by people. There is only excess in corrupt and totalitarian ideological over-regulation and despotic control.
Your bit about performance and comfort "making cars disposable" is baseless nonsense. What does that even mean?
Your nonsense about "Car culture" is your own invention which you made up, there is no such thing and owning a Miata is not predicated on lots of disposable income or more debt. The over-control of corrupt and cultist ideologues is what requires us having more disposable income and incurring more debt.
I don't think there's any reason cars have to exist on a spectrum whose ends are "cheap, throwaway crap" and "ultramodern mega-luxury depreciating crap" . Compare this with every other product we buy. Does my weedwacker have a 10" touchscreen display? Does my toilet have a heated and cooled leather massage seat available in 9 different shades of silver and one dark metallic red? Do I have heated doorknobs in my house? Is my couch equipped with magnetorheological dampers and a four stage air filter?
It just completely blows my mind that somehow we've been convinced to sit in plastic lawn chairs at home and absolutely insist on heated-and-cooled 12 way adjustable massage seats in our transportation.
Why on Earth would it not be OK to build or buy a car that's safe and efficient, built with durable materials, but if I want to adjust the seat I have to suffer the indignity of moving a lever and if I want to look at the sky I can do that from outside the car because I don't need the roof to be made of glass.
What role does media and reviewers play in these narratives?
As a Quality Engineer working in and for a Japanese OEM, I am looking very much forward to this series
Brilliant observation. New cars are just like refrigerators. They dont last, too expensive, and have features that aren't needed.
The thing with refrigerators is that if you buy a cheap simple one, it will last longer.
But with recent advancements in energy efficiency, I suggest that you buy a new one every 7-10 years even if the old one still works. You will pay more for powering the old one.
Just be glad that LG doesn't make cars.
I disagree. A lot of cheap simple ones don't cool efficiently and have weak compressors. With some modifications, they can be improved but not many people are interested or capable of modifying their appliances lol.
@@vadim6385 Not sure I agree with the 7-10 year thing anymore. I bought that line on my 10 year old side by side and did my own research, realizing this was simply not true. Perhaps in the past it was, but no longer.
Still waiting for the Arby's bathroom review
Yea I really need to know about the smells and the urinals so please make sure you cover those.
They'll also need to do an audio test. My guess is a lot of echo and heavy on the bass.
"Their is a value to putting effort into things" that's my favorite quote from this video and you see the results of that effort all around us and unfortunately, the lack of effort in some cases. I'm looking forward to the new series. The effort you both put into this endeavor clearly shows in the quality of the content. My thanks to you both. 🎉
There*
Shopping for cars has always been more fun than owning them. By shopping, I refer to all the research, cogitation, discussion, and daydreaming that precedes visiting the showroom where the fun starts to dissipate.
It's refreshing to me to hear someone involved in reviewing cars coming right out and saying what I've felt, for years: that cars/vehicles are not really getting better. They are being stuffed full of technology that is, or shouldn't be, necessary for their purpose - as transportation and/or for the enjoyment of driving. When I was younger (much younger), I was influenced by product marketing pushing the idea that things are always being "improved!" when it was only about companies desiring greater profits, first and foremost (and conforming to regulations). Now, we've also got what I consider extreme car safety regulations adding weight, complexity, and cost. I've reached a point where there is no new car that I'm actually interested in buying and owning, considering the cost.
This is completely false. With the except of driver engagement, Jack is right, every car is DRASTICALLY better than they were even 10 years ago. Go sit in a 10 year old Honda, Mazda, or Hyundai and it feels like a hunk of junk from and interior quality perspective, lack of technology, safety features, etc. Cars ride better, are nicer to spend time in, and faster than ever before. The negative is that manufacturers have done this in performance vehicles too where an isolated comfortable experience isn't why people buy those cars. A Civic Type R is faster round a track than a Lamborghini was 20 yrs ago. We're in the 2nd Golden Age of performance vehicles and it is dying in service to the EV despite EV's being incredibly unsustainable long term.
The downside of course is cost. So much stuff comes 'standard' now, that the base versions of cars are insanely expensive to purchase and expensive to fix, and like Mark says, all that tech has an expiration date. A mechanic won't be able to re-build your faulty emergency braking sensors in 15 years that make your car randomly slam on the brakes.
