I think her plan was more so to circumvent the prophesy and fate rather than celestia. It was said that the prophesy can never be avoided and I’m guessing due to some iriminsul shenanigans, it would be easily found out that there is two sets of data of the same entity. The moment she deletes herself and dies would also solidify that human furina is truly the sole and only hydro archon “that just lost her power” who weeps thus deceiving fate that is manipulated by the iriminsul
Here are the things you missed: 1. Celestia may have been inactive but their rules (Heavenly Principles which is also the Primordial one but lets talk about the rules for now) remains active. The foundations of the prophecy is the very rules Celestia established. Therefore whether Celestia is active or not, the prophecy will be fulfilled because its what the rules of the world dictates (Fate). 2. From (1), Focalors knew of Celestia's inactivity and took it to her advantage. She cant fool Celestia but she can fool the rules. She went around the rules (as our sibling said "a flagrant regard of the rules") to fulfill the prophecy ostensibly at least while saved her people. 3. Archons can choose their successor but it is also not easy for them to give away their authority. Celestia wouldn't just give the authorities to the gods only for them to easily return it to the sovereigns. The archons are forever bound the their throne until their death. The archons we know so far who have died are Makoto, Rukkhadevata and Egeria, and in their death their throne was passed down because they simply died. But it is different for Focalors. Her final act was not simply her death, but take down the throne along with her death. Because only if the hydro archon's throne is destroyed would the authority be returned to neuvillete. Thats why she created the Oratrice to meet the energy requirements to destroy the hydro archon's throne, not just her death.
OOhhh Fascinating BUT COUTNER POINT! 1 and 2. From my understanding, the prophecy was put in place over 500yrs ago when Celestia was still active, thus it went off automatically. The fact that Fontaine isn't punished now is proof that Celestia needs to be active to administer punishment for violating said rules. If the rules themselves punished nations, Fontaine would already be catching hell or at least another prophecy. 3. Natlan has HEAVY rumors that Xbalanque (a previous pyro archon) is still alive even through Mavuika is occupying the pyro throne. BUT then again Natlan people die and resurrect all the time so maybe that counts as the death that allows them to leave the throne... I'm not sure yet. Only time will tell I guess...
@@NovaImpact144 Counter to your counter point: 1 and 2. Nope. The prophecy was not put in place 500 years ago. As far as my knowledge of Fontaine history, Egeria was the first Hydro archon. Thus she must've commited the sin shortly after the archon war and received the prophecy/punishment from Celestia shortly after. The stone slates was simply a recall of the prophecy as seen by The Visionary shortly before the Cataclysm to remind the people of Fontaine of their forgotten sin and Fate. Also as I said before, even if Celestia is inactive, the rules of the world they established is still in effect, thus the rules would continue to shape the world to fulfill the prophecy. It may be hard to understand this, so in simpler terms, the rules are like a system that governs the world. Celestia may be able to change it to their will, but it functions independently from Celestia. With Celestia inactive, there wont be any Celestial nail active or envoys, but the rules will continue to regulate the world. 3. The pyro archon is a special case as described in the latest archon quest, since the archon is not a god but a human. This is made possible due to Ronova's assistance to Xbalanque. Knowing that Xbalanque's supposed death is the same as Mavuika 500 years ago, by going to the sacred flame, I think Xbalanque died because Mavuika also died. Which is why the pyro archon was inherited by other natlaneans during their death/absence. In mavuika's case, as per plan 500 years ago, she was resurrected this time (possibly by the previous archon) as the 6 tribes are now ready for war. She then re-earned the pyro archon's throne by competing in the Pilgrimage of the Sacred Flame. So I believe Xbalanque is dead but he can still be resurrected just like Mavuika.
I agree with most of it, but her death was necessary to give back her powers to Neuvilette. It couldn't be taken just as gnosis. And after knowing she must die, she invented a plan to destroy the celestial throne. If she killed herself Neuvilette would get his powers back, but not with love for people. Thrones don't hold authority, they only tap into world power collecting it for Celestia. I wonder if she knew what gnosis really are. She knew, she was a sinner holding dead part of descender. She wouldn't call her that for previous sins. Hydro throne is broken, which means all archons must feel their unity is destroyed. Celestia was never weaker than now. I think that pyro throne will also be destroyed soon. One by one breaking Celestia's control over the elements.
we're also missing that neuvilette wasn't "creating" human bodies, he was specifically turning water (primordial sea) into wine (the blood of humans), referencing sacrement. He was not able to do this without the destruction of the hydro throne because celestial powers control the dragon veins (spirit veins in the crappy english translation) using their celestial nails and thrones. the dragon veins command the ley lines, so without control of the dragon veins, he cannot use the ley lines to turn water to wine. thus, the hydro throne had to be destroyed. normally, what would follow this is a celestial nail, but as abyss twin says, celestia is asleep. If focalors simply passed on the archonship to neuvilette, he would still have to contend with dragon veins, which are ruled by celestial authority. Thus, focalors had to destroy the hydro throne, and she just happened to die with it. It doesn't matter if celestia knows or not, or if the prophecy does or does not come true, to this end. However, the more this information spreads, the faster the likelihood of a celestial nail dropping increases, so it makes sense that the plan was kept as secret as possible.
