The Race to Restore Byzantium
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- After the Fourth Crusade of 1204, the Byzantine Empire shattered into multiple factions each racing to prove they're the true continuation of Rome. Only one would win.
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Information Sources:
Angold, Michael (1999). "Byzantium in exile". In Abulafia, David (ed.). The New Cambridge Medieval History, Volume 5, c.1198-c.1300. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 543-568.
Angold, Michael (2011). "The Latin Empire of Constantinople, 1204-1261: Marriage Strategies". Identities and Allegiances in the Eastern Mediterranean after 1204. Farnham: Ashgate Publishing Limited. pp. 47-68
Nicol, Donald M. (1984). The Despotate of Epiros, 1267-1479: A Contribution to the History of Greece in the Middle Ages. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Treadgold, Warren (1997). A History of the Byzantine State and Society. Stanford, California: Stanford University Press.
Music used:
"Crusade" by Kevin MacLeod
found at www.incompetech.com
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Where's your march store? I need to buy these yugioh cards!
Hey man, love your vids so just wanna start with how much i respect your grind. If you don't mind I'll bring up smth on the pronunciation of Boniface. So it's either Bonny-Face or Bonny-Fahss in English, or Bonny-Facho in Italian. Love your work and huge appreciation!
For you daddy
Damn Venice
They destroyed the dream that was Rome
real
Your content is so incredible, i hope you become a big creator someday!
"What if the Latin empire survived" would be a nice alt hist concept tbh
VENICE IS mid as hell
Byzantines seriously need new support in the upcoming booster set. Ever since the Ottoman archetype was released, Byzantines have not been meta relevant whatsoever, so hopefully Konami pulls through and gives that deck an upgrade
but konami abandoned us, look at the new generations of cards that have the us archetype, when we had the prussian archetype at least the game was cool despite people thinked it was overpowered and baned it
I can’t wait for Konami to release the the Pan-Africa and Latin America structure decks. I here they will be broken when combined with the China engine. Hopefully that will power creep the US archetype.
Honestly I stopped playing myself after the Caliphate Archetype was released.
@@mylandaigle7160the Caliphate archetype gave a choice between using a Roman based deck, a Persian based deck or a Muslim based deck. It was one of the most balanced eras within the game
@@JohnJohnson-zt3bv Yeah but I feel like the Roman and Caliphate archetype kind of replaced so many archetypes that still saw some play, like the Antigonid, the Ptolematic, and even the Persian archetype. Really just made them all super irrelevant.
It's honestly surprising how the Eastern Roman empire lasted as long as it did despite constant infighting and decay
They really were the Eastern Roman Empire, they continued the Roman trend of almost falling apart before being saved by a great emperor
@@craigstephenson7676 they relied quite a bit on luck
its often reffered to as the sisyphean empire. constantly building up strength, only for all their hard work to thwarted by the next crisis.
@@mattward4916 As did most of the empires of the world
As Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions put it, they truly were a “Golden Disaster Empire”
Byzantine successor states by lifetime
Empire of Trebizont-257 years (1204-1461)
Epirus-255 years (1205-1337)(1356-1479)
Morea (successor to Latin empire in mainland Greece)-111 years (1349-1460)
Latin Empire-57 years (1204-1261)
Empire of Trebizont managed to outlast the Easter Roman empire by 8 years
Epirus did it for 26 years
How was Morea a successor to the Latin Empire? I don't think they even covered any of the same landmass.
I guess De Jure they did if you count the Principality of Achaia, but the nominal vassal states of the Latin Empire all just did whatever they wanted anyways.
@@sherlocksmuuug6692 yeah, I think they got things the wrong way round. Morea was run by brothers of the last Byzantine empire, no connection to the Latin Empire. Epirus was conquered by the Byzantines in the 14th century but re-established itself, but in a more western rather than Roman styling. Don't think there's any real link to the Latin Empire (beyond the general term "Latin" referring to Western Europeans) and I personally wouldn't count it as a Roman successor state post re-establishment.