Dont ever change the name, SavageGeese is an epic handle
When I was a 3 or 4 year old... back in the old country... on my way to see my uncle... I had to cross a field... a field with geese... It was their field.... so to do so... I had to fight my way through a gaggle or two of geese each time... the geese were my height... we saw eye to eye... damn things would try to take a bite out of me every time... things had teeth too... beat me with their wings.. jabbed at my head... hard... and they were good shots....
I learned to dodge... duck... and throw a punch... with accuracy... so much so... that by the end of that summer... when they saw me coming... the friggin geese.. were the ones who avoided me... as they hurredly waddled out of my way...
But yea... I know savage geese... fist... er... first hand... and to never be afraid of them...
Moral of the story... learned not to... duck... when the... geese... were around... lol
That defense lesson came in handy when I came to this country... met a new kid... got into a fight... he won... not by much... lol... to this day.... brothers from two mothers... still sparring... but enjoying.. and appreciative... of what each has to offer...
Love the channel... love the name... love the human aspect that you guys bring... you guys are like me and my bro... different views... but understanding of each other's view too...
Interview - Mechanic, Bodyman, Painter, Adjuster, Appraiser.. you could do an entire show on how terrible it is to deal with an insurance company when you have a collision claim on your 80k vehicle.
That thumbnail is the expression you have when coming home in your virtually simulated world and finding microwaved tuna casserole for the second day in a row on the table
I'd like to see more reviews of older cars. There's so many interesting cars from the 90s and 00s that have never had proper video reviews with good production quality
This is such a good point!
Seconded. Especially with the level of detail these two get in on, I'd love to see more peculiar older car reviews (especially those that didn't come out in my country lol)
the vast majority of those cars are not in their original condition, either due to wear or modifications. so what are you really reviewing?
@@xhxixaxcxrxex they've done reviews of older cars before. I don't think that's a blocker
Mark became more dismissive and sarcastic, except for Honda and Lexus
Jack became HUGE
The Geese are getting ever more Savage.
Seriously. Mark’s doing what I’m tired of seeing people do. Provide no solid examples, and just going off about some “vibes based” feelings without concrete examples.
He’s saying $50,000 dollar cars are now more disposable, but Mark mentions the bread and butter cars like the Civic, Camry, RAV4 are all better than they’re been and if anything based on inflation they’re okay price wise and where you’d expect. Why doesn’t Mark provide some actual examples and what its actual impact is on a customer’s experience? Because it’s not much.
@@chhoylahave you seen how much it'll cost to repair one of these screened out modern cars? It's just owning the car it's also maintaining and owning it.
@@chhoyla Mark is right, he just lost his passion given how many cars he's been through and how stupid the industry is, where everything becomes a soulless disposable pile.
There are only few new cars you can enjoy, but most of the them are in tripple digits.
I feel exactly the same, but I'm not looking for new cars - there are plenty of old ones to get and enjoy.
@@hamsterbrigade Then don’t repair it. Now you’re left with the equivalent of the 80’s and 90’s car everyone keeps romanticizing. Nobody is forcing you to have a screen on, grab some tools and remove it yourself now you don’t have to repair it!
Mark, you have the full support from many engineers and technicians, especially at my shop, who strive to educate others with REAL facts.
The world needs to stop taking everything at face value by absurd marketing and read the fine print.
Not sure if I fully agree with the last point. If consumers only wanted the cheapest possible car they would be buying mitsubishi mirages, kia rios, nissan versas, and other subcompact cars by the dozen. Not to say that the subcompact market is throw away, In my research it seems like the cars are built decently and last a while. However, that segment is dying. Instead, people are buying almost luxury like CUVs from well-respected companies such as Honda and Toyota that are known for their longevity. I say luxury-like because the interiors and technology of these cars are leagues above what they were years ago. Main point is, from the looks of the current market I can't see the average "I would never buy a mitsubishi or kia" person buying a 10,000 dollar EV from an unknown Vietnamese company. Would love to see a discussion about this.
People want the cheapest pile of garbage with the most gimmicky features that the manufacturer can cram into it, and they're willing to pay $60-100,000 for it!
@@N20JoeI’m pretty sure most buy used. I think new ownership is the (wealthier) minority.
I have been reviewing cars for over 20 years and agree prices have gotten out of hand but that will only change if consumers stop buying overpriced vehicles.
Now let’s talk miracles, the Miata is still here, the gr86/brz twins are still here, the Si, GTI, Elantra n, all of these cars are not high volume sellers and yet the manufacturers make sure we as car enthusiasts have choices that are reasonably affordable in todays world. That I am very grateful for.