@@pieperson444 It is stated after the story that the people of fontaine didn't even have functioning reproductive organs until Neuvilette gave them real bodies. Because oceanids can't give birth. (That's why they prayed to the fountain) Now praying to the fountain is just a formality. It's strange but that is what happend.
One does not control their nation and roams freely as a bard, one 'died' and let the humans rule the nation, one decided to stop their nation's progress and steal visions (ambitions) for the sake of Eternity and not be destroyed by Heavenly Principles, one was locked up and recently freed and helped some people through dreams, one as said in this video and one who summoned 6 heroes from six tribes to fight Abyss and decided to be reborn by placing their life into Sacred Fire to lead the second fight again.......yea..weird
I think there is a higher purpose for her death that what we can see atm. Even if she knew Celestia is inactive I think she would have killed herself anyway. Besides all she wanted before she carried the burden of being the Hydro Achon is a human life and Furina has become it so Focalor may have thought the divinity part of her is no longer needed, or maybe the divinity part of her is tied too deeply with the Hydro Authority that only her complete death can allow it to be returned to Neuvi purely. I dunno, just cooking here. I just hope we don't get to...uh...see a another archon death at Natlan as all Himeko lookalikes(except HSR....for now) seems to have died.
Everything she did was necessary she is Focalors divinity, she didn't die so that divine throne would be destroyed, it's the other way around, she died because the divine throne was destroyed, because after divine throne disappeared there was no more divinity left for Focalors, only humanity(Furina) so divinity vanished also prophecy wasn't stopped, it was fulfilled. that was the point of the masquerade, to deceive fate and make it think that prophecy happened as it was supposed to, to not make an enemy of the divine. Focalors's divinity says this herself "i had to outwit the Heavenly principles, Allow the prophecy to be fulfilled, ostensibly at least, while saving everyone at the same time". prophecy is fate carved into Irminsul as Nahida states in her voice line about Furina. it is "history of the future", "story already written", it will happen even if the author(Heavenly principles) is asleep. Vision system they created is still working even without them and so is fate written by them, that's an undeniable fact. Divine throne had to be destroyed because Neuvillette had to make Fontanians as true humans with his gained full authority to save them from dissolving, also to remove Primordial Sea from the Narwhal so that it wouldn't regenerate endlessly and to replace indemnitium as an energy source of Fontaine with his full control over PneumaOusia. that was the whole point of the plan, to deceive fate and make it think that prophecy was fulfilled as it was supposed to and to save Fontanians at the same time.
I mean isn’t Furina just the oceanid-human body tht Egeria created for og Focalors? So even if Focalors divinity could give Neuvillette his authority without dying it’s not like she’d just go back to being an oceanid, her “true form” is furina, she’d just be her memories without any power
This is assuming that handling the archonhood to neuvilette is the same as returning the authority to him. Neuvilette was only able to turn fontainians to real humans when his dragon authority was returned to him. As shown to us, it was only returned when the throne was destroyed therefore focalors death was necessary to save the people from the primodial waters.
Focalors' death has more parallels with the events of Remuria than it seems. In Remuria's World Quest we were shown that Fate was written or "woven" as if it were a loom and Remo (who was a musician) discovered that the only way to circumvent it or get out of its control was by creating something similar (the Phobos). At the end of the Quest we find out that like Focalors, Remo required the help of a Dragon prince of his time for his plan to work and thus free all the inhabitants of Phobos control which had been corrupted and deviated from its original function, causing them to fight each other and Remuria to sink. Remo, like Focalors, committed the sin of creating new humans and that is why Celestia cursed him as well as Egeria. Taking all this into account, what I believe is that Focalors (a singer) took Remus' idea and did the opposite of him, she created her version of Phobos, the Oratrice to get enough indenmitiun which would play the role of the "serenade" that Remus wrote, when she had the necessary this energy could "Free the people of Fontain from the threads of destiny". Focalors sacrificed herself in the same way that Remus did when writing the Requiem, thus returning authority to Neuvillette and modifying Fontain's destiny, well, the prophecy was fulfilled and the people were "dissolved" in water but not to disappear but to be born again, that's why when the rain that Neuvillette creates falls on Fontain, it is he who says that "he forgives them" because he was the one who had power and authority over the primordial sea as legitimate owner, because the reason why the people dissolved was the water of the primordial sea that was leaking in fontain and Celestia knew it. That's why I think that Teyvat's "Destiny" and "Heavenly Principals" are a kind of Phobos or Loom of Fate that Phanes created when he arrived in Teyvat, since Nahida herself has a dialogue congratulating Furina where she says that the prophecy was written in the Irminsul a long time ago, and what she did not only saved Fontain, but saved the rest of the world... And Nahida is the avatar of the Irminsul.
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530 I thought it was, since in the Sumeru AQ, Rukkdevata made it clear that she could not erase herself, which is why she created Nahida from the purest branch of the irminsul to take her place and thus there would be no kind of error in the world.
@@yairiscapellan4874 she can’t erase herself because it will create a loophole in the history and affect rukhadevata personality after erase it Irminsul possible is can’t write any “ fake memory” to fulfil the gap cause by the dissapear of rukhadevata existence in the history It not easy to replace the existence of an archon And rukhadevata still not completly dead, if she erase herself memory, she can’t know what she will do after that
Isn't it interesting to know that archons know how to destroy their divine thrones? I bet they'd all be willing to let the dragon sovereigns take over if only to help mankind alongside them.