I'd also add the Principality of Theodoro to the list of successor states (1475) and would consider it the very end of the Roman Empire.
Reminder Epirus was taken over by Italian Catholics
Theodoro?
@@wazzupp1029 it was a small city state in what is today Crimea
Venetians: We did Pope Innocent! We saved Constantinople!
Constantinople: **Sacked and looted beyond all repair**
Honestly people put too much of the blame on the Venetians specifically (which is unsurprising as their comrades were eager to shift the blame after they all got done pillaging together). They were mostly just along for the ride in order to somehow get enough money not to go bankrupt after the clownshow of a crusade left them holding the bag.
The French and to a lesser degree the German crusaders were the primary bloodthirsty, greedy butchers. *Especially* Boniface who started the whole "Hey lets invade the Roman Empire"-scheme. That snake got what was coming to him.
Who you think have kept away turks ships from the seas? The Cheese Ghost?
Pope Innocent: you did what?
Alexios and David Komnenos were the grandsons of Andronikos I through his son Manuel Komnenos, who often opposed his father's tyrannical rule. Minor mistake but thought it worth to point out.
why Georgia is always ignored? it was us who founded empire of Trebizond and it was our buffer state, Alexios and David Komnenos were relatives to King Tamar of Georgia
@@giorgijioshvili9713 They deliberately ignore it. Because it is difficult to accept that the peoples of the Eastern Black Sea Region have their own identity, not Romans. Because there are Laz and Georgians going to Greece from the Eastern Black Sea Region. They think they are Romans or Greeks. The truth is that they were neither Roman nor Greek. Even the Eastern Romans did not call the people of the Eastern Black Sea Region Roman. The Romans, Turks and Iranians called the Trabzon Empire the Laz Kingdom.
I love that Enrico Dandolo has more Attack than the Latin Empire.
I think you are not giving Trebizond as much credit as it deserves. While it did lose Sinope, it was very close to retaking Constantinople at one point before that, and remained one of, if not the most, wealthy states in the region. It also managed to keep its independence longer than any other successor state.
Trebizond was actually a pretty good one, although looking at it and calling it an Empire is stretching that definition imo.
Also sorry for my earlier comment, was directed at someone else but yeahh.
@@rawka_7929 That is true. Though it was as much of an Empire as the byzantines were in the 1400s.
@@cirthador1453 atleast the Byzantines had the claim of well, the Byzantines. They were already an Empire before and only reason they remained one even when they were basically a city state is because that title was just never taken from them before the Otto's conquered them.
Trebizond was perhaps the most legitimate of the claimants, unfortunately that actually winning thing Nicea did made them a lot more impressive and popular than the mere survival Trebizond had gotten going.
@@gokbay3057 I don't think it is right to associate the Trebizond Empire with the Eastern Roman Empire. Because the Eastern Roman Empire always saw the Trebizond Empire as the Laz Kingdom. The Persian and Seljuk Empires also called the Trebizond Empire the Tzaniti Kingdom. Since the majority of its people were Laz, the dynasty that ruled the Trebizond Empire came from the Eastern Roman royal family, but their claims on the Eastern Roman crown were not accepted.
If I had a nickel everytime an army sneaked it's way into Constantinople leading to the end of an empire, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
Just a few useful notes for the video, Alexios and David Grand Komnenos were the grandsons of Andronikos I and not his sons.
It would not necessarily be correct to say that Constantine Laskaris co-founded the Nicaean Empire because its inception began in 1203 when Theodore fled to the city when the Crusaders first arrived. It would not be until 1204 when Constantine went to join Theodore who had already started to carve out what would become the Nicean Empire. Constantine would die (probably) a year later fighting the Latins. His role, therefore in founding the Nicaean Empire was fairly minimal if any.
Would not the Empire of Thessalonica take the adjective form, The Thessalonian Empire?
The Empire of Thessalonica would actually splinter into two and then pieces after 1230: the Empire of Thessalonica under Manuel Komnenos Doukas, the Despotate of Epirus under Michael II and once he died in 1268, the Sebastocratate of Thessaly.