You guys do the best informative automotive journalism on RUclips and I love the in depth talks with engineers. Thank you so much for what you both do. Cheers 🍻
Nice seeing you here. We were talking about Miata suspension on another video haha.
I agree, I like how informative their videos are along with bringing the engineer's/designer's perspective.
"Overpriced" is subjective, but I very much agree with your gist. No mention of WRX in the "miracles" list? :)
I think a lot of it is most people don’t buy cheap, new cars when a nicer cheap, used car is available so manufacturers cut those options because they don’t move
After all, why would most people spend 30k for a brand new car that has basic features instead of 30k for a used car that’s nicer?
Regulations set the pricing floor for cars. The cheapest new car you can get today is around $15-20,000 and I doubt that would even be possible without all the back end work that went into making the cheap and expensive cars IE the cheap ones could never be that cheap if it weren't for the other cars in the lineup.
One vehicle has definitely departed: The traditional U.S. car / luxury car. Made here and designed here and has some link with the past.
People have been complaining about throwaway cars for as long as there have been cars. “Build to last” has been a siren song since the Edsel. Remember when Detroit discovered planned obsolescence? No? That’s ok, you were still riding a bike with a banana seat then. The computerization of cars makes them disposable in one dimension, but the cars when I grew up were being thrown away surprisingly quickly because undercoating wasn’t a thing and they all had rusted side panels when they were five years old. It’s not the cars changing, you guys just aren’t in your 20’s anymore. Welcome to middle age and yelling at clouds! 🤩
My elders talk of when 100k miles out of a vehicle means it was time to scrap it
@@JollyGiant19exactly. Now i exclusively buy cars with at least 100k. "They sure dont make them like they used too!" in some respects im glad of that. I think that the golden age of cars reliabiltywise was 2005-2015. Everything you need and nothing you don't
OK boomer
I can't ignore the beauty of the yellow S2000 standing behind it
Great video as usual
Thank you for voicing my frustration. I’m the everyday woman who needs to buy a car this year. I’ve owned three cars to date, and have kept the last two between 10-18 years. I drive my cars into the ground (while maintaining them). As I’m looking for this car, I have a few things I won’t compromise: my budget and the class of car (sedan). I want a car I can take to my neighborhood mechanic (I won’t be tied to a dealership). I’m taking my time to make this decision as it may be my last car purchase.
Great to see someone like yourself among the viewers of this channel. Hope you find a car that fits the needs you described above. Did you consider buying slightly used? Could be a better value. The newer the car, less likely the neighborhood mechanic will be able to work on it, depending on how up-to-date their diagnostics tools and knowledge are.
You're basically looking at a Corolla, Camry, Avalon, or ES300 if you insist on a sedan. High sales numbers = parts availability and a reasonable cost and serviceability outside of the dealer network for many years. Since you want a vehicle that last 18 years, you're better off avoiding the mechanical complexity of turbocharging or the guaranteed need to replace hybrid batteries within those 18 years.
Marks hair makes cameeo at 3:07
SG on their way to become the most competent car channel out there. I hope they gain more popularity than the attention-deficit Donut crowd. I love waking up with morning coffee before work and seeing them post something!
I think "boring" A to B cars are a marvel of engineering. The fact they can make such complex machines that just about anyone can hop in and drive around with minimal issue is amazing in itself.
Things that just "work" matter and the areas we should be most concern with these vehicles is safety, reliability, efficiency, capability, and affordability. These 5 categories really determine whether a car is worth it or not.
True.
The age thing resonated. Me at 30 with an e30 taking cloverleaf onramps at ludicrous speed, and blasting down mountain roads in Washington brought me so much joy. Then i moved to Texas, left the e30 behind (no AC), bought a Fiesta ST, was creeping up on 40, and loathed it. The roads here are straight and boring, i have a kid, and all of the sudden the tight steering ratio, the buzzy cabin, and the jarring potholes were infuriating. Now i have a Jetta (orange, with a manual). It is boring, and a perfect match for Texas highways. I'm still a "car guy", but the quiet cabin, 42mpg lifetime average, and stellar reliability are the traits i value over "fun".
I did see that APR has a tune for it now, though...