That's the point, they know the throne exists, but the sovereign dragons simply HATE them with all their might, they were lucky that the Hydro dragon was reincarnated in humanoid form, so focalors took advantage of this to bring him to Fontaine after a few millennia and teach him about humanity and make him get used to and like fontainians (I think they should thank Enkanomiya's sin them).
Dendro dragon and pyro dragon hate human Not sure about the rest Neuvilette is new generation dragon and was invited to live with human so he not develop a hated with human
Question im curious even if nuvilette created a vessel for focalors wouldnt it just be furina with with retained hydro archon memories and I bet you fontain would have awkward situation
Honestly I disagree, think of it this way she restored justice and severed a tie between fontaine and the heavenly principles, confirmed that they were inactive so giving the fatui and abyss confirmation that they’re not active and probably a large advantage (assuming they’re trying to fight celestia) Perhaps she weighted the pros and cons and honestly while i hate it, having her die is a better option than the possibility of the principles becoming aware.
Fate is a fickle thing, fate is sort of a separate thing from the heavenly principals the profecy would have been fofilled regardless of their presence, also an elemental authority cannot be handed over to a dragon so easily because dragons cannot inherit the title of archon since the authority is tied to the throne of archon hood nuvilet wouldn’t be able to receive the authority without focalors dieing
Like Focalors told Furina once, Everything will end in the most dramatic and magnificent Trial, well once Celestia waked up they will defenitely deliver Furina the most dramatic and magnificent Trial. Stay strong Furina, we believe in you😥
Just think: If Forcalors was still alive, Fontaine could recieve a bigger consequence, because she still could be punished and as so Fontaine. But if she is dead, and no one knows that, except Neuvilette, how could Fontaine be judged as sinner? That's why she "fooled" the heanvily principles. Because they couldn't charge Fointaine as sinners again. I know, I know, they recivied true blood because of Neuvilette, but they don't know this as well.
Focalors being dead doesn't mean Fontaine won't be punished unfortunately. Celestia has a bad habit of punishing entire nations for transgressions. Like in Khaenri'ah. Those innocent people are still cursed after 500 years.
I wonder if Celestia's intention is for them to be questioned, it sounds suspicious that they would make a prophecy that would drown people 500 years later. Didn't Honkai Impact have a similar plot? I would like it to be that way because it gives new meaning to the death of Focalors and more nuances to Celestia. Also, I'm really curious how Lumine knew about the Focalors, I assume Veldfornir told her because otherwise I have no idea how she would know or maybe because of the ley lines.
The authority of sovereign dragon stay inside archon throne Furina can’t take it out of the throne by normal way Destroy it is the only way, but since she can’t just take it out of herself to destroy She must to kill herself in order to destroy it So no, she not sacrifice herself for nothing About what happen after that is depend neuvilette Focalor already did everything she can do
I think you underestimate neuv a bit too much, the moment he got the authority he was ready to box with celestia, ofc the gods would win but not easily, basically not worth the trouble since the abyss is their problem also, they gave power to archons to push back the abyss but if they fight with neuv it would only put them in unnecessary danger, i think the gods know about how neuv got his og power, but is just not taking action. Focalor bet everything on neuv what if focalor hid away neuv from the gods, from what we know only apep and neuv are sovereign, what if they attack all incarnation of sovereigns but left apep alone since he was already dying, we also know that neuv didn't know how he got a human form, maybe that's because of focalor, she did fool the heavens because her plans wasn't stopped the prophecy/punishment was avoided and c'mon it's neuv, even he said he wants to judge Celestia and all gods right there and then, neuv is a logical mab he wouldn't make such statement if he wasn't confident. Put some respect on my hydro otter.
@@NovaImpact144 tbh the reason for this was the 3rd descender aka the dragon king almost, and I say almost won by himself... He lost because he got too corrupted by the abyss that's why rukkha and egeria had to sac theirselves to stop the spreading of corruption, the gnosis Celestia use to give archons their power? Is the corpse of the dragon king. I'm not saying Celestia is weak by no means, the shades are said to be so powerful they control laws, like time, space etc... but the sovereigns or dragon sovereigns are just built diff.
Yeah from the main plot alone which "fooling celestia" Is almost impossible. The end of the day the hydro authority is given back to neuvi, they'll find out sooner or later. The only possibility that i can think of is neuvi give half of his authority back to furina. Since celestia is inactive, they wouldn't notice the power transfer from focalor to neuvi to furina Also since she's fooling no one, she could create furina later so furina doesn't have to suffer for 500 yrs.
Ashikai made a claim, that it wasn't a prophecy, but a warning. After all, the cause of rising sea level was Narwal, which is a beast from another world (not sent by Celestia), therefore Celesria warned the hydro Archon, not threatened her.
the logic is, if one "archon as authority" died the elemental power is given back to the elemental sovereigns because they are being the true wielders of elemental authority in their respective regions. But for Natlan case.......... Seems still in the grey area. Because If a sovereign dies without a clear successor, the element might become unstable or harder to control. This could lead to chaos, environmental shifts, or a loss of balance in that region. This is mean, Anemo, Geo, electro and Pyro sovereign are still alive but hiding somewhere...