The people of Epirus are not Epirochians but Epirotes.
Michael VIII became emperor in a palace coup, which murdered the regent George Mouzalon. Michael VIII Palaiologos was not John IV Laskaris' brother.
Thank you, I’ve seen these four successor states a lot in history but never knew how they formed or unified to reunite the empire.
In the game crusader kings 2 the latin empire start date is my favorite one for this reason... It's so caotic ! Anything can happen, anyone might win, epirus, the latins,trebisond or even the turks, i love that and i wish it were available in ck3... I know mods do it but you get the ideia
Latin Empire winning is the good ending lol
Still cant believe how little the ERE was shown on tv or movies.
Bear in mind that, as this was happening, the Mongols were arriving in the East and really did a number on the Seljuks. During the 1300's the state would disintegrate into feuding Beyliks, which put the remnants of the Roman Empire up against more equal foes. There were several good tries to make a comeback, but constant infighting as well as fighting with the Italians really set the death blow for them.
Spoiler alert:
Byzantium was never restored.
Unfortunately😞
yet
The nicenes restored it although much much weaker than before.
Very interesting part of history. Such an interesting yet overlooked part of eastern Roman history
4:48 *Epirus and Albania. Epirus is the region of Northwestern Greece, famed from ancient times for the great Oracle of Dodona. To this day, the lands to the West of the Pindus and Thessaly are called Epirus, meaning infinite land
Æ P I R U S B E T H I N E R E A L M
sounds cool, idk
Yes Epirus is Hellenic kingdom. Infact the famous 3 time Greek Olympic gold medalist Pyrrus Dimas is from South Albania.. he is ethnicity Greek...
The Eastern Roman Empire almost lasted as much as the Roman Kingdom, Republic and Western Empire together!
Considering how the empire was in a state of near total anarchy for centuries, it's honestly impressive how long it survived.
Cringe Latin Empire fan vs. chad Eastern Roman Empire enjoyer.
Fr 👆💪
Holy roman empire creaming itself
Alpha Latin empire casually breaching the impregnable city and looting it for weeks 💪💪
@@GeldtheGelded Because the previous Byzantine Emperor fled with the actual treasure, leaving them Broke for 60 years straight.
@@GeldtheGelded the Latín Empire never did that, it was the crusaders
Kinda sad that the Laskarids weren’t ever able to have a full Roman emperor when they were one of the best Roman dynasties and had consistently good emperors. The Palaiologos dynasty ruled until the fall of Constantinople and was fairly consistently mediocre (although not anywhere near terrible by Roman standards).
Also a correction at 8:56 Michael VIII was unrelated to John IV he was a noble who was essentially just a regent.
They were but it was rather distant from what I've heard
I would say that the Bulgarian Empire under Ivan Asen II is also a key player in the fight for the throne of Constantinople, rather than just a muscle.
Same, it’s just as much a Byzantine Successor state as the others.
Imagine if Bulgaria took Constantinople in an alternate timeline, or Epirus, the Seljuk rum, Trebizond - how the world would look different
@@tylerellis9097thats like saying the mongol empire was a Chinese empire.
@@mappingshaman5280 And that indeed gives birth to the Yuan Dynasty. Not even mentioning the Byzantines and Bulgarians in the 13th century shared much more cultural similarities than Mongol and Chinese culture back then.
@@alexlaza5301 The mongol empire was a seperate entity, culturally, historically and in general from china. In the same way, the bulgarian empire was also a separate entity in every way except faith from the Byzantine empire.
8:55 - Hey cousin, what's my present?
- Oh, you'll see... or rather you won't...
Justinian as a reference to past glories at the end I get.
Augustus?
Byzantium although a city situated where Constantinople would be,
was no more than a trading port in the time of Octavius.
talking about the Roman government/empire
Virgin empire of nicea fan VS Chad principality of theodoro enjoyer 😎
Truth-bomb dropped right here, Based Latin Empire Enjoyer vs cringe Empire of Nicaea fan.