I live in Oklahoma and drive in Texas quite frequently. As an avid autocrosser, I loathe the straight roads of the south/Midwest. I follow the Everyday Driver philosophy of cars for purposes. They’re like shoes, you have a pair of boots for hiking, running shoes for running, and dress shoes for dinner. I have a cheap, buzzy, hilariously fun, rust bucket civic for autox, and a Camry for the mindless commute. The boring car makes driving the fun car even more of an exciting event.
Were you that guy I saw a couple years back who turned onto SB I-5 at NE 50th St. so hard that you had to countersteer to regain control? If it was you, congratulations on not slamming into the wall.
"There is a value to putting effort into things." Well said.
Both Mark and Jack have good points and make great arguments.
I have to side with Mark though. For the past 5+ years we've not seen much progress in the pure engineering of vehicles outside of a few high end models. From the 80s through the 2010s we saw the refinement of suspension and chassis tuning, braking and steering systems improved. Aluminum and structural steel chassis fabrication were developed, along with carbon fiber and composite materials. All in the pursuit of a better driving experience.
But now, power steering and braking have transitioned to electric in order to chase self driving. Modern inovation is focused on making the car less engaging to drive as we seek self-driving vehicles. Its touted as safety (which ultimately it is), but thats mostly because people do not pay attention when driving anymore. People are no longer engaged in the experience. For the average person, driving seems to have transitioned to a "chore".
This less engaging experience makes it hard for new drivers to develop a joy of driving, and therefore creates fewer enthusiasts, which means less demand for the art of driving.
It will be interesting how history views cars from the 2020s. Surely this is a transitional period, but to what exent has yet to be determined.
Your comments about class (cost) and quality and durability were refreshing. We want cars to be affordable and well made.
Mark has become jaded. Jack has become jacked.
Mark was born jaded
I'm jaded asf sitting on the sidelines, I could only imagine how hard it is for you guys to be motivated with these new cars coming out.
Your enthusiasm for the ND made me buy one! Keep it up Mark/Jack
They know we want physical control knobs, switches, and buttons l, but they still make touch screen control systems. Fake vents, fake engine noises. We don't want them, but they still do it.
Most people want them for the first 20 minutes when they are looking at cars at the dealership. It looks cool and fancy and high tech and like it will impress their friends. It's what most people value. They wouldn't do it if it didn't sell
@@CyFi6 that's what they think, but in reality, people actually don't want them.
@@fromisheon4867We are the minority, friend. The average American does value those things and is actually willing to pay extra for it.
@N20Joe Who likes to open a glove box thru a touch screen? Do you think majority of people like that?
@@fromisheon4867The touchscreen give mfgrs an excuse to abandon all buttons, so as long as buyers keep buying bigger and fancier distraction devices, they are telling mfgrs that is exactly what they want.
I've had my Flexispot desk for over 3 years now. It has been great. Super smooth, sturdy, looks good, you can fine tune height adjustment, fantastic since I work from home.
I bought the appliance bits so I could do a custom top and it’s been great here too
I don't think it's possible to truly make sense of what is going on in the automotive industry without taking a long look at what's happening in modern society as a whole.
This. The auto industry today reflects today’s society, lowering their expectations for everything to stay on their phones. The auto industry will never be great ever again.
@@faheemabbas3965 True, but there are a few gems still around, like the BMW G42 M240i that I picked up a couple of months ago, fantastic car!
@@faheemabbas3965 I agreed with everything you said except for the last line. The world ever cycles, and the next great cars may come from India or China, and we'll grudgingly accept that because....we have no choice. However, we know that that may take 1-2 generations to occur. I had thought Korea was going to beat them to it, but the fiasco with Kia/Hyundai engine failures, and the long waits to have them replaced, has caused me to lose respect for Korean manufacture.
Still, I'm driving a 2010 Hyundai Genesis sedan V6 purchased new and now with 182,000 miles on the vehicle. (NO DIRECT FUEL INJECTION, only port). I am keeping it because it's really analog, Because of the service care I have given it, and because of my mechanic's recommendation, I expect to keep it another 70,000 miles. And you know what? With an ARK aftermarket suspension, it's fun to drive.
If you ask me, it's not as fun to drive as the 1998 Lexus GS400 i had, but it has a voluminous back seat, is rear wheel drive, and has had no more problems than my Lexus had. I sold the Lexus with 187,000 miles, because the interior was torn to shreds by traveling softball associated dirt. I wish I had kept the car after a complete re-do of the interior and exterior, but my wife trumped me with the old argument about throwing good money after bad. It needed $2000 for new air-conditioner, too. That was the during the golden age of durable vehicles. Just 1 generation ago.