@@Xinevlin no Just dying not make the authority comeback to fhe dragon You must to destroy archon throne to make it happen Destroy the throne will kill the archon in the progress But the archon dead not affect the throne It will just choosing another person become archon
How she can give the authority back to the dragon if she not end her life ? She can’t take it out to give it to neuvilette The throne is not same like gnosis
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530 I mean if Nahida is a clone who met her original I doubt there aren’t other ways to bypass the system even if focalor had to be bound to furina as a sprint guide
@@kerroseir4764 the reason the last piece of rukhadevata still remain possibly is due to irminsul and forbident knowledge It is not something focalor have to keep her exist And even if she have it, i doubt she dare to use it consider the risk
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530 just saying there are ways to bypass her fate not that I know how but how the world is set up, especially with the recent pyro archon they’re not locked out of escaping their fate
I have always wanderd since nuevalette made the people of fontaine into true humans doesn't that make the other humans not tru humans because they were made by the primordial one an alien but nuevalette is a tyvat native which means his creations are also tyvat natives
There were no humans before the primordial, so all those created in the new human plane and in the world of Teyvat are originated from Teyvat (just as you are from the country you were born in) therefore the true and original human being is the one created by the primordial, hence the HP's judgment regarding the creation of a new species of humans with the primordial sea (something that belongs to dragons and goes against the primordial). In short: Neuvillette with his authority and total control as the heart of the primordial sea, just copied the humans and remade the blood and veins of the people of Fontaine so that they are identical to what the PO created, since in this way they would not be considered part of the primordial sea and would not dissolve to return to the primordial sea (those created by the primordial sea were seen as descendants of or in some way related to the dragons and the Hydro dragon, since he is the heart of the primordial sea, which does not go according to humans created by the primordial one).
This is actually something I realized after playing this quest. The issue with your logic however, is that you are operating with the idea that the throne can just be handed back over to Neuvillette without issues. But I doubt that is the case. They probably incorporated measures against a dragon just taking back the throne. And even if they did, maybe they would just become Archons themselves. And then they would probably not get the whole authority back since its still in the throne. So its likely that the throne had to be destroyed to give it back. Why did she need to die in the process? My best guess is that Archon and throne become linked, so if the Archon dies ,which would create massive elemental energy, it could be directed to the throne and destroy it in the process. But I am not convinced that it was actually needed. What I mean is, I dont believe the prophesy was real. Like you brought up, Celestia didnt act when the throne was destroyed. Venti and Zhongli has run around doing whatever they wanted for 500 years and Nahida was basically a prisioner. That is suspicious as hell, and we had a line from Neuvillette where he talked about a play about a mansion that was run by its old mistress but in the end it turned out that the mistress was dead all along and the servants of the mansion had just continued without her. We dont even know the origin of the prophesy... Who createad it? Why such a non direct way when we know gods have been able do very dark curses. And the most sus thing of all...The way it happened. It happened because of a whale. A whale planted in the primal sea by one of the sinners of Khaenriah! If it was truly a fate created by the heavenly principles, why was it triggered by a sinner? How does sinners even exist? If Celestia truly can control fate and weave it as they want, why would they weave events that caused khaenriahs fate to make them into enemies of themselves? Or to let the rest of teyvats fate be affected by them? When we get the truth from Mavuika, she speak as if fate can be changed. And quite easily too! Something is off here.
I find it funny watching this after watching Ashikai's theory exactly on why Focalors have to die XD the video is called The Secret Of The Gnosis Isn't What You Think - A Genshin Impact Theory (specifically the thrones of heavens chapter/timestamp)
Huh.... now Focalors was out of the loop ..not knowing about Celestia being missed in action but.... WHY DIDN'T Neuvilette SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT??? He was talking with her he could talk her out of it by providing information. Or at least try to anyways.
Ok but perhaps Focalor wasn’t certain of the Heavenly Principle’s current status. In order to guarantee that her people makes it through the prophesied flood, she still had to make that sacrifice.
I actually had the same question as you😂 I don't care what anyone says, it's still feels for nothing, especially if Neuvillete is not bound by fate, wich i think he might not be, i think i read something about that somewhere
Aren't you jumping the gun Nova? In fact here's another question, did Makoto die in vain? The objective here is the salvation of mankind. We know whatever is fated to happen will happen. A broken bowl is broken no matter what happened, known or unknown. Same thing for a dead archon.
I think her plan was more so to circumvent the prophesy and fate rather than celestia. It was said that the prophesy can never be avoided and I’m guessing due to some iriminsul shenanigans, it would be easily found out that there is two sets of data of the same entity. The moment she deletes herself and dies would also solidify that human furina is truly the sole and only hydro archon “that just lost her power” who weeps thus deceiving fate that is manipulated by the iriminsul
Here are the things you missed:
1. Celestia may have been inactive but their rules (Heavenly Principles which is also the Primordial one but lets talk about the rules for now) remains active. The foundations of the prophecy is the very rules Celestia established. Therefore whether Celestia is active or not, the prophecy will be fulfilled because its what the rules of the world dictates (Fate).
2. From (1), Focalors knew of Celestia's inactivity and took it to her advantage. She cant fool Celestia but she can fool the rules. She went around the rules (as our sibling said "a flagrant regard of the rules") to fulfill the prophecy ostensibly at least while saved her people.