@@maxtomlinson8134 nah the latin empire had too many Latins
@@kostas0352 Cope + Made them more Roman then the Byzantines were
@@maxtomlinson8134 cope^-1 + they didn't control Rome, the Byzantines did once
@@kostas0352 1/cope 🎉
I especially like this period of Roman history, so I’m excited about this video. Also, the Yu-Gi-Oh! inspired cards were a nice touch.
At 8:56, you incorrectly referred to John IV as Michael VIII's brother. Michael VIII was pretty much a random official with no imperial legitimacy who usurped the throne on the context of regency.
My friend,I hope you'll be in the 1st place in the future where you deserve.👍
I've heard a bit about the Byzantine conflicts of the 1200s, but now, I know a lot more about it. Thanks for the video!
I know the point is the Yugioh cards but for those who care, this set would be broken, many level four vanillas have too high attack values, while there is no arch. fusion card you can't create Latin Empire as it has no material, the level five is almost equal to blue eyes a level eight meaning some generic cards could summon it straight from the hand, my honest review is these are way too strong support for vanilla decks
"Hey kid, I got you a birthday present?" Blinds him in one eye. "Guess what you're getting for Christmas?"
Could you do the history of Oman: every year
I've watched your channel for eight years and I have no idea why you're making history Yugo card
"DANDOLO, I'VE COME TO BARGAIN!"
"YOU'VE COME TO PAY DENBTS! :DDDD"
1204 worst day of my life.
Is that a reference to something? What is that a reference to?
@@occam7382
ruclips.net/video/pUGLQ3gBfw0/видео.html
The Nicene empire is one of my favorite countries ever.
I think about Rome everyday. It lives on in our hearts.
To be completely honest, everyone here has had some love for Byzantium at some point
For me it was just the significance of Rome and the longevity of it, plus Rome was cool and the byzantines even more
Not me, I am here to defend the Latin Empire.
@@maxtomlinson8134 why?
@@villagernewsletter3577 Because it's universally underrated.
@@maxtomlinson8134 it’s underrated cause it’s cringe
The Byzantine empires history was basically Fortnite Battle Royale:
Season 1: Base game with Germanic Vandals and Goths
Season 2: Persians and Arabs
Season 3: Bulgars and Rus
Season 4: Pechnegs and Seljuks
Season 5: CRUSADER CROSSOVER!
Season 6:Ottoman rising
Epairoos I love how he says Epirus
The race to restore the Roman Empire was actually so persistent throughout the centuries, so much so as it was still attempted im early history, such as during the Russian-backed Orlov revolt and even the Greek war of independence, in which the Ultimate goal of the revolution was to capture Constantinople
I’d say the race lasted till 1945 with Mussonlini.
@@Carpediem357 valid point
Could you imagine if the Greeks actually managed to pull that off?
Modern Greeks embrace both their Ancient Hellenic legacy and their Byzantine Christian heritage by ethnicity.
Being the predominant ethnic group in the region of Constantinople and Ionia already for a millennium before the Roman Empire emerged, Greek people never vanished from their native lands. Hence it was only natural for the Eastern part to retain its pre-existing Hellenic identity and background.
The testimony of the Byzantine Empire is evident to this very day across the region, in every single Byzantine Church and monument, but first and foremost in the majestic Cathedral of “Hagia Sophia”, still standing for 1500 years now..
Sucks that they never joined each other after 1204
There was also the Despotate of Mystra which rose out of the Duchy of Morea.
Bulgaria was also another claimant for the Roman empire, as many of the Bulgarian rulers styled themselves as tsars(emperors) of the Bulgarians and the Romans. The administration of the country was also based after the one of the Eastern Roman empire as well as close cultural ties.
Yeah I don’t get why Bulgaria is ignored, Kaloyan was seen as a legitimate contender by the Byzantines themselves until his brutal tendencies squashed that support and if independence before 1204 Denys one as a successor state then Trebizond doesn’t count either.