I swear yall were 900k subs recently? Wtf. This channel is criminally under appreciated. The effort, detail and information that goes into this channel is unparalleled.
“What I care about in cars is declining.” Couldn’t have said it better myself. Simple, light, fun-to-drive cars are like finding hen’s teeth. Thanks for the honesty! Also, trying to get some of these complicated electronics fixed in the future will be nearly impossible.
I’m praying you see this comment. You have an absolute stellar skill of reviewing things. I truly often wish that you would start doing this on the side. Random fun stuff that you could roast or be surprised you like, things you actually care about of course. I literally found this channel by your bidet review. I was amazed by it and I clicked on the channel wanting more. What do you know, they are car reviewers. How the heck did I find my new favorite car channel from a bidet? Because of you Mark!!! Start another channel, or don’t, but give the people what they want!!!
It's such a great feeling to see my passion for cars mirrored back to me through discussions like these. Your authenticity is immensely valuable and I hope you continue making videos for many years to come. Cheers.
Very authentic, very engaging, very candid. This episode was really great.
There was a time when high school kids took “automotive” as a course. It taught the basics about car maintenance and kids got their hands dirty. I’m sure the choice to take the course spawned a lot of the passion which launched careers in the auto industry. There was also a time where the same High-school kids would wrench away in driveways, dirty garages or on the side of the road to fix stuff when the $500 pickup truck or rusty Mustang or Chevy Nova they bought didn’t run anymore. No phones or Starlink to call for help, no safety net just the rudimentary knowledge and a set of tools to get you by. Driving was the reward. Spring, summer, fall, winter… get in the car or truck and drive turn the key and go to school, your first job, a date, or to race your buddy on some backroad on the way to a bush party. No distractions, just driving.
Fast forward. Buttons are “old school”, a 55” computer screen with car play and every conceivable option is mandatory along with built in Back seat nanny “safety, lane keep technology”. What happened to driving? No distractions, no setting up a million different personal settings and gadgets…. Just pure and simple driving. There are ten times as many drivers out there today, screaming along with a 3 ton vehicle inches from your bumper aggressively forcing you to move the F over…who lack the driving skills. It’s a roll the dice whether the person next to you is too busy texting at 80 mph to realize that they are swerving all over.
I like luxury, and reliability, but am very cynical about all the added stuff on cars and trucks today. Can’t even fix the flat by the side of the road because there is no spare.
Love your vids by the way. Keep the passion.
Been watching since you were still doing vids with Scott Turbowski. Best damn car channel on YT...saying that as an enthusiast AND as a former certified tech for a large international OEM.
Mark is 100% right when talking about econobox cars being to complicated. Had a 2018 civic ex turbo 6 speed that would dilute gas into the oil like crazy and have nothing but issues with the head unit. After that got totaled, I got a 2018 Mazda 3 Hatch with a 6 speed. Haven’t noticed any issues with the 2.5 N.A. motor yet. Now I don’t have to worry about a turbo failing.
Interesting. I knew someone with a 2016 Civic ex-t, went 120,000 miles with essentially no maintenance and the thing barely used oil and had no problems. I was betting that the car would have some problems because of the direct injection at that mileage with carbon buildup but nothing ever happened. Sold to the next owner and heard nothing bad from as of yet. Must be one of those cars where either everything goes right or everything goes wrong.
@@TheBigNate505 Direct injection + Turbo = Not the best combo for long-term reliability.
My 2018 Honda Fit has been terrible. Sapped a lot of the joy of owning a car for me. I don't have the money to keep repairing it. Honda reliability is a joke.
@meemka8251 But a pretty good recipe for "get 'em back in the dealership as soon as possible to hopefully convince them to spend more money".
@@jldude84 Absolutely! But I wouldn't go to a dealership for any car repairs other than warranty-related stuff.
I really agree with Mark about the industry. People want more features for less money. They don't think about the reprocussions of buying such a car. More features is more things to break, and less money means the compromise is going to be in longevity.
I drive a nearly 30 year old BMW 318ti. I get in someone's 50k Volvo SUV and notice that the materials quality isn't as good, the road noise is greater, but it's packed with all kinds of meaningless amenities which don't contribute to a greater experience, but help sell the car to an undiscerning buyer.