3. Archons can choose their successor but it is also not easy for them to give away their authority. Celestia wouldn't just give the authorities to the gods only for them to easily return it to the sovereigns. The archons are forever bound the their throne until their death. The archons we know so far who have died are Makoto, Rukkhadevata and Egeria, and in their death their throne was passed down because they simply died. But it is different for Focalors. Her final act was not simply her death, but take down the throne along with her death. Because only if the hydro archon's throne is destroyed would the authority be returned to neuvillete. Thats why she created the Oratrice to meet the energy requirements to destroy the hydro archon's throne, not just her death.
OOhhh Fascinating BUT COUTNER POINT!
1 and 2. From my understanding, the prophecy was put in place over 500yrs ago when Celestia was still active, thus it went off automatically. The fact that Fontaine isn't punished now is proof that Celestia needs to be active to administer punishment for violating said rules. If the rules themselves punished nations, Fontaine would already be catching hell or at least another prophecy.
3. Natlan has HEAVY rumors that Xbalanque (a previous pyro archon) is still alive even through Mavuika is occupying the pyro throne. BUT then again Natlan people die and resurrect all the time so maybe that counts as the death that allows them to leave the throne... I'm not sure yet. Only time will tell I guess...
@@NovaImpact144 Counter to your counter point:
1 and 2. Nope. The prophecy was not put in place 500 years ago. As far as my knowledge of Fontaine history, Egeria was the first Hydro archon. Thus she must've commited the sin shortly after the archon war and received the prophecy/punishment from Celestia shortly after. The stone slates was simply a recall of the prophecy as seen by The Visionary shortly before the Cataclysm to remind the people of Fontaine of their forgotten sin and Fate. Also as I said before, even if Celestia is inactive, the rules of the world they established is still in effect, thus the rules would continue to shape the world to fulfill the prophecy. It may be hard to understand this, so in simpler terms, the rules are like a system that governs the world. Celestia may be able to change it to their will, but it functions independently from Celestia. With Celestia inactive, there wont be any Celestial nail active or envoys, but the rules will continue to regulate the world.
3. The pyro archon is a special case as described in the latest archon quest, since the archon is not a god but a human. This is made possible due to Ronova's assistance to Xbalanque. Knowing that Xbalanque's supposed death is the same as Mavuika 500 years ago, by going to the sacred flame, I think Xbalanque died because Mavuika also died. Which is why the pyro archon was inherited by other natlaneans during their death/absence. In mavuika's case, as per plan 500 years ago, she was resurrected this time (possibly by the previous archon) as the 6 tribes are now ready for war. She then re-earned the pyro archon's throne by competing in the Pilgrimage of the Sacred Flame. So I believe Xbalanque is dead but he can still be resurrected just like Mavuika.
I agree with most of it, but her death was necessary to give back her powers to Neuvilette. It couldn't be taken just as gnosis.
And after knowing she must die, she invented a plan to destroy the celestial throne. If she killed herself Neuvilette would get his powers back, but not with love for people. Thrones don't hold authority, they only tap into world power collecting it for Celestia.
I wonder if she knew what gnosis really are. She knew, she was a sinner holding dead part of descender. She wouldn't call her that for previous sins.
Hydro throne is broken, which means all archons must feel their unity is destroyed. Celestia was never weaker than now.
I think that pyro throne will also be destroyed soon. One by one breaking Celestia's control over the elements.
we're also missing that neuvilette wasn't "creating" human bodies, he was specifically turning water (primordial sea) into wine (the blood of humans), referencing sacrement. He was not able to do this without the destruction of the hydro throne because celestial powers control the dragon veins (spirit veins in the crappy english translation) using their celestial nails and thrones. the dragon veins command the ley lines, so without control of the dragon veins, he cannot use the ley lines to turn water to wine. thus, the hydro throne had to be destroyed. normally, what would follow this is a celestial nail, but as abyss twin says, celestia is asleep.
If focalors simply passed on the archonship to neuvilette, he would still have to contend with dragon veins, which are ruled by celestial authority. Thus, focalors had to destroy the hydro throne, and she just happened to die with it. It doesn't matter if celestia knows or not, or if the prophecy does or does not come true, to this end. However, the more this information spreads, the faster the likelihood of a celestial nail dropping increases, so it makes sense that the plan was kept as secret as possible.
@@pieperson444 It is stated after the story that the people of fontaine didn't even have functioning reproductive organs until Neuvilette gave them real bodies. Because oceanids can't give birth. (That's why they prayed to the fountain) Now praying to the fountain is just a formality. It's strange but that is what happend.
The entire archon just have weird ways to fix theire own country
One does not control their nation and roams freely as a bard, one 'died' and let the humans rule the nation, one decided to stop their nation's progress and steal visions (ambitions) for the sake of Eternity and not be destroyed by Heavenly Principles, one was locked up and recently freed and helped some people through dreams, one as said in this video and one who summoned 6 heroes from six tribes to fight Abyss and decided to be reborn by placing their life into Sacred Fire to lead the second fight again.......yea..weird
I think there is a higher purpose for her death that what we can see atm. Even if she knew Celestia is inactive I think she would have killed herself anyway. Besides all she wanted before she carried the burden of being the Hydro Achon is a human life and Furina has become it so Focalor may have thought the divinity part of her is no longer needed, or maybe the divinity part of her is tied too deeply with the Hydro Authority that only her complete death can allow it to be returned to Neuvi purely. I dunno, just cooking here. I just hope we don't get to...uh...see a another archon death at Natlan as all Himeko lookalikes(except HSR....for now) seems to have died.