Rome had plenty of Warring States-esque civil wars, especially 3rd century crisis
Yeah!!! Histo Ri Go is one of my favorite card games!
Ridge promo starts
Me: EVERYBODY WANNA BE A SUPERSTAR-
For clarity, the Byzantine Empire was not its historical name. Historically, the country was called the Roman Empire. At no point was it ever officially named the "Byzantine Empire" during its existence. The name "Byzantine" is a term used by modern historians to differentiate the late Eastern Roman Empire from the early empire prior to 395. Historians didn't start using the term "Byzantine Empire" until about two or three hundred years ago.
One could also argue (and it is not necessarily me making this argument, though I think it has merit) that this term was used to make the Eastern Empire more inherently Greek or _Eastern,_ and not at all associated with the traditional _Roman Empire,_ as many are not comfortable with the fact that the once great Roman Empire declined to such a weak and pathetic condition that it was conquered and replaced by an Islamic state (the Ottoman Empire).
By calling the Eastern Roman Empire the _"Byzantine"_ Empire, some could more easily present the actual Roman Empire as having abruptly declined and fallen within 81 years (395 - 476). This way, those same people could make the case that it wasn't the Roman Empire that succumbed to more powerful Muslims over 1,000 years, but some other abstract Eastern Empire that just pretended to be Rome.
This is further supported by the fact that, just as with the term "Byzantine Empire," the terms "Western Roman Empire" and "Eastern Roman Empire" are also just modern fabrications. Historically, these were not separate countries, and there never was a "Western" or "Eastern" Roman Empire. Even in the splits of both 363 and 395, the nation was still considered by all to be the single Roman Empire; it was just merely ruled by two Emperor's, each with their own predetermined jurisdictions. Even after 476, the eastern half was never called the "Eastern" Roman Empire, just the Roman Empire.
Multiple Ruler's/Emperor's were not uncommon in Rome even as far back as the time of Julius Caesar who had is first experience of power in the First Triumverate. Augustus began his rule in the Second Triumverate, and had inherited his two grandsons to become Co-Emperor's until they both died. Later, many Emperors shared their title with another Emperor as Co-Emperor's, both sharing power over the whole empre. And many times had there been many Emperor's at one time, each ruling their own territory, most notably starting with Diocletian in 285.
Can you please make those Byzantine Yu-Gi-Oh cards available for purchase somehow? They're wicked cool and I'd snap them up in an instant!
I expected the Sultanate of Rum to be drunk 24/7/365
The yugioh graphics are a really cool touch to the video
I'm honestly curious...
It almost seems like the Roman Empire was unique in not only how it fell, but also with how many wildly different groups tried to act as its successors throughout not just the Middle Ages, but throughout the various European ultra nationalist and fascist movements of the 20th century.
Are there any other states that have had similar attempted successor states?
The Sassanids kept bugging the romans because they wanted to restore the first Persian empire, almost succeeded in the war of 602-28.
@@SDArgo_FoC it's interesting how Persia, throughout most of recorded history, has been a notable hotbed of cultural influence.
Even today, we have Iran... While not a quote-on-quote "superpower," has held significant influence over the region--influencing the international diplomacy of several nations.
The region of Afghanistan has arguably similar influence.
those yugioh portrait styles are actually really sweet.
To be fair, Michael VIII had just become an undisputed Roman Emperor. Doing unspeakably horrific things to people is arguably the defining activity of a Roman Emperor.
0 mention of the Mongols who attached the Seljuks, Latins and Bulgarians during this period makes me sad
did Mongols indirectly cause the fall of Latin Empire..?
@@sinoroman No they did not, they fell because Henry of Flanders died in 1216, left without a strong heir, so it was put into weaker position it didn’t recover from. As for Mongols they actually beat the Latins in the end, but the Latin Empire defeated the mongols in a battle which is quiet notable since it’s mongols and they were in decline at that point.
Who cares
@@sinoromanNo, but they did weaken significantly Bulgaria.