I'd rather stick to my old, well built BMW that I can still get parts for after 30 years. It's perfectly pleasant to drive on the highway, and in traffic, and superbly easy to work on.
The icing on the cake is the automotive industry will NEVER make their products more affordable. People want to pay less, and manufacturers will continue to bend said people over a jam it up their rear.
I hope the next bidet video you do is sponsored by Raid shadow legends.
Mark's observation about the diminishment of the intangibles (why cars are attractive to people like us). The "fun-to-drive" factor has been sacrificed on the altar of "more features" (for more money). But maybe this says as much about what consumers are willing to buy / asking for as it does about the industry itself.
In particular, Mark's observation about poor quality was spot on; Jack's counterpoint about the difficulties that designers and manufacturers must deal with was also helpful. Thank you.
The information that comes out of your content is incredible. I've always appreciated the direct and brutal approach towards brands equally and without biases. Thank you 👍🏼
Totally support brand integrations, especially after seeing the docufilms, they must take an insane amount of time, effort, and money. Your videos are an example of how real you guys are.
Love that you put the S2000 in the background of your sit-down shot. Your channel is the cream of the crop. Best of luck in the future.
I like to think of myself as a typically optimistic person, but being now just over 30, I feel myself agreeing & feeling much more cynical as Mark does towards the future and even current state of the automotive sphere. I feel as if the cars and characteristics of cars I enjoy driving & owning are not-so-slowly dying off. I sometimes wish I had an unlimited car budget & storage space to just buy up a bunch of fun and interesting cars from the past 20 years that I really enjoy so I can keep them forever and maintain them meticulously so that I never have to worry about owning any of the current/future screens on wheels vehicles. Unfortunately, I do believe the electronic race to the bottom mentality will prevail for the bulk of mass consumer automobiles.
In a more positive note, I cannot wait to nerd-out and see what experts and industry professionals you have on this series in the coming weeks!
I think educating people is always key, industries change, we change, customer expectations change, regulations change and companies are always about maximizing profits! Great video! 👏👏
As a younger car enthusiast, Ive gotten to the point where I understand the importance of practicality while still having performance and everything I need, without caring about the next person’s opinion too harshly. I also understand that fine balance between crazy performance and daily drivability treads a thin line now. You can have both but im not lusting over just 90s JDM cars anymore, i understand where I can get the car I want today, and not feel like im buying something overly complicated and stupid. Im excited for future combustion engine cars or hybrids that are still relatively simple, but if I want something thats gonna make crazy power and be fun, ill build that for what it is and still keep my
options open. Love this channel so much 🖤
THANK YOU guys for doing this.. your channel has some of the best automotive content produced for us enthusiasts.. kudos to you and keep up the amazing work, the editing and quality of your videos have set the bar so high that even “more established” channels don’t even come close. Well done 👍
I appreciate both your opinions very much. I share your skepticism about modern cars in general instead of just applauding the industry. Your remarks about a GT3 hit the nail. Besides my supercharged 2017 Miata my interest has shifted towards classic cars. I love driving my 80 Jeep CJ5 into my garage and how it then smells like fuel all day….modern cars don‘t smell anymore. Keep your good work up, I‘ll keep watching! Two thumbs up from Germany!
Solid, thought-provoking video - thanks so much for making this. Agree with Mark in so many ways, but also value Jack's thoughts as well. Really looking forward to this new series.
Thank you for the video, the concept and the format. A pleasure to listen and watch!
Working in auto sales, taught me two things. One: the average car buyer is not a rational, informed consumer and never will be. Two: leasing is a good idea if you understand how it works.
As a private buyer a lease is much more expensive. Tell us how that works please?
So enlighten us? Because in my mind, leasing is a great way to get stuck on the automotive hedonic treadmill in perpetuity, never satisfied.