Everything she did was necessary
she is Focalors divinity, she didn't die so that divine throne would be destroyed, it's the other way around, she died because the divine throne was destroyed, because after divine throne disappeared there was no more divinity left for Focalors, only humanity(Furina) so divinity vanished
also prophecy wasn't stopped, it was fulfilled. that was the point of the masquerade, to deceive fate and make it think that prophecy happened as it was supposed to, to not make an enemy of the divine. Focalors's divinity says this herself "i had to outwit the Heavenly principles, Allow the prophecy to be fulfilled, ostensibly at least, while saving everyone at the same time". prophecy is fate carved into Irminsul as Nahida states in her voice line about Furina. it is "history of the future", "story already written", it will happen even if the author(Heavenly principles) is asleep. Vision system they created is still working even without them and so is fate written by them, that's an undeniable fact.
Divine throne had to be destroyed because Neuvillette had to make Fontanians as true humans with his gained full authority to save them from dissolving, also to remove Primordial Sea from the Narwhal so that it wouldn't regenerate endlessly and to replace indemnitium as an energy source of Fontaine with his full control over PneumaOusia.
that was the whole point of the plan, to deceive fate and make it think that prophecy was fulfilled as it was supposed to and to save Fontanians at the same time.
I mean isn’t Furina just the oceanid-human body tht Egeria created for og Focalors? So even if Focalors divinity could give Neuvillette his authority without dying it’s not like she’d just go back to being an oceanid, her “true form” is furina, she’d just be her memories without any power
This is assuming that handling the archonhood to neuvilette is the same as returning the authority to him.
Neuvilette was only able to turn fontainians to real humans when his dragon authority was returned to him. As shown to us, it was only returned when the throne was destroyed therefore focalors death was necessary to save the people from the primodial waters.
Focalors' death has more parallels with the events of Remuria than it seems. In Remuria's World Quest we were shown that Fate was written or "woven" as if it were a loom and Remo (who was a musician) discovered that the only way to circumvent it or get out of its control was by creating something similar (the Phobos). At the end of the Quest we find out that like Focalors, Remo required the help of a Dragon prince of his time for his plan to work and thus free all the inhabitants of Phobos control which had been corrupted and deviated from its original function, causing them to fight each other and Remuria to sink. Remo, like Focalors, committed the sin of creating new humans and that is why Celestia cursed him as well as Egeria.
Taking all this into account, what I believe is that Focalors (a singer) took Remus' idea and did the opposite of him, she created her version of Phobos, the Oratrice to get enough indenmitiun which would play the role of the "serenade" that Remus wrote, when she had the necessary this energy could "Free the people of Fontain from the threads of destiny". Focalors sacrificed herself in the same way that Remus did when writing the Requiem, thus returning authority to Neuvillette and modifying Fontain's destiny, well, the prophecy was fulfilled and the people were "dissolved" in water but not to disappear but to be born again, that's why when the rain that Neuvillette creates falls on Fontain, it is he who says that "he forgives them" because he was the one who had power and authority over the primordial sea as legitimate owner, because the reason why the people dissolved was the water of the primordial sea that was leaking in fontain and Celestia knew it.
That's why I think that Teyvat's "Destiny" and "Heavenly Principals" are a kind of Phobos or Loom of Fate that Phanes created when he arrived in Teyvat, since Nahida herself has a dialogue congratulating Furina where she says that the prophecy was written in the Irminsul a long time ago, and what she did not only saved Fontain, but saved the rest of the world... And Nahida is the avatar of the Irminsul.
Nahida is not avatar of irminsul
Only is a protector
Unless she develop her true form become the second irminsul
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530
I thought it was, since in the Sumeru AQ, Rukkdevata made it clear that she could not erase herself, which is why she created Nahida from the purest branch of the irminsul to take her place and thus there would be no kind of error in the world.
@@yairiscapellan4874 she can’t erase herself because it will create a loophole in the history and affect rukhadevata personality after erase it
Irminsul possible is can’t write any “ fake memory” to fulfil the gap cause by the dissapear of rukhadevata existence in the history
It not easy to replace the existence of an archon
And rukhadevata still not completly dead, if she erase herself memory, she can’t know what she will do after that
Isn't it interesting to know that archons know how to destroy their divine thrones? I bet they'd all be willing to let the dragon sovereigns take over if only to help mankind alongside them.
That's the point, they know the throne exists, but the sovereign dragons simply HATE them with all their might, they were lucky that the Hydro dragon was reincarnated in humanoid form, so focalors took advantage of this to bring him to Fontaine after a few millennia and teach him about humanity and make him get used to and like fontainians (I think they should thank Enkanomiya's sin them).