8:00 this image is Ioannis Vatatzis!!! 😍 He is John IV not John III
Interesting, hadn't considered the change or difference in the byzantine empire after the conquest by the crusaders, just thought of it as a mere continuance of the same. Thx. 👍✌️
Minor error in the video: Alexios and David Komnenos were not the sons of Andronikos I, but were instead his grandsons.
TLDR: byzantium’s collapse was much more unpredictable than the ottomans’
Also I’ve always found the Byzantines very fascinating. Like I look at a map in like the 900s and they’re so tiny, confined to their small space in Anatolia and the balkans, and then a few decades or centuries later, they’ve become this massive empire spanning the entire Balkans and Anatolia, and then by the 1200s you see this complete collapse of the empire - Byzantium was really weird and cursed to die that slow death. People say how the ottomans fell so slowly but for me Byzantium even more, its borders would change so much and I could only imagine someone looking over this entire thing, not sure what the fate of the empire would be.
The ottomans were much more predictable, even if they made the reforms and all their failure to modernize and stand up to the Europeans led to their collapse - the Europeans had been slowly chipping away at the Ottoman Empire for so many years - hell, in 1878 Russia almost took Istanbul - and it was this predictable, weak collapse, despite the European efforts to maintain peace in the region their ultimate goal was to subjugate them, and the outbreak of ww1 allowed them to subjugate the entire Middle East.
(When I say Europeans I mostly mean Britain and France)
Eastern Rome, my good friend. The name "byzantine" is western european propaganda
@@mariasirona1622 it’s not, people just say it as something easy, the Byzantines called themselves Romans, Byzantine was a term given by historians to differentiate it from, y’know, ROME? ppl do be thinking everything is propaganda (and it’s easier to write Byzantine than eastern Rome that many times)
@@villagernewsletter3577 even if it isn't propaganda, it's still incorrect. It is seperated from the OG Roman Empire by the Eastern at the start. And correctness cares not about lazy writers. It's Eastern Roman Empire, likeit or not.
@@mariasirona1622 it’s not the eastern Roman Empire. Maybe it was during its early days when there was also a western Roman Empire, but as that fell and the eastern side became more and more Greek, although they called themselves Romans, it’s totally different and only Roman in history. These people had mostly Greek culture, language, and traditions. Plus without a western Roman Empire there’s no need to have an eastern Roman Empire
And tigerstar in this video also says Byzantine
@@villagernewsletter3577so what about Tigerstar saying byzantine? HE. IS ALSO. WRONG.
Trebizond, that country that was so hard to play as in Europa Universalis 3
Am I showing my age?
To the start, is too Greece!
You didn’t mention how the Bulgarian Czar killed the Latin Emperor and turned his skull into a cup
Tirant lo Blanch is awesome.
The Bulgarians also claimed the Byzantine Empire during this time, coming close multiple times to capturing Constantinople. The Bulgarian ruler titled himself as "Emperor of the Romans", or something along those lines. Plus, the Serbs did it to in the 14th century, though that's a different story.
I haven't seen the video, just saw the mini and came to give a like because of that 🤣
It’s time to duel!
With this sponsor, you can keep these Civ-Gi-Oh cards nice and safe!
The exodias thumbmail was very good !
Principality of Theodoro was one of the last rump states to hold on, falling in 1475
The Doge of Venice!? .....was he ever on a coin?
"Also known as the Byzantine empire" Not until AFTER 1453 was it called by that name and it was in a derogatory manner from the west Europe . Roman guys, it was called Roman Empire. I know that we use that term to differentiate its periods but we have to stop calling it by the wrong name. Thanks for this video and greetings from Greece
Very interesting that Nicaea would conquer Constantinople in a similar way the Ottomans would a few centuries later.
You really missed the opportunity to post this on May 29 for 570 years since.
The royalty free music kills me these days
And I'll see you guyyyyys next tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime.
You said on John the IV was blinding on Christmas. Orthodox or Catholic Christmas?
any link for the image used at 9:53?
Epirus, not " Epærus"😅
Polysyllables do not favour diphthongs.