@daniel-ino with how rates have been recently and the worsening quality of certain makes and models, a proper lease is a good option. It's a short-term finance that can also net you a lower payment. The warranty will cover your loan term, too. If you make it "worry free," the dealer will also cover regular service and consumables
The actual "catch" is that you have to stay under the mileage limit. If you know how much you drive and know that it won't change, you're good. If not, you'll need a lease that lets you buy extra miles in advance at a rate cheaper than the mileage penalty rate. That's it, that's the big bad catch of leasing. The reason it's got a bad reputation is most dealers won't be upfront and explain this to the customer
@chrisandrews610 I'm dealing with a lease buyout situation that's making me question the model. Dealer wants to charge a $2500 extended warranty on vehicle to process the buyout. Refuses to remove it. Not specified anywhere in the lease agreement that this is a thing. Corporate doesn't want to process a buyout directly with me- they say go thru the dealer, who obviously wants the car back. This is Mazda BTW
I basically never add comments to videos, but absolutely everything you both said in this video was spot on accurate from each of your respective lenses. Well done.
the 60 seconds or so after 21:09 perfectly explains why the US misses out on so many cool brands, models, options, and designs. The demand just isn't there.
Back in 2020, I bought a 2019 camaro SS used with just under 6,000 miles on it, in perfect condition, for $42,000 and change. Since they’ve announced the end of the camaro, and 2024 camaro ss prices are creeping towards $60,000... the value of my car has gone up it seems. I’ll never sell it tho. I love my car. I get compliments every time I drive it. Currently It has just over 10,000 miles. The combination of look, sound, and performance makes driving very enjoyable. Good points in the video btw.
Only 4,000 miles in three years? That's not doing much driving.
I am very much looking forward to this series! You guys are great and you had one of the videos that convinced me to get a BRZ and even take it to the track.
Been following you for years since you went in depth on the GT86 forums with the shortcomings of adding more power to the platform. Wild to see how much things have changed. Always catch your videos, looking forward to the future!
if you bought a ND Mazda Miata, that is probably one of the few appreciating assets
Thank you for doing this series, a real service to the community
I gotta say you guys impacted my car knowledge as much as playing gran turismo did for me as a kid, thanks so much guys
17:44 is exactly it. You two juxtapose each other and compliment each other as well. It’s really awesome to see, compared to before jack, it wasn’t as balanced with Turbowski (with all due respect).
I’ve also seen Mark tone down the cynicism a lot. It’s what happens because as much as you want to be impartial, you can’t burn bridges with companies, especially if you want access to their team and engineers. I know Mark, will still be cynical, but it’ll be more palatable and in a constructive way, and it’s nice to see the change. (CYNICAL MARK IS HILARIOUS 😭)
The most fun and highest quality review channel on RUclips.
Looking forward to this! It's great to hear the people behind the products...that's a great plus on this channel. 😎
Glad that you’re working on the business side of this project!
Jack scratching hi left 💪 next to microphone like the silver back of all commanding Mike to answer his question with some personal risk and view. 😅 I love this series guys! The camera work on the automated desk was amazing work quality too! 🎉
Flexing on Mark
Love the path you are on, keep it coming
I love how real a d honest this channel is.
I don't think cars are now that much a throwaway thing.
I think the problem is the mechanical side. For a single ball joint you need a 1200$ control arm, you can't get an acessory belt pulley without buying a 600$ tensioners. Doing a brake job is now super exepensive. Basic stuff that kept cars on the road, is now extremely expensive and i really don't think it's because of the screens and tech.
Yes, you might have 20 warning lights because the driving aids are broken or whatever but they won't keep the car from working (at least for now)
This might be a bit wrong for luxury cars but for most standard brands, it is.
I made a comment about the mazda CX90 that in 10 years, there will be no more CX-90 on the road because all that aluminium under carriage will costs a fortune just to replace normal wearing items.
Congrats on the new desk 🤙
Seriously though, you guys make a unique product that enhances people’s enjoyment and understanding of the automotive world. Keep doing what you’re doing. I’m all about product placement if it enhances the end result.
This was very informative and enjoyable to watch. I love seeing you guys personalities, similarities and differences come through and I really appreciate the car opinions of Jack B58 and Mr. Mark Gooseman.
I hope you guys stick around for a long time!
This is an awesome series idea. I'm excited to see where this goes and the experiences and stories that you share with your audience
Thank you for putting the work!
I’ll be watching.
Agreed! This type of series sounds amazing. Can't wait to see Dave Coleman more often 😁
This is why as a 53-year-old Marine Engineer grad ( albeit semi-retired now ) You guys are my go-to #1 Channel for anything automotive. Please keep doing what you are doing whilst clearly having fun.
Dang I though you sold your s2k. I was delighted when I saw it in the video; dont think I will sell mine anytime soon love it too much.
Yesss. More content of Mark and Jack just talking about cars and the industry is very appreciated!