Dendro dragon and pyro dragon hate human
Not sure about the rest
Neuvilette is new generation dragon and was invited to live with human so he not develop a hated with human
Question im curious even if nuvilette created a vessel for focalors wouldnt it just be furina with with retained hydro archon memories and I bet you fontain would have awkward situation
Since Furina is a famous actress, they could just say Focalors is her body double, which would be a really cute ironic twist imo 😄
Honestly I disagree, think of it this way she restored justice and severed a tie between fontaine and the heavenly principles, confirmed that they were inactive so giving the fatui and abyss confirmation that they’re not active and probably a large advantage (assuming they’re trying to fight celestia) Perhaps she weighted the pros and cons and honestly while i hate it, having her die is a better option than the possibility of the principles becoming aware.
Fate is a fickle thing, fate is sort of a separate thing from the heavenly principals the profecy would have been fofilled regardless of their presence, also an elemental authority cannot be handed over to a dragon so easily because dragons cannot inherit the title of archon since the authority is tied to the throne of archon hood nuvilet wouldn’t be able to receive the authority without focalors dieing
Like Focalors told Furina once, Everything will end in the most dramatic and magnificent Trial, well once Celestia waked up they will defenitely deliver Furina the most dramatic and magnificent Trial.
Stay strong Furina, we believe in you😥
Just think: If Forcalors was still alive, Fontaine could recieve a bigger consequence, because she still could be punished and as so Fontaine.
But if she is dead, and no one knows that, except Neuvilette, how could Fontaine be judged as sinner?
That's why she "fooled" the heanvily principles. Because they couldn't charge Fointaine as sinners again.
I know, I know, they recivied true blood because of Neuvilette, but they don't know this as well.
Focalors being dead doesn't mean Fontaine won't be punished unfortunately. Celestia has a bad habit of punishing entire nations for transgressions. Like in Khaenri'ah. Those innocent people are still cursed after 500 years.
The punishment is the sea
What focalor can deal only is the sea, anything after that will must to depend neuvilette
Nothing more ocalor can do
When I saw this and I was thinking…what if they don’t know how to give birth?would that cause entire Fontaine to go extinct??😅
@@ChildewaaaaaaReeeeeeeee they can give birth, the different part with human is how they can be pregnant
@@NovaImpact144the whole point is, they are not oceanid anymore, so what focalors did is to clean their butt, that way no “sinners” will be charged.
I wonder if Celestia's intention is for them to be questioned, it sounds suspicious that they would make a prophecy that would drown people 500 years later. Didn't Honkai Impact have a similar plot? I would like it to be that way because it gives new meaning to the death of Focalors and more nuances to Celestia. Also, I'm really curious how Lumine knew about the Focalors, I assume Veldfornir told her because otherwise I have no idea how she would know or maybe because of the ley lines.
The authority of sovereign dragon stay inside archon throne
Furina can’t take it out of the throne by normal way
Destroy it is the only way, but since she can’t just take it out of herself to destroy
She must to kill herself in order to destroy it
So no, she not sacrifice herself for nothing
About what happen after that is depend neuvilette
Focalor already did everything she can do
I think you underestimate neuv a bit too much, the moment he got the authority he was ready to box with celestia, ofc the gods would win but not easily, basically not worth the trouble since the abyss is their problem also,
they gave power to archons to push back the abyss but if they fight with neuv it would only put them in unnecessary danger, i think the gods know about how neuv got his og power, but is just not taking action.
Focalor bet everything on neuv what if focalor hid away neuv from the gods, from what we know only apep and neuv are sovereign, what if they attack all incarnation of sovereigns but left apep alone since he was already dying, we also know that neuv didn't know how he got a human form, maybe that's because of focalor, she did fool the heavens because her plans wasn't stopped the prophecy/punishment was avoided and c'mon it's neuv, even he said he wants to judge Celestia and all gods right there and then, neuv is a logical mab he wouldn't make such statement if he wasn't confident.
Put some respect on my hydro otter.
Well I think that Neuvilette would beat anyone in teyvat (almost dead Celestia included)
Celestia fought the 7 sovereign dragons at full power and won that's why they run Teyvat lol
@@NovaImpact144 didn't think she got help from the 4 shades? And an army?
@@NovaImpact144 tbh the reason for this was the 3rd descender aka the dragon king almost, and I say almost won by himself... He lost because he got too corrupted by the abyss that's why rukkha and egeria had to sac theirselves to stop the spreading of corruption, the gnosis Celestia use to give archons their power? Is the corpse of the dragon king. I'm not saying Celestia is weak by no means, the shades are said to be so powerful they control laws, like time, space etc... but the sovereigns or dragon sovereigns are just built diff.
No other archon quest will be better than this untill dainsleif finally concludes but fontaine pat h felt like filler after the whole nation was done
Yeah from the main plot alone which "fooling celestia" Is almost impossible. The end of the day the hydro authority is given back to neuvi, they'll find out sooner or later.
The only possibility that i can think of is neuvi give half of his authority back to furina. Since celestia is inactive, they wouldn't notice the power transfer from focalor to neuvi to furina
Also since she's fooling no one, she could create furina later so furina doesn't have to suffer for 500 yrs.
Ashikai made a claim, that it wasn't a prophecy, but a warning.
After all, the cause of rising sea level was Narwal, which is a beast from another world (not sent by Celestia), therefore Celesria warned the hydro Archon, not threatened her.