The Yu GI Oh cards got me
Great video. there is a letter exchange between the Pope Gregory the 9th and Ioannes Vatatzes that is very telling. Someone should translate it in English and make a video about it
Meanwhile Bulgaria making their own Rome with blackjack and hookeers
ENrico dandolo died at 97?!?!?
Woah, Bonifacio supposedly loved almost a century in the 12th century?
The Empire of Epirus was actually initially centred in Epirus (but also included areas of modern Albania)
Please tell me some kind of historical trading card game is in the works. I don't have the money to buy it I just think it would be a cool concept.
Byzantine for ever❤
One thing is for sure:
The turks were not the continuation of the Romans.
Michael VIII Palaiologos was not the brother of John IV.
if it wasnt for the serbs, first with their "empire" and then with their constant betrayal on the side of the ottomans (ironic considering all the memes), and the backstabbing catalan company, the byzantine empire could have easily been resurgent
Bruhhhhh I just studied this for school 💀
Michael VIII was NOT John IV’s brother.
For being arguably the biggest backstabber in history, Venice brought it on itself. Drown now, noone will weep.
Paradox must add a feature to rename, reflag, and give the possibility of changing ideas, or more generally allow Byzantium to become 'the' Roman Empire once It captures Italy.
Here's a thought: Are modern greeks the same people as the eastern romans...
Majority would have Byzantine ancestry but the answer is probably more complicated since people have been mixing in the region for millennia.
Also Greeks in the Byzantine times would most likely identify as Roman rather than Greek.
@@SirFaceFone I just wanted to leave that thought here, because the "greek war of independance" could easy just as easly have been called "the roman war of independance" with nothing else having been changed about it. And we could be here talking about that time the eastern romans reaccerted their independance from the Turks.
Greeks obtained Roman citizenship with the edict of Caracalla (212AD), when Roman citizenship was given to all the free men of the empire . After that point the term "Roman" became a mere civic identity and was used by every ethnicity that was part of the empire as a political term, not as an ethnic term. During the byzantine period Greeks grandually took under their control the Roman empire and, since among the Roman citizens they were the ones that were ruling the empire and had become its centre, people started associating the term "Roman" with them. As a result the name "Roman" obtained a new definition during the medieval period and started meaning someone that was ethnically Greek. With this definition the word Ρωμιός/Roman is still used by Greeks today. We have three ethnonyms: Έλληνας/Hellenas (which is by far the most popular one) , Ρωμιός/Romios/Roman, Γραικός/Graikos. These three words are synonyms and mean "Greek" in the greek language. They are not three different identities. Also in order to avoid confusion we have kept the word Ρωμιός/Romios/Roman for ourselves and we use the word Ρωμαίος/Romaios/Roman for the ancient Romans.
So yes. Byzantines were the medieval Greeks (I'm talking about the core of the empire, obviously empires are multi-ethnic and there were other ethnicities in it), they had a Roman (political) identity and a Greek (ethnic) identity and modern Greeks are their descendants.
So if you're using the word "Roman" for the Greeks whether you will call it a Roman war of Independance or a Greek War of Independence it would mean the same thing. Because we're using the word "Roman" for ourselves only as synonymous to "Greek", not as a different identity separate from the greek one. If you use the word "Roman" and you mean the ancient romans then they have nothing to do with the greek revolution or with us. They are Italian legacy.
@@gilpaubelid3780 I love seeing the human brain trying to make sense of complicated, confusing (sometimes contradictory) things. Good Answer!
The short answer is yes.
POV: I live in 1200s America 🌞
I live in 1200s Istanbul 😩
wasn’t Trebizond also created by the kingdom of georgia?
I'm here for the Yugioh thumbnail
0:32 The Fourth Crusade began in 1202.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Crusade
Hats off to Byzantium, whose decline outlasted a lot of empires' entire existence.
it surely wasn't the same as in the times of augustus
I suspect he meant to say Justinian and Constantine (or another important emperor), rather than Justinian and Augustus?