I am not sure if I buy Mark’s argument about cars being more expensive. My family always buys base models of Corolla, RAV4, etc. those are super nice, can be had for MSRP, and their prices have gone up less than inflation. You can get a Corolla base sedan for $23 to $24k OTD.
As someone from India, what I generally notice is people tend to keep their cars at least for 5 years, In my family, we generally keep our cars for 8 to 10 years. Even though the average price of a new car is cheaper than in developed countries, Cars are luxury here and people really care about reliability and resale value here(The top-selling manufacturer right now is Suzuki). I hope cars don't become disposable.
What a great idea! Really looking forward to this upcoming series 😀 👍
Hi guys, I don't know if you will see my coment but I really apreciate it the amout of work you do and passion you put in. In my last two years you channel help me grow more in the automotive industry and that was a blessing for me since I'm in my final year studying automotive engineering at University Politehnica of Bucharest. Hope to see you soon.
Never sold anything? What do you mean!! I love my Savage Geese T shirt!
Mark's assessment of the current trajectory is unequivocally 100% spot on. Undeniable and not debatable whatsoever.
I'm not rich at all, so I drive heavily depreciated nicer cars that I can work on & diagnose myself. Me & everyone like me literally will not be able to own a car in 10 yrs. Not anything worth owning at least. The used market is gone in 10 yrs. People need to start talking about the how & why behind that because it is more of a threat than the rest of the abysmal state of things.
Will be like Cuba. People keeping their prior to 2015 cars running for decades
@@OffTheBeatenPath_ won't be allowed to. They'll be banned, & there's tons of ways they have to choose to go about it.
The 1st way (which is already in the works) is taxing them out of ownership basically. They will be so outlandishly expensive to register & insure (if able to be insured at all). There will be fees on top of fees & from a repair network standpoint, they won't be supported. It will be impossible.
@@RothBeyondTheGraveIf it's going to get that bad then we just need to be outlaws as long as possible there is no other way I see this going.
This is exactly what I need, thank you 🙏
Thanks for your insights guys!
Agree. We just bought a Civic, and my wife knows I usually keep a short list of "next cars" just in case - but she asked me what would be next and I had to say, I really don't know. Nothing stands out. All these things that auto execs and Doug D say "excite" consumers like big touch screens and pay-for-feature "experiences" ... they really don't excite people. They burden them. I still want cars that are fun to drive, safe, reliable and don't break the bank, and here they are trying to shill me on buying a $50K highlander. Uh, no!
Absolutely incredible film. Thank you sirs 👏
These companies make the cars cheaper and more disposable while keeping all the profits at the top. You'll never see a cheap car.
And in the rare event you do (ala Ford Maverick advertised for $20,000), the manufacturer will go hundreds of miles out of their way to limit production and/or availability of that affordable model and/or trim until they can bump the price up to a point that makes them as much money as possible.
Man, I feel this in my soul. 50 yrs old and I feel like my ‘24 GTI 380 SE is the last almost reasonable new car I’m interested and passionate about owning for a Daily Driver. The combo of expense, DD needs (or wants), and the complexity is so different and out of alignment for driving pleasure.
As a design student I really appreciate this kind of content!
Your guys’ realistic viewpoint on cars and the industry should continue to gain traction, as this is where most of us reside.
The high prices and disposability of new cars make a compelling argument for leasing instead of buying.
Car ownership is dying for sure.
Leasing is part of the problem
That doesn’t exactly solve the overall problem. Still spending tons of money on a vehicle
"You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."
At the moment there is very little difference between the lease and buy price (payments). More compelling to buy now and likely before.
I think the two of you make a great team. As a person looking at actually buying a car the two of you give great information and honest reviews, not just press copy. I really like that about both of you. I agree with the points you have made. As the currently generations mostly view cars as rolling platforms for aps, or appliances cars have become more "perfected", homogenized and less interesting. There are tradeoffs to everything and expectations have changed. For example, when I was growing an econo car meant getting a very cheap car that rode roughly, was noisy, slow, little to no real comfort features, poor quality materials, and very dangerous to drive. Now even econ boxes are fairly refined with plenty of available options, and decent performance. Adjusted for inflation not much more expensive than when I was young. There is not much room left for mainstream makers to differentiate their products from the competition, suppliers are all the same, how many cars have a standard or optional Bose radio for example.
I started watching your channel at 23k subs now I see you're at 700k+
Congrats