That was not a warning, was a punishment. Celestia could have conceded authority to Egeria to do what Neuvillette did after in the quest.
the logic is, if one "archon as authority" died the elemental power is given back to the elemental sovereigns because they are being the true wielders of elemental authority in their respective regions. But for Natlan case.......... Seems still in the grey area. Because If a sovereign dies without a clear successor, the element might become unstable or harder to control. This could lead to chaos, environmental shifts, or a loss of balance in that region. This is mean, Anemo, Geo, electro and Pyro sovereign are still alive but hiding somewhere...
@@Xinevlin no
Just dying not make the authority comeback to fhe dragon
You must to destroy archon throne to make it happen
Destroy the throne will kill the archon in the progress
But the archon dead not affect the throne
It will just choosing another person become archon
Sort of yeah. She definitely didn’t have to end her existence to get what she needed
How she can give the authority back to the dragon if she not end her life ?
She can’t take it out to give it to neuvilette
The throne is not same like gnosis
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530 I mean if Nahida is a clone who met her original I doubt there aren’t other ways to bypass the system even if focalor had to be bound to furina as a sprint guide
@@kerroseir4764 the reason the last piece of rukhadevata still remain possibly is due to irminsul and forbident knowledge
It is not something focalor have to keep her exist
And even if she have it, i doubt she dare to use it consider the risk
@@vietcuongnguyenle8530 just saying there are ways to bypass her fate not that I know how but how the world is set up, especially with the recent pyro archon they’re not locked out of escaping their fate
I have always wanderd since nuevalette made the people of fontaine into true humans doesn't that make the other humans not tru humans because they were made by the primordial one an alien but nuevalette is a tyvat native which means his creations are also tyvat natives
There were no humans before the primordial, so all those created in the new human plane and in the world of Teyvat are originated from Teyvat (just as you are from the country you were born in) therefore the true and original human being is the one created by the primordial, hence the HP's judgment regarding the creation of a new species of humans with the primordial sea (something that belongs to dragons and goes against the primordial). In short: Neuvillette with his authority and total control as the heart of the primordial sea, just copied the humans and remade the blood and veins of the people of Fontaine so that they are identical to what the PO created, since in this way they would not be considered part of the primordial sea and would not dissolve to return to the primordial sea (those created by the primordial sea were seen as descendants of or in some way related to the dragons and the Hydro dragon, since he is the heart of the primordial sea, which does not go according to humans created by the primordial one).
@@hinomi107 thank you
This is actually something I realized after playing this quest. The issue with your logic however, is that you are operating with the idea that the throne can just be handed back over to Neuvillette without issues. But I doubt that is the case. They probably incorporated measures against a dragon just taking back the throne. And even if they did, maybe they would just become Archons themselves. And then they would probably not get the whole authority back since its still in the throne. So its likely that the throne had to be destroyed to give it back. Why did she need to die in the process? My best guess is that Archon and throne become linked, so if the Archon dies ,which would create massive elemental energy, it could be directed to the throne and destroy it in the process.
But I am not convinced that it was actually needed. What I mean is, I dont believe the prophesy was real. Like you brought up, Celestia didnt act when the throne was destroyed. Venti and Zhongli has run around doing whatever they wanted for 500 years and Nahida was basically a prisioner. That is suspicious as hell, and we had a line from Neuvillette where he talked about a play about a mansion that was run by its old mistress but in the end it turned out that the mistress was dead all along and the servants of the mansion had just continued without her.
We dont even know the origin of the prophesy... Who createad it? Why such a non direct way when we know gods have been able do very dark curses.
And the most sus thing of all...The way it happened. It happened because of a whale. A whale planted in the primal sea by one of the sinners of Khaenriah! If it was truly a fate created by the heavenly principles, why was it triggered by a sinner? How does sinners even exist? If Celestia truly can control fate and weave it as they want, why would they weave events that caused khaenriahs fate to make them into enemies of themselves? Or to let the rest of teyvats fate be affected by them?
When we get the truth from Mavuika, she speak as if fate can be changed. And quite easily too! Something is off here.
I find it funny watching this after watching Ashikai's theory exactly on why Focalors have to die XD
the video is called The Secret Of The Gnosis Isn't What You Think - A Genshin Impact Theory (specifically the thrones of heavens chapter/timestamp)
Huh.... now Focalors was out of the loop ..not knowing about Celestia being missed in action but.... WHY DIDN'T Neuvilette SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT??? He was talking with her he could talk her out of it by providing information. Or at least try to anyways.
Ok but perhaps Focalor wasn’t certain of the Heavenly Principle’s current status. In order to guarantee that her people makes it through the prophesied flood, she still had to make that sacrifice.
I actually had the same question as you😂
I don't care what anyone says, it's still feels for nothing, especially if Neuvillete is not bound by fate, wich i think he might not be, i think i read something about that somewhere
"don't care what anyone says even if i am 100% wrong because i didn't understand what happened"
This video was in vain
Her death still served some purpose... Not to mention the whale of the Abyss
Avoiding the gaze of celestia was precautionary
I think... Genshin lore is way too confusing 😭
Aren't you jumping the gun Nova? In fact here's another question, did Makoto die in vain? The objective here is the salvation of mankind. We know whatever is fated to happen will happen. A broken bowl is broken no matter what happened, known or unknown. Same thing for a dead archon.
Focalors was still better than Ei.
😢😢😢
Fontaine is going to become the next khaenri’ah😊 5:29